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Author Topic: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues  (Read 16880 times)

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Offline cleantone

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2006, 04:43:18 PM »
I'll be damned.  :-\ I cannot believe this was overlooked from production and took this long to figure out. I wonder if it is certainly 100% of the units. I'll be testing mine today.

Quote
As you know absolute polarity does not have an affect on the sound when the relative polarity between the channels is consistent.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Your changing compression to rarefaction and visaversa. It might not be the most audible thing but I feel like it is an issue.

Quote
Always a good idea to test "bugs" first hand before pointing that finger.

I was making assumptions. I was only trying to help. It is NOT my fault the V3 swaps polarity on digi output. I'm really perplexed right now.
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Offline Dr.FOB

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2006, 04:55:06 PM »
Thank you Jamie for the quick response.

Wow what customer service we get from these guys.  Two of the best, Grace & SD.
Shows that this forum is made up of users who really wring out the features of the equpment offered!

Jim
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Offline cleantone

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2006, 04:59:17 PM »
wish I just did this before trying to work through it in my head. I had been mixing and on here when resting my ears. I had my MOTU shit on already. I grabbed my V3, plugged in a dynamic to the left channel. Opened a new DP session. Routed the left analog output to MOTU analog 1, track one. Routed AES/EBU 1 (L) to track 2. Recorded a peaky click from my mouth. Low an behold...

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2006, 05:02:59 PM »
Quote from: cleantone on March 20, 2006, 04:43:18 PM
I was making assumptions. I was only trying to help. It is NOT my fault the V3 swaps polarity on digi output. I'm really perplexed right now.

I know.. It was just really strong language at a point when the information was very limited.


As for polarity not making a difference.. I agree that it is a concern.

Now who is going to fix all of those v3 sources on archive.org and how does the right/wrong phase get described in the source line?   ::)
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Offline cleantone

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2006, 05:09:35 PM »
Quote
It was just really strong language at a point when the information was very limited.

I can assure you it probably read stronger that was intended. I THOUGHT I could count on my gear and would have noticed. My foot is in my mouth.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 05:13:48 PM by cleantone »
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Offline Dr.FOB

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2006, 05:17:21 PM »
Quote from: Freelunch on March 20, 2006, 05:02:59 PM
As for polarity not making a difference.. I agree that it is a concern.

Now who is going to fix all of those v3 sources on archive.org and how does the right/wrong phase get described in the source line?   ::)


I'm sure not going there.

I have enough material to keep me busy forever.  And to those who thought the sound sucked, it did, it should have blown!  It was out of phase.
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Offline Dr.FOB

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2006, 05:18:05 PM »
Quote from: m0k3 on March 20, 2006, 05:15:24 PM
not sure whats going on here, but,... might this be the issue that people have referrenced in the V3 adc sounding thin?

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2006, 05:23:55 PM »
Quote from: m0k3 on March 20, 2006, 05:15:24 PM
not sure whats going on here, but,... might this be the issue that people have referrenced in the V3 adc sounding thin?

Theoretically, maybe.  But I've done a few mixes with V3 + another source and found the sources out of phase.  BIG impact when mixing out of phase sources.  So I simply corrected before mixing.  But before doing so, I listened to the V3 source in both its default output phase and inverted 180º and couldn't hear a difference.  But I don't have a top notch playback system1, so...

1 Digi source > Bel Canto DAC 1.1 > Audio Experiences Symphonies > McCormack DNA-1 > VR1 or Maggie MMG + subwoofer
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Offline wboswell

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2006, 05:49:43 PM »
Quote from: cleantone on March 20, 2006, 04:43:18 PM
I'll be damned.  :-\ I cannot believe this was overlooked from production and took this long to figure out. I wonder if it is certainly 100% of the units. I'll be testing mine today.

This also happened with the AD2k+.  It was discovered well after many of the units had been mfg.

edit:
glad to finally have a firm answer on this!!!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 05:54:34 PM by wboswell »
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Offline cfox

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2006, 06:15:55 PM »
Yes, Jamie answered the situation as he did me when I had the problem, the easiest way to get around this is to go 4 analog in's into the 744 to stay away from the "latency" issue, or get your v3 serviced by grace. 
To fix the problem, Just invert the phase for the 2 channels that went digi into the 744, before combining all 4 files...
Its not always that noticable, but once you know of the problem, and start listening, it will stand out like a sore thumb.
Have you guys tried 2 digi in's into the 744 yet? ;D
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Offline wboswell

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2006, 06:41:05 PM »
Quote from: charlesfox on March 20, 2006, 06:15:55 PM
Have you guys tried 2 digi in's into the 744 yet? ;D


as long as its two out of phase V3's, it shouldn't be a problem!
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Offline cfox

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2006, 06:48:02 PM »
Quote from: wboswell on March 20, 2006, 06:41:05 PM
Quote from: charlesfox on March 20, 2006, 06:15:55 PM
Have you guys tried 2 digi in's into the 744 yet? ;D


as long as its two out of phase V3's, it shouldn't be a problem!

It won't record from 2 different digital signals...
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Offline Dr.FOB

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2006, 06:50:21 PM »
Quote from: charlesfox on March 20, 2006, 06:48:02 PM
It won't record from 2 different digital signals...
Unless they are locked in sync?
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Offline scb

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2006, 07:14:32 PM »
nutter and i tried way back when in sept 04 for mule at roseland.  we tried to input a digital signal from a v3 and mytek stereo192.  both a/ds were locked on the same clock....and it didn't work

this was a preproduction unit though,  so a lot could have changed.  but my experience is the 1 time i tried it didn't work :)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2006, 07:24:41 PM by scott brown »
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Offline cleantone

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Re: Sound Devices 744t inverted phase issues
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2006, 07:29:31 PM »
Quote
It won't record from 2 different digital signals...

I wonder why this is? Seems like if you have a masterclock and the two AES inputs it should be able to do this. Man today has been eye opening.
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