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Author Topic: Front of stage mic height?  (Read 2644 times)

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 12:45:01 PM »
But asses the audience, it may attract shout outs and direct-at-mics yelling!

Best typo ever?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2017, 01:12:10 PM »
Freudian typo!  Ha!

It's the element of truth..
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2017, 05:50:11 PM »
There needs to be a talkerssection.    :tomato:

Offline nak700s

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2017, 06:01:56 PM »
There needs to be a talkerssection.    :tomato:

There is, it's outside, but they don't care about anyone other than themselves.  :banging head:
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2017, 12:57:25 AM »
so I need some way to drop a single vertical pole about a foot long from an unknown truss thingy.

Perhaps the community here could put together a gear shopping list?

Although a Manfrotto Superclamp and one of their "Magic Arms" might work, I'd recommend a Cardellini / Matthellini clamp with their Extendellini extension which will allow you to clamp to wider features (the actual stage-lip, trusses or poles). Get a Manfrotto MA026 sviwel umbrella adapter, too. Don't skimp on a good safety cable (https://m.thomann.de/gb/major_saveking_4mm_10m_40kg_silver.htm?o=27&search=1498017347).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 01:19:19 AM by if_then_else »

Offline mixedplate

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2017, 02:09:01 AM »
Further to Gutbucket’s suggestion about going low on the stage, you might try putting a split pair of Crown directional boundary mics (“PCC”) on the stage lip.  No visual impact (well you might have to tape off the red LED) and sometimes can give a pretty clean recording of what’s happening on stage.  Just a thought.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2017, 09:33:12 AM »
Yes, Crown PCC and other makes of directional boundary layer mics such as AT, Shure, etc, work the same way as standard directional mics used close to the stage.   The primary difference is that they are built specifically for that task with tough, low-profile, rubber-footed housings, strong enough to be accidentally trampled upon.  Resting directly on the floor, they can sometimes pick up somewhat more structure-born vibes from heavy footstomps or whatever, but usually have pretty heavy steel housings to help damp that primarily through the mass holding the mic firm against the floor rather than isolating via an elastic suspension.
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Offline thatjackelliott

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2017, 10:17:58 AM »
On the matter of floor-borne vibrations (footfalls, enthusiastic guitar player leaping about, etc.) I'd like to hear from anyone who has tried these mics on a festival stage -- such stages are erected at the site and have floors that are essentially sheets of plywood laid atop crossbeams with little or no damping. I'd be very surprised if they don't pick up a lot of unwanted noise.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2017, 11:37:31 AM »
Directional boundary mics are commonly used for theatrical productions where its otherwise hard to mic the action in an unobtrusive way without wireless mics on everyone, but I wouldn't be surprised if the mics are high-passed for those applications as their main intent is dialog.  I recall a sound tech friend commenting on how loud tap-dancing pickup can be, and having to accommodate for that in the PA mix.

I have a single AT cardioid boundary mic (basically the same as a Crown PCC), but I've not actually used that mic for on-the-stage music taping.  I've mostly used DPA miniature omnis 4060/4061 in the DPA hard-rubber boundary mounts taped down onto the stage - typically indoor suspended wooden stages constructed from 2x4 or 2x6 lumber rather than plywood over aluminum or steel scaffolding type temporary festival stages - and haven't experienced problems with structure-born noise pickup doing that, but that type of stage construction is a bit sturdier, and those mics are omnis so they are somewhat less susceptible to handling and structure-born noise to begin with.  Music I've done that way ranged from acoustic jazz and string music to small group electric stuff - nothing with massive subwoofer content.

Never did that for a festival and wouldn't trust the rubber DPA mounts and thin lav wiring to sufficiently protect the mics and cables for something like a festival with lots of band changes where I wasn't able to watch the mics the whole time.  But I would consider using the AT or some other more-armored boundary mics in that scenario.  May be a good idea to put something like a sheet of compliant rubber padding under the mic and gaff tape the mic, it's pad and the cable all down securely to the stage surface.  The combination of the relatively heavy steel mic construction and compliant rubber pad makes for a sprung/mass/constrained-layer combination which is the basis upon which all vibration isolation works, including traditional mic shock mounts, car suspensions, washing machine internals, industrial machines..

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Offline Moke

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2017, 11:46:34 AM »

Pretty much any stage is built of plywood over some form of framing. In fact, the finest concert halls in the world have stages that can be broken down, configs changed, raised, lowered in sections or in whole.
I record a whole buch of acoustic music on concert hall stages.  They're quite typically built with squared dimensions throughout the areas behind the stage curtain, with exception to the last 8 to 10 feet, the stage-lip edge, where they often curve outwardly.  That curved outer portion of a concert stage is often times completely removed, to create a proper sunken orchestra pit in front of the stage.
In a concert hall, there are a whole bunch of facilities below the stages.
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Offline Moke

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2017, 12:01:56 PM »
I carry a set of three Sorbothane cups/pucks in my bag, and I use them all the time in different ways.
Last week, I set my binaural head on the stage edge. This was an aluminum frame covered in masonite hardboard stage, folding stage, 4 pieces, much like folding tables, that created a stage that was probably 8' deep x 12' wide.  I put the head on its storage/torso box onto the stage on a trio of the sorbothane cups as shock mounting.
I use these cups for mic stand feet, when floor mounting in carpeted halls; a huge amount of noise can come from tightly tensioned carpet.

last week, front of stage height,... a cheap folding aluminum frame hardboard skinned folding stage...
binaural, 35cm@90º, DPA4060 spread 60cm at stage lip
the binaural head torso box is mounted onto a triangularly arranged sorbothane cups.
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Offline Moke

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2017, 01:29:41 PM »
Stage mount PZM,..
In the image, you can see a stage mounted PZM at the edge. There were two, one on either side of the stage. They were part of the videographers rig.
I was at this concert 2 hours early, and got set up in a small alcove that lead to the stage. That is my cable set running to the stage wings.
At any rate, I sat there and watched the near misses of people that just weren't paying attention to where they were stepping.  The musicians were the issue. They'd come to the stage edge, and talk to friends, other musicians, whoever, and they were oblivious to that PZM there. It made for some mild entertainment, wondering which shoe heel was going to kill the mic,.... while the clocked ticked towards the baton drop.
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Offline Moke

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2017, 01:32:52 PM »
And to my comment of the stage configurations in auditoriums, concert halls. This image illustrates a point that I was making,...
That wooden edge is the demarcation between the main stage and the outer lip. It can be lowered so that there is an orchestra pit in front of the stage.
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2017, 01:51:33 PM »
^^^ I would have been the guy with the mics on the stand right behind yours
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Offline mixedplate

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Re: Front of stage mic height?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2017, 02:27:35 PM »
TJE—I have only used the Crown boundary mics on an indoor stage (looked pretty permanent) and don’t know how they’d perform outdoors on a temporary stage.  Wind protection might be a challenge, maybe you could cover them with furry plastic colander bowls...     Moke—what is that binaural head made from — is it heavy/dense or light material?  (Sorry if I’m veering off topic). That looks really interesting.

 

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