Topic: Need XY Set Up (Schoeps)

[Charlie Miller]

I would like to start running my onstage Schoeps XY. I like the imaging when mixed with the board. I've been pointing the mics outside the drum kit (for Kimock) which works great but I'm ready for a change. What do I need to set up as XY?

[lsd2525]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.0

If there isn't already an XY mount for your mics, it can be designed

[rippleish20]

You use full full CMC6/capsules - correct? You might get this guy to 3D print a solution for you


I've been using 4v's (active setup) with this

https://www.shapeways.com/product/MPPBSUT26/ms-xy-schoeps-with-nbob-actives?optionId=60409239

he also has this for active setups

https://www.shapeways.com/product/YBDTYPF5A/x-y-clip-for-schoeps-w-active-cables?optionId=57107140

[Charlie Miller]

Yeah I'm running full bodies. Got rid of the actives years ago.
Thanks

[rippleish20]

Looks like he has one for full bodies

https://www.shapeways.com/product/RZ9JJSQUL/xy-schoeps-colettes

[Charlie Miller]

Looks like he has one for full bodies

https://www.shapeways.com/product/RZ9JJSQUL/xy-schoeps-colettes

Ordered!!! Thanks.

[Charlie Miller]

So I just cancelled my order. They sent me an email saying that it's made with a 3D printer and is not intended for use. It's for decorative purposes only.

[heathen]

So I just cancelled my order. They sent me an email saying that it's made with a 3D printer and is not intended for use. It's for decorative purposes only.

FWIW, my order confirmation of a different mount from the same seller said the same thing.  While it is made with a 3D printer, I suspect the "decorative use" language is just stock language to limit liability.  The mount I got feels very sturdy.

[rippleish20]

So I just cancelled my order. They sent me an email saying that it's made with a 3D printer and is not intended for use. It's for decorative purposes only.

That's quite strange - all his mounts are 3D printed and many of us own his mounts

[heathen]

Warning: Please note that the 3D printed products are intended for decorative purposes. They are not suited to be used as toys or to be given to underage children. The products should not come in contact with electricity and be kept away from heat. Our materials, except for 3D printed glazed ceramics, are not food safe.

That's what my confirmation email says.  I wouldn't let that put you off ordering, but you know your needs better than anyone.

[Charlie Miller]

I just can't risk something going wrong, mainly with a warning like that. I have a 3D printer here. Not that I know how to make one.

[rippleish20]

Charlie thats a generic disclaimer because the overall site sells all sorts of 3D printed items.  I own five of his 3D printed mounts and many others own them also...

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=183021.0

His email address is in a thread here somewhere and I believe he is a member. Let me see if I can his email

[rippleish20]

His name is Scott and he is a member. There is a lengthy thread about his mounts:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.0


If you aren't comfortable with the idea that's fine but these are quite strong. Most of the ones I own are for actives so they just need to support  the capsules but I also own one for telefunkens (ORTF) and its also very solid.

Here is his profile you could PM him

http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=21787

[Charlie Miller]

His name is Scott and he is a member. There is a lengthy thread about his mounts:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.0


If you aren't comfortable with the idea that's fine but these are quite strong. Most of the ones I own are for actives so they just need to support  the capsules but I also own one for telefunkens (ORTF) and its also very solid.

Here is his profile you could PM him

http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=21787

Thanks. Much appreciated.

[noahbickart]

Charlie:

I also have used his mounts for a long time. They're really good, and would trust them. Have no fear.

His name is Scott and he is a member. There is a lengthy thread about his mounts:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170480.0


If you aren't comfortable with the idea that's fine but these are quite strong. Most of the ones I own are for actives so they just need to support  the capsules but I also own one for telefunkens (ORTF) and its also very solid.

Here is his profile you could PM him

http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=21787

Thanks. Much appreciated.

[obaaron]

Got a few of these myself Charlie use them onstage at Winstons.quite a bit

[gormenghast]

Might as well buy the real deal then:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/446763-REG/Schoeps_UMS_20_UMS20_Universal_Stereo_Mounting.html

[yug du nord]

If size or cost is not an issue... 

Vark Bar/darktrain Bar/followinbob Bar (choose your maker)
Riser(s)
2 Rycote Invision shock mounts

Vark Bar:  https://id33157.securedata.net/varkaudio.com/merchantmanager/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=stereo+bar&mmsid=042804514c1057c40635f2e116ac9403&x=0&y=0

darktrain bars in two sizes:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=115017.0 
(I don't think that darktrain has made these in a while..  he made two sizes...  I don't run XY, but I prefer the larger size.)  (He supplied risers also)  (Put a ISO in the YS maybe.)

followinbob bar (aluminum) in two sizes:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=162285.0
followinbob bar (Vark style):  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164502.0
followinbob risers:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=163089.0

Rycote Invision INV-HG mkIII shock mounts:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/880280-REG/Rycote_041118_INV_8_Microphone_Suspension.html  This is B&H's site, but many vendors carry them.

I have not used any of the followinbob bars/risers...  but he makes quality stuff. 
I have used both Vark Bar and darktrain Bars/risers and they are fantastic.
I am not sure of the availability of any of these items..  but an ISO in the YS might help if needed.

or

Shure A27M:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8vnMBRDgARIsACm_BhKo3OuGjtsGt1AxcDBra4ZcqsoABntOpWxug9gi777l6WHBau9US7YaAoOeEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=68616  This is B&H's site, but many vendors carry this.

2 Schoeps A20 (or knock offs) shock mounts:  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8vnMBRDgARIsACm_BhL-45XEGHcozeuDXIjeyygOF46YIoNjkN4rBsze7ApsODplfq_DPT8aApnKEALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=386430 This is B&H's site, but many vendors carry them.

[yug du nord]

The Grace Design Spacebar is pretty dreamy too... 

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/spacebar/spacebar_stereo.html

[Charlie Miller]

The Schoeps bar is straight up sexy, as is that grace bar. I think I have the info needed. Thanks. I like the idea of having a bar that allows me to use the Schoeps shock mount.

[Charlie Miller]

Just bought the Shure A27M. Once again, thank you for all the responses. This place rocks. Always has. Always will.

[dactylus]

Charlie,

The 3D printed mounts from Shapeways are extremely sturdy and offer an accurate representation of the various mic configs offered (X/Y, DIN, DINa, ORTF, etc...).  The designer of these mounts, Scott Shepherd, is a longtime Schoeps user and he can produce anything for you that your heart desires.  I have mounts from Scott for Schoeps, Gefell, DPA and Milab microphones and they are perfect in every way.  I highly recommend Scott's product line of microphone mounts.

David

[Charlie Miller]

Charlie,

The 3D printed mounts from Shapeways are extremely sturdy and offer an accurate representation of the various mic configs offered (X/Y, DIN, DINa, ORTF, etc...).  The designer of these mounts, Scott Shepherd, is a longtime Schoeps user and he can produce anything for you that your heart desires.  I have mounts from Scott for Schoeps, Gefell, DPA and Milab microphones and they are perfect in every way.  I highly recommend Scott's product line of microphone mounts.

David

I plan on getting Scott's too. I like the idea of having the option to use my Schoeps shockmounts when needed.

[rocksuitcase]

Just bought the Shure A27M. Once again, thank you for all the responses. This place rocks. Always has. Always will.

Charlie, We own a Shure A27M. The thread inside allows you more flexibility than you might think. This is a high quality product; our only downside with it is weight in the bag (which isn't THAT heavy, but...). When we stopped running solely coincident we stopped carrying it in the bag.

[Perry]

Just bought the Shure A27M. Once again, thank you for all the responses. This place rocks. Always has. Always will.

Charlie, We own a Shure A27M. The thread inside allows you more flexibility than you might think. This is a high quality product; our only downside with it is weight in the bag (which isn't THAT heavy, but...). When we stopped running solely coincident we stopped carrying it in the bag.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. This is exactly why my A27M has never been used- I think the thing weighs almost as much as my stand (got it with a pair of KSM137's). I now have 4 of Scott's 3D-printed mounts and still haven't approached 1/8 of the A27M's weight. The 3D printed mounts are much more durable than I expected- you can ignore the "decorative" disclaimer.

The A27M is very well designed but I'm old-- bad knees, badder back. So keeping it as light as possible is important to me, YMWV.

[Gutbucket]

Shure A27M is great onstage.  The thing is totally bullet-proof.  You can take the center axle out and flip the center segments around for more mic clearance if you ever want to use bigger LD mics.  The only fidgety thing is getting the angle right via the combination of hinged mic mounts and rotating A27M center segments - but that allows for adjustment to whatever X/Y angle you want.   It's solid steel and seemingly weighs a ton however, making it rather top-heavy atop a tall stand, especially with heavy LD mics.  For that reason I only use it on-stage down low where the weight helps keep it anchored.

Haven't used Shapeways 3D-printed stuff, but those mounts are lightweight, simple and quite sturdy from everything I've seen of them.  Unlike the A27M, each mount is dedicated to a single setup.  So X/Y is always 90-degrees, not 110 or 120 or whatever unless you have another one for that dedicated angle, although I suppose you might be able to use the 90-degree X/Y full-body mic mount backwards for DIN.

[Charlie Miller]

Well I'll have both here this week. I'm working this. Will try them out then.

https://www.facebook.com/events/822060197952998/?ti=icl

FYI:
The box with the Shure mount is 2lbs.

[noahbickart]

Shure A27M is great onstage.  The thing is totally bullet-proof.  You can take the center axle out and flip the center segments around for more mic clearance if you ever want to use bigger LD mics.  The only fidgety thing is getting the angle right via the combination of hinged mic mounts and rotating A27M center segments - but that allows for adjustment to whatever X/Y angle you want.   It's solid steel and seemingly weighs a ton however, making it rather top-heavy atop a tall stand, especially with heavy LD mics.  For that reason I only use it on-stage down low where the weight helps keep it anchored.

Haven't used Shapeways 3D-printed stuff, but those mounts are lightweight, simple and quite sturdy from everything I've seen of them.  Unlike the A27M, each mount is dedicated to a single setup.  So X/Y is always 90-degrees, not 110 or 120 or whatever unless you have another one for that dedicated angle, although I suppose you might be able to use the 90-degree X/Y full-body mic mount backwards for DIN.

That's precisely why some of us use the mk4v and mk41v- In the Shapeways 3D mounts of all kinds, the spacing is fixed, but the angle is infinite.

Charlie- sell your mic bodies!! Buy nbob cables> naiant pfa's for less $$$$ and more flexibility. The mounting options alone make getting your microphones into the right spot in the right configuration.

[Charlie Miller]

Shure A27M is great onstage.  The thing is totally bullet-proof.  You can take the center axle out and flip the center segments around for more mic clearance if you ever want to use bigger LD mics.  The only fidgety thing is getting the angle right via the combination of hinged mic mounts and rotating A27M center segments - but that allows for adjustment to whatever X/Y angle you want.   It's solid steel and seemingly weighs a ton however, making it rather top-heavy atop a tall stand, especially with heavy LD mics.  For that reason I only use it on-stage down low where the weight helps keep it anchored.

Haven't used Shapeways 3D-printed stuff, but those mounts are lightweight, simple and quite sturdy from everything I've seen of them.  Unlike the A27M, each mount is dedicated to a single setup.  So X/Y is always 90-degrees, not 110 or 120 or whatever unless you have another one for that dedicated angle, although I suppose you might be able to use the 90-degree X/Y full-body mic mount backwards for DIN.

That's precisely why some of us use the mk4v and mk41v- In the Shapeways 3D mounts of all kinds, the spacing is fixed, but the angle is infinite.

Charlie- sell your mic bodies!! Buy nbob cables> naiant pfa's for less $$$$ and more flexibility. The mounting options alone make getting your microphones into the right spot in the right configuration.

I sold my actives years ago. I'm staying with full bodies since I'm able to do everything I need, plus I just bought a bunch of stuff for the full bodies.

[yug du nord]

As much as I dig (and support) all of the "local TS" gear makers and all of the gear that they produce...  I can't imagine any professional recording engineer trusting a "new-ish" piece of gear that is not manufactured by a professional source. 
A hobby is a hobby...  but a job is a job.
For the love of music, thankfully CM is a "taper" too!

[Charlie Miller]

As much as I dig (and support) all of the "local TS" gear makers and all of the gear that they produce...  I can't imagine any professional recording engineer trusting a "new-ish" piece of gear that is not manufactured by a professional source. 
A hobby is a hobby...  but a job is a job.
For the love of music, thankfully CM is a "taper" too!

I dunno man. I think the Shure mount I bought from B&H will be just fine.

[yug du nord]

^That's what I'm sayin.......  Shure has been around for decades.  Schoeps A20's have been around for decades.
3D printed mounts are pretty new and who knows the longevity of em at this point??
I'm not knockin the 3D mounts.  I'm just guessing that in the professional world they aren't proven yet. 
I'm slightly unsure of them and I'm just a hobby-tapin' yahoo.
I haven't tried em, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about since everyone on board here seems to love em...  and they do seem pretty cool. 
Anyways..  happy XY'n to ya!

[rippleish20]

^That's what I'm sayin.......  Shure has been around for decades.  Schoeps A20's have been around for decades.
3D printed mounts are pretty new and who knows the longevity of em at this point??
I'm not knockin the 3D mounts.  I'm just guessing that in the professional world they aren't proven yet. 
I'm slightly unsure of them and I'm just a hobby-tapin' yahoo.
I haven't tried em, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about since everyone on board here seems to love em...  and they do seem pretty cool. 
Anyways..  happy XY'n to ya!

You could make an argument in the other direction too, that 3D printing is the future. Scott could makes all sorts of mounts that would be impossible to come by without 3D printing. My only issue with them is that if I am unsure of what I want to use at a show (lets say you have no experience at a venue and don't know how to approach things until you get in), I have to potentially carry several different mounts...

[jbosco]

As much as I dig (and support) all of the "local TS" gear makers and all of the gear that they produce...  I can't imagine any professional recording engineer trusting a "new-ish" piece of gear that is not manufactured by a professional source. 
A hobby is a hobby...  but a job is a job.
For the love of music, thankfully CM is a "taper" too!

I bought three of the 3D clips for my KM 184s a while ago, NOS, DIN/XY and ORTF. Two are broken, I stored them in plastic tupperware containers in my bag and when I used them I was always very careful. Both the NOS and ORTF clips sagged from the weight of the mic eventually both broke. I still use my DIN/XY clip because it's very convenient, however I would not recommend them to a professional. Maybe they are stronger now because I really want them to work and I really like the idea, but I'd stick with the Shure if I were Charlie.

[Charlie Miller]

The Shure mount arrived. I don't see the weight being an issue I need to do some minor adjustments but it'll be fine.

[Perry]

The Shure mount arrived. I don't see the weight being an issue I need to do some minor adjustments but it'll be fine.

[Charlie Miller]

Can anyone recommend back up shockmounts for full body Schoeps?

[obaaron]

I use a20 knockoffs with oem cradles cost about 30/ea.

Ran my 4Vs XY for the first time onstage at Winstons on.Tues sounds real nice...

[Charlie Miller]

I use a20 knockoffs with oem cradles cost about 30/ea.

Ran my 4Vs XY for the first time onstage at Winstons on.Tues sounds real nice...

You got a link?

[noahbickart]

Can anyone recommend back up shockmounts for full body Schoeps?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVP_qsYkJUpHH5aOCtANbxfyRBsOVlhj8ZB7qkf1RgGJ8YJ_Bi6iJTgaAss5EALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=880280

[dactylus]

Can anyone recommend back up shockmounts for full body Schoeps?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVP_qsYkJUpHH5aOCtANbxfyRBsOVlhj8ZB7qkf1RgGJ8YJ_Bi6iJTgaAss5EALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=880280

^
I second this recommendation!

If the vertical post on the SRS XY bar is long enough you could combine that with a single one of the Rycote shockmounts referenced.

[dactylus]

^That's what I'm sayin.......  Shure has been around for decades.  Schoeps A20's have been around for decades.
3D printed mounts are pretty new and who knows the longevity of em at this point??
I'm not knockin the 3D mounts.  I'm just guessing that in the professional world they aren't proven yet. 
I'm slightly unsure of them and I'm just a hobby-tapin' yahoo.
I haven't tried em, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about since everyone on board here seems to love em...  and they do seem pretty cool. 
Anyways..  happy XY'n to ya!

You could make an argument in the other direction too, that 3D printing is the future. Scott could makes all sorts of mounts that would be impossible to come by without 3D printing. My only issue with them is that if I am unsure of what I want to use at a show (lets say you have no experience at a venue and don't know how to approach things until you get in), I have to potentially carry several different mounts...

^
The numerous 3D printed stereo bars that I've purchased from Scott are extremely rugged and although I haven't run over any of them with a dump truck to test their durability I would recommend them to any professional recordist in a heartbeat. 

[voltronic]

Can anyone recommend back up shockmounts for full body Schoeps?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVP_qsYkJUpHH5aOCtANbxfyRBsOVlhj8ZB7qkf1RgGJ8YJ_Bi6iJTgaAss5EALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=880280

^
I second this recommendation!

If the vertical post on the SRS XY bar is long enough you could combine that with a single one of the Rycote shockmounts referenced.

Thirded!  I don't know anyone who has tried a Rycote INV and gone back to anything else.  The lyres are indestructible and the performance is so much better than the A20 or any other elastic shocks.  I used to think the Rycotes were expensive until I used them.  (They're still way cheaper than the Schoeps mounts though.)

[Charlie Miller]

I received the XY mount today. It's very nicely made. Perfect fit for the mics, my only concern is the mount isn't threaded making it impossible to put on my stand. Am I missing something?

[capnhook]

I received the XY mount today. It's very nicely made. Perfect fit for the mics, my only concern is the mount isn't threaded making it impossible to put on my stand. Am I missing something?

Yes, Charlie...yer missing the threads...

[yug du nord]

I received the XY mount today. It's very nicely made. Perfect fit for the mics, my only concern is the mount isn't threaded making it impossible to put on my stand. Am I missing something?

Do yourself a favor and pick up the Rycote Invision mount that is linked above. 
Or, it should fit nicely in your A20.
Two mikes..  one shock mount. 

[dactylus]

I received the XY mount today. It's very nicely made. Perfect fit for the mics, my only concern is the mount isn't threaded making it impossible to put on my stand. Am I missing something?

If the vertical post on the SRS XY bar is long enough you could combine that with a single one of the Rycote shockmounts referenced.  The orientation of the Rycote shockmount is adjustable via the knob on the side of the mount.  That is what I was referring to in my earlier post.  I have used the Rycote mount in conjunction with several of my SRS stereo bars and it works great!

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=Cj0KCQjw557NBRC9ARIsAHJvVVP_qsYkJUpHH5aOCtANbxfyRBsOVlhj8ZB7qkf1RgGJ8YJ_Bi6iJTgaAss5EALw_wcB&is=REG&m=Y&sku=880280

[Charlie Miller]

Thanks for the info. The Shure mount worked great, as you would expect. I was not aware that the 3D printed one wasn't threaded, after all, everything thing else IS :-)

Just sayin'

Thanks

[noahbickart]

Thanks for the info. The Shure mount worked great, as you would expect. I was not aware that the 3D printed one wasn't threaded, after all, everything thing else IS :-)

Just sayin'

Thanks

Yes. They are designed to be used in conjunction with a shockmount, which is threaded.

[Charlie Miller]

Thanks for the info. The Shure mount worked great, as you would expect. I was not aware that the 3D printed one wasn't threaded, after all, everything thing else IS :-)

Just sayin'

Thanks

Yes. They are designed to be used in conjunction with a shockmount, which is threaded.

Wish I had known this before hand, but I guess it makes sense.

[Charlie Miller]

So I pulled my head out of my ass and used the 3D moth with my Schoeps mount. Works great. Feels sturdy. I generally have my fragile stuff in road cases so I should be ok.

Thanks to everyone for their help.