Topic: m148 Problem :(

[Dutchman1101]

I'm having a weird problem and I'm pretty sure it's the 148. I have had this happen to me the last two shows I have taped. Around the encore the levels just drop. Last night it was quite drastic. The first time it happened it was gradual with no dramatic drop that I can hear. Last night it was quite drastic. During the last song before the encore the volume just drops suddenly. Then during the encore (witch was loud as fuck) the 671 was peaking at 12db.

Is it the m148 Has anyone had this problem before? I'm thinking it could be the voltage dropping in the 148.

I run MBHO’s > m148 > PMD-671.

[terrapinj]

sounds like a battery issue

[Dutchman1101]

sounds like a battery issue

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. To be honest I have always noticed somewhat of a slight fade in levels throughout a show but I just chalked it up to the sound guy turning it down Now it's just really dramatic

[dennisrtyler]

I'm having a weird problem and I'm pretty sure it's the 148. I have had this happen to me the last two shows I have taped. Around the encore the levels just drop. Last night it was quite drastic. The first time it happened it was gradual with no dramatic drop that I can hear. Last night it was quite drastic. During the last song before the encore the volume just drops suddenly. Then during the encore (witch was loud as fuck) the 671 was peaking at 12db.

Is it the m148 Has anyone had this problem before? I'm thinking it could be the voltage dropping in the 148.

I run MBHO’s > m148 > PMD-671.

send her back to Doug for a battery once-over

[Dutchman1101]

For sure! I just had them replaced by him in April or May of last year so I'm sure he'll be cool about it. This just pisses me off becuase I have a ton of good shows coming up with no preamp I guess I'll have to see what the pre's are like in the stock 671

[dennisrtyler]

For sure! I just had them replaced by him in April or May of last year so I'm sure he'll be cool about it. This just pisses me off becuase I have a ton of good shows coming up with no preamp I guess I'll have to see what the pre's are like in the stock 671

you don't want to use the stock pre in the 671.  you can borrow my t+ ua5 if you pay for shipping both ways and agree to replace it if you fuck it up. lmk.

+T to you Tim for saving his ass

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

Yo, you can replace the batteries your self really easy.  If you need help come up her to breck one day and I'll help, or we can wire it for an external.

[Dutchman1101]

Yo, you can replace the batteries your self really easy.  If you need help come up her to breck one day and I'll help, or we can wire it for an external.

+T for the offer Adam, but I just had them replaced by Doug not to long ago so I'm just going to send it back to him. I'm also going to have him check everything else while he has it.

Edit: Can you wire them to take external power? I've never heard of that. I dont see why not

[Dutchman1101]

For sure! I just had them replaced by him in April or May of last year so I'm sure he'll be cool about it. This just pisses me off becuase I have a ton of good shows coming up with no preamp I guess I'll have to see what the pre's are like in the stock 671

you don't want to use the stock pre in the 671.  you can borrow my t+ ua5 if you pay for shipping both ways and agree to replace it if you fuck it up. lmk.

PM sent! +T!

[thegreatgumbino]

Yo, you can replace the batteries your self really easy.  If you need help come up her to breck one day and I'll help, or we can wire it for an external.

Edit: Can you wire them to take external power? I've never heard of that. I dont see why not

I've never heard of being able to do this.  The only drawback I could see is that Doug used these batteries for their low noise, correct?  So using a lion or similar may introduce some unwanted noise?

[Chuck]

Gee Harrison, you have had your share of troubles lately. +T for the troubles. Before sending it out to Doug, you should test it. Do you have a Volt Ohm Meter?

[Dutchman1101]

Gee Harrison, you have had your share of troubles lately. +T for the troubles. Before sending it out to Doug, you should test it. Do you have a Volt Ohm Meter?

Tell me about it Chuck. +T backatcha. Nothing has been going right lately. I don't have voltmeter. I just did a test and the levels dropped again so I'm definitely calling Doug Tomorrow.

Harrison

[Dutchman1101]

I just talked to Mr. Oade and he said he has never heard of that B4 and he thinks it is the 671. He has heard of someone else having that problem with the 671. Something to do with the gain knob. He said to do a test with the 671 from a stereo or something and see if it happens. Here's hoping it's something easy like that.

[Chuck]

Harrison:

Do yourself a favour. Go to Radio Shack right now. Get the cheapest analog Volt Ohm meter they have. It's less than $15. Run your rig until you experience a problem... Then,  measure the voltage across PINS 1 and 2 on the XLR outputs of the M148. PIN 1 negative, PIN 2 positive. If the voltage is close to 48, like 47- 52v, the m148 is not the problem. Hell, I have a VOM I can give you. I think you should have one.

Chuck

[Dutchman1101]

Harrison:

Do yourself a favour. Go to Radio Shack right now. Get the cheapest analog Volt Ohm meter they have. It's less than $15. Run your rig until you experience a problem... Then,  measure the voltage across PINS 1 and 2 on the XLR outputs of the M148. PIN 1 negative, PIN 2 positive. If the voltage is close to 48, like 47- 52v, the m148 is not the problem. Hell, I have a VOM I can give you. I think you should have one.

Chuck

That's probably not a bad idea Chuck. +T for the advice.

Let me know what you guys think about this. I guess I kind of forgot to mention this. As a matter of fact I forgot until I talked to Doug this morning. When the levels dropped I turned the gain knob about from maybe 4 to 5 and the levels went somewhat back to normal. That kind of sounds like something with the 671 but I'm not sure. Doug was saying that the person that had a similar problem had something go wrong with the contact points or something like that with the gain knob. I'll do some tests and let you guys know what I find.

Harrison

[Chuck]

I re-read my post and want to correct it by saying, measure the voltage across PINS 1 & 2 on the microphone side, not the m148 output. What you will be doing is measuring the total voltage of the batteries. If the voltage is low, the batteries are the problem.

Let us know what you find out.

Chuck

[terrapinj]

That's probably not a bad idea Chuck. +T for the advice.

Let me know what you guys think about this. I guess I kind of forgot to mention this. As a matter of fact I forgot until I talked to Doug this morning. When the levels dropped I turned the gain knob about from maybe 4 to 5 and the levels went somewhat back to normal. That kind of sounds like something with the 671 but I'm not sure. Doug was saying that the person that had a similar problem had something go wrong with the contact points or something like that with the gain knob. I'll do some tests and let you guys know what I find.

Harrison

i don't know if that would be conclusive either way. you could have just as easily added enough gain with the 671 to correct for the drop from the m148(if thats the problem). the fact that the drop happens towards the end of the show each time is what made me think it was battery related, but it could be a coincidence as well.

how much gain are you generally adding with the 671? sounded like your levels were dropping ~10db or so are you even adding this much gain with the 671?

[Dutchman1101]

That's probably not a bad idea Chuck. +T for the advice.

Let me know what you guys think about this. I guess I kind of forgot to mention this. As a matter of fact I forgot until I talked to Doug this morning. When the levels dropped I turned the gain knob about from maybe 4 to 5 and the levels went somewhat back to normal. That kind of sounds like something with the 671 but I'm not sure. Doug was saying that the person that had a similar problem had something go wrong with the contact points or something like that with the gain knob. I'll do some tests and let you guys know what I find.

Harrison

i don't know if that would be conclusive either way. you could have just as easily added enough gain with the 671 to correct for the drop from the m148(if thats the problem). the fact that the drop happens towards the end of the show each time is what made me think it was battery related, but it could be a coincidence as well.

how much gain are you generally adding with the 671? sounded like your levels were dropping ~10db or so are you even adding this much gain with the 671?

Well looking back to get the levels back somewhat to normal I really did not add that much gain. Like I said I went from 4 to 5 maybe 5 1/2 on the wheel. The levels were peaking at 12db on the 671 and when I adjusted the gain knob they went back to peaking at around 1 to 2 db. I haven’t had the 671 that long but I don’t think adjusting it 1 to 1 1/2 notches on the wheel should add that much gain causing me to believe now there might be something wrong with the 671. I'll keep you guys posted. I'm going to get a voltmeter tonight I think just to make sure.

Harrison

[sygdwm]

fwiw, the knob doesnt add gain it is an attenuator. i think.

[Dutchman1101]

fwiw, the knob doesnt add gain it is an attenuator. i think.

You are correct. I was using the wrong lingo I guess.

[Chuck]

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/subcat.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@1244533927.1172516711@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjaddkfdlfhlecefecemldffidfjg.0&vertical=TOOL&cat=Electrical+Shop&subcat=Multi-Meters%2C+Testers+%26+Accessories

I searched Sears and mulitmeter and found one on sale for $13. If you have a Sears close, the digital one on top should do you just fine.

[Dutchman1101]

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/subcat.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@1244533927.1172516711@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccjaddkfdlfhlecefecemldffidfjg.0&vertical=TOOL&cat=Electrical+Shop&subcat=Multi-Meters%2C+Testers+%26+Accessories

I searched Sears and mulitmeter and found one on sale for $13. If you have a Sears close, the digital one on top should do you just fine.

Thanks Chuck! I do have a Sears fairly close by. I think I'll do that. I'll pick up a set of RCA's and do some tests tonight.

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

Yo, you can replace the batteries your self really easy.  If you need help come up her to breck one day and I'll help, or we can wire it for an external.

Edit: Can you wire them to take external power? I've never heard of that. I dont see why not

I've never heard of being able to do this.  The only drawback I could see is that Doug used these batteries for their low noise, correct?  So using a lion or similar may introduce some unwanted noise?

If you remove the internal battery, and wire the battery output to the charger input, you then have an external solution.  All this does is make the external charger input into a terminal for what ever battery you want to hook up.  Add the same size conector as your charger and your ready to go.

[sygdwm]

Yo, you can replace the batteries your self really easy.  If you need help come up her to breck one day and I'll help, or we can wire it for an external.

Edit: Can you wire them to take external power? I've never heard of that. I dont see why not

I've never heard of being able to do this.  The only drawback I could see is that Doug used these batteries for their low noise, correct?  So using a lion or similar may introduce some unwanted noise?

If you remove the internal battery, and wire the battery output to the charger input, you then have an external solution.  All this does is make the external charger input into a terminal for what ever battery you want to hook up.  Add the same size conector as your charger and your ready to go.

you make that sound WAY easier than it probably is. first, there are 8 batts in there. also, what kind of battery would give you 48v externally?

/devils advovate

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

Well, there are lion packs made that do supply 48v, also when batteries are wired in series the voltage is added, so in this way you could wire 4, 12v cells in seris to reach 48v, or any derivative of these numbers.  Of course you would not need to use huge cells, just many small ones.

[Chuck]

I have thought making a phantom power supply using (5) 9.6 v NiMH batteries. I talked to Doug about it and he said the lead was better, but if you built it right, the NiMH would be good also.

[sygdwm]

so, even if it could be done, it would probably screw with the sound and/or noise floor.

/sucks as i gaze at a dead m148 waiting for new sla's that have been on backorder for 2 weeks. 

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

It can be done and if the battery provides consistent voltage"clean power" it sould be just fine.

[Dutchman1101]

I sent you a PM Chuck.

[Chuck]

I sent you a PM Chuck.

I am trying to respond, but I am having problems with the site, or possibly my internet connection this morning...

[keepongoin]

I sent you a PM Chuck.

I am trying to respond, but I am having problems with the site, or possibly my internet connection this morning...

there are quite a few site issues yesterday/today.

[Dutchman1101]

I sent you a PM Chuck.

I am trying to respond, but I am having problems with the site, or possibly my internet connection this morning...

I'm having some problems too Chuck. I figured out the volt meter though. I left the 148 on last night for about 4 hours. The batteries were fairly drianed too. As a matter of fact it got down to just the red light which means it's pretty drained. It was running at 50.2 volts for the first 2 hours. The greean light was still coming on. It started to go down slowly after that. It held steady at 48.2volts for about another hour and a half or so. It only dipped below 48volts after the red light was the only light on the battery tester and that was about an hour into that. Hope that make sense

I did some tests on the 671 and had no level drops what so ever. I did like 11 hours worth of tests to and nothing happened. I'm stumped. I guess I'll try again tonight doing 148>671 and see what happens.

Harrison

[Kindguy]

Strange

[sygdwm]

i know this sounds stupid, but have you swapped interconnects? sounds like the brick is fine.

[Dutchman1101]

i know this sounds stupid, but have you swapped interconnects? sounds like the brick is fine.

You know that's probably not a bad idea but the volume drop was on both channels at the same time so I don't think it's the interconnects. It's probably not a bad idea to test it though.

[Chuck]

You are running m148 (XLR out) into the Line in (RCA) jacks on the 671, right?
Keep testing, you will figure out what is going on.
BTW, now that you have the VOM, you can test the batteries in the 671 too.
I could not survive without a Volt Ohm Meter. You can check your AC in the house (be careful ) You can check your car battery too. Eventually, you will be checking resistance and after that, you can figure out how to check current draw.

FWIW, you can check continuity in your cables by setting that particular meter on the 200 ohm setting. Touch the probes to coorisponding sides of the cable ground. If it reads anything other than 1  ., there is conectivity. Do the same for the other connectors on the cable. SOme multimeters actually give you an audible signal when there is conectivity. That meter does not. You just have to look at the screen to see what is happening. When I check connectivity, I move the cable around, to see if there is a point where the connectivity is broken. It is more likely that there is a short or a near short in a cable. To determine that, check the ground against all of the other conductors. If you get a reading other than 1  ., than you have a short, and the cable is bad.

[Dutchman1101]

You are running m148 (XLR out) into the Line in (RCA) jacks on the 671, right?
Keep testing, you will figure out what is going on.
BTW, now that you have the VOM, you can test the batteries in the 671 too.
I could not survive without a Volt Ohm Meter. You can check your AC in the house (be careful ) You can check your car battery too. Eventually, you will be checking resistance and after that, you can figure out how to check current draw.

FWIW, you can check continuity in your cables by setting that particular meter on the 200 ohm setting. Touch the probes to coorisponding sides of the cable ground. If it reads anything other than 1  ., there is conectivity. Do the same for the other connectors on the cable. SOme multimeters actually give you an audible signal when there is conectivity. That meter does not. You just have to look at the screen to see what is happening. When I check connectivity, I move the cable around, to see if there is a point where the connectivity is broken. It is more likely that there is a short or a near short in a cable. To determine that, check the ground against all of the other conductors. If you get a reading other than 1  ., than you have a short, and the cable is bad.

Yes, XLR>RCA. I'll do another test tonight with the 148>671 to see what happens. I wonder what this is. Doug said again today that he has never heard of the 148 doing this. Has anyone heard of something like this happening? Maybe with other gear?

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

This happens with the sono sax, I think.  I heard somewhere that if the battery is drained it out puts a lower and lower signal.
I also ran another pre that did this but cant remember which one.

[Dutchman1101]

This happens with the sono sax, I think.  I heard somewhere that if the battery is drained it out puts a lower and lower signal.
I also ran another pre that did this but cant remember which one.

That makes sense but the test I did last night confirmed that the 148 was puting out proper voltage. It only dipped down when the batteries got really low. The two shows where the levels dropped the 148 was fully charged. If the levels drop tonight I'll test the voltage.

[marc0789]

Gee Harrison, you have had your share of troubles lately. +T for the troubles. Before sending it out to Doug, you should test it. Do you have a Volt Ohm Meter?

ditto that. unless you left it on for a couple of days and/or deep discharged while operating, these should last a whole lot longer.

[Dutchman1101]

Well guys, I did a test last night with the 148>671 and had no level drops. I'm stumped. I left all the gear in my bag and I closed to see if it was heat related but no level drops. I'll do another one tonight. The one thing I did different this time was I used a different flash card I guess I'll have to see tonight. Rig problems suck!

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

have you tried running a different pre in front of the 671, to see if the problem happens?

[Dutchman1101]

I'm definitely going to try that Adam. My test last night had the levels drop again. I tested the voltage on the 148 and it was at 50.5v so I'm not sure. I then went out of a TV into the 671 and got no level drops. I'm pretty sure it's the 148 at this point but the question is with no voltage drop what is causing this problem? FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Luckily Tim was gracious enough to loan me a UA-5. +T Tim!

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

also have you tested the output signal of the 148, instead of alwaystesting the phantom? I would do that also

[stober]

This happens with the sono sax, I think.  I heard somewhere that if the battery is drained it out puts a lower and lower signal.
I also ran another pre that did this but cant remember which one.

The m248 does this as well.

[Dutchman1101]

also have you tested the output signal of the 148, instead of alwaystesting the phantom? I would do that also

I know this sounds stupid to some of you, but how would you do that?

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

I would feed it a steady input signal such as static or a test tone.  Then measure the output across the same pins,  it should stay steady the intire time as long as the signal is the same.

I may be wrong on this so people feel free to correct me.

[Chuck]

Or, just record test signal directly from the m148 to your HD or another recorder. All you have to do is look at it to see if something is wrong. I have been moding a DMIC-20. After each phase, I go and record 1k test signal and pink noise onto my HD using CuBase. I can look at and analyse the output at another time.

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

Thing is you have to take the 671 out of the equation to really be able to tell if it is the 671 or the 148.  If I had a different recorder, I would use that.

[dnsacks]

if you still have the ua5, you could feed the 148 to the ua5 and use the 671 (or something else) to capture the ua5's digital signal.  even if otherwise screwed up, the 671 wouldn't show a level drop on its digital in.

[Dutchman1101]

Well boys it is the 671 causing the problem. I did a test today that Doug and I discussed last week. Doug and I both felt a little stupid for not coming up with this before. Basically what I did was I took a signal from my TV and got where the levels were. I then hooked the 671 up to the 148 and let it record. I had the levels drop. I then hooked the TV back up while the 671 was still in record mode and the levels did not come back. I then hooked it back up the m148 and again no levels. I turned off the 671 while letting the m148 continue to run. I turned the 671 on again and hooked it back up to the 148 and it was getting levels again. So basically the 671 is the problem. Thanks for all the suggestions and concern guys. Hopefully Marantz can get this thing fixed/replaced quickly

[Chuck]

Glad to hear you figured it out, but sorry to hear that your 671 shit the bed. +T to you again for all the troubles...

[Dutchman1101]

Glad to hear you figured it out, but sorry to hear that your 671 shit the bed. +T to you again for all the troubles...

Thanks again for all the help Chuck. +T backatcha. If it was the 148 Doug said he would put a rush on it and get it back to me. Who knows how long Marantz is going to take. What do you guys think? Is it a Doug thing or a Marantz thing? Doug was saying I have to send it back to Marantz. To be honest I'd just like a new one. Paying close to $900 I really don't want a unit that has failed me once you know. I guess I'll have to call Marantz tomorrow

[terrapinj]

Glad to hear you figured it out, but sorry to hear that your 671 shit the bed. +T to you again for all the troubles...

Thanks again for all the help Chuck. +T backatcha. If it was the 148 Doug said he would put a rush on it and get it back to me. Who knows how long Marantz is going to take. What do you guys think? Is it a Doug thing or a Marantz thing? Doug was saying I have to send it back to Marantz. To be honest I'd just like a new one. Paying close to $900 I really don't want a unit that has failed me once you know. I guess I'll have to call Marantz tomorrow

i've got a jb3 sitting around collecting dust you are more than welcome to use as long as you need in the meantime. shoot me a PM if you need a recorder

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

Glad to hear you figured it out, but sorry to hear that your 671 shit the bed. +T to you again for all the troubles...

Thanks again for all the help Chuck. +T backatcha. If it was the 148 Doug said he would put a rush on it and get it back to me. Who knows how long Marantz is going to take. What do you guys think? Is it a Doug thing or a Marantz thing? Doug was saying I have to send it back to Marantz. To be honest I'd just like a new one. Paying close to $900 I really don't want a unit that has failed me once you know. I guess I'll have to call Marantz tomorrow

Usually in these kind of situations the company would decide what they are goning to replace or just fix.  I helps to say you'd like it replaced, but I would be suprised if a company as large as marantz is going to just do that.

[Kindguy]

At least you know the prob.

Sorry. T+

[mmedley.]

I am not sure what you are using to power, but I know for a fact that spreadheadtom had issues when running off the Wally World 9V's. He tried 3 or 4 different ones and none of them worked, even though they had previously without incident. I would check your power solution for the 671.

[sygdwm]

I am not sure what you are using to power, but I know for a fact that spreadheadtom had issues when running off the Wally World 9V's. He tried 3 or 4 different ones and none of them worked, even though they had previously without incident. I would check your power solution for the 671.

ill second this. i cannot use wally dvd batts for either of my 671's. they never worked for me.

[Dutchman1101]

I am not sure what you are using to power, but I know for a fact that spreadheadtom had issues when running off the Wally World 9V's. He tried 3 or 4 different ones and none of them worked, even though they had previously without incident. I would check your power solution for the 671.

ill second this. i cannot use wally dvd batts for either of my 671's. they never worked for me.

I've done both AA's and the DVD batts and have had no power issues other then the 2700mah batts being too big. I sent it to Marantz today. They said they have a 2 to 4 day turnaround time.

Harrison

[georgeh]

just curious, 2 to 4 day for a new one, or a fix?

[Dutchman1101]

just curious, 2 to 4 day for a new one, or a fix?

A fix.

[sygdwm]

just curious, 2 to 4 day for a new one, or a fix?

A fix.

did they diagnose it for you?

[Dutchman1101]

just curious, 2 to 4 day for a new one, or a fix?

A fix.

did they diagnose it for you?

Not yet. I just sent it yesterday. I sent it overnight though so I expect to get a call in the next day or two. Doug was saying they’ll probably just replace the whole pc board because they won’t be able to pinpoint it very easily.

[mhibbs]

The m248 does this as well.

Damn right it does...mine did it last night at the Truckers.  I raised the gain and was able to get through the end of the show.  Haven't listened to it yet to see how bad it sounds...I'm guessing bad.

FWIW, I've had my 148 do it as well although for whatever reason w/ the 148 it seems to be more sudden.  It was definitely the batteries in my case though...your issue is obviously different. 


Mitch