Author Topic: Schoeps CMT44 (Read 8972 times)

aegert · « **on:** January 12, 2008, 08:55:08 AM »

Has anybody used these Cards? (Schoeps CMT44) Any notes? Let me know Thanks for any help!

Just impulsively bought a pair on ebay for $850... Used in studio... they have 2 more

A

DSatz · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2008, 04:18:06 PM »

aegert, these are T-powered microphones, so don't connect them to a phantom power supply. They are capable of really excellent performance if they're in good repair. And this series of microphones is still completely supported at the factory in terms of maintenance, etc.

I've attached JPEGs of the old catalog pages for this model (the 440 was its speech cardioid counterpart). This series used interchangeable capsules, but their fittings weren't the same as what was later chosen for the "Colette" (CMC) series, so unfortunately the only way to get other capsules for these microphones now is on the used market. CMT-series microphones can't use the "active accessories" of the Colette series, either. But the 12-Volt models (which yours are) do have very wide dynamic range and transformerless, very low-impedance output circuits similar to those of the Colette series.

This series was discontinued in the mid-1970s so the microphones are at least 30 years old, maybe even 35 to almost 40. You might send a note to mailbox@schoeps.de and ask whether your mikes have ever been back to the factory for repair; give them the serial numbers of the amplifiers and the capsules, and they can look them all up.

I can tell you that if I bought good used microphones of that age, I'd want to send them in for a checkup; I even do that for microphones that were manufactured relatively recently. A seller could be honestly unaware of certain things that might have happened to a microphone.

--best regards

Shawn · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2008, 05:23:02 PM »

Quote from: DSatz on January 12, 2008, 04:18:06 PM

This series was discontinued in the mid-1970s so the microphones are at least 30 years old, maybe even 35 to almost 40.

Not that it makes much of a difference, but I believe the cmt series mics were still being built in the 80's.

http://www.schoepsclassics.de/1965_cmt30_40_50.htm

DSatz · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2008, 05:50:38 PM »

Shawn, the CMT 50 series (48-Volt phantom powering with output transformer) was still being manufactured in the early 1980s, that's true. The CMTS 501 stereo microphone, which was part of that series, had some limited production even in the mid-90s. But I'm fairly sure that the 12-Volt models (the CMT 30 and 40 series) were discontinued just a few years after the Colette series was introduced in 1973.

The main reason for this is that the CMT 50 series microphones drew less than 1 mA apiece, while the (transformerless) 48-Volt Colette microphones drew 4 to 5 mA, which at the time was too much for many recorders, preamps and mixers. As a result Schoeps kept manufacturing the CMT 50 series for the sake of their customers who needed a lower-current microphone.

But the 12-Volt models were simply superseded by the corresponding Colette-series models (same numbering down the line, with "CMC" in place of "CMT"). They drew the same amount of current, had similar specifications and sound, and at the time, you could even have your CMT-series capsules from the 12-Volt series mounted in Colette-series housings when you changed over to the new amplifier type. A lot of film and video sound people did that because they wanted to use active cables, which were patented and still unique to Schoeps then.

--best regards

aegert · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2008, 06:18:18 PM »

So is there a way to use the t-powered mic amp with a 12v. phantom or 48 v. phantom supply.. Is it possible to redirect the power pins in the bodies to make them 12v phantom not A-B? If not I am hosed LOL.. these were going to be a pair of mics we were going to loan out in the MOTB.org project to enable old time tapers to get out and record. I was going to pair this with an HD-p2 :-(

A

DSatz · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2008, 07:22:34 PM »

aegert, there are active adapters to let you run parallel-powered ("T"-powered) microphones from 48 Volt phantom powering, but you definitely have to use something like that, or else a real parallel power supply, sorry. There's no way to rewire the microphone. But there are plenty of used "T" power supplies available on the used market, because a lot of film and video people used to use this system back in the 1970s and 80s.

--best regards

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2008, 04:23:04 PM »

I bought the second pair of these from Clinton. Roger told me that you tested all 4 when you came in , and they were pretty close.

I actually wanted all 4, and contacted the seller Friday to make sure they were legit, and he asked me to wait till Monday morning to talk with him.

If they will work for you, I hope you enjoy them and they work great.

If not, I would still be happy to end up with all 4 for a surround matrix. They would be just the set for a freebie field job I am embarking on.

I am working on a multimedia surround project illustrating pre-contact life in Hawaii, which will run in most of the schools around the State.

Regards, & Aloha,

Jonathan Starr
kalepa@maui.net

Quote from: aegert on January 12, 2008, 06:18:18 PM

So is there a way to use the t-powered mic amp with a 12v. phantom or 48 v. phantom supply.. Is it possible to redirect the power pins in the bodies to make them 12v phantom not A-B? If not I am hosed LOL.. these were going to be a pair of mics we were going to loan out in the MOTB.org project to enable old time tapers to get out and record. I was going to pair this with an HD-p2 :-(

A

Shawn · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2008, 05:02:28 PM »

Quote from: aegert on January 12, 2008, 06:18:18 PM

So is there a way to use the t-powered mic amp with a 12v. phantom or 48 v. phantom supply.. Is it possible to redirect the power pins in the bodies to make them 12v phantom not A-B? If not I am hosed LOL.. these were going to be a pair of mics we were going to loan out in the MOTB.org project to enable old time tapers to get out and record. I was going to pair this with an HD-p2 :-(

A

as DSatz said you can use the barrel adapters...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/275819-REG/PSC_FPSC0010A_A4812_48V_to_12T.html

if you look around you can find them cheaper. I use a pair of them with my schoeps cmc4 bodies which also require 12t power. they work perfectly, and are really small. You can just hook them up to the end of your XLR cable and hide them safely away in your gear bag.

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:44:35 PM »

Roger from Clinton told me that the CMT44's came with inline adaptors for 48v phantom, similar to the ones from B&H. The 44's have din connectors, and apparently they come with din cables to connect the mics to the adaptors. The adaptors have xlr's on the preamp ends. I'm waiting for my 2 to arrive.

I just received a CMT 341 that I got from another source, that has been modified for 48v phantom. The seller told me it had been modified per Schoeps specs by changing an internal resisitor. Wonder if anyone knows about this.

The 341 just arrived, and looks brand new with the full accessory kit: box, shockmount and ball windscreen. Gotta clear my desk so I can go inside and try it.

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2008, 08:30:47 PM »

BTW, the CMT 341 tested out nicely & sounds gorgeous !

aegert · « **Reply #10 on:** January 15, 2008, 01:22:27 PM »

The 44's sound amazing.. They did come with Switchcraft t-power to 48v. adapters. The problem is with the din connectors. I will need to build new cables as one of the cables is not grounded and hums to the touch, big time interference, and the other is intermittent.

Nice mics . Sounded great on guitar...

A

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2008, 05:01:30 PM »

Would love to hear any more comments you have on the mics, A.

I'll give a review of mine when they arrive and I get some use on them.

aegert · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2008, 12:38:24 PM »

I fixed the cables and have a line on new connectors to build a 2 channel snake for low profile stereo cables.

I have yet to use int he field but recording guitar in my home they sounded great.... I will try to get out soon. Antibalas is playing 2 nights this weekend and might hit one I am sick today we'll see.

A

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #13 on:** January 19, 2008, 12:52:09 PM »

Per Uwe Sattler, Sennheiser/Neuman Tech Director, the inline adaptors are adequate for these mics. Conversion from 12v to 48v phantom involves only a resistor change, to limit the current. Thus the modification done to my 341 is valid and it is easy to internally adapt most 12v phantom (or 24v phantom) mic to 48v phantom by changing a resisitor.

3 pin Dins are wired differently from XLR. Pins are 1-2-3 going left to right with the middle pin up. Pin 1 is + and Pin 2 is Ground and Pin 3 is -.

Aloha,

Jonathan

aegert · « **Reply #14 on:** January 19, 2008, 01:09:08 PM »

Quote from: Jonathan Starr on January 19, 2008, 12:52:09 PM

Per Uwe Sattler, Sennheiser/Neuman Tech Director, the inline adaptors are adequate for these mics. Conversion from 12v to 48v phantom involves only a resistor change, to limit the current. Thus the modification done to my 341 is valid and it is easy to internally adapt most 12v phantom (or 24v phantom) mic to 48v phantom by changing a resisitor.

3 pin Dins are wired differently from XLR. Pins are 1-2-3 going left to right with the middle pin up. Pin 1 is + and Pin 2 is Ground and Pin 3 is -.

Aloha,

Jonathan

STOP DO NOT DO THIS DO NOT PASS GO!

THESE MICS ARE T-POWER not PHANTOM SO THAT WILL NOT WORK!

A

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #15 on:** January 19, 2008, 02:59:06 PM »

Thanks for the tip. Don't think I'll try it on the 44's.

I was asking this in reference to my CMT341 and MKH 816T long shotgun.

I was glad to learn a bit from this guy. Last time I was at NAMM, he showed me how the bass response of a Neumann LDC radically changes when you switch pattern from Omni to Figure 8, through Cardioid.

Aloha,

Jonathan

[/quote]

STOP DO NOT DO THIS DO NOT PASS GO!

THESE MICS ARE T-POWER not PHANTOM SO THAT WILL NOT WORK!

A

[/quote]

DSatz · « **Reply #16 on:** January 19, 2008, 04:55:09 PM »

aegert, it works this way:

CMT 3-- or CMC 3-- = 12 Volt phantom powering
CMT 4-- or CMC 4-- = 12 Volt parallel (a/k/a "T" or "AB") powering
CMT 5-- or CMC 5-- = 48 Volt phantom powering
... while CMC 6-- = either 12 Volt or 48 Volt phantom powering (automatic switchover)

There are a few alternate varieties but these are the basics.

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2008, 03:42:47 AM »

I had a chance to use the CMT44's in a serious project today for the first time. They are lovely.

Set them up as an XY pair; tracking bongos, shekere, tambourine, cowbell, finger cymbal in a folk/newgrass/rock project. Much crisper and more melodic than my other SDC's, which include KM184s, 4041s, CEM6 and 012's. They sound great, and are easy to place and are not overly subject to overload like the KM184s, which tend to get "blown" by energetic percussion unless I use a windscreen, which seems ridiculous in a treated room.

The tracks sound clear and distinctive in a somewhat busy mix with multiple guitars, banjo, mandolin, drumkit etc.

Hope their matching brethren are behaving as well, Aegert.

Aloha,

Jonathan

aegert · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2008, 10:04:28 AM »

Jon

I was blown away by them.. They have the Schoeps sparkle but had nice low end as well. I was really impressed. I just got right angle tuchel female connectors and am building the snake I talked about. Will be a great set up....

They imaged really well in ortf the sound stage was wide and full all and all the best buy I think I ever had...

The cables that came with them were suspect. I did not like the soldering job no shrink wrap etc. They are not reliable. I would highly recommend making new cables with real neutrik gold xlr ends and high end tuchel's with mogami wire!

I have extra tuchel's if oyu need them strait's I can sell a pair for $40 + ship if you want them PM me..

A :-)

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2008, 01:19:40 PM »

I had to resolder one of the cables to get going. One of them was really ratty. I ordered a quality replacement cable from Hinton in Britain,www.hinton-instruments.co.uk and it was less than the parts.

The second cable is a new Mogami cable with quality ends, so I'm good to go.

This is my first experience with Schoeps, and I am happily surprised at how nice and easy to place they are. My old KM184's are so finnicky about location, and I would end up moving them numerous times till I'd find a sweet spot/angle.

Aloha,

Jonathan

aegert · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2008, 02:09:33 PM »

I got the connectors from germany that was my cost with shipping...

Glad you found the cables

A

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2008, 02:28:22 PM »

I was getting even higher quotes, that's why I went for the readymade assembly.

I was told at NAMM that Sennheiser has some in NJ (or CT?) in their parts facility, but are reluctant to let them go except to favored dealers or repair stations.

aegert · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2008, 04:18:02 PM »

Don't really know about that. the ones I got are gold connections and matte black.. I have the right angles on the way. Am building a 2 channel snake for running a stereo pair off a vark bar... Will be slick when done...

A

DSatz · « **Reply #23 on:** February 08, 2008, 07:17:26 AM »

Jonathan, I'm glad you like your CMT 44. I'm writing in regard to overload by air motion, since you mentioned having a problem with your KM 84s in this regard.

The Schoeps CMT 44 was specified to have 5 dB greater maximum SPL than the Neumann KM 84 (125 dB vs. 120). But that's acoustic energy in the audio spectrum, not air currents at DC. Any capsule--particularly if it's a pressure gradient (i.e. directional) capsule--can be severely affected by the direct impact of air whether it's from wind, breath noise of a close-up vocalist ("popping" on certain consonants) or as in this case, certain percussion instruments at close range.

Basically, if the pickup sounds better with a pop screen, a pop screen is needed in the situation--that isn't a defect of the microphone. And again, on the spectrum of first-order directional patterns running from (pressure) omni to cardioid to figure-8, as soon as you get away from the pressure end of the spectrum you will get more and more of this type of sensitivity. That's why in outdoor recording situations, if you don't have one of those blimp-like windscreens that reporters and film sound people use, an omnidirectional microphone can save the day.

On the other hand, not going into saturation at the lowest frequencies is a definite advantage of a transformerless output stage--which the CMT 44 has and the KM 84 does not. Every KM 84 amplifier I've ever tested has exceeded its maximum SPL specifications by several dB, but the "brick wall" limit is caused by the transformer core saturating. (In other words the "vintage" people are completely wrong about how tube vs. transistor microphones operate, but that's a topic for another post ...)

--best regards

John Willett · « **Reply #24 on:** February 08, 2008, 08:36:39 AM »

Quote from: aegert on January 12, 2008, 06:18:18 PM

So is there a way to use the t-powered mic amp with a 12v. phantom or 48 v. phantom supply..

You can get adaptors (eg: as supplied by Canford Audio in the UK) which take in 48V phantom power and throw out 12V T-power for the microphone.

This way you don't have to get special T-power supplies.

Details are HERE.

Jonathan Starr · « **Reply #25 on:** February 08, 2008, 01:40:28 PM »

That's the first time I've heard the term "overload by air motion" and it's a perfect description of the issue that I faced with the KM184's (I wish they were KM84's). Using them in a treated room, on guitar or Hawaiian percussion, they would get blown out very easily and give a nasty pop. I think this was occuring sometimes just from the performer's body motion pushing a bit of air.

I also find my Octava 012's are very susceptible to this, and my AT4041's somewhat less so. I was tending to go with LDC's like 414s or 4050's on stuff that I would rather hear through a crisp SDC.

The Schoeps seem to have a capsule design that avoids some of these issues. After tracking with them the past few days, I have yet to experience any episodes of the dreaded "OBAM".

I recently traded the KM184's for a CMC6/MK21 which seems the perfect guitar neck mic.

Aloha,

Jonathan