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Gear / Technical Help => Playback Forum => Topic started by: DaryanLenz on June 12, 2003, 02:08:14 PM
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Anyone got a good link or reccomendations on placing speakers in a room? Also, what is toeing-in?
Daryan
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D....
the basic rule of thumb
- space speakers about 60% the distance that your head will be from them.
for example, if your listening chair is 10' away then your speakers should be 6' apart. This isn't a solid rule, but a good place to start.
It helps to have two people. one to move the speakers while you sit there and listen.
step one:
have person space speakers until you get a "whole in the middle", once you notice that, you've gone too far. back them up until that goes away.
move speakers away from back/side walls until you get the desired amount of bass (the closer to the walls, the more bass reflection).
"toeing in" is simply tilting the speakers inward (so they are not facing straigh ahead).
I found that those B&W's sounded awesome spaced about 5' apart and toed in about 5". what you do is measure the distance to each front corner. move the inside corner back 5". ie: 20" on the outside corner and 15" on the inside. do it for each speaker so they are the same distance from the wall. Again, it helps if someone else does it while you listen. You'll know when they are aligned just right.
try them facing straight at you first before toeing them in so that you can hear the difference. not all speakers need to be angled like this. it depends on a lot of acoustic factors in the room, but you'll find that the stereo image snaps into focus when you do it.
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Nick, where did you hear this 60% rule?? I've always heard the speakers should be as far apart as you are from them following the triangle rule?? At least this is how they have them setup in most rooms I've auditioned in.
SC
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that 60% rule i've read in a few places. my maggnepan manual suggests this as the default starting place for any speaker.
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I'm still playing with the positioning of my B&W's. It takes a while but when you get it right you'll appreciate the effort. Here's another tip from Darrin Sacks that he recieved from Doug Oade...
"I've been running b&w speakers (the same
pair) since '87. I have no interest in upgrading them. The one suggestion I have (which I got from Doug) is to play static/white noise through the speakers and tweak their positioning until, when sitting in the "sweet spot" you hear the white noise eminating from a point source between the speakers -- this will do wonders for their imaging."
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isn't there something called pink noise that you can generate in wavelab or something that is used to place the speakers? i know that doug oade recommended this on his forum. anyone know what I'm referring to? thanks.
-damon
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It is on the Stereophile test CD, I did this once my Tylers were in position & it is pretty wild. If I move my head ever so slightly I can hear a different tone from the white or pink noise.
Speaker placement can be an absolute bitch but once it's done you can have better imaging than a real show. Anyone else ever notice you don't get real good imaging at most Rock & Roll shows?
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depends
I've heard both awesome imaging and crap imaging from one night to the next up here at the state theatre in Portland. I think it depends on the band, FOH dude , venue....etc.
puffin that big fatty before the show helps sometimes too....or so i'm told.
:)
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oh....
and I'm not talking about running Carl up and down the parking garage stairs.
D'oh!
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or am I ?
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Hey, I'm 250 lbs of chisled taping machine! I'm not fat, I'm just big boned.
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As a fellow big boned individual I resemble that remark ;) Chisled like rock... a nice round rock.
http://www.decdun.fsnet.co.uk/listeningroometc.html.
Check out "visual ears" this looks pretty neat!!
http://www.kbacoustics.com/visualears/
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Looking for a killer time waster? Try this link:
http://www.cara.de/ENU/index.html
Go to "service" and then find CARA quick... I spent like 3 hours one night messing with it, and optimizing my setup. For my listening spot, I was only about 2" off on one side, but moving that last 2" somewhat smoothed out a little response dip I had. I had such a good experience I'm planning on buying the full version.
One word of advice: bookmark that link..! I just spent 20 minutes trying to find it :)
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In response to pink noise. I have never used that to align speakers. Pink noise is a signal which is perfectly flat across a large frequency range (20hz-22khz or something like that). This is used to EQ a listening environment. To effectively do this you need to play the pink noise (generally from a PNG that you put into your system, not a CD) thru the entire system and then have a seperate system with a microphone placed in the center of the environment (or whever people will be listening) and that mic is wired up with a Real-Time Analyzer. You play the pink noise thru and then are able to EQ your system by looking at the RTA. There are automated systems made that do this so all you need to do is plug everything in, I only have experience doing it manually. I would be glad to answer additional questions about it for you.
Rather than listening to pink noise I would suggest a good music recording when placing your speakers. If your setting up a stereo system make sure the music is recorded in stereo (and isn't mono duped) or if your setting up surround sound make sure the recording is made in surround sound. Pink noise is rather unpleasant to listen to and won't really help you place your speakers.
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Welcome Phil!
+T
-Kevin
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love that pro-audio experience.
jr
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One important factor that's been left out of this discussion is the distance the speakers stand from the wall. Too close to the wall, and your going to muddy up your low end alot, especially if you have rear-ported speakers. This is something you need to experiment with - some speakers have great balance just inches from the wall, while others need, literally, several feet of space to sound their best.
-Dave
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Good point, Dave! My Maggies need to be at least a couple feet off the back wall to sound best.