Topic: TASCAM DR-2d - announced at NAMM

[Will_S]

Keep in mind the line in does have gain control of sorts (really just variable attenuation), it just gets locked down at the start of dual recording mode.  I try to get my levels conservatively right to start and only adjust gain on the fly in emergencies, so I'm not sure how much of a liability the inability to adjust the line input while recording would be in practice.  Never mind that rather than fixing too hot levels by trying to attenuate at the recorder stage, I'd rather send a lower level signal into the unit.

[Gutbucket]

Agreed, & I try to run the same way.  Yet I record many odd acoustic/semi-acoustic things where the SPL level is unknown beforehand.  Typically at that point I'm increasing the gain above an overly-conservative initial setting.  That change is usually made during an intermission while not recording, so it wouldn't be a major issue, but occasionally I need to go the otherway and trim down if the music is much louder than I guessed.

I suppose I could build a simple in-line dual-stereo variable-attenuator box to patch between preamps and recorder.  That would allow me to match gains between all channels using the preamp gains, run them a bit hotter than necessary and leave those controls untouched.  I could then have a single level adjustment control, manipulating a small range of attenuation before the recorder, say 12-15db. 

Mostly thinking outloud at this point.  Just the sync and single set of tranport controls would be a huge advantage.  Did you determine if there is any drift between stereo pairs?  Auto split problems ever reappear? 

I haven't owned a Tascam deck since I had an 80's portatrack 4-channel cassette.  How good has Tascam been at updating problems like card compatibility, auto-spit issues, etc, via firmware updates?

[Will_S]

Mu autosplit problems have not repeated.  It may be heat related, I had the recorder covered by a sweater when it happened and it was quite warm to the touch (could be an issue for stealthers).  Or the heat might have resulted from the unit locking up and the processor going haywire?

I haven't had the chance to run a test on line vs mic in dual mode drift.  Maybe this weekend.  It's hard but not impossible to imagine a way the recorder could be wired that would allow drift.

This is my first Tascam so I can't speak to the frequency of firmware updates, etc.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks Will.  The heat issue could be a potential problem for me, if it really was the cause problem.  I'll keep a close eye on the thread, maybe borrow Spyder's to test for a few dates if I can.

[kingdong]

I thought I would add my experience to the thread.  Prior to last night I had recorded maybe 8 shows with my DR-2D.  I have the autosplit set to 512MB and am running mic-in with small omnis and a battery box.  A couple of the recordings were at 24 bit / 48 kHz, but most were at 24/96.  My memory card is an Adata, 8 GB, class 10.  I had not had any problems with the autosplit or anything else.  Last night that changed.  The card was "Quick Formatted" immediately prior to the show because I did not want to individually delete the files that were on it.

1st band was recorded 24bit/96k mic in.  No problems. (3 files due to autosplit, 1.3 GB total)

2nd band was recorded dual input, line (soundboard feed) + mic at 24bit/96k

Twice during the 2nd band, I received a 'Write Timeout" error.  It appears that these errors occurred at 4.2, and 3.6 MB into fresh files after a split occurred.  The error put the recording on pause (flashing LED) and I had to press stop and then record to get the recording to resume.  Fortunately I was open taping and the obscenely bright record led clued me into the problem.  I was literally 15-20 feet away from the recorder and noticed the flashing led when it went into the error.

Further investigation of one of the files finds that there is duplication of data.  If the sections represented by samples 139,793 - 437,009 and 437,009 - 734,225 are compared, they appear identical.  In fact, using Audacity I lined up those two segments and inverted the second.  Playing them back together resulted in silence.

I will be submitting this information to the Tascam people and will post here if they have something useful to say.  I will try to replicate this problem with the card in question and with a Sandisk Extreme III 4GB card to see if it could be possibly related to the card. 

Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions about other possibilities?

[Will_S]

Thanks for the report.  No suggestions, other than I hope our problems can be addressed by a firmware update.  I'll be avoiding having to autosplit in the field as much as I can in the meantime.  The remote may come in handy there.

[crazifyngers]

hmm sounds annoying but good to know.  if it gets close just fast forward to the next track between songs.


kingdong: why would you set your autosplit to 512mb?  doesn't seem to make sense to set it any lower than 2gigs.  what was the reason behind it?

[kingdong]

kingdong: why would you set your autosplit to 512mb?  doesn't seem to make sense to set it any lower than 2gigs.  what was the reason behind it?

I had it set lower get more track splits to get more data points as to whether track splits would be a problem.  512 seemed like a good middle ground between data points generated and the tedium of stitching the multiple files together.

[bgalizio]

I got my DR-2d on Friday. Tried my old set of Energizer 2500mAh rechargeables, and with duel mode (mic/line), 24/48, they only lasted an hour. While old, these still got 5-6 hrs in my R-09HR.

Bought some new Energizer 2300 mAh rechargeables. Same duel recording settings as above, and they filled my 8GB card, quick reformatted it, and ran for an additional 1hr50min. Total recording time was 5hr45min, including some standby time between filling the card and continuing recording (about 11.5GB total recorded).

I'm now running a battery life test just using the internal mics (not dual mode). Will report back tonight.

[bgalizio]

I got my DR-2d on Friday. Tried my old set of Energizer 2500mAh rechargeables, and with duel mode (mic/line), 24/48, they only lasted an hour. While old, these still got 5-6 hrs in my R-09HR.

Bought some new Energizer 2300 mAh rechargeables. Same duel recording settings as above, and they filled my 8GB card, quick reformatted it, and ran for an additional 1hr50min. Total recording time was 5hr45min, including some standby time between filling the card and continuing recording (about 11.5GB total recorded).

I'm now running a battery life test just using the internal mics (not dual mode). Will report back tonight.

Looks like using the internal mics netted me appx the same recording time (5hr45min) as dual mode (mic/line).

[bgalizio]

Before I sold my R-09HR to a coworker, I ran a line-in comparison with the DR-2d. The recording chain was Pioneer DV-588A-S > Kind Kables > recorder.

The R-09HR was set to level 35, and the DR-2d was set to level 100. This produced essentially identical peak and RMS levels. Recordings are 24bit 48kHz, because that's the setting I use for recording. One thing I noticed was that the peak light went off on the DR-2d during Box Of Rain, even though the peak is only around -1.7dB. Maybe it lights up at -2dB?

Track 1 is "The Lighthouses Tale" (Nickel Creek SACD):
DR-2d: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/ef8gam.wav
R-09HR: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/aeuzd0

Track 2 is "Box Of Rain" (Grateful Dead - American Beauty DVD-A):
DR-2d: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/vkzdk8.wav
R-09HR: http://files.me.com/galiziofamily/e5sldb

To me, the ADCs of these devices sound very similar, and very good. With the dual recording of the DR-2d, it was a no brainer for me to sell the R-09HR, even though it has been a very trusty recorder.

[kingdong]

An update to my previous post...
I still have received no reply from Tascam.  I will try to contact them again next week.
I think the SD card may have been the issue.  Sadly, this may mean that the DR-2D is picky about cards, but that will probably remain 'to be determined' as more people add data points.
This weekend I ran tests on the recorder with it set to 24bit/96kHz, dual input (line + mic).  I set the file split to 128k to bump up the number of file splits since that seemed to be the boundary condition that caused problems for me and others.  I fed the line-in with the audio output of my computer and the mic-in with ambient room noise.
Using the previously mentioned card: Adata, 8 GB, class 10  I found that I was able to reproduce the 'Write Timeout' error.  This would happen consistently before the card was full and typically multiple times before the card was full.
I switched to a card on the 'tested media list': Sandisk Extreme III, 4 GB, class 6  I was not able to reproduce the problem during 3 complete fillings of the card.

I would like to propose/request that others with the DR-2D might try this experiment and report back their result.  I can envision 3 likely outcomes:  1) The recorder is sensitive to/particular about which SD card you use.  2)  The recorder does not (consistently) handle cards that are too fast*  3) I have a flaky DR-2D

I would assume that 1) is the likely outcome, but it shouldn't take too many data points to start to see a pattern emerge here.

* I realize that the 'Tested Media List' from Tascam's web site lists some Sandisk class 10 cards, but it also specifically says '30MB/sec'.  My understanding is that class 10 is supposed to be minimum 10 MB/sec, and from the where I purchased the Adata card, I am led to believe that it is 23 MB/sec.

[Will_S]

Hmm.  Spent a few hours recording in dual mode, line+mic, at 24/96 with a 64 MB autosplit.  Same Kingston 16 GB card I had problems with once in the field.  Over a hundred auto-splits without a hiccup.   

Also did a 2 hour recording at 24/44.1 do confirm that there isn't drift between the stereo pairs.  There does not seem to be any drift. 

[spyder9]

Try Transcend cards guys.  I use them with the DR-1 and never had a problem. 

[spyder9]

I downloaded the samples above.  DR-2d separates itself from the R09HR, with very good bass response.  DR-1 has very good bass response too.  I might do a comp between the DR-1 and DR-2d.  Thanks for the upload.