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Gear / Technical Help => Remote Power => Topic started by: acidjack on December 02, 2009, 10:52:13 AM

Title: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: acidjack on December 02, 2009, 10:52:13 AM
I may have an R-44 coming my way in the future, and I'm trying to figure out how to power it.  I'm pretty much useless when it comes to "making" things like cables, etc. so I am trying to figure out what I should get that's light and works.  I may from time to time carry the unit rather than have it on the floor, so lightness would be nice.

I see references to Tekkeon power units in other threads, but I don't know if, for instance, this thing is overkill: http://www.amazon.com/Tekkeon-MP3450-myPower-Rechargeable-Battery/dp/B000S9JWJI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1259768925&sr=8-3

I read through a few other posts, but some of the discussion went a bit over my head, sad to say...
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: bhadella on December 02, 2009, 11:14:30 AM
Easiest way is to use AA batteries in the battery compartment on the bottom. 

The most cost effective was is to by a "DVD" battery online.  The go by tons of names but the "Initial 5400" is the most common.  You can get them dirt cheap on ebay.

Example:  http://cgi.ebay.com/Initial-Universal-Portable-DVD-battery-Brand-New-Inpack_W0QQitemZ250451484801QQcategoryZ79845QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Initial-Universal-Portable-DVD-battery-Brand-New-Inpack_W0QQitemZ250451484801QQcategoryZ79845QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63)

This battery will come with a generic power cable and charger.  You will need to adapt the power cable to connect to the R44.  If the battery doesn't come with the correct size adapter, you will need to pick one up at Radio Shack.   The R44 takes Adaptaplug size M. 
 
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: acidjack on December 02, 2009, 04:12:16 PM
Thanks - that is perfect (and a lot cheaper)!

Easiest way is to use AA batteries in the battery compartment on the bottom. 

The most cost effective was is to by a "DVD" battery online.  The go by tons of names but the "Initial 5400" is the most common.  You can get them dirt cheap on ebay.

Example:  http://cgi.ebay.com/Initial-Universal-Portable-DVD-battery-Brand-New-Inpack_W0QQitemZ250451484801QQcategoryZ79845QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63
 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Initial-Universal-Portable-DVD-battery-Brand-New-Inpack_W0QQitemZ250451484801QQcategoryZ79845QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%252BDDSIC%26otn%3D10%26ps%3D63)

This battery will come with a generic power cable and charger.  You will need to adapt the power cable to connect to the R44.  If the battery doesn't come with the correct size adapter, you will need to pick one up at Radio Shack.   The R44 takes Adaptaplug size M.
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: SmokinJoe on December 02, 2009, 09:19:14 PM
Seconded on the DVD player batter.  Another name is "RB-270".  Somewhere here there is a thread with a ton of different names.  Some DVD batteries are 7.5V, most are 9V, and you want 9V.

Generally, they come with a cable, and adapter tips.  The problem is that Edirol wires things up backwards with respect to the rest of the world (Edirol has positive on the outside), so you'll need to cut the cable in the middle, and solder it back together with red-black mixed.  R44, R4, and UA-5 all the same in this regard.

Or, if you don't solder, go to Radio Shack and get the "Adapt-a-plug" kit with a cable and a "B" tip and an "M" tip, for the overpriced amount of about $20. Plug one tip on (+) and the other tip on (-).  It doesn't matter which is plus and which is minus, just so long as they aren't both the same.
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: RossW on December 03, 2009, 12:22:28 PM
Edirol may be "backwards," but they're hardly unique in this.  My R-44, Zoom H-4, and an old Sony Discman all use the same configuration for their 9V external power.  I'm sure there are others, but the bottom line is to confirm voltage and polarity before plugging in anything.
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: ero3030 on December 10, 2009, 05:04:19 PM
9v dvd.  outside sleve " + " inside " - " .  ed
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: frogger on December 14, 2009, 10:38:32 AM
What kind of recording time do you get using all 4 channels with this 5400 mAh battery?  How about if you are using it to provide phantom power to 2-4 mics?
TIA,
Chuck
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: DSatz on December 14, 2009, 07:04:41 PM
frogger, I recently bought two DVD batteries and gave them their initial charge, and am now testing with the R-44 to answer exactly the same question. I'll post my results here.

One thing I've found using alkaline AA cells with this unit is that phantom powering makes a big difference in the battery life. The microphones that I mainly use draw about 4.5 mA each (Schoeps CMC 6-- series), which is somewhat higher than most. For the test I'm using a pair of Neumann KM 150s (ca. 2 mA each) plus a pair of the Schoeps for a total of about 13 mA.

--best regards

P.S.: (edited to add) I just checked after half an hour of recording, and the "Full" LED no longer lights up on the battery.
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: frogger on December 14, 2009, 08:35:02 PM
frogger, I recently bought two DVD batteries and gave them their initial charge, and am now testing with the R-44 to answer exactly the same question. I'll post my results here.

One thing I've found using alkaline AA cells with this unit is that phantom powering makes a big difference in the battery life. The microphones that I mainly use draw about 4.5 mA each (Schoeps CMC 6-- series), which is somewhat higher than most. For the test I'm using a pair of Neumann KM 150s (ca. 2 mA each) plus a pair of the Schoeps for a total of about 13 mA.

--best regards

P.S.: (edited to add) I just checked after half an hour of recording, and the "Full" LED no longer lights up on the battery.

Thanks for your reply.  I hope to have an R44 for festival season next year.  I'll primarily be using it with either some AKG 414's, using the phantom power, and/or with some CMC4 Schoeps which, as you know, use the 12V T-power, supplied by me through a battery box or a little box once I get around to purchasing that.  Looking forward to hearing your results.

TIA,
Chuck
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: DSatz on December 14, 2009, 11:41:33 PM
It's been recording room sound for 4 hours, 40 minutes now and there's still one green and one red LED lit on the battery, which according to the little pamphlet means that it's still between 30 and 55% charged.

I should have mentioned this before: A pair of headphones has been plugged in the whole time, though they're not being driven very hard since the recorder and microphones have been in a fairly quiet place. But as you probably know, the current drawn by a microphone doesn't vary as a function of the signal levels that it's putting out.

I'm going to end the experiment now since it's bedtime. Some weekend I might go for the maximum just to see what it is, but 4+ hours with that much current going out to four microphones, plus the ability to hot-swap the batteries to double that time if necessary (since the recorder simply switches to the internal AA cells during the interruption) makes this a very, very useful arrangement.

The only (slight) down side is that it's fairly easy for the power plug to come loose from the recorder, since the power socket is set about 1/4" deep into the "well" area, and the cable has a right-angle connector which rides against the rim surrounding the well.

--best regards

P.S.: I didn't set the cutoff level for external powering to 9.0 Volts; I simply left it set to "Adapter."
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: frogger on December 15, 2009, 10:52:10 AM
Mr. Satz,

Thanks for your experiment.  I hope to get my R44 within the next 2 months and then I'll be buying a few of these batteries to try for myself.

Chuck
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: DSatz on December 26, 2009, 09:46:50 PM
I'm re-running the experiment now. This time I noticed that the first green LED went out the moment the battery was connected to the recorder with four microphones being powered (2 x Schoeps CMC 64 + 2 x Neumann KM 150F). No headphones are plugged in this time.

I'll post more when I know more.

--best regards

Edited later to add: After 7-1/4 hours one green and one red LED still light up on the battery, but it's time for bed with two performances of "La Bohème" to record tomorrow.
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: BayTaynt3d on December 29, 2009, 01:40:10 AM
It's been recording room sound for 4 hours, 40 minutes now and there's still one green and one red LED lit on the battery, which according to the little pamphlet means that it's still between 30 and 55% charged.

I should have mentioned this before: A pair of headphones has been plugged in the whole time, though they're not being driven very hard since the recorder and microphones have been in a fairly quiet place. But as you probably know, the current drawn by a microphone doesn't vary as a function of the signal levels that it's putting out.

I'm going to end the experiment now since it's bedtime. Some weekend I might go for the maximum just to see what it is, but 4+ hours with that much current going out to four microphones, plus the ability to hot-swap the batteries to double that time if necessary (since the recorder simply switches to the internal AA cells during the interruption) makes this a very, very useful arrangement.

The only (slight) down side is that it's fairly easy for the power plug to come loose from the recorder, since the power socket is set about 1/4" deep into the "well" area, and the cable has a right-angle connector which rides against the rim surrounding the well.

--best regards

P.S.: I didn't set the cutoff level for external powering to 9.0 Volts; I simply left it set to "Adapter."


I actually gaffer taped a 9v DVD battery to the bottom of my R44 more than a year and a half ago and have never looked back and have never taken it off. The right angle mini jacks are also taped both to the battery and to the recorder -- semi-permanently. This obviously won't work for everyone, but I never use AA's and in the few rare cases where I need more than 5+ hours of run time, I bring a second DVD and just un-gaffer the cord from the one battery to the other.

Also, FWIW, I easily get 5+ hours on one charge with all four channels running phantom, running at 24/44.1, monitoring with headphones, and with the LCD on the entire time -- and I bet it'd go another two hours before completely draining considering it rarely drops beyond three lights left for "normal" gigs. For "normal gigs" (say 2-3 hours each), it's a no-brainer, I no longer ever worry about running out, never worry about having AC power, never worry about it coming unplugged, and I can dump the files when I get home on the same charge still (for probably 50 recordings at this point, it's never failed me even once). It's freakin' great, especially compared to AA's, where I was always worried about running out.

You can get a glimpse of my gaffered setup and a perfect bag for the R44 at this old post of mine:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=107018.msg1431179#msg1431179
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: acidjack on January 11, 2010, 11:11:08 PM
Seconded on the DVD player batter.  Another name is "RB-270".  Somewhere here there is a thread with a ton of different names.  Some DVD batteries are 7.5V, most are 9V, and you want 9V.

Generally, they come with a cable, and adapter tips.  The problem is that Edirol wires things up backwards with respect to the rest of the world (Edirol has positive on the outside), so you'll need to cut the cable in the middle, and solder it back together with red-black mixed.  R44, R4, and UA-5 all the same in this regard.

Or, if you don't solder, go to Radio Shack and get the "Adapt-a-plug" kit with a cable and a "B" tip and an "M" tip, for the overpriced amount of about $20. Plug one tip on (+) and the other tip on (-).  It doesn't matter which is plus and which is minus, just so long as they aren't both the same.

OK, so just to be clear (I finally got around to picking this stuff up):

1. Plug adaptaplug (B) into one end.
2. Plug adaptaplug (M) into the other.
3. Does not matter which end is plugged into the R-44

is that it?
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: kirk97132 on January 12, 2010, 04:43:34 PM
Seconded on the DVD player batter.  Another name is "RB-270".  Somewhere here there is a thread with a ton of different names.  Some DVD batteries are 7.5V, most are 9V, and you want 9V.

Generally, they come with a cable, and adapter tips.  The problem is that Edirol wires things up backwards with respect to the rest of the world (Edirol has positive on the outside), so you'll need to cut the cable in the middle, and solder it back together with red-black mixed.  R44, R4, and UA-5 all the same in this regard.

Or, if you don't solder, go to Radio Shack and get the "Adapt-a-plug" kit with a cable and a "B" tip and an "M" tip, for the overpriced amount of about $20. Plug one tip on (+) and the other tip on (-).  It doesn't matter which is plus and which is minus, just so long as they aren't both the same.

OK, so just to be clear (I finally got around to picking this stuff up):

1. Plug adaptaplug (B) into one end.
2. Plug adaptaplug (M) into the other.
3. Does not matter which end is plugged into the R-44

is that it?
NO, not exactly.  Only one end will fit the R-44, you can look at it and tell.  Make sure that you did not reverse polarity on both ends, only one end should have reversed polarity. 
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: sleepypedro on January 16, 2010, 10:11:24 AM
r4 side:  adaptaplug M.  tip -

battery side:  adaptaplug B, tip +
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: acidjack on January 16, 2010, 02:51:35 PM
OK, I have the plug - one tip B, one tip M.

I'm still a touch confused, though, as both tips have a "-" on the back and a "+" on the front (plug) side.

When I bought them I didn't see a choice of buying + or - plugs... am I missing something?
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: alpine85 on July 01, 2010, 03:08:54 PM
OK, so after having power issues at a recent show (and thus not getting the last 30 minutes or so recorded... DOH!),  I vowed to never let this happen again and finally picked up one of the RB-270 batteries off eBay and all the necessary adaptaplug hardware, and got everything working fine. 

My question is... what's the best way to get this battery "conditioned"?  I fully charged it right away when I got it (this was a few weeks ago, but I'm assuming it's still fully charged). 

Do I need to run it down all the way to zero and then give it a full charge again?

Is there a preferred method of draining/charging to get maximum charge and long term best performance out of these things?

Acidjack - did you get the polarity thing figured out?  The markings are a little hard to see - the important thing is to reverse only one connector (it doesn't matter which one).

 
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: alpine85 on July 08, 2010, 04:03:02 PM
bump

I'm planning to use the battery to record a show tomorrow, so I'm wondering what I need to do.

Ran some tests at home with my whole rig & the battery - maybe an hour total, and my battery is still showing "almost full" (the "full" light out, all others on).

Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: Gutbucket on July 08, 2010, 05:59:16 PM
I posted some extensive info on Li-ions awhile back, see this thread:
Guidelines for prolonging Li-ion battery life  (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=118876.msg1588991#msg1588991)
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: alpine85 on July 08, 2010, 11:02:39 PM
Thanks Lee, that's what I was looking for.  I figured there had to be some discussion here on TS, but my searches with "rb-270" and other specific terms were coming up with nothing, and the more generic ones were getting way too many results to sift through.

Interesting, because I always assumed it was best to fully drain these before recharching (WRONG!).

So it sounds like the "40%" rule applies right away, and since I'm probably at 80-90% right now, I should just record the show tomorrow and that would bring me down to a good level for storage. 
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: rastasean on July 09, 2010, 05:24:15 PM
Just to be clear, is there a cable to go between b tip and m tip that is available at r shack or do you make the cable?
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: alpine85 on July 12, 2010, 09:55:55 PM
The cable is a 6ft cable (not 6 inches like the web site says).  My local RS store had it, along with both tips:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3875412

Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: flipp on July 12, 2010, 10:54:54 PM
You can also get two single adaptaplug female sockets and connect them together if you need a cable less than a foot long. The pigtails on this are about 5" long. Two of these are cheaper than the 6' cable linked above.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3807941

As always, check with a VOM when done to verify polarity.
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: rastasean on July 12, 2010, 11:12:07 PM
thanks for your input.

i went to a small town radio shack and found the adaptaplugs B & M but not the cable to go in between them. the lady told me the cable doesn't exist so I walked out of there scratching my head considering I saw it on RADIO SHACK'S WEBSITE EARLIER IN THE DAY.

I'll check locally later this week at radio shack...although Ted's power cable is very reasonably priced considering the b&m plugs are $7 each and the cable is another $9.5.

Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: Neilyboy on July 13, 2010, 09:07:14 AM
get yourself a solder gun.. a short length of cable..

B: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102598
M: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103614

reverse the tip and sleeve check with volt meter and voila!

Neil
Title: Re: Easiest way to power an R-44?
Post by: Elguapo511 on December 13, 2018, 09:13:16 PM
What is the current front runner.

This is an old thread with a lot of old links.
?
Is there a solution under $50?  and do any of them come with the correct cable?  or will i always have to outsource