Topic: My next move in "small" mics.... moving from SP-CMC-8 + SB-3 to...?

[adrianf74]

Hey everybody:

I'm presently trying to figure out my next move in "small" mics.   At present, I'm using a pair of SP-CMC-8's that I bought back in '02 (so these, I think were the AT-933's?) and the caps are not removeable [not that I could manage].  I also purchased the SP-SB-3 (long discontinued) which is their battery box with selectable bass roll-off and extremely small as it uses the mini-9V battery.

I'm using an Edirol R-09 for recording (no mods).

I purchased a CAFS-Omni back in the fall for "tight" spaces and it works well.  What I'm finding is that I often can't get enough juice out of the battery box and end up having to crank the deck (not optimal at all based on the R-09's noise floor).

So, I'm looking at a pre-amp (likely the CA-9100) but if I'm gonna be doing that, I'm thinking I'll just sell the old SP gear that I have (it's been lovingly taken care of over the years and has treated me well for 50+ concerts that I've taped).  So, what is a fair price for the mics/battery box on YS?

So, the question is: what to do?   Should I look at the CA-14's and try and get a package of sorts.  Should I just get the CA-14's CARDS with a pre-amp and keep the CAFS-OMNI?   

I'd love nothing more than to go with a DPA-4061 (or CS-HEBs or something along those lines) for my OMNI needs, however, they're a little price phohibitive.  I just think the time has come to move to something new.

I know this is a subjective question as there are quite a few options out there; I'd just like to know what others think.

Thanks,
Adrian.

[rastasean]

I believe you should just get the st-9100 pre-amp right and and tape a few more shows. Still don't like the sound? well, then look at the ca14 omnis/cards. if you buy the 9100, you can also use it on your CAFS to get the mics extra power.

just my advice....

[setboy]

Hey everybody:

I'm presently trying to figure out my next move in "small" mics.   At present, I'm using a pair of SP-CMC-8's that I bought back in '02 (so these, I think were the AT-933's?) and the caps are not removeable [not that I could manage].

Funny...... i have never seen at933's that the caps are not changeable.........

If you need more juice you might want to look into the littlebox that people have been talking about.

Or if you want to think about news mics you could keep your eye on ebay for some countryman b3's.

I don't really know the church audio stuff at all so i will leave that to others.........

[acidjack]

Edited my response when I realized your caps aren't changeable.

Still, I don't think CMC-8 > CA-14 is really that much of an upgrade.  The CA-14 have better bass response, I'd assume, because they are bigger, but if you are sinking money into mics, you might as well really do it.

If I were you, if you really want to move "up", I think these are the jumps:

Audix 1280 caps + Church active cable.  Not that costly, and you have switchable caps (omni, hyper, cardiod).  You can listen to how the fullsize rig sounds in various archive.org samples.  Also if you google "acidjack nyctaper Audix" you will get a bunch of my recordings with the Church active setup.  I run it with a battbox into an M10 (and previously, into an R-09HR) and I got fine levels.  With a Church pre it will be even better.

AKG ck9x caps with battbox (you have to get a custom one) or have Chris make you an ST-9100 that can do it.  I loved this setup when I had it.  And it made an awesome open rig too, for not that much money.  In particular I think the ck93 hypers are a nice mic.  All-in that rig will cost you like $500.

other rigs that I know other people here like are the Sennheiser MKE series (I believe MM-HLSC-1 is the model from Microphone Madness) and Countryman B3 for omnis. 

After that I think you're into the four-figure rigs. 

As to pricing out the CMC-8, I would take what you paid for them and deduct, what, 33-50%?  Depending on condition.  If they aren't the removable cap version, they are probably worth a bit less than the current version.

[adrianf74]

Thanks to everyone so far; I'd try and quote topics properly but it's nearly impossible on my CrackBerry (heading into work).
Firstly, I have taped a few more shows and am still displeased with the CMC-8's.  In fact, I've listened back to the shows I've done with these mics and with the Edirol, I'm not as happy as I was with the old Sharp MT-877 I had. I've tried to get the caps off to no avail; looks like they are glued on. 

Next up: bass response of the CMC-8's. Even with the battery box set to flat, I've never liked the mids-to-highs and have always found the bass response sub-par.

Purposes: more likely than not, I'm going to be in st****h-mode so the size/noticeability of the caps play a role. I know that I have my CAFS-Omnis for that purpose and would like something along the size of the CMC-8's (perhaps smaller?). 

I've always liked the Sennheiser line - a friend had a pair of in-ear binaurals (MKE-2002?) in the mid-90's.

I'll look into the countryman b3's (anybody else have feedback?) and the MM-Sennheiser suggestion.  In the meantime, how much smaller are the CA-11's over the 14's?  And what pros/cons exists?

Thanks.

[Church-Audio]

Thanks to everyone so far; I'd try and quote topics properly but it's nearly impossible on my CrackBerry (heading into work).
Firstly, I have taped a few more shows and am still displeased with the CMC-8's.  In fact, I've listened back to the shows I've done with these mics and with the Edirol, I'm not as happy as I was with the old Sharp MT-877 I had. I've tried to get the caps off to no avail; looks like they are glued on. 

Next up: bass response of the CMC-8's. Even with the battery box set to flat, I've never liked the mids-to-highs and have always found the bass response sub-par.

Purposes: more likely than not, I'm going to be in st****h-mode so the size/noticeability of the caps play a role. I know that I have my CAFS-Omnis for that purpose and would like something along the size of the CMC-8's (perhaps smaller?). 

I've always liked the Sennheiser line - a friend had a pair of in-ear binaurals (MKE-2002?) in the mid-90's.

I'll look into the countryman b3's (anybody else have feedback?) and the MM-Sennheiser suggestion.  In the meantime, how much smaller are the CA-11's over the 14's?  And what pros/cons exists?

Thanks.

If you have cafs your wasting your money with B3 IMO. If you are planning to get a 9100 preamp.. I would get the 9100 + the ca-14 cards.. The ca-14 OMNi mics are not really any better then the cafs mics.

[junkyardt]

if you don't mind staying with Sound Pros, i've always thought the CMC4 was superior to the CMC8...specifically the SP-CMC-4U + Denecke PS-2 combo.

[illconditioned]

Thanks to everyone so far; I'd try and quote topics properly but it's nearly impossible on my CrackBerry (heading into work).
Firstly, I have taped a few more shows and am still displeased with the CMC-8's.  In fact, I've listened back to the shows I've done with these mics and with the Edirol, I'm not as happy as I was with the old Sharp MT-877 I had. I've tried to get the caps off to no avail; looks like they are glued on. 

Next up: bass response of the CMC-8's. Even with the battery box set to flat, I've never liked the mids-to-highs and have always found the bass response sub-par.

Purposes: more likely than not, I'm going to be in st****h-mode so the size/noticeability of the caps play a role. I know that I have my CAFS-Omnis for that purpose and would like something along the size of the CMC-8's (perhaps smaller?). 

I've always liked the Sennheiser line - a friend had a pair of in-ear binaurals (MKE-2002?) in the mid-90's.

I'll look into the countryman b3's (anybody else have feedback?) and the MM-Sennheiser suggestion.  In the meantime, how much smaller are the CA-11's over the 14's?  And what pros/cons exists?

Thanks.

If you have cafs your wasting your money with B3 IMO. If you are planning to get a 9100 preamp.. I would get the 9100 + the ca-14 cards.. The ca-14 OMNi mics are not really any better then the cafs mics.

Hey, hold on!  IMO the B3 are one of the best sounding omni mics out there.  I think the only better one is the Nevaton MCE400, and the B3 are close to this.  Better than DPA406x too.  My personal theory is that the B3 and Nevaton sound so good because they have a metal (stainless steel) diaphragm.  The only problem I have had with the B3 is consistency/matching.  If I could get perfectly matched B3, I would be extremely happy.

  Richard

[listener2]

Hi all, I will second the motion for the Countryman B3's.  I bought a set of stereo Countryman B3 low sensitivity model.  They offer them in normal sensitivity and low sensitivity.  I also have bought the DPA 4060 stereo mics kit and also the Church Audio CA-11 cardoids recently.  I compared them all and by far the best sounding one is the Countryman B3's.  They are better than the DPA 4060's and cost about 1/3 the  price!  They also come with a nice carrying pouch case along with extra high freq boost capsules and alligator type clips which are more useful for your purpose than what the expensive DPA 4060 stereo kit comes with.

One caveat, the Countryman B3's don't come with 1/8" stereo mini plug connectors standard.  I bought mine hardwired to their XLR phantom power adapters and thus have to use them with XLR mic inputs.  But they sound really accurate and great compared to all my other miniature binaural style mics.  DPA 4060 is way overrated and I regret spending so much money on them.  They are nice mics, but they are just not as accurate as my Countryman B3's. Also the DPA 4060's are so sensitive that they will overload my Sound Devices 702 preamo stage with loud band music even when I set the Sound Devices 702 gain level to the absolute lowest level it can go to!  Wow! They are sensitive.  I should have gotten the DPA4061's on hindsight.  But the B3's are the ones I would go with for best musical results.  The CA11's are deficient in bass in most cases I've tried them in, not bad, but not the best neither.  Countryman B3's recommended highly!

BTW, when I ordered my Countryman B3 mics, I asked my dealer to specify a "Stereo matched pair if possible"... I got a nicely matched set from them!  So it is possioble if you specifically ask them to order it that way.
Countryman support line and service however leaves me feeling cold as they did not ever respond to any of my questions I asked of them before and after I bought their mics from an authorized dealer.  fyi.

[adrianf74]

Okay, I think I can officially conisder this thread closed.  I got some excellent insight from a few people in the thead, PM'd with a pair for further information, and finally came to a decision:

I will be picking up the CA-9100 pre- with a set of CA-14/c's.  It's not going to be perfect but for when I need cards, they will do what I need them to do without breaking the bank.  The CAFS I have will stay and those will be my two choices when taping.

I might consider something a bit more lavish down the road when money permits but for now these will do the job.

Thanks again to everybody here.