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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: tomy01 on April 25, 2016, 07:41:10 AM

Title: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: tomy01 on April 25, 2016, 07:41:10 AM
With today's environment it is getting harder to conceal recording equipment to "tape" your favorite concerts. I am from the old school - I have been taping for many years and my go to tape recorder is the Sony WM-D6C. This has been my workhorse and has never let me down.

With the recent Paris concert hall attacks many areas and stadiums have now installed metal detectors and or wand detectors. With its 1980's technology my good old Sony WM-D6C will more than likely never get through the new security measures due to the amount of metal parts!
Hell I took my girlfriend to a Joel Olsteen "Night of Hope" concert in Orlando last week and they were using metal detectors and wand detectors.   Has anyone been able to get “gear” though?

My question what is a good current make/model/type of recorder that I should purchase that could be looked at as something else or even have a minimum of metal parts. Also, what would be a good external mic to add.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: daspyknows on April 25, 2016, 10:52:26 AM
Yes, just need to be more creative.  Better off going to newer technology for many reasons.  Look at the various sd card recorders.  Plenty of info on here.  Recordings still being made at the toughest venues.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on April 25, 2016, 11:03:48 AM
People here aren't likely going to share their secrets in public.

I can say it's more difficult to record secretly than in years past, but I can still do it. As daspyknows said...get creative. Have a plan in advance.

As for gear, you can see what I run below. Like I said...I still run.

Also some good info in this thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176450.0
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: Jhurlbs81 on April 25, 2016, 11:48:37 AM
find a recorded that doubles as a mp3 player.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: bombdiggity on April 25, 2016, 01:00:42 PM
my go to tape recorder is the Sony WM-D6C.

I've taken mine through metal detectors though that was years ago.  That said the last time I used mine is 2010.  First I got a Roland R-05 then when that failed a Sony PCM-M10.  I don't think there's much metal in those and they can pretty much be passed off as a music player if something does set one off. 
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: rocksuitcase on April 25, 2016, 02:17:50 PM
Reply # 30 in this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=38687.0;all

Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: Boedi-taper on April 25, 2016, 04:15:02 PM
I used the trusty WM-d6c for years also(Stealth and non=stealth shows) until finally switching to dat in 2000 and in 2010 the new era of taping(Portable hard drives,in my case an Edirol R-09 HR). I would highly suggest buying an Edirol or something similar for stealth jobs.They generally fit in the palm of your hand and make great recordings for the most part if your mics are good(I generally don't recommend using the internal mic on the device).They are fairly inexpensive also.

As far as taping in todays environment,to some degree it might depend on the venue or the type/genre of the act you want to tape/stealth.I live in a medium size city in upstate New York where they recently reopened a concert venue in our city after the original venue closed in 2008. I have seen/taped 2 shows there so far(The Outlaws/Kansas),to where there was no metal detectors/patdowns.Yet on their website,they have posted messages for certain shows that they will have patdowns on everyone(Mostly either the rave type shows or hardcore metal shows or even some country acts). And for the most part they explain the reason for the patdowns is because "A few individuals sneaking in alcohol or drugs,etc"). So your best bet is to scope out the venue entrances ahead of time without obviously making yourself look too suspicious. Most shows/bands I see now are taper friendly bands so I don't have to worry about this type scenario(With the exception of the 2 acts I previously mentioned.)
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: Ben Turnbull on April 25, 2016, 08:35:35 PM
First rule of Fight Club... Don't talk about Fight Club.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: rhinowing on April 25, 2016, 09:29:48 PM
second rule of fight club, take it to PM
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: acidjack on April 28, 2016, 06:17:31 PM
Depends what you record. Other than the very largest venues and bands, most security don't care at all about recording, because virtually everyone has a video recorder in their pocket and they can't really stop it.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: badronald on April 29, 2016, 01:56:06 AM
A few weeks back I left my M10 in my jacket  and it set off the walkthru detector,  they pulled me aside to wand me and I just pulled it out and held it in my hand while they wanded me and it was no problem.

 I probably should have just put it in the basket with my phone and keys - they don't give a crap if its not a gun or knife.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: lsd2525 on April 29, 2016, 11:20:10 AM
I need a all -in-one Swiss army gun/knife/recording device :laugh:
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: pohaku on April 29, 2016, 06:13:52 PM
You can always just plug a set of earbuds into your M10 and it looks even more like a dedicated MP3 player.  As the onboard microphones are flush with the body, they don't stand out.   It actually doesn't even say "recorder" on it except on the back in relatively small letters that would hard to read in typically bad venue lighting.  I use mine for work as well (recording board and committee meetings) so it isn't unusual that I have it in my coat pocket.  Hiding in plain sight often works well. ;D
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: daspyknows on April 30, 2016, 11:59:57 AM
The M10 is not the challenge, with lithium batteries it isnt likely to set off the metal detector.  Its the mics and pre-amp that are metal.  For me if all I could get in was the dr-2d I would hang it up.  the return on investment (effort and cost) just isn't there.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: tim in jersey on May 01, 2016, 02:33:44 AM
I consider myself lucky. I'm in the unique position where the "big" bands I openly tape are pretty good about informing the venue. And the 007 work I do is at venues that haven't a clue about taping.

As for the rest, I've established enough relationships where I have access to SBD patches and can pretty much place mics where I want to.

That being said, I could probably get my  >:D rig in to a Tool show or somesuch, but I just have no desire to see anything of the like.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: MakersMarc on May 02, 2016, 12:51:54 PM
So few open taping bands come to Tucson that it was either quit or pickup a  >:D setup. Even for open bands, it's gotten hard. The venue that used to let me out on the floor with even a 12 foot stand makes tapers now go under an overhang. The other nice venue disallows taping no matter the artists wishes. We used to regularly get jam bands, but turnout was so poor that they quit coming for the most part. Which is fine.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: tomy01 on May 26, 2016, 12:39:06 PM
I just contacted the Camping World Stadium in Orlando (formerly the Citrus Bowl) for the upcoming Gun n Roses concert in July and they told me that they now have instituted a "clear-bag" rule.  This means that no one is allowed in the stadium  with the normal back pack, camera bag and even ladies purses the bag must be on the line of a Zip Top bag with ALL items fully exposed!

WOW - any suggestions how any recorders, mics, battery boxes can be undetected?
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: daspyknows on May 26, 2016, 07:47:52 PM
I just contacted the Camping World Stadium in Orlando (formerly the Citrus Bowl) for the upcoming Gun n Roses concert in July and they told me that they now have instituted a "clear-bag" rule.  This means that no one is allowed in the stadium  with the normal back pack, camera bag and even ladies purses the bag must be on the line of a Zip Top bag with ALL items fully exposed!

WOW - any suggestions how any recorders, mics, battery boxes can be undetected?

Better to take it private, but it can me done.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: guitard on May 29, 2016, 08:48:20 AM
I just contacted the Camping World Stadium in Orlando (formerly the Citrus Bowl) for the upcoming Gun n Roses concert in July and they told me that they now have instituted a "clear-bag" rule.  This means that no one is allowed in the stadium  with the normal back pack, camera bag and even ladies purses the bag must be on the line of a Zip Top bag with ALL items fully exposed!

WOW - any suggestions how any recorders, mics, battery boxes can be undetected?

As long as your clothes aren't made out of see through plastic - I think you'll be OK!
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: daspyknows on May 29, 2016, 12:59:22 PM
I had a pleasant surprise yesterday.  A festival with no search.  The rules are no gear, food or drinks since they want to sell that stuff inside.  No way to eat/drink unless I bring my own.  In past years it was as hard to get that in as gear.  Yesterday they forgot the searchers so they scanned tix and we walked down wondering about the search until we were on the field.  Forgot how nice no search was.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: edtyre on May 29, 2016, 10:09:12 PM
I just contacted the Camping World Stadium in Orlando (formerly the Citrus Bowl) for the upcoming Gun n Roses concert in July and they told me that they now have instituted a "clear-bag" rule.  This means that no one is allowed in the stadium  with the normal back pack, camera bag and even ladies purses the bag must be on the line of a Zip Top bag with ALL items fully exposed!

WOW - any suggestions how any recorders, mics, battery boxes can be undetected?

Keep in mind that for The Rolling Stones last June, they said they were going to have extra security, metal detectors and NO bags allowed.
Of course there was nothing at ALL. Not saying they won't have stuff for G n R, but it costs a lot of money for that extra security and some one has to pay.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: earmonger on June 05, 2016, 02:40:26 AM
They don't want weapons. They don't care about point-and-shoot cameras.  Does your recorder look innocuous like the Sony PCM-M10? Can you plug your mics into your cell phone so they look like earbuds? Be creative.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: gewwang on June 05, 2016, 09:27:36 PM
For larger arenas or stadiums, it isn't inconceivable to bring a big ass pair of binoculars. You could probably fit quite a bit of gear in something like this.

(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images1000x1000/steiner_613_unix_description_deluxe_binocular_1027262.jpg)
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: ideal77dlr on June 12, 2016, 09:34:06 AM
Just recorded my first show of the year (big 'no taping' artist), obviously the first I've taped post-Paris attack so I was expecting tighter security. - Walked into (major) venue wired up with mics and with my M10 and pre-amp in my back pocket. No checks.

I do use an RFID insulated bag (which cost quite a bit) which might help with detector etc...checks, I don't know.


Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: gewwang on June 12, 2016, 10:52:03 AM
The next incident that will lead to some fears about venue security.

Police: 50 feared dead after Florida nightclub terror attack


http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-nightclub-shooting/index.html)

and the other murder of the 'Voice' singer Christina Grimmie in Orlando was more relevant as the murderer did bring his gun into the show without any security check.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/11/entertainment/orlando-christina-grimmie-shot/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/11/entertainment/orlando-christina-grimmie-shot/index.html)

It's unclear how the gunman got a gun into the venue or whether attendees were checked for weapons.
"We don't know if he was just a crazy fan that followed her on Twitter or on social media," Miglio said. "We really don't know ... it's undetermined at this point."
Security measures are in place at The Plaza Live, police say, but there are no metal detectors and people are not patted down.
"As far as security, The Plaza does have security guards who wear polo shirts. They are unarmed," Mina said. "They do check bags and purses as people enter."
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: tomy01 on June 13, 2016, 09:39:19 AM
IDEAL77 - congrats on your first gig of the year.  Did you have to go through any metal detectors or wands?  What is the model and make of the "bag" you used?  Because after yesterday's events in Orlando - ALL concert and sporting events will probably start using metal detectors in the next several weeks - will probably be a rider in the performers contract?
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: tapeheadtoo on June 13, 2016, 11:24:13 AM
<< Because after yesterday's events in Orlando - ALL concert and sporting events will probably start using metal detectors in the next several weeks >>

I highly doubt that.  Detectors (both wands and walk throughs) and extra security personnel cost $$$.  It won't happen in the short term.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: LEDZEPZOSO on June 13, 2016, 03:00:35 PM

I highly doubt that.  Detectors (both wands and walk throughs) and extra security personnel cost $$$.  It won't happen in the short term.

I think more venues are going to use metal detectors, In my market 10 years ago MGM, House of Blues and Caesars Palace (ONLY FOR Celine Dion's show). Now almost all major venue except the Hard Rock in the strip area have either wands or walk through with Caesars using it for all shows. The Palms started using hand wands last month.

I talked to fried before this weekend and wonder in the increase in metal detector might be due to insurance policy discounts. That or with Vegas being such a tourist market the last thing they would want is a incident at a venue.   
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: tapeheadtoo on June 13, 2016, 03:21:26 PM
As far as I know none of the AC casinos use them.  They certainly have the cash to make it happen; we'll see.  As far as other mid-sized venues go I believe any transition will be slow. 



I highly doubt that.  Detectors (both wands and walk throughs) and extra security personnel cost $$$.  It won't happen in the short term.

I think more venues are going to use metal detectors, In my market 10 years ago MGM, House of Blues and Caesars Palace (ONLY FOR Celine Dion's show). Now almost all major venue except the Hard Rock in the strip area have either wands or walk through with Caesars using it for all shows. The Palms started using hand wands last month.

I talked to fried before this weekend and wonder in the increase in metal detector might be due to insurance policy discounts. That or with Vegas being such a tourist market the last thing they would want is a incident at a venue.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: jagraham on June 13, 2016, 05:44:03 PM
Metal detectors at all small venues just isn't going to happen... People say this every time there's an incident, and have since 9/11, and probably before that. It seems like a logical next step until you look at the $$ and other logistics, extra security personnel, longer lines, etc. Despite today's frequent public shootings, it's still statistically pretty unlikely for this to happen.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: kubacheck on June 13, 2016, 07:17:08 PM
though there may be an increase in patdowns and such.... though I wonder, has anyone ever found a gun in a patdown at a music venue??.... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be as low-key  as finding a camera or something and just having the security guy tell you you'll have to take it back to the car....
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on June 13, 2016, 08:56:55 PM
though there may be an increase in patdowns and such.... though I wonder, has anyone ever found a gun in a patdown at a music venue??.... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be as low-key  as finding a camera or something and just having the security guy tell you you'll have to take it back to the car....

Saw Springsteen a few months ago with my bro and his wife. His wife and I went through the same line and breezed through...but my bro was hung up in the line next to us. Turned out the dude in front of him had a knife and he was pissed he wasn't allowed in with it. Some people are stupid. Don't think there were any malicious intent, but who the fuck thinks they're going to be allowed to bring a fucking knife into a venue with metal detectors?
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: kubacheck on June 13, 2016, 09:08:38 PM
though there may be an increase in patdowns and such.... though I wonder, has anyone ever found a gun in a patdown at a music venue??.... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be as low-key  as finding a camera or something and just having the security guy tell you you'll have to take it back to the car....

Saw Springsteen a few months ago with my bro and his wife. His wife and I went through the same line and breezed through...but my bro was hung up in the line next to us. Turned out the dude in front of him had a knife and he was pissed he wasn't allowed in with it. Some people are stupid. Don't think there were any malicious intent, but who the fuck thinks they're going to be allowed to bring a fucking knife into a venue with metal detectors?

funnily enough and kinda off-topic, but I was flying home from Nashville last weekend (with my gear) and the TSA guy manning the X-ray machine called some others over while I was waiting for my bags to come through the machine... thought for a minute they were pondering my gear, I've been detained with it before... then they pulled a bag out and asked whose it was?? it wasn't mine, but a woman behind me said it was hers.... I happened to get a look at the image on the screen and there was a BIG honking knife clearly visible in the suitcase.... she was mortified, but all the TSA guys said was that she'd have to check the bag....
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: LEDZEPZOSO on June 13, 2016, 10:22:27 PM
though there may be an increase in patdowns and such.... though I wonder, has anyone ever found a gun in a patdown at a music venue??.... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be as low-key  as finding a camera or something and just having the security guy tell you you'll have to take it back to the car....

Talked to security years ago at the HOB. At a Willie Nelson show they said the hand wands picked up 7 guns. These people thought nothing of bring a gun into the venue. With security at the MGM talking to security they said they would find a gun about every other show a a pocket knife every show.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: achalsey on June 14, 2016, 09:56:31 AM
I can understand the knife issue.  I carry a pocket knife on me these days.  Not for protection, but just for utilitarian purposes (its surprising how often it comes in handy).  Its really easy to forget its there sometimes.  Usually remember to leave it at home, but have forgotten at times and had to stash it in my shoe.  Obviously not everyone brings one by mistake, but its easy to overlook if its just always on you.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: guitard on June 15, 2016, 09:37:32 AM
though there may be an increase in patdowns and such.... though I wonder, has anyone ever found a gun in a patdown at a music venue??.... I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be as low-key  as finding a camera or something and just having the security guy tell you you'll have to take it back to the car....

Saw Springsteen a few months ago with my bro and his wife. His wife and I went through the same line and breezed through...but my bro was hung up in the line next to us. Turned out the dude in front of him had a knife and he was pissed he wasn't allowed in with it. Some people are stupid. Don't think there were any malicious intent, but who the fuck thinks they're going to be allowed to bring a fucking knife into a venue with metal detectors?

funnily enough and kinda off-topic, but I was flying home from Nashville last weekend (with my gear) and the TSA guy manning the X-ray machine called some others over while I was waiting for my bags to come through the machine... thought for a minute they were pondering my gear, I've been detained with it before... then they pulled a bag out and asked whose it was?? it wasn't mine, but a woman behind me said it was hers.... I happened to get a look at the image on the screen and there was a BIG honking knife clearly visible in the suitcase.... she was mortified, but all the TSA guys said was that she'd have to check the bag....

Right up to the words "BIG honking" I thought this was going somewhere else when I first read it...

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-J6UDyy93NtE/UD-frvfhE8I/AAAAAAAAIGE/prr_TDYII3A/s1600/dildo-luggage.jpg)
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: bombdiggity on June 16, 2016, 01:50:47 PM
I had an interesting experience along these lines at a certain venue this week.  It's actually (still) a working place of worship that also has concerts.  Things have definitely changed in the recent environment so they had armed guards at all the doors.  The doors were locked and they had to let you in (ticket in hand).  Any bags were fully searched.  So I had the fun of taking my standard rig out of my backpack piece by piece and spread over a table to be checked.  It was all electronic equipment so passed so I guess not a strict no gear situation (though not open taping either).  I guess we need to be ready for more of this sort of thing.   
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: gewwang on June 16, 2016, 07:01:38 PM
The uptown amphitheater in Charlotte never wanded before in my experience, but they did use them tonight for a death cab for cutie show I am at.

I don't know if this is new due to the pulse incident because I haven't been at this venue since last fall.
Title: Re: Taping in Today's Environment!
Post by: lsd2525 on July 22, 2016, 11:13:36 AM
The uptown amphitheater in Charlotte never wanded before in my experience, but they did use them tonight for a death cab for cutie show I am at.

I don't know if this is new due to the pulse incident because I haven't been at this venue since last fall.

I got wanded last week at Uptown for Steve Miller. And a few weeks ago at PNC Pavillion for Steely Dan. I think it's new this year, at least at the Charlotte sheds. But you can bring a freezer baggie full of food in........