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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: creekfreak on March 07, 2003, 06:52:25 PM

Title: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on March 07, 2003, 06:52:25 PM
Due to a very generous gift certifcate I got to Muscianfriend.com and the nice 6 months interest free payments on their credit that they offer I decided to score a V3 (about the only thing they had that interested me), 6 months to pay off the $500 balance is cake.

So I will have both the V3 and the mini-me, and I will be taping two shows in March to do some comp tapes for everyone.

First show will be on 3/21, plan to run one deck straight from the V3 and another deck running V3 analog out to the mini-me line in. This will give us a nice look at the difference in A/D converters between the 2, a lot of people have been wanting this and I have seen few people do it.

The second show I will be doing on 3/28, and I will run one set with the V3 and the second with just the mini-me to give a mini-me, V3 stand alone comp tape.

Will have these available for anyone that is interested in April, probably use the www.rochestergroove.com web site to distribute since they have such phat bandwidth.

I will be back in touch
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: jlykos on March 07, 2003, 07:57:42 PM
That would be awesome!  I have seen lots of comp tapes being offered with mics > V3 versus mics > V3 > MiniMe, but none with mics > V3 against mics > MiniMe.  I would love to hear on a comp tape how each one does as a stand-alone unit.  Everybody is trying to isolate the A/D converters in each unit which is fine, but I have the feeling that most people use them as stand-alones.
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on March 07, 2003, 08:22:29 PM
Cool, I figured I would play with all the variations, got to split the mic signal so I can tape the same set with both as a standalone
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: hippies on March 07, 2003, 08:41:10 PM
That would be awesome!  I have seen lots of comp tapes being offered with mics > V3 versus mics > V3 > MiniMe, but none with mics > V3 against mics > MiniMe.  I would love to hear on a comp tape how each one does as a stand-alone unit.  Everybody is trying to isolate the A/D converters in each unit which is fine, but I have the feeling that most people use them as stand-alones.

my feelings exactly, Jamie, and i don't know WHY this is the case?  regardless if you run one of these boxes as a standalone, (i don't, i run MP-2 in front of my Mme), i feel the best way to compare these units is to run them head to head w/ like mics.  not 'analog out from the V3 to a Mme'.  

i would be more than happy to offer up my Mme/ 140s to someone interested in comparing like mics against the V3.  my .02...

~S
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on March 07, 2003, 09:49:56 PM
I think comparing them on all levels is a good thing. I am curious which A/D is better, I am curious which one is a better stand alone. Personally, if there is one thing I am learning about taping, is that different gear works best in different situations.
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: hippies on March 07, 2003, 10:34:25 PM
true, but as Jamie says, the A/D comparison has been done to death!...
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on March 07, 2003, 11:31:11 PM
maybe for everyone else, but not me!!! ;D

I have a feeling the my view will fall in the realm that both are good and that each one can be used for different environments to get the best sound

My experience with the mini-me is that if you want a nice warm sound and a little more room rejection, use the mini-me.

If you are in a really good acoustic environment and want that nice transparent sound, use the V3, and sometimes when the fancy strikes me and I have room, run both ;D
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: schoeps t00bes on March 08, 2003, 06:09:47 AM
i thought the V3 did a GREAT job at reflecting some of the bad acoustics in the shows i taped.  from what i have heard of the MME i am not convinced it is better in this realm.  
dave
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on March 08, 2003, 10:58:45 AM
well, those are the things I want to find out  8)
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: schoeps t00bes on March 08, 2003, 11:25:37 AM
definitely!!!!!   ;D
have fun,
dave
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: scb on March 09, 2003, 01:23:43 PM
>>
my feelings exactly, Jamie, and i don't know WHY this is the case?  regardless if you run one of these boxes as a standalone, (i don't, i run MP-2 in front of my Mme), i feel the best way to compare these units is to run them head to head w/ like mics.  not 'analog out from the V3 to a Mme'.  <<

i don't have another set of 4022s....

i may try the y cable from mics to both units, with pnahtom on both (like marc did) but i haven't yet....
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: schoeps t00bes on March 09, 2003, 01:42:07 PM
damn scott, i thought you ran around with two pairs.....  :P
the tubes should be arriving to you anyday!!!!!!!!!!
dave
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: scb on March 09, 2003, 04:54:38 PM
sweet
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: Marc Nutter on March 13, 2003, 09:43:58 AM
We did a comparison of V3/Mini Me as standalone units by using MBHO 603's with a Y-Cable to each unit and each unit to its own recorder.  

50 or more copies went out via bit torrent download from our site just a few weeks ago.

I believe this is the type of comparison you are looking for.

If interested, just post a request for it in our forum.  www.sonicsense.com/forum.htm or ask for one around here.  I'm sure someone has it to share.

Happy Recording,

Marc
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: Jason Brantley on March 13, 2003, 12:17:42 PM
Here's the .txt file that accompanies the Comparison we did.  If anyone still needs this contact me to make arrangements.

JB (jason@sonicsense)


Comparison 1:

Opening act "Global Funk Council"

Direct Comparison of the MiniMe and V3 as standalone units at 24bit/48kHz

One set of Microphones was used (MBHO603/KA200).  The signal from these mics was split using a simple XLR splitter on each channel--one feed to the Apogee MiniMe and one to the Grace Lunatec V3 (Both units with phantom power applied).

The Apogee MiniMe was hooked up to one Sony Picturebook via USB using a PCMCIA USB 2.0 cardbus.  (24/48)

The Lunatec V3 was hooked up to a separate Sony Picturebook via SPDIF out to the Nuendo Multiset/PCMCIA Card.  (24/48)

*******************************************************************

Comparison 2:

Headliner "Oteil and the Peacemakers"

Comparison of just the Analog to Digital converters (MiniMe and V3) with their respective word length reduction algorithms (UV22 and ANSR) at 16bit/48kHz

Same mics and cables as comparison 1.  In this case the V3 was used as the pre-amp for both rigs.  

The SPDIF out of the V3 went to the Multiset/PCMCIA card of one of the Picturebooks.  

A short pair of XLR cables went from the Analog out of the V3 to the Analog Input of the MiniMe (which was calibrated to match sensitivity of the V3 ADC).  The USB out of the MiniMe went to the other computer as described in comparison 1.

*********************************************************************

Each set and recording has its own .txt file to explain the source lineage.  If you have questions feel free to drop us a line.

Marc Nutter (nutter@sonicsense.com)
Jason Brantley (jason@sonicsense.com)
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: JeffK on March 13, 2003, 01:25:56 PM
I think we're gonna try and do this same type of comparison soon as well.  Possibly for Kimock running onstage with Schoeps 4V's or 21's > splitter > V3 + MME.
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: grider on May 01, 2005, 02:48:35 PM
>>
my feelings exactly, Jamie, and i don't know WHY this is the case?  regardless if you run one of these boxes as a standalone, (i don't, i run MP-2 in front of my Mme), i feel the best way to compare these units is to run them head to head w/ like mics.  not 'analog out from the V3 to a Mme'.  <<

i don't have another set of 4022s....

i may try the y cable from mics to both units, with pnahtom on both (like marc did) but i haven't yet....

well I think it was Brian Skalinder that suggested you can buy XLR cable splitters, so you can run one set of mics but split the signal for each channel into two feeds, so with this cable splitter you could run one set of mics but divide the signals in two, and run one set of signals (for the right and left channels) into the V3 and one set of signals into the MiniMe, and make two separate recordings from the same set of mics, and do so simultaneously, that would be a true comparison indeed
Title: Re: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: Chuck on May 01, 2005, 06:08:29 PM
Anyone have a link to these comparisons or a better one?

Can't seem to find them.  Thanks!


I'd like to hear a true comparison like this also.
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: JAH on May 02, 2005, 04:24:31 PM
We did a comparison of V3/Mini Me as standalone units by using MBHO 603's with a Y-Cable to each unit and each unit to its own recorder.  
The Y cable is the way to go...I built mine for B-a-roo 2 years ago when I did V3/MMe using AKG 414's.....Also have done the V3>mme w/ digital outs on both for some Dead using 140's.
In all cases we more than 4 of us preferred the MME over the V3 (let the healing begin ;-) )...most folks here preferr the V3...it's all good.  I think the MMe allows the signal to breath.  But man I hate their footprint.
Have fun w/ yours...if you need a y cable, Oade sell 'em. ( I have since taken mine apart, else I'd loan mine to ya).

peace
jah
Title: Re:V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: Chuck on May 02, 2005, 04:57:22 PM
In all cases we more than 4 of us preferred the MME over the V3

This is what I'd expect to find...
Title: Re: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on May 02, 2005, 05:55:05 PM
I think what they meant to say is that 4 out of 5 people preferred the mini-me for making smoke over the V3 ;D
Title: Re: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: JAH on May 03, 2005, 01:22:23 PM
I think what they meant to say is that 4 out of 5 people preferred the mini-me for making smoke over the V3 ;D
NOT EVEN ;-)
 as a owner of a mme did you ever smoke yours?  ;-)  not me nor my buddy..although I did see one go up in smoke due to a bad power in plug that was not an apogee approve plug.
The mme gets a bad rap but I bought mine used...added springs, from apogee, to tighten up the gain knobs and replaced the spdif jack as it is a poor piece....the only bitch I have about the mme is the footprint and the line in gain adjustments...definately like the sound over the V3 (imho)...not much I can do about the footprint but I'm searching for a knob that will slide over the pot trims...then I'll be a happy man.
Title: Re: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: marc0789 on May 03, 2005, 02:30:22 PM
what jah said. If I had to choose, I'd pick the mme. however, I find that the low end is a bit loose, and overall the soundstage is a little filmy, for lack of a better term. will work in a pinch, but I'd much prefer pre of your choice other than mp-2>mme. and I exclude the mp-2 only because it sounds so much like the mme pre, imo.

however, imo the v3 a/d is so piss poor that it takes a crap on the v2 legacy. To my ears, a v3 tape sounds nothing like a v2>1k tape, and to me, that's the gold standard that Grace would have to live up to to make the v3 worthwhile, and just didn't happen.

Title: Re: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: creekfreak on May 03, 2005, 03:41:52 PM
I think what they meant to say is that 4 out of 5 people preferred the mini-me for making smoke over the V3 ;D
NOT EVEN ;-)
 as a owner of a mme did you ever smoke yours?  ;-)  not me nor my buddy..although I did see one go up in smoke due to a bad power in plug that was not an apogee approve plug.
The mme gets a bad rap but I bought mine used...added springs, from apogee, to tighten up the gain knobs and replaced the spdif jack as it is a poor piece....the only bitch I have about the mme is the footprint and the line in gain adjustments...definately like the sound over the V3 (imho)...not much I can do about the footprint but I'm searching for a knob that will slide over the pot trims...then I'll be a happy man.
hehe, I ran the mini-me for a little while and I think which unit is better is strictly a function of the mics you use and the ears you have, I did have to send mine back for stripped screws which pissed me off and I find the over contruction of the unit to be ass, but I will say it was a champ at creating a killer 3d soundstage, but I didn't much care of the sound of the schoeps with it...though I wouldn't mind trying one with my TL's. Overall I have no issue with the sound of a V3 and prefer it with my mk41's over the mini-me. To each his own, I say use what you like
Title: Re: V3 vs. Mini-me comparisons
Post by: JAH on May 03, 2005, 04:50:01 PM
what jah said. If I had to choose, I'd pick the mme. however, I find that the low end is a bit loose, and overall the soundstage is a little filmy, for lack of a better term.

yup...that's why I have the 148  ;D

hehe, I ran the mini-me for a little while and I think which unit is better is strictly a function of the mics you use and the ears you have, ....To each his own, I say use what you like

I ran AKG 414's, KM140's, mk41's and 480's  and totally agree on your last sentence ;D  only speaking from my experiences.

peace
jah