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Offline Taper Chris

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Thinking about Naiant hypers
« on: December 30, 2015, 01:29:03 PM »
Hey there I am on a considerable budget and am looking into a pair of hyper cards since my favorite band is moving into larger rooms. Hooray! I currently run CA-14 omni and CA-11 card. Looking into these: http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/x-r-microphone-system/x-r-microphone-capsule-amplifier/ at a price of about 150.00. I would run omni or cards w them for a 4 ch mix. I'm looking for some samples or recommendations of other hypers in this price range. Thanks!
"The thing about choosing the lesser of two evils is that your still choosing evil." JG

Offline acidjack

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2015, 01:44:40 PM »
Hey there I am on a considerable budget and am looking into a pair of hyper cards since my favorite band is moving into larger rooms. Hooray! I currently run CA-14 omni and CA-11 card. Looking into these: http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/x-r-microphone-system/x-r-microphone-capsule-amplifier/ at a price of about 150.00. I would run omni or cards w them for a 4 ch mix. I'm looking for some samples or recommendations of other hypers in this price range. Thanks!

I haven't used Naiant's product, but in general I'd be very, very wary of small hypers for music recording (maybe Jon has done something to his to make them more optimal for music recording). You said "band" so I'm assuming you mean rock bands.

The other alternatives at the small end are the SP-CMC-4 (aka AT853) hypers, which I have used and don't recommend, the even smaller SP-CMC-8 hypers that I'd recommend even less, and the SP-CMC-25 small hypers, which I have used and quite frankly other people have had pretty good luck with but that I didn't feel like added much for me personally. So, really, the SP-CMC-25 are the best of the small things I've heard/used (again, having not used or heard Naiant's product).

If you already have those decent cards and omnis, you may as well give the Naiants a shot, as they at least cost the least. However, I would not bother running a 4-channel mix of small mics from a single location. You'd be much better served by gaining a better understanding of how to use EQ and other editing software.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline Taper Chris

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2015, 03:33:53 PM »
I haven't used Naiant's product, but in general I'd be very, very wary of small hypers for music recording (maybe Jon has done something to his to make them more optimal for music recording). You said "band" so I'm assuming you mean rock bands.

The other alternatives at the small end are the SP-CMC-4 (aka AT853) hypers, which I have used and don't recommend, the even smaller SP-CMC-8 hypers that I'd recommend even less, and the SP-CMC-25 small hypers, which I have used and quite frankly other people have had pretty good luck with but that I didn't feel like added much for me personally. So, really, the SP-CMC-25 are the best of the small things I've heard/used (again, having not used or heard Naiant's product).

If you already have those decent cards and omnis, you may as well give the Naiants a shot, as they at least cost the least. However, I would not bother running a 4-channel mix of small mics from a single location. You'd be much better served by gaining a better understanding of how to use EQ and other editing software.

Thanks for the input! I do eq and edit w audacity. I run the omnis NOS and the cards DIN.
Here's a recent sample that I'm stoked with from College Street Music Hall: https://archive.org/details/Twiddle2015-11-28.tcca-flac16

this is a week later same capacity venue but a hall, and I'm set up about 50 feet farther back: https://archive.org/details/Twiddle2015-12-04.tcca-flac16. I think the 4 sound better than either pair of mics alone, but I haven't run card NOS or omni DIN. I found a set up that works great in the DFC but misses out in less than optimal location.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2015, 05:02:09 PM »
In general, I agree completely with AJ on mixing running multiple mics from the same position. Typically the advantage of running two stereo pairs on the same stand is being able to compare the two and gain a better understanding of how each works best alone, where and when.

However, sometimes it just sounds better to mix the two, and the only way to really find out about that is to try it yourself in various ways.  If you are set on experimenting with that, here's some suggestions to help you jump ahead and get the most out of it:

1) You probably like what you are hearing due to the omnis pair and cardioid pairs summing to produce an overall pickup pattern which resembles something like a pair of sub-cardioids, a pickup pattern which is something like a slightly directional omni.  To do that most optimally, position the microphones on each side as close together as possible, rather than in two different standard stereo setups.  Then choose a stereo setup for both pairs which is most appropriate if using a single pair of subcardioid mics - that generally means more spacing between the two than you'd use for a pair of cardioids, and less than what you'd optimally want to use for a pair of omnis.

2) Gain far more flexibility via the combination of the two by doing the exact opposite of what I just described.  Instead, mount the two pairs as far apart and in as different a setup as possible, or pointed in totally opposite directions.  That reduces the pickup of information which is common to both pairs of microphones and makes adjusting the mix ratio of the two have far more effect on controlling the resulting sound than if they are pointed pretty much in the same direction about the same distance apart.

The first suggestion is an more optimal way of achieving a different pickup pattern than that of the microphones you have available, while retaining the purity of standard two channel stereo mic techniques.  The second aims to optimize a microphone array which in combination produces something a standard two channel stereo configuration cannot.

The advantage of the second approach is that each pair can be setup to focus on what it can provide best, while keeping them out of conflict with each other, making the combination of the two more fruitful.  The most straight forward approach for that I can suggest would be your cardioids setup as PAS (point at stacks) or X/Y, in between the omnis spaced as far apart as you can manage to get them, say 2' apart at the very minimum, maybe 5' or 6' optimally (but even way more is probably fine).  Spacing the omnis that far using one stand can be a challenge, but is easier with small mics like you have.  Use your imagination, but be kind and don't block the sightlines of those behind you too badly.

Another thing you could try with a hyper or two is to space the cardioids more than you normally would for a normal 2channel setup, and put one hyper in the center facing directly forward.  Angle the cardioids apart something like +/- 45 degrees and space them a couple feet apart - about twice as far apart as you would if using them alone, because you'll have that hyper filling up the middle and that keeps the mics from stepping on each other's toes so to speak.  Use the third channel for a SBD feed if you can get one. If not, and if it bothers you to only record 3 channels when you have four available, point the other hyper directly backwards.  Then you can play around with mixing in a touch of audience reaction and room sound arriving from behind, which is probably part of what you like when using the omnis, but with far more control when mixing and far less resulting room-boom reverberance than you would get from the omnis.

I'd suggest wide-spaced omnis instead of the wide-spaced cards, in combination with a single card or hyper in the center (like I commonly do around here) but that's more appropriate outdoors.  You'll get plenty of room and audience without the boom with wide-spaced cardioids instead of the omnis indoors.  The common reason this fails to live up to the hype for most tapers is that they rarely get the wide omnis or cards spaced far enough apart, and then the addition of the center mic (or mic pair if you must) just muddies things up instead of clarifying things.  That kind of thing is exactly what often tends to happen when two standard stereo places in close proximity and pointed the same direction are mixed together, and why AJ wisely recommends EQ and other editing techniques over mixing multiple pairs of mics.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 05:06:53 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2015, 09:33:52 PM »
The two guys above me are more of an expert than I am, but I can tell you this ... I owned a set of Naiant Hypers and loved them.  I had some terrible seats in the back of a crowded venue and they did a nice job (I thought) in capturing the music and not so much of the people around me.  For a set of caps & cables under $100 I say buy 'em and try 'em.  If you don't care for them, I'm sure you could sell them easily as Naiant stuff is VERY popular (for good reason).

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 11:50:42 AM »
The two guys above me are more of an expert than I am, but I can tell you this ... I owned a set of Naiant Hypers and loved them.  I had some terrible seats in the back of a crowded venue and they did a nice job (I thought) in capturing the music and not so much of the people around me.  For a set of caps & cables under $100 I say buy 'em and try 'em.  If you don't care for them, I'm sure you could sell them easily as Naiant stuff is VERY popular (for good reason).
That's good to hear. I was certainly happy with my Naiant cardiods.

To the OP, I'd certainly consider Gut's suggestions on multi-miking. Wide-spaced omnis plus hypers pointed directly ahead/direct at stacks may be your ticket.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2016, 12:35:46 PM »
Last Saturday I ran a Naiant figure 8 (X-8S) as the Side mic in a Mid/Side pair using a DPA 4098 hyper as Mid.  It was my first time running the X-8S and I'm rather impressed with it.  Even as a figure-8, the X-8S seemed to provide more subjective bass response than the miniature DPA hyper Mid, or even the Microtech Gefell supercards I was also running into the R44 (edit- The MGs are smoother, have deeper extension, and are ultimately in another class altogether, yet the response of the X-8S had an welcome and unexpected heft in the low midbass, even though I can hear a steeper rolloff below there).  I'll explain the 4 mic setup I used in more detail below, but I'm posting partly because I'm now curious how the Naiant hyper would work in place of the DPA 4098, as I expect the frequency response of those two to be somewhat similar.

This was in a medium sized club space, recorded from the back of the sunken floor area directly in front of the soundboard.  It is a room recording of the PA predominantly, made in a decent but not spectacular sounding club with plenty of audience noise near the recording position.  I was thinking a bit about this thread when planning on what to run, and wanted to further confirm some of the ideas I've been talking about here in that kind of situation, as well as try out the X-8S.

Basically I setup as a 3-mic variation on PAS, using 3 very directional microphones angled upwards somewhat towards the hanging PA in an effort to maximize the direct sound from it and minimize the level of the audience noise, with the mics spaced enough for to compensate for the minimal angle between the three.  Mics were about 8' above the floor.  The Microtech Gefell M210 supercard pair was pointed somewhat outside of the hanging line-array PA speakers, angled a bit less than 45 degrees to either side (~90 degrees total), and the DPA 4098H hypercarioid was placed in the center pointing directly forward and also slightly upwards.  I spaced the Gefells 24" apart, and positioned the DPA about 8" farther forward of them.  I then positioned the Naiant X8S directly underneath the DPA, coincident with it, to form a Mid/Side pair in the center. 

I clamped to a staircase railing with a super-clamp, with a telescopic extension extending upwards from there. For the mic-bar, I actually used a folding steel 3-leg light-stand base flipped upside down.  I'd long ago drilled and tapped a hole at the outer end of each leg for mic mounting points when used on-stage, forming something of a miniature triangular decca-tree for use at stage level.  Instead of using it right side up as a stand-base, I flipped it upside down and fixed that atop the telescopic arm, then screwed the mic clips into the same tapped holes.  I rotated the folding legs so that two of them stuck straight out to either side (the maximum achievable width) and pointed the third directly forward.  That gave me ~24" between the outer supercards when they were angled appropriately, and I simply gaff-taped the center pair to the third forward-projecting leg.

That setup allowed me to compare a number of different combinations- the center M/S pair alone, the 90-degree/24" supercard pair alone, the 3-mic supercard + center hyper array, and the effect of "widening the middle" by using all four mics- the center M/S pair in combination with the 90-degree/24" supercard pair, adjusting the M/S ratio to best effect.

Playing the files directly off the R44 (using the R44's internal M/S matrix for the center pair), the result is really promising, and I plan to experiment further with turning the center mic of the 3-mic configurations I've been suggesting into a M/S pair.  I think variations on this, substituting either omnis, cardioids or supercards for the outside pair depending on the situation, may end up being one of the more productive ways to use four mics mounted on the same stand in combination for 2-channel stereo.

I had no camera, and the camera on my phone is worthless, but a friend took some photos of the setup.  If there is interest I'll try to get those from him and start a thread on this M/S + PAS technique.


« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 04:50:44 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2016, 04:19:06 PM »
I'm interested because I think m/s is overlooked generally and because perhaps the X-8S is a yet to be discovered gem? 

Offline acidjack

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2016, 04:42:36 PM »
I'm interested because I think m/s is overlooked generally and because perhaps the X-8S is a yet to be discovered gem?

M-S is fun to play with; I think onstage especially it's really interesting. I had an M-S rig for a while, and I've enjoyed playing with it, but ultimately decided I didn't *need* it enough to keep it. That said, I think those Naiant mics are a steal and I trust gutbucket's opinion if he says they're good. Using them for Blumlein would also be cool; again something I don't find I *need* to do really but a lot of fun to try. If you're interested in playing with M-S the Naiants may be a relatively low-cost way to do it.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 08:29:28 PM »
Hey there I am on a considerable budget and am looking into a pair of hyper cards since my favorite band is moving into larger rooms. Hooray! I currently run CA-14 omni and CA-11 card. Looking into these: http://naiant.com/studio-electronics-products/x-r-microphone-system/x-r-microphone-capsule-amplifier/ at a price of about 150.00. I would run omni or cards w them for a 4 ch mix. I'm looking for some samples or recommendations of other hypers in this price range. Thanks!

I haven't used Naiant's product, but in general I'd be very, very wary of small hypers for music recording (maybe Jon has done something to his to make them more optimal for music recording). You said "band" so I'm assuming you mean rock bands.

The other alternatives at the small end are the SP-CMC-4 (aka AT853) hypers, which I have used and don't recommend, the even smaller SP-CMC-8 hypers that I'd recommend even less, and the SP-CMC-25 small hypers, which I have used and quite frankly other people have had pretty good luck with but that I didn't feel like added much for me personally. So, really, the SP-CMC-25 are the best of the small things I've heard/used (again, having not used or heard Naiant's product).

If you already have those decent cards and omnis, you may as well give the Naiants a shot, as they at least cost the least. However, I would not bother running a 4-channel mix of small mics from a single location. You'd be much better served by gaining a better understanding of how to use EQ and other editing software.

Agreed.  I thought the AT853 Hypers sucked so I sold mine. 

Others like them though so what do I know.  Just my preference I guess.
AKG 481's, DPA 4061's (Matched), AT ES933's w/ AT853-ELE's (SC/C/O), ECM-19B's, MixPre-3, A10, M10 x 2, Hi Ho Silvers, Various Darktrain & GAKables

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2016, 03:11:41 AM »
Last Saturday I ran a Naiant figure 8 (X-8S) as the Side mic in a Mid/Side pair using a DPA 4098 hyper as Mid.  It was my first time running the X-8S and I'm rather impressed with it.  Even as a figure-8, the X-8S seemed to provide more subjective bass response than the miniature DPA hyper Mid, or even the Microtech Gefell supercards I was also running into the R44 (edit- The MGs are smoother, have deeper extension, and are ultimately in another class altogether, yet the response of the X-8S had an welcome and unexpected heft in the low midbass, even though I can hear a steeper rolloff below there).  I'll explain the 4 mic setup I used in more detail below, but I'm posting partly because I'm now curious how the Naiant hyper would work in place of the DPA 4098, as I expect the frequency response of those two to be somewhat similar.

This was in a medium sized club space, recorded from the back of the sunken floor area directly in front of the soundboard.  It is a room recording of the PA predominantly, made in a decent but not spectacular sounding club with plenty of audience noise near the recording position.  I was thinking a bit about this thread when planning on what to run, and wanted to further confirm some of the ideas I've been talking about here in that kind of situation, as well as try out the X-8S.

Basically I setup as a 3-mic variation on PAS, using 3 very directional microphones angled upwards somewhat towards the hanging PA in an effort to maximize the direct sound from it and minimize the level of the audience noise, with the mics spaced enough for to compensate for the minimal angle between the three.  Mics were about 8' above the floor.  The Microtech Gefell M210 supercard pair was pointed somewhat outside of the hanging line-array PA speakers, angled a bit less than 45 degrees to either side (~90 degrees total), and the DPA 4098H hypercarioid was placed in the center pointing directly forward and also slightly upwards.  I spaced the Gefells 24" apart, and positioned the DPA about 8" farther forward of them.  I then positioned the Naiant X8S directly underneath the DPA, coincident with it, to form a Mid/Side pair in the center. 

I clamped to a staircase railing with a super-clamp, with a telescopic extension extending upwards from there. For the mic-bar, I actually used a folding steel 3-leg light-stand base flipped upside down.  I'd long ago drilled and tapped a hole at the outer end of each leg for mic mounting points when used on-stage, forming something of a miniature triangular decca-tree for use at stage level.  Instead of using it right side up as a stand-base, I flipped it upside down and fixed that atop the telescopic arm, then screwed the mic clips into the same tapped holes.  I rotated the folding legs so that two of them stuck straight out to either side (the maximum achievable width) and pointed the third directly forward.  That gave me ~24" between the outer supercards when they were angled appropriately, and I simply gaff-taped the center pair to the third forward-projecting leg.

That setup allowed me to compare a number of different combinations- the center M/S pair alone, the 90-degree/24" supercard pair alone, the 3-mic supercard + center hyper array, and the effect of "widening the middle" by using all four mics- the center M/S pair in combination with the 90-degree/24" supercard pair, adjusting the M/S ratio to best effect.

Playing the files directly off the R44 (using the R44's internal M/S matrix for the center pair), the result is really promising, and I plan to experiment further with turning the center mic of the 3-mic configurations I've been suggesting into a M/S pair.  I think variations on this, substituting either omnis, cardioids or supercards for the outside pair depending on the situation, may end up being one of the more productive ways to use four mics mounted on the same stand in combination for 2-channel stereo.

I had no camera, and the camera on my phone is worthless, but a friend took some photos of the setup.  If there is interest I'll try to get those from him and start a thread on this M/S + PAS technique.

I'm very interested and would love to see pictures of this set up
Mics: CA-14(cards & omnis) and CA-11(cards & omnis) ; AT853's(cards, hypers, mini shotguns); Busman BSC-1 (cards, hypers, omnis)
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 09:09:38 AM »
Okay, I'll try to get the photos from my friend upon his return next week from a surfing in CostaRica.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2016, 09:42:14 AM »
Thanks Lee!  I always enjoy reading about the constant sound experimentation that you're doing.  I too would like to see the pics of the setup above.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2016, 10:35:54 AM »
My friend emailed a few photos of the setup I described above upon his return. And apparently the surfing was great!

Description of the photos below-
Superclamp attachment to stair handrail at center back edge of floor pit (stair roped off, blocked at top by soundboard).  Telescoping arm from superclamp up to inverted 3-leg lightstand base used as 3-way mic bar.  Outside pair = Microtech Geffell M310 supercards (24" wide, +/-45 degrees) in clips with "Big Ass Shure" windscreens.  Center M/S pair = Naiant X-8S Side, DPA 4098H Mid (connected directly to a DPA microdot>XLR adapter) both in smaller windscreens.  The center M/S pair was gaff-taped to the center leg, with the X-8S underneath and the DPA 4098H on top of the leg, the capsules coincidentally aligned with each other in the vertical plane and their foam windscreens touching.  All mics angled upward slightly, pointed above the audience and on-axis with the hanging PA.

This was something of a "grab enough stuff to make it happen at the last minute" setup.  I used RA XLR cables for all four mics since that was what I had on hand. Straight XLRs at the mic end for both mics forming the M/S pair would have been more appropriate, allowing those mic wires to run directly along the center leg.

(Another friend peers under the mics from the corner of the SBD cage in the photo, Galactic's sound guy next to him)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 10:38:38 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2016, 11:10:36 AM »
The photos really helped me to visualize your setup.  So my take on this is you record the PA via PAS and then use the m/s to capture more of the you are there vibe, adjusting the m/s ratio and the mix of PAS to m/s to flavor.  The hypers are used like a zoom lens to zoom in on the desired sound while screening out the audience to the degree possible. 

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2016, 12:31:53 PM »
Granted, this setup was made in part to compare the two stereo pairs, or at least how the M/S pair worked alone.

But my way of thinking about it starts from 3 supercards/hypercards pointed more or less directly at the band and PA as a way of maximizing pickup of the direct sound component available at that recording position (think of that starting point as 3-way PAS).  I then think about how to achieve sufficient stereo interest with that setup, about balancing the stereo image resulting from it, and about ways of fine-tuning the direct-to-ambient/reverberant balance.  Mic spacing and the inclusion of the side 8 help with those things.

Pointing the outside pair a bit outside of the stacks maximizes the available level difference information between those two channels (based on the pattern/angle relationship), while still keeping the direct pickup of the PA maximized.  Yet that on it's own doesn't generate enough pattern/angle sterophony for my liking, so mounting the mics widely enough helps bolster that with time-difference stereo cues.  If using PAS to maximize pickup of direct sound wasn't my primary concern and I was outdoors with this same 3-mic starting point, I'd double that mic angle and point the outside supercardioid pair 180 degrees apart.

Turning the center mic into a M/S pair helps with the secondary concerns of balancing stereo image and adjustment of the direct/reverberant balance.  It "fleshes out" the stereo image across the center, and provides non-direct ambient/reverberant sound for me to work with.

As intended and as expected, the sideways facing figure-8 picks up significantly more ambience and reverberant sound than the other 3-channels, yet all of them have a good degree of audience/room ambience and "you are there vibe" in them.  It's not as if one pair provides one thing exclusively and the other pair provides something else exclusively (although increasing that often limited difference is partly the goal of many of my multiple mic array suggestions here).  It's actually more like the 3 directional PAS mics provide the direct sound basis, setup in such a way as to get as much stereo interest as possible while achieving that, and the side-ways 8 lets me fine-tune image and ambient balance.

So in a way, the figure 8 serves something of the same roll as the rearward facing cardioid I commonly use (control of ambient balance - room and audience contribution), except it also provides some welcome control over stereo image by forming a center M/S pair.  I often like a rearward facing mic, but it that isn't very useful from this recording position, in this type of room.  This is better suited to this situation.

Not sure if that way of thinking about it is actually any more fruitful than thinking of this more as two separate stereo pairs, combined.  It's just where my thought process is coming from.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2016, 02:07:48 PM »
We would all benefit from thinking more, especially before spending. 




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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2016, 03:33:02 PM »
Ha! Truth.

My apologizes to the OP. I didn't intend to side-track the thread with an extended discussion of my weirdo multi-microphone arrays.  I do look forward to further messings around the with these Naiant X-8S mics which have inspired confidence in trying other Naiant mics, especially in light of their attractive pricing.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline SacredMetal

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2016, 11:41:26 AM »
MR. Spock: "Fascinating!"
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Thinking about Naiant hypers
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 01:14:17 AM »
FYI...There is a pair of Naiant Hypers (complete set) in the yard sale right now for good price.
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