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Offline cheshirecat

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Universal HD Player
« on: July 30, 2007, 05:33:27 PM »
Is there one on the market yet?  I've been contemplating an HD player but I don't want to get involved in the whole format war... I know there was talk of one maybe a year ago, and a quick search of the internet shows that Samsung has a dual format HD player coming out in Autumn, but I was wondering if there are any other options on the market?
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 06:12:56 PM »
i'd say no.
they no likey ripped DVD-As, and SACD is "non rippable"

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 06:16:56 PM »
Yes there are.  LG has one now, but it's only got about a half-implemented HD-DVD spec.  Waiting for the Samsung is probably the way to go for now.

Edit - And if you want to watch Universal HD movies, all you need is a $199 HD-DVD player, as Universal is exclusive to HD-DVD. ;)
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Offline cheshirecat

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 06:24:27 PM »
Edit - And if you want to watch Universal HD movies, all you need is a $199 HD-DVD player, as Universal is exclusive to HD-DVD. ;)


Yeah yeah yeah... cut me some slack, I'm at work here  ;)

Anyway to further clarify, I'm looking for the video side of my setup, something that will play HD-DVD and Blu-Ray... not really that worried about audio support, I practically never use any discs except to rip them to flac and play them via Squeezebox.
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2007, 07:13:54 PM »
hmmm...
I read universal HD player as "universal hard drive player"...as in hdd based music server.


Offline macdaddy

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2007, 07:18:46 PM »
i wouldnt worry about hd-dvd - by xmas, blu-ray will likely be the clear winner of the format war...

-macdaddy ++

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Offline cheshirecat

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 07:32:32 PM »
hmmm...
I read universal HD player as "universal hard drive player"...as in hdd based music server.



hahaha, d'oh... yeah i should have been more clear, when you're thinking one thing, you don't always think about other interpretations.
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 08:37:03 PM »
i wouldnt worry about hd-dvd - by xmas, blu-ray will likely be the clear winner of the format war...



::)

Don't listen to the fanboys.  Neither format is going anywhere for a while.  Expect Lionsgate to go neutral very soon, especially after HD-DVD blows away Blu-Ray this holiday season with sub-$150 players, while BluRay will be sticking with the $599 PS3 (the 60gbs will be gone by then).
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Offline cheshirecat

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 09:08:07 PM »
i wouldnt worry about hd-dvd - by xmas, blu-ray will likely be the clear winner of the format war...



::)

Don't listen to the fanboys.  Neither format is going anywhere for a while.  Expect Lionsgate to go neutral very soon, especially after HD-DVD blows away Blu-Ray this holiday season with sub-$150 players, while BluRay will be sticking with the $599 PS3 (the 60gbs will be gone by then).

hahaha, exactly.  Format war?  What format war?
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 10:08:29 PM »
fanboy? gimme a break.

here are the facts:
blockbuster (responsible for 40% of film studios' revenue) is going blu-ray only
target (nation's second largest retailer) is pushing blu-ray, and seems to be phasing out hd-dvd
toshiba (hd-dvd patent holder) is making blu-ray/hd-dvd players
universal (the lone exclusive hd-dvd film producer) is likely to go neutral soon
i could go on...

furthermore, all i wrote was:

"i wouldnt worry about hd-dvd - by xmas, blu-ray will likely be the clear winner of the format war..."

while i might be pushing the timetable, i was just trying to offer advice - if you are looking to get into highdef dvd players, you would be wise to go with blu-ray, or at least one of the dual format players...

and if you dont think it is a format war, what exactly do you think it is..? this kind of deal is a zero-sum game for big business.




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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2007, 10:20:53 PM »
fanboy? gimme a break.

here are the facts:
blockbuster (responsible for 40% of film studios' revenue) is going blu-ray only
target (nation's second largest retailer) is pushing blu-ray, and seems to be phasing out hd-dvd
toshiba (hd-dvd patent holder) is making blu-ray/hd-dvd players
universal (the lone exclusive hd-dvd film producer) is likely to go neutral soon
i could go on...

furthermore, all i wrote was:

"i wouldnt worry about hd-dvd - by xmas, blu-ray will likely be the clear winner of the format war..."

while i might be pushing the timetable, i was just trying to offer advice - if you are looking to get into highdef dvd players, you would be wise to go with blu-ray, or at least one of the dual format players...

and if you dont think it is a format war, what exactly do you think it is..? this kind of deal is a zero-sum game for big business.

Haha.  Nice facts.
1. Blockbuster is not BD exclusive - HD-DVD is still available in the original HD stores (they just didn't expand the program) and it is still available on Blockbuster.com
2. Target is NOT pushing BluRay.  All that happened was Sony bought an endcap.  That's it.
3. Toshiba is NOT making BluRay players.
4. The CEO of Universal just confirmed that they are NOT going neutral anytime soon.

Unless, of course, you could actually prove any of what you just wrote.  In which case I'd eat my hat.

You may not be a fanboy, but you definitely have bought into the BS sony's been spewing in the media.  Right now HD-DVD has 3 players in the top 10 on Amazon.com, BluRay has none.  3 of the top 4 best selling HD movies are HD-DVD, 6 out of the top 10.  There is absolutely no reason to think HD-DVD is going anywhere.

Edit - BTW, I just re-read my posts and they came off a bit hostile.  Don't mean it that way, I can just get a little heated about this stuff. ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 10:23:59 PM by John Kelly »
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2007, 10:49:24 PM »
the bs comes from both camps. the blockbuster deal is huge, and those "original HD stores" are but a handful, so their impact (of carrying hd-dvd) is negligible. the target move stings, and if history repeats, is a harbinger of things to come. i will have to dig up the toshiba bit (saw it discussed on the avs boards somewhere), and while the universal public company line is no blu-ray, inside word is different...


here is an article re: the situation, basically confirming what we have both just said...

while the numbers dont show it right now, the sales are going to be shifting soon - they already are. my point is still valid - of the two formats, hd-dvd is the one seemingly on the ropes, and if one is shopping for a high def player, one would be wise to pay attention to the signs, and go with blu-ray. just my opinion, but that's all i was offering in the first place. oh, and john - it's all good, we have been on this board for years now, and i know better than to think you are being hostile. i know you are into this stuff - you almost talked me into buying a hddvd player. but then i went the other way...

+t

oh, and in an effort to sway this thread back to the topic...

here is a good place to look for dual format player information; not definitive, but a ver good place to start.

« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 11:07:10 PM by macdaddy »
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2007, 07:28:54 AM »
my question is...
are either of these HD formats that superior over a well upsampled 1080i/p output ?

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2007, 07:58:38 AM »
my question is...
are either of these HD formats that superior over a well upsampled 1080i/p output ?


They are 1080p content. 

If you're referring to broadcast television, then yes, they are superior.  HD on cable/satellite is compressed - think of it as the mp3 of the HD world. ;)
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2007, 08:10:49 AM »
my question is...
are either of these HD formats that superior over a well upsampled 1080i/p output ?


They are 1080p content. 

If you're referring to broadcast television, then yes, they are superior.  HD on cable/satellite is compressed - think of it as the mp3 of the HD world. ;)

I get HD over the antenna for my locals...which is not compressed, and to date, nothing touches it...hell the local news broadcast (WRAL, the first to go HD all the time nationally from a local news broadcast angle) has the best picture I have ever seen..

I believe Nick is referring to upsampling players...such as the Oppo units....I recently bought a 981HD which upsamples to 1080p and the picture is freaking fantastic.  Is HD or BluRay better?  Maybe...but I have a library of normal DVDs that i have no intention on replacing and I am comfortable with my upsampling player until one of the formats goes the way of the minidisc

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2007, 08:12:28 AM »
yes...that is what I meant.
we are talking decks, not signals.

Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2007, 08:23:41 AM »
my question is...
are either of these HD formats that superior over a well upsampled 1080i/p output ?


They are 1080p content. 

If you're referring to broadcast television, then yes, they are superior.  HD on cable/satellite is compressed - think of it as the mp3 of the HD world. ;)

I get HD over the antenna for my locals...which is not compressed, and to date, nothing touches it...hell the local news broadcast (WRAL, the first to go HD all the time nationally from a local news broadcast angle) has the best picture I have ever seen..

I believe Nick is referring to upsampling players...such as the Oppo units....I recently bought a 981HD which upsamples to 1080p and the picture is freaking fantastic.  Is HD or BluRay better?  Maybe...but I have a library of normal DVDs that i have no intention on replacing and I am comfortable with my upsampling player until one of the formats goes the way of the minidisc

Depends on the channels.  Most OTA channels now have subchannels, which do take away bandwidth from the main channel and causes a loss of quality.  All of my locals do this, and from what I understand very few around the country do not.  If you have one of those channels, it should look comparable to a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. 

My DVD player is a Toshiba HD-D2, one of the best upsampling DVD players you can buy (and a great HD-DVD player to boot).  I can notice a drastic difference between HD and upconverted SD on my set, and it's only 720p.  A few movies I own look fantastic upsampled, though - particularly Pixar animated movies.  The Incredibles looks HD when it's upscaled. 

But for the most part, I can see a big difference which is why I made the jump to HD-DVD in the first place. 
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 05:19:29 PM »
swinging off-topic (again) >>

Quote
Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD Format War
Will Toshiba stop manufacturing HD-DVD machines by the end of 2009?

Two similar technologies-Blu-ray and HD-DVD-are vying to replace DVDs. Blu-ray has greater capacity: 50 gigabytes versus 30 for HD-DVD. More important, it has far more industry support. Toshiba is the only significant hardware company to fully back the HD-DVD format, while virtually every computer and consumer-electronics company supports Blu-ray. Blu-ray also has overwhelming film-industry support. Every major studio except Universal supports Blu-ray; just three support HD-DVD. (Two studios support both.) Combination Blu-ray/HD-DVD drives are also skewed toward Blu-ray. Pioneer's combo computer drive, for example, reads HD-DVD, but it reads and writes in Blu-ray, ensuring that people will use this format for archiving their data.

This proposition will pay off at POP$100 per share if Toshiba announces that it will cease production of HD-DVD players by December 31, 2009.
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2007, 06:57:50 AM »
After this holiday season people will start asking when Sony will stop making BluRay players.  Article means nothing. ;)
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Offline cheshirecat

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2007, 10:35:00 AM »
After this holiday season people will start asking when Sony will stop making BluRay players.  Article means nothing. ;)

This is exactly why I want something that will play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD... seems like both sides are being stubborn, but I would be too if I had invested so much in R&D.

As a consumer, I really don't want to care when I go buy a DVD what the format is.
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 11:34:12 AM »
After this holiday season people will start asking when Sony will stop making BluRay players.  Article means nothing. ;)

This is exactly why I want something that will play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD... seems like both sides are being stubborn, but I would be too if I had invested so much in R&D.

As a consumer, I really don't want to care when I go buy a DVD what the format is.

john is making stuff up here... if anybody ceases making a format next year, that format will be hd-dvd.  :o

those dual format players are a bit steep in price - i would check that forum i linked to over at avs if you are thinking of buying one.

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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Universal HD Player
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2007, 12:27:38 PM »
macdaddy's making stuff up here. ;)

In truth, neither format is going anywhere anytime soon.  Universal will NOT be going ... universal. ;)  Lionsgate probably will go neutral next year.  Most other studios will follow suit, except for Sony, Disney, and MAYBE Fox. 

The only people predicting an outright winner of this "war" are people who are rooting for a side so badly that they refuse to recognize the truth of the scenario - both formats CAN and will coexist together.  Just as SACD and DVD-Audio did.  This isn't VHS vs. Beta.
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