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Author Topic: New Zoom H6  (Read 61200 times)

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Offline fguidry

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #120 on: October 24, 2013, 01:55:40 PM »
Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.

I hooked up a ribbon mic, a Beyer M260 re-ribboned with an RCA ribbon. This is a very low sensitivity mic. Go to the update at the end of the article for these clips: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/

In my opinion, the H6 does the job in fine fashion.

Fran

Offline Amir

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #121 on: October 24, 2013, 02:12:17 PM »
Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.

I hooked up a ribbon mic, a Beyer M260 re-ribboned with an RCA ribbon. This is a very low sensitivity mic. Go to the update at the end of the article for these clips: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/

In my opinion, the H6 does the job in fine fashion.

Fran
Thanks, Fran, for the test -- I'm grabbing the clips. Of course, according to RecordingHacks, the M260 isn't as low-sensitive as the Shure SM7B. It's a 1.2 mV mic http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/beyerdynamic/M-260 whereas the Shure SM7b is a 1.12 mV one -- http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Shure/SM7B . Of course, they are quite close and that's enough to validate your test. And while we're at it, the Beyerdynamic M58 is a little on the higher end of sensitivity as it's a 1.3 mV mic -- http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/beyerdynamic/M-58

Offline Amir

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #122 on: October 28, 2013, 02:55:03 AM »
Has someone managed to test the H6 with dynamic mics which require a lot of gain? I mean the likes of Beyerdynamic M58 and Shure SM7B. If so, is the audio usable for high-quality broadcasts? Also, in case someone has gone through such a test, any chance of uploading the audio somewhere? I'd very much like to see how the H6 preamps treat such dynamic microphones.

I hooked up a ribbon mic, a Beyer M260 re-ribboned with an RCA ribbon. This is a very low sensitivity mic. Go to the update at the end of the article for these clips: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/08/28/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx/

In my opinion, the H6 does the job in fine fashion.

Fran

Fran, it seems to me that the clip recorded using the M260 and the H6 is noisier than what I can use on high-quality broadcasts. At least that's what I instantly noticed when listening to it via headphones. That is, according to your recording, if one uses something like the Beyerdynamic M58 (which is very similar to the M260 in terms of gain) in a quiet interview setting, the H6 hiss will be much more noticeable than is typically tolerated by producers and radio stations. To make sure if this is actually the case, would you please record 2 audio samples using your M260 and the H6? The H6 gain can be set to 6/7 for one sample and to 9 for the second sample. I just want to see if the same hiss is present in recordings when the H6 is used to capture audio from low-gain dynamic mics.

Offline fguidry

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2013, 09:35:59 PM »
What you need to understand about those clips is that the test tone was measuring -50 dB on a slow C weighted scale. It was extremely quiet, in other words. So if you play back that tone at normal conversational volume, you have the levels cranked a lot more than a normal session.

If I record a speaking voice or an acoustic guitar with the gain all the way up on both the RME and the H6, and play them back at normal volume levels, I can't hear a difference between them.

One thing further, with a low output mic I don't think anyone would find lower gain settings useful unless the source is extremely loud. When I crank the RME and the H6 to their maximum and record my acoustic guitar, they're still capturing a fairly low level that requires a bit of a boost to reach normal volumes.

Fran

Offline Amir

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2013, 01:01:54 AM »
What you need to understand about those clips is that the test tone was measuring -50 dB on a slow C weighted scale. It was extremely quiet, in other words. So if you play back that tone at normal conversational volume, you have the levels cranked a lot more than a normal session.

If I record a speaking voice or an acoustic guitar with the gain all the way up on both the RME and the H6, and play them back at normal volume levels, I can't hear a difference between them.

One thing further, with a low output mic I don't think anyone would find lower gain settings useful unless the source is extremely loud. When I crank the RME and the H6 to their maximum and record my acoustic guitar, they're still capturing a fairly low level that requires a bit of a boost to reach normal volumes.

Fran

Fran, I'd still be happy to hear your speech/performance recordings with the H6 and the Beyerdynamic mic if you can handle it. The reason I'm asking is that I use the USBPre2 here a lot with low-output dynamic mics and don't get that hiss even when recording silence. On the other hand, I get the very exact hiss with Olympus LS-100 whose preamps are similar to those of the H6. The LS-100's preamps are great for condensers and aren't indeed bad for low-output dynamics either, but the USBPre 2 easily beats both. I'm trying to determine if the H6 meets the requirements of a high-quality broadcast-ready recorder with low-output dynamic mics or getting something like, say, the upcoming Sony PCM-D100 and combining it with the USBPre 2 (via Sony's digital input) would be the way to go.

Offline John Willett

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2013, 05:51:15 AM »
There is a review of the H6 in the latest (November 2013) issue of Sound On Sound.

It's HERE

You can buy the PDF for £0.99 HERE if you don't have a subscription.

Offline Amir

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2013, 03:58:35 PM »
There is a review of the H6 in the latest (November 2013) issue of Sound On Sound.

It's HERE

You can buy the PDF for £0.99 HERE if you don't have a subscription.

Thanks for mentioning it here. I just read it and the review is, IMO, a very broad overview. Given the nature of the magazine and the fact that people are charged to gain access to the articles, I was expecting a more comprehensive review -- even some sort of recording comparison with its competitors. Also, having heard lots of M/S recordings created by the Zoom H6, I can't agree with the following statement:
............
The M/S array’s overall sound is similar to that of the X/Y, both in terms of quality and dynamic range, although, by its very nature, it is a little less tight and more expansive, and seems to handle lower frequencies more comfortably.
............
Nowhere in the article is it mentioned that the M/S mic is noticeably noisy -- quite noisier than the X/Y mic.

Offline fguidry

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #127 on: October 31, 2013, 04:59:00 PM »
OK, a set of samples with the ENAK re-ribbon Beyer M260 into the H6 and RME UFX, with test tone, narration, room tone, and solo acoustic guitar: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/10/31/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx-ribbon-mic-samples/

Samples are mono 44.1/16 PCM, they won't stream well and should be downloaded for comparison.

When I crank the gain on these samples I definitely hear more noise from the H6, just as I would expect from comparing the EIN figures.

Fran

Offline Amir

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2013, 06:16:44 PM »
OK, a set of samples with the ENAK re-ribbon Beyer M260 into the H6 and RME UFX, with test tone, narration, room tone, and solo acoustic guitar: http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2013/10/31/zoom-h6-vs-rme-ufx-ribbon-mic-samples/

Samples are mono 44.1/16 PCM, they won't stream well and should be downloaded for comparison.

When I crank the gain on these samples I definitely hear more noise from the H6, just as I would expect from comparing the EIN figures.

Fran

Fran, thanks for taking the time to prepare these interesting samples.
As you said, the H6 sample is noisier and listening to them via headphones instantly reveals that without the need to crank up the volume. The RME sample is pleasantly quieter IMO especially when comparing them in the "speech" segment and the "silence" section. Just one question remains: if you turn down the gain a bit, would it severely affect the recording produced by the H6? I mean would it badly decrease the volume of the recorded audio? At any rate, I think:
1. The H6 is a great recorder with great preamps, but it's not fair to expect it to perform like a $850 or $2000 recorder.
2. If one's goal is to use dynamic mics with the H6 for high-quality interviews (especially in quiet settings), low-output ones (such as the Shure SM7B, ElectroVoice RE20, RE635A and Beyerdynamic M58) should preferably be avoided. Mics like ElectroVoice RE50N/d, RE27, RE320, AKG D230, Beyerdynamic M59 and Beyerdynamic M99 should perform better, though.

Offline Xonic

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #129 on: December 01, 2013, 03:55:41 AM »
Guys, full length audio review of the zoom H6 that I did when the unit came out.
tests the internal XY, the MS mic and i've compared it with the LS-100 and the Zoom H4n. Few clips of me walking about on it, discussing the different audio interface drivers as well.

Be aware, mine shipped with a broken pre-amp on one of the channels, but the rest sounds reasonably good. I would say personally that the preamps for the price are fairly quiet. If you want something quieter, you probably need a tascam or the sound devices Mixpre.

REview here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35366916/h6_review.mp3

Offline Amir

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #130 on: January 07, 2014, 04:01:55 AM »
Guys, full length audio review of the zoom H6 that I did when the unit came out.
tests the internal XY, the MS mic and i've compared it with the LS-100 and the Zoom H4n. Few clips of me walking about on it, discussing the different audio interface drivers as well.

Be aware, mine shipped with a broken pre-amp on one of the channels, but the rest sounds reasonably good. I would say personally that the preamps for the price are fairly quiet. If you want something quieter, you probably need a tascam or the sound devices Mixpre.

REview here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35366916/h6_review.mp3

Thanks, Zonic, for the brilliant podcast -- I really enjoyed it.
As someone who owns a few dynamic mics -- namely the Beyerdynamic M58 and M99, I should add that the H6 brings nothing to the table that the LS-100 can't offer. That is, with both mics the H6 is almost as noisy as the LS-100. Having tested the H6 for a few days, I decided that the H6 isn't my cup of tea given the fact that I didn't need more than 2 channels and that its preamps are quite similar to those of the LS-100 with mid-to-low-output dynamics. Now if it had been my first purchase of that sort, I probably would have selected the H6 -- the H6 also has noticeably quieter internal mics compared with those of the LS-100.
It's worth mentioning that Neal Ewers has recorded a fantastic H6 podcast which can be found on BlindCoolTech. He also likes the H6 for its multi-channel capabilities and quieter internal XY mics. I myself want to go the Sony PCM-D100 route to have it combined with my Sound Devices USBPre2 which offers superior preamps compared with the LS-100 and the H4N/H6. That way I can also take advantage of the D100's superior internal mics where applicable.

Offline pianorecorder

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #131 on: March 06, 2014, 01:08:59 AM »
Put your wallets away.  Seems like there's no phantom power on board.  Or if there is, there's no mention of it and no physical switches.  Would have to be a menu option if present.

There is no phantom power if you use a TRS plug instead of XLR plug on channels 1 to 4 on the Zoom H6.   Yes, channels 5 and 6 have no phantom power even with XLR.  So maybe that is what you were experiencing.  There seems to be nothing explicit about the lack of TRS phantom power in the manual.

My M-Audio Microtrack II does support phantom power on TRS, and I have been using it for years without problems.  Apparently many recorders don't do this for fear of shorting the connection while plugging or unplugging the TRS connector.   Usually the phantom power is current limited so a short would not hurt, but you can simply turn things off while making connections, if in doubt.  If some equipment down the line gets a pop, that might happen.  However, even the inputs should have diodes to protect from static electricity zaps, so a momentary 48 volt stored charge from the microphone should not hurt.   So, I am not sure why there is so much paranoia about this.

Offline Scooter123

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Re: New Zoom H6
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2014, 10:57:24 PM »
I had an opportunity to give this unit a half dozen field tests for shows and during the shows, made changes to the settings to understand the machine better.  I can now give a report.

What I Like:

--Full Size VU Meters for All Channels.  Unlike the Tascam DR-2D, the Zoom H6 shows every channel in the screen.  VUs are not terribly accurate.
--Fully Functioning 6 Channel Unit.  I got the optional XLR Head which gives more precise volume metering than the X-Y Head with the TRS input, and is slightly smaller. 
--Easy to Operate.  Turn it on, "arm" the channels, and press record is all you really have to do.  You can adjust the gain on the fly if you want.  This is not a complicated unit, so if you don't like to read manuals, this machine will be perfect for you.
--Analog Style Gain Knobs.  No gain switch like other machines, this one has actual gain knobs.
--Gator Box Makes a Custom Box for the Unit.  Gator Box makes a dedicated case for the Zoom H6 which holds the unit, both heads, batteries, SD Cards, the Manual, the optional XLR head, and a pile of cables.  Its about twice the size of the stock case, but the stock case will not accommodate the extra head and cables. 
--Stereo Setting.  Two of the channels can be married together to make a stereo recording.  Perfect for an audience capture. 
--Most Functions are on One Side.  Other than the gain knobs, the power, hold, and headphone plug are all on the same side, which make using the thing, in the dark or inside a bag, fairly straightforward. 
--Battery Life is About 6 Hours, Enough for Any Show. 

What I Dislike

--Size.  This is a bit of a beast.  I've stealthed this unit, but not in a pocket.  You'll need a bag, fanny pack, or a large cargo pocket to operate. 
--Weight.  This unit is heavy. 
--XLR Inputs.  This really adds to the bulk, because you'll need to have some one make up cables for you which are right angle XLR or quarter inch phono plugs.  Would have preferred TRS inputs.
--No Line Inputs.  This is a PITA.  Personally, I think the preamps are crap, so I would really like to bypass them, but you can't. 
--Hot Preamps.  The preamps really boost the signal.  I have no way of measuring it but if the Pad Switch is any indicator, the unit boosts the gain by at least 20-30 db.  So without the Pads on, I was between 1-2 on the gain knobs, and the slightest movement of them boosted the gain considerably. 
--Use the Pad Switch.  As a consequence for most of my stuff, I had to use the -20db Pad Switches and at that point, the volume setting on the unit, using Schoeps > NBox was between 5-7.  7 was pretty hot and 5 was awfully low.  But its somewhere in there.  For wireless feeds, no pad is necessary, for soundboards, I which are usually pretty hot, I would want to use the pad.
--Improper Volume Settings Made Weird Recordings.  I had to try a number of settings before the Schoeps with an NBox sounded decent, and many of the settings resulted in a muffled and distant sounding tape. 
--VUs Are Not Terribly Accurate.  When I was recording and the VUs said -12db without the pad switch, it was really more like -16, which threw me off.  With the Pad Switch engaged, the VUs are a little better, but the unit likes to clip, so -6 is about as hot as I would go.
--No Digital in or Out. 
--Hold Switch Does Not Lock Volumes.  Bring some tape for the gain knobs.  Given the fact that they are super sensitive, and the slightest movement of them causes huge jumps in volume, perhaps its a good thing the hold switch does not lock those knobs.  I don't know, you be the judge there. 

Best Application and Use for Unit

This would be a nice unit to use to capture a stereo audience recording plus wireless or soundboard feeds, and you don't have to bring in two recorders, nor time align the files.  If you are just making audience tapes, pass on this one and go for a Sony M-10, unless you like the option of making multi-channels later.   
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 10:59:12 PM by Scooter123 »
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

 

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