Author Topic: V3/Oade-warm-mod-UA5 comparison (Read 40720 times)

spott · « **on:** November 21, 2003, 06:24:36 PM »

Not sure if this has been posted.... interesting, very interesting

-------------------------

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=668

Hillbilly IDOL
2003-11-20
Cleveland, OH - Barking Spider Tavern

Taper: Brian Skalinder
Location: Center, 15' back, 7' up, clamped to and dropped down from cieling beam
Config: DIN (20cm, 90º)
Sources: Schoeps MK4/KC5/CMC6 Denecke PS-2 > Lunatec V3 (16-bit/44.1k) > Sony D100
> W-Mod UA-5 (16-bit/44.1k) > Nomad JukeBox 3
Conversion: Sony D7 > Waveterminal 2496 > Cool Edit 2000 > CD-Wave (DAT only)

SOURCE A

01. Better Off Believing
02. Blue And Lonesome
03. Blue Showing Through
04. I Don't Think About You Anymore

SOURCE B

05. Better Off Believing
06. Blue And Lonesome
07. Blue Showing Through
08. I Don't Think About You Anymore

NOTES:

- Hosa XLR splitters after PS-2
- Canare / Neutrik interconnects between mics and PS-2, splitter and V3/UA-5
- Tracked with CD-Wave
- Fades with Cool Edit 2000
- V3 at ~48dB gain
- UA-5 at ~4:00 gain

I'll be happy to reveal which source is which after receiving feedback from listeners.

The Barking Spider is a small bar with a bit of an awkward layout for bands. The left stack and all the monitors are up against the same wall. Drums are unamplified. Right stack is on an angle facing in towards the rest of the room. Since it's such a small place, there isn't a need for massive reinforcement from the PA, so the broad horizontal spread of the monitors and far-right drum placement makes for some serious instrument placement within the recording space. Looks something like this (only looks correct if viewed as a mono-space font):

Banjo
Mando
Acoustic Guitar Fiddle Accordion
PA Pedal Steel Acoustic Guitar Upright Bass Acoustic Guitar Piano

Drums
\P
\A

ME

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2003, 06:35:52 PM »

Yup, in the Kickdown and Pre/ADC sections, and over at Oade. Figured posting here was overkill, but...what the heck! Thanks, Spott...can't hurt.

I'm really looking forward to people's feedback on this blind source comparison.

Tim · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2003, 06:37:43 PM »

I'm downloading right now and warming up the B&W's!

BCostigan · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2003, 06:49:34 PM »

Like I posted in the kick down section......I'm on this too!! Can't wait to do some critical listening!

Brian · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2003, 06:57:19 PM »

I'm all over this one as well. Can't wait to hear it! although i'm thinking the most people will be able to detect that shempz>v3 sound we all know. what does everybody else think?

BCostigan · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2003, 06:59:27 PM »

I'm hoping that I guess the ua-5 is the V3!

I imagine we'll be able to tell but we'll soon know for sure.

Brian · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2003, 07:06:09 PM »

Quote from: BCostigan on November 21, 2003, 06:59:27 PM

I'm hoping that I guess the ua-5 is the V3!

hehe. mee to! my money is on that w-mod will give the V3 a run for the money

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2003, 08:04:44 PM »

mike, we need a fluffing smiley

zhianosatch · « **Reply #8 on:** November 21, 2003, 08:10:08 PM »

too much phluph!

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2003, 07:41:28 AM »

Quote from: zhianosatch on November 21, 2003, 08:10:08 PM

too much phluph!

that-a-boy...

and can anyone give me a quick snail mail possibly so i can get in on the phun???that would be much appreciated???

thanks,
bean

RobC · « **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2003, 07:58:46 AM »

from my 1st listen, only on headphones, I think the UA-5 gives the V3 a run for the money, I can't tell for sure which is which, this may change later today when I can listen through some speakers with some volume.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2003, 01:28:49 PM »

Let's hear it, guys...28 downloads so far, and I only announced the torrent here and at Oade, and the Oade's board is slow these days. How about it...more feedback and guesses as to which is which?

Tim · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2003, 01:30:49 PM »

I'm really, really interested to hear what everyone else thinks... come on ya'll I typed up a review, you can too!

RobC · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2003, 02:53:26 PM »

I sent Brian what I thought via IM and my guess of which was which (and I was wrong)

Brian · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2003, 03:11:48 PM »

here's my quick guess after one listen to spark some interest

Source A = V3
Source B = W-mod UA5

EDIT: I guess i should tell you my reason. Pretty much based on the transparancy factor of the V3. I think there is more room sound IMO in source A. Source B seems a little colored (warm) on the low hence my guess as the UA5.

just what it seems like to my ears after one listen...on not that great of a playback either FWIW.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2003, 03:31:54 PM »

come on skalinder

I haven't even listened to it and I'm dying in suspense over here.

Tim · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2003, 03:51:05 PM »

which did you prefer though?

Brian · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2003, 03:53:34 PM »

Source B definitely. i liked the warmer coloration to it. knocked out some of the bar sound to my ears.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2003, 03:56:17 PM »

Quote from: Schwilly on November 22, 2003, 03:31:54 PM

come on skalinder
I haven't even listened to it and I'm dying in suspense over here.

Nothing doing, Schwilly - not til you give it a listen and post your feedback.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2003, 04:09:10 PM »

well I gave this thread a listen and I say source B is the V3

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2003, 04:11:17 PM »

ok dammit, i'll give it a listen

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2003, 04:17:09 PM »

Quote from: Schwilly on November 22, 2003, 04:09:10 PM

well I gave this thread a listen and I say source B is the V3

Nice try, Schwilly.

You need a CDR for this, or are you able to d/l? If you need a disc, ask one of these guys (I'm sure they'll help out), I'm unable to burn for you til I get back home from vacation.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2003, 04:29:54 PM »

nope, I'm all over it, already 14% done. Great seed ya got thur

BCostigan · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2003, 06:31:18 PM »

In this comp I definately prefer source B. I'd love to hear this same comp with a loud/bassy band because I think I'd prefer source A in that situation. As it stands......source B all the way.

cpclark · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2003, 06:43:16 PM »

im on this, only 23% in 12 minuts thats pretty fast, ill be sure to give my vote as soon as its done, about 35 min if i keep this speed up. on another note, i just opened the phish 2/26/97 torrent, 15% done in 15 min, 226kb/sec. d/l speed, wow is all i have to say

cpclark · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2003, 09:24:30 PM »

while this is fresh in my mind, i listened to the first track of each, one after the other, and i must say that source A is a little too bright, nice definition of the mando and banjo, but the female voice is a little harsh and overpowering at times, it lacked a little bass def. okay, for source B, the mando and banjo dont have as much spacing as in A, and are a little quieter than in A, but the bass is much more defined and is all around a little bit more even all the way around the spectrum. A lacked mid's and lows, and as the others said, i would liike to hear this comp at a louder show in a bigger venue, like a moe. or phish or something. i preffered B over A in this comp, but i think that a louder show in a bigger venue might change the perspective here a bit. im thinking that A is the V3 and B is the ua-5, but who knows, tell us which is which skalinder, the suspense is killing me
-chris

plucks · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2003, 09:30:43 PM »

Just out of curiosity, as this was an A-D converter test, what do you think your opinions would be if it was the pre/a-d convert showdown? Granted no one knows for sure which is which....
+T Brian
How bout a full throtle v3/ua-5 test?

Phil

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2003, 09:35:24 PM »

i suck, the only difference I can hear is the banjo stands out more in source B. This is, of course, listening to them on my sony mdr-v300 headphones

cpclark · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2003, 09:36:58 PM »

you gotta listen on a home stereo, there will be some subtle differences for sure

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #29 on:** November 22, 2003, 11:41:03 PM »

Quote from: plucks on November 22, 2003, 09:30:43 PM

Just out of curiosity, as this was an A-D converter test...[snip]
How bout a full throtle v3/ua-5 test?

This was a combined pre/ADC comp. Check the Kickdown forum for the info file. I powered the mics with my PS-2 and split the signal post-PS-2 to each box, running through pre/ADC on each unit individually. However, no phantom from either box, but...I'm guessing we'd all be hard-pressed to hear the differences in phantom. But maybe not?

FWIW, while I *will* do another comp at a louder, rock, bass-heavier show, something more typical to most tapers' usage. I doubt I'll do any strictly pre/pre or ADC/ADC comps as [a] most people using these devices are looking for single-box solutions, there's really no way to avoid the analog input stages to do a pure ADC comp, and [c] there's no way of bypassing the UA-5 pre to do a pure pre comp.

cpclark · « **Reply #30 on:** November 22, 2003, 11:44:51 PM »

the real question is, which is source A and B, come on brian, im dieing to know

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #31 on:** November 23, 2003, 12:45:14 AM »

die die die my darling

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #32 on:** November 23, 2003, 01:01:48 AM »

Quote from: Schwilly on November 23, 2003, 12:45:14 AM

die die die my darling

There are still a couple folks who said they'd chime in and haven't, Schwilly. Check your PM.

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #33 on:** November 23, 2003, 01:15:36 AM »

didn't mean that towards you, just showing my love for clarky

cpclark · « **Reply #34 on:** November 23, 2003, 01:44:16 AM »

Quote from: Schwilly on November 23, 2003, 01:15:36 AM

didn't mean that towards you, just showing my love for clarky

aw thanks schwilly, but im anxious to know what is what, i sent you that pm brian giving you my thoughts

chuckcage · « **Reply #35 on:** November 23, 2003, 01:46:14 AM »

I'm grabbing this now... I've thought maybe a UA-5 might be in my future...

Chuck

Kindguy · « **Reply #36 on:** November 23, 2003, 02:58:45 PM »

I'm on dial up so I'll have to take y'alls words on it.

What I'm curious about is, Once we find out what source is correct. Can you justify spending 800+ more for the V3 over the UA-5?

What is a new V3 going for these days?

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #37 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:21:06 PM »

Quote from: kindguy on November 23, 2003, 02:58:45 PM

What I'm curious about is, Once we find out what source is correct. Can you justify spending 800+ more for the V3 over the UA-5?

Of course, it has more/better blinking lights.

cpclark · « **Reply #38 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:22:58 PM »

i know what A and B are and you dont, ha ha ha

chuckcage · « **Reply #39 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:25:18 PM »

Wow -- both these sources sound really great. B seems to have a little more "depth" than A, and B also seems to have a little smoother response over all. Though I prefer B a little bit, I'd be happy listening to either of these!

Chuck

cpclark · « **Reply #40 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:29:10 PM »

chuck-its up to skalinder before i tell the group what they are

Brian · « **Reply #41 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:30:09 PM »

Quote from: cpclark on November 23, 2003, 03:22:58 PM

i know what A and B are and you dont, ha ha ha

Welcome to team "Knows the Answer"

InfiniteOhms · « **Reply #42 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:36:43 PM »

Quote from: cpclark on November 23, 2003, 03:22:58 PM

i know what A and B are and you dont, ha ha ha

Damn it ... i'v known since Yesterday at 06:53:58pm .... but i did'nt even once shove it in someones face .... and now you'v beat me to it

cpclark · « **Reply #43 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:37:46 PM »

Quote from: InfiniteOhms on November 23, 2003, 03:36:43 PM

Quote from: cpclark on November 23, 2003, 03:22:58 PM
i know what A and B are and you dont, ha ha ha

Damn it ... i'v known since Yesterday at 06:53:58pm .... but i did'nt even once shove it in someones face .... and now you'v beat me to it

i couldnt resist, i knew last night, but didnt bust it out til today, welcom to team knows the answers infiniteohms

RobC · « **Reply #44 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:38:05 PM »

of the people that know the answer, how many guessed right?

I know I was wrong.

cpclark · « **Reply #45 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:39:10 PM »

skalinder told me i was only the second one that was right, in all your faces

cpclark · « **Reply #46 on:** November 23, 2003, 03:39:37 PM »

any grace phlupher like myself would know the answer

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #47 on:** November 23, 2003, 04:09:45 PM »

i was wrong as well

BCostigan · « **Reply #48 on:** November 23, 2003, 06:00:11 PM »

I guessed right

Phil · « **Reply #49 on:** November 23, 2003, 06:26:09 PM »

I'm guessing source A= V3 B= w-mod. With the bluegrass I prefer source B, but would like to hear a hard rock comp. or a akg 481 comp... Source B sounds like source A with some eq taking a slight edge off.. IMO.

chuckcage · « **Reply #50 on:** November 23, 2003, 06:44:13 PM »

This reminds me of one time when I had a "beer tasting" party for all the people I knew who were beer snobs. It was shameful how many "I don't drink cheap beer" types discovered they were buying a label...

Chuck

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #51 on:** November 23, 2003, 06:52:04 PM »

If you don't want to know...don't read further...
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Well, I think it's probably easy enough for people to figure out now based on some of the posts here. Those that have contacted me obviously know. More people guessed incorrectly, than correctly, by a significant margin. And just about everyone preferred the wmod-UA5 source. How about that wmod-UA5!!

I'll do another one of these in a larger venue, with a louder, bass-heavier rock band to see if the results hold. Should be fun!

The answer:

A = V3
B = wmod-UA5

Kindguy · « **Reply #52 on:** November 23, 2003, 07:49:20 PM »

T+ Brian. Maybe I can get Bush's V3 & do some 480 Comp's at the X-mas Jam.

RobC · « **Reply #53 on:** November 23, 2003, 07:59:38 PM »

I'm going to ask Santa for a Warm mod. UA-5
but I will probably only get coal

Brian · « **Reply #54 on:** November 23, 2003, 08:01:44 PM »

***SHAMELESS PHLUPHING***

For now, w-mod UA5 owns V3's face!

Chalk one up for Team W-mod UA5!

flame on...

Brian

Sterling · « **Reply #55 on:** November 23, 2003, 08:21:07 PM »

;DYou guys all rock...thanks for the info and the laughs...my UA5 should be hear from Oade on tuesday

Great work on the comparison and the feedback guys!

Sterling

Brian · « **Reply #56 on:** November 23, 2003, 08:24:53 PM »

hehehe...so does this make the resale value of the w-mod UA5 higher than the original retail price???

I'll sell mine for $800 OBO

Brian

PS: for the crazies who would pay that....i'm not actually selling mine

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #57 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:18:12 AM »

Alright, so not very scientific, all this, but thought you all might be interested in some numbers. The in/correct guesses were closer than I thought. FWIW...

11 - total respondents

05 - guessed incorrectly
04 - guessed correctly
02 - couldn't tell the difference

06 - preferred wmod-UA5
05 - did not express a preference

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #58 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:33:13 AM »

thanx for keeping a score card skalinder, very interesting

Tim · « **Reply #59 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:08:32 AM »

:fullmoon:

w-mod ua5 whips the ass of the V3, woulda thunk it?

Okay so it wasn't that bad. The V3 captured what was there in the room and in this instance what was in the room didn't sound all that great.

I don't think this test should be viewed as a knock on the V3 as much as a proving how good the mod ua5's really can sound. I'd never heard a ua5 before this, I was pleasantly suprised.

I think the next step then is p-mod v. v3 and minime v. w.mod..

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #60 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:20:19 AM »

Quote from: Tim on November 24, 2003, 02:08:32 AM

The V3 captured what was there in the room and in this instance what was in the room didn't sound all that great.

I don't think this test should be viewed as a knock on the V3 as much as a proving how good the mod ua5's really can sound.

Agreed!

Quote

I think the next step then is p-mod v. v3 and minime v. w.mod.

I plan on repeating this comp in a bigger venue with a louder, bass-heavier rock band - curious to see the results, then.

If Jesse Scott and I can ever hook up in Cleveland, we'll do w w-mod v. p-mod, too. After that, who knows...

Tim · « **Reply #61 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:24:28 AM »

thanks again Brian

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #62 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:52:19 AM »

alright, this might sound st00pid, but i thought the wmod was supposed to be like a v3 and the pmod was more like a mme, or is this backwards???me gots ta do a v3 v. wmod/pmod w/ 481's....brian, wanna borrow those, ill send em yer way...

:ofor real

Joe w. · « **Reply #63 on:** November 24, 2003, 08:05:45 AM »

i dunno bean. I think it is the other way around. That is what I was told when i bought mine. the names would suggest the same thing as an apogee is 'warmer' than the grace boxes.

wrangler_n_space · « **Reply #64 on:** November 24, 2003, 09:17:27 AM »

So who wants to trade their v3 for my Wmod?

I like blinking lights.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #65 on:** November 24, 2003, 09:23:32 AM »

Quote from: Joe w. on November 24, 2003, 08:05:45 AM

i dunno bean. I think it is the other way around. That is what I was told when i bought mine. the names would suggest the same thing as an apogee is 'warmer' than the grace boxes.

thats what i was thinkin too, but i recall someone saying diff,i dunno, i should check the archives(skalinder would be proud

)thanks joe

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #66 on:** November 24, 2003, 09:45:01 AM »

Yeah, Bean, I too have been on and off confused about which mod turns the sound towards Grace/Apogee. I spoke with Jim Oade when I sent mine in to be modded and he said warm mod is supposed to be Grace-like, presence mod is supposed to be Apogee-like.

marc0789 · « **Reply #67 on:** November 24, 2003, 10:07:14 AM »

Marc laughs.

dmonterisi · « **Reply #68 on:** November 24, 2003, 10:10:03 AM »

Quote from: marc0789 on November 24, 2003, 10:07:14 AM

Marc laughs.

turnabout is fair play, we've been laughing at you for months!

i haven't listened to the comp, but it sounds to me like it verified what most people think of the v3, that it is very transparent, and transparency doesn't always translate into the best tape for a given situation. I'm sticking with mine, but maybe now there will be a flood of v3's to the yard sale.

marc0789 · « **Reply #69 on:** November 24, 2003, 10:33:24 AM »

....it's the two boxes for one theory. Never works. See dual well cassette decks and the ill-fated Tascam 302. Too much shit in one container to do it all. However, it sounds like Doug and the UA-5 folks have maybe accomplished quite a feat....for 500 buckos?!

dmonterisi · « **Reply #70 on:** November 24, 2003, 10:40:25 AM »

Quote from: marc0789 on November 24, 2003, 10:33:24 AM

....it's the two boxes for one theory. Never works. See dual well cassette decks and the ill-fated Tascam 302. Too much shit in one container to do it all. However, it sounds like Doug and the UA-5 folks have maybe accomplished quite a feat....for 500 buckos?!

how does skalinder's test demonstrate that you can't put both of these in one box? certainly you can always have better components separately, and i don't think people have ever claimed the v3 is better than say v2>ad2k, especially at 24bit. what the comp demonstrated is this, and only this: that for the band/PA/room being taped, the wmodua5/mk4 combo was preferred by more listeners than the v3/mk4 combo. that's it. there are way too many variables in the equation to extrapolate such broad conclusions. your specious reasoning does not support your truncated analysis.

Joe w. · « **Reply #71 on:** November 24, 2003, 10:43:18 AM »

Quote

your specious reasoning does not support your truncated analysis.

sounds like you put on your fancy pants this morning.

marc0789 · « **Reply #72 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:05:44 AM »

don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say Brian's test proved anything of the kind. That's what I think after running a v3, mme and even 1k as a onebox. I feel the shortcoming of the mme is the loose pre, and the shortcoming of the v3 is *not* the preamp, but thin sounding punchless dither. I haven't heard it, but opinions seem slanted toward the ua5 having done a nice job in one box, with Doug's assistance, which means a whole lot.

creekfreak · « **Reply #73 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:37:25 AM »

I love how everyone is ready to trade their V3 in for a UA-5 after one comp tape that didn't even allow you to listen to the same song going through different sources....you guys kill me

marc0789 · « **Reply #74 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:40:05 AM »

not the same song? That's not too helpful.

creekfreak · « **Reply #75 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:41:43 AM »

I stand corrected, I read the first post wrong, it is the same songs....my bad

Tim · « **Reply #76 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:09:30 PM »

Quote from: creekfreak on November 24, 2003, 11:37:25 AM

I love how everyone is ready to trade their V3 in for a UA-5 after one comp tape that didn't even allow you to listen to the same song going through different sources....you guys kill me

is there any way you can be more wrong?

Tim · « **Reply #77 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:11:48 PM »

Why don't you listen to it Creek? You're the biggest V3 fluffer around here, perhpas this will show it's not the end al /be all for every taping situation. As I and many others have been saying for months, no doubt that it's a sweet box in the right situation but I can't imagine having it as my only option.

Kindguy · « **Reply #78 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:15:13 PM »

I don't think this comp proves the UA-5 blows away the V3.

But I do think it proves the Warm UA-5 is a real piece of taping gear.

I've known it & I love my 480> Warm UA-5 combo.

Just seems to me the folks running the GA bricks, V3, MMe ect look at the UA-5 as junk they know nothing about. I actually had a jerk at Gainesville panic tell me to get a real pre/ad combo.

My wife heard this & told him to get a real Rolex he was wearing a fake. (her whole family for generations are jewelers)

Kindguy · « **Reply #79 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:17:56 PM »

Quote

My wife heard this & told him to get a real Rolex he was wearing a fake. (her whole family for generations are jewelers)

someone here may be this guy?

marc0789 · « **Reply #80 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:18:47 PM »

I've still never heard an UA-5 tape and would like to. Especially a warm mod, after hearing the comments here.

creekfreak · « **Reply #81 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:19:57 PM »

Quote from: Tim on November 24, 2003, 12:11:48 PM

Why don't you listen to it Creek? You're the biggest V3 fluffer around here, perhpas this will show it's not the end al /be all for every taping situation. As I and many others have been saying for months, no doubt that it's a sweet box in the right situation but I can't imagine having it as my only option.

biggest V3 fluffer? uh? I was just commenting on all the people that now are posting saying that the UA5 owns the V3, etc, that is pure fluffing on the UA5 since it was based on one comp tape. Also, did you real my next post, I read the info wrong. Not sure why you think I am the biggest V3 fluffer, I think the V3 works best with my mics, and unlike many people, I actually ran a mini-me and then a V3 for awhile before making that decision. Not fluff, just my opinion. I don't listen to comp tapes because I don't have time and its not going to make me change my mind.

Tim · « **Reply #82 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:20:04 PM »

I hadn't heard a ua5 tape either, I really don't trade and I only know one guy who has one so I haven't yet picked up any tapes. Now I know it is a quality piece of gear!

Matt Quinn · « **Reply #83 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:27:34 PM »

Quote from: kindguy on November 24, 2003, 12:15:13 PM

I actually had a jerk at Gainesville panic tell me to get a real pre/ad combo.

My wife heard this & told him to get a real Rolex he was wearing a fake. (her whole family for generations are jewelers)

lmfao- +t

dklein · « **Reply #84 on:** November 24, 2003, 12:33:50 PM »

Hey - just catching up on with you guys on this. I burned it this weekend but didn't have a chance to really listen until this morning.
My first impressions from Saturday stuck with me. The 'A' was a little on the harsh side at the top end and to my ear, didn't provide any more detail than the 'B', which I preferred tonally.

I listened two ways - a minute on each back and forth and then an extended listen. In both cases, the preference for 'B' stuck with me.

I'd actually go as far as saying I wouldn't be real happy with 'A' and would want to tone down that brittle quality with some eq. I realize that this only represents one venue, mix and mic placement sample. I also guessed that 'B' was the UA-5, only because it does actually sound 'warmer'. Had the V3 sounded warmer, I would have guessed the other way around. The warm mod is appropriately named.

As listening tests go, I found the crowd noise to be a bother. I'd love to do it again with a really good sounding source.

I'd also love to hear a stock UA-5 against any of the mod'd versions. Sometimes it seems there are lots of folks with blind faith in the Oade stuff. A different sound - that's easy if you start swapping components. A better sound? I need to hear it before agreeing or disagreeing. A/B comparisons count for more than stories and feelings.

Thanks for putting this together Brian.

btw, playback was on a Nak CD player, Naim electronics (active system) and Linn Isobarik speakers. The cd player is admittedly weak.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #85 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:04:02 PM »

Many thanks to those who posted detailed feedback about how these two sources sounded different to their ears. It appears most of us heard the same sonic characteristics, even if we guessed incorrectly which source was which device.

Stay tuned for another comp. As others, I'm curious to hear this comp with a better sounding room/PA/mix/crowd. Loving all the discussion this comp has spurred, though - good stuff (for the most part)!

Now keep it civil, kiddies...

plucks · « **Reply #86 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:06:22 PM »

Has anyone done a v3/ mod ua-5 comp at 24 bit?

Phil

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #87 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:06:51 PM »

Quote from: plucks on November 24, 2003, 01:06:22 PM

Has anyone done a v3/ mod ua-5 comp at 24 bit?

Phil

Wish I could! Would love to hear that one, too.

Brian · « **Reply #88 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:08:23 PM »

Quote from: creekfreak on November 24, 2003, 12:19:57 PM

Quote from: Tim on November 24, 2003, 12:11:48 PM
Why don't you listen to it Creek? You're the biggest V3 fluffer around here, perhpas this will show it's not the end al /be all for every taping situation. As I and many others have been saying for months, no doubt that it's a sweet box in the right situation but I can't imagine having it as my only option.

biggest V3 fluffer? uh? I was just commenting on all the people that now are posting saying that the UA5 owns the V3, etc, that is pure fluffing on the UA5 since it was based on one comp tape. Also, did you real my next post, I read the info wrong. Not sure why you think I am the biggest V3 fluffer, I think the V3 works best with my mics, and unlike many people, I actually ran a mini-me and then a V3 for awhile before making that decision. Not fluff, just my opinion. I don't listen to comp tapes because I don't have time and its not going to make me change my mind.

FWIW I was joking when i said the w-mod ua5 owned the V3. I also said "for now" as well.

the most surprising part about all of this was the fact that some of you guys have never heard any w-mod tapes before. I dunno why, but i find that amazing. I guess you guys all thought it was a piece of crap or something? Hopefully this one test, like others have said, will show that it is a quality piece of recording gear and proves that there is not a thousand dollar difference in quality between it and the V3. Cause you know what? there definitely isn't IMO. Not trying be biased or anything, it's really how i feel.

Brian

EDIT: again thanks to Skalinder for doing this!

Tim · « **Reply #89 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:09:50 PM »

hadn't heard one because, until recently, I didn't know anyone who ran one... I get tapes from my friends, not through trades.

junkbondking · « **Reply #90 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:11:56 PM »

tim if you want a wmod copy of a show, lemme know. you can have any/all of the p&f fillmore run.....

Brian · « **Reply #91 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:12:40 PM »

what about downloading from the archive? plenty of w-mod sources there.

Tim · « **Reply #92 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:16:44 PM »

not something I do, I don't think I've ever downloaded anything from the archive... I have tons of music already.

I will do the occasional bittorrent but that's about it.

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #93 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:17:15 PM »

All this talk makes me want to send my UA5 in for "warming"...

I think that'll be my Holidaze present to myself...

Terry

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #94 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:20:40 PM »

Quote from: twatts on November 24, 2003, 01:17:15 PM

All this talk makes me want to send my UA5 in for "warming"...

Perhaps you should wait to hear a Warm v. Presence (v. stock pre) comp?

Though I don't think you can go wrong with the warm mod - you can always sell it for damn near what you paid and pick up a presence mod if you decide you like it better.

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #95 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:27:26 PM »

Yeah, I was hoping to hear more form S-Mod folks, but there don't seem to many of them around...

Anybody know if Oade will loan me a Warm and/or Pres to try out if I send them my UA5 as collateral???

Terry

Brian · « **Reply #96 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:31:20 PM »

highly doubtful, but hey stranger things have happened...

Craig T · « **Reply #97 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:51:10 PM »

FYI, I did a v3/wmod comparison back in Dec.2002 and distributed it via the Oade Forum. I was sending out free cd's in exchange for feedback - send out maybe 15 16bit and 3 24bit and only got a few posts and a few more private emails (didn't want to risk picking the wrong one on the Forum I guess). The results were generally the same as this more recent comp. Majority of the responses couldn't ID the source and many preferred the wmod over the v3. My test was done in my listening room, so its not quite the same as concert SPL's. The preamps had to be run at high gain, so if the wmod was poor at high gain it wouldn't have done so well in the comp. I'm not sure if there are any CD's floating around anymore, but I didn't save any copies.

http://www.oade.com/cgi-bin/miva?Forum/technology/showmsg.mv+message=6325

I also did a pmod vs. wmod comparison, although I had to swap boxes between sets so you can't compare the same song. If anyone is interested, I can dig up the show. I think it was a Big Wu show back in the spring.

Craig T · « **Reply #98 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:56:23 PM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on November 24, 2003, 01:20:40 PM

Quote from: twatts
Perhaps you should wait to hear a Warm v. Presence (v. stock pre) comp?
[/quote

Here's a warm v. presence "comparison":

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=5298

set 1/disc 1 = wmod, set 2/disc 2 = pmod

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #99 on:** November 24, 2003, 01:59:44 PM »

Oh, but I'm a lowly snail-mailer...

Terry

marc0789 · « **Reply #100 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:07:27 PM »

I'd have no hesitancy in getting w-mod tapes. Like Markham, however, I dont' trade and can't d/l. I get tapes from friends, and none run one. And I don't even get that many shows I didn't tape, particularly since Mikey passed. $ has nothing to do with my opinion about anything, never has.

Brian · « **Reply #101 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:18:29 PM »

Quote from: marc0789 on November 24, 2003, 02:07:27 PM

$ has nothing to do with my opinion about anything, never has.

see for me money had a lot to do with what gear i got when i started out. Why should i pay 1500 bucks for a new V3 when i can get a w-mod UA5 for $525 and it is pretty much an equal piece of gear, in terms of sound quality? Seems logival to me. Sure if you have the money that's one thing but something tells me that a good chunk of that 1500 bucks is attributed to the Grace name and not the product itself. As long as *you* believe that the tapes *you* have made with *your* gear are worth every penny you spent then there's no problem really.

Brian

marc0789 · « **Reply #102 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:22:13 PM »

"I don't listen to comp tapes because I don't have time and its not going to make me change my mind."

Then shut yer yap about it. I love everyone who gets on my ass for changing gear. It's because I'm not hearing something I want to hear. I ran the same rig for a long time, and only ditched the adk and eaa because I had so many repair issues. I've tried to find the closest thing I could since then. Look, I can respect someone saying that they run >v3 or >mme because ease and convenience, acknowledging that you might lose something scaling down to one box. And I can respect someone who after listening to comps still says they like their setup. But to refuse to listen, say it wouldn't change your mind anyway, and still say shit? Nope.

Craig T · « **Reply #103 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:24:38 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 02:18:29 PM

[something tells me that a good chunk of that 1500 bucks is attributed to the Grace name and not the product itself.

how about build quality and metering? You could probably roll a car over a V3 without damage. I don't think a UA5 could even survive a 4' drop to pavement undamaged.

Brian · « **Reply #104 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:28:35 PM »

Quote from: Craig T on November 24, 2003, 02:24:38 PM

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 02:18:29 PM
[something tells me that a good chunk of that 1500 bucks is attributed to the Grace name and not the product itself.

how about build quality and metering? You could probably roll a car over a V3 without damage. I don't think a UA5 could even survive a 4' drop to pavement undamaged.

good point...however the UA5 was never designed as a field pre/ad as I'm sure you know. That's why i treat it as best as i can. I've dropped mine 4' onto a carpeted floor and it still works fine. even opened it up to check to make sure everything was still secure...

Nick Culbreth · « **Reply #105 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:33:13 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 02:18:29 PM

something tells me that a good chunk of that 1500 bucks is attributed to the Grace name and not the product itself.

i'm not a fan of the v3 but i'm not sure i'd agree w/ that statement. they sound great if you like transparency and they're by far the best designed box available.

Brian · « **Reply #106 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:37:41 PM »

i never said i wasn't a fan of the V3 and i know you never said I wasn't. IT'S A GREAT UNIT. Top notch design and when put in the right situation it flat out smokes in terms of sound! However i'd love to be able to see a spec sheet of just how much it cost to put it all together including parts and man hours. highly doubt it comes close to $1500.

Tim · « **Reply #107 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:45:07 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 02:37:41 PM

i never said i wasn't a fan of the V3 and i know you never said I wasn't. IT'S A GREAT UNIT. Top notch design and when put in the right situation it flat out smokes in terms of sound! However i'd love to be able to see a spec sheet of just how much it cost to put it all together including parts and man hours. highly doubt it comes close to $1500.

Research and design is very and they had to come up with their own dithering algorithm (ANSR) so I'd guess that's where the cost comes in.

plus the man's got to make a living!

Craig T · « **Reply #108 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:46:48 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 02:37:41 PM

However i'd love to be able to see a spec sheet of just how much it cost to put it all together including parts and man hours. highly doubt it comes close to $1500.

Oh, there's no doubt! Just a wild guess, but maybe $600? Even more shocking might be how much it costs it make a UA5 - $100?

pfife · « **Reply #109 on:** November 24, 2003, 02:52:06 PM »

Quote

how about build quality and metering?

Quote

MIGHT, and I mean MIGHT, be able to solve the metering problem for around $50... but you are right, the meters do suck...

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=11;action=display;threadid=8806

~AP

chuckcage · « **Reply #110 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:06:16 PM »

The biggest point this comparison made to me is that the UA-5 is a great sounding piece of gear, and it's definitely going in my upgrade path. I'll be able to afford it as a replacement for my AD-20 long before a V3.

When it comes to ultra-high-end gear, it's always a question of how far into diminishing returns you're willing to go. The $750 upgrade from cheap mic > MD to C1000s > AD-20 > NJB3 made a VAST difference for me. Another $750 mic upgrade will again get me a VAST difference. Now it looks like $525 for a UA-5 would get me a little more.

The place I've always found this interesting is in cables. Ok, different story for actives, but is a $200 set of cables really going to sound that much better than my $60 set, or my $30 Neutrik/Canare star quad customs? I bet if I did a comparison like the one above not one person could tell me the difference.

I missidentified it mainly, I think, because I've only heard a couple of V3 shows. (Shows you how new I am, yeah?)

This comparison really reflects positively on both pieces of gear, yeah?

Chuck

wboswell · « **Reply #111 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:08:25 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 02:37:41 PM

i never said i wasn't a fan of the V3 and i know you never said I wasn't. IT'S A GREAT UNIT. Top notch design and when put in the right situation it flat out smokes in terms of sound! However i'd love to be able to see a spec sheet of just how much it cost to put it all together including parts and man hours. highly doubt it comes close to $1500.

Parts and man hours are not a good way to measure a unit's retail cost. A unit's marketing plan reflect years of research and design which must be accounted for in a dollar sense. The Grace Co. may only hope to break even on the unit cost (R&D, parts, labor) on year 3 of the unit's production. If parts and labor were the only thing you were taking into consideration in purchasing a unit, the engineers would be working pro bono...

marc0789 · « **Reply #112 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:10:48 PM »

There's a lot of shit that'll make good tapes. When I upgraded from nak 100>d8 to 481>dmic-20 in '99 I noticed an unbelievable difference. And everything since has been 1-2% maybe, sometimes DOWN. If we weren't such dorks we wouldn't care. It's like going from scratch to slightly under par. Both are good, one is incrementally better, but it's noticeable. Imo.

Brian · « **Reply #113 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:14:46 PM »

how much R&D can really go into a 2 channel field pre/ad. seems like a simple machine to me barring the invention of their own dithering algorithm maybe...If you are saying it took Grace Co. *years* of R&D i find that to be ridiculous on their part. It's their own fault for not being able to break even on that unit. But i guess it could justify the price...

Then i again i don't own my own high-end audio gear company now do i, so i don't really know anything other than the end results of the product by listening to the tapes it makes. guess i'll just shut my trap for now.

Tim · « **Reply #114 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:14:49 PM »

good points Chuck!

It really has only been in the last 1.5 years or so that the ability to make really high quality tapes on a reasonable budget has come about. When the minime and v3 came out the prices dropped on the ad500's and ad1000's making them much more accessible. The mod'd ua5's are another (relatively) low cost but good sounding alternative.

As for mics the adk's have certainly taken the scene by storm and with good reason.. Mike has sent me some truly amazing tapes.

While a few years ago you could make some decent tapes on a budget I think now you can make really first class, top notch tapes on a budget!

Brian · « **Reply #115 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:16:57 PM »

Quote from: Tim on November 24, 2003, 03:14:49 PM

While a few years ago you could make some decent tapes on a budget I think now you can make really first class, top notch tapes on a budget!

agreed,
excellent points, Tim.

Craig T · « **Reply #116 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:17:23 PM »

Quote from: marc0789 on November 24, 2003, 03:10:48 PM

If we weren't such dorks we wouldn't care.

no shit.

ok, on that note, I've spent too much time on this board today...

wboswell · « **Reply #117 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:24:20 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 03:14:46 PM

how much R&D can really go into a 2 channel field pre/ad. seems like a simple machine to me barring the invention of their own dithering algorithm maybe...If you are saying it took Grace Co. *years* of R&D i find that to be ridiculous on their part. It's their own fault for not being able to break even on that unit. But i guess it could justify the price...

Then i again i don't own my own high-end audio gear company now do i, so i don't really know anything other than the end results of the product by listening to the tapes it makes. guess i'll just shut my trap for now.

I don't own one either, so I may be completely wrong here. However, a good project has foresight, and Grace has one. As far as I know, the 316 was the first production unit, which turned into the v2 ->v3. However, I have mid 80's GD tapes with a grace p/s in the lineage. So, this thing has been in the works for a long time... and I would assume there are other incarnations in the future. Hopefully, Mike Grace is doing well and will continue to present us with solid gear and affordable costs.

MattD · « **Reply #118 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:32:00 PM »

Quote from: STL-Taper on November 24, 2003, 03:14:46 PM

how much R&D can really go into a 2 channel field pre/ad. seems like a simple machine to me barring the invention of their own dithering algorithm maybe...If you are saying it took Grace Co. *years* of R&D i find that to be ridiculous on their part. It's their own fault for not being able to break even on that unit. But i guess it could justify the price...

Then i again i don't own my own high-end audio gear company now do i, so i don't really know anything other than the end results of the product by listening to the tapes it makes. guess i'll just shut my trap for now.

To do what any of these companies did requires a sizable chunk of change invested in R&D. We're talking on the tens-to-hundreds of thousands magnitude. I don't know if any of these were multimillion dollar investments, but to say it's a lot for a specialized company isn't too tough. As far as I know, there were ZERO 24/192 capable *portable* boxes out there when the V3 came out. That means they didn't exactly build off of anyone's design on the digital side and they modified their own design on the analog side. As for ANSR, the whole point is that it is NOT an algorithm. As far as I know this is entirely unique to dithering methods.

Since I am going through some of the agony of development with Metric Halo's products, I see exactly how hard it is to do some of this stuff. It's also why I've become very skeptical about new products ... especially those that relate to computer interfaces.

-Matt

nic · « **Reply #119 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:42:06 PM »

question about the d-mod UA-5:

while recording, is it normal for a slight digi-static to be introduced while adjusting mic gain?

Brian · « **Reply #120 on:** November 24, 2003, 03:48:29 PM »

mid-80s huh? damn. see ya learn something new everyday.

and good points MattD. I keep forgetting just how old the V3 is...and i didn't know it was the 1st portable 24/192 capable pre/ad.

see this is why TS.com rules. always learning something. All i have to do is ask a few skeptical questions and i get answers from people who know more than i do.

my whole main point was that i truly don't believe there is a $1000 difference in terms of sound quality between the V3 and w-mod UA5 and i don't think i'm alone when i say that. And this is probably the heart of Grace's problem when it comes down to seeing a profit from the V3. In my mind these comps tapes are hurting the V3 but then again tapers aren't the only people on the planet that use one. Something tells me no professional in any career where it is necessary to have a field pre/ad is using a w-mod UA5. but as this thread has proven i can be wrong.

Nick in Edinboro · « **Reply #121 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:00:57 PM »

Quote from: luvean on November 24, 2003, 03:42:06 PM

while recording, is it normal for a slight digi-static to be introduced while adjusting mic

Not in my experience, did you have your's done by Oade or do it yourself?

Brian · « **Reply #122 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:02:54 PM »

Quote from: luvean on November 24, 2003, 03:42:06 PM

question about the d-mod UA-5:

while recording, is it normal for a slight digi-static to be introduced while adjusting mic gain?

definitely not normal.

nic · « **Reply #123 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:05:21 PM »

its not mine, but twatts' and he had the digi mod done by Oade.
hmmm.....

this is weird as everytime I have patched or listened to a UA-5 sourced recording, there has ALWAYS been some anomoly that makes me think the UA-5 isnt that good, but everyone here keeps "fluffing" them....
do I just happen to know the only people who have flawed UA-5's???

DaryanLenz · « **Reply #124 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:06:29 PM »

This thread makes me very happy that I will have my mini-mp in a few days just to be different!

D

Brian · « **Reply #125 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:07:40 PM »

Quote from: luvean on November 24, 2003, 04:05:21 PM

its not mine, but twatts' and he had the digi mod done by Oade.
hmmm.....

Send it back to Doug and I'd be willing to bet he'd fix it free of charge or give a new one entirely. seen it done before back when first started lurking the Oade board.

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #126 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:27:56 PM »

Hey there everybody,

I thought I had typed out an answer, but it got lost...

Anyways, the digi-noise Luvean is referring to occured during the first few seconds of Lake Trout at the Brewery in Raleigh a few weeks ago...

It occured when I CRANKED the gain DOWN fast and hard, from about the 5pm position to the 11am position... Did this is one swift turn...

I have had NO NOISE since, even this past friday when I was "rollercoasting" the gain (up and down, up and down). I was doing only my second true AUD tape and the first where I paid attention so I was really playing with the mics and gain and stuff...

Yeah, the biggest problem I got out of it last friday was turning up too hot and then accidentally fat-fingering the phantom power, turning it off and causing drop out for about 10 seconds...

Terry

junkbondking · « **Reply #127 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:30:04 PM »

wow you start your ua-5 at 5pm position

i start mine for most rooms around 1:30.... where are u taping

Kindguy · « **Reply #128 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:33:28 PM »

I usually never get past 12:00....almost always right under it

nic · « **Reply #129 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:36:17 PM »

terry, the static noise is in more places than just the very beginning.
every time the gain was adjusted there is a little bit of static on the tape

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #130 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:37:48 PM »

No, I don't start at 5pm NOW. And I'm not sure why we had started so hot that night... Chalk it up to inexperience - I'd only had the UA5 for about 3 or 4 days before that night...

Now I actually start at noon and work from there... Usually up... I ended up at about 3-4pm for Larry Keel this past friday after starting at 1pm...

But I have noticed that my mics go from non-existant to pretty good to damned loud all in about two "hours" on the UA5 gain... I'm sure its the LEs I have, but it seems kinda touchy...

Terry

Brian · « **Reply #131 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:43:28 PM »

in my experience the gain knobs on the UA5 have always been touchy after about the 1pm mark. took me a while to get used to it. really makes hittin right at -1db damn near impossible...

nic · « **Reply #132 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:44:07 PM »

t, is the -10db pads still on? maybe thats why the gain is turned up so high?

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #133 on:** November 24, 2003, 04:45:32 PM »

Oh, I remember, we had turned on the -10db pads for Trout, maybe that's why we had it turned up so hot to begin with...

The Brewery is very bass heavy for a venue...

Terry

BCostigan · « **Reply #134 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:19:07 PM »

Never knew pm and am made a difference on the knobs!

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #135 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:29:59 PM »

Oh yeah, am and pm make a big difference... but not as much as the actual day of the week... hahaha!

Luvean:

Really? You've heard more on that recording? That was the only place I really heard anything unusaul in all the recordings I've made. Now, the Pour House gives me plenty to worry about, SBD with the left slightly hotter, the smokeeter popping away every few minutes, and crappy (very crappy) cables on stage...

Terry

Brian · « **Reply #136 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:33:41 PM »

i guess they don't call it the Poor House for nothing eh?

woops it's "Pour House" eh oh well the joke wasn't that funny anyway....

dammit can't work be over yet. i feel like i've been on this board way to much today. that's what happens when they give me nothing to do i suppose.

Nick in Edinboro · « **Reply #137 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:39:46 PM »

Quote from: BCostigan on November 24, 2003, 05:19:07 PM

Never knew pm and am made a difference on the knobs!

joeshambro · « **Reply #138 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:55:08 PM »

You know what I'd like to do?

SR77 > V2 > UA5 vs. SR77 > W-mod UA5 comparisons...

Brian, want to get together and do a comparison sometime? I think the SR77's are so transparent and neutral that they'd be great to give a try on something like this to...

Brian · « **Reply #139 on:** November 24, 2003, 05:57:11 PM »

hey joe, i'd be down for this as long as you can promise me that those sr77's won't fry w-mod UA5 pre-amps like Doug Oade said they would.....

joeshambro · « **Reply #140 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:00:23 PM »

ohh shit.. I didn't know that was a problem with the w-mods...

I ran SR77 > UA5 for a while before picking up the V2 and never really had a problem... and I know several others (BeckyT on this list comes to mind) that do as well and never had a problem...

We could also try MC012 > V2 / WMod UA5... we both know those mics have no problems

Brian · « **Reply #141 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:02:58 PM »

not sure if Becky runs a w-mod or stock UA5, but if i had to guess it would be stock...

I'm down for an octava>V2>UA5 versus octava>w-mod UA5. you still have your old octavas and if so aren't yours modded?

brian

joeshambro · « **Reply #142 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:10:02 PM »

Yeah...

Maybe we could find a pair of DPA 402X's, there's a couple local guys I know that have them... Transparency is the key I think.

dmonterisi · « **Reply #143 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:14:28 PM »

that's not the key...it's hearing the units compared running mics with similar sonic characteristics to the ones you run. i wouldn't run a comp with the most transparent mics unless you are interested in which box sounds best with transparent mics.

Overall, i believe these comps are very very limited in use because the people listening to the tapes do not have the benefit of having been to the show and know what the sound was like at the venue. the only real way to get a sense for the gear is to run it and then listen to your tapes. That's how i knew i didn't like the minime, but it took about 3 months.

InfiniteOhms · « **Reply #144 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:24:45 PM »

Quote from: luvean on November 24, 2003, 04:44:07 PM

t, is the -10db pads still on? maybe thats why the gain is turned up so high?

Made that same damn mistake my first show with my adk le's > w-mod ua-5 > jb3 .... it was very quite to so i had the pre cranked ALL the way, manged to turn off the pads inbetween songs and despite my dumbass knob turning i pulled a good tape

this would be a perfect place for the *OFF TOPIC* smiley from the oade board

Joe w. · « **Reply #145 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:32:40 PM »

Quote

I don't own one either, so I may be completely wrong here. However, a good project has foresight, and Grace has one. As far as I know, the 316 was the first production unit, which turned into the v2 ->v3. However, I have mid 80's GD tapes with a grace p/s in the lineage. So, this thing has been in the works for a long time... and I would assume there are other incarnations in the future. Hopefully, Mike Grace is doing well and will continue to present us with solid gear and affordable costs.

I agree with the R&D comments. I think something has to be said about overall craftsmanship. IMO, the V3 is by far, a better crafted product. The materials, connectors are much more solid. If you compare the costs of producing such products, you have to look at the size of these companies. I'm not sure how large one is as compared to the other so the production costs could vary. Methods of production can greatly effect the production costs as well. I imagine Grace Designs isn't pumping these boxes out nearly as fast as Roland/Edirol and my assumption is that grace designs takes a little more of a hand-crafted approach. It certainly appears so on the surface. Little design flaws on the ua-5 make a big difference to me in my opinions on craftsmanship. The phantom button is a button for starters and it is located practically on top of the right channel gain knob.....whereby, someone can easily turn off phantom while simply adjusting gain. The gain knobs are too close to the xlr in's as well. you have to hold your fingers in a crab-like pinching motion to get in there. The v3's gain knobs are smooth as silk and easy to get to. Althought they have the 5db stepped gain which can be undesireable to some....but not an issue for me. The power switch on the v3 is a switch...not a button that can be turned off easily if you are fiddling around through the bag a little carelessly. Too many plastic or plastic-like connections and materials on the UA-5 for my tastes. But those lesser materials lower production costs and make production faster. Good design and Good craftsmanship mean a great deal to me but i bought this box because it was a great sounding, affordable solution to my problem.

InfiniteOhms · « **Reply #146 on:** November 24, 2003, 06:56:00 PM »

Joe,
Your definately right ... the V3 (from what i'v heard) is built for the field and built right ... Where as the Ua-5 is built to sit by your computer and modded for field use, this is why im going to find some foam and start using a hard case i have for carry my ua-5.

Kindguy · « **Reply #147 on:** November 24, 2003, 09:26:03 PM »

For the record all the tapes I've heard with the warm UA-5, 480's sound the best to my ears. They complement each other well.

But what pre's that Doug mods or builds dosen't sound good with the 480's.

creekfreak · « **Reply #148 on:** November 24, 2003, 10:14:40 PM »

Quote from: Joe w. on November 24, 2003, 06:32:40 PM

Quote
I don't own one either, so I may be completely wrong here. However, a good project has foresight, and Grace has one. As far as I know, the 316 was the first production unit, which turned into the v2 ->v3. However, I have mid 80's GD tapes with a grace p/s in the lineage. So, this thing has been in the works for a long time... and I would assume there are other incarnations in the future. Hopefully, Mike Grace is doing well and will continue to present us with solid gear and affordable costs.

I agree with the R&D comments. I think something has to be said about overall craftsmanship. IMO, the V3 is by far, a better crafted product. The materials, connectors are much more solid. If you compare the costs of producing such products, you have to look at the size of these companies. I'm not sure how large one is as compared to the other so the production costs could vary. Methods of production can greatly effect the production costs as well. I imagine Grace Designs isn't pumping these boxes out nearly as fast as Roland/Edirol and my assumption is that grace designs takes a little more of a hand-crafted approach. It certainly appears so on the surface. Little design flaws on the ua-5 make a big difference to me in my opinions on craftsmanship. The phantom button is a button for starters and it is located practically on top of the right channel gain knob.....whereby, someone can easily turn off phantom while simply adjusting gain. The gain knobs are too close to the xlr in's as well. you have to hold your fingers in a crab-like pinching motion to get in there. The v3's gain knobs are smooth as silk and easy to get to. Althought they have the 5db stepped gain which can be undesireable to some....but not an issue for me. The power switch on the v3 is a switch...not a button that can be turned off easily if you are fiddling around through the bag a little carelessly. Too many plastic or plastic-like connections and materials on the UA-5 for my tastes. But those lesser materials lower production costs and make production faster. Good design and Good craftsmanship mean a great deal to me but i bought this box because it was a great sounding, affordable solution to my problem.

exactly, that is how I feel also. While good sound is important, I also look for something that is well built, and nothing is as well built for field use than a V2 or V3.

super-phat-al · « **Reply #149 on:** November 24, 2003, 11:01:26 PM »

i like source B the best.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #150 on:** November 25, 2003, 01:24:45 AM »

i agree, the v3 could prolly be dropped from a ten story window and it would bounce right back up....

joeshambro · « **Reply #151 on:** November 25, 2003, 04:13:37 AM »

I've thought about a ton of external mods to the UA5 that'd be cool... I wonder where I could buy the parts and the patience to do such a thing...

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #152 on:** November 25, 2003, 05:37:08 AM »

Quote from: bean on November 25, 2003, 01:24:45 AM

i agree, the v3 could prolly be dropped from a ten story window and it would bounce right back up....

yeah, and I could find a girl to suck my dick. love ya bean

RobC · « **Reply #153 on:** November 25, 2003, 08:40:33 AM »

Quote from: creekfreak on November 24, 2003, 10:14:40 PM

exactly, that is how I feel also. While good sound is important, I also look for something that is well built, and nothing is as well built for field use than a V2 or V3.

I would put up an AD-20 against anything in a distruction test.

I think you could take an AD-20 and throw it across the room and beam the w00kie in the head (that stormed through the section), during the set break and it would work fine afterward.

Kindguy · « **Reply #154 on:** November 25, 2003, 09:44:53 AM »

Moke you kill me!!

MattD · « **Reply #155 on:** November 25, 2003, 11:51:07 AM »

They tested the ULN-2 by running a forklift over it. That thing is one solid box too. I wish it were shaped more like the V3, though!

chuckcage · « **Reply #156 on:** November 25, 2003, 12:44:34 PM »

Quote from: RobC on November 25, 2003, 08:40:33 AM

I would put up an AD-20 against anything in a distruction test.

I think you could take an AD-20 and throw it across the room and beam the w00kie in the head (that stormed through the section), during the set break and it would work fine afterward.

Amen. One thing those Denecke people know how to do is build an indestructible and practical piece of gear.

Some slick little "features:"

- The battery just clips in, no freaky holder to deal with
- You can clip a battery in backwards without damaging the unit or discharging the battery, so you can store a battery in it.
- There's a minijack in the battery compartment that accepts 7 to 24 volts DC (picky, isn't it?) so you can run it off whatever you're using to run everything else

Yeah, great starter pre/ADC, no doubt. I love mine, but am thinking TL/UA-5 in the future...

Chuck

junkbondking · « **Reply #157 on:** November 25, 2003, 01:13:39 PM »

keep thinking tl/ua-5. thats what i run, and it rocks.....

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #158 on:** November 26, 2003, 02:49:09 AM »

ua-5,ua-5,ua-5,ua-5, ua-5, ua-5,ua-5,ua-5,ua-5,ua-5.......

Sean Gallemore · « **Reply #159 on:** November 26, 2003, 03:44:00 AM »

coughphluphcough

marc0789 · « **Reply #160 on:** November 26, 2003, 09:54:54 AM »

My first car, a '72 Dodge Charger, had an indestructible body as well. Bounced off two embankments and fishtailed into a ditch, not a mark on it in '81. Unfortunately, everything inside was pure shit. Go ahead v3 fluffers, make fun of the Apogee. Although I forget when the last time dropping an a/d was a crucial part of a good pull.

wboswell · « **Reply #161 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:44:57 AM »

This debate is getting close to a meet me at the flagpole situation...

marc0789 · « **Reply #162 on:** November 26, 2003, 10:48:30 AM »

don't say flagpole, William, you're inviting Kinder/Smiley posts.

utahtaper · « **Reply #163 on:** November 26, 2003, 12:55:48 PM »

Quote from: creekfreak on November 24, 2003, 10:14:40 PM

Quote from: Joe w. on November 24, 2003, 06:32:40 PM
Quote
I don't own one either, so I may be completely wrong here. However, a good project has foresight, and Grace has one. As far as I know, the 316 was the first production unit, which turned into the v2 ->v3. However, I have mid 80's GD tapes with a grace p/s in the lineage. So, this thing has been in the works for a long time... and I would assume there are other incarnations in the future. Hopefully, Mike Grace is doing well and will continue to present us with solid gear and affordable costs.

I agree with the R&D comments. I think something has to be said about overall craftsmanship. IMO, the V3 is by far, a better crafted product. The materials, connectors are much more solid. If you compare the costs of producing such products, you have to look at the size of these companies. I'm not sure how large one is as compared to the other so the production costs could vary. Methods of production can greatly effect the production costs as well. I imagine Grace Designs isn't pumping these boxes out nearly as fast as Roland/Edirol and my assumption is that grace designs takes a little more of a hand-crafted approach. It certainly appears so on the surface. Little design flaws on the ua-5 make a big difference to me in my opinions on craftsmanship. The phantom button is a button for starters and it is located practically on top of the right channel gain knob.....whereby, someone can easily turn off phantom while simply adjusting gain. The gain knobs are too close to the xlr in's as well. you have to hold your fingers in a crab-like pinching motion to get in there. The v3's gain knobs are smooth as silk and easy to get to. Althought they have the 5db stepped gain which can be undesireable to some....but not an issue for me. The power switch on the v3 is a switch...not a button that can be turned off easily if you are fiddling around through the bag a little carelessly. Too many plastic or plastic-like connections and materials on the UA-5 for my tastes. But those lesser materials lower production costs and make production faster. Good design and Good craftsmanship mean a great deal to me but i bought this box because it was a great sounding, affordable solution to my problem.

exactly, that is how I feel also. While good sound is important, I also look for something that is well built, and nothing is as well built for field use than a V2 or V3.

Very well put. I used the MMe and switched to a V3 and couldn't believe the difference between the two. The V3 captured exactly what I heard at the show. That's what I was looking for. I would say it would be hard to really compare and two pre's unless you were at the show and taped it and were at home listening to the recording remembering what you had heard. And from that point it just becomes taste. If a lot of you were actually at the Hillbilly show you may have a different opinion on what source you liked better becuase what the sound the two units produced may not be what you heard at the show.
Regardless I wish I could hear the two sources. Even a blind test would be nice for my own amusement. I can't figure the download out.

Author Topic: V3/Oade-warm-mod-UA5 comparison (Read 40720 times)

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

cpclark

wrangler_n_space

marc0789

marc0789

marc0789

marc0789