Topic: Battery powered microphone preamps with phantom power?

[Shadow_7]

I'm looking for a 2 channel microphone preamp that is battery powered and has phantom power.  I want something semi high end.  I have and use a Korg MR-1000 and I'm looking to suppliment / improve upon that unit.  So beachtek, Juiced link, church audio, and others might not be what I'm looking for.

I had targeted a sonosax SX-M2, but those seem to have been discontinued.  Are there any in the same league and battery powered.  Looking for a rig that's basically one person one trip, middle of a corn field type recording.  Not your typical setup I guess, but I just don't like being tied into the grid with unreliable power and other issues.  Not when they can be avoided.

Would two sound devices MP-1's do the trick.  I'd rather it be a single unit drawing from one power source.  So my stereo pair of mics stays matched.  But these seem to spec about right for what I'm looking for.  Except for that x2 thing.

Any others out there to consider?  I'd prefer with a full 48V phantom power.  Limiter optional, but a plus.  2 channels minimum.  Battery powered mandatory.  Pick up and leave on a moments notice.  Put in a box and shield from the elements and other things that you just can't do when tethered to a socket.  I've thought about the battery + inverter route, but that's really a bit much for my needs and I'm just not there yet.

Thanks.

[OOK]

Someone here stated before....recording is like nascar...how fast do you want to go?

Check out the following: all are great quality and can be run on battery power...

1.  The Niant littlebox.....great quality.......excellent price....somewhere around 300$ give or take.....depending
     on features
2.  The Aerco preamp...again great quality.......about 750$ new....but your gonna wait...build times seem
     slow...
3.  N-box....battery operated...only works with schoep mic caps.....1500$ new excluding caps..
4.  The soundevice Mixpre and MP2....about 650 new for a mix...sometimes can find one around 400 to 450 used...the MP2
     is out of production.
5.  The Grace design V3....1500$ new...about 900$ used.  you can find a V2 for around 700$....these are out of production..
6.  The sonosax is a great little pre..around 800$ used....they are out of production....
7.  Oade 148 or 248..custom mic pres..all out of production, but the pop up every once and a while in the yard
     sale..between 7004 to 1000$ depending on model and condition.


Anyone feel free to add to the list.....


8.  An Oade or Bussman mod UA5....how could I forget.....no longer in production...but can be had used for 200$ to 300$.
9.  Apogee minime or mini MP...excellent pres...the minime adds the AD to the pre.....either could be had for around 600 to 700$
     used.  both are no longer in production....  I can't beleive I forgot about these too...I owned a minime and loved it...I have
     regreted selling it ever since....

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I had great success with an Oade Warm Mod Plus Edirol UA-5.  Sometimes I wish I still had it...

Terry

[fmaderjr]

I assume you don't care about an on board ADC, since you don't mention it. I absolutely love both the SD MixPre and the Naiant Littlebox (why consider 2 SD MP-1's when you can get a MixPre or MP-2). I hated the Apogee Mini-MP solely due to its form factor.

The Littlebox gets better battery life if you don't use an external supply on the MixPre, but the MixPre's limiter works great and provides a good deal more gain if you're recording a lot of quiet stuff.   

[Shadow_7]

The V3 would be what I would probably lean towards.  I almost forgot about that one.  I was sort of set on the SX-M2, but that might not be an option anymore.  I don't need ADC, since the Korg MR-1000 is a field recorder, and a good one at DSD resolutions.

I'm sort of set on spending $500 per channel, not that I'm not opposed to saving a few bucks.  But that seems like a price point that would compliment the Korg well.  I'm mostly looking to extend battery life by taking the phantom power burden off the field recorder.  And overcome other issues known about the Korg.  Not that I'm in any rush.  It'll probably be another six months or so till I pull the trigger.  But I was toying around and found it a bit surprising that my Mobile Pre had a thicker sound and better low end than the Korg.  Same mics, same source.  A lot muddier, but EQ wise better IMO.  And the Korg's limiter is known to kick in a bit too late.  Or I could be wrong.

Any more options?  I'm looking at a minimum of 2 hours per set of batteries with 48V phantom power ON.  5 would rock.  Beyond that and I'm probably looking at a battery plus inverter rig, which makes most of this conversation moot.

[guysonic]

The V3 would be what I would probably lean towards. ------- -cut------

---cut--- I'm looking at a minimum of 2 hours per set of batteries with 48V phantom power ON.  5 would rock.  Beyond that and I'm probably looking at a battery plus inverter rig, which makes most of this conversation moot.

Supplied several pro-film recordists 15-25 hour battery sleds for V3.  This sled fits inside padded 35mm camera telephoto lens case if you like and weighing in at only 2.3 pounds.
http://www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm#bd6v3

[Shadow_7]

I'm still more of a hobbyist type.  Most things I record last about an hour.  The bigger weekends tend towards 2.5 hours.  At the extreme end maybe 3.5 hours per weekend.  Of course that's just the performance side.  Sometimes I like to capture a bit from the rehearsal, but that's generally indoors and a power tether is an option there most days.  Nothing commercial just yet.  For now, I'm just sticking with whatever native source the devices need and a second set of batteries.  Given my volunteerism and 501(c)3 genres.  Having been a performer in said groups, I just got a bit tired of mediocre efforts of other more commercial entities.  And a bit of lack of effort should conditions not be favorable.

[Todd R]

If you want to spend the money, a Lunatec V3 is a great preamp.  I owned one for 7 years and loved it.

I currently own an EAA PSP2, which is an excellent portable transformer-based preamp, and unfortunately out of production and very hard to find used.  I also own a Naiant littlebox preamp, and think it is fantastic.  You can get it customized in with a huge array of options, including internal li-ion batteries and transformer inputs and/or outputs (or user selectable transformer vs transformerless operation).  It's base price is only $210.

I would def suggest not writing it off just due to its low price.  I've done fairly controlled comparisons of it to the Lunatec V3 and the EAA PSP2 and it has fared very well, with more people overall preferring it in blind tests to either the V3 or PSP2. 

Check out the threads and comps here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124895.0
http://www.taperssection.com/index.php/topic,127721.0.html

[Note: on the V3 comp, the channels should be swapped on the littlebox source -- I goofed.]

[StuStu]

What kind of mics are you running? Some mics sound better with certain pre's and vice versa.

[Shadow_7]

Avenson STO-2's at the moment.

Maybe Beyer MC910 to Senn. MKH8020 upgrades eventually.  But I'm open on that front too.  From what I've heard the STO-2's are needy in terms of power draw, but I guess semi-forgiving if undervolt.  They're a tad noisy, but functional for what I currently do.

It looks like the V3 comes prepped for being powered by batteries, but doesn't actually come with a battery module?  Am I reading that right?  For ~$1,400?  Ouch!

I did try feeding the Korg with a DMP3 and the difference was nominal, in favor of the Korgs internal preamps.  So I am looking for better than that, plus runs on battery power.  Lower noise, flatter EQ, and other things I'm hoping to improve.

[Shadow_7]

The STO-2's are probably a little light on transient detail.  DSD helps a lot, but it can only do so much.  There's a mod for the Korg's preamp to improve low end.  At the moment I'm doing a 0.03db bump slope in terms of EQ.  Starting at 0.00dB and cresting at 0.42dB on the low end and that seems to help a lot.  But in terms of a brass ensemble sound the Tuba / Bass voice is still a bit absent.  The SM81's I used for a short bit had much better low end, but changed character a lot when subjected to higher SPL levels.  And were too problematic to weather proof (wind noise).  And too directional for a proper stereo image.  Just some things I've perceived.  Or I could be wrong. 

[StuStu]

It seems you might be looking to switch mics as is. I'm not personally familiar with the Avenson STO-2's. I recommend trying the very affordable Naiant "Little Box." If you later decide you'd like to try something else, you can't go wrong with either a Grace V2 or V3 no matter what mics you're running. I'm never disappointed when I run my V2.   

[Shadow_7]

From what I've googled (quite a while ago) the STO-2's have something like 27dB noise floor rating.  Where the SM81's were closer to 15dB.  There's always that freeway type sound in the track, even when you're not that close to any lanes of traffic.  Still excellent mics, mainly in terms of what you hear is what you get, and being very forgiving in most applications.  As long as you have proximity + loud source.  The specs for the STO-2's are a bit lacking from the source, so I'm not sure how accurate that 27dB number is, but perceptibly it seems about right to me relative to the two aforementioned mics.  I do plan on upgrading eventually.  But that'll be an upgrade, I tried the lateral move thing and for every one issue resolved(better low end), three more were introduced(proximity effect, handling noise, wind noise).

Any comparisons for the V3 against other grounded / tethered options.  Preamp shoutouts and whatnot that I can get a feel for how it does relative to something I might be familiar with?  Or anything better and actually battery powered by design, not an aftermarket upgrade / after thought.  Perhaps I should just seek out a used SX-M2.  I'm looking for something clean and tranparent.  No coloration, just as honest sounding as a piece of tech can be.  I want that you are there sound.  Not that you're in some strange accoustic cage in proximity of there sound.

[DSatz]

Shadow_7, I checked the respective Web sites just now, and found the equivalent noise for the Avenson listed at 28 dBA and the Shure at 16 dBA. A-weighted specifications are of dubious meaning at such low SPLs because the "A" weighting curve was designed to match the ear's response at a considerably higher sound pressure level. Also, A-weighted noise measurements tend to be RMS (i.e. averaged over time) so that they don't include impulse ("shot") noise, which is much more audibly disturbing than smooth, continuous noise.

If you want to add about 10 or 12 dB to those "dBA" numbers, you might get a number that comes closer to what the microphone noise actually sounds like, although that is a rough guide, and the whole point is that any one numeric value for noise will nearly always fall short of a true characterization. And I have to say, while the concern about microphone noise can get exaggerated sometimes, given the amount of noise present in nearly all recording venues (as can the concern about preamp noise, given the combined microphone AND venue noise), 28 dBA for a modern condenser microphone just isn't a very good showing.

On the other hand the Avenson is an omni (equalized for free-field pickup, which can sound a bit on the dull side for indoor recordings that aren't very close to the sound source) while the Shure is a cardioid, so the two types of microphone would tend to be used rather differently anyway, even apart from their noise specifications. There's a certain amount of "apples vs. oranges" going on in this comparison, I think.

--best regards

[Shadow_7]

Well, at the time I was adding video to the kit.  So I was expecting to be backing away from the source in the process.  So the SM81's were an attempt to compensate for that.  But they proved too problematic than beneficial for my applications(in the presence of an audience).  Most of my recordings are outdoors with semi-large brass ensembles.  Even at 50 yards out I'm still about 10 or 11am on the gain dial.  Where I'd be closer to 8:30am indoors in the bloody ear seats.  It was a while ago.

-----

Anyway it looks like craigslist and friends are being kind to me this month.  Where I was hoping to offload at least $300 of stuff to just get by, ultimately $1,100 to replinish reserves, I might very well offload $2,200 of stuff.  Not enough for a V3, but the 2x MP-1's option could be done without compromising safety margins.  IF everything goes through.  As I look out my central texas window and see 2" or more of snow on the ground (not in 8 years have I seen this).

So, worth it?  Or hold out for better.  I like the unclippable propaganda aspects of the MP-1, plus the limiter options, and it's a sexy unit (albeit single channel).  Should I get both at the same time, or one to try out, then the other to match.  For a stereo pair.  I guess I'm getting a bit ansy.  I tried my STO-2's on my cheapie Mobile Pre and actually liked it's tonality better than my MR-1000 for trombone.  I know the converters are tops on the MR-1000 (my CDs never sounded so good(or bad for the bad ones)).  But there still seems to be something not there in the preamp department on the MR-1000.  Or maybe I've just been using it so long that I need different for differents sake.