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Offline MBHOTAPER

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Low pro advice
« on: May 03, 2017, 07:53:28 PM »
Please pm me on advice if uneasy on posting advice.
I have 12th row (close to dfc) for jimmy herring with McLaughlin. Jimmy is cool but we all know McLaughlin is a no.
I have activates but my pmd 661 is too large for a wand. What is the smallest recorder with phantom power you would suggest?
Are there any smaller rigs with quality sound equal to phantom powered mics that are a better option?
Thanks for the advice guys I really want to tape this show.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 12:20:13 AM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Stealth advice
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 11:10:55 PM »
Please pm if concerned about posting recommendations.
The babynbox is a great suggestion - thanks man. Any decks smaller or less obvious/metal than the r5 & m10?
Appreciate the help guys
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 11:54:03 PM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline seethreepo

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 01:49:14 PM »
Naint IPA / PFA   but the lead time might not work but its tiny. 


Offline eman

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 05:55:47 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 06:31:10 PM by eman »
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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2017, 07:45:30 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.

Please.  That is not the answer.   :banging head:

Offline John Willett

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2017, 05:05:38 AM »
Please pm me on advice if uneasy on posting advice.
I have 12th row (close to dfc) for jimmy herring with McLaughlin. Jimmy is cool but we all know McLaughlin is a no.
I have activates but my pmd 661 is too large for a wand. What is the smallest recorder with phantom power you would suggest?
Are there any smaller rigs with quality sound equal to phantom powered mics that are a better option?
Thanks for the advice guys I really want to tape this show.

How about a pair of DPA 4060 with the new d:vice directly into an iPhone ?   :coolguy:



Offline edtyre

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2017, 01:30:13 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.

Please.  That is not the answer.   :banging head:

I have a Shure MV-88 that i keep in my car for emergency situations. I have made a few test recordings
that weren't too bad. Not close to the Schoeps, but beats any internal mics.
http://www.shure.com/americas/motiv/mv88
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2017, 03:46:43 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.

Please.  That is not the answer.   :banging head:

How about a pair of DPA 4060 with the new d:vice directly into an iPhone ?   :coolguy:

Tech evolves, and once crapistic solutions sometimes become viable options.  I expect the DPA system will be an perfectly acceptable answer in terms of sound quality, and should be easy to stealth.  We'll find out once it is actually released.  Not at all thrilled about the radial input configuration for pocket-ability reasons, but everything else looks good excellent for this application.  As I posted in the dedicated thread about it, I'd be an early adopter if they made a 4 (or more) channel version, although I doubt that will happen.  Personally I'd suggest buying an old iphone for use with it, dedicated to recording only. 
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Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2017, 04:59:03 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.

Please.  That is not the answer.   :banging head:
I was considering the new dpa d:vice preamp (2x2 inches) for dpa microdot mics. Why do you think this is a non starter? Also considering the mostly plastic babynbox with my actives and a small deck (down side no xlr inputs).
Thanks guys getting ready for November herring and McLaughlin show.

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2017, 12:54:36 PM »
That dpa round thing will be a botch to  >:D with particularly if you don't go incognito much. You've got the mbhos and actives, add an IPA or baby nbox and m10 or other little deck and you're set.
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2017, 03:05:58 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.

Please.  That is not the answer.   :banging head:
I was considering the new dpa d:vice preamp (2x2 inches) for dpa microdot mics. Why do you think this is a non starter? Also considering the mostly plastic babynbox with my actives and a small deck (down side no xlr inputs).
Thanks guys getting ready for November herring and McLaughlin show.

At least with dpa's the mics are good but I question the quality of analog to digital conversion quality in a phone.  It is a marginal solution at best in my opinion and a small recorder is not that hard to get in. 

Offline pontiacb

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2017, 03:49:01 PM »
Consider some kind of iPhone (Android?) based system. I'm not sure what the hardware would look like, but probably quite a bit less bulky than a recorder. Figure out what the oldest model is you can use, and dedicate that with no service plan for it.

Please.  That is not the answer.   :banging head:

I have a Shure MV-88 that i keep in my car for emergency situations. I have made a few test recordings
that weren't too bad. Not close to the Schoeps, but beats any internal mics.
http://www.shure.com/americas/motiv/mv88
I'd also recommend this set up - has served me well when getting my rig past security has proved too much of a challenge.  Customer service at Shure was fantastic when I had an issue with the app as well.

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2017, 05:52:28 PM »
That dpa round thing will be a botch to  >:D with particularly if you don't go incognito much. You've got the mbhos and actives, add an IPA or baby nbox and m10 or other little deck and you're set.
I'm not very familiar with the ipa setup. Are my mic bodies still in the setup? Thanks
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:51:55 AM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2017, 06:17:44 PM »
I believe Jon at naiant can customize the IPA inputs  for your mbho actives. Check out the IPA page at naiant.com. It is metal though so I wonder if the baby nbox is better for passing metal detectors?
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2017, 06:23:57 PM »
I believe Jon at naiant can customize the IPA inputs  for your mbho actives. Check out the IPA page at naiant.com. It is metal though so I wonder if the baby nbox is better for passing metal detectors?
Looked at the site both a battery box and amp nice. They do offer mbho options also. Question does it support 2 mics or are 2 ipas needed? Yes metal but small and amp is probably better than the m10. Any phone number for Jon. Thanks
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:51:02 AM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2017, 07:07:07 PM »
Need help - I can't find nicks adress for his new baby nbix.

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 07:53:18 PM »
pm sent

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2017, 09:06:42 PM »
I believe Jon at naiant can customize the IPA inputs  for your mbho actives. Check out the IPA page at naiant.com. It is metal though so I wonder if the baby nbox is better for passing metal detectors?
Looked at the site both a battery box and preamp nice. They do offer mbho options also. Question does it support 2 mics or are 2 ipas needed? Yes metal but small and preamp is probably better than the m10 or other small deck. Appears kcy is needed fof schoeps only fortunately. Any phone number for Jon - I'll call Monday when they're open. Thanks

Only one IPA needed I believe. Www.naiant.com. Best is to email Jon, his email is linked at the site. Love the little thing so much I'm getting a backup.
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2017, 03:18:58 PM »
I believe Jon at naiant can customize the IPA inputs  for your mbho actives. Check out the IPA page at naiant.com. It is metal though so I wonder if the baby nbox is better for passing metal detectors?
Looked at the site both a battery box and preamp nice. They do offer mbho options also. Question does it support 2 mics or are 2 ipas needed? Yes metal but small and preamp is probably better than the m10 or other small deck. Appears kcy is needed fof schoeps only fortunately. Any phone number for Jon - I'll call Monday when they're open. Thanks

Only one IPA needed I believe. Www.naiant.com. Best is to email Jon, his email is linked at the site. Love the little thing so much I'm getting a backup.
Looks as both babynbox and ipa provide power and amplification.
Ipa plus up to 3 gain settings but metal
Nbox plus mostly plastic no gain settings
Any other major plus or minus
Thanks guys all this information is very helpful.

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2017, 04:21:16 PM »
Baby nbox does not provide gain.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2017, 04:42:00 PM »
At least with dpa's the mics are good but I question the quality of analog to digital conversion quality in a phone.  It is a marginal solution at best in my opinion and a small recorder is not that hard to get in.

The d:vice contains an ADC, so the phone only functions as a bit bucket. Since you can record relatively high resolution video with an iPhone, the digital audio data shouldn't be a problem.

Also, I don't get why this thing would be such a "botch" to stealth with. Granted it may not be the most convenient form factor, but it is tiny (56 mm diameter) and light (50 g) and gets rid of the recorder...

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2017, 07:47:40 PM »
At least with dpa's the mics are good but I question the quality of analog to digital conversion quality in a phone.  It is a marginal solution at best in my opinion and a small recorder is not that hard to get in.

The d:vice contains an ADC, so the phone only functions as a bit bucket. Since you can record relatively high resolution video with an iPhone, the digital audio data shouldn't be a problem.

Also, I don't get why this thing would be such a "botch" to stealth with. Granted it may not be the most convenient form factor, but it is tiny (56 mm diameter) and light (50 g) and gets rid of the recorder...

Are you saying the A/D converter is comparable to an M10, DR-2D or R-05?   

Offline mountaintaper

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2017, 06:48:25 AM »

Looks as both babynbox and ipa provide power and amplification.
Ipa plus up to 3 gain settings but metal
Nbox plus mostly plastic no gain settings
Any other major plus or minus
Thanks guys all this information is very helpful.

IPA doesn't set off metal detectors...I have walked my schoeps/IPA/R-05 through them a few times now.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2017, 07:45:30 AM »
Are you saying the A/D converter is comparable to an M10, DR-2D or R-05?

No, I am saying that the analog to digital conversion takes place in the MMA-A and not in the iPhone.  Given the age of those recorders, however, not to mention the price tag of the MMA-A, I would be very surprised if the DPA ADC isn't better than those others...

Offline gormenghast

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2017, 05:20:17 PM »

Looks as both babynbox and ipa provide power and amplification.
Ipa plus up to 3 gain settings but metal
Nbox plus mostly plastic no gain settings
Any other major plus or minus
Thanks guys all this information is very helpful.

IPA doesn't set off metal detectors...I have walked my schoeps/IPA/R-05 through them a few times now.

Been wanded a few times  :o  Pocket full of change, car and house keys in another pocket, and belt buckle.  Most obvious metal on me--obvious because my right hand has some metal in it too.  Never set anything off but once.  At Journey and Asia recently and security announces they are wanded everyone saying even gum wrapper will set off their wands.  Guy in front of me panics and has his hands full everything possible that could be metal.  My daughter has her extra battery for her phone and they didn't say a thing about it.     
Schoeps MK4/41/41v @ 70°>R05

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 05:29:31 PM »
Remain amazed that Journey and Asia shows have that kind of budget.
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Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2017, 01:29:34 AM »
Baby nbox does not provide gain.
Leaning towards mbho caps > actives > ipa or babynbox > m10 for lo pro rig.

This is what I've learned from you guys on an ipa vs babbynbox:
The babbynbox has one setting but is for mic in (using deck pre). Unit is mostly plastic. Biger than the ipa but stealthable. Sole fuction is a batter box. Has mini xlr and tr6 connections.
IPA has 3 gain settings and goes line in (no confirmation if line or mic in) into an m10.
Does the ipa inline amplifier fuction like an attinuator (what does it do). Do the inline ampifiers reduce noise levels/hiss that occur in small decks with mediocre pres (like an m10)? The ipa is mostly metal but is very small so stealthy.
Ipa has xlr connections.
Does anyone have experience using both units - which sounds better?
Any other preferences or differences in these units?
Thanks guys all this information has been very helpful
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 08:12:12 AM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline jbell

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2017, 09:23:06 AM »
With the IPA you would want to go line in and use the gain from the IPA!  For stealth the IPA would be hard to beat if you are running full sized caps.
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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2017, 10:20:38 AM »
"I'm not the wook you're looking for" ;D
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2017, 10:27:36 AM »
Even with the NBox Platinum Tascam DR-2D and Schoeps MK4/MK41 getting in through metal detectors using a little creativity I have had a success rate over 95%  only one time I failed, (the gear was inside but was caught handling off the gear back at bag check) it was my fault after 2 weekends of festivals and 4 other shows.

Compared to the old days this is all pretty easy.

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2017, 12:15:00 PM »
To my ears, the naiant IPA and the platinum nbox sound very, very similar. Solid. So I'd guess IPA vs. baby nbox is probably a wash. The deciding factors for me were size and my wish not to run mic in to an M10 with a need for lots of gain.It's a fine recorder but just not sure it's pres are up to snuff. Keep in mind you need an A23 battery for the IPA, it will go 8-10 hours. I do two shows and recycle it. 3.50 for a two pack at Walmart.
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2017, 10:32:17 PM »
To my ears, the naiant IPA and the platinum nbox sound very, very similar. Solid. So I'd guess IPA vs. baby nbox is probably a wash. The deciding factors for me were size and my wish not to run mic in to an M10 with a need for lots of gain.It's a fine recorder but just not sure it's pres are up to snuff. Keep in mind you need an A23 battery for the IPA, it will go 8-10 hours. I do two shows and recycle it. 3.50 for a two pack at Walmart.
Very helpful thanks.
I was concerned about running mic in on the M10 with the babynbox depending solely on the m10 pre for gain. It sounds like the inline amplifier on the ipa is like an old attinuator used on small dats to improve the noise floor and reduce hiss due to poor pres in all in one decks.
I also like the secure xlr jacks on the ipa.
The Oade brothers are now doing pre mods on any deck these days (manufacturers warentee voided) so I may mod my m10 pre ae well (still used with line in [ipa] or mic in [babynbox].
Thanks again guys for all the help!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 10:36:07 PM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 10:37:19 PM »
To my ears, the naiant IPA and the platinum nbox sound very, very similar. Solid. So I'd guess IPA vs. baby nbox is probably a wash. The deciding factors for me were size and my wish not to run mic in to an M10 with a need for lots of gain.It's a fine recorder but just not sure it's pres are up to snuff. Keep in mind you need an A23 battery for the IPA, it will go 8-10 hours. I do two shows and recycle it. 3.50 for a two pack at Walmart.
Which gain setting do you usually use on your ipa?
Thanks a lot!

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 11:20:50 PM »
Always -18 and have always had enough gain. For reference, the nbox has 20 db gain, and that also always meets my needs, jazz to loud ass rock. You can order an IPA fixed too. I opted for slotted recessed 9/18/27 gain which should cover it all.
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2017, 11:43:25 PM »
Always -18 and have always had enough gain. For reference, the nbox has 20 db gain, and that also always meets my needs, jazz to loud ass rock. You can order an IPA fixed too. I opted for slotted recessed 9/18/27 gain which should cover it all.
I'm going with the ipa for my mbho caps.
I've been wanting a second set of mics at festies for awhile.  Might just pick up some caps and get an ipa for them.

On your ipa was your choice of sloted instead of spindle gain setting for a more secure setting or other reasoning ?

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 03:54:49 AM by MBHOTAPER »

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2017, 11:15:40 AM »
More secure, it probably didn't matter but I didn't want the spindle moving in my pocket. I opted for both the male xlr and 1/8 outputs the extra size doesn't matter much to me, about an inch. But I believe you can go smaller and opt for just 1/8. Thing is still so small.

Edit: you can get xlr only or xlr and 1/8 but not 1/8 only. It's actually the addition of the 1/8 out that extends the case. You can also get the xlr>1/8'cable from Jon, 15 bucks. Just ask him and he'll direct you to the right option.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 11:58:48 AM by MakersMarc »
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Offline gormenghast

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2017, 12:23:52 PM »
Just so you know, the cables coming out of the Schoeps battery box are as secure as the XLR coming out of the IPA.  I have both.     
Schoeps MK4/41/41v @ 70°>R05

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2017, 12:26:38 PM »
More secure, it probably didn't matter but I didn't want the spindle moving in my pocket. I opted for both the male xlr and 1/8 outputs the extra size doesn't matter much to me, about an inch. But I believe you can go smaller and opt for just 1/8. Thing is still so small.

Edit: you can get xlr only or xlr and 1/8 but not 1/8 only. It's actually the addition of the 1/8 out that extends the case. You can also get the xlr>1/8'cable from Jon, 15 bucks. Just ask him and he'll direct you to the right option.
"Might as well" get both the xlr and 1/8 stereo outputs just in case.
So the xlr out is a stereo output as is the 1/8. Does jon makes a y cable for the xlr out? Is the xlr in also a stereo in requiring a y xlr cable in. Assuming I can get them from Jon.
Definitely getting the ipa. I need to decide if I should wait for some good caps to come up in the yard sale and get an ipa for them (2nd mic set for festies) or get an ipa for my mbhos.
Thanks for helping me make this decision.

Offline fobstl

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2017, 12:28:22 PM »
Just so you know, the cables coming out of the Schoeps battery box are as secure as the XLR coming out of the IPA.  I have both.     
Do you have any thoughts on the sound quality between the two?

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2017, 12:29:21 PM »
He does make a single stereo xlr>1/8 beyond that you'd have to ask him. Before you order I'd email him and explain your needs, he'll give you the info to input on the ordering page.
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline gormenghast

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Re: Low pro advice
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2017, 03:45:14 PM »
Just so you know, the cables coming out of the Schoeps battery box are as secure as the XLR coming out of the IPA.  I have both.     
Do you have any thoughts on the sound quality between the two?


Not yet.

I'm waiting for cables from Nick for the Schoeps battery box.  The IPA and cables just arrived for my JB Modded NAK 300's.  So, different mics and power supplies and pre's. 
Schoeps MK4/41/41v @ 70°>R05

 

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