Topic: Critically Spaced Omni's

[dmonterisi]

i don't follow...why would the proximity effect make something further away sound more like a soundboard?  maybe we're talking about different things, when i said sounds like a soundboard, i meant that there wasn't much crowd and the various instruments are more detailed and defined than a normal audience recording and it doesn't have as much of the "feel" that an aud tape normally does (maybe this is the low-end degrading?).

-damon

[Wes]

 kind of backed myself into a corner here..  I said that omnis in the section would sound more like a soundboard b/c in a sbd tape you wouldn't expect to be getting bombarred with bass like you would FOB.  No matter what omnis are going to be the most natural sounding mics you can use imo.  They don't produce that feel of an aud tape because they are omnidirectional, it can be very hard to tell how far away from the soundsource omnis are, where with cards/hypers you can usually sense it.

[twoodruff]

I think omnis are somewhat directional, as mike french mentioned earlier

[Wes]

why don't you try face the u89s to the back one set and to the front one set.  bet that would answer the question

[dmonterisi]

kind of backed myself into a corner here..  I said that omnis in the section would sound more like a soundboard b/c in a sbd tape you wouldn't expect to be getting bombarred with bass like you would FOB.  No matter what omnis are going to be the most natural sounding mics you can use imo.  They don't produce that feel of an aud tape because they are omnidirectional, it can be very hard to tell how far away from the soundsource omnis are, where with cards/hypers you can usually sense it.

ok, that's what i thought you meant, makes sense.  i'm eally curious about omnis.  buti don't think there are very many instances that i typically tape in where omnis would be useful since i find myself taping in clubs mostly.  actually, it's too bad sideshowbob didn't have his mk5's last night, we could have done it on the lawn for the dead.  it sure would be nice to have the switchable LD's for this kind of experimental fun.

-damon

[twoodruff]

you first

[Wes]

sure!  isn't jerry joseph coming to george st. sometime soon

[dmonterisi]

well, if they weren't directional at all, their polar response curve would be totally circular, not at all irregular.  the polar response curve for the 4006 shows attenuation that is far less directional than the others, but it definitely has some directional characteristics.  look at the difference between 180 degrees and 0 degrees.  pretty marked attenuation especially at higher frequencies.

[Marc Nutter]

Hi All,

I love using omnis but find that they only really work well in our application in a flat, open/outdoor space.  

Since they are omnidirectional (below about 5kHz), they often deliver a very smooth, natural sound while giving the feeling of being submerged in the music.  The high-end directionality does lend value to the notion of actually pointing them at a high-frequency source (at least at the P.A. itself) as opposed to straight forward or totally off-axis. Of course, Tim's results may contradict this.  When are you bringing those Botanic Gardens samples.  Anxious ears await. : )

As far as low-end rolling off with distance, it is, like all sound going to decay at roughly 6dB per doubling of distance.  High-end, however, is much more subject to absorption in air.  Further, omnis are not subject to proximity effect (also related to inverse square law--doubling of level per halving of distance).  Consequently, the omnis will continue to pick up deep bass from a greater distance but the high-end will be attenuated.  As a result, it is very easy to accidently get VERY bass heavy recordings from omnis at a distance.

All said, my Grateful Dead, St. Louis, Riverport 7/6/95 tape--B&K 4006 omnis on the lawn--is one of my favorite recordings that I've ever made. I attribute this in big part to the delays hung from the back of the pavillion that accented the otherwise missing high-end.

On the other hand, my 15th row Neil Young & Crazy Horse '91 McNichols Arena tape (AKG 462's) is among the worst I've ever made.

Omnis are tricky but when they work, they are sweet!!!

Happy Recording Everybody,

Marc

[Nick S.]

Ahh, 7/6/95, my only GD show  The perils of being born too late!  A nice tape though Marc!

Nick

[schoeps t00bes]

this summer John Crouch and I will be running omni comparisons with the mk5's at the Gorge and Utah.  i will be running my tubes and he will be running the 6's.  should be a lot of fun!!!!

i will let you guys know the results...

Dave

[Rob D.]

I bought some omni caps last Spring but have not yet used them from the section or FOB outdoors. So i'm wondering if you guys bring tape measures and measure verticle and horizontal distances when running these caps? A tape measure sounds like a must-have tool. I'll make sure my Plumber's Butt in is full glory when using it  

[Chuck]

I want to do omni's spaced about 30" for The Dead at Red Rocks this summer. I was planning on pointing them to the far sides of the PA. I've built a spacer bar with "wings" so I can adjust the spacing. It would be nice to have someone else try another technique from the same spot for comparison.