Topic: new to taping, h4n advise

[Alex.Stone]

so i just ordered a zoom h4n and am about ready to order these http://www.audioreality.com/ ....is this a good idea, my goal is to have a good entry level recording system which i can upgrade, and is fairly portable. Thanks!

[Humbug]

so i just ordered a zoom h4n and am about ready to order these http://www.audioreality.com/ ....is this a good idea, my goal is to have a good entry level recording system which i can upgrade, and is fairly portable. Thanks!

Have you used the search facility? These mics are discussed in a couple of threads.

Alternatives are Church Audio and Sound Professionals.

[fmaderjr]

so i just ordered a zoom h4n and am about ready to order these http://www.audioreality.com/ ....is this a good idea, my goal is to have a good entry level recording system which i can upgrade, and is fairly portable. Thanks!

Have you used the search facility? These mics are discussed in a couple of threads.

Alternatives are Church Audio and Sound Professionals.

Many here use and love these mics. I use both, but I would go with CA-14 cards as giving you the best performance/price ratio of any mics available. The audioreality mics are little discussed here, so I would rule them out.  Check this out:

You asked me in a PM to post why I'd had thoughts (in another post) related to giving up my high dollar rig in favor of using Church Audio. 

In terms of the recording itself, it's all about the sound.  I find that for the money, the Church Audio gear delivers a sound that I like.  For me, I've asked myself why I have between 4 and 5 thousand invested when I can get close to the same sound with Chris's products at a fraction of the cost.  The LMA is my best friend for evalating these decisions, and these decisions are personal based on the sound that you like anyway. 

For my ears, I haven't found a mic in the sub-$500 price point that sounds as good as the Church gear. 

In fact, as I've invested more and more in my rig, there's been various degrees of excitement, but also a level of disappointment.  For the money, I expected better sound.  What I learned is that incrementally better sound costs TONS more money.

[stevetoney]

I second the opinion on the CA-14 mics.

To add to the response, the mics you're considering will work fine with your new zoom.  I'm not familiar with these particular mics and I haven't used a zoom, but you will need to use the 'mic in' connection if you don't have a battery box to power the mics.  That said, some mics will distort at high sound pressure levels because of the sensitivity of the 'mic in' connection.  It's for that reason that you might end up wanting to look into getting a battery box to power your mics and then instead of using the 'mic in' connection you'd use the 'line in'.  'Line in' with a battery box generally provides a better option for the type of recording that many on this board do...such as loud rock and roll concerts.  So don't be overly disappointed if you first show or two doesn't sound as crisp and clean as you'd like...you just need one more component.  OTOH, lots of folks have gotten away without a battery box, so you might have great results.  Battery boxes are available at Sound Professionals for $50 or so.

The other thing worth mentioning is that you could also look into a small preamp, such as Chris Church's ST-9100 ($179 I think) as an upgrade even from the battery box.  The preamp will power the mics, but it may also enhance the sound of the mics since the 9100 is likely to be a nicer sounding preamp than what's inside the zoom.  There are a million samples on Live Music Archive of what the 9100 sounds like.  Personally, that would be the route I'd recommend...I've used the 9100 and for the money, it's awesome.

[fmaderjr]

The other thing worth mentioning is that you could also look into a small preamp, such as Chris Church's ST-9100 ($179 I think) as an upgrade even from the battery box.  The preamp will power the mics, but it may also enhance the sound of the mics since the 9100 is likely to be a nicer sounding preamp than what's inside the zoom.  There are a million samples on Live Music Archive of what the 9100 sounds like.  Personally, that would be the route I'd recommend...I've used the 9100 and for the money, it's awesome.

You WILL need at least a battery box for CA-14's. Only the MT's and Marantz PMD-620 have high enough plug in power voltage to possibly power them correctly. I second the ST-9100 recommendation. It's a great little pre. 

[Alex.Stone]

Thanks! so looks like i should go for the CA-14 cards, and a ST-9100 pre amp? On Church's website i don't see the CA-14s just CA-10s and CA-11s. are the CA-14 available?

whats the best way to mount my mics at a show. i've read a couple treads about stands but am still confused. i would like to be able to have a good "open taping" setup, and a good "stealth" setup. For stealth i was thinking just clipping the mics to a hat, does this work?

[fmaderjr]

Don't buy from Chris on e-bay. He gives taperessection discounts. Send him a PM on this board and tell him want you want. The CA-14 cards & omnis + ST-9100 preamp for $279.99 + free shipping is a steal.

Package deals
 
FREE SHIPPING FOR THE USA! For the month of July on any order over $200 a $24.00 value.

CA-9100 / CA-9000 / UGLY package sale prices!

CA-9100 w/ ca-14 omni and ca-14 cardioid mics $299.99! Now $279.99!

CA-9100 + CA-14 OMNI OR CARD $238.00!

CA-9000 w/ CA-11 cardioid mics $249.99!! Now $199!
Add ca-11 onni caps for $40.00 with purchase of above package.

CA-UGLY with ca-14 omni and ca-14 cardioid $299.99 NOW $279!

CA-UGLY with CA-14 OMNI OR Card $238!
Microphones 

UGLY BB + CA-14 $159.99

CA-14 omni mics $129.99
CA-14 cardioid mics $129.99

CA-1 PREORDER SALE 7 PAIRS @ $80 A PAIR!





ca-cable 3.5 to 3.5 mm 1 foot standard length with techflex/mogami/Neutric $20.00

Preamps


CA-Ugly $149!!
CA- 9100 $139!!
CA-9000 $129!!

 


Shipping to the USA  $24 for 1-6 day delivery
Shipping to Europe $20 for airmail 2-6 week delivery time.
$60.00 for express with tracking and full insurance 3-8 day delivery time for most Countries.
Canada $12 for express post shipping with tracking and full insurance
Note to Canadian customers in Ontario I charge GST AND PST on top of price other provinces will be GST only.
 
email me @ sales@church-audio.ca

[stevetoney]

^  Yes!  Check LMA if you want to be convinced.  Pound for pound, one of the best rigs for the money and you get two sets of mics! 

You asked about mounting.  Yes, get a light stand and mount your mics on a T-bar of some kind that enables you to put them in the various configurations.  If you don't know what I'm talking about, visit the microphone forum and look at the sticky'ed messages at the beginning.  Regarding not so open, most people rig something up to put it in a hat that perhaps has some meshiness to it...so yes, in a hat. 

Velcro is your friend, young jedi knight.

That said, open tape as much as possible and you might go the route that I did where I now basically hate recording with any gear attached to my body.  Open taping is the best way to get the best recording, but more importantly IMHO enjoy the show because you can get a beer, take a pee, talk (quietly) to a friend, etc.

[Big Perm]

shameless plug:

I have a set of CA-14 omni's for sale...$100 shipped to your door
a

[Alex.Stone]

Sweet! i think im gona go for the pre amp + 2 sets of mics combo thing. is there any special cables i need to get? what cables do i need to patch into the soundboard?

[stevetoney]

Sweet! i think im gona go for the pre amp + 2 sets of mics combo thing. is there any special cables i need to get? what cables do i need to patch into the soundboard?

Good decision.  You'll be pleased with the sound of these mics.  Be aware that it can take a little bit of time to get your gear from Chris.  He hand makes his gear...although it can take some weeks, it's well worth the wait and you can use the internal mics in the H4n in the meantime.

You don't necessarily need any special cables.  What Chris sells you will provide you 100% functionality.  However, I found it useful to have a 6 foot extension cable to insert between the mic jack and the input jack on the preamp.  That allowed me slack enough to put the mics up on a stand.   All you'd need is a stereo cable with a male 1/8 inch on one end and female on the other end.

As far as SBD patch cables, those run the gummut...there's no standard.  Find out what the SBD has at whatever venue you want to record from the board and go from there.  I recently got a digital patch via an AES cable...other SBDs have XLR outs and other still have RCA's or 1/4inch.

[Johnny Thunder]

   If you're on a budget and want to have the cables to patch from just about any sound board, you can do what I did just for the time being. Bearing in mind that really good audio cables and ends are quite pricey, I've gone with some Hosa brand items to get me started. With a 1/8 (3.5mm) TRS to dual male RCA about 6 feet long, and RCA Female to 1/4" TS Male adapters (2), and RCA Female to XLRF3 Female adapters, (2) you should be able to get a patch from just about any board. If you've got a little more to spend, there are several members here that make really nice cables with the sexyest of conductors and ends. Darktrain comes to mind immediately, but there are several other members doing an awesome job too. I've yet to hear ANYONE complain about ANY of the cables TS members are building here. These guys really know their stuff!

   As far as specifics about my poor man's cables, first I determined that I wanted a Hosa CMR-206R which is a 6 foot right angle 3.5mm TRS>dual RCA cable. Suprisingly, these cables are a little tough to find. I almost gave up and just opted for a cable with a straight 3.5mm plug instead of the right angle plug, then I found them reasonably priced brand new on e-bay. The seller I bought from is STSI.com. Shipping was fast and the cable was brand new as described. Total with shipping to NY was $8.83. As for the adapters, they are both Hosa parts too, and I got them from Sweetwater Sound. The 1/4" male TS to RCA Female adapters are Hosa part number GPR-101 and are $2.99 for a pair, and the RCA female to XLR3 females are Hosa part number GXF-132. Those are $7.89 each and you need two. Sweetwater ships free, so your price out the door for those adapters is $18.77

   IF you have a bit more in the budget to have some cables built, I suggest doing so, but either way, I personaly like to have backups where I'm able, and for a very small amount, you can buy the stuff mentioned above.

   As far as the Church Audio stuff goes, that's the direction I went. So far I have a CA-Ugly, (A smaller more    able version of the 9100) a pair of CA-11 Cards in hand, and a pair of omni caps for the CA-11's, a CA Battery Box and CA-14 cards on the way. (Should be here early this week.)

   Welcome aboard Alex. I hope you have as much fun with it all as I'm having. A word of advice. Don't pass up any opportunities to tape. First because there's probably someone out there that'd love a copy, (if only the band themselves), and secondly, when a show comes up that you seriously want a great pull from for yourself, you're more likely to get a result that you'll like if you've had some experiance already. Best of luck to you and I hope to see you around TS for a long long time to come!

-JT

[SmokinJoe]

We are very much a gear and gadget oriented group, and everyone has their own tastes and preferences.  Mics impart their own flavor to the recording, and just like flavors of ice cream, the flavor you like, may not be the flavor you like.  I encourage you to listen to a bunch of tapes on archive.org made with a given set of mics before you buy.  If you find yourself saying "I really dig these tapes made with these mics", then that is a good indication you will like them.  If you don't find yourself really excited by what you hear then that may not be the flavor for you.

The mics built into the H4N are actually pretty good.  I have a friend who used the original H4 for recording using the internal mics for a year or two and he turned out some great tapes.  Don't be shy about using them while you are listening/learning/deciding what you like.  When you get any kind of half decent mic in the right spot, it will turn out a great tape, and if you are in the right place and the right time you will be amazed how good your tapes can sound with these internal mics compared to the other guy next to you who has the $5000 rig. I'm not saying they will be just as good, but they are often 90% as good for 10% of the price.

To echo someone else's statement, just get out there and start taping something.  Go to a local bar where a local band is playing, and ask them "I just got this recording gear, and I want to try it out.  Mind if I record tonight?  I'll send you a copy".  I'd be very surprised if they say no.  You want to get a few of these opportunities under your belt before you head out to the big show that's coming to town.

And rule #1 is... don't get drunk, or busy yacking,  and forget to hit the record button before the band starts.    We've all done it.

[Church-Audio]

Thanks! so looks like i should go for the CA-14 cards, and a ST-9100 pre amp? On Church's website i don't see the CA-14s just CA-10s and CA-11s. are the CA-14 available?

whats the best way to mount my mics at a show. i've read a couple treads about stands but am still confused. i would like to be able to have a good "open taping" setup, and a good "stealth" setup. For stealth i was thinking just clipping the mics to a hat, does this work?

We are working on that.. Go to churchaudiomics.com the ca-14 mics should be there. If not let me know.

Chris

[adrianf74]

Thanks! so looks like i should go for the CA-14 cards, and a ST-9100 pre amp? On Church's website i don't see the CA-14s just CA-10s and CA-11s. are the CA-14 available?

whats the best way to mount my mics at a show. i've read a couple treads about stands but am still confused. i would like to be able to have a good "open taping" setup, and a good "stealth" setup. For stealth i was thinking just clipping the mics to a hat, does this work?

Indeed.  Chris is finally getting around to getting things in order for "newbies" to try and help them with techniques and what to choose.

I've become a bit of a Church Audio nut in the past six months to a year.  I've run all sorts of low-to-mid-range mics since '92 and, so far, I'm happiest with what Chris offers.

People on this forum, as Smokin' Joe reports, are true enthusiasts.  Everybody here will have a person preference when it comes to mics.  I've asked many questions over the last few months before settling.  As Joe suggest, hit DIME or LMA and listen to some recordings made with various mics and then pick what YOU think this best.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again, mics are like underwear... some prefer boxers, others prefer briefs. 

The CA-14's (even in their "new" configuration with smaller windscreen) are still quite noticeable but I have used them in a 007 environment without issue.  As you suggest, I usually clip the mics "upwards" with the built in clips along the sides of my temple on the underside of the cap with the elements facing forwards.  The CA-14 OMNI/CARDS and Preamp package is a steal for $280 + shipping.  Some might say the CA-14's are too big for 007 and go with the CA-11's for that reason.  I also have a CAFS omni mic with Ugly Battery Box for the times where I need to be 007 and can't bring in a preamp or want to risk being shut down with the CA-14's.

I don't think you'll go wrong with Church Gear... however, you need to come to that decision for yourself.