Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Help With Balcony Clamping  (Read 13465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline skotdee

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Help With Balcony Clamping
« on: May 10, 2008, 07:37:11 AM »
Hey Folks, taper newb here, got a few questions about clamping to the balcony.

There is a local venue I'm going to taping in a lot, with not much floor room to set up but a great balcony. Here is a pic so you see what I'm working with:



Obviously thats a side view but the balcony is the same in the back. Anyway, Im thinking of clamping to one of those vertical supports, then extending down to get closer to approx 10' above the floor. Several concerns: 1) Do you think the sound is going to slap off that section of wood under the balcony and affect my recording? I'll be using cards, so I was hoping that might not be an issue. Maybe I should extend all the way down past it so that wont be an issue? That would still be plenty above people's heads, but It looks like I'd need a damn long extension of some sort. 2) What is the best equipment to use for this job?

I've done a lot of research but all the different options are a bit overwhelming to say the least. I'm leaning toward a superclamp with the extension arm, but is that going to be long enough to get me under that flat section of wood under the rail? Also could someone please show me exactly what all I'll need to attach a t-bar to the extension arm if thats the way to go? Im a bit confused here since I'd be working "upside down" with this particular application. I know the shure vert bar would probably make matters much easier, so I may go with that. There is a show next weekend that I'd love to tape so I need to act fast.

Any thoughts/suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
AKG C480B/C460B/CK61/CK62/CK63/CK8>T+ UA-5>OCM R-44

Offline shaggy

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1921
    • dwonk
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2008, 07:45:25 AM »
2 X superclamps and a monopod, run it upside down.  But if you can't, just run a superclamp or an ENG C-clamp off the top.  No need to get all fussy about it if you don't have the gear.  Do it before anyone comes in, just-in-case your palms are sweaty and the monopod goes bye-bye!  Safety is foremost. 

Offline skotdee

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 08:16:21 AM »
Thanks Shaggy, but could you elaborate a little more? I don't have the gear, but Im willing to buy whatever I need since I'll be taping here quite a bit. This is my hometown venue. Isnt there an extension arm for the superclamp that would work instead of a monopod? Or is that not long enough? With the 2 x clamp option are you saying one to clamp to the rail and the other to hold the monopod? Also, how the heck to you mount a t-bar to a monopod? Won't it have a big ole attachment head for a camera on the end of it?

Also, whats an ENG C-clamp? The tapes made from up top leave a little to be desired, so I'm really trying to get down below the balcony if at all possible.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 08:23:25 AM by skotdee »
AKG C480B/C460B/CK61/CK62/CK63/CK8>T+ UA-5>OCM R-44

Offline shaggy

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1921
    • dwonk
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 11:10:50 AM »
You said you wanted it to go down to about 10' off the floor?  The Bogen/Manfrotto extension bar will certainly not clear that space between the lowest part of the vertical slats and the bottom of the balcony (the longest rigid one is like 7 or 10 inches, they make a longer flex arm too but I dunno how secure those are with a monopod and mics on the other end).  If you use two super clamps and an extension arm you could run a monopod upside down, you gotta see if that lip is gonna be a problem (from what I see in the photo, it might be a problem to clear with the extension arm).  A wee bit dangerous but if everything is tight, nothing will come loose.  A monopod has a camera screw at the top, use whatever adapters you need to get your t-bar to work with it.

Running two superclamps supporting a mic stand, here at the Showbox in Seattle (hard to run dead center there, the next best thing and getting a a few feet closer to the center is to clamp to the rail next to the soundboard).  Having two is indispensable but they a bitch to lug around.  Had to lose these before I flew out here to Tokyo.  I sure could have used them last night in Aoyama to get a bit closer to the center.



If it sounds bad, then forget it.  A ENG C-clamp to run off of anything:



What about them spot lights I see every 4-5 feet apart.  Is there one dead center?  Can you use the house ladder to get to it?

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (60)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • Gender: Male
  • "Are you Zman!?"
    • My Archived shows
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 11:54:56 AM »
A Super Clamp and either a Bogen HD Flex Arm or a Bogen 196 articulating arm.  Anything that will get you down and out away from the edge of the rail.  That way you won't pick up all the yelling and screaming coming from the balcony.

Example below:

Offline GDfan

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 886
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 01:47:58 PM »
take it from Dan, he is the Balcony King!
AKG AK63 > Niant PFA > MixPre3
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/CLaPorte

Offline Brian Skalinder

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (27)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 18713
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 03:15:04 PM »
Couple options, first one already mentioned:

<1>  Bogen SuperClamp + Bogen Extension (35-92")

I use a SuperClamp + custom extension pretty regularly, but the Bogen extension is cheaper and should work just fine.  I clamp to a cylindrical horizontal bar in the balcony, which allows me to rotate the clamp around the bar to adjust the extension's angle / depth relative to the mount point.  Pic (thanks, Ed!) without the bar to which I'm clamping.

This setup works well if you're able to clamp to a horizontal, cylindrical bar.  If you need to clamp to a vertical bar, or a horizontal bar that's not cylindrical (like a square-ish bar) and therefore won't allow you to rotate the clamp, you won't have the flexibility you need to adjust the angle / depth of the extension.  In that case, try option <2>...

<2>  SuperClamp + Posi-Lok + Extension

This provides greater flexibility.  Clamp to the rail so the standard stud is horizontal.  Attach the Posi-Lok to the standard stud, using a jam nut to align the Posi-Lok so it rotates into the plane you want.  (I like Latch Lake jam nuts).  Then attach the extension to the Posi-Lok.  The Posi-Lok allows you to control the angle / depth of the extension as it runs down from the mount point.



Personally, I wouldn't use my C-Type clamp to secure anything other than the mics:



I just don't feel it's robust enough to hold the added weight of the extension + the mics and the associated torque with the mics extended.



Note 1:  In both cases above, you may need various adapters to attach the extension or Posi-Lok to the SuperClamp stud.

NOTE 2:  In ALL cases of clamping to a balcony railing, or any position that hangs your mics above the crowd, you should use a safety cable.  Clamp falling or getting knocked off the raili ng and the mics or your clamp clobbering someone in the head is a good way to convince the venue to shut down taping altogether.  In addition to safety, it demonstrates professionalism and will help set the venue's concerns at ease.
Milab VM-44 Links >
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline SmokinJoe

  • Trade Count: (63)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4188
  • Gender: Male
  • "75 and sunny"... life is so much simpler.
    • uploads to archive.org
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2008, 04:08:02 PM »
Is those vertical slats round or rectangular?

If rectangular, I would use something like shown below, which will get you out a few inches.  Standard clamp from the hardware store with a 3/8" hole drilled through it.
If round, bogan super clamp, or windtech C-clamp, without any other extensions.

I wouldn't worry too much about going out and down.  I would try to clamp as low as I conveniently could on that bar, and between the t-bar and your shock mounts, this will get you a little below toe level.

Mics: Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / AT853's / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (60)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • Gender: Male
  • "Are you Zman!?"
    • My Archived shows
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2008, 08:56:24 PM »
Couple options, first one already mentioned:

<1>  Bogen SuperClamp + Bogen Extension (35-92")

I use a SuperClamp + custom extension pretty regularly, but the Bogen extension is cheaper and should work just fine.  I clamp to a cylindrical horizontal bar in the balcony, which allows me to rotate the clamp around the bar to adjust the extension's angle / depth relative to the mount point.  Pic (thanks, Ed!) without the bar to which I'm clamping.

This setup works well if you're able to clamp to a horizontal, cylindrical bar.  If you need to clamp to a vertical bar, or a horizontal bar that's not cylindrical (like a square-ish bar) and therefore won't allow you to rotate the clamp, you won't have the flexibility you need to adjust the angle / depth of the extension.  In that case, try option <2>...

<2>  SuperClamp + Posi-Lok + Extension

This provides greater flexibility.  Clamp to the rail so the standard stud is horizontal.  Attach the Posi-Lok to the standard stud, using a jam nut to align the Posi-Lok so it rotates into the plane you want.  (I like Latch Lake jam nuts).  Then attach the extension to the Posi-Lok.  The Posi-Lok allows you to control the angle / depth of the extension as it runs down from the mount point.



Personally, I wouldn't use my C-Type clamp to secure anything other than the mics:



I just don't feel it's robust enough to hold the added weight of the extension + the mics and the associated torque with the mics extended.



Note 1:  In both cases above, you may need various adapters to attach the extension or Posi-Lok to the SuperClamp stud.

NOTE 2:  In ALL cases of clamping to a balcony railing, or any position that hangs your mics above the crowd, you should use a safety cable.  Clamp falling or getting knocked off the raili ng and the mics or your clamp clobbering someone in the head is a good way to convince the venue to shut down taping altogether.  In addition to safety, it demonstrates professionalism and will help set the venue's concerns at ease.


Thanks Brian for the safety cable tip.  Need one of those now that I'm not running the flex arm.  Huge find.   :coolguy:



Here's a new item I use:  Bogen 196 articulating arm.  Made of the same material as bogen stands.  Very light, but also very structurally dependable.   24" in length when straightened out.  Has the Posi-Lok feature at all the joints.  Very compact and easier to carry than an extension pole.   

<3.>  Bogen Super Clamp +

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Bogen_Manfrotto_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm_2.html

« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 09:01:34 PM by spyder9 »

Offline bluntforcetrauma

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 833
  • Gender: Male
    • http://themovementschool.org
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2008, 09:28:52 PM »
I like the bogen ' C" clamp and Bogen extension pole.  I do have 3 superclamps also but i find the " c" clamp to be a little stronger for a right angle wood hold.

just my .02 cents







Offline skotdee

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2008, 10:48:44 PM »
If you need to clamp to a vertical bar, or a horizontal bar that's not cylindrical (like a square-ish bar) and therefore won't allow you to rotate the clamp, you won't have the flexibility you need to adjust the angle / depth of the extension.  In that case, try option <2>...

<2>  SuperClamp + Posi-Lok + Extension

This provides greater flexibility.  Clamp to the rail so the standard stud is horizontal.  Attach the Posi-Lok to the standard stud, using a jam nut to align the Posi-Lok so it rotates into the plane you want.  (I like Latch Lake jam nuts).  Then attach the extension to the Posi-Lok.  The Posi-Lok allows you to control the angle / depth of the extension as it runs down from the mount point.

Im thinking this option may be the best to fit my needs. Its definitely a vertical "slat" that I'll be clamping to, which is "squarish" in shape, not cylindrical. If I could please ask a few more questions:

1. First, and please pardon my ignorance on this, but which super clamp should I use? There seems to be several options available on B&H. I assume its the 2915? Or should I use the "quick action" version?

2. Also, which "standard stud" do I use? The version shown here? Or how about this one since it has the more common 3/8 thread?

3. Next, can you tell me what thread the male and female connectors on the posi-lok use? This will definitely help me figure out which adapers I need. I'm hoping they're both 5/8?

EDIT: After a little more research, I found it does feature the standard 5/8" thread. So Im now thinking I should indeed grab the 3/8 thread standard stud for the super clamp, and with a 3/8>5/8 adapter, Im set to connect the posi-lok, correct?

4. Last, how does the extension attach to the posi-lok? It says it attaches to any top that has a 5/8 inch STUD, but the posi-lok looks to have THREAD. Im thinking this doesnt matter, and it locks on over the thread?

UUUGGGHHH, still so many questions! Please excuse me, I just want to be sure I get all this right before I hit B&H up with a huge order...

« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 11:33:02 PM by skotdee »
AKG C480B/C460B/CK61/CK62/CK63/CK8>T+ UA-5>OCM R-44

Offline SmokinJoe

  • Trade Count: (63)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4188
  • Gender: Male
  • "75 and sunny"... life is so much simpler.
    • uploads to archive.org
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 09:19:45 AM »
Go for the regular superclamp (not the quick action one).  The quick action one has a thumb screw that you can't crank down on as well.

By the way, what are you using for mics?  If you are using AT-853's, that's a little different from ADK-TLs.





« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 09:37:56 AM by SmokinJoe »
Mics: Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / AT853's / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

Offline nickb

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 261
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 12:43:13 PM »
+T All around.

Very informative thread !!

Mics: AKG ck1x ~> mk46 ~> c460b
Pre's & A>D's: Oade M148/AETA PSP-3/Apogee AD-500e
Decks: Edirol R-44/iRiver H120

ISO: AKG ck3x Caps

Offline bl6216@yahoo.com

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
  • Gender: Male
  • Photographer:Jim Marshall - Jerry @ Woodstock
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 08:48:30 PM »
Before you go and by any thing find out if you can clamp from the balcony were you tape.
MBHO KA200 N / KA500 HN > Hi Ho Custom Silver Actives > MBHO 603 A > Van Den Hul The Second >  SD722

coming soon Hi Ho Custom Silver Actives

Show I taped on archive.org http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/deadhead6216

"We're the first generation that's really capable of saving this music forever. Now is the time because we finally have the digital technology that allows us to preserve it indefinitely. It's also the critical time to do this because the older recordings are really deteriorating. It's an opportunity and it's also a serious responsibility, future generations will hold us responsible for what we do or do not do as far as preserving th

Offline Colin Liston

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2168
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help With Balcony Clamping
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2008, 05:42:19 PM »




If that is the Freebird, PM me, I tape from the balcony all the time.  I'll see if I have some pictures of my set up.
Occasionally....music mics record

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.239 seconds with 37 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company