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Author Topic: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls  (Read 3199 times)

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Offline ArchivalAudio

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(smart ass answer)
m-10
balance in post.
any deck
balance in post...
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
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Offline phil_er_up

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Had same problem with tinybox. You can not set individual L/R levels with tinybox. So now I use my littlebox for the L/R correction to make mics even. So I went a different route by using he pre-amp to control it not the recorder. If you post process it is easy to fix there...
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Offline Gutbucket

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(smart ass answer)
m-10
balance in post.
any deck
balance in post...

Agreed. 

AFAIK, the R-05 has a hidden menu that provides balance control, just like the R-09 did.  Check the TS thread on accessing it's hidden Easter-egg menu.  IMO doing so would only be useful if you are always using the same mics with an channel imbalance and wanted to avoid having to re-balance for that every time in post.
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Online beatkilla

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Get an M10 and a church ugly 2 which has L R control.

Offline MBHOTAPER

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2017, 02:36:55 AM »
Get an M10 and a church ugly 2 which has L R control.
It doesn't have 48v phantom power for my mbho caps.

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2017, 02:59:35 AM »
Had same problem with tinybox. You can not set individual L/R levels with tinybox. So now I use my littlebox for the L/R correction to make mics even. So I went a different route by using he pre-amp to control it not the recorder. If you post process it is easy to fix there...
my tinybox for my Milab VM44's does have a balance control, via a tiny Phillips screw accessed thru the cover of the case ( I ordered it that way and it was an option). I have set it and for the most part left it. some times I do adjust it but never while sealxth...

I adjust in post if needed.
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
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Offline Cheesecadet

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2017, 01:15:01 AM »
The Marantz PMD 620 has the least amount of metal of any small deck besides the Korg MR-1.
The 620 gets about 4 hours on a good set of batteries, the MR-1 needs you to have an external battery pack (4 AAs or a small phone charging battery.)

The 620 will power sonic studios mics so probably also church mics. That's about as light as I can imagine.
I think punkjazz used to use the Sony M10 to power DPA 4061 mics, which sound better with 48v, but will still work with whatever the M10 was outputting.

I haven't been wanted in years and I haven't had the metal detectors yet.
What will they let you bring in? Batteries? Phone accessories?

The Sony M10 does not power the DPA4061s properly with pip.  You need a battery box or external pre to utilize them effectively in a concert setting. 
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2017, 11:08:25 AM »
(smart ass answer)
m-10
balance in post.
any deck
balance in post...

Agreed. 

AFAIK, the R-05 has a hidden menu that provides balance control, just like the R-09 did.  Check the TS thread on accessing it's hidden Easter-egg menu.  IMO doing so would only be useful if you are always using the same mics with an channel imbalance and wanted to avoid having to re-balance for that every time in post.

Even then, doing it in post would likely be more precise, unless the R-05 can adjust balance in 0.1 dB increments, which I doubt.

If I had this problem, I'd measure the exact difference in output between the two mics, then make a project template file in my DAW that has the one channel adjusted by that amount to compensate. 
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2017, 11:17:52 AM »
The Marantz PMD 620 has the least amount of metal of any small deck besides the Korg MR-1.
The 620 gets about 4 hours on a good set of batteries, the MR-1 needs you to have an external battery pack (4 AAs or a small phone charging battery.)

The 620 will power sonic studios mics so probably also church mics. That's about as light as I can imagine.
I think punkjazz used to use the Sony M10 to power DPA 4061 mics, which sound better with 48v, but will still work with whatever the M10 was outputting.

I haven't been wanted in years and I haven't had the metal detectors yet.
What will they let you bring in? Batteries? Phone accessories?

The Sony M10 does not power the DPA4061s properly with pip.  You need a battery box or external pre to utilize them effectively in a concert setting.

Yup - the 4061 needs 8 V and the M10 only gives you ~3 V.  Not only that, you'd also need custom termination to wire the two DPAs together to a miniplug to use the battery box, or buy a pre-made solution including battery box like the Core Sound HEB.

The DPA 4063 is a low-power variant than is rated down to 3 V so you could in theory run them directly from the M10 PIP with no battery box or preamp, but you still would need a custom dual microdot > miniplug harness made.  The 4063 is also not as common, and you're not likely to find them used unlike the hundreds of 4061s that pop up.

If you really want to run DPAs, get a recorder with XLR inputs like the Tascam DR-100 mkIII and have Jon at Naiant Audio make you a set of PFAs with whatever termination your 4061s come with.  It will be slightly more bulky than what you want to do but will perform better.
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2017, 08:05:26 PM »
I was not familiar with this deck but is came up in look at the adorama site, a bit bigger tehn the m-10 but smaller then the marantz 661, that includes xlr p/48 + spdif in. also not that cheap at $399 but looks cool.
 I might need one.
http://tascam.com/product/DR-100mkIII/specifications/
https://www.adorama.com/tsdr100mk3b.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1263849-REG/tascam_dr_100mkiii_linear_pcm_recorder.html

--Ian

edit this sounds very cool:
Quote
With a dual battery structure that features a built-in high-capacity lithium-ion battery as well as with hot-swappable AA batteries, operation is possible for extended periods of time and is ready to go when you are. Additionally, the DR-100mkIII can be rapidly charged by connecting an AC adapter and even support USB Bus power from an external battery pack commonly used to charge mobile phones and tablets.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 08:09:06 PM by ArchivalAudio »
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  •  Busman BSC2 BusBox (K21-O, K41-SC, K11-C)  • Line Audio CM3's
PreAmps:  SD USB-Pre2  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox (no bodies) • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: Zoom F8 • Tascam DR-680 • Tascam DR-60D • Marantz PMD 661 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
RODE  NT5's • Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics
==============================
Extra:  Denecke AD-20   |    Presonus FireB

Online gewwang

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2017, 01:47:45 PM »
I was not familiar with this deck but is came up in look at the adorama site, a bit bigger tehn the m-10 but smaller then the marantz 661, that includes xlr p/48 + spdif in. also not that cheap at $399 but looks cool.
 I might need one.
http://tascam.com/product/DR-100mkIII/specifications/
https://www.adorama.com/tsdr100mk3b.html
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1263849-REG/tascam_dr_100mkiii_linear_pcm_recorder.html

--Ian

edit this sounds very cool:
Quote
With a dual battery structure that features a built-in high-capacity lithium-ion battery as well as with hot-swappable AA batteries, operation is possible for extended periods of time and is ready to go when you are. Additionally, the DR-100mkIII can be rapidly charged by connecting an AC adapter and even support USB Bus power from an external battery pack commonly used to charge mobile phones and tablets.

I mentioned it earlier in these thread. I've been using one for a year since it came out and it's still my go-to deck for super-stealth situations.

This is the discussion thread for it: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=178782.0

Offline aaronji

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2017, 05:46:48 PM »
[Sorry to continue the off-topic conversation, but...]

DPA 4060s need 5V. Lots of threads about this, but, in brief, since DPA discontinued the MMA6000 and the MPS boxes, the easiest way to power them is to get a microdot to 1/8" Y-cable. Then use any mini input battery box or pre. There are even a few recorders that will supply the requisite 5V; I haven't tried this myself, but there are multiple reports of doing this successfully...

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2017, 06:08:52 PM »
Church Audio preamps can be ordered customized to power 4060s with microdot connectors.  And of course the d:vice MMA-A.  My suspicion is that the MMA-A an upgrade wrt preamps over the MMA-6000, would love some official or measured specs to verify that.  It also has A/D, but no specs on that either.

Jeff

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2017, 01:27:42 AM »
(smart ass answer)
m-10
balance in post.
any deck
balance in post...

Agreed. 

AFAIK, the R-05 has a hidden menu that provides balance control, just like the R-09 did.  Check the TS thread on accessing it's hidden Easter-egg menu.  IMO doing so would only be useful if you are always using the same mics with an channel imbalance and wanted to avoid having to re-balance for that every time in post.

Even then, doing it in post would likely be more precise, unless the R-05 can adjust balance in 0.1 dB increments, which I doubt.

If I had this problem, I'd measure the exact difference in output between the two mics, then make a project template file in my DAW that has the one channel adjusted by that amount to compensate.
Roland r-05 sounds interesting. Any experience with the balance control menus? Don't want to be fumbling a lot in stealth mode.
Thanks

Offline voltronic

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Re: Suggestions for a small stealth deck (like pcm-10) but with balnce controls
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2017, 06:19:37 AM »
[Sorry to continue the off-topic conversation, but...]

DPA 4060s need 5V. Lots of threads about this, but, in brief, since DPA discontinued the MMA6000 and the MPS boxes, the easiest way to power them is to get a microdot to 1/8" Y-cable. Then use any mini input battery box or pre. There are even a few recorders that will supply the requisite 5V; I haven't tried this myself, but there are multiple reports of doing this successfully...

You're right - I don't know where I remembered the 8V from I mentioned earlier.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

 

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