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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: cpclark on July 22, 2003, 12:08:15 PM
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have to upgrade to a new pre/ad before camden next week, gotta have good tapes for phish and my ad20 isnt cuttting it, whats better for flat frequency respone, the mids are the strength in these mics, with the bass and treble about the same clarity, what would be better, your opinions will lead to my purchase, thanks.
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Here is my opinion, and again this is only my opinion! I find the V3 to be very tight throughout the range. What I really like about it would be the high's and the tight low end, not as pronounced as the mini-me, not even close, but very tight. The mini-me has a big fat warm bottom end, and if you like bass in your tapes, I would say the mini-me would be the better choice. If you like a very transparent tape, the v3 would be where to go. The v3 bottom end just isn't as pronounced as the mini-me's, and yields what I would dare to call a thinner sound than the mini-me. The mini-me is great throughout the mid-range, giving that warm fat feeling. I think it';s bottom end is a little too pronounced, but a sound I have gotten use to as I have used it more and more. If I were to do it all over again I would probably go with the v3, as I feel it has a superior pre in it. The a/d side I give to the mini-me. That said, my future plans are to run a v2 in front of the mini-me, which I find tightens things up just the right amount to make the sound a much more pleasing one. I think the mini-me is more forgiving. All of this doesn't take into account features, because I evaluate my gear on how it sounds, and I can deal with rest!
Daryan
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sound quality is all i care about really, fuck the options, the sound is what your really out to get
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There'll be plenty of good tapes pulled at Camden, so...what's the rush?
First, a question:
What don't you like about the AD-20? The answer may help steer you one way or the other for your next pre/ad.
Second, the choice is pretty basic:
If you like the sound of your mics and want transparency, go with the V3. If you like the Apogee sound, go with the Minime.
Third, I'm not familiar with your mics, but you are. So:
If you don't know which you prefer - transparency or Apogee color - be patient, do more listening, and make the decision based on what your ears tell you. It may mean waiting til after Camden, but...there will be plenty more shows to tape down the road and you can always pick up a Camden tape from someone else if you're not happy with your recording.
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looks like the v3 and its better transparent sound is getting the nod, yeah for new toyz, just totally redid my setup in the last two weeks.
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It seems to me that you're kinda jumping the gun on this one. Brian gave some really good advice.. I think its probably pretty same to say that no one here has run audio technica 4051a>v3.. if someone has please speak up.
From another completely different perspective:
Hell, its your decision and money, you can probably get close to what you paid for the v3 if you don't like.
DO WHAT YOU LIKE
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To go about this in a more organized way, why don't you download some copies of shows from archive.org that have a MiniMe or V3 in the chain and listen for yourself to how those sound. It would be a better approach than asking everybody on here their opinion on how it sounds.
As a former AD-20 user myself, I realize the limitations of this unit. At a loud rock show, Brian is absolutely right, you won't notice that attenuators are even in the signal chain. I would urge you to look into that more cost-effective option and then listen to as many shows as you can with different components in them before jumping to a decision (self-limited between two units) based on what people on this board prefer.
Also, do you really need a V3 or MiniMe? For example, have you considered a modUA-5? How about the MP-2 > modSBM-1 combination? Or V2 > ADC-20? Or....... I think that you get the point with this. $1000+ to me is a lot of money and *I* would want to be damn well happy with the tapes that *I* make from it.
You may get a greater perspective on this decision by waiting a little while, comparing different sources, asking to borrow somebody's gear in Camden, or just patching from different sources if you are unsure of the different ways that gear will affect the sound.
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i heard two moe tapes with these mics a while back, liked the sound, did some research, turns out that these mics rock, not many people use them and im sure they are many on this board that use mics that arent circulation much in the taper community, i know what i want, my ad20 is very clippable and moving from 99db dynamic range to ~105 with minime/v3, my mics could accomplish a lot more, and going to a show and running 0 gain scares the shit out of me, ive clipped many tapes with my old c1000's and dont want anymore, did phish on 2/22/03 cincy 2nd nigh, clipped the shit out of ad20, and ive heard many other stories about it, i love it, dont get me wrong, but my mics require a better pre, and if im going ot get one, i want the best , and the minime/v3 choice is what im left with, sorry for seeming like im jumping the gun on the purchase, but it is neccesary, i guess im new to taping if ive only been doing it for 8 months, but my ears tell me what to do, and the v3 is what my conscious is telling me to buy.
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i heard two moe tapes with these mics a while back, liked the sound, did some research, turns out that these mics rock, not many people use them and im sure they are many on this board that use mics that arent circulation much in the taper community, i know what i want, my ad20 is very clippable and moving from 99db dynamic range to ~105 with minime/v3, my mics could accomplish a lot more, and going to a show and running 0 gain scares the shit out of me, ive clipped many tapes with my old c1000's and dont want anymore, did phish on 2/22/03 cincy 2nd nigh, clipped the shit out of ad20, and ive heard many other stories about it, i love it, dont get me wrong, but my mics require a better pre, and if im going ot get one, i want the best , and the minime/v3 choice is what im left with, sorry for seeming like im jumping the gun on the purchase, but it is neccesary, i guess im new to taping if ive only been doing it for 8 months, but my ears tell me what to do, and the v3 is what my conscious is telling me to buy.
FWIW, there is no absolute "best". Only best to your ears, with your other gear, on your playback system.
You say your ears tell you what to do, but the only thing I've read in your posts so far with which your ears are unhappy: overloading the AD-20. I've read this 3 or 4 times across 2 different posts.
Last time I'll say it: there's an easy, inexpensive, quality solution to overloading the AD-20: attenuators.
I feel I've done my part in helping to present alternative options. Now it's up to you to make the decision.
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but if ive wanted to upgrade to a new pre/ad when i had the money, is that cool, sell the ad20, probably could get 200, now the v3 is only like 1200, more affordable than 1500
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but if ive wanted to upgrade to a new pre/ad when i had the money, is that cool, sell the ad20, probably could get 200, now the v3 is only like 1200, more affordable than 1500
I think you have the info you need to make your decision. Big assumption on my part: it seems as though you're seeking affirmation of some kind that you're making the right decision. Well, I don't think you are. I think attenuators are the appropriate solution.
But it's your money, your gear, etc....sleep on it for a day and do what you genuinely feel is best.
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i heard two moe tapes with these mics a while back, liked the sound, did some research, turns out that these mics rock, not many people use them and im sure they are many on this board that use mics that arent circulation much in the taper community, i know what i want, my ad20 is very clippable and moving from 99db dynamic range to ~105 with minime/v3, my mics could accomplish a lot more, and going to a show and running 0 gain scares the shit out of me, ive clipped many tapes with my old c1000's and dont want anymore, did phish on 2/22/03 cincy 2nd nigh, clipped the shit out of ad20, and ive heard many other stories about it, i love it, dont get me wrong, but my mics require a better pre, and if im going ot get one, i want the best , and the minime/v3 choice is what im left with, sorry for seeming like im jumping the gun on the purchase, but it is neccesary, i guess im new to taping if ive only been doing it for 8 months, but my ears tell me what to do, and the v3 is what my conscious is telling me to buy.
I am sorry and again, to quote Brian, I don't want to sound like a dick, but this is what I see.
1.) Dynamic range has absolutely NOTHING to do with a mic or a preamp clipping or running 0 gain or whatever. The switchable Shure attenuators available through MicSupply.com, for example, could solve this problem by limiting the signal entering the AD-20.
2.) I fail to see how a new preamp purchase is necessary, let alone one based on an unformed personal opinon. Asking people on a board what to get and then going out and doing it is always risky, especially if you don't like how it sounds with your mics. You may want to see if there are tapers in your area who will let you borrow a piece of gear for a show or two. I have a great relationship with Nick and Jason, for example, and I would not have a problem with either of them borrowing anything.
3.) Why do you need "the best" preamp? "Best" according to whom? Me? Brian? Kris? Daryan? The only "best" you should be concerned with is what *YOU* think is the "best." Listening to multiple shows with different pieces of gear is the only best solution to this. For example, I know one taper who says the best preamp / A/D combination is PS-2 > modSBM-1. His tapes sound fantastic. I know another who says the best is the m148 > AD-1000. His tapes also sound fantastic, but in a different way. There is like a $2,000 difference in equipment. Both tapes sound fantastic and what the "best" constitutes in this example is personal preference.
In closing, it is not us you have to apologize to for jumping the gun, but rather yourself if you happen to purchase a piece of gear that you did not like.
I really don't mean to be didactic about this, but again, I urge you to get the attenuators so you won't clip the AD-20 and then begin critically listening to many different sources so you can isolate the qualities that you want to emulate in them or change in your own. Then, you can make an informed decision about what piece of gear to purchase that may not cost you as much as a V3 or MiniMe.
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I am sorry and again, to quote Brian, I don't want to sound like a dick, but this is what I see. <snip>
Well summarized, D. I think we've done all we can to help educate, it's up to him, now.
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Just to jump in here at the last minute, I have to agree with Jamie and Brian here. From personal experience I have run my mics >phantom power> mod sbm-1, and currently run mp-2>mod sbm-1, which in my opinion, is a first class preamp/ad converter for the 391(3)s. But when I ran with no pre, I could not get enough gain for some shows I went to. However, instead of buying a preamp, I got a couple of AT transformers (~$20 each) to give me the gain I wanted, which gave me time to (1) come up with the money for the solution I wanted and (2) continue to investigate to figure out where I wanted to go equipment-wise
I guess the point I am trying to make is for the most part, I have personally listened to many different combos, tried out other pieces of equipment, with my current rig to see what I like, and this is how I have ended up where I am at.
When I started this hobby a few years ago, I would buy, buy, buy without having any clue what I like, and ended up selling many mics. While I did get lucky with the mod SBM (still love the sound from it), this practice cost me money in the long run. Patience with equipment, and the new trends in taping is IMHO the best thing that I can practice, in order to make sure I will not be throwing money away by having to resell equipment, in a used equipment market, which appears to be getting saturated with prices going where they are going.
Just my .02.
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i just want to say that i appreciate the advice, although ive only been taping for 8-9 months i have been trading music for well over 4 years now, and have had many chances to review and find out what kind of mics sound best with pre's, a/d's, and dat's/computers. but much of this info i already know. i just think some people are talking down to me, not thinking i am informed, i was just asking for IMHO's, i know what both sound like, just trying to get a first hand perspective, ive listened to hundreds of tapes and heard many combo's and the minime/v3 i think sounded the best wtih the mics i liked, so thats where we are, thanks for everyones opinion and ill get the attenuators before i buy a v3
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i just think some people are talking down to me, not thinking i am informed, i was just asking for IMHO's, i know what both sound like,
Hey Chris -- apologies if you felt I was talking down to you. Not my intent at all! I just wanted to make sure you knew what your options were, that's all, understand where you were coming from, and help you make the decision that's best for you. Sorry if it came across as down-talking.
If you're in NE Ohio sometime, you're welcome to borrow my V3 to see how it sounds with your mics. :)
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I think that all we are trying to do is make sure you aren't going to make the same mistakes many of us have already made, aka wasting money on gear.
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i just think some people are talking down to me, not thinking i am informed, i was just asking for IMHO's, i know what both sound like,
My apologies if it came across that way...just trying to give you my first hand experience...
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its all good in the hood fellas, i dont hold any grudges
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i guess i was being a little sensitive, i did ask for your opinions and thats what i got, no worries everyone, i loaded upsome keller to the livemusic archive 7/10 and 7/19 if anyone interested in some new keller.
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anyone have a V3 or minime for me to borrow for camden -> IT, i know its a lot to ask , but im taking everyones advice and try to find a nice person to lend me one for 4 shows, thanks all. +T to everyone on the this thread and the one in the open forum
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chris - you're in cincy right? i'd be willing to lend you my mp-2 and/or adc-20 if you're interested in seeing how they work w/ your mics. for the price that mp2s and adc-20s are going for now you might want to look into that route. as for the mini me and v3, i've never had the chance to run either but i've heard great tapes made w/ both so it really just depends on what sound your ear like.
nick
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i'd be interested in the mp-2, adc-20, ive alwasy liked the mp2, but since they discontinued it i kind of shyed away from it, but ive love to try it out and its cheaper than minime/v3 with both of the units together, i am in maryland at school, i should take cincy off there, i rarely go back anymore, but if your willing to ship i can do that no problem, just let me know if its cool, ill be here on and off for a while
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Chris,
When exactly are the shows? I could possibly do some lending next week of the mini-me, as I don't see anything I amremotely interested in after my two day BT run until Grassroots festival over in Hunt Valley...which hapens to be where i am right now.
I also agree that some people were a bit harsh towards you. IMHO, it is your money, and upgrading to either of those units would make for an overall improvement of sound, which I believe is your ultimate goal! Get what makes you happy, not what any of us tell you! An opinion is just that, an opinion, and doesn't mean shit if it doesn't do for you what you want it to. My personal opinion is that the ad-20 is a thin sounding pre, and you would b much happier with the v3!
And once you get it, i would love to borrow it to run some more ab's with it...I have splitter cables and an extra deck if you want to do some of your own!
Daryan
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i'd be interested in the mp-2, adc-20, ive alwasy liked the mp2, but since they discontinued it i kind of shyed away from it, but ive love to try it out and its cheaper than minime/v3 with both of the units together
Look into the Shure FP-24 or the Sound Devices MixPre; they are very, very similar products to the MP-2.
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im still interested in your minime daryan if you still want to do it. ill be gone from the evening of july29-aug.4or5
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That should work. PM me and we can talk about details.
Daryan