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Gear / Technical Help => Cables => Topic started by: waltmon on November 17, 2014, 03:41:04 PM

Title: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: waltmon on November 17, 2014, 03:41:04 PM
I see a number of adaptors out there.  I had a PCMIA firewire card that work great, but my new lappy has no card port (other than SD etc)  Are there any of these adaptors better than any other?  I see lots of firewire to USB cables on ebay...but have read some negative comments in regards to transfer rate etc.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on November 18, 2014, 04:52:58 PM
I have never heard of this - this would not be an adapter but a converter as you would need logic to retime/reframe/etc firewire into usb


Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on November 18, 2014, 05:04:18 PM
Your best bet is to either use a cf card or get a external hdd that has both usb and FireWire - u xfer to the hdd from the 744 via firewire, correctly disconnect the firewire drive from the 744, then
Connect the drive to your PC via usb

FireWire is dead unfortunately
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on November 18, 2014, 05:08:17 PM
All the ones I see on ebay are cables or adapters used to simply change the pinout/physical plug from one to the other

FireWire and USB can run at different voltages so I would avoid this route as a simple adapter could damage your PC and/or the 744
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: dnsacks on November 18, 2014, 05:41:30 PM
seems you'd be a lot better off either a) recording to CF as your primary media or b) copying from the internal drive to CF as your primary form of x-fer -- see: http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/11164-744t-firewire-connection-issue/

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: EarlyMorningRain on November 19, 2014, 10:58:36 AM
I do not own a 744, nor have I seen one, but I take it the 744 does not have a USB port on it?
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: hi and lo on November 19, 2014, 10:04:21 PM
H2O is right per usual. It's not a good idea to try a cheap FireWire to USB converter and I've never heard of a good result. There just not compatible formats.

Better options are to copy from the internal to CF or external firewire drive or install a FireWire card in your computer. If you've got a PCI-E slot, you can easily add a genuine firewire 400/800 card for $20-30 bucks. Older Macbooks will also have a firewire 400 port, but I would recommend buying one just to do transfer.

My view on the 744T internal harddrive is that it's nothing more than a backup and I often prefer to simply disable it. I will always transfer my files directly from the CF card would never want to transfer from the internal unless I absolutely had to. Firewire 400 is incredibly slow and ties up your device and computer. Copying files from the internal drive to the CF is also painfully slow, coupled with the fact that you're still going have to pull the data off the CF card again. Simply put, getting the data off the internal hdd is slow no matter what option you choose and for me, I don't necessarily need the redundancy and am confident the CF card will always work right. knock on wood.

dsnacks also points out a good thread about connection issues. I've heard of things getting fried when hot-swapped. Firewire is ancient technology and was always destined to be the first past-its-time feature on these units.

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: vegeta_ban on November 20, 2014, 01:21:03 AM
you could get an enclosure for the hard drive in your sd and connect it as an external drive. I do this with my taping laptop to transfer quickly to my desktop computer. That is if you're comfortable taking the drive out.

something like this.

http://www.newegg.com/Hard-Drive-Enclosures/SubCategory/ID-92 (http://www.newegg.com/Hard-Drive-Enclosures/SubCategory/ID-92)

If your hard drive is the older IDE/PATA type you could use something like the following.

http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-2-5-Inch-External-Enclosure-SBT-EKU25/dp/B0006BGV2Y (http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-2-5-Inch-External-Enclosure-SBT-EKU25/dp/B0006BGV2Y)
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on November 20, 2014, 01:14:06 PM
Here is one someone in Germany made about 10 years ago:

https://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~heha/bastelecke/Rund%20um%20den%20PC/u2f/index.en.htm (https://www-user.tu-chemnitz.de/~heha/bastelecke/Rund%20um%20den%20PC/u2f/index.en.htm)

To give an idea of the complexity is required to connect a Firewire device to a USB port.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on November 20, 2014, 01:27:20 PM
The only mass produced one I can find is here and may or maynot work (it was designed for xfering video with a specialized application in Windows XP):
http://www.pixela.co.jp/en/products/tv_capture/pix_uvcd_u1w/ (http://www.pixela.co.jp/en/products/tv_capture/pix_uvcd_u1w/)

http://www.space-shops.fr/en/pixuvcdu1w-convertisseur-dv-1394-en-usb-xml-349_263-2068.html (http://www.space-shops.fr/en/pixuvcdu1w-convertisseur-dv-1394-en-usb-xml-349_263-2068.html)


Seems to sell for about 100 Euros or about $125 + shipping
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: twatts (that "Pants" thing is so lame...) on November 20, 2014, 02:34:58 PM
Since there is little difference b/w the P2 and the SD722 in this respect, ie use of CF Card as standard media, I thought I would point out this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132900.msg1741944#msg1741944

I've been using the CF>SD card adapter with great success for several years now...  That said, a buddy got one for his Tascam SS-R1 and it did NOT work... 

Terry
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: waltmon on December 09, 2014, 03:44:54 PM
Are the CF > USB card readers pretty reliable?  I transferred my Frisco Phish shows from 2013 with no noticeable loss or errors.  These readers are pretty inexpensive...Are any better than the others?   My new 744T has a 256 GB SSD drive...I'm liking the idea of mastering to the HD and copying to the CF.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on December 09, 2014, 05:24:15 PM
Yes, but like everything that is made in China on the lower end of the food chain there are some bad apples out there - read the reviews on Amazon before you buy

Keep in mind that connecting a cf based recorder to a PC to transfer your recordings via usb is pretty much the same as using a usb cf reader
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: danlynch on December 09, 2014, 05:25:48 PM
I've used a very reliable card reader to transfer every recording I've made with the 744 from CF to my laptop with zero errors.

Also, came up against this firewire issue when I had a user error with the CF card and only had archived the show on the HDD.  Copying from the HDD to the CF is really very easy and a lot safer than using firewire convertors and the such.

Transferring files from HDD to CF:
http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/file-transfer/file-copying/

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: F.O.Bean on December 09, 2014, 08:45:26 PM
I do not own a 744, nor have I seen one, but I take it the 744 does not have a USB port on it?

Nope. Just a Firewire port
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on December 10, 2014, 12:50:49 PM
The HD-P2 also only has a firewire port

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: microburst on December 16, 2014, 05:05:34 PM
Every recording I've ever made with the 744T has been recorded both on the internal HDD and CF card.  I've always taken the CF card and plugged it into a cheap (but seemingly reliable) CF reader and then dumped the files to my laptop via USB.  I typically keep the raw files on the 744T HDD until I've copied the raw wavs to external HDDs and mastered/tracked the files.

Are some of you suggesting that a CF or other card reader can be unreliable and introduce errors?   I've never noticed anything when doing so and any issues (e.g., static, channel drops, etc) I've noticed with files coming from the CF card were also on the files on the HDD clearly an indication that the CF and/or reader were not the issue.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on December 17, 2014, 07:37:43 PM
Some cheaper CF card readers can have issues reading cards, such as VERY slow or compatibility issues - most will work fine though
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on June 30, 2017, 05:16:26 PM
I would like to know if anyone had purchased and used an adaptive firewire cable (744T > USB for PC) or one of those inexpensive adapters I've seen on ebay.  I spoke to someone at Sound Devices, and they didn't know about them, but said it couldn't hurt to try.  Transferring from HD > CF and then to the computer is a pain in the ass that I'd like to avoid.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: morst on June 30, 2017, 09:03:32 PM
I would like to know if anyone had purchased and used an adaptive firewire cable (744T > USB for PC) or one of those inexpensive adapters I've seen on ebay.  I spoke to someone at Sound Devices, and they didn't know about them, but said it couldn't hurt to try.  Transferring from HD > CF and then to the computer is a pain in the ass that I'd like to avoid.
it's not going to work.
 :facepalm:
Check the reviews on this item:
https://www.amazon.com/IEEE-1394-FireWire-Female-Adapter/dp/B007DNHQPE
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51NCSu3KVJL._SL1000_.jpg)
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on July 01, 2017, 09:03:46 AM
Well then, that sums that up!  Soooooo, what's a cost efficient alternative?
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: hi and lo on July 01, 2017, 07:12:43 PM
Transferring from HD > CF and then to the computer is a pain in the ass that I'd like to avoid.

I'm all for efficiency, but I think you're overestimating things. 99% of the time you will be recording to the Internal HDD + CF slot. Transferring is as simple as using a CF card reader. Exactly twice I have had to copy from HD > CF and it takes five minutes of tinkering to figure out the process... less time than you will ever spend trying to get Firewire working successfully.

Firewire is a dead format and google is littered with 7xx + firewire nightmares. No joke, just look for yourself. It has been known to fry equipment when hot swapped and is plagued with other problems.

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on July 01, 2017, 07:19:17 PM
You make a good, and convincing, argument.  The CF transfer isn't an issue for me, I actually have a slot in my computer.  It's when I need to transfer from the HD that I was concerned about.  I suppose it really isn't that big of a deal to go from the HD > CF > computer if need be.  I'd rather not fry anything that I can't afford to replace or repair  :really_sucks:
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: hi and lo on July 01, 2017, 07:29:16 PM
You make a good, and convincing, argument.  The CF transfer isn't an issue for me, I actually have a slot in my computer.  It's when I need to transfer from the HD that I was concerned about.  I suppose it really isn't that big of a deal to go from the HD > CF > computer if need be.  I'd rather not fry anything that I can't afford to replace or repair  :really_sucks:

Totally.

Here's the tech note for how to copy specific files. In a nutshell, you set a "Copy Flag" for the tracks you want and once mastered it's pretty speedy. Under the File Copy menu, there's also the option to copy "Last 24 Hours" or "Copy all Tracks," both of which are easier if you don't want to flag individual tracks.

https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/copying-individual-files-between-drives-with-7-series-recorders

Again... I've used this exactly twice in the 3 years I've owned this deck. I usually just google this help doc and work it out on-the-fly as it's not something I do often enough to remember.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: morst on July 02, 2017, 09:00:51 PM
Transferring from HD > CF and then to the computer is a pain in the ass that I'd like to avoid.
(snip)
Firewire is a dead format and google is littered with 7xx + firewire nightmares. No joke, just look for yourself. It has been known to fry equipment when hot swapped and is plagued with other problems.

If you do use Firewire, it's supposed to be hot swappable, but I will tell you that it's not generally stable until you reboot. Maybe even reboot twice if it's a configuration change.  :bawling:
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: noahbickart on July 02, 2017, 09:17:42 PM
At least on OSX, I've always found FireWire to be excellent, and I remember being an early adopter of the format with a CD-R Drive I bought along with my Titanium Powerbook g4 in the summer of 2001. In the Past 16 years it's been *much* more stable than USB.

With the introduction of USB-C, it seems that even Apple is no longer supporting FW, though in theory you can use a Thunderbolt 3 compliant USB-C > Thunderbolt 2 adaptor in conjunction with a Thunderbolt 2> FW 800 adaptor and a 800>400 cable.

I haven't tried it myself, not owning a 7 series recorder, but I'd be very surprised if the above didn't work perfectly on a modern Macintosh. I bet transfer speeds would be similar to USB-2.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: voltronic on July 03, 2017, 07:58:25 AM
I've been using a Focusrite FireWire audio interface on my PCs for years now, and it's extremely solid, but it did require one adaptation: I found through some research (and experience) that the FW chips built into motherboards are not always the best, and that you get much better performance using a separate card, specifically one with a Texas Instruments chipset (https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815124107). 

The small additional cost made all of the difference.  You get an entire system bus dedicated to your audio interface, as opposed to being on USB which is being shared with dozens of other things.

The big negative of FW is that it really is not hot-swappable.  The instructions I got from Focusrite were to completely power down the system when plugging / unplugging the interface.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: 2manyrocks on July 03, 2017, 10:36:43 AM
The least expensive option is to use a USB compact flash reader.  IMO, also the safest since there is no FW cable to come unplugged and potentially fry something. 

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: noahbickart on July 03, 2017, 10:44:26 PM
The least expensive option is to use a USB compact flash reader.  IMO, also the safest since there is no FW cable to come unplugged and potentially fry something.

That's fine for transferring data from a CF Card. But OP also uses the HD drive in his recorder. SD made the 7-series to function as HD drives over firewire, which was the best way to transfer files from the HD to a computer.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: 2manyrocks on July 04, 2017, 10:16:15 AM
The problem is today's laptops don't have fw ports or card slots for FW cards like they did 10 years ago.  Its USB and a SD card slot if you're lucky. USB uses a different protocol than FW so its not easily adaptable, either from what I've read. 

FW cards themselves can also be problematic as voltronic mentioned.  My old laptops fw port didn't work with my focusrite.  Had to buy a card with a Texas instruments chipset. 

Card readers are pretty handy if you're dealing with sd, micro SD, and cf cards which many of us are. 
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on July 04, 2017, 12:17:35 PM
I use a PC (desktop) that has a CF slot built in.  I have no problems transferring files recorded to the CF card quickly.  My intent was when utilizing the internal HD on the 744T, to be able to transfer the files from there directly without a headache.  I have abandoned that idea after all these negative comments about FW.  No biggie, and I appreciate all the heads ups!!!
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: 2manyrocks on July 05, 2017, 10:54:18 AM
I'm just speculating here that the HD was included years ago because CF cards were expensive and folks recording audio for movies needed a lot of file space?  Personally, I'd rather have seen dual CF cards with the option to either use one as primary and the other as a backup or use one as primary and then transfer to the second if the first filled up.  That's what I see on some Nikon cameras.  I like CF for its durability and size because it's not as easy to lose or damage. 

I also have a CF to SD card adapter which has worked fine for me.  One thing you have to watch is some of those adapters are thicker than others, and the thick ones may not fit a SD 7 series slot. 

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on July 06, 2017, 07:29:42 AM
I've noticed, with regards to the CF/SD adapters, that they list an OS in their description.  I currently have Windows 7, which does not seem to be supported by any of them.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: H₂O on July 06, 2017, 11:37:34 AM
I've noticed, with regards to the CF/SD adapters, that they list an OS in their description.  I currently have Windows 7, which does not seem to be supported by any of them.

As I noted above you could alternatively get a USB/Firewire external hdd and use that as a go between.

Here is a 500gb one for $75
https://www.amazon.com/LaCie-Rugged-Firewire-Portable-LAC9000448/dp/B005COZ9D2
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on July 06, 2017, 12:47:12 PM
Certainly a good option, but I'm strapped for money now, so I'll make due until I can afford a better option. Thank you.
Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: 2manyrocks on July 07, 2017, 07:18:41 PM
This CF to SD adapter works in my SD 702 and is listed as compatible with windows 7.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/816112-REG/Digieffects_SDXCF_Extreme_SD_HC_XC_to_CF.html  $12.95 plus about $3.50 shipping unless you place a $49 order to qualify for free shipping.

I think CF card readers can be had for less money.

Title: Re: Firewire to USB adaptor cable to connect 744T to PC
Post by: nak700s on July 07, 2017, 11:53:20 PM
 :coolguy: :coolguy: :coolguy: