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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: aaronji on October 13, 2014, 04:05:38 PM

Title: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on October 13, 2014, 04:05:38 PM
Hard to believe it has been five years since the first post...Continued from:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160902.360 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160902.360)

Starts of previous threads:

Part 7: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160902.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160902.0)
Part 6: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=154969.0)
Part 5: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145955.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145955.0)
Part 4: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139638.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139638.0)
Part 3: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136665.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136665.0)
Part 2: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130924.0)
Part 1: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124639.0)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Scooter123 on October 21, 2014, 01:33:44 PM
I called today and inquired about a new Sony PCM-M10 and was advised by my dealer that Sony has announced that the M-10 will be discontinued. 

For those dealers that have no stock, prices may creep a little higher, as Sony is not discounting the unit. 

For those dealers that have large stock supplies, you may see prices dip below $200.

I found a unit at Guitar Center, for in stock items only, for $170 free shipping.  B&H has it for $199 free shipping.   Sweetwater has it for $250. 

No replacement model has been announced, but I assume an announcement is forthcoming. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 21, 2014, 02:36:25 PM
well, CES isnt until January
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on October 21, 2014, 04:06:41 PM
Interesting!  I wonder what they have on tap for new models?  As I noted above, it has been five years since the M10 came out, so the time is ripe for an update (that doesn't cost 800 bucks like the D100)...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: yates7592 on October 21, 2014, 05:07:52 PM
To be honest, what can be done to improve the M10 and keep it in roughly the same price bracket?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on October 21, 2014, 05:41:13 PM
Maybe not quite the same price bracket, but I'd like to see Sony make a 4 or 6 channel competitor to the Zoom H6 or the new Tascam recorder - something with 4 XLR inputs like those others but with Sony's superior build quality and battery life.  I was disappointed when the D100 came out - that they upgraded the built-in mics and the DAC but added no useful functionality.

Maybe I just just shut up and keep saving my pennies for a Sound Devices 633...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Scooter123 on October 22, 2014, 12:28:16 AM
For what it is, a small stealthy 2 ch recorder with a great display and superior battery life, I cannot think of a single improvement I would recommend. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on October 22, 2014, 02:59:44 AM
Even smaller w/9V PIP and WiFi to hook up to your phone (for control) would be the shit...but I'm not holding out on that.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ozpeter on October 22, 2014, 06:10:59 AM
Quote
To be honest, what can be done to improve the M10 and keep it in roughly the same price bracket?

I'm saying nothing.  Absolutely nothing. 

Well, ok, mics that are not omnis with almost no separation.  Having said that, any other mic scheme would result almost certainly in a noticably larger device, which in itself might be a pity.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on October 22, 2014, 11:08:30 AM
Adjustable PiP on the line input.
Maybe a 4-track option.
Call it the M11.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 22, 2014, 11:15:11 AM
Remember, we are the low volume buyers, most users of the M10 are not concert archivists (us), they are reporters and that type... we just get lucky with the higher settings and menu options.
But I will take it :)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gormenghast on October 22, 2014, 11:43:23 AM
Anyone remember the M1/D100?   We are so spoiled with this tiny recorder.   I have D50 and still grab the M10 every time. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 22, 2014, 01:02:21 PM
I went D7 > D100 > M1 > (some edirols) > M10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Fried Chicken Boy on October 22, 2014, 03:53:14 PM
Even smaller w/9V PIP and WiFi to hook up to your phone (for control) would be the shit...but I'm not holding out on that.

Since we're talking wishlist, I'd like to see SPDIF/digi-in on a reasonably-priced pocket deck more than anything else.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on October 22, 2014, 05:26:31 PM
Lockable gain wheel, anyone?

That said, I may well pick up a second M10 before they disappear. Didn't take long with mine for me to become a convert. (And I'm a concert archivist *and* a reporter, and use it for both.)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Scooter123 on October 22, 2014, 11:15:34 PM
Actually, I'll agree with Mr. Fried Chicken and say a digital in/our would really nice to synch decks.  However, there is not enough real estate on the sides of the deck to make that happen with growing the unit. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on November 01, 2014, 02:05:08 PM
I would enjoy bigger font on the LCD screen for us guys that cant see the fine print.

Yes the digital in /out option would be great too.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: F.O.Bean on November 06, 2014, 10:07:29 AM
Only improvement I really want is a lockable gain knob. Other than that, the m10 is perfect IMO!!!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: meursault on November 08, 2014, 09:03:34 AM
I would love an updated pcm-m10 with no speaker, no mics, and better ui.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on November 11, 2014, 01:37:12 AM
I love the built in speaker.Atlease  I can quick check if it recorded without headphones.I see people complained  about the sound is to low.I think my M10 plays louder then the R-09HR.I was not happy they drop the speaker on the R-05.The mics probably only good on both recorders for note taking.They are useless for loud live work.

I also like  to make a note about the M10 battery compartment design. Its alot better then the R-09HR.The R-09HR clip tend to bend in and loose connection and hard to read which way to install the batteries.The Sony  spring design is alot better and easy to install batteries.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on November 11, 2014, 12:05:45 PM
I also like  to make a note about the M10 battery compartment design. Its alot better then the R-09HR.The R-09HR clip tend to bend in and loose connection and hard to read which way to install the batteries.The Sony  spring design is alot better and easy to install batteries.
The hinges of the battery door are flimsy and need a more sturdy design.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on November 11, 2014, 12:31:55 PM
I also like  to make a note about the M10 battery compartment design. Its alot better then the R-09HR.The R-09HR clip tend to bend in and loose connection and hard to read which way to install the batteries.The Sony  spring design is alot better and easy to install batteries.
The hinges of the battery door are flimsy and need a more sturdy design.

Yes I forgot to add that.The design probably looked good on the drafting table but in reality it stinks.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: H₂O on November 11, 2014, 01:18:04 PM
aes in
Balanced analog in
No mics
No preamp
DSD

Basically a d100 without mics, preamps, and all balanced inputs

Add wordclock io
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: pillowman on November 20, 2014, 02:23:18 PM
hello !

I have some problems with my new M10 - are there any germans outside who can help.
I prefer to talk about those things via my motherlanguage  ???

I have some very important shows in the near future and I really need some help !!!

please contact me who ever read these lines,
please !!!
---
pillowman
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on November 22, 2014, 12:50:42 AM
What is the nature of the problem?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: anr on December 04, 2014, 10:33:14 AM
It looks like a friend's M10 has dodgy line in jack, after some years faithful service.   I think she'll just get a new one but if anyone has a link to the breakdown instructions for an M10 I'd be grateful.

Many thanks
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dyneq on December 04, 2014, 11:21:28 AM
Did she try cleaning it first? It's rare that a jack out right fails unless a lot of stress has been placed on it or there's a manufacturing defect. I use Caig's cleaner with their 1/8" brush, but dipping a plug in some 90% or higher alcohol and inserting it repeatedly in the jack will usually do the trick.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: anr on December 04, 2014, 01:13:55 PM
Thanks dyneq.   Yes, tried all that.  All cables and battery box have been replaced.  Same problem with at least 3 sets of mics.  It was bought when they first came out and has cost about 2 cents a show, so it's not due her anything!  But retaining it after repair as a backup is a good option.  I do recall someone stripped one down and posted diagrams.   
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: NSL on January 05, 2015, 10:47:55 AM
Did the entire Umphrey's NYE run without changing batteries on the M10. 5 nights, 11 sets, all over an hour plus a 4 hour ride home listening back. Only dropped one bar
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: F.O.Bean on January 06, 2015, 01:10:44 AM
Did the entire Umphrey's NYE run without changing batteries on the M10. 5 nights, 11 sets, all over an hour plus a 4 hour ride home listening back. Only dropped one bar

Lithiums? I can still get around 18-20 hours on my m10s with 5 year old Energizer 2300mah AAs ;D 8) But I have a HQ charger and did a proper "break-in" when I first got them! Well worth the $60 I spent on my charger :)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: NSL on January 10, 2015, 02:19:32 PM
Did the entire Umphrey's NYE run without changing batteries on the M10. 5 nights, 11 sets, all over an hour plus a 4 hour ride home listening back. Only dropped one bar

Lithiums? I can still get around 18-20 hours on my m10s with 5 year old Energizer 2300mah AAs ;D 8) But I have a HQ charger and did a proper "break-in" when I first got them! Well worth the $60 I spent on my charger :)

Rayovac AA batteries
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: TimeBandit on January 14, 2015, 09:22:50 AM
Have my M10 now from the Thomann Deal for 174 Euros ...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: rastasean on January 19, 2015, 08:34:20 PM
I called today and inquired about a new Sony PCM-M10 and was advised by my dealer that Sony has announced that the M-10 will be discontinued. 

For those dealers that have no stock, prices may creep a little higher, as Sony is not discounting the unit. 

For those dealers that have large stock supplies, you may see prices dip below $200.

I found a unit at Guitar Center, for in stock items only, for $170 free shipping.  B&H has it for $199 free shipping.   Sweetwater has it for $250. 

No replacement model has been announced, but I assume an announcement is forthcoming.


Doesn't look like anything has been announced yet: https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/resource.latest
as the m10 is still listed.

I'd like:
cardioid microphones
Maybe dual recording like you can do on tascam's dr-2d

Don't want:
touch screen
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: taosmay on May 17, 2015, 11:16:36 PM
I've been thinking about replacing my R-09HR. Since so many people have loved the M10, and who knows what will come if/when it is discontinued, I just ordered an M10 at B&H for $199.  Hopefully it will work nicely with my CA14 cards (which I usually tape to the sides of my eyeglasses), or my CA11 croakie cards > CA9200 pre.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: powermonkey on May 18, 2015, 02:39:10 PM
I've been thinking about replacing my R-09HR. Since so many people have loved the M10, and who knows what will come if/when it is discontinued, I just ordered an M10 at B&H for $199.  Hopefully it will work nicely with my CA14 cards (which I usually tape to the sides of my eyeglasses), or my CA11 croakie cards > CA9200 pre.

An M10 will definitely play nicely with the CA11>CA9200 combination. Here's the first show I taped with the same set-up:

https://soundcloud.com/liverecordings-1/sets/idlewild-the-roundhouse-london-2015-03-13

Really happy with that :)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on May 18, 2015, 03:20:54 PM
I'm so glad I got the M10 .So far I got 2 great shows out of it with the Sony mics.Kept the volume knob around 3 and 3 1/2  and it came out great.I have no issues with the knob turning and I'm glad they have that type of level control then the digital type that the R09HR has.If they upgrade it.They could make the font on the screen bigger  is my only rant about it..I dont need touch screen and WiFi features like the new digital cameras have.I wish the price at B&H will come down on it since I purchased it from there last year to replace my R09HR.I use the R09HR for the backup since it still runs great and it replaced the Sony minidisc I was using for the backup recorder.

I would love to pick up another M10 up  before they close out on them.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Kevin T on May 21, 2015, 10:50:46 AM
X/Y internal mics with wider stereo
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 14, 2015, 01:57:20 PM
for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option?  I'm also looking at the R-05.  I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh.  Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement.  I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on July 14, 2015, 02:29:51 PM
M10 has the killer battery life...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on July 14, 2015, 02:39:49 PM
for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option?  I'm also looking at the R-05.  I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh.  Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement.  I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!

I had an R-05.  I liked it but there seems to be a design issue with the circuit board where the inputs will eventually short out even with gentle use (and it's on the board, not in any wiring). 

I replaced that R-05 with an M-10.

The R-05 is very compact and seems to have good specs especially through the line-in.  It is definitely more cheaply made and less rugged feeling than the M-10 though.  The M-10 recording level control (the wheel) is way, way better than the R-05 push button.  Worth the upgrade for that alone IMO.  The test specs are better (I think it is a little quieter, cleaner though that may not matter with loud shows).  The M-10 limiter is much better.  The battery life is better. 

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 14, 2015, 02:44:16 PM
thanks bomb.  I never mess with input level since I just do my analog levels through my CA-9200 amp, but I'll keep that in mind.  If there will be issues down the road with the board, that's good info.

My concerns with the M-10 are microSD (bleh) and the wheel that can get bumped if it's in my pocket (I have a couple low-pro amps to use for certain situations).

Being used to the R09 for almost 10 years the interface is easy for me too.

Is the M-10 going away?  Most Amazon listings seem to be used now.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on July 14, 2015, 02:49:45 PM
thanks bomb.  I never mess with input level since I just do my analog levels through my CA-9200 amp, but I'll keep that in mind.  If there will be issues down the road with the board, that's good info.

My concerns with the M-10 are microSD (bleh) and the wheel that can get bumped if it's in my pocket (I have a couple low-pro amps to use for certain situations).

Being used to the R09 for almost 10 years the interface is easy for me too.

I don't like the microSD either (and had to get some cards for it, but they're cheap now).  The Sony does have 2 GB internal, which has been useful on occasion (like if you forget a card or run out of room as it will seemlessly go cross-memory).   The wheel seems pretty hard to move unintentionally.  I think the lock locks the levels as well (but not sure about that)?

If you got 10 years out of the R-09 that's great.  I'd be very concerned you wouldn't get more than a few months from an R-05 in your pocket (mine was never pocketed). 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on July 14, 2015, 03:00:51 PM
for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option?  I'm also looking at the R-05.  I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh.  Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement.  I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!

My R-09HR sometimes has lines in it.It comes and goes.I still use it for a back up.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 14, 2015, 03:23:06 PM
thanks all!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on July 14, 2015, 04:05:11 PM
Quote
My concerns with the M-10 are microSD (bleh)

IMHO, no issue, cheap and just format ever couple of shows, and good as new

Quote
the wheel that can get bumped if it's in my pocket (I have a couple low-pro amps to use for certain situations).

Rare, I have been using the m10 since it came out with no issue at all on the knob being bumped or changed in the pocket
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dallman on July 14, 2015, 04:05:26 PM
for solely using as the input for mics, with a powered amp (CA), is this the best option?  I'm also looking at the R-05.  I have an R-09HR but I used it last week and it seems something has hit it hard enough to make the screen have lines in it and there is something rattling inside.... sigh.  Sucks.

So I'm looking for a possible replacement.  I wasn't sure if the R-05 was better than the R-09HR, and/or if the M10 was better than R-05 in some way (other than mics, which I won't be using).

Thanks!

I had an R-05.  I liked it but there seems to be a design issue with the circuit board where the inputs will eventually short out even with gentle use (and it's on the board, not in any wiring). 

I replaced that R-05 with an M-10.

The R-05 is very compact and seems to have good specs especially through the line-in.  It is definitely more cheaply made and less rugged feeling than the M-10 though.  The M-10 recording level control (the wheel) is way, way better than the R-05 push button.  Worth the upgrade for that alone IMO.  The test specs are better (I think it is a little quieter, cleaner though that may not matter with loud shows).  The M-10 limiter is much better.  The battery life is better.

I have two R-05's and they both get used at least every week, mostly in low pro situations. They are both from when the model was first introduced and I  have never had any issues. I also had one I sold, the hold switch had stopped working, but in all other ways it functioned as nicely as if brand new. I have not heard of any design issues and the deck is still sold. I guess it's apples and oranges, because I think the M-10 is more poorly made, with issues of the 2 channels not being balanced and the micro card being very touchy, as well as the battery door.  I think the Marantz PMD 620 MKII, not the original one, is better than both, as well as the DR-2d, which is a bit bigger than I prefer, but I still like to use the R-05 as my low pro go to  I think it probably is a matter of taste and personal preference.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 14, 2015, 04:22:38 PM
thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on July 14, 2015, 09:35:02 PM
Since I just transfer the files from the M10 to my computer and move them to my external HD.I dont even touch the MicroSD card.The card been in the M10 since I got it.
I had no issues with the volume knob.Luckily its still stiff to turn and gets taped for just in case it gets hit.
My only gripe and rant  with the M10 is the small print on the screen.The  R-09HR is readable with the black and white screen.

I hope Sony  dont kill the M10 off yet because I like to get another M10 for a backup and retire the R-09HR   because its getting old and just use it for simple tasks.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 14, 2015, 10:07:41 PM
Since I just transfer the files from the M10 to my computer and move them to my external HD.I dont even touch the MicroSD card.The card been in the M10 since I got it.

Same here. And while the lock does *not* lock the gain, I never have any problems with the gain wheel turning unintentionally either. (The switches on the back do occasionally, but that's immediately apparent on the display, and a couple pieces of tape will take care of that regardless.)

The battery life is truly ridiculous. I never remember to turn the damn thing off, and the batteries still last for months.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on July 14, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
Since I just transfer the files from the M10 to my computer and move them to my external HD.I dont even touch the MicroSD card.The card been in the M10 since I got it.

Same here. And while the lock does *not* lock the gain, I never have any problems with the gain wheel turning unintentionally either. (The switches on the back do occasionally, but that's immediately apparent on the display, and a couple pieces of tape will take care of that regardless.)

The battery life is truly ridiculous. I never remember to turn the damn thing off, and the batteries still last for months.

Yea .I tape the  backside switches up too.I agree 110 percent on the battery life.Running and on standby .I just swop the rechargeable Duracell batteries every month just to keep it happy.I'm happier with the old fashion rotary  gain knob then the digital gain control  on the  R-09HR.

Sony did a nice job of coming up the this recorder.I wonder what they will come up next .
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 15, 2015, 09:31:55 AM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on July 15, 2015, 12:43:02 PM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

Tinybox...  though I'd rather fine adjust on the recorder anyway. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 15, 2015, 02:53:50 PM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

No external amp here, just battery box.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: chinariderstl on July 15, 2015, 02:58:13 PM
In. :)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on July 15, 2015, 07:11:17 PM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

nBoxPremium has nothing but on/off, the m10 is volume control
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 15, 2015, 10:46:23 PM
interesting.  I guess I do it backwards.  I love my 9100 but it's pretty big.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Brian Emerick on July 15, 2015, 10:48:28 PM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

nBoxPremium has nothing but on/off, the m10 is volume control

what's an "nBoxPremium"?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: down2earthlandscaper on July 16, 2015, 03:33:05 AM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

I have the CA-9100 preamp and I use the level adjustment on that AND the wheel on the Sony PCM m10. It is very nice to have both for fine tuning. Micro SD are not too expensive. I use a 32gb and get 15 hours of recording time at 24/96
After every show I copy to my computer, but leave the original wav file on the micro SD. I like to keep to keep the cards as a backup, and its also nice to keep the music on there so I can use the M10 for playback on headphones or plugged into the AUX jack on my car stereo, so that's another reason I don't clear the card and reuse.
When the card fills up I just put it away in a little box. All my original recordings are in there. It's comforting to know that they are all there safe in case my computer crashes, is stolen, or whatever…

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: vanark on July 16, 2015, 06:39:29 AM
If I am using the preamp to adjust the gain, the gain wheel on the M10 is at 4.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: willndmb on July 16, 2015, 09:30:38 AM
those who use the gain knob, are you not using an external amp?  I don't even mess with gain on my recorder, just use my 9100's analog.

nBoxPremium has nothing but on/off, the m10 is volume control

what's an "nBoxPremium"?
nbox/nbox platinum
It's is a box made by a ts member to power schoeps mics (and now some others like nbob akg actives)
Runs on 4 9v batteries. Platinum one runs for days while regular not so much
It may have built in gain but one way or the other you must use the m10 to adjust overall gain/volume with this set up.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on July 16, 2015, 09:43:04 AM
When the card fills up I just put it away in a little box. All my original recordings are in there. It's comforting to know that they are all there safe in case my computer crashes, is stolen, or whatever…

I reuse my card, but not before I've backed up my recordings both to an external backup drive and to Crashplan. (Which is what I do with all my files these days.)

Also, forgot to mention that the M10 will cross-save data (with no gaps) to its internal memory and the card if it runs out of room on one or the other. Not sure if that's common for other devices, but it's a nice feature regardless.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ts on August 17, 2015, 09:46:03 AM
Can an M10 that switches to internal memory even though the memory card is not full, be considered faulty? I never have issues when doing single shows, but at festivals this happens all day long. The memory card is no where close to full and it just switches to internal. Yes I have it set to cross memory and also have it set to record to card first. I'm going to do some tests at home with the cross record disabled, run it all day on memory card and see what happens.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on August 17, 2015, 09:49:16 AM
I would consider that faulty.  Is it possible that the memory card is damaged or doesn't really have the capacity that it is supposed to have?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: beatkilla on August 17, 2015, 09:51:54 AM
What size card is it >and does it switch to internal at the same amount of data each time?Either the card is too big for the m10 or it is counterfeit i think.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on August 17, 2015, 10:11:30 AM
try to use SDformat tool and then re-format in the M10 and re-test, imho
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ts on August 17, 2015, 11:08:51 AM
It's a new 32GB SanDisk. This is the second card I tried. Also did the same thing with a 64GB Silicon Power, but I found the SP card to be bad. Both cards formatted in the M10. I guess its possible to have two bad cards. The SanDisk says it has 22 gigs free. I don't know if its switching to internal at the same amount of data each time. I'll have to check that.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on August 17, 2015, 12:28:32 PM
how do the cards read in a computer? same volume (give or take a smidge) free?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on August 17, 2015, 12:38:41 PM
I'd wonder where the cards came from... 

The counterfeits have a way of reformatting to make them appear they have the nominal volume they're supposed to but they run out when the real size is reached.  It sounds like the card is holding about 8 GB?  Perhaps a cheap 8 GB card re-labelled and sold as a 32 GB "Sandisk"? 

As has been said around here a lot of times don't buy discounted cards on ebay or Amazon.  Make sure you buy retail packaged from some place like Staples, Best Buy or somewhere that is buying direct from the manufacturer...   

I'd be surprised if it's a real card.  In the computer as an exercise you could try copying 20 GB or whatever of files onto it and see if they actually fit. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on August 17, 2015, 12:55:30 PM
Got to watch out for those counterfeits online or dollar store.

I just keep the micro in the M10 and transfer the recordings to to my backup drive and to a regular size SD for  backup and storage.

I had a PNY card go bad in my  new Nikon Digital camera last November .I send it to a friend who does file recovery and he said the the controller chip inside the SD fried and could not find a donor controller chip to replace the bad one.The SD card was about 4 years old and it was will used in my digital cameras  .The R-09HR,MP3 player Digital picture frame to just name a few. I think I purchased it at BJs or Walmart.Sorry about drifting off the topic.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ts on August 17, 2015, 01:10:01 PM
I don't think either card is counterfeit. They were bought from B&H. Both cards are to old at this point to return.

I always had problems with the SP card. Tried all kinds of formatters. But again, by the time I realized the card was toast it was to late to return it.

The SanDisk is reading as a 32GB on the laptop and it was formatted in the M10.

I'm going to try a different card and let it run with cross record off, but it is kind of hard to trust the recorder at this point. I did lose a couple sets over the weekend.



Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: audBall on August 17, 2015, 01:13:59 PM
As has been said around here a lot of times don't buy discounted cards on ebay or Amazon.  Make sure you buy retail packaged from some place like Staples, Best Buy or somewhere that is buying direct from the manufacturer...   

I always thought Amazon was one of the legit retailers, provided you're not purchasing from a third party. I know that Sandisk sells directly on there and have bought from them in the past. Should I be avoiding Amazon as a whole for memory from now on?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on August 17, 2015, 09:28:05 PM
I have had a genuine retail-packaged, full-price 64GB SanDisk microsd go bad on me before.  It wasn't right away, but after a few months using in my phone holding music, it read fine but acted as though it was write protected (it wasn't - you just couldn't delete anything or write to it.)  It couldn't be formatted in any device, and even a low-level format wouldn't work.  The replacement I bought has worked fine in 2 phones since then.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ts on August 18, 2015, 08:45:46 AM
Its looking like I have a faulty M10. It takes two or three tries to get any card to load. There must be some damage inside that slot. This could be why its switching to internal memory while recording. I remember at a fest last year another taper tried to load the card backwards. :facepalm:

Anyone have Sony repair info? Or maybe I should just get another 70D. ;)

Edit: Looks like the LA service is the one for audio?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on August 18, 2015, 12:19:56 PM
Its looking like I have a faulty M10. It takes two or three tries to get any card to load. There must be some damage inside that slot. This could be why its switching to internal memory while recording. I remember at a fest last year another taper tried to load the card backwards. :facepalm:

Anyone have Sony repair info? Or maybe I should just get another 70D. ;)

Edit: Looks like the LA service is the one for audio?

I wonder if the SDcard slot contacts need cleaning.I had issues with other devices with dirty contacts.Or the taper did screw up the slot like you said.I split open  fix one of my digital camera and clean the dust,pocket lint out of it and rebent the pins in.I dont recommend anybody doing  this unless they know how to work on  electronics.I had to do it with the R-09HR.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on August 18, 2015, 12:51:17 PM
Re ^ and ^^ and ^^^^

I don't think either card is counterfeit. They were bought from B&H. Both cards are to old at this point to return.

Cards from B&H should be legit, though the no-name one may have it's own issues...   

Amazon should be a legit but you have to watch out that it's really from Amazon.  Third party sellers can be anything and occasionally Amazon will take orders and flip them over to third party sellers in their channel.  I'd assume they wouldn't do that with cards but who knows...

The slot could be bad though I'm not sure why it would start out OK then at some point stop reading.  Perhaps it seems that was an interim problem before it failed completely though? 

Sorry to hear it...  The card slot is the one thing that makes me a bit uncomfortable about the recorder...  It seems really flimsy and it can be touchy on the load.  I may be used to it now but I did have one episode where it seemed loaded but wasn't completely and only showed the internal memory.  I'm starting to lean more toward the cable approach to transfer files despite how slow it is. 

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on August 18, 2015, 01:18:46 PM
^, ^^, ^^^:

When my first M10 needed service, I was instructed to send it to the Teaneck, NJ service center.  I'm on the east coast, so it may be based on your region.  My internal mics had about a 3dB imbalance, and they promptly determined it was a manufacturing defect and sent out a new unit.

The microSD slot is a weak point.  I used only the internal memory for a long time, but the first time I tried to use a card, I kept trying to put it in backwards.  It's also easy to put it in the correct way, but slightly misaligned.  You have to be very careful with it.

Because of this, I never take the card out and transfer through the recorder.  The slow transfer speed is worth it to not have to deal with the card.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ts on August 18, 2015, 02:19:41 PM
^, ^^, ^^^:

When my first M10 needed service, I was instructed to send it to the Teaneck, NJ service center.  I'm on the east coast, so it may be based on your region.  My internal mics had about a 3dB imbalance, and they promptly determined it was a manufacturing defect and sent out a new unit.

The microSD slot is a weak point.  I used only the internal memory for a long time, but the first time I tried to use a card, I kept trying to put it in backwards.  It's also easy to put it in the correct way, but slightly misaligned.  You have to be very careful with it.

Because of this, I never take the card out and transfer through the recorder.  The slow transfer speed is worth it to not have to deal with the card.

I always take the card out and it is sloppy going back in. I sometimes get an error message after loading. Once its loaded properly it should be good to go. Teaneck it is. I really can't trust it at this point.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on August 18, 2015, 02:43:33 PM
The microSD slot is a weak point.  I used only the internal memory for a long time, but the first time I tried to use a card, I kept trying to put it in backwards.  It's also easy to put it in the correct way, but slightly misaligned.  You have to be very careful with it.
Because of this, I never take the card out and transfer through the recorder.  The slow transfer speed is worth it to not have to deal with the card.

It took me a few "duh" moments to realize that the micro card only works in the position of the graphic on the back of the unit, and you should only put the card "that way"

Also, I take my card out after every show for a faster transfer via a full SD card, into the slot in my laptop... and no issues with that, I am just easy with the card removal and replacement.

I can tell you from experience, it it best for the card to be formatted after ever few shows, it just seems to run "cleaner"
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: adrianb on August 19, 2015, 03:42:01 AM
My 64gb microSD card comes out every time I record something to transfer the files to my laptop. I also use my M10 as my portable music player, so frequently take the card out to swap music files around. When the card is nearly full I take the card out to delete all my recordings. The only time the card was formatted was the day it arrived from Amazon. I've had no problems so far.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ts on August 22, 2015, 07:17:53 PM
I've been recording all week to the memory card and no issues. I have it set to card first and cross is on. So I'm guessing I got it to mount proprerly and from now on I'll leave it in and transfer via M10 instead of removing the card. Either that or request a repair.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: popskull on August 22, 2015, 10:58:33 PM
Any guesses as to what the LCF Low Cut Filter rolls off at?

I looked through the manual and did not find anything. I also searched the forums and came up empty so apoligies in advance if this has already been covered
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: audBall on August 23, 2015, 12:25:11 PM
Any guesses as to what the LCF Low Cut Filter rolls off at?

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=148448.0

"Lo cut filter frequency starts at 200Hz, 24dB/Octave filter, effects both Mic and Line input"
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: EWizard on October 02, 2015, 02:54:29 PM
Finally finished reading this entire thread.  Some great info in here.
I bought an M10 a few weeks ago and have been digitizing my vinyl collection with it.
Haven't gotten to record any shows yet with it, but I did go ahead and order a CA-9200, a pair of CA-14 Cards, and a pair of CA-14 Omnis.
I can already tell this player is waaay better than the Sony DAT player I used to record with in the 90's.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: justink on October 02, 2015, 07:17:45 PM
Checking in.  just got one yesterday.  although the 32gb card that came with it doesn't seem to be recognized.  any card suggestions?

i don't have the time to backread the entire thread...

what are the best settings for what we do?  what should i turn on/off?

thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: chinariderstl on October 02, 2015, 07:24:57 PM
This is the card I use; it works like a charm! :)

# SanDisk Ultra 16GB UHS-I/Class 10 Micro SDHC
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M55C0LK
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: willndmb on October 03, 2015, 01:50:36 PM
Checking in.  just got one yesterday.  although the 32gb card that came with it doesn't seem to be recognized.  any card suggestions?

i don't have the time to backread the entire thread...

what are the best settings for what we do?  what should i turn on/off?

thanks!
flip the card over, willing to bet its in backwards - common user error
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: earmonger on October 03, 2015, 11:29:36 PM
About settings...they're in a PCM-M10 thread here somewhere.

Just go through the Menu and Detail Menu sub-menu and mostly use common sense. REC mode .wav or at least 320, Memory internal or external card (your choice).  In the Detail Menu enable Cross-Memory Recording so if you run out on the card it switches to internal (or vice versa).  Choose your battery type (NiMH are rechargeables) and how long you want the backlight to stay on. 

PRE REC....when you hit Record it's paused (and blinking) so you can find a level. You have to then hit  Pause to start recording.  Pre Rec On means that it will grab 5 seconds before you started (un-paused) if you're a little slow. 

Limiter is contentious here but I always have it on.  If there's a HUGE LOUD PEAK the limiter will drop your record level. Otherwise it does nothing whatsoever. It's not like the compressors (sometimes called limiters) used at radio stations or studios that keep all the music within a narrow dynamic range. I think of it as the airbag--just there for emergencies. 

Don't forget the switches on the back! They make a big difference. Use Manual Level (Take a look at how the display reverses when it's on Auto). DPC off. Probably Low sensitivity, though that only affects internal mics and mic recording and you're going to be going Line-in with the preamp.

You'll have to figure out the record level you are most comfortable with, with your preferred  combo of settings on the preamp and the level knob. I like to keep it so the green lights flash at the peaks of the music; other people live a little more dangerously and like to stay in the green-light zone more consistently.  If the red light flashes...you'll want the limiter on.
 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dabbler on October 04, 2015, 03:45:57 AM
The limiter is fine for fast peaks such as hand claps from people around you.
Longer peaks (especially in the bass region) are not suitable for the limiter.

I've ruined recordings that peaked at -5.7 dBFS with the limiter on an
otherwise known-good setup: DPA 4061 > 9VBB > M10 @ line-in @ 6.5
The 9VBB was: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=80917.0

I'm pretty sure all my early bad experiences with the DPA 4063 > M10 PiP mic-in @ ~2.0 were also from leaving the limiter on.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: justink on October 04, 2015, 08:10:14 AM
Checking in.  just got one yesterday.  although the 32gb card that came with it doesn't seem to be recognized.  any card suggestions?

i don't have the time to backread the entire thread...

what are the best settings for what we do?  what should i turn on/off?

thanks!
flip the card over, willing to bet its in backwards - common user error

nope.  tried that a few times before posting.

edit:  apparently it's tricky to get it in JUST right... i've flipped it a dozen times but it just now finally found the slot and was readable... weird.  32 gb gives 31 hours of record time at 24/48 though!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 04, 2015, 09:34:49 AM
nope.  tried that a few times before posting.
edit:  apparently it's tricky to get it in JUST right... i've flipped it a dozen times but it just now finally found the slot and was readable... weird.  32 gb gives 31 hours of record time at 24/48 though!

Best trick I use, is to insert it exactly the way the card image is shown on the back of the unit... push it in until it is firm, then "click" it in the rest of the way (a 2 step process)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: earmonger on October 04, 2015, 11:40:28 AM
I don't understand what effect the limiter would have if you weren't going into the red zone. To my understanding nothing happens with the limiter below that. Were there sudden downshifts in volume with big bass notes?

Or is it possible the mics were under-powered and distorting on their own from loud bass?

The specs for the 4061 are confusing to me:
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=item&category=128&item=24039#specifications

Which says: For wireless systems: Min. 5 V – max. 50 V through DPA adapter. With DAD6001-BC/DAD6024/DAD4099: 48 V phantom power ±4 V for full performance.

Obviously 9V is above the 5V minimum, but 48V  phantom power--to get the maximum SPL of 144--is a lot higher than 9 V.

 I know from my own mistakes that low power is a great way to get lousy distorted bass. 

Going through mic-in you had both low voltage (PiP is less than 5V) and the possibility of preamp distortion. Very low record-level settings on the PCM-M10 also can be a little wonky. But that would sound different from the limiter suddenly making the volume dip.

I'm no audio pro, so just asking for an explanation.

The limiter is fine for fast peaks such as hand claps from people around you.
Longer peaks (especially in the bass region) are not suitable for the limiter.

I've ruined recordings that peaked at -5.7 dBFS with the limiter on an
otherwise known-good setup: DPA 4061 > 9VBB > M10 @ line-in @ 6.5
The 9VBB was: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=80917.0

I'm pretty sure all my early bad experiences with the DPA 4063 > M10 PiP mic-in @ ~2.0 were also from leaving the limiter on.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: justink on October 04, 2015, 03:51:20 PM
nope.  tried that a few times before posting.
edit:  apparently it's tricky to get it in JUST right... i've flipped it a dozen times but it just now finally found the slot and was readable... weird.  32 gb gives 31 hours of record time at 24/48 though!

Best trick I use, is to insert it exactly the way the card image is shown on the back of the unit... push it in until it is firm, then "click" it in the rest of the way (a 2 step process)

pretty much exactly what finally worked for me.  :p
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dabbler on October 04, 2015, 08:36:13 PM
earmonger: I would guess the limiter starts to kick in around -12dBFS.  Depending on how risk-averse or not I feel, I usually want my peaks to be in the -6 to -10 range).

I've definitely recorded louder shows (at line-in at 3.7 - 6.5) with DPA 4061 with the same 9V BB without bass distortion problems as long as I left the limiter off.

From what I've read on TS, the DPA converters output 5V DC.  Using 48V (or perhaps even 12V) would fry the DPA 4061s based on my reading here.

I took a big chance and pulled Godflesh last night from the front row with the 4063s into M10 PiP mic-in @ level=2.0 @48kHz.  Sounded fine on a hyper-detailed headphone setup (Benchmark DAC1 Pre > Sennheiser HD 800) although there was a 1.6ms window with 35 clipped samples in the left channel, but no more than 6 consecutive clipped ones, so I couldn't hear it, at least.

What I do notice in many of my recordings is distortion in the mids/highs, but that could be the mics picking up distortion in the PA system that my earplugged ears did not notice.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on October 04, 2015, 09:16:55 PM
earmonger: I would guess the limiter starts to kick in around -12dBFS. 

From the M10 manual:

"When the 'LIMITER' is set to 'ON,' the limiter function of the PCM recorder covers the input from the maximum input level to +12 dB. If the input exceeds this limit, sounds may be distorted."

That'd seem to imply it reduces peaks in the 0 to +12 dB range, but nothing below that. Though just dropping everything from there to 0 dB would give you the same clipping as no limiter, so hmm.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: justink on October 04, 2015, 10:33:33 PM
i'm not a fan of limiters on recorders.  i like to play it conservative anyway.  i usually peak at -12 to -6.  six decibels is a huge peak to clip.  and even if you hit zero, it's not the end of the world.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on October 05, 2015, 06:03:16 AM
earmonger: I would guess the limiter starts to kick in around -12dBFS. 

From the M10 manual:

"When the 'LIMITER' is set to 'ON,' the limiter function of the PCM recorder covers the input from the maximum input level to +12 dB. If the input exceeds this limit, sounds may be distorted."

That'd seem to imply it reduces peaks in the 0 to +12 dB range, but nothing below that. Though just dropping everything from there to 0 dB would give you the same clipping as no limiter, so hmm.

In my experience it doesn't kick on until levels go significantly beyond -12 dB; maybe more like -3 dB.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: EWizard on October 05, 2015, 10:25:18 AM
I took a big chance and pulled Godflesh last night from the front row with the 4063s into M10 PiP mic-in @ level=2.0 @48kHz.  Sounded fine on a hyper-detailed headphone setup (Benchmark DAC1 Pre > Sennheiser HD 800) although there was a 1.6ms window with 35 clipped samples in the left channel, but no more than 6 consecutive clipped ones, so I couldn't hear it, at least.

I bet that was a good show!  Godflesh is awesome live!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 05, 2015, 12:16:30 PM
pretty much exactly what finally worked for me.  :p
:clapping:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: groovon on October 06, 2015, 02:14:10 AM
Just grabbed a second M-10 (a refurb) while I still can. Will use it while I try to get my original fixed. (PIP died--any ideas?)

Will be glad to have a backup, in any case.

Damn brilliant little machines  ;D


Dave

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 06, 2015, 09:31:42 AM
Will be glad to have a backup, in any case.

At this price, I have one too... not easy to get a 722 in the door these days
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: morst on October 09, 2015, 01:46:44 PM
I have not seen the limiter light up below -3dB below full-scale. I have run shows where the limiter light popped on, and I didn't have any peaks in the final file over -0.3 dB, maybe even 0.5?

I love the M10 limiter, use it all the time.

earmonger: I would guess the limiter starts to kick in around -12dBFS. 

From the M10 manual:

"When the 'LIMITER' is set to 'ON,' the limiter function of the PCM recorder covers the input from the maximum input level to +12 dB. If the input exceeds this limit, sounds may be distorted."

That'd seem to imply it reduces peaks in the 0 to +12 dB range, but nothing below that. Though just dropping everything from there to 0 dB would give you the same clipping as no limiter, so hmm.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 09, 2015, 02:00:37 PM
From the M10 manual:
"When the 'LIMITER' is set to 'ON,' the limiter function of the PCM recorder covers the input from the maximum input level to +12 dB. If the input exceeds this limit, sounds may be distorted."
That'd seem to imply it reduces peaks in the 0 to +12 dB range, but nothing below that. Though just dropping everything from there to 0 dB would give you the same clipping as no limiter, so hmm.

IMHO, all the more reason not to use it for live music recording
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on October 09, 2015, 05:58:58 PM
^ In and of itself the limiter does not leave anything clipped or distorted so far as I can tell. 

It may help with a rare transient.  If someone really pounds something to way over the usual input level that peak will still be clipped though.  Safety margin perhaps but I'd not rely on it.  It doesn't seem to hurt but may not necessarily be a substantial help. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: paxhell on October 20, 2015, 04:21:08 PM
Hello, I just bought an M10 and have a question
The manual says " A microsSD (FAT16) card smaller than 2 GB and a microSDHC (FAT32) card from 4GB to 16GB are supported"
So I wonder if I can use a 32GB or if it's still limited to 16GB? Anyone have tried a SanDisk MicroSDHC 32GB, Class 4?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bombdiggity on October 20, 2015, 04:26:55 PM
^ I think that's old. 

I regularly use a standard 32GB Sandisk.  Format it in the recorder... 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on October 20, 2015, 05:45:28 PM
^ I think that's old. 

I regularly use a standard 32GB Sandisk.  Format it in the recorder...

Same here - works fine.  16GB may have been the largest microSD available at the time the M10 was released which is why it says that.  Kind of like my old cell phone stated it would only support up to 32GB cards, but I used a 64GB and it worked.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: willndmb on October 20, 2015, 09:14:58 PM
Def will not work with 64gb in the m10
Keep in mind and turn on cross record so if your card fills you still have 4 more gb to go
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on October 21, 2015, 09:10:53 AM
I think the first 32 GB microSDHC came out at almost the same time as the M10, maybe a little later, so Sony probably never tested them; since the recorder is HC compliant, though, it is not a huge surprise that 32 GB cards will work.  The M10 predates microSDXC, so it is also not a surprise that cards larger than 32 GB can cause problems...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on October 31, 2015, 09:32:43 PM
Hi all.I just got  new B&H catalog.The M10 did not make it in it but they still have the M10 online  with a jacked up price of $245 bucks.

I still using my 8gb micro card in the M10 and have no issues with the card which is a Toshiba.I dont need a bigger card at this moment since I dump the the recording  off the micro onto my external drive everytime after  I use it.

I would not take any  chances on stock piling previous recordings as adding new recordings nightly  on those big micro cards in case the card goes belly up and cant be recoverable .I had a regular size SD card that the controller chip inside went bad according to my data recovery person said.. 4 days of Still shots and Video was lost on that card and had to redo the job over again..
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on November 02, 2015, 08:45:14 AM
Hi all.I just got  new B&H catalog.The M10 did not make it in it but they still have the M10 online  with a jacked up price of $245 bucks.

I wonder if that implies a replacement device will be announced at CES?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Fried Chicken Boy on November 02, 2015, 10:29:59 AM
^ I guess the rumor of the M10 being discontinued was never substantiated? 

Would be great to see Sony release an updated recorder but I wouldn't read too much into the M10 not being included in the current print copy of the B&H catalog; that place is huge and there's no way they can include everything in the catalog. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on November 02, 2015, 10:46:46 AM
^ I guess the rumor of the M10 being discontinued was never substantiated? 

Would be great to see Sony release an updated recorder but I wouldn't read too much into the M10 not being included in the current print copy of the B&H catalog; that place is huge and there's no way they can include everything in the catalog.

Agreed.  I just got the new catalog and they've really cut back / condensed a lot of the audio side of things.  And they only have listed one Schoeps product in their print catalog for a while, while in reality they carry or can special order the full line.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on November 02, 2015, 01:24:40 PM
Still showing on here: http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MakersMarc on November 10, 2015, 11:16:06 AM
Wow this is a cool fucking little deck.  >:D

Question....does this thing do auto track splits, and if so, where does everyone set theirs at? Or is it nonadjustable? Are they seamless?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on November 10, 2015, 11:16:57 AM
Seamless, do my fixing in post work
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MakersMarc on November 23, 2015, 08:13:31 PM
I've only run it a few times bit I'm really impressed with the adc. I did a set one out of my nbox into my wmod 661 and set two into the m10. So far can't really hear the difference.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ben Turnbull on November 27, 2015, 03:54:27 AM
Welcome to the wave of the future, bud. A lot of people have lost their lust for a V3 once they've seen/heard what an M10 is capable of.  I don't think there's an auto-track mark feature, but if you want to place marks during recording or in playback you just hit the silver T-Mark button.  Most use CDwave Editor to do this in post.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: earmonger on November 28, 2015, 06:35:59 PM
There is no auto track marking function (if you mean the kind of function that minidisc had that would insert a mark every X minutes).

But the very unobtrusive remote of the PCM-M10 gives you a track mark button. I do most of my track breaks at the show, during applause, and if I miss one or misplace one they can be inserted or removed (and re-inserted) later.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MakersMarc on November 28, 2015, 08:25:01 PM
I will die having never used a remote when taping. Once I hit hold and get levels set no touchy.  ;D
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ben Turnbull on November 29, 2015, 01:56:01 PM
 :clapping:  I like it.  Old School all the way baby.  (I bet you carry a tiny screw driver just for luck.)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on May 24, 2016, 09:56:18 PM
There's been a lot of M10-related posts lately, so I thought I'd bump the "official" discussion thread.  I've been wondering why people keep starting new M10 threads, and maybe it's because they don't know this one exists.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Drewskers on July 11, 2016, 03:33:43 PM
I'm wondering if anyone has tried extending the remote for the M10?

The plug on the remote looks like a standard TRRS plug, so I am thinking a TRRS-TRRS extension cable would work, something like this:

https://goo.gl/pNvGv8
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: LIVEMUSIC752 on July 30, 2016, 12:13:33 AM
okay i had too send my 5 month old M10 away to Sony because it would stop recording.
anyway since Sony Canada has the M10 Discounted and i have though about buying another one,
i was wondering what out of the box ideas you have.
I.E. SD 552 or Mixpre and Tascam DR-40 Since the DR-40 is $129.99 or Zoom 8 if the Pre's are a lot better than Tascam DR-70D, DR-701D.
any other out of box ideas, i don't have a iphone so that is not a option.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on July 30, 2016, 09:26:49 AM
Sony Canada has the M10 Discounted

Where did you find the M10 discounted? The lowest Canadian price I've seen is $299.99 at Henry's.

BTW the Sony Canada site has listed the M10 as "DISCONTINUED".
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: audBall on July 30, 2016, 09:54:19 AM
It's not showing up on Sony's Product page:
https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/

Or has that been the case for a while?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: LIVEMUSIC752 on July 30, 2016, 04:07:40 PM
It's not showing up on Sony's Product page:
https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/

Or has that been the case for a while?
i just noted it recently but maybe been like that for awhile 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on July 30, 2016, 05:50:04 PM

i just noted it recently but maybe been like that for awhile

You said before that Sony Canada has the M10 discounted.

Did you mean "discontinued"?

Darn that spell-check!

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: LIVEMUSIC752 on July 31, 2016, 01:27:48 PM

i just noted it recently but maybe been like that for awhile

You said before that Sony Canada has the M10 discounted.

Did you mean "discontinued"?

Darn that spell-check!
Yes Discountinued
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on August 27, 2016, 10:06:57 PM
If anyone is considering buying an M10, it appears to be now or never.  Most of the usual places no longer have them, and these are the only ones I could find from reputable dealers:

http://www.samash.com/sony-pcm-m10-portable-digital-recorder-spcmm10bx (http://www.samash.com/sony-pcm-m10-portable-digital-recorder-spcmm10bx)
http://www.frontendaudio.com/Sony-PCMM10-B-p/9999-14110.htm (http://www.frontendaudio.com/Sony-PCMM10-B-p/9999-14110.htm)
http://www.adorama.com/sopcmm10rd.html (http://www.adorama.com/sopcmm10rd.html)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on August 28, 2016, 01:53:06 AM
Any european outlets?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ben Turnbull on August 28, 2016, 08:25:06 AM
^^ FWI, that last link is 404
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on August 28, 2016, 08:33:39 AM
^^ FWI, that last link is 404

Thanks for the heads up; I deleted it.  It definitely worked last night, but now their entire site seems to be down.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bobstammers on August 28, 2016, 09:29:28 AM
Any european outlets?

Visual Impact in the UK have stock and are charging £136 inc vat with free shipping to the UK, unsure for other European countries


http://www.visuals.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=PCM-M10CEK (http://www.visuals.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=PCM-M10CEK)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: RobS on August 28, 2016, 12:45:47 PM
Any idea what EK stands for? I googled it, but couldn't find it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: bobstammers on August 28, 2016, 01:23:38 PM
Not sure, but I bought my back up from there about 3 years ago. It has the same model reference and I can see no difference to the one I had shipped over from the States when they first came out.

Although it is no longer available from amazon.co.uk it is still listed and they list PCM-M10CEK as the manufacturers' part number.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PCM-M10-Digital-Voice-Recorder/dp/B0030BZPKQ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-PCM-M10-Digital-Voice-Recorder/dp/B0030BZPKQ)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on August 31, 2016, 11:23:33 AM
Any european outlets?

Visual Impact in the UK have stock and are charging £136 inc vat with free shipping to the UK, unsure for other European countries
Thanks for the link; the deck arrived. The website now appears to have sold out. (!?)
So what is the successor for the M10?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: RobS on August 31, 2016, 02:36:53 PM
I ordered another one, a backup, from Visual Impact. It arrived today. Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Olsson on August 31, 2016, 03:08:43 PM
I received a reply from Sony Nordic when asking for a successor to M10.

Roughly translated from Swedish:
"New audio recording devices were released in March 2016 and they are the newest on the market. Unfortunately I don't know if a successor with precisely those specifications will be released. However, if you have not already done so, check out the later versions of the PCM-M10 which is D-50 but also the D-100."

According to their answer, M20 will not be their next release. ;)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: adrianb on August 31, 2016, 03:14:42 PM
Good look buying a D-50  :lol:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Fried Chicken Boy on August 31, 2016, 03:34:37 PM
"However, if you have not already done so, check out the later versions of the PCM-M10 which is D-50 but also the D-100."

Pointing out the obvious to the rep from Sony Nordic, aside from the D50 also being discontinued, both it and the D100 are considerably larger and more expensive than the M10.  A little disheartening that Sony doesn't have a current successor to the M10 nor does one appear to be in the pipeline. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on August 31, 2016, 05:50:38 PM
I suspect that Sony may no longer see this market segment as a worthwhile investment.  It may depend on how well the D100 sells, which is very expensive given its features.  There may still be enough people buying it though, such that Sony sees no reason to develop a cheaper unit in the line to replace the M10.

An "M20" that is nothing more than a refresh would be fairly boring.  They would need to add real functionality, and make something competitive with recorders such as the new Tascam DR-100mkIII for me to take interest.  That would cost them a huge amount in R&D and production, which is why I don't think it's ever going to happen.

The real question may be why they are discontinuing the M10, when they could just keep pumping them out with no new revision and the associated costs that would bring.  Either it's not selling well anymore, or it may be still selling very well, but they want to drive customers towards the D100 which they are avoiding because of the price.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: oudplayer on August 31, 2016, 11:08:28 PM
Was just at B&H Photo video in NYC hoping to pick up one of the M10s before they disappear forever. No luck (totally out of stock), but the salesperson in the Pro Audio section mentioned that Sony had announced to them that there indeed was to be a M10 successor that was to be smaller and with higher sound quality. No more specifics, and no timeline for its release, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on September 01, 2016, 06:09:42 AM
^ Interesting; thanks!  I wonder if we don't get an announcement pretty soon, as fall is probably a good time for product introductions (so that the "M20" makes it's way on to lots of Christmas lists).  Assuming a new model is in the works, Sony was quite clever about this.  With no known successor to the popular M10 announced, they kind of fueled a run on the remaining M10s...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on September 01, 2016, 06:18:45 AM
Was just at B&H Photo video in NYC hoping to pick up one of the M10s before they disappear forever. No luck (totally out of stock), but the salesperson in the Pro Audio section mentioned that Sony had announced to them that there indeed was to be a M10 successor that was to be smaller and with higher sound quality. No more specifics, and no timeline for its release, unfortunately.

While that statement may sound great, I'd actually be kind of disappointed if it were true.  If it's smaller than the M10, there goes the possibility of P48 inputs, although I figured that wasn't going to happen anyway.  "Higher sound quality" probably means they use the A/D section from the D100 so they can slap their "Hi-Res Audio" marketing badge on it and crow about 192kHz and DSD.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: beatkilla on September 01, 2016, 06:55:33 AM
A smaller m10 suits me just fine.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: adrianb on September 01, 2016, 07:16:21 AM
If a new "M20" was to be exactly the same as the M10 only slightly smaller I would happily upgrade, if it was slightly smaller and played FLAC files I would very happily upgrade.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: 2manyrocks on September 01, 2016, 08:12:00 AM
My first exposure to the m10 was a review discussing the m10 as a journalism tool.  That might be a larger market for a more compact recorder than folks using it for concert recording.

Sony may not want to put xlr inputs on a recorder that would undercut their d100.  Sonys marketing also seems much different to me than tascam in that tascam seems to offer many more overlapping and confusingly similar recorders, mostly all aimed at musicians.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: su6oxone on September 02, 2016, 04:05:05 AM
Only place I could find it online is on ebay, and the only reasonable price (e.g. less than $300) is from "downtown", apparently another camera shop based in NYC.  They have 10 left if anyone wants to try them.  It could be returned stock being sold as new since they don't seal/tape the boxes.  Hope a "M20" comes out someday, the M10 was/is a nearly perfect recorder for tapers that seemed to be nearly universally loved here.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PCM-M10-Portable-Audio-Recorder-Black-Kit-/182233604201?hash=item2a6df82069:g:ee8AAOSwRGlXpkBL (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PCM-M10-Portable-Audio-Recorder-Black-Kit-/182233604201?hash=item2a6df82069:g:ee8AAOSwRGlXpkBL)

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ben Turnbull on September 02, 2016, 07:03:46 PM
'Hate to side  track the M20 talk, but I've got a question about using the M10 as a MP3 player when traveling.
I've got a 16gb card in the slot and have renamed several folders with appropriate titles for the new contents that I drag and drop from my PC file structure to the M10. 

Occasionally, not every case, the files that are copied from PC > M10 will appear in order, but the last track will play first on the M10.  Very frustrating and I don't really know what I may be doing to promote this behavior.  Perhaps it's not a very reliable file structure.

Thanks for any comments
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on September 02, 2016, 10:35:05 PM
I just picked up an extra from Newegg/Adorama — looks like they still have some in stock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4P01ZS0829

I've definitely seen M10s in use by journalists (I'm one); not sure if it really needs to be much smaller to appeal to journalists, and "higher sound quality" is overkill. I'm puzzled as well why they'd discontinue an item that at the very least continues to sell well to a niche market, though there's no accounting for marketing strategies.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: RobS on September 03, 2016, 01:36:46 AM
That looks like the red version from Adorama on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002KGV3C6/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472880917&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=pcm-m10+red&dpPl=1&dpID=51BO-HOo0HL&ref=plSrch
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: adrianb on September 03, 2016, 05:18:17 AM
'Hate to side  track the M20 talk, but I've got a question about using the M10 as a MP3 player when traveling.
I've got a 16gb card in the slot and have renamed several folders with appropriate titles for the new contents that I drag and drop from my PC file structure to the M10. 

Occasionally, not every case, the files that are copied from PC > M10 will appear in order, but the last track will play first on the M10.  Very frustrating and I don't really know what I may be doing to promote this behavior.  Perhaps it's not a very reliable file structure.

Thanks for any comments

I use my M10 as a portable music player, and there is quite a few positive discussions about the audio quality of the device such as this here:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/456327/sony-pcm-m10-as-portable-player

Of course the main disadvantage is that it's a recording device, and not an audio player, and the file structure is arranged to play in order that the file was created. For some people the downside is outweighed by the advantage that you can play WAV files to a high standard, and it's less money than equivalent audio players.

I think the ordering can be solved by the order in which the files are saved onto your SD card.

I have some folders where the tracks play out of order, but it's usually something like tracks 5 to 12 and then 1 to 4. Easily solved by tracking through to start at 1.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ben Turnbull on September 03, 2016, 09:15:00 AM
^ I usually take tracks that I cut straight out of CD wav so the creation order should be as originally cut.  Hummmmm
Thanks
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: vanark on September 03, 2016, 09:25:52 AM
Sometimes, if you click the first file and then shift click the last one, the first one actually gets copies last. Try clicking the last file and then shift clicking the first one to highlight them all. They will probably copy in order. Maybe it is the time they were created on the microSD, not created originally. Just a guess.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Ben Turnbull on September 03, 2016, 09:53:29 AM
^ That sounds like something I might have done. I'll experiment w/that process.

In the mean time I found this on Head-Fi:

Another annoyance is that every folder is sorted by the date and time the file was written to the internal memory or to the flash card - it will not be sorted by folder name.  This is great for making and finding your recordings of various gigs, but not so great when you're trying to use the PCM-M10 as a DAP.  A solution to this problem is to periodically copy all of the files you've accumulated on a given flash card off to a folder on your PC, then use the PCM-M10 to format the flash card (while you're at it - just to refresh its sectors), then when you copy the whole lot of it back to the flash card, it will be displayed in the PCM-M10 in the sequence with which the files were added to the card.  Joy!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on September 03, 2016, 02:43:23 PM
That looks like the red version from Adorama on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002KGV3C6/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472880917&sr=8-3&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=pcm-m10+red&dpPl=1&dpID=51BO-HOo0HL&ref=plSrch

Yep, same one. Shipping was free either way.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: pdastoor on September 21, 2016, 06:10:07 PM
didn't want to start a new thread but is the M10 bigger than the Roland r-05
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: morst on September 24, 2016, 01:12:06 AM
Track naming OK with leading zeroes?

remember,

1
10
2
3...

'Hate to side  track the M20 talk, but I've got a question about using the M10 as a MP3 player when traveling.
I've got a 16gb card in the slot and have renamed several folders with appropriate titles for the new contents that I drag and drop from my PC file structure to the M10. 

Occasionally, not every case, the files that are copied from PC > M10 will appear in order, but the last track will play first on the M10.  Very frustrating and I don't really know what I may be doing to promote this behavior.  Perhaps it's not a very reliable file structure.

Thanks for any comments
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Bootleg Detroit on October 05, 2016, 10:49:07 PM
I'm running my newly acquired DPA 4061's --> 9V BB --->  M10 for the first time -- for a couple of upcoming John Prine shows -- and wondering, LINE IN or MIC IN?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on October 06, 2016, 12:28:51 AM
I'm running my newly acquired DPA 4061's --> 9V BB --->  M10 for the first time -- for a couple of upcoming John Prine shows -- and wondering, LINE IN or MIC IN?  Thanks!

I would use LINE IN.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: mepaca on October 06, 2016, 04:17:06 AM
I'm running my newly acquired DPA 4061's --> 9V BB --->  M10 for the first time -- for a couple of upcoming John Prine shows -- and wondering, LINE IN or MIC IN?  Thanks!
  I would use mic in. A battery box is not a preamplifier only a power supply. John Prine should not be overwhelmingly loud.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on October 06, 2016, 09:12:34 AM
I'm running my newly acquired DPA 4061's --> 9V BB --->  M10 for the first time -- for a couple of upcoming John Prine shows -- and wondering, LINE IN or MIC IN?  Thanks!
  I would use mic in. A battery box is not a preamplifier only a power supply. John Prine should not be overwhelmingly loud.

If there's an opener, play with the gain settings for both and see which one sits in a more comfortable range. You'll probably be fine with either LINE IN with the gain cranked way up or MIC IN with the gain set lower. (I've never used 4061s, so can't speak to how sensitive they are.)

And, of course, be sure to record in 24-bit so that if you end up with a quieter recording, you have plenty of bits to play with when enloudening it later.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: ilduclo on October 06, 2016, 09:56:15 AM
I'm running my newly acquired DPA 4061's --> 9V BB --->  M10 for the first time -- for a couple of upcoming John Prine shows -- and wondering, LINE IN or MIC IN?  Thanks!
  I would use mic in. A battery box is not a preamplifier only a power supply. John Prine should not be overwhelmingly loud.

I agree,  but use the LOW setting on the mic attenuation
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: mepaca on October 06, 2016, 06:25:44 PM
yes, always use the low setting for mic input. The high setting is way too hot.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Bootleg Detroit on October 06, 2016, 08:41:53 PM
Thanks for all the input, I'm going to take advantage of the opening act and do a little experimenting, I will post my results!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: yug du nord on October 06, 2016, 11:36:30 PM
M10's preamps are pretty good....  IMO, go battery box > MIC input. 
Set your peak lights for -12...  set levels to try to keep em peaking in the green (as close as you can).  Even with 24 bit, do your best not to waste any bits.
From people smarter than me, the M10 is marketed as 24 bit....  but results are closer to 16 bits. 
Start with levels set at 4 or 5 on the dial...  and adjust accordingly.
Fantastic little deck!!!

........I think I met you once years ago at Toyota Park Phish maybe??  You told me that you used to run B&K's maybe??
Make great tapes man!!!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: morst on October 07, 2016, 04:10:38 AM
Wanna check your levels with nobody else around? Try hollering a few feet away from your setup... you know, the way folks will at a John Prine show?! That oughtta be louder than the music, unless you set your mics next to the main PA stacks.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Bootleg Detroit on October 07, 2016, 02:14:11 PM
Wanna check your levels with nobody else around? Try hollering a few feet away from your setup... you know, the way folks will at a John Prine show?! That oughtta be louder than the music, unless you set your mics next to the main PA stacks.
Funny, but true! Good idea!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Bootleg Detroit on October 07, 2016, 02:19:45 PM
M10's preamps are pretty good....  IMO, go battery box > MIC input. 
Set your peak lights for -12...  set levels to try to keep em peaking in the green (as close as you can).  Even with 24 bit, do your best not to waste any bits.
From people smarter than me, the M10 is marketed as 24 bit....  but results are closer to 16 bits. 
Start with levels set at 4 or 5 on the dial...  and adjust accordingly.
Fantastic little deck!!!

........I think I met you once years ago at Toyota Park Phish maybe??  You told me that you used to run B&K's maybe??
Make great tapes man!!!

Yup, that was me. Good memory. Used to run the B&K 4011's back in the day, LOVED those mics, made some great pulls with 'em!
I've been out of the game for quite some time and not up to speed with current technology, so thanks for the suggestions!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: spyder9 on October 11, 2016, 02:25:03 PM
Our beloved recorder has been discontinued by Sony.    :alert:

B&H shows it as so.  Sony has removed from its product page. 

An end of an era:  one of the greatest portable recorders of all time.

:bawling:

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1194582-REG/sony_sony_pcm_m10_portable_audio.html

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on October 13, 2016, 09:18:06 AM
one of the greatest portable recorders of all time.
That is why I got an extra one despite my idol being dead now.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: jerzysobski on October 13, 2016, 06:53:41 PM
Has sony replaced this model with a newer one? If so what did they replace it with?


Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on October 13, 2016, 10:01:40 PM
Has sony replaced this model with a newer one? If so what did they replace it with?

Not really.  The only small music-focused recorder they make right now is the PCM-D100 which is far more expensive at ~$800, which IMO is far too high a price for what it does.

They still make their voice recorder line, but those don't have the recording capabilities of the M10 and similar devices.

The new Tascam DR-100 mkIII is what I'd buy if I needed something like the M10 right now.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: terabyte23 on October 14, 2016, 06:57:25 PM
The power switch on my M10 is sticking.  You know how you pull it down to power on the unit, then let it snap back to the middle position?  Mine just stays stuck in the down position.  Anyone else experience this problem, and have a fix for it?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Perry on October 14, 2016, 10:06:13 PM
There's likely gunk behind the slider (pocket lint, stale beer, etc.). Try blasting it with electrical contact cleaner. Just don't use the stuff with added lubricants. :cheers:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: PaulCayard on October 16, 2016, 11:02:51 AM
The new Tascam DR-100 mkIII is what I'd buy if I needed something like the M10 right now.
But new Tascam DR-100 mkIII has 2 XLR input instead of a 3.5mm plug like M10  :'(
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on October 16, 2016, 11:23:38 AM
The new Tascam DR-100 mkIII is what I'd buy if I needed something like the M10 right now.
But new Tascam DR-100 mkIII has 2 XLR input instead of a 3.5mm plug like M10  :'(

The Tascam DR-100 mkIII also has a 3.5mm input as well as the 2 XLR inputs. The 3.5mm EXT IN jack on the top of the recorder will supply plug-in power just like the M10.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: PaulCayard on October 16, 2016, 02:22:03 PM
The Tascam DR-100 mkIII also has a 3.5mm input as well as the 2 XLR inputs. The 3.5mm EXT IN jack on the top of the recorder will supply plug-in power just like the M10.
I was wrong, I'm very sorry  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[

Thanks for your clarification  :)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: aaronji on October 16, 2016, 06:27:26 PM
The DR-100 mkIII is a lot larger than the M10, so it might not be a good replacement option for some. I don't have any personal experience, but the R-05 seems to be pretty popular and I know several people who think highly of the small Olympus recorders, so maybe those would be good substitutes. And maybe Sony will introduce a replacement. I think the M10 sold pretty well, so you would think they wouldn't completely abandon that market...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Fried Chicken Boy on October 18, 2016, 07:27:07 PM
... the [Roland] R-05 seems to be pretty popular and I know several people who think highly of the small Olympus recorders, so maybe those would be good substitutes.

The R-05 gets my vote for heir alternative to the M10 throne.  Doesn't have the astounding battery life of the Sony but you should be good for about a day of festival taping.  The R-05 might actually be slightly smaller overall and the specs are just about the same as the M10.  In nearly 5 years, mine hasn't given me so much as a hiccup of trouble.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: EvilEye on October 27, 2016, 02:49:51 PM
just bought a backup.  brand new red one from Adorama, $245.00, free shipping.  not many left, I suspect.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on October 28, 2016, 11:27:09 AM
I have had 2 for a while, back in the DAT days I had the need to have 2 "just in case", and I continue to have the backup for times when I have to wear the hat, as I have a SD for stand shows....
I hope they bring something new to CES in January
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: DSatz on November 02, 2016, 10:11:58 PM
Odd experience today: My spouse/partner has a PCM-M10 which she uses for playback of pre-recorded piano accompaniments for her singing. It has worked perfectly any number of times. But today at her voice lesson when she turned it on, the settings for playback speed and "key" (= pitch) had both shifted downwards, as I confirmed this evening when I looked through the menu settings.

Thing is, until tonight when I showed her, she didn't even know how to get in to the menus or to operate them, and no one else had had access to the recorder. Those settings just "changed themselves," it seems.

Has anyone else here had this happen?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: willndmb on November 02, 2016, 10:22:18 PM
Odd experience today: My spouse/partner has a PCM-M10 which she uses for playback of pre-recorded piano accompaniments for her singing. It has worked perfectly any number of times. But today at her voice lesson when she turned it on, the settings for playback speed and "key" (= pitch) had both shifted downwards, as I confirmed this evening when I looked through the menu settings.

Thing is, until tonight when I showed her, she didn't even know how to get in to the menus or to operate them, and no one else had had access to the recorder. Those settings just "changed themselves," it seems.

Has anyone else here had this happen?
speed control switch on the back got moved, almost guarantee it.
Happened to me once in the car listen on the way home from a show, slide off the seat, hit the floor and moved without me knowing it was even there, had my heart skip a beat thinking I broke something lol

https://d37vpt3xizf75m.cloudfront.net/api/file/hnEHkmSEO8VXSR3syAwi Page 54 has details
It's switch "28", top left as you look at the front of m10
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: yug du nord on November 02, 2016, 10:43:53 PM
^And I don't think that the switch on the back affects the recording..  only playback. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: DSatz on November 03, 2016, 07:24:43 AM
Thanks for the reply and the link to the instruction manual. Yes, the DPC switch must have been turned on by accident. But that's understandable as a result of normal handling--and I found that problem easily enough, since a rectangle was displayed on the screen that showed the setting being applied (-15%).

That's the least mysterious part of this incident; what I don't understand is how the menu settings could have gotten set the way they were. The DPC menu item has a factory default of -30%, not -15% (of course I immediately set it to 0 so that the DPC switch setting now has no audible effect). And the "Key Control" (= pitch) was set to lower the pitch a half-step, and doesn't depend on any switch. It certainly wasn't set that way before yesterday, though neither of us accessed the menu in between.

So I hope that these settings won't slip again, if that's what they did.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: andante on November 03, 2016, 12:51:21 PM
Here's another quirk of the PCMM10 that I found by accident: I don't recommend anyone try is, but you can get signal/recording levels by plugging microphones into the headphone jack.

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: vanark on November 03, 2016, 02:01:42 PM
I suspect the signal you are getting in that situation is from the internal mics.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: andante on November 03, 2016, 03:06:06 PM
You know you could be right!

But for some reason I still wonder if it might have been the microphones.  I was recording test tones with some church ca-11's about 1cm away from a speaker to test for a balance problem.  I got the headphone and microphone input plugs mixed up and noticed my error when I saw a dramatic difference in recording levels.  I can't remember if the levels were higher or lower going into the headphone jack as the microphone problem I was trying to record involved a dramatic volume difference and I was switching around different microphones and caps.

I was just happy that I didn't screw up the recorder!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dallman on November 04, 2016, 10:38:08 AM
You know you could be right!

But for some reason I still wonder if it might have been the microphones.  I was recording test tones with some church ca-11's about 1cm away from a speaker to test for a balance problem.  I got the headphone and microphone input plugs mixed up and noticed my error when I saw a dramatic difference in recording levels.  I can't remember if the levels were higher or lower going into the headphone jack as the microphone problem I was trying to record involved a dramatic volume difference and I was switching around different microphones and caps.

I was just happy that I didn't screw up the recorder!  :facepalm:

If you have mics plugged into the headphone jack, that means there are no mics plugged into the mic or line input, so it will then default to the internal mics. It is not and would not be recording from mics plugged into the headphone jack, but it will output through those mics.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MikeyLNG on November 07, 2016, 04:20:11 PM
Hello all, newbie here so forgive the basic question. I finally have a set of mics coming (CA-11 cards) that I can test my M10 with. I don't have a battery box yet, so I will be plugging them directly into the device for now. Am I right in thinking I should use the mic in port with plug in power enabled? Or should it be the line in port instead? I read that the mic in port should be used more if it's a quieter/acoustic type set (I typically go to quite loud indie/rock type shows), so it's thrown me off a little.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on November 07, 2016, 04:31:01 PM
Hello all, newbie here so forgive the basic question. I finally have a set of mics coming (CA-11 cards) that I can test my M10 with. I don't have a battery box yet, so I will be plugging them directly into the device for now. Am I right in thinking I should use the mic in port with plug in power enabled? Or should it be the line in port instead? I read that the mic in port should be used more if it's a quieter/acoustic type set (I typically go to quite loud indie/rock type shows), so it's thrown me off a little.

Correct: If you don't have a battery box, you need to go Mic In with plug-in power, or the mics will just sit there unpowered and not do anything.

Once you do get a battery box, you can leave PIP off and choose between the more sensitive mic port (for quieter shows) and the less sensitive line in port (for louder ones).

If you mostly go to loud indie/rock type shows, I would guess that you're going to be less than thrilled with the performance of those mics until you get a battery box to provide sufficient voltage.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: popskull on December 08, 2016, 11:07:31 AM
Anyone experience line out/headphone jack failure?

My M-10 will not send a signal through a cable when inserted nor turn off the built in speaker.

I took the back cover off and examined the jack, it seems secured to the board, though looks rather accessible since it is underneath another board
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: Scooter123 on January 08, 2017, 06:34:08 PM
I was tempted to start another Sony M-10 thread, because having four or five at the same time makes so much more sense.  But, its been awhile since I logged on here, and actually was double shocked to learn two things: 

(1) That Sony has discontinued the World's best pocket recorder.  I have two but then again, I simply don't understand why a company would discontinue such a great little unit.

(2) Putting aside the corporate decision to discontinue it, not having a replacement for this market seems silly.  Will I have to get a third unit?  Jeez. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: udovdh on January 09, 2017, 09:31:39 AM
I got me 3rd unit...  ;D
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on January 09, 2017, 09:36:43 AM
sounds like i need a 3rd too... and/or hope that all of my local friends with the deck will be my 3rd level backup lol
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on January 09, 2017, 08:42:08 PM
I was tempted to start another Sony M-10 thread, because having four or five at the same time makes so much more sense.

 :lol:

(1) That Sony has discontinued the World's best pocket recorder.  I have two but then again, I simply don't understand why a company would discontinue such a great little unit.

(2) Putting aside the corporate decision to discontinue it, not having a replacement for this market seems silly.  Will I have to get a third unit?  Jeez.

Agreed on both points, but maybe it wasn't selling well anymore on a large scale, despite its huge popularity here.  There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50.  Compared to the M10, it's also a whole lot more money for only adding a new DAC capable of DSD and 192kHz recording.  It's hard to imagine that unit is flying off the shelves though, considering its high price for rather limited functionality compared to competition from other brands.

By every appearance, Sony is abandoning this market segment.  In contrast, Tascam is saturating the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on January 10, 2017, 07:57:52 AM
There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50.

I think it's more likely the replacement for their flagship PCM-D1.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: jbell on January 10, 2017, 08:27:41 AM
There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50.

I think it's more likely the replacement for their flagship PCM-D1.

The D100 is the D50 replacement!! 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on January 10, 2017, 03:45:05 PM
There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50.

I think it's more likely the replacement for their flagship PCM-D1.

The D100 is the D50 replacement!!

I don't agree.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: audBall on January 10, 2017, 05:50:32 PM
The brochure on Sony's website says, "...successor to Sony's PCM-D50", but I'm not sure the distinction is all that important.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on January 10, 2017, 05:55:49 PM
There's the PCM-D100 but that appears to be the replacement for the PCM-D50.

I think it's more likely the replacement for their flagship PCM-D1.

The D100 is the D50 replacement!!

I don't agree.

Visual comparison backs it up.  Also, several comparison pix between D50 and D100 here (http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6c9a89b00101m2fh.html).  Not that it matters; we want them to make an M10 successor.

(http://cdn.head-fi.org/0/0b/500x1000px-LL-0ba044fc_1544470bm07xhx7w9j8sa8.jpeg)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: jbell on January 10, 2017, 06:04:18 PM
I've owned both and the D100 is an upgraded D50!  The differences are independent channel gain, takes SDHC cards, records DSD and PCM 24/192. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: adrianb on January 11, 2017, 07:59:40 AM
I use my D100 for recording nature and soundscapes, and the main difference for me over the D50 (which I also own) is the microphones. Much improved, and more similar to the D1, so I can see where dogmusic is coming from.

The D100 might be more similar in looks to the D50, and the brochure might say it's the successor to the D50 but by then the D1 had long since been discontinued. If I owned the D50 and the D1, it's the latter I would have sold when I bought the D100.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: spyder9 on January 11, 2017, 11:41:31 AM
I've owned all three. 

D50 was awfully shrilly to my ears and I sold it quickly. 

M10 has been a rock solid performer over the last 10 years.  I made some brilliant recordings with it.  It will never leave my bag. 

D100, however, steps it up in sound, but with a big cost.  Very transparent, clean sounding.  No exaggerated low freqs.  Quieter than a whisper.  It's hard for me to let go.  I sold it once and I hated myself for it.  Now I have one again.

D100 might offer a lot frills, but I buy these things for the sound.  D100 doesn't suck in that category...   :shrug:

Case in point:

 https://archive.org/details/travelinmccourys2016-09-08.d100.spyder9.flac16
     
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: gmm6797 on January 11, 2017, 02:00:20 PM
My 2 cents: no mics needed, all externally connected.... but what do I know
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: adrianb on January 11, 2017, 02:03:05 PM
https://archive.org/details/travelinmccourys2016-09-08.d100.spyder9.flac16

Wow, just wow.

Not my cup of tea, musically, but can't stop listening.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: dogmusic on January 12, 2017, 12:52:55 PM
I use my D100 for recording nature and soundscapes, and the main difference for me over the D50 (which I also own) is the microphones. Much improved, and more similar to the D1, so I can see where dogmusic is coming from.

The D100 might be more similar in looks to the D50, and the brochure might say it's the successor to the D50 but by then the D1 had long since been discontinued. If I owned the D50 and the D1, it's the latter I would have sold when I bought the D100.

I agree wholeheartedly.

From the review of the D100 in Sound on Sound, comparing it to the D50:

"The designers ... added custom-designed electret mics that can handle higher SPLs (128dB) and have 50 percent larger capsules, matching those of their high-end D1 model."

There's a better visual comparison in the photo below. Once you deduct the D1's lucious VU meters, there's not much difference in size between the three units. But you can easily see how much larger the D100's (and the D1's) mics are relative to the D50.

The D100 is a very much improved recorder over the D50 (which I own and love) in more ways than just "independent channel gain, takes SDHC cards, records DSD and PCM 24/192". The same SOS review says Sony "isolated the power supply to each circuit section, for example, and selected components specifically to reduce jitter and noise, resulting in far lower harmonic distortion figures." They also considerably upgraded the preamps and AD/DA converters, gave it 32GB internal memory, 5V plug-in-power, larger screen and a unique limiter.



Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: 2manyrocks on January 18, 2017, 07:23:22 PM
Concerning the question why Sony discontinued the m10 despite its stellar reputation here, I happened to notice a press conference photo today.  The reporters were using their phones to record the conference.  So that could be why Sony discontinued   what we regard as a terrific recorder.

And it doesn't give me hope that we will see a replacement.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: perks on January 27, 2017, 04:59:13 PM
Was just able to buy a new one for $249 online @ Professional Sound Services. Hope they still have them in stock and it is able to ship.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: wppcproductions on January 27, 2017, 05:12:38 PM
Concerning the question why Sony discontinued the m10 despite its stellar reputation here, I happened to notice a press conference photo today.  The reporters were using their phones to record the conference.  So that could be why Sony discontinued   what we regard as a terrific recorder.

And it doesn't give me hope that we will see a replacement.

Again the Iphone is taking over everything.I'm glad that I still use my simple Tracfone.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: spyder9 on January 31, 2017, 10:07:31 PM
Was just able to buy a new one for $249 online @ Professional Sound Services. Hope they still have them in stock and it is able to ship.

White & Red are still available.  Thanks perks.  :)

Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MakersMarc on January 31, 2017, 10:10:51 PM
They don't actually have any in stock.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: tapeheadtoo on February 01, 2017, 09:12:09 AM
Just checking in on this thread after a long time.  Glad I got my fourth unit last year while they were still easily found. 
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: GDfan on February 01, 2017, 12:32:54 PM
They don't actually have any in stock.

I ordered one yesterday and got a confirmation that my order was processed. My card was charged so I hope they have some.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: GDfan on February 01, 2017, 12:33:43 PM
Was just able to buy a new one for $249 online @ Professional Sound Services. Hope they still have them in stock and it is able to ship.

White & Red are still available.  Thanks perks.  :)
yes, thank you for the info! I ordered a white yesterday.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: pohaku on February 01, 2017, 01:39:28 PM
Pro Sound's site now states that the item is no longer available.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there.  We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit.  B&H confirmed my order,  charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: perks on February 01, 2017, 02:16:05 PM
I just got a refund toady and I was the 1st person to post that they were listed as available on the website I was h0lding out hope that they had at least 1 since I got charged but its clear now it was an error on their website.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: justink on February 11, 2017, 05:27:37 PM
I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MakersMarc on February 11, 2017, 09:12:39 PM
Pro Sound's site now states that the item is no longer available.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there.  We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit.  B&H confirmed my order,  charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on February 11, 2017, 11:00:44 PM
I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.

I'm not familiar with the V3; does it have variable output gain?  That would make the level matching you're trying to do a bit tricky, unless you know exactly what the output level of the V3 is.  Maybe that's why your level is a bit lower, if your V3 is putting out a slightly hotter signal.  Here's some good info: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471)

Apologies if you know this already, but there's really no such thing as "unity gain" between these two pieces of equipment.  I just think of it as good gain staging. 
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165688.msg2069471#msg2069471)
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: daspyknows on February 12, 2017, 02:18:40 PM
Pro Sound's site now states that the item is no longer available.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there.  We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit.  B&H confirmed my order,  charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad.  Never again.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: voltronic on February 12, 2017, 08:21:02 PM
Really unfortunate to hear about the situation with Pro Sound and the not-really-there M10.  I've experienced this with other, smaller vendors before who have an item for sale on their website and the order goes through, only to be contacted later to say that the item never was in stock.  That was with small accessories though; not something like this.

So at this point, I think it's safe to say that any vendor claiming to have M10s for sale should be met with extreme skepticism.  We don't know when Sony actually stopped manufacturing them and how many unsold units (if any) are sitting in warehouses.  You'd think that electronic stocking systems would take care of alerting potential buyers of an item being out of stock though.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: morst on February 12, 2017, 09:15:26 PM
I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.
Is the output of the M10 set to LINE?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: GDfan on February 12, 2017, 11:17:03 PM
Pro Sound's site now states that the item is no longer available.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there.  We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit.  B&H confirmed my order,  charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad.  Never again.

If this is true, I will have to dispute the charge with my CC company
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: old and in the way on February 13, 2017, 01:11:24 PM
it took awhile but pro sound refunded my paypal and they got it back to me . A used m10 came up at guitar center for 199.00 . i snagged it and its like new. Pro sound has a good reputation
and im sure they dont want a bad rap .i'm planning on getting a sonosax sxr4+ soon and the  price they quoted is really nice.  they screwed up but then s--t happens.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: daspyknows on February 13, 2017, 01:25:57 PM
Pro Sound's site now states that the item is no longer available.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there.  We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit.  B&H confirmed my order,  charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad.  Never again.

If this is true, I will have to dispute the charge with my CC company

When I did that they refunded my money despite the fact that the big screen TV they had mis-shipped had been received back to their inventory for 2 weeks.  The TV was sent by some ground freight company rather than Fedex Ground and this place could only deliver M-F 9 to 5 and would not provide an approximate time or I could arrange for pickup M-F 9 to 5.  I had waited for them once by working at home and they told me they had a truck problem and couldn't deliver but could reschedule.  I told them to keep their TV at that point and by them prices had dropped so I actually paid less 6 weeks later. 

After the poor service by B&H I decided they would never get my business again and seeing the debacle with the M-10's further justifies by decision.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: justink on February 15, 2017, 02:00:16 PM
I'm not sure how scientific it is or if it makes a difference when I get to a show. But I tried to tune my m10 to be in unity with my V3 analog out. I ran a YouTube video of a few different frequencies giving a continuous tone. Then I manipulated the gain in the V3 and m10 until I could dial them in together. I've read that "4" is unity gain for most people's m10 but what I came up with is a shade under "3". That seems to be dead on with my V3. I guess running other gear in front of the m10 could have something to do with other people's experience but at least I'm fairly confident this pairing is nails on.
Is the output of the M10 set to LINE?

i didn't have anything going out of the M10.  i went V3 > M10 Line In
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: beatkilla on February 15, 2017, 04:09:47 PM
Pro Sound's site now states that the item is no longer available.

Conflicting responses from the site don't clarify whether the M10 was ever recently available there.  We will have to see whether anyone who received a confirmation actually gets a unit.  B&H confirmed my order,  charged my card and then sent a "sorry, item not available" message later.


I thought the problem was with PROSOUND not B & H ?

Still trying to get my refund from these assholes, I've called four times.

My last experience with them was bad.  Never again.

If this is true, I will have to dispute the charge with my CC company

When I did that they refunded my money despite the fact that the big screen TV they had mis-shipped had been received back to their inventory for 2 weeks.  The TV was sent by some ground freight company rather than Fedex Ground and this place could only deliver M-F 9 to 5 and would not provide an approximate time or I could arrange for pickup M-F 9 to 5.  I had waited for them once by working at home and they told me they had a truck problem and couldn't deliver but could reschedule.  I told them to keep their TV at that point and by them prices had dropped so I actually paid less 6 weeks later. 

After the poor service by B&H I decided they would never get my business again and seeing the debacle with the M-10's further justifies by decision.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: rigpimp on March 05, 2017, 02:39:43 PM
Good God this thing is becoming more of a nuisance than anything.  I keep trying to give it more chances to no avail.

I have been using the M-10 as my  >:D recorder and every time I go out with it I have different problems.  Mostly what I presumed to be user error but now am unsure.

Last night I went out to record a hip hop gig.  I have popped in what I thought was a fresh set of Eneloops AA and about half way through a 5 hour night I notice that the batteries are sinking fast.  There were A LOT of DJ's in between short hip hop acts so I shut the recorder down a couple of times and just skipped the DJ crap.

Now this morning I go onto my SD card and only see 2 files but one of them is the main act so I am thinking this is OK since that is why I went in the 1st place.  I plug the USB cable in and see the rest of the early files on the internal memory. 

When powering the unit down why would it revert from internal to SD card?  I figured it might be the other way around but I had all setting triple checked before heading out for the evening and it was SET TO RUN ON THE MEMORY CARD.

Second issue was that even though I had levels peaking around -6 I have a squared off wave form.  I have yet to look at the limiter setting but is it possible that this turned on via one of my reboots?  This is fu%^ing crazy.  I just need a small bit bucket dammit.   :angry3:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: morst on March 07, 2017, 11:19:47 PM
I run the limiter on my m10 approximately 100% of the time and squared off waves at -6 dB does not sound like anything I recognize.

I just powered mine down and up a couple times, once set for memory card and once set for internal, and power cycling did not affect the memory setting on my main unit (the one where the display isn't cracked!) Note that the machine will idle for weeks without draining the batteries - I typically only power cycle when changing batteries. I also don't think I've formatted my SD card for 4-5 years, I just delete files and empty the trash on my mac.

Sounds like yours might be messed up?  :-[

PS the zipper on my Sony case that I sent in the UPC code for JUST lost a tooth just now.  :'(
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: nulldogmas on March 07, 2017, 11:29:33 PM
Seconding everything Morst said. Is it possible the squared-off waveform is clipping at some other point in the chain, not within the M-10?
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: MakersMarc on March 08, 2017, 10:15:02 AM
Concerning the battery drain, is the m10 set to "nimh"? Long shot, I know. Weird stuff happening to yours, my experience matches others. No issues whatsoever.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: lsd2525 on March 08, 2017, 10:58:02 AM
Good God this thing is becoming more of a nuisance than anything.  I keep trying to give it more chances to no avail.

I have been using the M-10 as my  >:D recorder and every time I go out with it I have different problems.  Mostly what I presumed to be user error but now am unsure.

Last night I went out to record a hip hop gig.  I have popped in what I thought was a fresh set of Eneloops AA and about half way through a 5 hour night I notice that the batteries are sinking fast.  There were A LOT of DJ's in between short hip hop acts so I shut the recorder down a couple of times and just skipped the DJ crap.

Now this morning I go onto my SD card and only see 2 files but one of them is the main act so I am thinking this is OK since that is why I went in the 1st place.  I plug the USB cable in and see the rest of the early files on the internal memory. 

When powering the unit down why would it revert from internal to SD card?  I figured it might be the other way around but I had all setting triple checked before heading out for the evening and it was SET TO RUN ON THE MEMORY CARD.

Second issue was that even though I had levels peaking around -6 I have a squared off wave form.  I have yet to look at the limiter setting but is it possible that this turned on via one of my reboots?  This is fu%^ing crazy.  I just need a small bit bucket dammit.   :angry3:

If you want to get rid of that flaky POS I'll make the ultimate sacrifice and take it off your hands....... :smash: :smash:
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: rigpimp on March 08, 2017, 04:23:54 PM
I think that I may have just found the culprit.  It is brickwalling caused by the Tinybox.  I am pretty sure mine was HIGH and it was a really loud rap concert.  I bet I overloaded it.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176892.msg2181045#msg2181045
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: morst on March 08, 2017, 05:26:13 PM
it was a really loud rap concert.
It's also possible that the concert sound itself was drastically limited and squared off! But you'd see analog fuzzies on your recording from those square waves distorting the speakers and traveling through the air...
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: rockphantom on March 15, 2017, 10:46:08 AM
I would like to verify that the Mic Sens (ATT) high/low setting has no effect if you go Line In with a pre-amp on the M10.
Is this correct?

My main rig is: Church Audio CA-11 Cardioid Mics - > Church Audio Ugly 2 Preamp (Gain setting +15db) -> Line In -> Sony PCM-M10

Thank You!
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: willndmb on March 15, 2017, 03:42:31 PM
I would like to verify that the Mic Sens (ATT) high/low setting has no effect if you go Line In with a pre-amp on the M10.
Is this correct?

My main rig is: Church Audio CA-11 Cardioid Mics - > Church Audio Ugly 2 Preamp (Gain setting +15db) -> Line In -> Sony PCM-M10

Thank You!
correct, just for the internals
Set the m10 side dial at 4 to start off with
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: eman on March 15, 2017, 05:25:32 PM
I think that I may have just found the culprit.  It is brickwalling caused by the Tinybox.  I am pretty sure mine was HIGH and it was a really loud rap concert.  I bet I overloaded it.
I have found that I need to run on LOW for loud, not even the loudest, concerts. I run at 24 bit to get some headroom, and crank the M10 almost all the way up generally. Only the very loudest of shows will go over on Tinybox LOW + M10 cranked for me. I had realized that I was getting distortion on too many shows using the MED setting, let alone the HIGH setting. I wish I could use MED more often but you usually don't have much of a clue how much bass will be in the mix before the music starts.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: rigpimp on March 16, 2017, 09:52:44 AM
I think that I may have just found the culprit.  It is brickwalling caused by the Tinybox.  I am pretty sure mine was HIGH and it was a really loud rap concert.  I bet I overloaded it.
I have found that I need to run on LOW for loud, not even the loudest, concerts. I run at 24 bit to get some headroom, and crank the M10 almost all the way up generally. Only the very loudest of shows will go over on Tinybox LOW + M10 cranked for me. I had realized that I was getting distortion on too many shows using the MED setting, let alone the HIGH setting. I wish I could use MED more often but you usually don't have much of a clue how much bass will be in the mix before the music starts.

I'm pretty sure this was the problem now.  I just popped open a CCM4>Tinybox>M10 recording I made at Charlotte Phish from back in 2012 and the end of the show went over too and I think that I had it set at MED.  I normally record pretty quiet acoustic stuff which is why I likely had it set higher for Twista.
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: willndmb on March 18, 2017, 02:23:34 PM
I have never had to run on high with the tb.
Med sometimes but low if I want plenty of room
Title: Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 8)
Post by: mtahir on April 14, 2017, 08:23:49 PM
I was wondering if the remote port on the Sony PCM-M10 can be used as a lanc port? The PCM-M10 comes with a remote that has a 2.5mm/TRRS connector. Lanc cables tend to be 2.5mm/TRS types from what I can tell. Does anyone know if it's possible?

Thanks