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Author Topic: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(  (Read 3998 times)

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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« on: June 19, 2014, 11:24:00 PM »
This is really puzzling me. I'm almost finished with my DAT transfers, from a total of 650 down to the last 60.  I was using my DA-P1 to transfer until it died last year. For the last 7 months or so I've been using: TCD-D8 >S/PDIF >DR-100mkII.
(Thanks to Randy Vogel for the loan of the digital cable.)

Out of five DAT machines, the D8 is the only one that still works, so I can't really check some of these problem tapes on another machine.

The problem is, I'm experiencing errors in the last part of the tape, usually starting about 90 to 100 minutes into the tape. Some times it's just a few and other times it's many. I always unpack the tape by doing a FF/RW before the transfer. Most of my DATs have been stored tail out. I've hardly ever had errors in the first part of the tape. If they are present it is ALWAYS toward the end. Why is this? I seem to remember that the Sonys seemed to be more forgiving than the Tascams as far as errors. If I had a tape that errored on the DA-30 usually the D7 or D8 would play it. I don't remember this happening before. Is it because of age? Some of the DATs that I have transferred that are almost 20 years old play fine, and some that I copied from a friend's collection in 2001 have problems, but Only at the end of the recording. Yeah, that's still a long time ago...

It's not specific to one particular brand, though it seems that TDK DDS tapes are the worst.

My DATs have been stored in the wooden drawers of my library card catalog cabinet. I live in California, near the coast, away from high temperatures and humidity. The DATs were never played except to copy to another DAT for a trade or to be transferred. (I never wanted to just 'play' tapes because of worries of added wear and tear on the machines.)

I found errors all through a Zero DAT last week, but I figured that was because of poor head alignment on the original record deck. It's a shame, because that one was a first clone of a AKG 414 >HHb PDR 1000 master and I've never seen that source before. (Ventura Theater 1998). I don't remember the taper's name, but I got it in trade through DAT Heads in late '98 or '99.

Fortunately, I have transferred my masters already. These are the last of my trade DATs, though some sources don't seem to be in circulation.

Any ideas?

ONT-


Offline BradM

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 02:52:02 PM »
Have you tried doing partial transfers? Transfer the first half of a tape, take it out, shut everything down, wait a while, and then transfer the rest. I'm wondering if it might be the D8 getting "tired" and glitching up after playing the first big chunk of the tape.

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Offline twatts (that "Pants" thing is so lame...)

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 03:20:31 PM »
Do you have a list of the DATs you have left to do???  I'd be willing to run some thru my R500 for you...

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2014, 01:34:07 PM »
Do you have a list of the DATs you have left to do???  I'd be willing to run some thru my R500 for you...

Terry

Thanks Terry for your offer. I am going to continue to try and transfer these and I will give you a list of the ones that are problematic for me.

So far I've been lucky and have found similar sources on friend's lists to get copies of. (Soundboards). The only one so far that has errored that is a one-off source is Phil & Friends 4/17/99 Warfield Theater, recorded with my old Neumann KM-184s >Wendt NGS-X2 >Sony TCD-D100 @ Drink Rail. (I sold my KM-184s to another taper to buy the KM-140s and he sent me a DAT of the Phil show that he recorded.) Also the afore mentioned Zero Ventura Theater 1/18/98 Ventura Theater AKG 414's >HHb PDR-1000 PortaDat.

ONT-


Offline danlynch

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2014, 02:22:54 PM »
The "partial transfer" is a great idea and something that I have used successfully.

Its either a "tired" deck or more likely the DAT is shedding so much that its dirtying up the heads by the time you reach the second half of the show.  I would transfer the first half or so, stop at a dead spot in the show and then rest the deck, clean the heads and try to do the second half.  When you're mastering the wav file in whatever software you use, joining the two files should be fairly painless.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2014, 09:48:17 PM »
I don't think it's the deck. My D8 has never been used for anything other than mastering live shows. It's also the newest DAT recorder that I have and was purchased new in 2002. Mine was the LAST D8 that Terrapin Tapes had in their inventory. I just finished transferring both DATs from the 7/22/96 Furthur Festival at Wolf Mountain Amphitheatre in Park City Utah (DSBDs) and it worked fine with no errors. Both tapes were Sony audio grades.

Offline twatts (that "Pants" thing is so lame...)

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2014, 12:54:26 AM »

Thanks Terry for your offer. I am going to continue to try and transfer these and I will give you a list of the ones that are problematic for me.


Yeah, put them aside (especially that 4/17/99 Phil and Friends!  Since the SBDs got circulated, no one care about the AUDs...  Except me!)...

Send them to me when you're done and I'll try them out in my Rigs (r500 and/or da20mkII)...  But some DATs are just "bad dats" and can't be saved...

Terry

***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2014, 04:06:49 AM »

Thanks Terry for your offer. I am going to continue to try and transfer these and I will give you a list of the ones that are problematic for me.


Yeah, put them aside (especially that 4/17/99 Phil and Friends!  Since the SBDs got circulated, no one care about the AUDs...  Except me!)...

Send them to me when you're done and I'll try them out in my Rigs (r500 and/or da20mkII)...  But some DATs are just "bad dats" and can't be saved...

Terry

Thanks again for the offer. I'll let you know how many of them are problematic. I'm hoping that the problem ones that are uncirculated sources can be saved, but I know that it's in the hands of the 'DAT Gods' and nothing is certain.
I was able to get a clean 1st set copy from the 4/17/99 P&F show at least, so I only need a miracle on the Second set. ;)

I wish my other decks were still working, but the D7 won't latch with a tape inside (it will when it's empty), and the DA-30 and 59 ES have transport trouble. (The 59 ES has been in a box since 1999 but I never had the heart the toss it.) The DA-P1 was a valiant work horse and fought the good fight but succumbed to motor trouble late last year.

ONT-

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 11:26:54 PM »
Ahh DAT, so glad we broke up all those years ago. Don't get me wrong, we had some fun and I loved the DAT Days ;D But I will hopefully never have to do real-time transfers ever again. Just to start over because there was a 1 second spot of diginoise 80 minutes into the set and you want a fresh transfer so you start all over :P ;D I just don't know what to do with all of my DATs?!?! I just put them in "storage" recently!

Might be that the heads were maybe misaligned and playing that tape back on anything but the original deck will probably yield some artifacts. Well, that happened to me anyway and I had similar problems as you are having now!

Its such a beautiful thing to be able to transfer 1gb/minute on my outdated PC versus waiting hours for the same thing lol :)

Best of luck!!!
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Offline Porno Gil

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Re: Errors On The Last 30-45 Minutes Of SOME of My DATs :(
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2015, 01:46:58 PM »
Perhaps you might have better luck with a DDS drive?
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