Topic: rec me a basic 4-channel recorder

[jerryfreak]

DR680 was the first thing i suggested as it is indeed perfect, affordable, easy to use, flexible to add a few more channels if needed. was selling my one month old one that was used for one weekend and it was out of his budget. the DR2D i think is the only fit here

[John Willett]

DR680 was the first thing i suggested as it is indeed perfect, affordable, easy to use, flexible to adda  few more channels if needed. was selling my one month old one that was used for one weekend and it was out of his budget. the DR2D i think is the only fit here

The problem is, is that the budget is wrong.

Trying to use top quality mics like the Neumann KM140 with a cheap recorder is like buying a £2,000 professional lens for a camera and then wanting to use it on a box Brownie 

[Gutbucket]

If the pro lens was capable of interfacing with the brownie, you could take some outstanding photos with it, as rediculous as that may seem.  The brownie functions simply as light-tight box, shutter and film advance.  A fully fuctional professional camera body has more advanced functions and controls, but by far the important basic element beyond a simple shutter and light-tight box is the lens.

It is most certainly a rediculous combination for a professional who requires reliabillity above all else, a streamlined production environment, has use for advanced controls, etc.

But it is not a rediculous combination based soley on the potential quality of the end product, the mis-match does not prevent it from working, just eliminates 'niceties' of getting the job done and reliabiltiy, which are critical for a professional for hire.

I once attended a exhibition of beautiful large-format photographic prints made with various high-quality professional lenses mounted on cardboard boxes, the filmstock simply adheared to the back of the box and the lens cap used as shutter.  Basically a homemade pin-hole camera with top-caliber lenses attached, not nearly as advanced as a Browine!

[2manyrocks]

No doubt someone in China will start making lens adapters to put a $2,000 lens on a brownie, but the local drug store still won't develop the film anymore. 

If the OP's friend doesn't want to spend more than $200-$300, then Dr2d is about the cheapest option for 4 channels albeit unusual for him to own his other valuable equipment.  If he doesn't like the results, then he can resell the 2d and won't be out a huge amount of money. 

[LikeASong]

Spot on, Gutbucket - as usual.

I don't think anybody can tell/hear a difference between a recording made with the exact same pair of mics placed at the exact same spot fed by the exact same preamp, feeding a DR680 and a DR2D both recording at a comparable gain level, and the recordings being normalized to -0.1dB. I'm open to listen to a comparison that prove me wrong, but I dare to say that those recordings will be close to identical. Of course, the reliability, durability, look, batery life, etc of the recorders aren't even close among them, but as far as the recording goes, I think they're almost indistinguishable.

In my collection there are a SHITLOAD of concerts recorded (by amateur and advanced tapers) with KM-140's or similar high-end microphones and Tascam/Sony/Edirol/whatever recorders all under $200, and all of them sound perfectly fine.

[adrianf74]

In my collection there are a SHITLOAD of concerts recorded (by amateur and advanced tapers) with KM-140's or similar high-end microphones and Tascam/Sony/Edirol/whatever recorders all under $200, and all of them sound perfectly fine.

This.

And as the technology improves there's little difference between product A and B (unless product A or B is made by Zoom). 

How many people around here run Schoeps MK4's > Actives > TinyBox > M10?  Or AKG's with the same route? 

At the end of the day, you just need a recorder that does what you need it do.  The DR-680 is probably the best option available to the OP.

[Gutbucket]

Ignoring critical feature differences like balanced inputs and phantom powering, and important operational and functional differences, there are real performance differences between recorders.  I just don't think recoding bands in bars playing through PAs gets close to the threshold level where those sonic differences in recorders become significant.   What's more important in this case is budget and functionality (setup and operation), rather than differences in sound quality between recorders or a gross mismatch of gear quality.   If the user has great mics but a small budget for a recorder then there is no reason not to go ahead and use the good mics with a less expensive machine as long as it works to their satisfaction.

The differences in sound quality between recorders is due primarily to the quality of the analog input circuitry up to and including the analog to digital converter.  Feeding line-level signals to the recorder doesn't eliminate the need for good analog input circuitry but reduces the low noise demands placed on it among other things. ADC quality constanty improves and gets less costly.  Does the ADC in the DR2d, the DR680 and R44 when recording the same mics and external preamp sound significantly different?  I don't doubt that they may if one listens closely enough.  I've never compared them that closely; they all do a good enough job that I can worry about more significant things than those small sound quality differences.  I did hear a clear improvement in the ADC when I switched from original R09s to DR2ds.  That difference crossed my personal threshold.  I do prefer the sound of the V3 preamp and its ADC over the internal preamps and ADC of my R44 (OCM) and DR680 (stock) but except for a few critical recordings made in perfect conditions, that difference is usually not enough to overcome the convenience of plugging mics straight into those recorders. I mostly run the V3 when I need more than 6 channels into the DR680 and can reccord two additional channels by using the V3's digital output; more of a practical thing than a sound thing.

[Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)]

Everyone's been recommending the right stuff.

Taking a different tack, if your friend already has a laptop PC with a Firewire port and can stand to record using it, add a second-hand MOTU Traveler for under $300, download a copy of Audacity,  and you're done.

[H₂O]

I am sure the AD quality between the dr680 and dr2d is not much different but there are other factors such as ergonomics, interface, etc that IMO warrant the extra expense

Such as locking, balanced, XLR's; a more solid feel then a hand held recorder; an interface designed from top to bottom with multitrack considered; headphone channel soloing; etc

I still don't get it

[2manyrocks]

Well, the OP started off making an assumption about his friend's budget being $200-$300, and all of us have a tendency to look at this a bit more broadly than the question as originally posed. 

With those mics and that preamp, one would might naturally suspect the available budget would be more than $200-$300.  Something does not compute or there's some other consideration that hasn't been put on the table.  Maybe the "friend" was fishing to see if he could get the OP's 680 at a real bargain price....

[jerryfreak]

Well, the OP started off making an assumption about his friend's budget being $200-$300, and all of us have a tendency to look at this a bit more broadly than the question as originally posed. 

With those mics and that preamp, one would might naturally suspect the available budget would be more than $200-$300.  Something does not compute or there's some other consideration that hasn't been put on the table.  Maybe the "friend" was fishing to see if he could get the OP's 680 at a real bargain price....

hes an 'ex-taper', that was over a decade ago

[kirk97132]

I am sure the AD quality between the dr680 and dr2d is not much different but there are other factors such as ergonomics, interface, etc that IMO warrant the extra expense

WHen I first got my 680 I did a comp between the A/D on the 680 and the A/d on my Lunatec V3.  They were indistinguishable.  If you were to dig deep enough the comp is somewhere here on TS.  As for the price range stated, just because you already own mics and a pre that cost a fair amount of money does not mean you are in  a position to spend a bunch more money right now.  I know that for a fact.  If I had to spend 100 or more dollars right now I would be hard pressed to find the funds unless I sold something.  Yet I own 680's a V3 and SD MP-2 & USBPre-2 along with about 20 mics.

[2manyrocks]

The man's had ten years to save his $.