Author Topic: Newbie putting together a setup (Read 8824 times)

TaperWill · « **on:** March 29, 2016, 11:43:44 AM »

I've spent awhile googling and searching the forums here, and this is what I've come up with that fits my budget. I figured I should toss this out and see if anyone wants to try to convince me to get something else. For instance, is it worth more money to get better shock mounts? Would I be better off with one mic as opposed to the two condensers?

My immediate need is recording a friend's band in a small venue where no soundboard recording is possible (not all instruments will run through a board), but I also want something I could use at a festival without getting completely crap audio. Yes, I know I'm going to want to upgrade mics eventually, but currently my budget is not huge.

Audio recorder: I've already got a tascam dp-008 that's been laying around, at some point I'll upgrade to a 24 bit, and something that's a bit quicker to get off the recorder, but that point is not today.

Mics: 2 Studio Project c4's: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/673282-REG/Studio_Projects_C4_C4_Small_Diaphragm_Condenser.html

With these cheap Auray windscreens: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/850366-REG/auray_whf_2040_hh_foam_20mm_1_dia_40mm_1_6.html

And Auray shock mounts: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1075738-REG/auray_shm_sd2_shock_mount_for_tubular.html

10' air-cushioned light stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89688-REG/General_Brand_LS_10AB_10_AC_Light_Stand.html

Sabra-Som ST-2 t stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/272480-REG/Sabra_Som_ST2_ST_2_Double_Microphone.html

buckster · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2016, 01:01:33 PM »

Hello and welcome! I came aboard here over a year ago for help in assembling a budget rig and I ended up going with a pair of the SP-C4's and I've been very happy with them. You may know this already but I just wanted to mention the C4's come with mounts, stereo bar and windscreens; as shown here:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C4mic?adpos=1o1&creative=105593158081&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CO76uJCu5ssCFUokhgodS3ICPA

chinariderstl · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2016, 01:10:18 PM »

I would steer clear of the Studio Projects C4 mics. I bought those as my first pair of mics and was never quite satisfied with them. You'd be better off checking the Yard Sale for a used pair of AKG's or Busman mics. The Busman BSC1's would be perfect, as would a pair of AKG SE300B/CK91's. Both of those should be in your budget.

Another good option, at your price point, are the Berliner CM33 mics. Those are not bad mics.

http://www.amazon.com/Berliner-Diaphragm-Condenser-Microphones-Overheads/dp/B006JPA9C4

If you're considering one mic, you might look into the various Audio-Technica stereo mics on the market. The AT822, AT8022, and the BP4025 are all solid mics.

A used AT822 would be well-within your budget as should the AT8022; the BP4025 is a little pricey and might be above your price point.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602080-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8022_AT8022_X_Y_Stereo_Phantom.html

voltronic · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2016, 06:35:11 PM »

Not just for newbies at all, but Naiant products are top notch. Send Jon an email and he will set you up with exactly what you need.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2016, 06:43:41 PM »

And if recording outdoors, you'll most likely need better screens than those Auray screens

Here are some cheap alternatives to the big boy Rycote with about the same construction! Movo makes some decent screens we've been trying out the last year or so, and so far they've performed great, at only $15-$18/per mic

Movo WST50 "Rycote Super Softie" clone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Movo-WST50-Ballistic-Acoustic-Nylon-Microphone-Windscreen-for-3cm-Shotgun-Mics-/381293477529?hash=item58c6dcbe99:g:EaMAAOSw~OdVe0t6

Or the fur covered Movo 6cm WS80's[or the 3cm version of the WS80, the WS50] "Rycote Classic Softie" clone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Movo-WS80-Pro-Windscreen-w-Acoustic-Foam-for-Shotgun-Microphones-up-to-6cm-Long-/381145937711?hash=item58be11772f:g:0tIAAOSw2s1U0VBA

Movo 3cm WS50

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Movo-WS50-Pro-Windscreen-w-Acoustic-Foam-for-Shotgun-Microphones-up-to-3cm-Long-/381145939113?hash=item58be117ca9:g:XWkAAOSwqu9U0VEx

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2016, 06:50:22 PM »

I would run SP C4>XLR>Tascam 70D and be done with it! IMO the C4's are great beginner mics! Ive heard way more good C4 tapes than the AKG Blueline 390's, but as always, YMMV

And you can get a Tascam 70D NEW for only $260 at B+H, or used here on ts.com for around $150-$175

IMO the preamps are great too! On par with my VMS in most cases

That's why I just sold my last Sony M10 and got another Tascam 70D

H₂O · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2016, 08:45:37 PM »

Save up and buy a pair of schoeps mk4's. > kcy > PFA > dr-70d - if you are smart and patient you can get this $1600-1900 - it may seem like a lot but well worth it in the long run

Make it a long term goal

MakersMarc · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2016, 08:56:54 PM »

^ this. You know it will sound great and all components show up here from time to time. Or save some money and go with AKG ckxx caps, nbobs and a PFA, I think that comes in at more like 1100-1300. And will sound great.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2016, 10:50:57 PM »

^^^ Both are great suggestions, depending on your budget of course

willndmb · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2016, 12:23:24 PM »

Welcome
Personally I would take the advice and save up for some better mice like the BM or AKG 391 too
I would also get way better windscreens if you are taping outside, DPA makes the common ones used http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/282432-REG/DPA_Microphones_UA0896_UA0896_Windscreen_for_0_75.html
I would also get a different tbar. I like this one because it is flexible and gives you lots of options http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286149-REG/AKG_KM235_1_KM235_1_Stereo_Microphone_Bar.html
as for shocks, Im not a fan of the rubber band ones like you linked although they are fine for most people. I always used these cheap ones and they worked great for me http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html I used it on 22mm mice just fine too
I would recommend trying to find a 12' stand. I have a 12 and there have been lots of times I wished it was higher. The difference in cost and size is minimal to when you could have used the extra height.
If you go with a d70 recorder make sure you read up on the cards to use. I have a d60 and love it though.
you can get cheaper cables all over the place but it is worth checking into darktrain or teds customs imo

TaperWill · « **Reply #10 on:** March 30, 2016, 04:24:08 PM »

Thanks for all the suggestions! I'm in no rush, so I've still got some time to check out yard sale options and whatnot.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #11 on:** March 31, 2016, 02:33:45 PM »

^ It is cheaper in the long run to be very judicious about what you buy to start with instead of buying this and that, selling and trading up several times.

On the other hand, it's hard to pick stuff without having actually having used it. you are wise to ask questions before spending your money.

One thing I appreciate about TS is the ingenuity of the members in finding various combinations of gear to record with in compact packages.

chinariderstl · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2016, 02:41:24 PM »

^ This; I couldn't have said it any better.

acidjack · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2016, 05:53:00 PM »

Quote from: 2manyrocks on March 31, 2016, 02:33:45 PM

^ It is cheaper in the long run to be very judicious about what you buy to start with instead of buying this and that, selling and trading up several times.

On the other hand, it's hard to pick stuff without having actually having used it. you are wise to ask questions before spending your money.

One thing I appreciate about TS is the ingenuity of the members in finding various combinations of gear to record with in compact packages.

This.

For that reason, though, I'd say -- get an inexpensive deck like the Tascam DR-60D (4 channels, funny looking, but works and cheap and has phantom power). Go with those C4s -- they're not bad, they're cheap, and the resale is OK.

That way, if you want to upgrade, the rest of your rig (including the cables, mounts, etc.) is solid, so you're only taking a loss on the mics. I normally say "buy nice or buy twice" but in this case, I don't think I'd tell someone who has never taped at all to just run out and buy Schoeps. I'd say, roughly, buy this rig, and if you like taping after a year or two, then buy Schoeps

voltronic · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2016, 06:18:05 PM »

OK, here I go again everyone. I just looked at the price of those SP C4s. If you're in that price range, I strongly urge you to go with Line Audio CM3. They are much higher quality mics than the SP mics, and you really would need to move up to Schoeps, DPA, Gefell, etc. for a more refined sound. Under $300 shipped from NoHypeAudio in Belgium (no, you can't purchase in the US but the transaction with this dealer is flawless as many can attest).

Follow the Team Line Audio link in my signature for full info, many samples, and ordering info. If anyone thinks I'm just being a fanboy or exaggerating their quality, check out the first link there for a shootout with the Schoeps equivalent, the MK21.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2016, 07:22:06 PM »

I've never owned or used SP C4's. I see they come with both omni and card capsules.

I own Line Audio CM3s which have a wider card pattern. Nice, small, and don't suffer from cheap shrillness that you often find with less expensive condenser mics. Very much worth considering.

But if somebody puts up a pair of DPA 4061s in the YS for $300-$400, those are the ones I'd be looking at.

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2016, 08:59:13 PM »

Quote from: voltronic on March 31, 2016, 06:18:05 PM

OK, here I go again everyone. I just looked at the price of those SP C4s. If you're in that price range, I strongly urge you to go with Line Audio CM3. They are much higher quality mics than the SP mics, and you really would need to move up to Schoeps, DPA, Gefell, etc. for a more refined sound. Under $300 shipped from NoHypeAudio in Belgium (no, you can't purchase in the US but the transaction with this dealer is flawless as many can attest).

Follow the Team Line Audio link in my signature for full info, many samples, and ordering info. If anyone thinks I'm just being a fanboy or exaggerating their quality, check out the first link there for a shootout with the Schoeps equivalent, the MK21.

Damn, I am IMPRESSED with those CM3's

I still preferred the balance of the Schoeps mk21 on thast sample, but I would be ecstatic with either of those

I might have to get a pair just so I have some subcards again! I didn't use my old mk21s enough to justify keeping them! But the CM3 are affordable enough that I can afford to keep them around lol

And now that I have a 2nd 70d, I can run 6 channels pretty easily! CM3>XLR>70d I bet would sound DANK from the sweet spot or on stage

Wishing I had [2] DR-701d's though, so that I could cascade the two units together so all 8 channels I have now would be time synced

And another thing, the CM3's are TINY! About the size of a normal XLR plug

Thanks for the heads up Volt

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2016, 09:01:19 PM »

Has anyone that owns the CM3's used them with screens

They're almost too small

Barely enough room for a screen and shockmount

voltronic · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2016, 10:03:57 PM »

Quote from: F.O.Bean on March 31, 2016, 09:01:19 PM

Has anyone that owns the CM3's used them with screens They're almost too small Barely enough room for a screen and shockmount

Yes, I use my DIY shocks with Rycote lyres that are spaced pretty much as wide as on an INV-6, and for screens I use the Rode WS8s I bought from you!

Everything fits and works great. I'll link some pics later on.

admkrk · « **Reply #19 on:** April 01, 2016, 01:35:20 AM »

Quote from: willndmb on March 30, 2016, 12:23:24 PM

I would recommend trying to find a 12' stand. I have a 12 and there have been lots of times I wished it was higher.

I would recommend a taller stand also, but see no reason to go above 7' or 8'. The reason for having a taller stand is so that the sections are not extended to their maximum. If you extend any section all the way, you lose a lot of stability, and it will be wobbly even without mics mounted on it.

chinariderstl · « **Reply #20 on:** April 01, 2016, 11:32:37 AM »

Quote from: voltronic on March 29, 2016, 06:35:11 PM

Not just for newbies at all, but Naiant products are top notch. Send Jon an email and he will set you up with exactly what you need.

Fyi, this was just posted in another thread. It might be worth checking out.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177072.0

The Naiant X-R spaced omnis sound wonderful; pretty hard to beat at about $150 a pair.

acidjack · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2016, 01:53:04 PM »

Quote from: voltronic on March 31, 2016, 06:18:05 PM

OK, here I go again everyone. I just looked at the price of those SP C4s. If you're in that price range, I strongly urge you to go with Line Audio CM3. They are much higher quality mics than the SP mics, and you really would need to move up to Schoeps, DPA, Gefell, etc. for a more refined sound. Under $300 shipped from NoHypeAudio in Belgium (no, you can't purchase in the US but the transaction with this dealer is flawless as many can attest).

Follow the Team Line Audio link in my signature for full info, many samples, and ordering info. If anyone thinks I'm just being a fanboy or exaggerating their quality, check out the first link there for a shootout with the Schoeps equivalent, the MK21.

...except they are subcards, which are not really optimal for anything other than way up close recording (and in my opinion, are often not optimal for that). They may be a high quality mic (I have no data point one way or the other) but it's unquestionable that they are less versatile than the SP-C4s, or any cardiod mic, for the kind of taping the OP seems to be describing.

voltronic · « **Reply #22 on:** April 01, 2016, 02:02:37 PM »

Quote from: acidjack on April 01, 2016, 01:53:04 PM

Quote from: voltronic on March 31, 2016, 06:18:05 PM
OK, here I go again everyone. I just looked at the price of those SP C4s. If you're in that price range, I strongly urge you to go with Line Audio CM3. They are much higher quality mics than the SP mics, and you really would need to move up to Schoeps, DPA, Gefell, etc. for a more refined sound. Under $300 shipped from NoHypeAudio in Belgium (no, you can't purchase in the US but the transaction with this dealer is flawless as many can attest).

Follow the Team Line Audio link in my signature for full info, many samples, and ordering info. If anyone thinks I'm just being a fanboy or exaggerating their quality, check out the first link there for a shootout with the Schoeps equivalent, the MK21.
...except they are subcards, which are not really optimal for anything other than way up close recording (and in my opinion, are often not optimal for that). They may be a high quality mic (I have no data point one way or the other) but it's unquestionable that they are less versatile than the SP-C4s, or any cardiod mic, for the kind of taping the OP seems to be describing.

I actually find them to have much more flexibility than cardiods. They have reduced proximity effect, have less loss of bass at a distance, and are more forgiving of vertical angle position compared at all of the cardiod mics I've used. I've used them lots of times at "taper" distances, and some compression and EQ restores HF losses when needed.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #23 on:** April 01, 2016, 04:29:53 PM »

If the OP is recording in a club full of chatty patrons, then that suggests a card or hyper card pattern to try to reduce the audible chat.

I suspect Voltronic and I are recording in better controlled audience situations where the CM3 actually works pretty well.

TaperWill · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2016, 11:30:17 AM »

Quote from: TaperWill on March 29, 2016, 11:43:44 AM

10' air-cushioned light stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89688-REG/General_Brand_LS_10AB_10_AC_Light_Stand.html

May be a dumb question, but how do you attach the mic t-stand to this? Light stands have a different top than mic stands, right?

hoppedup · « **Reply #25 on:** April 07, 2016, 11:46:55 AM »

Quote from: TaperWill on April 07, 2016, 11:30:17 AM

Quote from: TaperWill on March 29, 2016, 11:43:44 AM
10' air-cushioned light stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/89688-REG/General_Brand_LS_10AB_10_AC_Light_Stand.html

May be a dumb question, but how do you attach the mic t-stand to this? Light stands have a different top than mic stands, right?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298908-REG/WindTech_MPC_10_Multi_Position_C_Type_Clamp.html

OR

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894541-REG/K_M_23800_500_55_238_Microphone_Holder.html

Fried Chicken Boy · « **Reply #26 on:** April 07, 2016, 12:55:41 PM »

Quote from: hoppedup on April 07, 2016, 11:46:55 AM

Quote from: TaperWill on April 07, 2016, 11:30:17 AM
May be a dumb question, but how do you attach the mic t-stand to this? Light stands have a different top than mic stands, right?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298908-REG/WindTech_MPC_10_Multi_Position_C_Type_Clamp.html

OR

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894541-REG/K_M_23800_500_55_238_Microphone_Holder.html

OR, a Manfrotto Rapid Adapter which will slide right onto the 5/8" stud on the top of most light stands. The mic T-bar will screw onto the top of the Rapid Adapter.
The WindTech C-clamp will probably give you the most versatility but it never hurts to have a few options in your gear bag, and the Rapid Adapter is pretty inexpensive.

Different ways to skin this cat.

TaperWill · « **Reply #27 on:** April 07, 2016, 06:38:37 PM »

You all are awesome. Going with the windtech at least for now. And if anyone cares, I decided on the c4's. Did some browsing of better quality used mics, but didn't really feel comfortable with any of them. And I've listened to a bunch of stuff on the LMA and overall was pleased with what I heard. Thanks!