Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Oddball microphone techniques  (Read 57636 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
Lets see the mics too, please. :)

Hi Jim, I posted some photos of the Tetramic without windscreen here.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
is that your recording assistant?  ;D

Hey darby,
That's my dead rodent fur harvester, resting after providing supplies for the new Tetramic wind-cutter I sewed up.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 10:30:18 AM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Male
How far are the antennas with the mics sticking out? looks like the length is as tall as the height. Its pretty nice that you have the ability to set this up and be undisturbed at the festivals you attend.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
How far are the antennas with the mics sticking out? looks like the length is as tall as the height. Its pretty nice that you have the ability to set this up and be undisturbed at the festivals you attend.

This time the Left/Right antennas extend about 39" each, for a total of ~78" or 6-1/2' overall.  The height of the small stand alone is a bit over 7', but when hooked onto the taller stand the arms and mics are up around 8-1/2'. The antenna arms extend out over the chairs on either side in the same row and are nearly invisible from behind.  The Center/Back pair can extend just as far, but I set them to extend only about 12" forward and back (~24" total) partially because I didn't want them overhanging the walking isles in front and back in case someone came through carrying a flagpole banner or wearing a huge costume head or something.  Historically, Springfest has been pretty laid back that way, but it's a festival so you never know. 

[edit- the other reason for less extention on the center mic arm is to help achieve an even stereo recording angle across multiple mic pairs in the array- what Micheal Williams calls critical linking between recording segments.  The idea is that the SRA (stereo recording angle) of the Center-Left pair should cover an angular region that smoothly transitions to the SRA of the Center-Right pair.  The available variables for adjusting SRA are spacing, mic angle, level and delay.  Eliminating angle (using omnis) and delay, that leaves manipulation by spacing alone (and level, which I can adjust later).  The one meter spacing of the L/C and C/R segments produces a very narrow SRA, so the Center mic need not be very far forward to have the edges of those two adjacent SRA segments line up closely at the center.]

I've made a big effort to keep the rig svelt to minimally block sight lines.  Many of the straight stereo rigs at the same festival are far more bulky and visually intrusive.  I also set everything up to be as resiliant, snag-free, and disturbance-proof as practical.  So far so good.

It survived a direct beachball hit at one point that weekend, capturing the ball like an open hand, with no tapers around in the FOB section to remove it during the Friday evening headline act- I posted the story about in the wrong thread- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=140444.msg1862041#msg1862041
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 10:33:18 AM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Jimna

  • Zappa for President
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9452
  • Gender: Male
  • Audio DeutchKraft & Busman Audio
    • F.M.Record Company
Thanks for sharing!!
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
LD: ADK A-51TL MP > Busman Hybrid R4
+ 48 Channel Multi-track rig

Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 2x Extender Mark III, Canon 15mm f2.8, Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon 100mm Macro f2.8, Canon 16-35mm L f2.8, Canon 24-70mm L f/2.8, Canon 70-200mm L f2.8 IS, Canon ST-E2, Canon 580ex II (x2), Canon 430ex II, PocketWizard PLUS II(x4), Radiopopper PX System

http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST
-FZ

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Male
I've made a big effort to keep the rig svelt to minimally block sight lines.  Many of the straight stereo rigs at the same festival are far more bulky and visually intrusive.  I also set everything up to be as resiliant, snag-free, and disturbance-proof as practical.  So far so good.

While we can all agree that these light stands we use for mic stands are not that attractive they work well because it gets above the crowd and it doesn't require a huge radius all the way around it. It does sound like your method of mounting it would get it above a potentially rowdy crowd  and minimise the chance of it being tackled.

nice job.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
I edited my post above to try and help better explain the technical reasons behind the arrangement I used here.

I try to take into account the entire situation and design my approach around it.  In this case I was recording from slightly farther back with a mostly mellow, mostly seated crowd.  In that situation using more extention on the arms was both attractive for recording reasons and achievable practically, because of the low visual impact of the thin arms and miniature mics and also the nature of the crowd.  For Bear Creek which is held at the same venue, I'm usually recording farther forward near the stagelip in a rowdier, standing crowd, with the mics either around head level or low on-stage peering over the monitors.  That situation calls for shorter arms, with APE spheres installed for poke-protection as much as anything, and the telescopic sections and mic cableing sheathed in tech-flex instead of having the cable looped and taped at each telescoping segment.  The tech-flexed version doesn't allow nearly as much total extention and makes the arms slightly fatter and so more visible, but protects the cables completely and makes the arms snag free regardless of if they are extended or retracted.  I can grab the stand and swiftly move the whole rig out of the way if neccessary, which has happened a couple times- like when the trombone player jumped off stage almost directly over it.  :o
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 10:41:45 AM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3673
  • Gender: Male
Well you won't believe this but I think your nerf balls by themselves are a collector item. I checked out a target, two wal-marts, and even a toys r us for a pack but I couldn't find ANY. A couple years I got a pack but my mics were too heavy with the antenna I had so I must have lost them in a couple moves or just thrown them out. I wasn't even able to find anything close to it because everything else was much heavier and too big. Of course ebay has some but it seems so ridiculous to get a pair online when it seems like something easy to get in any retail store.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
Hmmm, thanks for the heads-up.  I'll have to look for some locally to stock up.

I've also found slightly smaller diameter versions made from the same material sold as solid ping pong balls.  Downside is that they are bright yellow instead of cool green, but you can always paint them dark grey with automotive vinyl spray paint.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball mic techniques - 4 channel omni+cardioid surround array
« Reply #129 on: November 06, 2012, 11:59:51 AM »
Six foot (2m) omni spacing with center and rearward facing cardioids-

Photos attached below of the setup I ran at Magnolia Fest on the Suwannee last month.  I often run four spaced omnis at this festival in sort of a four point decca tree, so this year I substituted forward and back facing cardioids for the center and back omnis.  By pointing one cardioid forward and the other backwards I intentionally sacrificed the ability to use the two cardioids alone as a typical stereo pair.  I also spaced the omnis a little over 6 feet (2 meters) which is more than I would if I was using them alone for stereo.  The entire idea was to give up the ability to use one pair or the other alone, and instead optimize the combination of them. 

The cardioids were full body Microtech Gefell M94/MV692, placed as close as possible on the center line and angled 180 degrees apart facing directly forward and rearwards (capsules spaced ~13"). The omnis were DPA 4061 omnis. This was intended for use as 3 channel L/C/R stereo (excluding or mixing in the backward facing mic), 4 or 5 channel surround, or for mixing all four channels down to 2 channel stereo.

I wanted to do this for a few reasons, some sound related some simply practical:

1) practical issue- less spacing required between the cardioids verses omnis means no telescopic antennas overhanging the 'isle' between rows of folding chairs at this outdoor amphitheater.  Makes for a more compact setup with less possibility of problems if someone parades by with banner, some giant costume head or something.  There is less practical problems with wide spacing the L/R pair along the length of the rows.
2) sonic issue- I wanted more forward bias (stage focus) in the center channel, with sources to the sides and rear less represented in that channel.
3) sonic issue- I wanted more level difference rather than time difference between the Center and Rear (surround) channels.
4) practical and sonic issue- I wanted more time difference in between Left and Right omnis with the addition of a center mic.
5) sonic issue- the M94 Gefell cardioids have a rolled off low end response and a more prominent high frequency response.  I felt this would work really well mixed to center (or to a dedicated center speaker) in combination with the more bass heavy spaced L/R omnis both in frequency response and in spatial distribution on playback (mids/highs biased slightly towards the center, low bass biased to Left/Right)

2) through 4) above work into my current thinking on stereo and surround recording which is that I generally want more time stereo information in the Left/Right axis and level difference in the Front/Back axis.

Haven’t had a chance to do much with the files yet, but listening back it worked astoundingly well and I plan to do more like this. Somewhat surprisingly the patch I gave out of the R44 to the M10 of another taper here also sounded very good even though the center cardioid was routed hard Left and the back facing one hard Right due to the lack of panning ability on the R44’s outputs, and the levels of the mix with the omnis wasn’t dialed in optimally.  I expected that patch to have more of a left side bias with the center mic panned to that side and the audience facing rear mic to the other, but it sounded big open and clear.

I’m going to do something similar, just on a smaller scale for Bear Creek this weekend, narrowing the A-B spread to 3’ and replacing the full sized Gefells with small AT cardioids for a stage-lip/way-FOB rig that is more lightweight, compact, and has lower visible impact.

Full extension with 6 foot spacing on the L/R omnis-






Detail showing side-by side cardioid mounting on the diagonal mic bar to accommodate the mic stand, give equal weight balance, and to keep the Gefells under umbrella if required.  Also shown is the support wire which hooks under the telescopic arms to support them without sagging at full extension-






With the arms telescoped in for a 3’ total omni spacing-



« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:23:33 AM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball mic techniques
« Reply #130 on: November 15, 2012, 04:22:02 PM »
Same setup as last month, but substituting Audio Technica miniature cardioids for the full-sized Gefells for use at the stage-lip or way-up-front FOB in the impact zone at the Bear Creek music festival.  Same 6' spread on the 4061s, same spacing on the cardioids.  All four mics > Naiant PFAs > OCM R44.  Rig stayed wired and ready to roll all weekend, just unfold, power up and hit record.

Omni extensions retracted.  The circle of blue tape indicates the forward (center) mic arm-



Detail of reverse side showing left/right telescopic arm support wire for wide spacings and attachment tang with hole to hang the whole thing from a bigger, taller, staked down stand in the section (not used this fest)-



Deployed with full extension-



Detail-



Stand folded in carrying bag with mics and wiring hooked up and ready to go-



Entire pre-wired rig-


volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline Moke

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3217
  • m0k3 - √!n¥¬ 633|<
Re: Oddball mic techniques
« Reply #131 on: November 15, 2012, 09:50:46 PM »
thats a really cool rig, Lee!  I like that brace between the width/wide spaced omnis. good idea.
Sent From My Craftsman Garage Door Opener

Offline Jimna

  • Zappa for President
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9452
  • Gender: Male
  • Audio DeutchKraft & Busman Audio
    • F.M.Record Company
Re: Oddball mic techniques
« Reply #132 on: November 15, 2012, 10:00:54 PM »
badass!  Love the compact aspect when your walking away too.   well done!

I am curious to hear it.
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
LD: ADK A-51TL MP > Busman Hybrid R4
+ 48 Channel Multi-track rig

Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 2x Extender Mark III, Canon 15mm f2.8, Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon 100mm Macro f2.8, Canon 16-35mm L f2.8, Canon 24-70mm L f/2.8, Canon 70-200mm L f2.8 IS, Canon ST-E2, Canon 580ex II (x2), Canon 430ex II, PocketWizard PLUS II(x4), Radiopopper PX System

http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST
-FZ

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (122)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40600
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Oddball mic techniques
« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2012, 10:21:57 PM »
lookin great as always Lee! i like running omnis like you run your cards except i run the omnis parallel to the stage in the healy method. sounds so frickin killer at a festie
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11589
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oddball mic techniques
« Reply #134 on: November 16, 2012, 11:25:36 AM »
Thanks guys!
Notice your Geffs, Moke-bar and clips in the full size version Mike!
Jim, I'll get some stuff together for you someday.  I'd love to put up comparitive comps of all these setups.  As you know, I'm OK at recording, but absolutely horrible at getting around to doing anything with the files other than playing them back off the recorders.  At some point I'll probably stop or slow down on recording and actually start processing it.  :P
Bean, try a bit more space between those omnis next time.  Like 2'-3' instead of 12".  I think you'll like it!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 11:28:19 AM by Gutbucket »
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.246 seconds with 38 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company