Topic: Using CMC-8 mics without a battery box with 48V supplied by the Microtrack II

[adrianf74]

Hey All:

It's been about five years since I taped a show (on my trusted Sharp MiniDisc Recorder which I've long sold) and I'm thinking about getting back into the game again.

I'm looking at a couple of options - the Edirol R-09 and the M-Audio MicroTrack II.  Personally, I'm leaning towards the M-Audio device for a number of reasons (prefer M-Audio over Edirol/Roland, can get it cheaper, and it records to CF as I've had some bad luck with SD cards).

My question is this: does the MT II supply enough phantom power in a loud live concert environment to get away without having to use my old battery box (i.e., can I eliminate one piece of gear in the chain).  At this point, I'm assuming using the phantom powered inputs connected directly to my CMC-8 (AT-853s) Cardioid Mics.   Or, is this going to end up with a distorted recording - and my only real solution is to continue using the Battery Box in the middle of the chain and use the "line in" connection instead?

Just trying to figure out what the best solution is here.

Thanks for any help that anybody can offer me on this.

[paulbaptiste]

The CMC8's are 943's not 853's but each has an option of having phantom adapter's;  do you have those?  do your mics end in mini xlr inputs?  The Adapters go from 9v to 52v so power should be adequate. 

Also check the recording gear section to read through reviews/ complaints of each.  I'd vote R09 over Microtrack IMO. 

And Welcome Back to Taping! +T

[adrianf74]

The CMC8's are 943's not 853's but each has an option of having phantom adapter's;  do you have those?  do your mics end in mini xlr inputs?  The Adapters go from 9v to 52v so power should be adequate. 

Also check the recording gear section to read through reviews/ complaints of each.  I'd vote R09 over Microtrack IMO. 

And Welcome Back to Taping! +T

Thanks for the quick reply.   I'm looking forward to getting back into the game as it's been a few years.  As my CMC8's end in a 1/8" jack, I'm  thinking I might be stuck with line in - I was just trying to see if there was another option that would allow me to avoid lugging around the battery box.

On a good note, I might have found an R09 for $300 mint with 2x 2GB cards in the Toronto area which will save me a few dollars.   At that price, I'm willing to take it over the MT2.

Any other thoughts?

[paulbaptiste]

I have a question about running various mics directly into my recorders.  Below is a list of the mics and recorders I have.  I'm curious about my options for bypassing the batterybox/pre-amp, in the event I want to run superstealth, or want to run 2 rigs simultaneously (one would be the full rig, the second would possibly be mics -> recorder). 

my mics:
at853 [I plan to get the 4.7k mod done on these eventually]
at943 4.7kmod
ssdsm6

my recorders:
r09
r-1
iriver h120 (rockboxed)

[for running a full rig, here are the batteryboxes/preamps I have, st-9100; sp-spsb-1; PA6-LC (for ssdsm6) . . . but right now I'm interested in going mic -> recorder]

Thanks in advance for comments.

I think it really depends on how loud the show is going to be. I think that the 853 is a great mic but when wired two wire with out any mods distorts rather easily. The 943 mics DO not require this mod.. If you have done it to these mics you have actually degraded the performance. The 853 on the other hand would benefit. From my mod but again you should use your 943 once you unmod them for quiet stuff direct in. And your modified 853 mics for loud shows. So under the right circumstances BOTH your mics could be used with your R-09 for super stealth. The iriver is not a great choice only because of its low plug in power voltage. The r09 puts out 5 volts which is plenty.


Chris

There it is.  I was looking for some info on modding, putting a resistor in your mics for higher spl handling, and also about to advise you on getting an iriver, but it has half the plug in power as your R09 and you don't need to degrade your microphones.  SO simply stealth i think you have the right idea-

[evilchris]

Church Audio Cards > R-09 (mic input)

no pre, and it works surprisingly well for rock shows.

example: http://www.archive.org/details/mofro2008-02-05.stc-11.flac16

[adrianf74]

Okay.

I appreciated all of the feedback that I've received to this on this question.  I ended up with an R-09 courtesy of c-list from a guy who bought one in January, used it for a few recording sessions, and then sold it (it's in mint condition still with the film over the screen) and grabbed it for three bills with a 4GB class 6 SDHC card.  Considering he bought it in January for close to $450 + the SDHC card, I can't complain. 

Now, the question is this: I still have my trusty CMC-8's with SP-SPSB-3 battery box (which uses the mini 9v batteries).  I'm debating whether I'm better dumping this set and picking up the Church Audio Cards as several people have pointed out you can get away with using them on plug-in-power situations in small clubs (very loud) or keeping them as they are pretty good for what they are.

Any thoughts as to the pros and cons?

[Dede2002]

I'm kinda lost here. So the CMC-8 (AT943 - 2 wire, I guess) do NOT need any mods to tape really loud music?
Man, I was under the impression that the 4.7 mod (or whatever) was needed for all AT mics sold by Sound Pros.

Edit: Is the  Sound Pros "low sens mod" option the same thing as the 4.7 mod?

[j.mart]

I'm kinda lost here. So the CMC-8 (AT943 - 2 wire, I guess) do NOT need any mods to tape really loud music?
Man, I was under the impression that the 4.7 mod (or whatever) was needed for all AT mics sold by Sound Pros.

Edit: Is the  Sound Pros "low sens mod" option the same thing as the 4.7 mod?

according to what i've read here, the 943'w distortion has a mechanical origin (diaphragm) and not electronic (FET). unlike the 853's, the 943's can handle way higher SPL better without modification, however they'll reach the point of distortion sooner than the 853's, if the later is low-sens modded (resistor moded). too bad, because i much prefer the 943 sound to tape live music than the 853, or any other cardioid lavalier mic i know of.

[Dede2002]

I'm kinda lost here. So the CMC-8 (AT943 - 2 wire, I guess) do NOT need any mods to tape really loud music?
Man, I was under the impression that the 4.7 mod (or whatever) was needed for all AT mics sold by Sound Pros.

Edit: Is the  Sound Pros "low sens mod" option the same thing as the 4.7 mod?

according to what i've read here, the 943'w distortion has a mechanical origin (diaphragm) and not electronic (FET). unlike the 853's, the 943's can handle way higher SPL better without modification, however they'll reach the point of distortion sooner than the 853's, if the later is low-sens modded (resistor moded). too bad, because i much prefer the 943 sound to tape live music than the 853, or any other cardioid lavalier mic i know of.

Thanks a lot. Still not sure about buying a pair.
+T

[nameloc01]

Just put mini-xlrs on them and get phantom adaptors. That will end any speculation.

[Liquid Drum]

From what Chris Church said, the CMC-8 (AT933/43) don't need the mod as they can handle the SPL ok. As mentioned already, the diaphragm is what causes the mic to distort, not the FET. As far as I know, its a good idea to use windscreens to try prevent this (I've used them plenty of times with zero distortion).

[Dede2002]

Just put mini-xlrs on them and get phantom adaptors. That will end any speculation.

You're 100% correct. But as a stealth taper, I really need to keep my rig small. 3.5mm plugs is the only thing I can use.
Thanks.

[Dede2002]

From what Chris Church said, the CMC-8 (AT933/43) don't need the mod as they can handle the SPL ok. As mentioned already, the diaphragm is what causes the mic to distort, not the FET. As far as I know, its a good idea to use windscreens to try prevent this (I've used them plenty of times with zero distortion).

So if the problem is the diaphragm ( not the FET), does the  Sound Pros "low sens mod" solves the problem at all?

[Javier Cinakowski]

i much prefer the 943 sound to tape live music than the 853

Have you ever owned a pair of 853's ?  There is not much difference between the two models, but I would take the 853 capsules in any recording situation.  AT uses the same frequency graph for many of the microphones in each series (engineered sound vs unipoint). Their stance is that the sound is the same, but there is a premium price for the smaller Engineered Sound line.  Since the unipoint line was updated there is a slight difference between models frequency plots.  The Unipoint is flatter in the highs and slightly fuller in the lows.  See attached image(U853 in red)

I personally prefer the 853 (new or old) to the 943 capsules.  I think they sound better in every regard.  My opinon only relates to the capsuels of each series, as I havn't found a difference in the sound of the bodies.  The price difference really seals the deal for me....

[nameloc01]

While it is a little bigger, its still quite stealthable.. I do it on a regular basis. Pretty fair "trade-off" IMO.