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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: texasmfp on April 25, 2017, 01:30:54 PM

Title: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: texasmfp on April 25, 2017, 01:30:54 PM
Skip a preamp box or recorder and use this on your DPA lavs and capsules.  You are already carrying a cell phone.

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/microphones/dvice?utm_source=DPA+Complete&utm_campaign=5dd745ece7-WW%3A+d%3Avice+launch_25-April-2017_non-broadcast&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a141748c6e-5dd745ece7-317082101&mc_cid=5dd745ece7&mc_eid=c0a171749f
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on April 25, 2017, 02:11:14 PM
Interesting!

How much will it cost?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on April 25, 2017, 02:22:13 PM
Interesting!

How much will it cost?

Since it says DPA on it, it won't be cheap.

That being said...it looks pretty interesting. I think it will be pretty nice for shows with metal detectors. Maybe I'll get back on Team DPA with this thing.

Looks like Apple only. No Android that I could see.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 25, 2017, 05:05:06 PM
Very cool!  This is a game changer.

Four channel version please..
..actually a six channel version is the thing of my dreams, but isn't likely.  Yet I can imagine them making a four channel version.

I don't care for the radially oriented inputs at all, which is simply terrible for cable management.  It would be much better if they were parallel with the USB port..  and arranged in two sets of three!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: voltronic on April 27, 2017, 06:04:48 AM
Interesting!

How much will it cost?

$650 (http://www.dpamicrophones.com/microphones/dvice/mma-a-digital-audio-interface).

The built-in DAC is certainly a big value add, but that's really quite steep for what it is, IMO.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: MakersMarc on April 27, 2017, 12:18:37 PM
The weird radial inouts not great for  >:D
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 27, 2017, 02:08:15 PM
A single locking mini-xlr or binder input would be much better.. and will represent a considerable improvement in format on the forthcoming 4/6 channel version.  ;)  Since we're redesigning this for them, I'd like to see an on-board battery to increase run-time and reduce draw from the phone, with menu settings for power management with options like: draw from both sources; draw from internal battery first then switch to phone's power; phone-power only (so as not to burn phone-power charging a dead d:VICE battery); etc.

Curious how power-on/off, gain, filter and other settings work.  No obvious physical controls on the unit, so everything must be controllable through the app. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on April 28, 2017, 12:18:18 PM
I think this is pretty awesome. If the battery life is as good as DPA says, it will be really great. I love how it can run both the miniature mics and the full size capsules (with the MMP-G cables). Form factor is a little weird, but not a deal breaker for me, as it will be a super compact set-up. I will almost certainly give one of these a try...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 28, 2017, 01:10:05 PM
It's value is enabling a very compact, clean, direct-to-phone rig that fits in a pocket.  The disappointment is that the input format design doesn't provide robust input connector and cable protection - making for unnecessary strikes against compactness and pocket-ability.

I'd buy if DPA produces one that can do 4 or more channels, at which point it would need a single multi-pin mic input to achieve reasonable cable management.  Also would prefer it to work with Android devices.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: 108Ω on April 30, 2017, 09:51:10 AM
Team Early Adopter now forming
I like simple and small

Some of my best recordings came from AT943ES / XLR mod.  >> FR-2

Will this polarize the AT943ES set properly?

Not having a 'droid app sux0rs, because mounting 128GB card is cake on all the new Samsung devices.

$650 to power the AT set, amplify as transparent or slightly warm the signal, and bucket to 128GB of phone storage would be all that I ever wanted from "taping", short of holding a CD in the air and having the show dynamically imprint itself in the dye.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on May 01, 2017, 10:11:14 AM
Does the AT943ES function correctly powered with a 5 or 6V supply in 2-wire config?  If so I'd imagine they'd work, as I suspect that's the mic supply voltage this device provides. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: ArchivalAudio on May 02, 2017, 01:16:46 AM
Interesting... marking thread. Might need to join team dpa, someday sooner then I was thinking...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: MBHOTAPER on May 05, 2017, 05:24:23 PM
I think this is pretty awesome. If the battery life is as good as DPA says, it will be really great. I love how it can run both the miniature mics and the full size capsules (with the MMP-G cables). Form factor is a little weird, but not a deal breaker for me, as it will be a super compact set-up. I will almost certainly give one of these a try...
Wouldn't full size capsules require phantom power thus a battery box in front of the DPA d:vice? I'm trying to limit the number of items and size for a stealth rig so this seems questionable to me.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on May 05, 2017, 05:55:07 PM
I suspect the DPA "active" adapter cable thing with the capsule mount at one end and the microdot at the other contains voltage converter circuitry which steps up from 5V to whatever bias voltage the full size capsule needs to operate.. probably not to full specification as if using the DPA modular amplifier bodies, but "good enough for taper work" given the compact stealthiness trade-off.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: MBHOTAPER on May 05, 2017, 06:29:36 PM
I suspect the DPA "active" adapter cable thing with the capsule mount at one end and the microdot at the other contains voltage converter circuitry which steps up from 5V to whatever bias voltage the full size capsule needs to operate.. probably not to full specification as if using the DPA modular amplifier bodies, but "good enough for taper work" given the compact stealthiness trade-off.
Sounds like a much larger battery drain and thus less recording time. I totally agree with you on a mini xlr would be much more secure as well as robust connection over the micro dot.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on May 05, 2017, 06:49:03 PM
This might get me to lose the cs batt box > sbm-1.

Lotsa $$ though, and I would have to get my heb set terminated to microdot...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on May 07, 2017, 06:50:21 PM
I suspect the DPA "active" adapter cable thing with the capsule mount at one end and the microdot at the other contains voltage converter circuitry which steps up from 5V to whatever bias voltage the full size capsule needs to operate.. probably not to full specification as if using the DPA modular amplifier bodies, but "good enough for taper work" given the compact stealthiness trade-off.

Per DPA, the MMP-GR/GS cables were designed to allow the full-size capsules to work with wireless transmitters, many of which supply 5 V (they spec the cables at 5 V and 1 mA for full performance). As you suspect, the max SPL decreases, while the noise increases, so not full spec (compared to the MMP-ER/ES XLR cables), but still decent for many taper applications. No idea how this affects run-time, but DPA told me the MPS-6030 or MMA-6000 would work fine with them. Very curious about how they would perform with the d:vice.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on May 08, 2017, 08:56:11 AM
Thanks for the confirmation on my speculation.  DPA has grown very modular over the past 5 years.  Lots of options here.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: John Willett on May 08, 2017, 10:33:20 AM
I suspect the DPA "active" adapter cable thing with the capsule mount at one end and the microdot at the other contains voltage converter circuitry which steps up from 5V to whatever bias voltage the full size capsule needs to operate.. probably not to full specification as if using the DPA modular amplifier bodies, but "good enough for taper work" given the compact stealthiness trade-off.

DPA mics are pre-polarised (ie: electrets) so they don't need a capsule bias voltage at all.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on May 08, 2017, 11:42:43 AM
I should have referred to it as FET or transistor power I suppose.  Correct, no high-voltage polarization bias is required with pre-polarized electrets, so running the capsules off a lower supply voltage won't affect capsule polarization the way it does with an externally polarized capsule.  It's simply the power requirements of the buffer/amplification circuitry which needs to be met, and those requirements vary depending on the specifications of that circuitry, hence the 5V, 48V and 130V DPA variants. 

Most users are familiar with pre-polarized eletrets in the form miniature microphones, most often but not always with a non-balanced output.  Use of electrets throughout the entire high-quality, regular-sized, balanced-output capsule range is unique to DPA as far as I'm aware.  Historically when other manufacturer's have used pre-polarized capsules in their non-miniature lines, it's been restricted to their lower-quality microphone lines.  I've long thought about the implications of high quality DPA capsules being pre-polarized with regards to alternate non-phantom powering options, and this is the first I've seen of them leveraging that particular advantage.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dactylus on May 08, 2017, 12:51:00 PM
Thanks for the confirmation on my speculation.  DPA has grown very modular over the past 5 years.  Lots of options here.

Time to break out the MMA6000?

 :bigsmile:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on May 08, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
Thanks for the confirmation on my speculation.  DPA has grown very modular over the past 5 years.  Lots of options here.

Time to break out the MMA6000?

 :bigsmile:

MMA6000 makes a post-retirement career move, as an analog-only, self-powered, larger-packaged and non-remote managed version of the d:vice interface. :cheers:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: goodcooker on May 08, 2017, 03:42:55 PM
Use of electrets throughout the entire high-quality, regular-sized, balanced-output capsule range is unique to DPA as far as I'm aware.  Historically when other manufacturer's have used pre-polarized capsules in their non-miniature lines, it's been restricted to their lower-quality microphone lines.

Sort of off topic but I'm almost positive that I read that the AKG CK_X series is a pre polarized version of the original CK_ series of capsules.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on May 21, 2017, 02:35:52 PM
The d:vice™ MMA-A comes with one Micro USB-B to iOS (Lightning) and one Micro USB-B to PC / Mac (USB-A) cable.

So it should be able to interface with a PC in addition to iPhones/iPads. Perhaps there will be Android connectivity in the future? I see two different images that appear to show the d:vice accepting both types of cables.

What happens when Apple inevitably changes the lightning connector to something else?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on May 22, 2017, 06:57:54 AM
What happens when Apple inevitably changes the lightning connector to something else?

I would guess that DPA could address the (definitely inevitable) Lightning connector "upgrade" by offering a new micro USB-B to Apple cable?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: ButchAlmberg on May 22, 2017, 11:51:49 AM
I don't know that I would use this at festivals and the like, but for  >:D and live streaming it seems ideal.

But IF one wanted to use this at a festival, I wonder if this would be beneficial...

https://www.amazon.com/Pen-Drive-G-TING-Lightning-Expansion-Computers/dp/B01IKE9SLY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1495468138&sr=8-3&keywords=external+iphone+storage
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on May 22, 2017, 01:27:36 PM
What happens when Apple inevitably changes the lightning connector to something else?

I would guess that DPA could address the (definitely inevitable) Lightning connector "upgrade" by offering a new micro USB-B to Apple cable?

So it comes standard with a USB-B connector? It's difficult to tell from the pictures but the text seems to suggest that is the case. That certainly would be ideal.

I wonder if there would be a way to construct a breakout cable to allow for USB powering and 1/8" out.

Edit - it's showing up at B&H for $659.95, not yet in stock.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on May 22, 2017, 03:38:59 PM
^ I think so, although it is difficult to tell. In the fourth picture down on this page (http://www.dpamicrophones.com/microphones/dvice), it does look like a micro USB. I guess DPA would avoid using an Apple connector on their side of things, too.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: nolamule on May 23, 2017, 09:52:00 PM
Marking thread...this thing looks killer!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: texasmfp on May 24, 2017, 01:52:54 PM
If anybody is in SoCal, there will be a hands on demo with the DPA rep at Location Sound:

On Tuesday, June 13 (9:30 AM - 12 PM) at Location Sound, join Eric Stahlhammer, DPA's Area Sales Manager and (schedule-allowing) Peter Ølsted, a Los Angeles-based Production Sound Mixer. In this informal Open House and Q&A session, Eric and Peter will demo the latest DPA products such as the d:vice Digital Audio Interface, and much more. Save the date!

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on May 24, 2017, 04:36:11 PM
Date saved.

Thx for the heads up.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on June 01, 2017, 06:37:06 AM
I just received an e-mail from Amptec (the Benelux DPA distributor) saying that these are shipping!  As they put it, "We were overwhelmed by demand since the initial announcement, so if you are interested in obtaining a unit, contact us ASAP." 

musicstore.de is listing them at € 569 and "Snel leverbaar, 5-7 werkdagen" (available quickly, 5 - 7 work days).  B&H has them listed at $ 659.95, but no availability as of yet...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 05, 2017, 05:54:13 PM
Some pics and (translated) text from the Beijing Audio Show here:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.midifan.com/modulenews-detailview-26923.htm&prev=search

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on June 06, 2017, 08:18:57 PM
I can't find any specs on what the gain range is?
Also is it possible to use other brand mics with this by using a adapter cable going from 1/8 mini terminated mics to microdot?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on June 07, 2017, 09:03:51 AM
I expect it will work with other 2-wire low voltage mics.  I don't expect it would work with other phantom powered mics.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 09, 2017, 01:27:18 PM
The d:vice app was added to the Apple Store today.

http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/d-vice/id1182987675
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on June 11, 2017, 10:55:35 PM
Seriously looking at this now.  The dpa app requires iOS 10.0 or better, which rules out really old iphones, but will run on an iPod Touch, which looks like a more affordable way to go for those with Android phones.  Can anyone point me to info on how the iphone/ipod would handle a digital-in signal, and how you would get the file out of it into a PC editor without going through iTunes?  Are there apps that record and open new files without loss when size limits are reached?

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dominicperry on June 12, 2017, 06:42:39 PM
iOS treats digital and analogue signals the same if they are designated as 'mic in' and it records the file in whatever audio app you are using. No clever stuff needed.
AudioShare is a good cheap app for 2 channel audio recording - has a variety of input parameters that you can set, some post processing if you want (like normalisation), and lots of export options - via email, iMessage (Apple's text application) or WiFi server - it will advertise the phone and let you log on from another wifi connected device - the phone looks like a web page and you can copy the files.
I haven't done a lot of extended recording with it but it's never failed on 45 minute takes. I'd have to check if it will allow different levels for the two channels - I always record as a stereo pair.
Dominic
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 13, 2017, 01:32:27 PM
Here's an unboxing video that was posted yesterday with audio from 4060 > MMA d:vice. They also connect a 4011 capsule to show the functionality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzglKhwsmzo
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on June 13, 2017, 02:59:21 PM
Just finished checking this out. I am more impressed than I thought I would be...

Interesting note-the dpa app locks the settings in the d:vice, then you use another app to record (Eric was using hindenberg, which tops out at 2448, but there might be other recording apps that run 2496). I assume that you would pull the files off via the app window in iTunes (like you add flacs with the onkyo player), but that would be something specific to the recording app (and I have not checked out the Hindenburg page, yet)...

Want to mention that Eric could not have been more helpful. Good stuff!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 13, 2017, 03:56:28 PM
The DPA specs say the d:vice supports sample rates 44.1 - 96kHz, but that the recorded sample rate is set by "3rd party app". Is that to suggest that the d:vice always sends a 96k signal?

Shouldn't this be a setting in the DPA app? What's to keep the 3rd party app from resampling if the user sets the rate below 96k?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on June 13, 2017, 04:47:01 PM
It looked to me that the sample rate and word length are set by an external app... looks like the dpa app handles the analog side of things-set gain, apply bass roll off, and then the recording device takes over from there-setting rate and word length and then writing the actual file... The adc chip is the one in the iPhone, if my understanding is correct...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 13, 2017, 04:57:57 PM
The d:vice is marketed as a preamp and A/D converter, according to DPA. That means the conversion to digital occurs in the d:vice, prior to the iPhone. Personally, I'd prefer DPA handle that portion of the stream. They wouldn't have sample rate specs listed if it were an analog device only.

I'd like some insight on what actually happens to that digital data once the iPhone gets ahold of it.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on June 13, 2017, 05:02:30 PM
If you don't mind I will copy and paste the above in an email to Eric and ask...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 13, 2017, 06:12:54 PM
Sure thing. Let us know what you find out.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on June 13, 2017, 08:50:41 PM
Haven't heard back, but when I look the d:vice up on the dpa site, I see this:

"44.1, 48 (default), 88.2, 96 kHz. Sample rates can be set by 3rd-party app"

So maybe the a/d is handled by the d:vice but not set in the dpa app, but via the recording app you use...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 14, 2017, 05:11:38 PM
Here's another video I came across. Acoustic guitar fingerpicking with 2x 4060 > MMA d:vice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC340vBkpXU
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dominicperry on June 15, 2017, 09:02:47 AM
The A/D conversion is done by the d:vice. Apple's Lightning connector is digital only (unlike the old 30pin connector, which at one time was both analogue and digital, before it became digital only around the time of the iPhone 4S).

As well as the digital audio signal, Lightning carries power and control signals. So the DPA app can in theory set things like gain level and sample rate (it doesn't control sample rate at the moment). Other applications can also change these things, if the DPA d:vice and the 3rd party application use standard 'CoreAudio' functionality. The DPA app has a 'lock' button, which implies that the parameters it sets can be locked so that other applications can't change things. That would be a proprietary control.
It's hard to say how this will work in the real world without trying one.

As a similar example (and related, because Macs also use 'CoreAudio') - if you have an Apogee audio interface, the mic pre-amp gain can be set on the physical interface itself, and by the Apogee Maestro app on the Mac. If you have Apple's Logic (DAW) then you can alter the mic-preamp gain from inside Logic, but if you use Presonus Studio One, you can't.

Does that help? Probably not. We will have to wait to see..........

Dominic
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on June 15, 2017, 01:04:48 PM
When I saw the demo, the dpa app locked the levels and the gain was not able to be altered with the third party app. However it was the third party app (hindenberg was the one used) that set the word length and sample rate. The app had only 2448 settings, but maybe garage band does 2496... I was told that the d:vice can go better than 24192....
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 15, 2017, 08:08:40 PM
Any brave souls placed their order yet? It appears a few retailers are accepting drop shipment orders.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on June 16, 2017, 06:29:00 AM
If I hadn't just dropped a pile of cash on some other taping toys (mics, recorder), I would have ordered one already.  I will get one soon, though, after I replenish the coffers a bit.  A month or two.  I assume there will be many reviews by then; a DPA distributor I spoke with said there has been a LOT of interest...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on June 16, 2017, 08:35:41 AM
I'm holding out for the 4-channel version.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on July 31, 2017, 01:06:47 PM
i dont have an iphone but the d:vice just works fine on my android smartphone together with a pair of DPA 4018 (d:dicate) mics :)
Essential is that you use an OTG USB Cable otherwise the d:vice won't be recognized.
I use RecForge for Recording.

Someone need to programm an app so you can change the settings on androids as well... ;)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on July 31, 2017, 01:52:01 PM
Cool, good to hear and thanks for the report.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on July 31, 2017, 08:47:48 PM
i dont have an iphone but the d:vice just works fine on my android smartphone together with a pair of DPA 4018 (d:dicate) mics :)
Essential is that you use an OTG USB Cable otherwise the d:vice won't be recognized.
I use RecForge for Recording.

Someone need to programm an app so you can change the settings on androids as well... ;)

Is the short MMA-A to USB cable that comes with the DPA d:vice the kind of cable you mean?

Do you know any Android recording apps that do 24/96 with seamless splits at 2 or 4 GB and keep on recording?

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beenjammin on July 31, 2017, 09:06:25 PM
i dont have an iphone but the d:vice just works fine on my android smartphone together with a pair of DPA 4018 (d:dicate) mics :)
Essential is that you use an OTG USB Cable otherwise the d:vice won't be recognized.
I use RecForge for Recording.

Someone need to programm an app so you can change the settings on androids as well... ;)

What are your thoughts on the quality of the pre and AD conversion? On par with the Nagra SD?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on August 01, 2017, 11:17:57 AM
The Cables that come with the D:VICE are not suitable to run it on an android smartphone. Just for connecting with IPHONE or PC. I also tried using many adapters with these cables at first but none worked.
I finally got it to work with this cable: http://www.meenova.com/st/p/mbc_c2mu.html

I don't know about the recommandable recording apps myself yet. You can record 24 Bit/192 etc. with USB Audio Recorder Pro:
http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-recorder-pro

It also splits the files at 2 GB.
http://www.extreamsd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=541

Also i havent done a proper comparison to my non-stealth equipment.
I was just happy my stealth rig was reduced to nearly nothing when i got it to work yesterday :)
Quality (just recorded some music of my speakers) was excellent however.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 01, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
That's encouraging.

The stated multichannel recording ability of USB Audio Recorder Pro got me wondering about running two d:VICE into one phone.
Found this similar inquiry, which is at least suggests that possibility in the future if not presently- http://www.extreamsd.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=442

(http://f2.s.qip.ru/qpjF8Sdl.png)

Just thinking that option may come to fruition before/if DPA ever decides to produce a 4-channel version.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 01, 2017, 08:27:51 PM
The Cables that come with the D:VICE are not suitable to run it on an android smartphone. Just for connecting with IPHONE or PC. I also tried using many adapters with these cables at first but none worked.
I finally got it to work with this cable: http://www.meenova.com/st/p/mbc_c2mu.html


This cable will work with an android phone that uses a USB C cable, I have an ancient Samsung with only micro-USB (like the MMA-A itself).  What phone are you using?

The program does seem from the descriptions to do what I want (too bad there is no iOS version). 

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on August 03, 2017, 02:53:31 PM
I use the Sony Xperia ZX Premium.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 06, 2017, 04:09:26 PM
Good news and bad news on this.
I decided that although AudioShare and Recorder Pro would not let me record in 24/96, I would go with Voice Record 7 Pro, which did let me set 96kHz but shuts off recording at 4GB, I was attending a shortish accordion program and two hours would give me plenty of room.  It also turns out that people pull out their cell phones so regularly that resetting to start a new file will likely be no issue most of the time.  Now this was the first time I have taped accordion as well as my first run with the MMA-A so I was way low on levels (I do have sympathy for those who believe that you can never set levels low enough for accordion recording).  Good news is that even with a 12 dB boost the recording sounds fine, so at least two of the extra 8 bits are good. The MMA-A and app work very smoothly, and even after almost two hours the iPhone 6S Plus showed 93% battery left.
The bad news is that even though I got 24/96 size files, there was zero signal present above about 20kHz.  So the two other apps were telling me something true about the iPhone 6S Plus with the current iOS version, it doesn't seem to do 96kH (I know the problem is not with the MMA-A, since I can run it into my laptop and record with Audacity and those high frequencies are definitely present).
Does the Sony phone actually get real 24/96 recordings?  If so, with what app?  Anyone find an app for the iPhone which does 96kH with the MMA-A??
Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on August 07, 2017, 03:08:55 PM
Do you think this is a hardware issue with the iPhone6plus, or a software issue..?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: goodcooker on August 07, 2017, 04:41:15 PM
Good news and bad news on this.
I decided that although AudioShare and Recorder Pro would not let me record in 24/96, I would go with Voice Record 7 Pro, which did let me set 96kH but shuts off recording at 4GB, I was attending a shortish accordion program and two hours would give me plenty of room.  It also turns out that people pull out their cell phones so regularly that resetting to start a new file will likely be no issue most of the time.  Now this was the first time I have taped accordion as well as my first run with the MMA-A so I was way low on levels (I do have sympathy for those who believe that you can never set levels low enough for accordion recording).  Good news is that even with a 12 dB boost the recording sounds fine, so at least two of the extra 8 bits are good. The MMA-A and app work very smoothly, and even after almost two hours the iPhone 6S Plus showed 93% battery left.
The bad news is that even though I got 24/96 size files, there was zero signal present above about 20kH.  So the two other apps were telling me something true about the iPhone 6S Plus with the current iOS version, it doesn't seem to do 96kH (I know the problem is not with the MMA-A, since I can run it into my laptop and record with Audacity and those high frequencies are definitely present).
Does the Sony phone actually get real 24/96 recordings?  If so, with what app?  Anyone find an app for the iPhone which does 96kH with the MMA-A??
Jeff

Just because you are recording at 96kHz doesn't mean there will actually be any information above 20kHz - just that it is capable of reproducing it if there is. Very few microphones will capture any data at that frequency range and very few things will make any sound at that frequency anyway. Violins, organs, maybe a few other instruments close miked will have very high frequency info but most will not. Also, it's above the range of human hearing capability, so I don't see what the big deal is.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: morst on August 07, 2017, 06:04:28 PM

Just because you are recording at 96kHz doesn't mean there will actually be any information above 20kHz - just that it is capable of reproducing it if there is. Very few microphones will capture any data at that frequency range and very few things will make any sound at that frequency anyway. Violins, organs, maybe a few other instruments close miked will have very high frequency info but most will not. Also, it's above the range of human hearing capability, so I don't see what the big deal is.
This is very true. Cymbals and horns have a lot of uhf content too, btw.

Also if you're recording a PA system, typical dynamic stage mics used for rock don't have much over 20kHz, so the mix won't have much of that content either.

Uses I can think of for 96K include
improved anti-aliasing filters
making recordings designed for animals like birds or dogs
future-proofing your recordings in case humans develop improved hearing via medical, genetic, or evolutionary means
if you want to play back samples (for instance, of bird songs) shifted down several octaves and still wanted some high frequency content.

I found out a couple years ago that I can't even hear 13kHz anymore. I used to be able to hear television sets blasting their 15750 Hz NTSC lines, back when I half as old as I am now!!  :tomato:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 07, 2017, 07:12:49 PM
The same mics (DPAs) into Audacity on a PC give signal up there very obvious in an iZotope Rx frequency plot of the file.  And, yes, you can't hear that extension if you select for it and have iZotope Rx play it.  But just like I like to have extra bits so I can boost a low recording level before dithering to 16 bits, when I get to work in iZotope I find it helps to have extra kHz for fixing junk like audience noise and background crap.  Can I prove that?  No. but I think others, who also can't hear above 20 kHz, like using 96kHz for that reason too.  Go tell SD, Nagra, and Sonosax to drop 96 kH recording.
I asked a question on Gearslutz about iOS apps for recording at 96kHz a few weeks ago, so far over 250 people have read it and the thread has logged not a single response.  Here people are more friendly, telling me several times that I don't really want to do 96kHz, which somehow doesn't really feel helpful.  YES I DO WANT 96kHz.  Even if I have to buy a Sony phone to do it (thanks for that pointer, Chrysler).
By the way, if you don't feel you need more than 48kHz and two channels, the DPA MMA-A is marvelous. 

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 07, 2017, 07:49:28 PM
Do you think this is a hardware issue with the iPhone6plus, or a software issue..?

Not sure.  It may also be iOS 10.3, which my phone upgraded itself to last week.  A lot of the audio apps seem (by the feedback complaints) to have lost features in earlier iOS "upgrades."  The d:vice is new, so I haven't seen any reports of successful use at 96kH with other iPhone models or iOS versions.  I started out thinking the app was at fault, but I have tried three apps that claim to do 96kH and none can. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on August 07, 2017, 08:29:56 PM
Early adopters blues. I was just wondering if this issue is due to hardware, operating system, or app

Color me confused, but isn't sampling rate the number of times per second samples are taken..? I didn't think it had anything to do with range of hearing...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 07, 2017, 08:50:35 PM
Color me confused, but isn't sampling rate the number of times per second samples are taken..? I didn't think it had anything to do with range of hearing...

That's correct.  Sample rate determines the frequency range capable of being captured - based on the fundamentals of sampling theory, frequencies up to half the sample rate are capable of being recorded and reproduced.  In reality slightly less than half is possible due to the impossibility of a infinitely sharp cut off filter, and in the real world all the other stuff involved - sources, microphones, reproduction gear, and all the other bits in between may or may not be capable of passing the high frequency information if it is there.

Nothing to do with what we can hear or not, but rather the "bandwidth" capability of the recording system.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on August 07, 2017, 11:41:08 PM
Thx for the confirmation, gb
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on August 08, 2017, 10:38:04 AM
^ The reason people are bringing up the range of hearing is that, beyond 40 kHz (plus a little for filtering, as implied by Gutbucket), you are recording frequencies that can't be heard.  By humans, anyway.  That's why CDs are 44.1 kHz; 20 kHz frequency  response, plus some room for the filters (some details from Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44,100_Hz)).

when I get to work in iZotope I find it helps to have extra kHz for fixing junk like audience noise and background crap.

Couldn't you just upsample with a good SRC for the editing?  I am pretty sure ~Jon Stoppable posted about doing that previously, but I can't find his post at the moment...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: goodcooker on August 08, 2017, 11:20:46 AM

Not trying to tell you what to do or how to record. Just pointing out a few details that other users may be interested in.

John Peluso claims his microphones pick up frequencies up to 30 kHz and some folks swear that without the upper frequency data being represented the way we perceive the data (hear the sounds) in the audible range is affected. Like recording a violin, for example.

Do your thang man!

On topic. I really like this device and would seriously consider getting a 4061 setup for stage lip recordings and super low pro stuff. Not that I do much of that. It would be nice to be able to have it in a pocket to take to shows as a just in case scenario. I don't do anything apple but I could get a used iPhone off Craigslist for cheaper than a new recorder.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on August 08, 2017, 06:51:21 PM
John Peluso claims his microphones pick up frequencies up to 30 kHz and some folks swear that without the upper frequency data being represented the way we perceive the data (hear the sounds) in the audible range is affected. Like recording a violin, for example.

Dan Lavry counters that argument in several of his venerable white papers, such as this one (http://www.lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-white-paper-the_optimal_sample_rate_for_quality_audio.pdf):

Quote from: Dan Lavry
It has been well documented that acoustic musical instruments generate energy at frequencies far above audibility. In the performance space (before any recording takes place), if there is any mechanism that enable ultrasonic frequencies to impact what we hear, it would require energy transfer from ultrasonic frequencies to the audible range. Therefore, using microphones and gear that cover what we hear enables us to capture and keep ALL the energy we need.

YMMV and all...

On topic. I really like this device and would seriously consider getting a 4061 setup for stage lip recordings and super low pro stuff. Not that I do much of that. It would be nice to be able to have it in a pocket to take to shows as a just in case scenario. I don't do anything apple but I could get a used iPhone off Craigslist for cheaper than a new recorder.

It should also work with an iPod with the appropriate connector, which may be cheaper (and have more memory).
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: capnhook on August 09, 2017, 08:50:49 AM
WiFiJeff, stay away from the 24/96 Kool-Aid.  It will give you headaches.. :bigsmile:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 09, 2017, 10:34:05 AM
Oh boy! Sample rate arguments.

Lavry' argument doesn't counter Peluso's so much as meshing with it in an pragmatic way.  In the paper linked above he states that he feels 96kHz is the preferred top rate for audio quality partly because it is capable of recording sources which reach up to ~40khz, yet isn't ridiculously wasteful of resources beyond that, where ever higher rates can actually begin to introduce problems of reduced accuracy.  He's a quintessential engineer by mindset, and engineering is all about finding optimized solutions to problems - the sweet spot in the middle ground, enough to provide leeway but not too much extra.

Working from that principle, I've reached the conclusion that for music recording in general, sample rates from 44.1khz to 96kHz are reasonable, and 192kHz (or more) is total overkill.  I choose to record at 48kHz because I couldn't hear a significant difference between 48kHz and 96kHz in test recordings I've made using my gear in optimal conditions and don't feel the doubling of storage space requirements is worth whatever subtle benefits the higher rate might provide, compounded by having found far more very-audible value in increasing channel count over increases in sample rate.  As my channel counts have increased, the need to keep file-sizes manageable has also grown increasingly compelling, solidifying that decision.  I'm always recording at least 4 channels, often 6, sometimes up to 8 or more. 

Those are my practical reasons for recording at 48kHz. I don't have any philosophical problems whatsoever with others choosing to record at 96kHz, but I do question the pragmatism of anything higher.

There is also a common argument about what quality envelope is really required to fully contain taper recordings of PA systems.  Okay, I understand that and it certainly applies in many cases here at TS.  Yet some members here such as WifiJeff are recording a lot of non-amplified acoustic music in fine acoustic spaces where the argument for a higher quality envelope gains traction.

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on August 09, 2017, 10:52:10 AM
^ Actually, Lavry argues that ~ 60 kHz would be ideal, but, since that is generally not an option, 88.2 or 96 are good (available) choices.  He definitely argues, in both this paper and his Sampling Theory one, that any audible impact of ultrasonics can be recorded with gear that captures the audible range; his reasons for going higher are purely engineering.

In any event, I am not arguing for or against 96 kHz.  Since WiFiJeff is having trouble finding software that works at 96 kHz, I was just suggesting a work-around that might meet his need for manipulation in post based on upsampling...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on August 09, 2017, 11:36:57 AM
So, that d:vice thing is pretty neat, I hear...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 09, 2017, 12:07:16 PM
So, that d:vice thing is pretty neat, I hear...

Teething pains with new gear and the tangents to which they lead..

"He's turned off his targeting computer!"
Rebel pilot red 5 implores-

(https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/1OVrm9keZvk5jG8Sh-cr3sECXyCLk7W8a5zw1TtAPw6K-Mb6JQMzSI24g_r2JJ9sT9RdWhWvXSDQEZuAHzCPiuOqOXEcPqqqBE6-TnvCaBkgjF60ZZ69PF_N1kTW7dDjsmE4HaA1vBDDuehEm3aa1FJgGS8F8REQDWoxBury0Tf5-tLKJWSUJjq9tFTgZpeFjjWBRjpIxdlTrna_6hzzNi-kodZNjbMKi20mtZ8pi-WCLSpK3y5QNgQ=s0-d-e1-ft#https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--QDqli7h2--/t_Preview/b_rgb:191919,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1446201638/production/designs/153292_0.jpg)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on August 09, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
Atta Jedi!

Oh, how the tangents lead us astray.

I'm still trying to shed myself from the sheer want of this thing. It's not like I need it or anything. My bbox>m10 works just fine, but I find myself reading about this "device" more than I need to.

I'd rather find solutions to WiFiJeff's concerns, however, because this unit (coming from DPA) should operate as specified. This ain't Tascam! It's kind of annoying that they developed a control app to setup the d:vice, but then leave the user hanging on the recording end.

We've got plenty of fine threads debating the merits of higher sampling rates, and I enjoy reading them. I'm certainly not trying to stifle conversation here, fwiw.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: capnhook on August 09, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Yeah, gonna need them higher sample rates seven generations from now, when our hearing evolves....so we can enjoy them with the aliens.

 :yikes:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on August 09, 2017, 01:38:01 PM
^ is anyone even debating that? We're just trying to figure out if the device works as advertised. I never record at 96kHz, btw. WFJ appears to want that functionality for his editing workflow.

Nothing wrong with recording at 16/44.1, capn.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: capnhook on August 09, 2017, 04:27:10 PM
24/44.1 or 24/48 seems to be optimal for humans using recorders.  Process in 32bit float, then convert to whatever you like.


Yeah, this d:VICE is a revolutionary step...let's get back on target with this thread.

Thanks for letting me clarify my opinion.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 09, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Them aliens might be punks rather than golden-ears. We may wanna rock out with 'em to some 8-bit Devo synth roboto-voice jams lest we offend their musical prejudices!

oops! did it again.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 11, 2017, 09:58:47 AM
Sorry to interrupt these Hi-Res rants with some maybe useful info.

Following a suggestion from DPA, I purchased the Rode recording app.  I hadn't tried this because it has gotten some poor reviews and also didn't claim to work with non-Rode inputs.

I can confirm that it will work with the d:vice MMA-A and record at 24/96.  Signal  up to 40kHz (96kHz sampling rate) is definitely present.  I am testing now to see if it can roll over seamlessly at 2GB or 4GB.  Clearly Apple did something to break those other apps which think they can do 24/96, but iOS 10.3 and the iPhone 6s Plus are clearly capable of handling this resolution.  I hope the other apps get fixed since the Rode app is not entirely easy for me to use yet, maybe I'll get used to it.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: capnhook on August 11, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
Sorry to interrupt these Hi-Res truths with some maybe useful info...


Fixed that for you Jeff  :cheers:

Oh, and those 40KHz tones, it's probably aliasing you are seeing.  You surely aren't hearing those.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 11, 2017, 11:51:25 AM
Oh, and those 40KHz tones, it's probably aliasing you are seeing.  You surely aren't hearing those.

Thank you for continuing to repeat these original and informative observations, which are not responsive to my inquiry and off topic to the subject of this thread.  I will forward them to Nagra, SD, Sonosax,Tascam, Sony and other manufacturers so they can adjust their future product offerings accordingly.  I am also coding a bot which will insert them into all TS threads that mention 96kHz recording (oh wait, maybe you've done that already).

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 11, 2017, 02:02:58 PM
The Rode recording app solves all my issues, though it requires some extra work.  You can select sampling rate and stereo or mono file before starting to record, when you finish and want to export you select the export format (.wav, mp3, FLAC, etc.).  For a shorter file I selected wav and got a true 96kHz wav file.  I then recorded for about three hours, it didn't do a split but for export there was no wav selection available, only CAF.  Audacity will allow you to load the large CAF file and split it to export as a 32 bit floating wav file, Wavelab and iZotope Rx can handle those.  The transfer to PC is either by WiFi or iTunes, WiFi can be rather slow but otherwise I've had no problems.

Hope to try it out in the field next week.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 11, 2017, 04:24:40 PM
Inductive reasoning indicates atsolata Hanks!

Thanks for the real world updates on use of this thing-a-majob, Jeff.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 11, 2017, 06:28:00 PM
I don't care what sample rate you are using, but I'm pretty sure it's not 96 kilohenries.

My bad.  I've gone back and corrected all the "kHs" to "kHzs" for all those who were understandably totally confused by my error.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kindms on August 11, 2017, 06:59:33 PM
wow this thread is bizarre

Jeff thanks for the info etc. While I dont do the 96 ive been following your updates as this device seems about the easiest thing to get in to a show ever

glad we've got the early adopters here. Makes it easy for us slackers
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 18, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
Usually I tape piano using four channels, main pair of DPA 4081s (hypercardioid) with bass added from a pair of 4060s into a DR-2D.  So this omni-only run with the d:vice is for me not an optimal test, but the best opportunity for me until October.  I was close to the piano, but room acoustics not optimal.  I hope it gives some idea of what the DPA4060 > d:vice MMA-A > iPhone 6s can do at 24/96.

https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/An1XxGGZyF (https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/An1XxGGZyF)

The Rode Recorder has some quirks.  You have to load the DPA app before opening the recorder and keep it running in the background, or the Rode app will change levels I think, at least according to the readings on the DPA app.  And WiFi to my computer takes a while.  But I am reasonably happy with the results.  I started the recording well ahead of the start of the recital, it ran 3 hours and 20 minutes with the iPhone battery going from 100% to 80%,  so I figure I could record 15-16 hours with no other power source needed (will check out sometime what the drain is if using DPA4006 or 4011 with their active microdot cabling).  This is with wifi turned off and the screen allowed to go dark.

Opinions on the results for d:vice A/D and preamps welcomed (though I don't really care if you think it would be just as good at 44.1/16, see above and countless other threads).

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kindms on August 18, 2017, 06:43:15 PM
Usually I tape piano using four channels, main pair of DPA 4081s (hypercardioid) with bass added from a pair of 4060s into a DR-2D.  So this omni-only run with the d:vice is for me not an optimal test, but the best opportunity for me until October.  I was close to the piano, but room acoustics not optimal.  I hope it gives some idea of what the DPA4060 > d:vice MMA-A > iPhone 6s can do at 24/96.

https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/An1XxGGZyF (https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/An1XxGGZyF)

The Rode Recorder has some quirks.  You have to load the DPA app before opening the recorder and keep it running in the background, or the Rode app will change levels I think, at least according to the readings on the DPA app.  And WiFi to my computer takes a while.  But I am reasonably happy with the results.  I started the recording well ahead of the start of the recital, it ran 3 hours and 20 minutes with the iPhone battery going from 100% to 80%,  so I figure I could record 15-16 hours with no other power source needed (will check out sometime what the drain is if using DPA4006 or 4011 with their active microdot cabling).  This is with wifi turned off and the screen allowed to go dark.

Opinions on the results for d:vice A/D and preamps welcomed (though I don't really care if you think it would be just as good at 44.1/16, see above and countless other threads).

Jeff

uneducated feedback

Playback of sample foobar WAPSI > Grace M902 >ATH-M50

I cranked it and thought it was quiet. I didnt hear any noise that i thought was mechanical. I thought there was some really nice extension. Extremely impressed with what i am hearing from this setup.  I dont think it was "colored" but I have to admit to not being terribly familiar with these mics.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: tnelson on August 19, 2017, 11:57:12 AM
I was close to the piano, but room acoustics not optimal.  I hope it gives some idea of what the DPA4060 > d:vice MMA-A > iPhone 6s can do at 24/96.


Very impressive recording and playing! Would you please describe in a little more detail where you placed the 4060 pair relative to the piano? How close, how high, etc.? Amazing how clean this pocket recording system sounds.
Tim
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on August 19, 2017, 12:39:11 PM
THx for the legwork on this, wifijeff. Does the rode app do 2496 out of the box, so to speak..?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 19, 2017, 10:30:34 PM
The 4060s were in a croakie, I was seated near the tail of the piano front row.  The stage was raised, so I would estimate I was about 8 feet away out from the end of the piano and slightly below (maybe 1-2 feet) the top of the tail .  The room was not a concert room but had small tables in a boxy (but largish) room (but good views of the city). 

The Rode app has a settings page to choose sample rate and mono/stereo.  With the d:vice attached, you are offered up to 96kHz, but with just the iPhone mic you're offered only up to 48kHz.  As I said, when the recording is ended, you are offered formats for saving it, if it runs over 4GB it only offers CAF for uncompressed.  Shorter files can be saved as WAV.  I am avoiding touching the two ways to set levels in Rode Recording because it can, under some circumstances, change the d:vice levels.  My settings were low to be conservative until I get a better feel for the gear, and I boosted by 8dB in post.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: acidjack on August 20, 2017, 05:29:52 PM
Just did my inaugural run with the d:vice yesterday. Pretty easy to use, though I can't for the life of me figure out why DPA's own app doesn't just have a "record" function.

How did you get the Rode app to record from anything but a Rode IXY? That seemed to be the only thing it wanted plugged in when I tried it. I ended up using the Shure Motiv app that comes with the Share MV88. Worked great.

the d:vice does seem to be a power hog, though. In airplane mode it took my iPhone 7 from 50% battery to 5% in about 3 hours of use.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 20, 2017, 07:15:04 PM
Just did my inaugural run with the d:vice yesterday. Pretty easy to use, though I can't for the life of me figure out why DPA's own app doesn't just have a "record" function.

How did you get the Rode app to record from anything but a Rode IXY? That seemed to be the only thing it wanted plugged in when I tried it. I ended up using the Shure Motiv app that comes with the Share MV88. Worked great.

the d:vice does seem to be a power hog, though. In airplane mode it took my iPhone 7 from 50% battery to 5% in about 3 hours of use.

I got the iPhone 6S Plus for its bigger battery, but unless the % life it gives is skewed I can't imagine how the phone could run down that fast.  I do let the screen go dark so I have to key in the password  to reopen it, the recording goes on anyway and I found great battery life with 4060 mics, which mics are you using?  Could the Shure app be doing anything (mp3ing, processing) in the background to drain battery?  Or does it keep the screen lit?  One great advantage of the screen off etc is that you can't accidentally turn off or change anything while it's recording.

I set the d:vice levels with the DPA app and then just loaded in the Rode app, it ran fine.  You have to enable external mics in the app, but it doesn't seem toi insist on Rodes or any of the others listed as compatible.  You just have to buy the app, which I guess comes free with the Rode mics.  Can the Shure app be purchased without the hardware?

I agree that DPA should have included recording software in its app, should have been easy enough to do.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on August 20, 2017, 07:26:29 PM
Shure motiv app is free but I wasn't aware it worked without a Shure motiv mic. :shrug:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on August 21, 2017, 02:25:43 PM
i made a continuous 110 Minute Recording last week using the D:Vice and a Pair of DPA 4018 Capsules (with USB Audio Recorder using my Sony Xperia XZ Premium Smartphone).
I started recording with 90% battery capacity and when i was done the phone was down to just 80%.
I thought i didn't record at all, but it did. :O
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 21, 2017, 07:31:36 PM
How did the sound come out?  The 4018s are full size HyperCard caps, how do they sound on music?  I assume you were using the MMP-GR or GS cables.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: voltronic on August 22, 2017, 06:51:31 AM
The 4060s were in a croakie, I was seated near the tail of the piano front row.  The stage was raised, so I would estimate I was about 8 feet away out from the end of the piano and slightly below (maybe 1-2 feet) the top of the tail .  The room was not a concert room but had small tables in a boxy (but largish) room (but good views of the city). 

Jeff,

Very nice recording, and the Bach was very nicely played.  Sounds like you made yourself into a modified Decca Tail array!

What model piano is this?  It doesn't scream Steinway D to my ears, but that could be the room.


As to the d:vice - Yet another cool product that us Android people can't have!  I'm hoping that once all Android phones have moved over to USB-C that will change.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 22, 2017, 07:58:23 AM
The Sony phone Chrysler is using is Android (but won't work on the Verizon network for me).  I asked DPA if this was doable without possible issues somewhere down the road, since they don't claim Android compatibility, but they haven't answered that one.

I believe the piano that night was a Yamaha, but they had Steinways for other events this month.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dunebug81 on August 23, 2017, 04:17:02 PM
Anyone find a better price than the $560ish that Sweetwater is selling it for. 

Also has there been a consensus on what software is best?  I'm currently running DPA4061 > MMA6000 > M10 @ 24/48.  Looking to change that to 4061 > MMA-A > iphone/ipod touch. 

I hardly ever see any shows that run more than 2 hours so the 4GB limit really would never be an issue.  The auto/seemless split feature would be really nice since every once in a while it would come in handy.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on August 24, 2017, 04:19:51 PM
How did the sound come out?  The 4018s are full size HyperCard caps, how do they sound on music?  I assume you were using the MMP-GR or GS cables.

Jeff

not good (super bassy). i had them just hanging out of a bag that was standing right behind a huge PA.
this was primarily thought as test if i could just hit the record button and everything would go without me having to adjust anything (phone wont go out, battery will last sine my KORG-MR2 tends to switch itself off etc).
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on August 25, 2017, 02:16:51 PM
DPA just updated the app and d:vice firmware.  The main change is a way to sum both channels to mono (yawn) but also unspecified "bug fixes." 

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on September 03, 2017, 11:37:19 AM
Been using his with the røde app @ 2496

Pretty cool stuff. Not sure what I would do if the levels were too hot, as it doesn't seem to let me change levels in the dpa app when I am recording. Also the meters in the dpa app are frozen when recording using the røde app, so it would be tough to adjust, anyway...

Has anyone else gotten a quick glitch when recording? I have gotten one each time I have used the setup. Don't know if my iPod is choking, if storage is scattered (no defraying an iPod), if I f'd it up checking things,  or what... barely noticeable, and a cross fade/pencil tool gets rid of it, but still...

Anyway, here (https://SoundCloud.com/macdaddysinfo/unknown) is a sample result; would love to know what you folks think...




Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 03, 2017, 12:32:12 PM
I have not noticed any glitches (with iPhone 6s), but I'll watch for them.

What battery life do you get with the iPod (and which model are you using)?

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on September 03, 2017, 08:12:13 PM
Battery life is terrific. Dim brightness, auto lock after 30 seconds and airplane mode...

Most recent ipod, 32 gig, latest iOS
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 05, 2017, 05:26:53 PM
I'm holding out for the 4-channel version.

Just posted this weekend on the DPA website, an excerpt from a Danish language review (I would love a translation of the full article) which notes:

"In this context, it is interesting that you can feed the d:viceTM a sync signal to one of the Microdot inputs and thereby use several d:viceTM units simultaneously and in perfect sync."  I would guess this requires two iPhones as well, but am waiting to hear from DPA on how this syncing would be done.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on September 05, 2017, 08:46:15 PM
Hmmm, interesting, thanks.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 07, 2017, 08:40:36 PM
Reply from DPA, this doesn't look useful for me for four channel, unless with FOUR d:vices and phones:


"... we are using one of the audio inputs to feed the SMPTE timecode into the recording while leaving the other track free for a microphone input.
Tentacle has a small software (free) which erases the timecode track and leaves you with the file type you prefer and with the timecode embedded into the file.
It takes only a few seconds in the post situation to accomplish this.
Please visit the homepage of this timecode generator company:
https://www.tentaclesync.com/

The cable to be used for this purpose needs to be set up correctly and I can’t recommend to experience with other timecode generator brands without consulting the schematics of such types as we are sending out a DC (5V) on the MicroDot connectors.
Also we are using a “sense” mechanism to determine whether one or two inputs are active.

The set-up is very nice when you are doing work with multicam (on iOS) or mixed environment camera set-ups as the Tentacle units can be jam synced to other kind of gear (like an ENG camera, DSLR or whatever).


Other means of multicam recordings/productions can be made “on the fly” with for example the Filmic pro App and their corresponding Filmic Remote, where you can control several iOS units from a “master” iOS unit or even an Apple watch.
You can then make sure you are ending up with fx 3 files that have been started/stopped at the same time and with the same metadata.

For sound purposes only the Apogee App handles a similar recording."

On the other hand, I ran a quick and unexpected positive test of an Android bitbucket.  I just upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 with Android 7, and used the app which Chrysler suggested to me above, USB Audio Recorder Pro, which has just been upgraded to support Android 7.  A quick test showed recording at 24/96 successful, with all the high frequencies present in an iZotope scan.  So maybe the new Sony phone will work with the MMA-A?

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 18, 2017, 12:55:30 AM
Finally got to test my d:vice/iPhone with an orchestral group this weekend.  I am very happy with the result.  My impression is that it is cleaner than my earlier setups, DPA4060 > MMA6000 > D50 or DPA4060 > Church "Ugly" > M10.   Here is a link to a sample, comments welcome:

https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/tx2FgOtbxT/fi-9b2f4ead-00ed-4aba-aa74-9f81864f1f54/fv-e5afe76d-dbf1-4665-9a3f-1b1994edb3e2/Sample2.wav (https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/tx2FgOtbxT/fi-9b2f4ead-00ed-4aba-aa74-9f81864f1f54/fv-e5afe76d-dbf1-4665-9a3f-1b1994edb3e2/Sample2.wav)

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on September 18, 2017, 08:58:03 AM
Thanks for the sample Jeff, sounds very right to my ears.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 24, 2017, 01:50:40 AM
Having tried the d:vice MMA-A with piano, accordion, organ and period instrument group, I was anxious to try it also with symphony orchestra, to see if it would cover all the stuff I do.  So I hopped over to hear a local student orchestra with a young soloist.  I think it came out very well (and the waveform looks really clean).  Here's a sample:

https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/EMtO3iNdpb (https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/EMtO3iNdpb)

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on September 24, 2017, 01:23:39 PM
Having tried the d:vice MMA-A with piano, accordion, organ and period instrument group, I was anxious to try it also with symphony orchestra, to see if it would cover all the stuff I do.  So I hopped over to hear a local student orchestra with a young soloist.  I think it came out very well (and the waveform looks really clean).  Here's a sample:

https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/EMtO3iNdpb (https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/EMtO3iNdpb)

Jeff

That sound really nice, would you say that this thing could cope with stack humping at a heavy rock gig?

Cheers
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 24, 2017, 03:32:55 PM

That sound really nice, would you say that this thing could cope with stack humping at a heavy rock gig?

Cheers
Duncan

I have no idea, but I ran it with 11 dB gain using DPA 4060s, which are really hot mics, and boosted 1.7dB in post.  With DPA4061s, flat gain and no additions in post you have an additional ~23 dB of headroom over the loudest drum thumps of a Strauss suite (not in the sample I posted), from front row center in a smaller hall.  If that isn't enough room I'd hate to be present to try it.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: thatjackelliott on September 24, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
"[...] piano, accordion, organ and period instrument group[...]"

I don't think a lot was written for that formation!  :yahoo:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 24, 2017, 09:52:41 PM
"[...] piano, accordion, organ and period instrument group[...]"

I don't think a lot was written for that formation!  :yahoo:

Well, there's the Bach arrangement of "Lady of Spain."  I dunno, could be an interesting combo, ya think?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on September 28, 2017, 04:12:51 PM
So I've just got a D:vice (for the ever increasing need for super stealth in the UK) and I was wondering which recording app/s I should get. I will be recording at 24/48
I've seen a few mentioned but there are so many out there!
That Rode one sure gets some s*** reviews

Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on September 29, 2017, 07:21:58 AM
I've been trying out my new D:Vice and I'm getting lot of crashes with the software and it's disconnected a few times and also when recording the recording app switches back to the iPhone mic (which I assume is a result of the disconnecting issue)

Anyone else having these issues.

I've stupidly updated to iOS 11 so might be related to that

Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on September 29, 2017, 08:42:22 AM
I've been trying out my new D:Vice and I'm getting lot of crashes with the software and it's disconnected a few times and also when recording the recording app switches back to the iPhone mic (which I assume is a result of the disconnecting issue)

Anyone else having these issues.

I've stupidly updated to iOS 11 so might be related to that

Duncan

Make sure to use Airplane Mode and also Do Not Disturb.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 29, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
I've been trying out my new D:Vice and I'm getting lot of crashes with the software and it's disconnected a few times and also when recording the recording app switches back to the iPhone mic (which I assume is a result of the disconnecting issue)

Anyone else having these issues.

I've stupidly updated to iOS 11 so might be related to that

Duncan

No issues for me (iOS 10), the Rode app works perfectly for me.  I am avoiding an upgrade to iOS 11 until I hear that this app or others that promise 24/96 recording actually work with iOS 11.  The Sept 26 update of Audioshare fixes "unresponsive file list after some actions (iOS 11)" and promises future upgrades.  They say iOS 11 broke compatibility with a lot of existing Document Picker Extensions, and "Full iOS files integration will be coming in the near future."  Voice Record Pro 7 just updated today to give "improved compatibility with iOS 11."  So there's hope!

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on September 30, 2017, 03:18:21 AM
No issues for me (iOS 10), the Rode app works perfectly for me.  I am avoiding an upgrade to iOS 11 until I hear that this app or others that promise 24/96 recording actually work with iOS 11.  The Sept 26 update of Audioshare fixes "unresponsive file list after some actions (iOS 11)" and promises future upgrades.  They say iOS 11 broke compatibility with a lot of existing Document Picker Extensions, and "Full iOS files integration will be coming in the near future."  Voice Record Pro 7 just updated today to give "improved compatibility with iOS 11."  So there's hope!

Thanks for the reply
My main concern is with the DPA app as that's the one that crashes and drops the mic connection
Anyway I gave it a run out at a local gig last night and it worked ok using Voice Recorder Pro 7 (Don't think it was the updated version) on iOS 11 which have an update yesterday

I took the trouble of also recording with my normal rig Schoeps CCM5 — SD722

Both recordings @24/48

I'll pull out a track or two today and post them up somewhere
Can anyone recommend a good simple place to post them?

Cheers
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on September 30, 2017, 01:08:30 PM
Except with the Rode app, I don't think you need to have the dpa app running at all once you have set levels.  I have recorded on a pc with Audacity, and even on an Android tablet with USB Audio Recorder Pro at 24/96 and it seems to work fine (though I have not run for longer periods or tried this at a concert). 
You need the dpa app running with the Rode app, since that one seems to want to get into the d:vice and change levels, which it's not supposed to be able to do but will accomplish, alas.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on September 30, 2017, 01:17:09 PM
Except with the Rode app, I don't think you need to have the dpa app running at all once you have set levels.  I have recorded on a pc with Audacity, and even on an Android tablet with USB Audio Recorder Pro at 24/96 and it seems to work fine (though I have not run for longer periods or tried this at a concert). 
You need the dpa app running with the Rode app, since that one seems to want to get into the d:vice and change levels, which it's not supposed to be able to do but will accomplish, alas.

I'll have to do some test but from what I've seen so far the Voice Recorder Pro app reverts to the iPhone mic if the DPA app goes down or disconnects.
It might be a cable/connector issue

Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on October 01, 2017, 08:19:02 AM
For anyone interested here are a couple of samples from my first try with the DPA D:vice.
I used DPA 4061s (attached to glasses) - D:vice - iPhone (dpa App - Voice Recorder Pro7) peaking at about -6db

I also recorded with by main rig Schoeps CCM5 (set to cardioid) — SD722 also peaking at about -6db with mics stealthed in hat

So both sets of mics were within 2-3" of each other

About 8 feet from stack

Both recording were done @ 24/48 and I've done nothing but normalise

Here's a link to the two files in flac and zipped

https://we.tl/OSnW68z9si


Should give you an idea of what the D:vice can do

Cheers
Duncan

P.S. The artist is a band I'd never heard of called The Little Unsaid.
Well worth checking out
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Rick on October 03, 2017, 02:55:37 PM
While not cheap... A DPA 4061 > d:vice > iPhone sounds like an amazingly small low-profile stealth setup. Lots of plastic, not much to 'detect' :hmmm: Then again it's $1,500 for the mics and device.

Subscribing... Hopefully there's more real world reviews. Maybe this can get me back in the game.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on October 03, 2017, 03:11:23 PM
Its worth it. Finally i got a stealth rig with high-quality and nearly nothing to 'detect'.
All the Recorders, Preamps and Battery Packs just gone :)

I made this recording this weekend with my android and a Pair of DPA 4018 as another sample. I recorded @ 16/44.1 for my sony won't allow me differently :/
Also i did not use the latest firmware for the device since i don't have an iphone to update it...

http://www.tommcrae.de/ToriAmos.mp3
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 03, 2017, 04:03:02 PM
Did you try using a different piece of software?  I got 24/96 with USB Audio Recorder Pro on Samsung Galaxy Tab S3.  The software you mentioned that you were using has a description that says it is limited to 16 bit 44.1 kHz.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Jamos on October 03, 2017, 05:49:46 PM
Which sample is which?  I know which one I enjoy more...

For anyone interested here are a couple of samples from my first try with the DPA D:vice.
I used DPA 4061s (attached to glasses) - D:vice - iPhone (dpa App - Voice Recorder Pro7) peaking at about -6db

I also recorded with by main rig Schoeps CCM5 (set to cardioid) — SD722 also peaking at about -6db with mics stealthed in hat

So both sets of mics were within 2-3" of each other

About 8 feet from stack

Both recording were done @ 24/48 and I've done nothing but normalise

Here's a link to the two files in flac and zipped

https://we.tl/OSnW68z9si


Should give you an idea of what the D:vice can do

Cheers
Duncan

P.S. The artist is a band I'd never heard of called The Little Unsaid.
Well worth checking out
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on October 04, 2017, 07:46:28 AM
Which sample is which?  I know which one I enjoy more...

What do you think?
Which do you prefer?
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on October 04, 2017, 12:57:51 PM
Did you try using a different piece of software?  I got 24/96 with USB Audio Recorder Pro on Samsung Galaxy Tab S3.  The software you mentioned that you were using has a description that says it is limited to 16 bit 44.1 kHz.

Jeff

I use USB Audio Recorder Pro, but it will only let me select 16 bit 44.1 as output. don't know why :/
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Jamos on October 05, 2017, 02:24:15 AM
I would guess that sample 1 is the omnis.  It's much more full and rich sounding to my ears.

I was just playing around with my d:vice and 4061s, and am pretty impressed.



Which sample is which?  I know which one I enjoy more...

What do you think?
Which do you prefer?
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on October 05, 2017, 05:33:01 AM
Yes you're right
I'm both please and dismayed that the much cheaper DPA solution sound quality is even close to the Schoeps - SD722 rig, let alone better  :shrug:

That said the 4061s have alway given me excellent results
I forget how good they are now I use the Schoeps CCM5s all the time

Duncan

I would guess that sample 1 is the omnis.  It's much more full and rich sounding to my ears.

I was just playing around with my d:vice and 4061s, and am pretty impressed.



Which sample is which?  I know which one I enjoy more...

What do you think?
Which do you prefer?
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on October 17, 2017, 10:16:21 AM
Had another go recording with the d:VICE
Didn't work out so well this time.
 I was recording sleepmakeswaves a post rock band from Australia as I wanted to check how it handled rock db goodness

Well on the positive side it handled it with no problem (gain set very low)

Unfortunately there must have been a bit of cable jiggle as the d:VICE disconnected from the iPhone after 35 mins and so the second half of the gig was recorded through the iPhone mic
Actually it doesn't sound dreadful but that's beside the point when using a £500 interface

I'm trying again tomorrow with a bit more cable care and will let you know

Cheers
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on October 19, 2017, 01:28:06 PM
I recorded The Breeders in London last night with my DPA4061s -  d:VICE - iPhone setup
It's here if you want to check it out

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=603739

Cheers
Duncan
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on October 21, 2017, 05:27:05 PM
i inquired the developers why i can not record in 24 bit with USB audio recorder pro and that's the explaination:


>     Thank you for contacting us. The app is primarily meant to record and
>     playback from/to a USB audio interface. The Android playback option is
>     more of a 'fallback' option if the USB audio device does not offer
>     playback. In that case, the app only offers 16-bit playback.



Did you try using a different piece of software?  I got 24/96 with USB Audio Recorder Pro on Samsung Galaxy Tab S3.  The software you mentioned that you were using has a description that says it is limited to 16 bit 44.1 kHz.

Jeff

I use USB Audio Recorder Pro, but it will only let me select 16 bit 44.1 as output. don't know why :/
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrysler on October 24, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
oh no, i recored nick cave this sunday with usb audio recorder pro and the app just stopped recording when 2 GB file size were reached :O
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 25, 2017, 08:54:44 AM
oh no, i recored nick cave this sunday with usb audio recorder pro and the app just stopped recording when 2 GB file size were reached :O

Okay, this is truly weird.  I ran a test last night with the d:vice and USB Audio Recorder PRO latest paid version on my Samsung T3 tablet, Android 7.  I ran it 4-5 hours at 24/96, power down to 55% (but screen lit the whole time).  I got four 2 Gig files plus one smaller file, no issue I could see with the splits.
 
Speaking with the DPA folks at AES last week, who told me that the d:vice has been used at 192k and higher by some users, with some equipment.  The USB Audio Recorder Pro sheet says it can go as high as 192k, with some Android devices.  When I went to set sample rates in the USB app (from the I/O tab on the main page) it only allowed me to go to 96k, I assume this is a limitation of the Samsung tablet, or maybe all android devices with the DPA d:vice.  I hope to experiment a bit next week with my laptop to see if I can get 192k or higher, not that I ever plan to record that high but just to see what the limits of the d:vice are.

If I can get my hands on a Sony phone (not widely available here, and not compatible with my Verizon service) I'll test it (but don't hold your breath).

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on November 04, 2017, 05:01:34 PM
HELP! My pair of 4060's are terminated in a single 1/8". Can someone here reterminate them with these Micro Dot connectors? Or, does someone sell an adapter?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: macdaddy on November 05, 2017, 10:29:05 PM
HELP! My pair of 4060's are terminated in a single 1/8". Can someone here reterminate them with these Micro Dot connectors? Or, does someone sell an adapter?
send them to DPA in Colorado...

Hth
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on November 06, 2017, 06:32:41 AM
^^ I would try to trade them for a pair with microdots in the Yardsale.  Seems like there is always someone looking to go the other way.  Or even sell them and buy another pair with the 'dots.  I am sure you can get a cable made, but, personally, I would want to get rid of the 1/8" connection and have only the locking connectors.

Sending them to DPA is also a good idea, but I doubt it will be cheap...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on November 06, 2017, 08:35:19 AM
Third / fourth options:

You or a TS cable maker could do it without special microdot tools in one of two ways by purchasing a cable terminated with male microdots from here and cutting it in half - http://www.cdint.com/catalog/category/Cables/10-32/to+10-3-

Use the two cable halves to either build a stereo female minijack > 2 X male microdot "Y" cable adapter (which doesn't eliminate the stereo minijack connection) OR chop off the existing stereo miniplug and splice to the male microdot terminated cables.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 06, 2017, 09:58:19 AM
Have a new Android phone (LG V30) and ran a quick preliminary test with USB Audio Recorder Pro,  it seems to do 24/96 fine, but I have not tested it with an extrended recording or looked to see what frequencies are really there.  I do note that in this app PLAYBACK is limited to 16 bits, but recording I/O tab lets me set 96/24 just as the Samsung tablet does.

I have been running the d:vice with iPhone 6S+ extensively now, and it is a nice step up in sound (and reduction of mass and complexity) from both the MMA6000 > Sony D50 and the Church Ugly > Sony M10.  Main issues are the time to transfer files (CAF) by WiFi (I found it goes much faster when I leave the iPhone right next to my router), and keeping the Rode recording app from changing my volume settings.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: capnhook on November 06, 2017, 01:50:35 PM
Kick it down to 24/48 WiFiJeff, and you might solve that file transfer time issue.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 09, 2017, 01:03:00 AM
Another sample:

https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/fZCUNncMTK (https://spaces.hightail.com/receive/fZCUNncMTK)

Love this d:vice.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on November 09, 2017, 08:45:05 AM
That sounds outstanding Jeff.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 09, 2017, 09:19:10 AM
That sounds outstanding Jeff.

Thanks.  I'm finding the mechanics of using this also easier and more reliable than other setups, fewer things to go wrong (cables, batteries, separate pre-amps etc.).  I am even trying to replace some of my 4 track efforts with just a DPA 4081 pair and some frequency EQing, in some cases it has worked well.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on December 20, 2017, 11:32:16 PM
Hi folks. Well, I got my pair of 4060's reterminated and bought the D:Vice.

Ran into a bit of a snag with my iPhone 6+. the Rode app isn't accessible. By accessible, I mean it doesn't work well with Voiceover, the screenreader build into iOS that we blind folks use to navigate.  Which other apps should I try? 

Does the Shure Motiv app split files automatically at 2GB or whatever? I need to turn this thing on, 24/48, and just let it run without worry or needing to start new files or anything.

The D:vice app is accessible, in case other blind folks come across this post - I just need to find a suitable recording app.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on December 21, 2017, 09:12:55 AM
Metarecorder works but Im not sure whether it splits files
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on December 21, 2017, 10:58:49 AM
Well, I pulled the trigger on an early xmas gift. Looking forward to playing around with this next week to see what app(s) works with my 6s.

Perhaps we could sticky/edit a list of functional apps for this unit to the first post on page 1?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on December 21, 2017, 01:18:09 PM

Does the Shure Motiv app split files automatically at 2GB or whatever? I need to turn this thing on, 24/48, and just let it run without worry or needing to start new files or anything.



Yes - I use that app w/ the Shure mic, and it will autosplit. It can be a bit buggy though, but if you have the phone software and the app updated, it seems to work best.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on December 22, 2017, 10:47:48 AM
ok, I ran the Motiv app capturing at 24/48 yesterday, and now have several 2GB files on my phone.  "Save to Camera Roll" converts the files to lossy format, which I definitely don't want to do.

Save to Dropbox takes awhile... is there a way to transfer the WAV files from my iPhone 6+ to my Windows 10 PC, preferably using the lightning cable?

Perhaps 1Drive and Google Drive are options? I haven't gone looking for the app versions of those yet.

Obviously, moving 6 or more gigs around takes a little time no matter which method is used, but I'm looking for the quickest, that requires fewest clicks etc. :) What are others here doing to get things out of the Motiv app?

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on December 22, 2017, 11:03:27 AM
I'm not sure from a PC but I use iExplorer on the Mac to extract files directly from an iphone (connected via the lightning cable). There might be a PC equivalent
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on December 23, 2017, 08:56:43 AM
ok, I ran the Motiv app capturing at 24/48 yesterday, and now have several 2GB files on my phone.  "Save to Camera Roll" converts the files to lossy format, which I definitely don't want to do.

Save to Dropbox takes awhile... is there a way to transfer the WAV files from my iPhone 6+ to my Windows 10 PC, preferably using the lightning cable?

Perhaps 1Drive and Google Drive are options? I haven't gone looking for the app versions of those yet.

Obviously, moving 6 or more gigs around takes a little time no matter which method is used, but I'm looking for the quickest, that requires fewest clicks etc. :) What are others here doing to get things out of the Motiv app?

I tried the lightning connection, but had trouble - mostly I'm assuming because it was my work PC and it's weird with outside programs/devices. I've used dropbox, and yes - it does take a while. But it's worked nonetheless...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on December 23, 2017, 01:25:55 PM
ok, I ran the Motiv app capturing at 24/48 yesterday, and now have several 2GB files on my phone.  "Save to Camera Roll" converts the files to lossy format, which I definitely don't want to do.

Save to Dropbox takes awhile... is there a way to transfer the WAV files from my iPhone 6+ to my Windows 10 PC, preferably using the lightning cable?

Perhaps 1Drive and Google Drive are options? I haven't gone looking for the app versions of those yet.

Obviously, moving 6 or more gigs around takes a little time no matter which method is used, but I'm looking for the quickest, that requires fewest clicks etc. :) What are others here doing to get things out of the Motiv app?

My d:vice arrived in the mail yesterday and I've been playing around with it this morning.  I installed the DPA and Shure Motiv apps successfully and setup was painless.  After setting the 4061 mics up in the DPA app (stereo, +20dB gain, no roll off), I made a 1.5 hour test recording in the Shure Motiv app (24 bit/48kHz) and the file saved. My battery drained approximately 20% (iphone 6s).

To access the file from your iPhone:
- open iTunes
- click on the device icon at the top left (the icon with a picture of the phone)
- under Settings on the left, click on File Sharing
- select the MOTIV app and the wav file(s) should appear on the right to save to PC
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on December 24, 2017, 11:36:09 AM
Thanks for those iTunes instructions! I'll try those today.

Also, I found that the Audioshare app lets you select 96K sampling rate, but I haven't tested it yet to see if there is any content up there. :)

I captured an amazing Steely Dan tribute band on Friday night: DPA 4060's > D:vice > Motiv app > Magix Sound Forge 11 pro > iZotope Ozone > FLAC

It's currently seeing on Dime.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=609269

I can stick that somewhere else if there are any rabid fans of The Dan here who aren't members at Dime.

Not an overly loud band, and I was running at 30% (+9dB). I hit 0 a few times, although the clipping wasn't audible. Interesting... is this thing hard to clip, similar to the Sony PCM-10's line in?

Anyway, I'm now wondering if I'll be able to capture loud things like metal bands, running the D:vice at 0%, no boost. *sigh* Guess I'll need to save for a pair of 4061's for those cases.

Or, perhaps I could use a more advanced audio editing app like Ferrite, and have a soft limiter engaged?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Popmarter on December 28, 2017, 05:01:54 PM
checking in..
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on December 30, 2017, 01:20:55 PM
Does anybody else feel that a switchable -10dB pad would be a useful addition to the D:vice app? I do, mostly because I use it with a pair of 4060's, so I'm worried about very loud sources. (occasional metal shows)

Perhaps if we write short reviews of the app and request this... :)

Personally, I would prefer a pad rather than a limiter.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: down2earthlandscaper on December 30, 2017, 07:57:24 PM
Thanks for those iTunes instructions! I'll try those today.

Also, I found that the Audioshare app lets you select 96K sampling rate, but I haven't tested it yet to see if there is any content up there. :)

I captured an amazing Steely Dan tribute band on Friday night: DPA 4060's > D:vice > Motiv app > Magix Sound Forge 11 pro > iZotope Ozone > FLAC

It's currently seeing on Dime.
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=609269

I can stick that somewhere else if there are any rabid fans of The Dan here who aren't members at Dime.

Not an overly loud band, and I was running at 30% (+9dB). I hit 0 a few times, although the clipping wasn't audible. Interesting... is this thing hard to clip, similar to the Sony PCM-10's line in?

Anyway, I'm now wondering if I'll be able to capture loud things like metal bands, running the D:vice at 0%, no boost. *sigh* Guess I'll need to save for a pair of 4061's for those cases.

Or, perhaps I could use a more advanced audio editing app like Ferrite, and have a soft limiter engaged?

Which Steely Dan cover band? We've got a great one here in Seattle - "Nearly Dan". I don't know how to use bit torrent but I could dropbox or Wetransfer if you'd be interested in checking them out.

-John
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on January 09, 2018, 08:32:27 AM
Joining the team on this one.  Just picked up a pair of 4060s with a d:vice and some XLR adapters. Need to find some reasonably priced microdot extension cables for open taping. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on January 09, 2018, 09:05:07 AM
^ Try CD International (https://www.cdint.com/catalog/category/Cables).  Not exactly cheap, but much cheaper than the DPA versions and there are lots of options...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dactylus on January 09, 2018, 09:13:28 AM
^ Try CD International (https://www.cdint.com/catalog/category/Cables).  Not exactly cheap, but much cheaper than the DPA versions and there are lots of options...
^
Thanks for the link Aaron!

I'm also in the market for a pair of reasonably priced microdot extension cables for open taping.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on January 09, 2018, 09:20:28 AM
^ Try CD International (https://www.cdint.com/catalog/category/Cables).  Not exactly cheap, but much cheaper than the DPA versions and there are lots of options...
^
Thanks for the link Aaron!

I'm also in the market for a pair of reasonably priced microdot extension cables for open taping.
Thanks as well Aaron. OT a little here, but beatkilla sent me a link to a fleaBay listing that I was interested in but couldn't do it because she's not shipping to Canada.  Shared this with you.  :)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on January 09, 2018, 09:21:09 AM
Photos of their cables here- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175358.msg2179858#msg2179858

Choose male 10-32 termination (microdot) at one end and female 10-32 at the other for an extension cable.
(Just posted the same in team DPA thread.)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on January 12, 2018, 10:42:09 AM
 A very minor point due to it's size, but has anyone tested a metal detector with one of these + 4060/1's? Just wondering if it's best to just set aside in the tray with the phone - or if you can keep on you.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on January 17, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
HI folks.

Have any of you used the D:vice successfully with an adapter that allows you to connect both the D:vice and a set of non-Apple earbuds to your iPhone?

I recently upgraded to an iPhone 8 Plus, so of course lost the traditional 1/8" jack. :( I picked up a Belkin adapter that plugs into the Lightning port on the phone and provides female 1/8" and Lightning connections, thinking this would let me monitor through earbuds when setting up the D:vice. but when I use it in conjunction with the D:vice, the D:vice app cannot find the D:vice. It defaults to thinking I want to use the phone's internal mic.

Plugging the D:vice into the phone directly causes it to be recognized again.

I'm more than a little pissed, given the price of this tiny Belkin accessory.

Do I need to try bluetooth earbuds next?

Will the D:vice still use the D:vice, even if said earbuds contain a microphone?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on January 17, 2018, 06:25:06 PM
I think the Belkin cable is for analog out to a headset via a 1/8 and power input to the phone via lightning. the lightning connector cant be used for data input. This sounds consistent with what you found. I have not seen any equivalent which does pass data. Bluetooth may be the only way to what you want, although I havent actually tried something like that
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Duncan on January 18, 2018, 03:36:33 PM
HI folks.

Will the D:vice still use the D:vice, even if said earbuds contain a microphone?

I think as long as you plug the d:vice in last after the headphones are going so the d:vice is the last thing to be connected
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on February 05, 2018, 08:34:32 PM
Here's a big band jazz show I recorded last week. A little EQ and compression, but mostly glorious 24/48. 4060's, D:vice, iPhone 8+.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/oc82vd
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kindms on February 08, 2018, 04:55:16 PM
Here's a big band jazz show I recorded last week. A little EQ and compression, but mostly glorious 24/48. 4060's, D:vice, iPhone 8+.
https://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/oc82vd

Thanks for sharing this. It sounds excellent.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: wonderful on February 10, 2018, 06:58:52 AM
Does anybody else feel that a switchable -10dB pad would be a useful addition to the D:vice app? I do, mostly because I use it with a pair of 4060's, so I'm worried about very loud sources. (occasional metal shows)

Perhaps if we write short reviews of the app and request this... :)

Personally, I would prefer a pad rather than a limiter.

Yes I have to same question and use the d:vice with 4060's on iOS. Is there a solution available to record loud sources?  I have the levels on the DPA app at +0.0 dB. With the iOS apps I have used I can't reduce volume: RØDE app, MetaRecorder, MOTIV. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on February 11, 2018, 11:37:31 PM
I just filed a bug report with DPA through their Facebook page. A guy named Steve seems to respond to things there in a day or two.

Anyway, after installing iOS 11.3 public beta 2, I can't get more than one mic to show up in the D:vice app. Or rather, the last time I used the app and things worked, I only had one 4060 connected. Now, with the latest public beta, I can't attach the second mic and change to stereo, sum, etc. That's what I get for enrolling my primary device in a beta program I suppose.

Related: I discovered this last night, on the way to catching the excelent Canadian band Big Wreck. It would have turned out perfect, too, I was dead center, in a hall with nice dry acoustics. FUUUUCK! Is there a Murphy's Law of taping? No matter how simple the rig, something will fuck up?

Always, always, always, check your gear before leaving home. I should know this, but have been tought this lesson yet again. LOL

Has anyone tried the D:vice and a couple of mics into their Windows 10 PC? I gather the D:vice is a class compliant audio device, so it should just work when you plug it in.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on February 12, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
I have a Windows 7 setup, the d:vice worked fine with that using Audacity as the recording program.   I will be getting a portable Windows 10 setup (Ockel Sirius A) in a few weeks, and intend to test that out. 

Glad I have resisted going from IoS 10 to 11!  Let us know what happens!

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on February 12, 2018, 01:14:48 PM
As far as I know, things still work fine on the latest iOS 11 release, 11.2.5 I believe? It's the latest 11.3 public beta where there's an issue, at least with my iPhone.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on February 12, 2018, 01:54:40 PM
As far as I know, things still work fine on the latest iOS 11 release, 11.2.5 I believe? It's the latest 11.3 public beta where there's an issue, at least with my iPhone.

11.2.5 works fine. This is why I stopped being involved in the public beta program. When the iOS 10 beta was issued, I had nothing but problems with apps so I only update to official releases nowadays.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on February 14, 2018, 09:11:20 PM
Anyone seen this on sale / cheaper than the $660 or so it seems to be anywhere?

Definitely planning to sell some other gear and take the plunge.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on February 14, 2018, 09:49:44 PM
Anyone seen this on sale / cheaper than the $660 or so it seems to be anywhere?

Definitely planning to sell some other gear and take the plunge.

Unfortunately DPA stuff is pretty much sold at the SRP and that's about it.  I was shocked when you mentioned US$660 as it was going for around US$630 not long ago.  You might be able to find one on eBay as they show up from time to time but it's a really niche product.  Might be worth emailing some of the smaller companies to see if they can do any better on the price since it's pretty much advertised at the SRP.

Best of luck.  It's a nifty little box.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on March 15, 2018, 12:44:22 PM
Has anybody tried this new four-way clip from DPA for the 4060/61's? Sounds like just the thing for tapers!

SCM0013-B
4-Way Clip for d:screet™ Miniature Microphones:
https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/4-way-clip-for-dscreet
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 15, 2018, 04:45:25 PM
I've not, but it looks like a standard lavalier clip.  Pretty much the same as what one finds with Countryman B3.  Could be useful for clipping to the outside of clothing, a hat brim, maybe glasses.  Not designed for use use under clothing like the DPA concealers are, and also how the boundary mounts can be used (as an "off-label" application).
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on March 15, 2018, 05:03:47 PM
I used these the other night and really liked them. Mics are very secure, and well positioned by the clips.

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/holder-for-dscreet-omnidirectional-microphones

Used the d:vice for the first time on Tuesday, it's pretty freaking great.

http://detroitlightning.tumblr.com/post/171881000434/earthless-kikagaku-moyo-jjuujjuu-grog-shop
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on March 19, 2018, 01:27:15 PM
Ok, I'm blind, so I can't see pictures of the various mounting options in use. I can only read the text descriptions.
I posted about the SCM0013-B four-way clip. Someone then posted about the D:screte holder, SCM0017.

I like to attach the mics to my shoulders, with cables running down the inside back of my sweater, jacket, etc.

Which of those two accessories would you guys recommend I use for that application?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 19, 2018, 03:45:45 PM
Okay, I just checked out on-line photos of both SCM0013-B and SCM0017.

Both are alligator type clips with spring-loaded jaws which clamp onto clothing or whatever, appropriate for mounting to the edge of something like a collar or hat-brim, but probably not appropriate for mounting under clothing.

SCM0013-B places the mic parallel to, and basically flat up against, the surface to which the clamp is attached.  If attached to a jacket lavalier the mic faces directly upwards, downwards, or sideways when snapped into various slots in a piece attached to the upper jaw.

SCM0017 is a similar clamp, but angles the mic out away from the surface to which the clamp is attached, at what appears to be a 45 degree angle, intended to avoid the mic grid rubbing up against the fabric.  I suspect the grid would protrude about a half inch or so from the fabric surface to which the clamp is attached.  It looks like it is intended only for that microphone mounting position, but like the 13-B version it also has a feature on the end of the bottom clamp jaw into which the cable can be snapped to form a strain-relief loop.  One could probably use that alone for a parallel to the surface mic clamping arrangement without securing a full cable loop at the clamp.  That cable snap feature runs across the end of the lower jaw and is basically the same as the multiple "cable snap" slots on the top jaw of the 13-B.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 19, 2018, 03:54:14 PM
Additional info to the post above-  That 45 degree mic angle on the SCM0017 points toward the open end of the clamp jaw and away from the clamped surface.  So if you were to clamp it to a piece of paper and lay the paper down on a desk, the mic would be pointing across the page and upward at a 45 degree angle.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Cheesecadet on March 19, 2018, 09:00:16 PM
Ok, I'm blind, so I can't see pictures of the various mounting options in use. I can only read the text descriptions.
I posted about the SCM0013-B four-way clip. Someone then posted about the D:screte holder, SCM0017.

I like to attach the mics to my shoulders, with cables running down the inside back of my sweater, jacket, etc.

Which of those two accessories would you guys recommend I use for that application?

Gaff tape the mics to your shoulders and call it a day.  Keeps it low profile and they do not move even if you're groovin' a bit.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on March 19, 2018, 09:09:36 PM
Thanks for the info, guys! Much appreciated.

Yeah... tape is the cheapest option as well... decisions decisions...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on March 26, 2018, 09:22:21 AM
Finally got out last night to use this as a backup to the main rig and found a couple of nasty surprises:

1/ noticed when I connect the microdot firmly, it shorts out. I've read about "over tightening" being an issue with the connectors in the past; not sure if it's with the mic cable or the d:vice itself so I need to do a little more work with this.  As long as it's snug (and not tight), I've got a perfect second connection.  Even at snug, I don't see how it would disconnect.

2/ while recording, I made the mistake of adjusting levels in the Shure software and not the DPA d:vice software. I noticed audible "dropouts" albeit they're pretty brief.  I'm guessing I really should've used the d:vice panel for this instead.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on March 26, 2018, 01:51:33 PM
I am a little confused about when/if it's necessary to use the D:vice app at all.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
I am a little confused about when/if it's necessary to use the D:vice app at all.

For recording into a phone in place of a dedicated audio recorder.
The most compact high-quality rig available.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on March 26, 2018, 02:17:36 PM
I am a little confused about when/if it's necessary to use the D:vice app at all.

For recording into a phone in place of a dedicated audio recorder.
The most compact high-quality rig available.

Hah, I ned to change my question. I have a D:Vice and used it to record a show using MetaRecorder, but I was able to set the levels in MetaRecorder. My question was meant to be why do I need to use the D:vice app as part of the process?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2018, 02:37:23 PM
Ah, I missed the app part.  I'll leave that to those with hands on experience who are actually using it.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on March 26, 2018, 02:39:15 PM
I am a little confused about when/if it's necessary to use the D:vice app at all.

As I posted earlier today, using the suggested Shure MOTIV app, I noticed little audio drops where the levels were adjusted.  That said, that's why I think people were suggesting doing the level adjustment in the actual d:vice app.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on March 30, 2018, 08:35:18 PM
Anyone updated to iOS 11.3 yet? Any issues?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on March 30, 2018, 09:02:47 PM
I leave my 6s on OS 10 so can't help there.

Has anyone experimented with shorter lightning cables than the one included with the d:vice?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beenjammin on March 30, 2018, 10:43:31 PM
Has anybody tried this new four-way clip from DPA for the 4060/61's? Sounds like just the thing for tapers!

SCM0013-B
4-Way Clip for d:screet™ Miniature Microphones:
https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/4-way-clip-for-dscreet

I picked up two of these to run AB. They replace the older clips whose springs have given out. They're shorter than the ones that shipped with my SMK packages (I don't know the model number) and they seems to clamp tighter. So far, so good. At 21.00 USD each, I hope they last longer than the other ones. But really, the 4060 are such lovely mikes, I can forgive DPA for such expensive accessories.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on March 31, 2018, 04:07:56 PM
Surprised with no comments about my findings above, but I'll add to what I initially thought.

I compared my recording in a smallish room - maybe 45' wide x 60' deep where I was sitting in the corner closest to the soundboard and my buddy was shooting video and running my old Schoeps MK41's at the "opposite corner." When I listened back to the recordings, I actually liked the 4060's in the room MUCH better than the MK41's, however, I did notice that the levels on the Shure software don't necessarily reflect what is being recorded: despite showing my peaks hitting around -3dB (which is "red" on the app), the recording is clipped left, right, and centre which means the mics do run hotter than the app is describing.  Perhaps that's the noticeable audio hits I was talking about in the fact that I was brickwalling.  Disappointing that this was on the first attempt but I'm very happy with the "learning curve."  It was the first show I actually recorded in just over three years.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on April 01, 2018, 03:40:56 PM
NOOOOO!

It appears I have a dead 4060!!

I was running the various public betas of iOS 11.3, and thought that the D:vice app only showing Mono available, no stereo or dual modes, was a software bug. 

But, iOS 11.3 has come out, and I can't get audio from one of my 4060's.  I connect it by itself, and nothing... no sound in the Shure Motiv app on my iPhone, and no sound under Windows 10 when I attach the D:vice to my PC.  The other 4060 I have works fine in both situations.

I doubt the D:vice recognizes individual mics, right? I don't have anything else with a micro dot connector to experiment with.

Fiddling with the connector, and wiggling the cable at various points along its length does not give me intermittant sound. I get... nothing, zero, zilch.

Anybody know someone in Canada who can troubleshoot and fix these mics? I want to avoid a package crossing the US border if at all possible. 

Twice in the past year when buying used items from people in the US, Canada customs have charged me various fees anyway, no matter how the items were declaired as used, as a gift, etc. So, I'd really like to find someone who can service a 4060 in Canada, if at all possible.

*sigh* this probably messes up taping Dweezil Zappa later this month...

*grumble*

Yes I've emailed DPA, but the person I've delt with before, René Mørch, is away on vacation until Thursday.

All suggestions gratefully received, and Happy Easter if you celebrate it.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on April 02, 2018, 12:14:59 PM
Rene from DPA got back to me quickly and directed me to www.gerraudio.com. so, I'll contact them and let you guys know how things proceed.

I had also asked DPA if they had any plans to implement a -10dB or more pad feature in their app, and they said no. *sigh* so, guess I'll be looking for used 4061's to handle louder shows.

Has anyone here tried recording something 115dBSPL, such as a loud metal show, with 4060's and the D:vice app gain control set to minimum? Did things clip?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on April 03, 2018, 02:21:20 PM
Rene from DPA got back to me quickly and directed me to www.gerraudio.com. so, I'll contact them and let you guys know how things proceed.

I had also asked DPA if they had any plans to implement a -10dB or more pad feature in their app, and they said no. *sigh* so, guess I'll be looking for used 4061's to handle louder shows.

Has anyone here tried recording something 115dBSPL, such as a loud metal show, with 4060's and the D:vice app gain control set to minimum? Did things clip?

I taped Earthless (pretty loud psych-rock band) in a club w/ 4060s > D:vice. It was pretty loud, and I set levels to no gain. Just barely made it...there were some peaks that went over, but nothing audible IMO. '

http://detroitlightning.tumblr.com/post/171881000434/earthless-kikagaku-moyo-jjuujjuu-grog-shop
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on April 03, 2018, 04:56:35 PM
I'm filling out a request for service form at Gerraudio's Website, and there's a field for serial number. Uh, does this tiny tiny 4060 mic have a serial number on it somewhere?

I'm blind, so before I go ask a handy sighted person to look for one... does it even exist? If so, it would have to be really tiny printing...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on April 03, 2018, 04:58:38 PM
I'm filling out a request for service form at Gerraudio's Website, and there's a field for serial number. Uh, does this tiny tiny 4060 mic have a serial number on it somewhere?

I'm blind, so before I go ask a handy sighted person to look for one... does it even exist? If so, it would have to be really tiny printing...

There should be white stickers with numbers on them (4061 have red labels/stickers) unless they were shortened.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on April 03, 2018, 06:11:59 PM
My issue is the opposite.  I had been using the MMA6000/Sony D50 alternating with a Sonosax MiniR82, the MMA6000 had up to 40 dB gain and the Sonosax I think around 60 dB.  The d:vice has only 30 dB max, which is plenty for 4060s but often not enough when I use 4081s (with EQ) for quiet chamber music.  Luckily the signal path seems clean enough so even a 12 dB boost in post is not a biggie.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 03, 2018, 10:09:11 PM
I'm filling out a request for service form at Gerraudio's Website, and there's a field for serial number. Uh, does this tiny tiny 4060 mic have a serial number on it somewhere?

I'm blind, so before I go ask a handy sighted person to look for one... does it even exist? If so, it would have to be really tiny printing...

There should be white stickers with numbers on them (4061 have red labels/stickers) unless they were shortened.

The serial number is not on the microphone or microdot connector but printed on a small "cuff" wraped around the mic cable, cloer to the microdot end.  With 4060 the cuff is white, with 4061 it is red.  It's about an inch long or so and not much thicker but stiffer than the cable.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on April 04, 2018, 10:15:44 AM
Awesome! Thanks guys!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: morst on April 05, 2018, 04:02:57 AM
DPA is announcing a new product on a webinar... right now!

Live on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp7292JI7ew

what will it be?

IT MUST BE A MUTE SWITCH? The audio started off with greensleeves, but then went dead when the speaker showed up on screen!!!  :lol:

OK he said it will be a preamp

It's called Core, and is said to improve performance at extreme SPL. It's been part of D-Screet since november and now is being added to the 4099 D-vote mics. All new mics will be the core series.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 05, 2018, 09:11:55 AM
Anybody know of anyone using the Core versions of the 4060/4061?

Wondering how audible the change is and under what conditions, presumably significant as the SPL limit is approached.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on April 05, 2018, 09:28:17 AM
I have been using a pair of core 4060s since January.  I do not record high SPL but was hoping that the reduction in distortion at lower levels would make a difference.  And I'm fairly crazy, did I miss that?  While I have not done a direct comparison, I do not hear any noticeable improvement, but I might try a core version of the directional mics as well.  Because I'm crazy.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 05, 2018, 11:08:39 AM
Aren't we all?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: capnhook on April 05, 2018, 03:07:57 PM
Aren't we all?

I called dibs first... :yack:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Rick on April 11, 2018, 03:00:55 PM
Anyone have wand experience with the d:VICE and 4061s?

9/10 probably wouldn't even notice if you're holding them with your phone. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on April 11, 2018, 04:01:46 PM
^ I run mine with 4061s and the Shure Motiv app (DPA app run first in background).

No issues thus far, although I haven't had many outings with this setup.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on April 15, 2018, 04:15:17 PM
New issue last night...

Connected everything and had levels on the dvice app - but when I went to the shure motiv app to record it gave me the "plug in a digital motiv device to access mic setup" message - which allowed me to go to record, and did actually record. But since I wasn't sure of the settings I had in the shure app, I just scrapped it (I was running another rig as well).

I can adjust with my mv88 and the settings will stay, but it's a bit disconcerting.

Anyone else experience this? What apps are everyone using to actually record at this point? I usually go 2448.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on April 15, 2018, 04:34:39 PM
Unrelated to the post above, but I casually updated the Motiv app the other day to v2.1.6 and just tested the setup again.

Now, with the DPA app setup and running in the background as normal, when the Motiv app is opened only one channel is registered, but it is one of the external (DPA) mics.  When I select the "My Recordings" tab on the bottom right of the screen and go back to the middle "Recording" tab, it registers both channels.  I have repeated this multiple times.   :shrug: 

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on April 18, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
With one mic out for repair, I taped Dweezil Zappa in a large club the other night. With gain in the D:vice app at minimum and the bass filter engaged, I peaked several times at -3dB or so. I'm worried about the upcoming Slayer/Testament/Lamb of God/Anthrax/Behemoth show, even though it's outdoors.

For those of you in Canada, Gerr Audio www.gerr.com are excelent. The guy servicing my mic commented that they use a dissecting microscope to ensure that new connections are clean, and that it seemed a lot more like vascular surgery than electronics repair working on those thin thin cables. :)

Hopefully I can find someone with 4061's for sale. It's that, or sell my 4060's and get a pair of the 4060's with "CORE technology", which apparently allow for a bit higher headroom and lower distortion. How they pack circuitry in there is beyond me.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on April 18, 2018, 02:42:37 PM
With one mic out for repair, I taped Dweezil Zappa in a large club the other night. With gain in the D:vice app at minimum and the bass filter engaged, I peaked several times at -3dB or so. I'm worried about the upcoming Slayer/Testament/Lamb of God/Anthrax/Behemoth show, even though it's outdoors.

For those of you in Canada, Gerr Audio www.gerr.com are excelent. The guy servicing my mic commented that they use a dissecting microscope to ensure that new connections are clean, and that it seemed a lot more like vascular surgery than electronics repair working on those thin thin cables. :)

Hopefully I can find someone with 4061's for sale. It's that, or sell my 4060's and get a pair of the 4060's with "CORE technology", which apparently allow for a bit higher headroom and lower distortion. How they pack circuitry in there is beyond me.

+1 for GERR as well. I'm currently dealing with them as well and not having to send the gear back to the States is a godsend. So far, I've been impressed in my dealings with them.

As for the DZ show, that venue can get real loud, fast. How far back were you from the stacks?  Trying to get an idea for future shows if I'm in the same boat.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on April 18, 2018, 05:49:37 PM
Why not have an attenuator cable built with -12 or -20db.I think that will be alot cheaper than also buying 4061.
As much as i do not like dealing with coresound i bet he can make it for you.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on April 18, 2018, 05:51:06 PM
Why not have an attenuator cable built with -12 or -20db.I think that will be alot cheaper than also buying 4061.
As much as i do not like dealing with coresound i bet he can make it for you.

Are you thinking about an attenuator cable using microdots in between the 4060's and the d:vice?  Don't know if that would be feasible or not.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on April 18, 2018, 06:13:54 PM
Why not have an attenuator cable built with -12 or -20db.I think that will be alot cheaper than also buying 4061.
As much as i do not like dealing with coresound i bet he can make it for you.

Are you thinking about an attenuator cable using microdots in between the 4060's and the d:vice?  Don't know if that would be feasible or not.

Yes that what i was thinking but im no cable builder.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CM2218B00--dpa-cm2218b00-microdot-extension-cable-5.9-foot?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz4acz-vE2gIVQcDICh33YQnDEAQYASABEgKsV_D_BwE

If you order 2 of these you at least have the parts :shrug:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on April 18, 2018, 06:37:25 PM
Why not have an attenuator cable built with -12 or -20db.I think that will be alot cheaper than also buying 4061.
As much as i do not like dealing with coresound i bet he can make it for you.

I would assume the problem is that the microphone capsule itself cant handle the SPL and that all you would be doing is attenuating an already distorted signal...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beatkilla on April 18, 2018, 06:42:06 PM
Why not have an attenuator cable built with -12 or -20db.I think that will be alot cheaper than also buying 4061.
As much as i do not like dealing with coresound i bet he can make it for you.

I would assume the problem is that the microphone capsule itself cant handle the SPL and that all you would be doing is attenuating an already distorted signal...

Maybe so,but i think the max spl for the 4060 is 134db so that would be a very loud show.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on April 19, 2018, 01:42:40 PM
Unrelated to the post above, but I casually updated the Motiv app the other day to v2.1.6 and just tested the setup again.

Now, with the DPA app setup and running in the background as normal, when the Motiv app is opened only one channel is registered, but it is one of the external (DPA) mics.  When I select the "My Recordings" tab on the bottom right of the screen and go back to the middle "Recording" tab, it registers both channels.  I have repeated this multiple times.   :shrug:

I think we're having the same issue - I played around with it the other night at a show, and think that the shure app is recording everything fine, it's just disconcerting since its hard to tell what the hell is going on in the app. But looking at the waveform/files now, they're 2448 and look ok.

after messing with the rode app, I think I'll just keep using the shure app instead...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: madman on April 27, 2018, 06:27:43 PM
I've been gone from here for a long time, I want to tape a few upcoming shows and found out the battery on my 20 year old Sharp MD recorder went to the great gig in the sky. I'm excited to see this DPA device, I plan to pick it up and a refurbed ipod for taping.  I will miss having a physical minidisc of shows, though.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on April 27, 2018, 06:44:58 PM
I've been gone from here for a long time, I want to tape a few upcoming shows and found out the battery on my 20 year old Sharp MD recorder went to the great gig in the sky. I'm excited to see this DPA device, I plan to pick it up and a refurbed ipod for taping.  I will miss having a physical minidisc of shows, though.

You won't miss having to deal with disc flips or real time transfers depending on the deck you had.  There's something to be said about the d:vice but it is expensive for what it is.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: madman on April 27, 2018, 08:04:30 PM
You won't miss having to deal with disc flips or real time transfers depending on the deck you had.  There's something to be said about the d:vice but it is expensive for what it is.
I think I only ever taped one show that was longer than a single minidisc, but yeah the transferring was not fun. I'm thinking a 32GB ipod touch will get me where I need to be, I just need to find my 4061s and I'll be good to go.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on April 27, 2018, 08:14:44 PM
You won't miss having to deal with disc flips or real time transfers depending on the deck you had.  There's something to be said about the d:vice but it is expensive for what it is.
I think I only ever taped one show that was longer than a single minidisc, but yeah the transferring was not fun. I'm thinking a 32GB ipod touch will get me where I need to be, I just need to find my 4061s and I'll be good to go.

Just make sure your 4061s have microdot ends.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: madman on April 27, 2018, 08:18:42 PM
They do, I have a MMA6000 and whatever the microdot battery pack is called, MPS something or other. It's been years since I've touched this stuff.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on April 30, 2018, 11:15:46 AM
Fixed mic returned from Gerr.
Also, got a pair of 4061's in the Yardsale for a good price.

Also picked up a couple of those mic mount (clips), SCM0017. They seem to be the best way to go for attaching to my shoulders etc.
The rig is coming together nicely, and I'll really be testing it near the end of May, for Slayer, with openers Anthrax, Lamb of God, Testament, and Behemoth. A real test of both the high SPL handling, and the battery life of my relatively new iPhone 8 Plus.

Question: The Shure Motiv app lets me capture in 24/48. Is there any reason to consider 24/96? I can barely hear 17K now, when I run experiments wiht a tone generator, so I'm not sold on the idea of capturing frequencies beyond roughly 20kHz.

I've seen some gear act more linearly, behave better, in the audible frequency range, when run at higher sampling rates. Any chance this might happen with the D:vice, or would I just be wasting bits and probably more battery life?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 30, 2018, 11:49:57 AM
Congrats on the successful repair.

You'll get differing opinions with sample rate, from some who are more adamant about defending their position than others.  Personally I'm fine with 24/48.  For me the primary issue in making the choice is simply one of reducing the archival storage space burden. Of the couple of tests I made using my recording gear, made with classical acoustic music in an very good acoustic hall, I could not reliably detect an audible difference between 48 and 96kHz sampling rates.  That made my decision to stick with recording at 48kHz that much easier.  I understand the arguments about equipment linearity, Nyquist filtering, and all that.  The d:Vice is a newer generation than the Tascam DR2d I used for my personal confirmation listening tests, and presumably uses better quality filtering and converters.   Another argument which I have not tested personally is that some post-processing manipulations such as EQ may benefit from working with higher sample rate files.  If upsampling the 48kHz file after recording to do such work at a higher sample rate (some EQ's do this internally) is effectively equivalent or not with regards to that is yet another question.

The bottom line is that for me recording at 96kHz is simply not worth doubling the needed archival storage space.  It's mostly a practicality thing.   I'm also always recording 4 sometimes 6 or more channels, so that double size storage burden would be again doubled or tripled over the storage space needed for 2-channel. 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 22, 2018, 02:17:01 AM
i saw someone mentioned using an android tablet

can it be used with android phone (yes i realize you wont have access to the app)

if it does work as an audio device on android phone can you pop it on an iphone to use the app to make settings and do they "stick" when disconnected from the iphone?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on May 22, 2018, 09:45:58 AM
I have successfully tested it on an Android tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab S3) and phone (LG V30).  Obviously you need a device with USB C input/output to power the d:vice.  I used USB Audio Recorder Pro.  This was just a quick test to see that it worked, I have not tried setting volume levels.  Since the screen stays on, I am nervous that power usage will be high and an unhappy touch might shut the recording down, but these problems might be solvable.  I asked DPA support if there was any reason not to use Android or ways to for sure lock the volume settings on the d:vice, but got no answer.

I am VERY happy with the quality of 24/96 recordings I am getting with a dedicated iPhone 6S+. 

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on May 22, 2018, 05:15:29 PM
DPA just reminded me that iOS gives precedence to the most recently-connected device. So, if your device doesn't have a headphone jack, and you must therefore monitor over bluetooth earbuds, Airpods etc. be sure to connect the D:Vice last, after the earbuds.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 23, 2018, 02:12:21 AM
I have successfully tested it on an Android tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab S3) and phone (LG V30).  Obviously you need a device with USB C input/output to power the d:vice.

so phones with microusb are SOL?

and every usb C phone has what it takes to power +5V?

is the d:vice microusb, so you are using a male usb-c to male micro cable with the d:vice?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on May 23, 2018, 09:16:49 AM
so phones with microusb are SOL?

and every usb C phone has what it takes to power +5V?

is the d:vice microusb, so you are using a male usb-c to male micro cable with the d:vice?

The d:vice end is micro-usb, so I had to purchase a micro-usb (male) to usb-c (male) active cable to get the android phone to work (the d:vice comes only with micr-usb to Apple and micro-usb to usb-a cables).  Chrysler linked to the correct cable earlier in the thread.  His Sony Android phone works, but with some limitations (not clear if they are hardware related or just come from the app software for recording).  My LG V30 will do 24/96 with the USB recorder pro app.  While I would guess that most usb C phones would provide the right power spec, I'm not sure about other compatibility issues, and this might be why DPA won't comment.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 25, 2018, 02:44:15 AM
ok i got an iphone today

installed dpa,rode, and voice recorder pro apps.

will be getting my d:vice just in time for the show so ill be winging it. whats a good gain level to setup the 4061s at for a medium loud rock show
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on May 25, 2018, 10:04:04 AM
I do quieter stuff, acoustic classical, with 4060s and 4081s.  Levels for 4061s should be set about the same as for 4081s and about 10 dB higher than for 4060s.  For the loudest classical stuff, up close, I set gain at about 10-12 dB for 4060s, which would translate to around 20 dB for 4061s, but don't be afraid to go low, I have added 12 dB or more in post with no problems.

If you are doing 96kHz, be sure to check that the app you are using is really giving you this and not 48kHz with all zeros at higher resolution, I got that with one app.  Big files without the extra data.  Rode (paid version) works fine (with iPhone 6s I have), and lets you shut the screen off so you won't accidently shut down recording by pushing the stop button. 

Good luck with it!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on May 25, 2018, 03:15:32 PM
So, on another tangent, I'm curious about what people here think is the best software recording tool at the moment on iOS.  I've tried the Motiv software and thought it was okay, I've used the Voice Record Pro software which is made by the same people who make Voice Record Pro 7.  Haven't had a chance to pay for (and try) the RODE recorder software.  Looking for something that seems pretty stable.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: rippleish20 on May 25, 2018, 05:00:14 PM
I used MetaRecorder the only time I've tried my D;vice so far but didn't like how you set the volume. I'm going to try motiv next time....
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 28, 2018, 02:47:34 PM
What am i doing wrong, voice record pro 7 only has options for m4a and mp3? is there a lossless option for m4a?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beenjammin on May 28, 2018, 04:06:23 PM
Might anyone be able to offer some advice regarding a specific choice of recorders for a specific purpose?

I'm a longtime 4060 in AB for nature and general ambience recordings. I'm building a dedicated 4060 rig that I can have in a bag with me at all times.

It seems like the d:vice is a perfect match for me. But I wonder if the Sound Devices MixPre3 would be better? I like that it's a dedicated recorder, and while not as small as the d:vice, it's small enough to carry around in a bag.

But what about sonic qualities? Has anyone heard both units? How does the pre -> AD of the two units compare?

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on May 28, 2018, 04:56:17 PM
So, on another tangent, I'm curious about what people here think is the best software recording tool at the moment on iOS.  I've tried the Motiv software and thought it was okay, I've used the Voice Record Pro software which is made by the same people who make Voice Record Pro 7.  Haven't had a chance to pay for (and try) the RODE recorder software.  Looking for something that seems pretty stable.

As far as I can tell, the RODE app is equivalent to burning the $5 or whatever it costs. Motiv has worked fine for me.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on May 28, 2018, 05:08:07 PM
The stock 4060s come with microdot connectors, I think that to power them with the MixPre3 you will need a pair of phantom-to-microdot converters (DAP DAD6001), each of these is about 3" long and weighs about 1.2 oz, this will add to the size of the rig.  On the other hand, the MixPre3 will give you more gain (the d:vice MMA-A is limited to 30 dB, which is fine for the quietest acoustic music but I'm not sure how quiet your nature sounds are).
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beenjammin on May 28, 2018, 05:40:40 PM
The stock 4060s come with microdot connectors, I think that to power them with the MixPre3 you will need a pair of phantom-to-microdot converters (DAP DAD6001), each of these is about 3" long and weighs about 1.2 oz, this will add to the size of the rig.  On the other hand, the MixPre3 will give you more gain (the d:vice MMA-A is limited to 30 dB, which is fine for the quietest acoustic music but I'm not sure how quiet your nature sounds are).

Thanks so much! I had anticipated the p48 to microdot converters, which do protrude. The soundscapes that I record are quiet, for sure, but I never try to boost gain so much that things sound unnatural, as it were. If the space is quiet, I'm happy to have the recording reflect this.

Aside from gain, can you you think of any other sonic sonic advantages? If you were going to record acoustic music and had access to either device, which would you go for in terms of pure sonic quality?

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on May 28, 2018, 06:08:02 PM
I have not used the MixPre3, but I have used both the SD722 and SD633.  I think the MMA-A is equal to or better than these in my experience, but the MixPre3 is a newer machine with upgraded sound.  One big advantage of the d:vice for me is the set-it-and-forget-it reliability.  I have made over 100 recordings with it over the past year, never a fail so far, some of these ran over 6 hours.  It would be harder, though, to do lots of level adjustments with it on the fly, at least with the Rode software I use (for 24/96 resolution).  But I haven't tried to do this.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: beenjammin on May 28, 2018, 09:24:21 PM
I have not used the MixPre3, but I have used both the SD722 and SD633.  I think the MMA-A is equal to or better than these in my experience, but the MixPre3 is a newer machine with upgraded sound.  One big advantage of the d:vice for me is the set-it-and-forget-it reliability.  I have made over 100 recordings with it over the past year, never a fail so far, some of these ran over 6 hours.  It would be harder, though, to do lots of level adjustments with it on the fly, at least with the Rode software I use (for 24/96 resolution).  But I haven't tried to do this.

Wow, that's very promising, given how nice the 7xx series performs.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 29, 2018, 01:47:27 AM
success!

small club and i was about 5-7 feet from the PA

i set d:vice levels to zero and voice recorder pro levels to -10 (both as low as they would go) and the 4061s were still pretty hot, peaking at up to -3.5 dbfs

is this unusual or am i missing some gain setting somewhere?

i mean it was loud but didnt seem 140 dB loud

im assuming the best setting for voice recorder pro to be "transparent" would be zero dB in that app

sorry to ask so many stupid questions i can solve myself (when i get home), im just on the road flying blind right now and have one more show i want to tape on weds
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 01, 2018, 09:19:51 PM
second run at bowery i was farther back so i set voice recorder pro levels to 0.0 dB and d:vice app to +4.0 dB gain

streamable soundcloud links

velvet underground in toronto 5 feet from the PA

tinyurl.com/aurora-vu-sc-full

bowery ballroom in nyc from the balcony

tinyurl.com/aurora-nyc-sc-full
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 08, 2018, 09:45:07 PM
started this thread from the beginning to make sure i didnt miss anything

ok, I ran the Motiv app capturing at 24/48 yesterday, and now have several 2GB files on my phone.  "Save to Camera Roll" converts the files to lossy format, which I definitely don't want to do.

Save to Dropbox takes awhile... is there a way to transfer the WAV files from my iPhone 6+ to my Windows 10 PC, preferably using the lightning cable?

heres 2 apps that can grab unadulterated files from apps without using itunes (both free)
https://www.copytrans.net/
http://www.i-funbox.com/

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 08, 2018, 09:46:19 PM
^^ I would try to trade them for a pair with microdots in the Yardsale.  Seems like there is always someone looking to go the other way.  Or even sell them and buy another pair with the 'dots.  I am sure you can get a cable made, but, personally, I would want to get rid of the 1/8" connection and have only the locking connectors.

Sending them to DPA is also a good idea, but I doubt it will be cheap...

'bout $50 each to reterminate any mics with new microdots
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 08, 2018, 09:56:41 PM
I used these the other night and really liked them. Mics are very secure, and well positioned by the clips.

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/holder-for-dscreet-omnidirectional-microphones


i like these already just looking at them

in my last endeavor i had the regular 4-way clips and was trying to be not fidgeting with the rig too much, i unclipped the mics from my hat at setbreak to hang the mics with clips over my shoulders under my shirt to be cool... they dont really clip to the cables super securely, and I picked up loose $20 clips off the floor at least three times over the course over the night
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on June 08, 2018, 10:40:28 PM
I was recording a classical guitar duo today, my main rig was a pair of Schoeps MK4 caps (CMC6xt) ORTF into an F8, very nice though the MK4s sounded a bit harsh (I normally would run MK22s).  My backup was a pair of DPA 4015s (also ORTF, though they are wide cardioids like the MK22s) > DPA MMP-GR cable > DPA d:vice MMA-A > iPhone 6S + (Rode recorder app).  I could not monitor the iPhone rig, set the DPA app gain at +26 dB (should have maxed it out at +30 dB, a very quiet group).  To match the Schoeps recording (at +42 dB on the Zoom F8 and then increased in post by 4 dB) I had to add 11 dB to the d:vice recording.

My ears, my headphones, but I went with the DPA recording for my finished product.

Gotta love the d:vice!

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Jamos on June 08, 2018, 11:01:30 PM
That's high praise!
I really hope they continue to develop the d:vice


I was recording a classical guitar duo today, my main rig was a pair of Schoeps MK4 caps (CMC6xt) ORTF into an F8, very nice though the MK4s sounded a bit harsh (I normally would run MK22s).  My backup was a pair of DPA 4015s (also ORTF, though they are wide cardioids like the MK22s) > DPA MMP-GR cable > DPA d:vice MMA-A > iPhone 6S + (Rode recorder app).  I could not monitor the iPhone rig, set the DPA app gain at +26 dB (should have maxed it out at +30 dB, a very quiet group).  To match the Schoeps recording (at +42 dB on the Zoom F8 and then increased in post by 4 dB) I had to add 11 dB to the d:vice recording.

My ears, my headphones, but I went with the DPA recording for my finished product.

Gotta love the d:vice!

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 08, 2018, 11:41:25 PM
That's high praise!

it is.. but in context its studio closemic'ing where omnis have a distinct advantage and shouldn't necessarily be translated to field recording apps
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on June 08, 2018, 11:56:41 PM
That's high praise!

it is.. but in context its studio closemic'ing where omnis have a distinct advantage and shouldn't necessarily be translated to field recording apps

I agree that a comp using MK22s would be a better one.  And one using DPA 4015s into both recording setups even better.  But I did not expect the d:vice recording (especially with the need for added gain) to be my final pick.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 09, 2018, 09:18:36 PM
listening to D&C mixlr stream right now and thinking how great the d:vice would be for streaming since the iphone treats it as a native audio device

prob pushing the limits but i wonder if it can be recorded in an app as well as streamed concurrently without buffer underruns in recording
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 12, 2018, 04:41:41 PM
just got a new iphone with 11.2.2

is updating to 11.4 a bad idea?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: morst on June 12, 2018, 07:06:18 PM
just got a new iphone with 11.2.2

is updating to 11.4 a bad idea?
I put 11.4 on an iPad and have not heard any complaints from the child who uses it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think it's got some good security upgrades over previous OS, especially if you are paranoid.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: ycoop on June 12, 2018, 07:30:12 PM
just got a new iphone with 11.2.2

is updating to 11.4 a bad idea?

There’s been some reports of issues with battery life after updating to 11.4.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 12, 2018, 09:43:05 PM
thanks for the feedback guys
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 14, 2018, 01:16:00 AM
for anybody looking for a dedicated iphone there are $50 refurb SEs on walmart.com. (well $85 and comes with a $35 prepaid phone card)

https://www.walmart.com/co/Refurbished-Straight-Talk-iPhone-SE-with-Airtime/945066075?u1=7cb3040e6f9111e8b7432e969d48dfac0INT&oid=223073.1&wmlspartner=UbUihDh2awY&sourceid=23672363131351076117&affillinktype=10&veh=aff

$50 for a bit bucket with a 4K camera that does a ton of other things is a no brainer, esp with the size and build of the SE
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 24, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
this Apogee Meta recorder app works as well:

http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/metarecorder

has some slick tricks to master/slave up to 4 devices via wifi. not sure if it locks timecode somehow

it has additional features to control apogee/senn devices like mke2, mk4 digital, ambeo binaural headset, duet, quartet, etc
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on June 24, 2018, 05:44:59 PM
has some slick tricks to master/slave up to 4 devices. (bluetooth i guess) not sure if it locks timecode somehow

That is interesting.

Quote
Apogee MetaRecorder is a revolutionary audio recording app for iPhone/ iPad that offers linked recording, tagging and organizing of audio on up to 4 iOS devices.

- Master-Satellite Link of up to 4 iOS devices, all controlled from a single Master device
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 24, 2018, 06:53:45 PM
i dunno if it needs the apogee/senn devices to do that

i snagged some of those ambeo in ear binaurals so ill see what it can do

when it comes to iphone recording as far as an (almost) all in one, its not stealthy but the apogee duet is pretty feature and spec-rich for $500

that app might be able to do run a section rig with the duet and wifi control FOB rig with lavs or something else. imagine being FOB with your buddy setting levels from somewhere else
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on July 05, 2018, 11:24:04 AM
Okay, did some digging around in the thread and want to make sure I'm looking at this right.  Last time, I think I had gain up in the DPA app _AND_ in the Shure Motiv app which caused brickwalling even though I wasn't clipping.

Confirming best practice: Set levels to zero in DPA d:vice app _first_ and then adjust in the Shure Motiv app?

Thanks all.  Two shows -- tonight and tomorrow.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dynamicalories on July 05, 2018, 11:38:54 AM
Okay, did some digging around in the thread and want to make sure I'm looking at this right.  Last time, I think I had gain up in the DPA app _AND_ in the Shure Motiv app which caused brickwalling even though I wasn't clipping.

Confirming best practice: Set levels to zero in DPA d:vice app _first_ and then adjust in the Shure Motiv app?

Thanks all.  Two shows -- tonight and tomorrow.

I would set both pretty low for a loud show (though zero seems excessively low). I've found my levels after the fact to be slightly higher than they show on the app when you're recording.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: adrianf74 on July 05, 2018, 11:57:47 AM
Thanks. Tonight's show is at a venue that holds about 3500 and isn't terribly loud due to the demographic. Unfortunately no opening act so I'm gonna be guessing levels going in.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kindms on July 06, 2018, 07:28:19 AM
i dunno if it needs the apogee/senn devices to do that

i snagged some of those ambeo in ear binaurals so ill see what it can do

when it comes to iphone recording as far as an (almost) all in one, its not stealthy but the apogee duet is pretty feature and spec-rich for $500

that app might be able to do run a section rig with the duet and wifi control FOB rig with lavs or something else. imagine being FOB with your buddy setting levels from somewhere else

have you had any time to play with those ? was looking at them awhile back
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 08, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
the ambeos i got from ebay had a janky cable so they missed red rocks unfortunately. but senn is honoring the warranty even though im not OG purchaser because all of them are less than 2 years old, so ill prob have them in a week or two. i have a charlie hunter trio show coming up next month so that would be a good test for those.

im super sold on the d:vice tho. flawless all weekend at um red rocks and there was a new system (according to KB their mgr/ex FOH). it sounded amazing top to bottom. my 4061s from row 2 sound as good as the section tapes imo.. usually its boomy as hell down there. i didnt expect to pull good tapes was just honing my  >:D skills in a safe environment where i wont get tossed. big perm had my 4Vs up in the safe zone

I wanted to share a lucky coincidence that you guys would find useful. Ive been using the case from my etymotic headphones which fits the mics and d:vice perfectly, i just went online to order another. easy pass thru if you call it headphones and a headphone amp

https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/accessories/cases/er38-65.html

price is right at only $4.20

its got a little mesh pocket inside for clips and windscreens as well

heres a larger one that you can maybe put your whole phone in with all kind of nice pockets

https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/accessories/cases/er38-65d.html

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on July 09, 2018, 08:29:08 PM
Just want to confirm...some folks have gotten this thing to work with Android at 24/48, correct?

Thinking about buying the one in the YS, but really would prefer not to have to buy an iPod Touch.

If it does work can someone give me a quick rundown on what apps I need? I do have USB Audio Recorder already.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 09, 2018, 08:49:37 PM
it was reported to work with some androids with USB-C, read back thru this thread

refurb 32 gb iphone SEs are $50 though.....a steal for a dedicated recorder that does so much more

just make sure that what you will be taping is a match for those 4060s. at zero gain on D-vice with 4061s, loud rock shows are peaking above -6db on my recorder. those ones in the yard sale are the non-core 4060s which can overload easier than the core counterparts

not a bad deal if those are the mics you need and you have a use for the extra accessories. youre hard pressed to get into a basic stripped-down setup of d:vice, mics, clips, and windscreens for under $1400. something like this and haggling with a distributor to shave their already thin margins on DPA:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1311240-REG/dpa_microphones_vidmk_4060_s_d_vice_mma_a_digital_audio.html

I had to work with DPA to set me up with one of their distributors to substitute matched 4061 COREs in that set and it and that was over $1500 once i made the substitution. so thats a fair deal with the xlr adapters and extension cables if you ever want to run it from a regular phantom pre. and the extension cables are nice if you want to do split omnis



Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 09, 2018, 09:14:23 PM
here are 2 of the same sets from redrocks, 4Vs behind SBD, 4061s+MMA in row 2

i used the bass rolloff on the d:vice app and normalized it in post, no other processing

https://soundcloud.com/umphluv

i also ran 4080s and 4088+4060 from the section on other nights
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on July 09, 2018, 10:07:50 PM
I think the iPhone 5 is the oldest "supported" iPhone, and that you need iOS 10 or later to run the DPA app (I am using an iPhone 6S +).

I have experimented with my Android phone (an LG V30); you can't reset the volume without the iOS app of course.  While recording at home with USB Audio Recorder Pro on my Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 tablet with no screen shut-down works fine and rolls over files seamlessly at 2GB, the LG phone using USB Audio Recorder Pro with the screen blanked stops after 2 GB (it looks like it is recording but no file is saved beyond 2GB).  This may be fixable, I have not tried further tweeking.  But I wouldn't want to buy any combo that hasn't been attested to work with the hardware you want to use, for the length of time and resolution you use.

It would really be nice if the DPA app recorded as well, and were available for Android.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 09, 2018, 10:17:35 PM
FWIW i recorded a 4 hour ~4GB file (24/44.1) with my iphone SE just fine. (it was actually 3971 MB so i dunno what happens at 4GB). im pretty sure voice recorder pro can auto-split as well
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: bhoy on July 14, 2018, 09:37:21 PM
jerryfreak -

I really like the sound of the 4061's and the d:vice in that sample.  Which do you prefer?  Maybe the main difference is in the location - row 2 vs sbd area?

Bill
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 15, 2018, 09:09:59 AM
i hate chatter so its a rare recording where you can pull it off with the omnis

they def have a more open sound in that recording.

ive found the omnis are pretty resistant to wind noise, i had no screens on those, but the schoeps had the fatty B&K windscreens which prob muffle a bit
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: morst on July 17, 2018, 09:57:19 PM
ive found the omnis are pretty resistant to wind noise, i had no screens on those...
Yep, the omni mics lack the "Proximity Effect" that cardioid and other directional mics possess, where nearby sources come through with more bass. For whatever scientific reason, wind noise gets the boost on directional mics as well. I guess when it hits the mics, it's pretty close!!?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 17, 2018, 10:56:11 PM
well i think its because all mics are pressure gradient transducers and wind does funky things when there are vents to selectively allow sounds in the back of a capsule that make shit go wild
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on July 18, 2018, 10:55:47 AM
well i think its because all mics are pressure gradient transducers and wind does funky things when there are vents to selectively allow sounds in the back of a capsule that make shit go wild

Not all mics are pressure gradient transducers. But the shit go wild part is pretty much spot on. True pressure omnis (such as all DPA omnis) are not pressure gradient transducers, although electrically-switched dual-capsule microphones with an omni pattern are, and all directional microphones are to varying degrees.

> Pressure transducer = diaphragm open to sound on one side and closed to sound on the other, providing a pressure reference measurement against the closed side = omni
> Pressure gradient transducer = diaphragm open to sound on both sides, providing a pressure differential measurement between the two sides = bi-directional

Any directional microphone with a pickup pattern in between omni and bidirectional is a combination of those two basic principles.  A cardioid combines equal amounts of both. But you probably already knew all this.

How this is implemented varies.  Because the sound pressure gradient at low frequencies is weak, the diaphragm tension of pressure gradient microphones needs to be less than that of a pressure omni to achieve appropriate sensitivity at low frequencies.  But at low frequencies, turbulent wind pressure difference between the front and back sides of the diaphragm can easily exceed sound pressure difference, making pressure gradient mics more susceptible to wind noise. The diaphragm tension of pressure omnis can be higher, making the restoring force on the diaphragm correspondingly greater, which helps reduce handing and wind noise. 

Link to an article by Chris Woolf which covers this- How to reduce wind noise and vibration
http://microphone-data.com/media/filestore/articles/Wind%20and%20vibration-10.pdf?_ga=2.213787796.166413374.1531921444-569004240.1531921444 (http://microphone-data.com/media/filestore/articles/Wind%20and%20vibration-10.pdf?_ga=2.213787796.166413374.1531921444-569004240.1531921444)


Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 21, 2018, 02:21:15 PM
has anybody found any shorter lightning to microusb cables? the only ones i see on amazon are right angle at the micro end which wouldnt really work well with the dvice the way the mic inputs are adjacent
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 12, 2018, 11:28:44 PM
An anecdote:

I was recording a 17 piece string chamber orchestra today, limited setup time but the problem didn't become obvious until work in post.  I was using (as I often do) a Josephson C700S > Zoom F8n, the group formed a larger than usual semi-circle (8 violins left, 4 cellos and 3 violas right, 2 double basses center).  The Josephson did its usual great job of localizing the players and getting ambiance, but both in Blumlein and M/S mixes everything sounded distant and weak, the mic stand was really too far away from the instruments and the hole in the center too obvious.  I should have tried mixing in more W channel to get crossed cardioids, but instead I went to my backup recording.

Rather than my usual backup shaver (D50 or Nagra Lino with internal mics), I was trying out new DPA 4011 caps on microdot active cables into the d:vice MMA-A (> iPhone 6+).  The mics were in a Shapeways 3-D printed ORTF mount. 

This is really more about mic choice than recorder, but I am still impressed (after using the d:vice for over a year now with DPA minis) how good it sounds with 4011 or 4015 caps.  I went with the "backup" as my finished product, no reactions yet.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on October 13, 2018, 09:36:34 PM
anecdotal thing here.. i rolled into a show and deleted a few random things from the rode app to make sure i ahve enough space- heads up- it sends them to a recycle bin of sorts which isnt super intuitive. you need to go to "restore deleted items" and permanently delete
anyway here is MOST of the b-52s from reno events center

https://soundcloud.com/user-24091888/b52s-2018-09-22-reno-nv
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on October 15, 2018, 12:45:48 PM
Very cool to see your first-hand report of use with 4011 caps, Jeff.  And good to hear your impression that the combination is up to snuff.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kingdong on November 07, 2018, 12:56:55 PM
Apologies if this has been covered in the thread, but my search attempts did not yield results.  Does anyone have a recommendation for a replacement ios cable for the d:vice?  I scored a d:vice that does not have any cables and would love to find one cheaper and quicker than the $70/2 weeks that B&H shows on their site.
Thanks, Don

To be clear, I am talking about the micro usb-b to lightning cable
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on November 08, 2018, 05:32:03 PM
i am interested as well. there are some funky right angle ones on amazon for some drone but i havent tried one
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kingdong on November 13, 2018, 10:58:38 PM
Followup to my cable question.  I went with this option: http://meenova.com/st/p/lgtnmuc.html
Received it today just in time to test it out on a show I didnt really care about recording.  It was my first attempt to use the d:vice and I think things worked.  The 4 foot cable was very convenient to be ablo to take my phone in and out of my pocket to check levels.  So far so good...
On a side not, I had downloaded the DPA app and the Shure Motiv app.  In the literally 5-10 minutes I had to try to set things up, I couldn't get the DPA app to do anything, but the Shure app seemed to be able to set sample rate and bit depth just fine.  Once I pull the files off my phone, I'll be able to verify that it actually worked.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on November 14, 2018, 11:23:08 PM
nice find!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on November 26, 2018, 11:18:05 AM
I'm beyond pissed right now.

I've had two failures in the field this year with the D:vice and a pair of hat-mounted 4060's, and I have no idea why!

Both times, I return home to find I have recorded several gigs of… nothing. Empty bits. Gigs and gigs of nothing. Absolute digital silence.

Here's as much as I can tell about my set up and method. Any tips on what may be happening, or what I may be doing wrong, are very much appreciated.

The rig consists of:
iPhone 8 plus, 256GB, with iOS 11 back in August when the first failure occurred, and iOS 12 yesterday when the second one occurred.

DPA 4060's, poking out of a baseball cap... cables run down the back of my shirt, into a pocket, attached securely to the D:vice.  the USB-Lightning cable runs from the D:vice to my other pocket, and plugs into my phone. That's it. This is the simplest set up I've ever used, and yet, I seemingly have issues.

Procedure: Usually before leaving the house I:
1. wake up iPhone
2. plug in D:vice
3. Launch D:vice app, make sure it's set to stereo, a low gain setting, sometimes I engage the bass filter, and then I activate Lock, so nothing can be changed accidentally.
4. Launch Shure Motiv app and press Record.
5. Put phone to sleep and back in my pocket.

That's it. what the heck could I be getting wrong there?

the one flaw is I can't monitor or check through headphones before leaving the house. I have a newer phone without the standard 1/8" headphone jack, so unless I buy some wireless buds, I can't hear what's going on. I tried buying a lightning to lightning plus 1/8" adapter, but it doesn't seem to actually pass digital and audio at the same time.

I'm blind, and while Voiceover, the iOS screen reading function, does read me all the controls in the D:vice and Motiv apps, it will not read the meters, as they are graphical.
First failure was seeing Jeff Beck outdoors.

Last night's failure was at Steve Vai's Generation Axe tour, with Vai, Yngwie, Zakk Wyle, Nuno Bettencourt, and Tosin Abasi, in a theater with great acoustics. I had eleventh row floor, right in the middle, and heard lots of lovely stereo from the PA. *sigh*

Again, all tips welcome!

I usually feel a little on edge when I'm taping at a show, and honestly, if I can't get consistent results, I'm considering just selling this stuff and not worrying about it.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on November 27, 2018, 05:42:59 AM
thats a real bummer. do you have a techy friend with sight who can watch it? maybe its something very obvious that your accessibility software isnt indicating? if not i can try to troubleshoot with a webcam or something
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: briedis on November 28, 2018, 03:38:32 PM
I'm beyond pissed right now.

I've had two failures in the field this year with the D:vice and a pair of hat-mounted 4060's, and I have no idea why!

Both times, I return home to find I have recorded several gigs of… nothing. Empty bits. Gigs and gigs of nothing. Absolute digital silence.

Here's as much as I can tell about my set up and method. Any tips on what may be happening, or what I may be doing wrong, are very much appreciated.

The rig consists of:
iPhone 8 plus, 256GB, with iOS 11 back in August when the first failure occurred, and iOS 12 yesterday when the second one occurred.

DPA 4060's, poking out of a baseball cap... cables run down the back of my shirt, into a pocket, attached securely to the D:vice.  the USB-Lightning cable runs from the D:vice to my other pocket, and plugs into my phone. That's it. This is the simplest set up I've ever used, and yet, I seemingly have issues.

Procedure: Usually before leaving the house I:
1. wake up iPhone
2. plug in D:vice
3. Launch D:vice app, make sure it's set to stereo, a low gain setting, sometimes I engage the bass filter, and then I activate Lock, so nothing can be changed accidentally.
4. Launch Shure Motiv app and press Record.
5. Put phone to sleep and back in my pocket.

That's it. what the heck could I be getting wrong there?

the one flaw is I can't monitor or check through headphones before leaving the house. I have a newer phone without the standard 1/8" headphone jack, so unless I buy some wireless buds, I can't hear what's going on. I tried buying a lightning to lightning plus 1/8" adapter, but it doesn't seem to actually pass digital and audio at the same time.

I'm blind, and while Voiceover, the iOS screen reading function, does read me all the controls in the D:vice and Motiv apps, it will not read the meters, as they are graphical.
First failure was seeing Jeff Beck outdoors.

Last night's failure was at Steve Vai's Generation Axe tour, with Vai, Yngwie, Zakk Wyle, Nuno Bettencourt, and Tosin Abasi, in a theater with great acoustics. I had eleventh row floor, right in the middle, and heard lots of lovely stereo from the PA. *sigh*

Again, all tips welcome!

I usually feel a little on edge when I'm taping at a show, and honestly, if I can't get consistent results, I'm considering just selling this stuff and not worrying about it.

I had same experience with rode app. Stopped using, since rode app was not supporting multiple large files. if I was reaching five files larger that 2 hours audio (24.48) app was crashing, or taping blank digital silence files... very frustrating.

Now I am using Apogee Metarecorder. App also works with latest iOS 12.1.

I had also very bad surprises with current app, but that in fact has nothing to do with app itself.
If (during recording) you push and hold home button - be sure - recording will be interrupted and stopped. Therefore suggestion - disable SIRI when recording

My pretaping routine:
1. Home - Settings - Do not disturb
2. Hardware silence switch on the phone - set to silent
3. Home - Settings - General - Accessibility - Home button - Siri - OFF
4. best one to end up: Home - Settings - Airplane mode - Enable it ;)

Good luck.

BTW if you tape with Apogee - tape it to CAF format. This format allows to record files bigger than 2GB. Wav files are limited up to 2GB and recording stops.

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on November 29, 2018, 01:39:12 AM
3. Home - Settings - General - Accessibility - Home button - Siri - OFF

thanks missed this
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on December 08, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
recorded dweezil last night, didnt want to mess with levels so just set both the d:vice app and voicerecordpro levels to their absolute minimum and ran at the usual 24/44.1. it peaked at -20 and i can hear no audible noise floor upon normalization. pretty idiot proof in this case

i was moving around a bit but check out the jam section of pygmy twylyte around 23:30 for some good dynamic sections. maybe 15 feet from the stack in a quiet sit-down section

https://soundcloud.com/umphluv/dweezil2018-12-07
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: morst on December 13, 2018, 07:14:05 AM
DPA is now a subsidiary of RCF, an Italian conglomerate!

SALUTI!
https://www.dpamicrophones.com/news/rcf-group-gibt-ubernahme-von-dpa-microphones-bekannt (https://www.dpamicrophones.com/news/rcf-group-gibt-ubernahme-von-dpa-microphones-bekannt)

RCF Group, one of the fastest growing organizations in the Pro Audio market, today announced the signing of a definitive agreement for the acquisition of DPA Microphones A/S (“DPA”) from The Riverside Company.
DPA, based in Allerod, Denmark, is the #1 premium brand in the high-end professional audio microphone market for the live, broadcast, theatre and studio end-user segments and is known as the undisputed quality leader in the industry, continuously pushing the boundaries with regards to performance and durability.
 
RCF Group, with Headquarters in Italy and branches in the USA and Europe, operates under the companies RCF, AEB Industriale (dB Technologies) and EAW and is an international leader in the design, production and sale of products and solutions for professional audio and installation systems. RCF Group generates over 80% of its revenues outside of Italy in 120 countries.
Next article:

 https://www.psneurope.com/business/dpa-ceo-on-rcf-deal (https://www.psneurope.com/business/dpa-ceo-on-rcf-deal)

Nielsen also confirmed that no staff will be affected and that DPA’s day-to-day activities will remain largely unchanged.

“In practical terms, it doesn't mean that much [for the brand],” he added. “The brand will stay the same – the quality will stay the same, the sound will stay the same.

We are still a Danish business, with the same strategy, the same management, production in Asnæs, headquarters in Allerød, the same employees, the same distribution chain model and the same high-quality products that our customers know and love worldwide.”
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on December 15, 2018, 01:03:10 AM
they didnt say prices will stay the same!

 :smash:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on December 26, 2018, 11:07:19 PM
can somebody whos a little more up to speed on apple gear explain to me the cheapest apple watch that can control the dvice or monitor levels? i see used older model apple watches all the time on ebay but dont know what to look for

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/voice-record-pro/id546983235#?platform=appleWatch
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on January 01, 2019, 12:06:04 PM
Ok, time to try some different apps, after figuring out that it's probably the Shure Motiv app giving me blank wav files. I'm going to try Voice Recorder Pro, Audioshare, and that app someone mentioned in the thread that records to .CAF format.

Question: Which Windows DAW software or audio editing applications will open CAF? I gather that is a container format developed by Apple.  So far, I've only checked my copy of sound Forge 11, and CAF does not appear to be supported.

I like the idea of recording to one large file, without an app doing automatic file splits.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on January 01, 2019, 12:26:25 PM
I am using the Rode app, which records to CAF.  Audacity will open CAF files and allow you to do splits, then export to reasonably sized wav files, and it's free software.  I have used the Rode app (at 24/96, using the paid-up version of the app) since the summer of 2017, made about 150 recordings with only one loss, when I neglected to hit "record" (can't blame that on Rode or DPA).

The only near-misses I have had relate to the DPA app/equipment: on two or three occasions I have had the DPA app not connect (leaving the iPhone mono mic as the input), plugging and unplugging the USB/Apple connector cord several times in panic (and later cleaning the contacts) has fixed this. 

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on January 01, 2019, 12:36:55 PM
Hi Jeff. Unfortunately, none of the controls in the Rhode app are read by Voiceover, the screen reader function built into iOS. so, as a blind guy, I must use something else.
But, thanks for that info - it's good to know that app works well.

Much earlier in this topic, someone mentioned that Audioshare will not automatically split at 4GB, and possibly, does not actually record at 96kHz. Is this still the case with that app?

Can someone verify that Voice Recorder Pro 7 does indeed capture full 96K?
Same goes for Metarecorder... actual 96K, or does it just pad things beyond a certain frequency?

(without getting into the whole "is beyond 44.1K worth it" debate... don't want to revive that one. LOL)

Sorry for all the questions, and all the best for 2019. May none of us have any taping mishaps!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on January 01, 2019, 08:18:40 PM
that would be tough to test "real" 96k as youd need a source that had frequencies up to 48K. d:vice output would prob look the same spectrally at all sample rates above 44.1 
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on January 01, 2019, 08:20:13 PM
blindguy have you tried apogee metarecorder?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on January 01, 2019, 09:05:05 PM
that would be tough to test "real" 96k as youd need a source that had frequencies up to 48K. d:vice output would prob look the same spectrally at all sample rates above 44.1


????  This is absolutely not true.

One hall I record in has a motion-detection high frequency system that operates at 32.771 kHz.  This also shows up in all the DPA MMA-A recordings I make there at 96 kHz sampling.  When I recorded with the DPA MMA-A d:vice with an app that claimed to be operating at 96 kHz but just filled, the frequency plot above ~20 kHz went dead black while with the Rode app there is a smooth transition up there, and for some noises certainly signal there.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on January 01, 2019, 11:40:30 PM
nice, did not know the mics went that high. sounds like youre well equipped to test the voicerecord app for 96K, i think theres a free version with limited capability
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on January 02, 2019, 09:57:59 AM
Hi @WiFiJeff. That is very interesting about the 32K signal. I've been reading about the symptoms experienced by foreign diplomats in Cuba, symptoms ranging from anxiety, all the way up to what looks like concussion, albeit without head trauma having occurred.  As you can imagine, the theories as to what was happening there are all over the map, including Russian microwave weapons.

But, one article I read, included a report of hearing a sound "like a cricket", along with the theory that it was generated by two higher frequencies mixing in the air, producing undertones. So, it would be 32K mixing with something else, and the resulting beating generating something down in the audible range for humans.  Sorry for the digression. It's an interesting thought to include in the "do higher sampling rates matter" debates though.

Could you or someone else do us a huge favor and run a quick test on the Voice Record Pro 7, and Metarecorder apps, to confirm that they are capturing higher frequencies? Those are my two choices, since the Rode app actually silences the iOS screenreader completely (I've never seen an app do that before). And, I don't like some aspects of Audioshare.

Thanks.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on January 02, 2019, 10:48:09 AM
Voice Recorder 7 Pro was the program I first ran with the d:vice, it produced 96 kHz sized files with no info at all in the higher frequencies.  I have allowed the app to update but not experimented for over a year.  Just ran a  brief test again with it at 96 kHz setting and in iZotope Rx7 it is clear that there is NOTHING above 23-4 kHz, it flatlines in the spectral analysis window.  I am still using iOS 10 (afraid to break anything with an upgrade) so it is possible that VR 7 Pro plays nicer with the newer iOS versions, but I won't risk trying that as I can't go back to iOS 10 if something breaks.

I do not have Metarecorder, but when I questioned the DPA guys at the AES show in October about a 4 track version of the d:vice they recommended Metarecorder for syncing two MMA-As, since the power drain from a 4 channel d:vice would be more than an iPhone could handle.  I did not ask them about Metarecorder at 96 kHz.  It's on my list of things to maybe try, but I am currently busy learning Reaper so I can handle the 19 channel feed from my Zylia ZM-1, and this has maxed out my little brain for the moment.  I have a voice and piano session Friday that I am getting ready for (stereo shotgun on the singer/pianist, omnis on the Steinway, with the Zylia as backup).  I may play around with Metarecorder over the weekend, but we have three early instrument concerts to attend.  I could also throw in something about the day job, but I'm retired.

Jeff
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: BlindGuyEars on January 02, 2019, 11:41:33 AM
No worries. Yeah, life gets busier after retirement apparently. :)

Personally, I use Samplitude. I like it's audio engine and stock plugins, it borrows some concepts from Reaper like moving objects (events) around on the timeline, ripple editing etc. but it's not as open-ended.  Reaper is a techy tweaker's dream, with many many ways to do just about everything you can think of, but my brain can't cope with all that choice and possibility.

I came up using old versions of Cakewalk Sonar, so I'm accustomed to a well-defined and rather rigid workflow.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on February 27, 2019, 08:16:50 PM
couple updates:

-used apogee metarecorder last weekend. i like the simplified interface over voicerecord pro (menu is a lot simpler and makes it harder to mess it up and accidentally record 16 bit or .mp3 or add effects accidentally). it worked well for me and you can drop markers while recording which some may find useful. level meters are better than voicerecord pro. it has an option to require long press to pause or stop your recording which is nice and secure

-the d:vice with 4061s passed a walk-thru metal detector in my pocket without issue

-i tried to connect a line-in to the d:vice, thru a blocking cap. d:vice didnt see an input so that seems like a dead end. not sure what it is sensing to trigger turning the input on and intitialize the d:vice control app

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 04, 2019, 11:33:05 AM
was on phone with dpa support today

i asked about the rolloff and they told me 2nd order 80 hz

im pretty sure 2nd order = 12 dB/octave but i have no idea how to represent that on a frequency plot
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: down2earthlandscaper on March 05, 2019, 01:43:05 AM
recorded dweezil last night, didnt want to mess with levels so just set both the d:vice app and voicerecordpro levels to their absolute minimum and ran at the usual 24/44.1. it peaked at -20 and i can hear no audible noise floor upon normalization. pretty idiot proof in this case

i was moving around a bit but check out the jam section of pygmy twylyte around 23:30 for some good dynamic sections. maybe 15 feet from the stack in a quiet sit-down section

https://soundcloud.com/umphluv/dweezil2018-12-07

Dweezil sounds fantastic. Great job! Is this EQ'd?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 05, 2019, 03:07:26 AM
recorded dweezil last night, didnt want to mess with levels so just set both the d:vice app and voicerecordpro levels to their absolute minimum and ran at the usual 24/44.1. it peaked at -20 and i can hear no audible noise floor upon normalization. pretty idiot proof in this case

i was moving around a bit but check out the jam section of pygmy twylyte around 23:30 for some good dynamic sections. maybe 15 feet from the stack in a quiet sit-down section

https://soundcloud.com/umphluv/dweezil2018-12-07

Dweezil sounds fantastic. Great job! Is this EQ'd?

i dont remember, prob a lil.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 10, 2019, 01:01:12 AM
inside:

ADC:
AKM AK5552VN
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK5552VN
 (https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK5552VN)

must be decent, McIntosh uses it in their phono preamp with digi out:
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/brand/news/-/media/fed323ad77b74ababc94ec2c773dbfbc.ashx



Microcontroller:
CY8C3866LTI-030
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/cy8c3866lti-030/cypress-semiconductor (https://www.arrow.com/en/products/cy8c3866lti-030/cypress-semiconductor)

board:<10g
aluminum housing >50g

where can i find someone to accurately 3D scan the housing so i can print a plastic version? stick it to the back of the phone and call it a popsocket

(https://i.imgur.com/qGIdjKO.png)

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 11, 2019, 09:25:03 AM
Thanks for that photo.

where can i find someone to accurately 3D scan the housing so i can print a plastic version? stick it to the back of the phone and call it a popsocket

Still dreaming of husking two or three as above and putting them in a phone-size USB battery case along with a smaller battery and internal USB hub to link up.  Primary hurdle is the recognition of more than one d:vice by the phone and recording app.  If anyone hears of progress on this front (multiple d:vices into one phone), please ping me.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 11, 2019, 09:28:35 AM
your better bet would be to sync two iphones using metarecorder. less fiddling and guaranteed to work. you can even run both sessions from one of the phones, or a watch even
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 11, 2019, 09:42:32 AM
May look into that as the only currently working practical alternative.  Would be great to have it all on one phone, limiting the amount of devices and wiring in pocket.  I used to carry two seperate recorders and preamps and am not looking forward to going back to that complexity even if manually syncing the files afterward isn't required.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrisedge on March 25, 2019, 12:39:49 PM
What are some SMALL Cardioid mics that will plug directly into this (No battery/pre needed)? Or suggestions on mics in general?

I am trying to figure out how to reduce my footprint and this may be a good upgrade path on top of that.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on March 25, 2019, 12:45:10 PM
What are some SMALL Cardioid mics that will plug directly into this (No battery/pre needed)? Or suggestions on mics in general?

I am trying to figure out how to reduce my footprint and this may be a good upgrade path on top of that.

DPA 4080's should work.

I've been considering that combo. Need to find some recordings made with it first before dropping that kind of cash.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: WiFiJeff on March 25, 2019, 01:22:28 PM
I use 4081s (discontinued, but you can sometimes find them), which work fine.  The d:vice is limited to 30 dB of gain, so I have to do more boosting in post, since the 4081s are less sensitive than the 4060s (more like 4061s).  You can also use 4011s with the active cable with micro-dot connectors, but these are bigger.  I run this as backup sometimes for my main rig Josephson or Schoeps.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 25, 2019, 02:13:16 PM
(was typing while Jeff posted)
All current DPA cardioids can work.

That means any microdot terminated miniature, hooked up directly to the microdot inputs on the d:vice:
4080
4081
4098
4099
..and others

Primary difference between those being mounting system format and sensitivity, as far as I can tell, but with 4080 response and pattern vary a bit as well.  4099 is intended for instrument mounting and come with a foam screen integrated into a shock mount with a 90 degree gooseneck out the side of the microphone.  4098 has higher sensitivity and is intended for podium mic'ing or as a hanging choir microphone, and is "pencil format" style with the  integrated gooseneck extending from the rear of the microphone.  Even though it has higher sensitivity I find 4098 about on par with 4061 when setting my input trims.

4080 is slightly higher sensitive still with a somewhat different response- a less smooth response curve and a somewhat more wide-cardioid-ish open pattern. 4098 & 4099 are nominally supercard but appear to be about as far that side of cardioid as the 4098/4099 is to the supercardioid side.


..and also means the new modular mainline DPA cardioid caps (4011, 2011) can work as well via the active microdot cable.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Chrisedge on March 25, 2019, 06:51:48 PM
Dumb question, could one use the d:VICE with other mics (see signature) with an appropriate adapter (microdot > 3.5mm stereo)?

I would considering spreading out the purchase, if I could use something else in the meantime.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 25, 2019, 06:55:00 PM
Should work.  As long as the mics are wired in 2-wire mode and are good with ~5V

Edit (adding this caveat jerryfreak mentions below)-
the d:vice needs to 'detect' the mic, so it may only do this in a limited impedance range. TBD. a simple line-in test with blocking capacitor didnt activate it when i tried
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 26, 2019, 06:50:18 AM
i ran the better part of two umphreys shows this weekend with 4061s in croakies and a single 4099 taped to the bill of my hat pointing forward (god bless open taping shows, tho i looked like a dork (even more than usual). both were the newer CORE versions. i only had a single 4099 to play with. both went to d:vices, 4061 in stereo, 4099 in mono. this woulda been an excellent chance to use metarecorder in linked mode but i spaced it.

ive heard some 4099 recordings on DIME and thought they were on the thinner side of my 4061 omnis so i wanted to see what i could do with them under my normal style of recording and how much eqing it would take to put the bass back. they definitely seem to have the flattest response relative to the other mini directional mics, but hard to tell because bass response is difficult to judge with proximity effect. the actual mic slides easily out of the windscreen and is about 3/16" x 1.25"

(https://i.imgur.com/fhGTHrJ.png)

these would be plenty  >:D able in hat or croakies if the handling noise wasnt too bad. i need to commit to keeping them (and get another) and then i would reterm them to microdots free of the captive flex mount (which is cool, but not really for this purpose). in this case i just laid the captive flex mount flat on my ballcap and taped it down with some electrical tape, which left the mic pointing straight forward and up slightly near the front of the brim

ill upload some samples of what i pulled, both flat and EQd. if you want to comp the 4061 and 4099 i recommend doing it on a stereo and not headphones as one is mono and one is stereo

um crowd down front in cleveland was schwilly as all hell per usual and super chatty/sing-alongy. but it was a good test under adverse conditions. 4099 definitely has a less open sound than the 4061s but the side rejection was undeniably effective
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 26, 2019, 07:00:54 AM
Dumb question, could one use the d:VICE with other mics (see signature) with an appropriate adapter (microdot > 3.5mm stereo)?

I would considering spreading out the purchase, if I could use something else in the meantime.

the d:vice needs to 'detect' the mic, so it may only do this in a limited impedance range. TBD. a simple line-in test with blocking capacitor didnt activate it when i tried
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2019, 10:11:43 AM
^ Thanks for that real-world check.  I suppose detection could be via impedance or current draw. I edited my post above to reflect your comment.

Also thanks for the 4099 photo with the mic pulled out of the windscreen/mount.  Looks identical to the 4098 once exposed like that. Seems to confirm they are basically the same microphone in a different package.  I can confirm that as expected the supercardioid-ish pattern is considerably more susceptible to both wind and handling noise than the omnis.

And +T for going full dork with the test setup!

If you do record something using metarecorder in linked mode and both d:vices, please let me know how well that works, and how smooth/kludgy the assemblage is to operate.  Especially interested if the two recordings remain in sync down to the sample level.  Your test arrangement is actually similar to how I would run, using one 4098/4099 + three 4060.  Primary difference is the L/R baffled omnis would be spaced about twice as far apart and the 3rd baffled and facing rearward.

Alternate interesting use of the 4th channel would be to turn the single 4098/4099 into Mid/Side pair.  Need a miniature DPA bi-directional.
[EDIT- or a low-voltage 2-wire figure-8 from ANY manufacturer.  Manufacturers, please make one]
[2nd EDIT- or ideally, a DPA Mid/Side stereo microphone based on the 4098/4099.
^ Just unsure which of these imaginary options is the most fanciful]
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: heathen on March 26, 2019, 12:51:14 PM
ill upload some samples of what i pulled, both flat and EQd. if you want to comp the 4061 and 4099 i recommend doing it on a stereo and not headphones as one is mono and one is stereo

I'm interested to hear the 4099 by itself!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 26, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
If you do record something using metarecorder in linked mode and both d:vices, please let me know how well that works, and how smooth/kludgy the assemblage is to operate.  Especially interested if the two recordings remain in sync down to the sample level. 


ive messed with it around the house, its pretty simple. did not check sync level
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2019, 04:13:27 PM
^ Upon getting metarecorder setup and linked on both phones, is it all controlled at that point on from just one of them?  Can the other be essentially locked down and not otherwise manually interfaced with?  How do the two communicate? Bluetooth?

Sorry for all the questions.  I suppose I should look into Metarecorder.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 26, 2019, 04:17:55 PM
^ Upon getting metarecorder setup and linked on both phones, is it all controlled at that point on from just one of them?  Can the other be essentially locked down and not otherwise manually interfaced with?  How do the two communicate? Bluetooth?

Sorry for all the questions.  I suppose I should look into Metarecorder.
.

yes yes and yes.

the second phone goes into "slave" mode and the "master" phone pops up shorter recording windows with individual level meters and controls. i cant remember if the 'slave' phone can be stopped independently, but the app has a decent lock screen and requires long press to stop recording so it would be hard to accidentally turn off.

screenshots are seen here

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/apogee-metarecorder/id965930387
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2019, 04:23:55 PM
I'm imagining carrying three phones to do 6ch.
Crazy I know.  Yet controlling it from a watch would be quite Dick Tracy.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 26, 2019, 04:43:00 PM
if you dont need cell service, tracfone (tracfone/straight talk/total wireless). 32gb iphone SEs can be had for as little as $50 in as-new refurb conditions with 100% battery capacity, and have about 20-25GB of usable space after the OS overhead. i have several. they are small rugged and efficient. three of them stacked up, with hard cases, are only slightly bigger than an edirol r09. take the cases off, prob the same volume as the r09.

in any case, it passes EVERY security flawlessly

they can be used as cam and also shoot 4K video. you can stream from them if you get cell service

for years i bagged on apple but after using the 32GB i bought a 64 and 128GB used and unlocked on ebay. both were about 1 year old with 90% battery cap and is what i used this weekend, the 32gb ones are tucked away. the 64gb is my daily driver phone i put it in airplane mode while recording. the 64 and 128gb can be had for $100-$200. this sandisk drive  is also an option, which is locked down a bit by apple, but metarecorder can export your wavs right to it at about a GB/minute. i have the 128gb version

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-256GB-iXpand-Flash-iPhone/dp/B01MUH9BET

it also has an app which i believe plays flac but doesnt really interface into apple music app, its its own thing

one other huge selling point of the iphone SE is that it is the last gen to have a real headphone jack so you dont need dumb proprietary dongles

I'm imagining carrying three phones to do 6ch.
Crazy I know.  Yet controlling it from a watch would be quite Dick Tracy.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2019, 04:48:12 PM
Hmmm [mental gears turning..]
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 26, 2019, 05:31:36 PM
Thanks much for the specifics, you've help shift all this my mind from the realm of fantasy to actual possibility.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 26, 2019, 10:42:01 PM
heres one sample of the UM 3/22 show recorded from the 'sweet spot' FOB. also provided is a sample of the sony PCM-A10's internal card mics which really held their own given the volume. Again when comparing 4099 vs 4061 use speakers not headphones as the 4099 is mono and thats not a fair fight. i eq'd by listening to the mix on my 8" Rokit KRK monitors

https://soundcloud.com/user-24091888/sets/4061-vs-4099-vs-pcm-a10-internal-mics

raw samples are provided as well as samples EQ'd using the following curves
4061 (independently normalized both channels after EQing to -15 dB RMS):
(https://i.imgur.com/2GqJlQT.png)

4099 (independently normalized both channels after EQing to -15 dB RMS):
(https://i.imgur.com/s7hoinx.png)

PCM-A10 (independently normalized both channels after EQing to -16 dB RMS as it wasnt as dynamic as the ones above):
(https://i.imgur.com/QKqZo4j.png)

here is a 20 minute sample from the next night (3/23 cleveland), i was on the floor, about 5 rows back from right stack. all were eq'd and normalized to -17dB RMS

4061 EQ curve:
(https://i.imgur.com/4SfXmyv.png)

4099 EQ curve:
(https://i.imgur.com/ay6nHFP.png)


Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 27, 2019, 01:34:17 PM
Couldn't find a way to download the soundcloud samples, so I tried to play both the 4061 and 4099 soundcloud samples simultaneously in two different windows.  Soundcloud won't allow this within the same browser, although I think it used to.  However, I was able to do so using two different browsers.  It's tricky getting the sync just right, but it can be done upon some trial and error via precise manipulation of pause/play controls - an obscure skill I refined doing this for simultaneous playback from two R-09s years ago. 

Once playing in sync, the most appropriate balance between the 4061s and single 4099 can be dialed in using the volume sliders for each.

As suspected, the stereo 4061 + mono 4099 combination is a good, and superior to either in isolation.  Using the non-EQ / non-normalized files (much gain required on the 4061's, very little on the 4099) the native response of each fits nicely with the other, producing a sort of "self EQ'd" mix.

Maybe give it a try in your editor where the sync'ing will be far easier and more precise.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 27, 2019, 03:21:20 PM
OK I’ll give it a shot and I can put the raw files in a zip file if you want to grab them all to play with
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 27, 2019, 05:47:34 PM
OK I’ll give it a shot and I can put the raw files in a zip file if you want to grab them all to play with

Thanks but that's not necessary for me, although others might like to do so and I very much encourage anyone interested to try it.  I mostly wanted to satisfy my own curiosity that the 3 microphone arrangement and stereo mix works in the complementary way I expect it should (both spatial-image-wise and complementary-frequency-balance-wise), even with the limited spacing between the omnis.

I know this test was only intended to serve as a general comparative test of the 4099 and the test configuration used was based on having only one 4099 available. I also recognize that your plan is not to actually use the microphones in this configuration, but to instead use a pair of 4099, either with or without the 4061 omni pair mixed with them.

However, there is a lot to be said for this 3 microphone arrangement.  It gets a lot of things right: solidifying the spatial center with an upfront focus and presence across the mid and high frequencies reserved for the primary source of interest (direct sound from the stage/PA), while retaining good deep stereo width in the bass without things getting cluttered down there, and a nice open ambience from the omni mids and highs.

For all that to work well its very important to dial in the balance of the 4099 against the omnis accurately by ear.  It can't be some formulaic 50:50 mix or whatever.

It is perhaps best described as an "improved HTRF recording technique" - HTRF recording technique meaning head-worn omnis placed along the temple region in front of the ears.

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 27, 2019, 06:37:14 PM
The next question then becomes:

Is that 3-microphone arrangement better than an more typical HTRF arrangement? 
In this case "typical HTRF" only in terms of microphone mounting location. It's atypical in using two 4099, each with an omni located directly behind it so as to be coincident.

I don't know the answer to that.  Some comparative tests would have to be done. WiFiJeff uses that a configuration and has posted favorable comments about it.  As I understand it, he low-pass filters the omnis so they only begin to contribute as the 4081s response begin to rolls off, extending the low frequency response below that of the 4081s.  Is the low-passing necessary for reasons for other than retaining tight forward pattern control at mid and high frequencies?  Without low-pass filtering is there some phasiness or comb filtering in the mids/highs from the interaction of the closely placed omni and supercardioid capsules?   Is there combing between the parallel arrangement of supercardioids that have essentially no angle between them?  I don't know, but am curious to hear Jeff's comments.

And of course, besides determining which configuration produces the prefered sound quality, there are practical considerations which could easily trump these aspects. One is mounting. 4098/4099 are small, yet considerably longer than the tiny omnis due to their miniature interference tube grid.  Centered mounting of a single one on the brim of a hat works, but what about hat-less gigs?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 27, 2019, 06:40:51 PM
Centered mounting of a single one on the brim of a hat works, but what about hat-less gigs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AeCCg3KbGY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AeCCg3KbGY)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on March 27, 2019, 07:23:26 PM
Classic!

Beats the faux pinocchio nose and false oversized thyroid tumor options.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 27, 2019, 09:22:52 PM
Couldn't find a way to download the soundcloud samples, so I tried to play both the 4061 and 4099 soundcloud samples simultaneously in two different windows.  Soundcloud won't allow this within the same browser, although I think it used to.  However, I was able to do so using two different browsers.  It's tricky getting the sync just right, but it can be done upon some trial and error via precise manipulation of pause/play controls - an obscure skill I refined doing this for simultaneous playback from two R-09s years ago. 

Once playing in sync, the most appropriate balance between the 4061s and single 4099 can be dialed in using the volume sliders for each.

As suspected, the stereo 4061 + mono 4099 combination is a good, and superior to either in isolation.  Using the non-EQ / non-normalized files (much gain required on the 4061's, very little on the 4099) the native response of each fits nicely with the other, producing a sort of "self EQ'd" mix.

Maybe give it a try in your editor where the sync'ing will be far easier and more precise.

https://soundcloud.com/user-24091888/4061-4099mix2-1

quick and dirty mix in vegas using only these settings on the 4061 (EQ+ 3.5 dB gain). 4099 source is untouched
(https://i.imgur.com/96n76CZ.png)

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on March 30, 2019, 08:24:20 PM
ok i finally got it to see line-in

i only have one microdot pigtail to work with, with an open circuit, voltage between signal wire and ground was 4.98V. I connected a 20k potentiometer between signal and ground starting at 20K and dialed it back , it would kick the d:vice into "mono" mode at about 12K, so i made a simple circuit with a 10K resistor between signal and ground, and then put a 10uF 16V tantalum cap  in the signal wire (with + toward d:vice, thanks mjwin) and then wired in a TRS and and connected it to an old phone i didnt care if i blew up. played a track and lo and behold it works

im going to order some parts and try to connect the low level output from schoeps cmr>bat box to the two microdots. should be a good match as the d:vice has a pretty clean gain stage.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: mjwin on March 31, 2019, 01:41:30 PM
ok i finally got it to see line-in
It's good to know you've cracked it! 

I wonder why the D:vice needs to sense the mic's presence? Is it simply to automatically switch between stereo/mono modes depending on what's connected?

(BTW, I just replied to you other thread re D:vice input pull-up resistors etc)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 01, 2019, 01:59:14 AM
thanks ill check it out. i need to order up some better microdot cables, will measure eventually.

with crappy off the shelf resistor and electrolytic cap and ghetto solder blobs on open wiring i was able to get 85 dB S/N on the input feeding it a miclevel-ish signal from the headphone out of my dac 1

doug is gonna send me some better caps and resistors to use which should improve on that a bit
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 01, 2019, 06:22:40 PM
this might be a better driver for those using android. d:vice not listed as supported but likely because they didnt test it

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=184766
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: edtyre on April 02, 2019, 04:59:01 PM
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: fobstl on April 02, 2019, 05:09:55 PM
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.
Very cool!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: edtyre on April 02, 2019, 05:36:43 PM
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.

Oops correction
ANY caps with Babynbox!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 02, 2019, 05:59:58 PM
nice. any input should work technically, though the fixed gain nboxes might be too high if they cant be attenuated
nick what did you use for resistors and caps and how was the noise floor?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Hypnocracy on April 03, 2019, 06:23:06 AM
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.

That looks amazing...one question...years ago I tried to record with the previous proprietary Apple Connection to a iPod and it was very touchy and too noisy to work...interested in the signal stability of the new Lightning connector...have you put the unit in the field yet?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 03, 2019, 06:33:10 AM
Lightning connection is all digital

Changing the analog input to the d:vice will not affect its connection to the iPhone... which is flawless. Lighting connector is simple and very snug. Lots of miles with these in the field so far, no issues.

https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.

That looks amazing...one question...years ago I tried to record with the previous proprietary Apple Connection to a iPod and it was very touchy and too noisy to work...interested in the signal stability of the new Lightning connector...have you put the unit in the field yet?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: dactylus on April 03, 2019, 08:22:43 AM
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.
^
Nicely done!!
 :clapping:
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 03, 2019, 04:18:38 PM
i just spoke with jon and he said all tinyboxes and pipsqueaks have the blocking caps on output and can tolerate up to 16V of PIP voltage. when i get my microdot cables ill give it a shot, might work out of the box but i guess it depends on the resistance of the output

the first device i tested it with a few months ago didnt trigger the mic input, in any case its easier to put a resistor inside of a cable than a cap, if you have to go that route
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: edtyre on April 04, 2019, 01:02:07 AM
First outing in the field
Jackopeirce
2019-04-03 Sellersville Theater

schoeps mk41v > nbob actives > babynbox > nickmod cable >
d:vice > iphone 8 > voice recorder ios app > 24/48 wav
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI


sample
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/jackopeirce-2019-04-03-sellersville-theater

entire show wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utu9m84ejl65ju5/20190403-205743.wav?dl=0
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: schoepsnbox on April 04, 2019, 10:17:50 AM
First outing in the field
Jackopeirce
2019-04-03 Sellersville Theater

schoeps mk41v > nbob actives > babynbox > nickmod cable >
d:vice > iphone 8 > voice recorder ios app > 24/48 wav
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI


sample
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/jackopeirce-2019-04-03-sellersville-theater

entire show wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utu9m84ejl65ju5/20190403-205743.wav?dl=0

Thanks for taking this gear out for a test drive ed!!  Much appreciated!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: daspyknows on April 04, 2019, 10:59:28 AM
First outing in the field
Jackopeirce
2019-04-03 Sellersville Theater

schoeps mk41v > nbob actives > babynbox > nickmod cable >
d:vice > iphone 8 > voice recorder ios app > 24/48 wav
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI


sample
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/jackopeirce-2019-04-03-sellersville-theater

entire show wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utu9m84ejl65ju5/20190403-205743.wav?dl=0

Thanks for taking this gear out for a test drive ed!!  Much appreciated!

Good job Nick, but why would anyone want to run Schoeps capsules with a phone when those phone mics are state of the art?   :bigsmile:

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 04, 2019, 01:31:09 PM
First outing in the field
Jackopeirce
2019-04-03 Sellersville Theater

schoeps mk41v > nbob actives > babynbox > nickmod cable >
d:vice > iphone 8 > voice recorder ios app > 24/48 wav
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

sample
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/jackopeirce-2019-04-03-sellersville-theater

entire show wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utu9m84ejl65ju5/20190403-205743.wav?dl=0

where was your gain set roughly?

FWIW i love apogee metarecorder way more than voicerecorder pro. the metering seems off on VC, and there are a ton of extra options that can potentially mangle data if not turned off
apogee is well worth the $5
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: edtyre on April 04, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
First outing in the field
Jackopeirce
2019-04-03 Sellersville Theater

schoeps mk41v > nbob actives > babynbox > nickmod cable >
d:vice > iphone 8 > voice recorder ios app > 24/48 wav
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

sample
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/jackopeirce-2019-04-03-sellersville-theater

entire show wav
https://www.dropbox.com/s/utu9m84ejl65ju5/20190403-205743.wav?dl=0

where was your gain set roughly?

FWIW i love apogee metarecorder way more than voicerecorder pro. the metering seems off on VC, and there are a ton of extra options that can potentially mangle data if not turned off
apogee is well worth the $5

Gain was at +5 dB
Actually I have them both and used The Apogee for the opening act
I will have to say I agree after one use that The Apogee seems better
and the deal closer us The Apogee has the watch app that works on my Watch4
https://imgur.com/a/pdVXZ4r
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 04, 2019, 02:12:57 PM
nice i dont have a watch and had asked here previously (to no avail)  whats the lowest version watch i could use for that purpose (thats really all id be using it for so id rather find a cheap one)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 04, 2019, 02:18:48 PM
apogee seems easier to export the files as well, i can bounce them to my lightning usb stick directly from the app which is handy, esp if youre going to be away from a computer for a while
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: edtyre on April 08, 2019, 08:44:34 AM
https://youtu.be/BA-xf5cAN7s

Jon Anderson
2019-04-06 Scottish Rite Auditorium
Collingswood NJ
schoeps mk41v > nbob actives > babynbox > nickmod cable microdot >
dpa d:vice > iPhone 8 > voice recorder pro app > 24/48 wav
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Sebastian on April 08, 2019, 09:15:10 AM
Thanks for the samples, Ed. They sound great.

However, I don't really understand the advantage of running the d:vice > iPhone instead of just a very small recorder like the new Sony A10 or one of the Olympus ones. Maybe you could comment on why you prefer running the d:vice.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: edtyre on April 08, 2019, 11:14:43 AM
Thanks for the samples, Ed. They sound great.

However, I don't really understand the advantage of running the d:vice > iPhone instead of just a very small recorder like the new Sony A10 or one of the Olympus ones. Maybe you could comment on why you prefer running the d:vice.

It comes down to options, one more option that works well isn’t a bad thing,
and people said a professional recording with Schoeps mics into an iPhone was not possible.
Well it is possible and me and Nicky did it. We did it well too, not half ass!

My rig is mk41v > Babynbox > R7
Phone recording doesn’t interest me, but proving and testing things does.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 08, 2019, 03:40:32 PM
Phone recording doesn’t interest me, but proving and testing things does.

preach brother. it wouldnt be fun if we didnt try new things
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Sebastian on April 08, 2019, 04:35:41 PM
It comes down to options, one more option that works well isn’t a bad thing,
and people said a professional recording with Schoeps mics into an iPhone was not possible.
Well it is possible and me and Nicky did it. We did it well too, not half ass!

My rig is mk41v > Babynbox > R7
Phone recording doesn’t interest me, but proving and testing things does.


Got it! Thanks for explaining!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on April 10, 2019, 01:17:58 AM
OK...getting close to pulling the trigger on one of these.

Has anyone used one with a Pixel 3 or Pixel 3 XL? If so what apps should I be downloading to get everything working?

I don't mind buying an iPod touch to use this, but if I don't have to I'd prefer not to.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 10, 2019, 01:46:23 AM
grab a 32GB SE for $50-$100 they come up on slickdeals all the time

small cheap and super battery efficient
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 16, 2019, 08:06:21 PM
grab a 32GB SE for $50-$100 they come up on slickdeals all the time

small cheap and super battery efficient

limited qty at $35 in some stores now

https://slickdeals.net/f/13021315-straight-talk-prepaid-apple-iphone-se-32gb-wm-b-m-extreme-ymmv-35?sdxt01=2019-04-16+16%3A53%3A21&sdxt07=0&utm_source=dealalerts&utm_medium=em-i&utm_term=103580%7Csw&utm_content=387586&utm_campaign=tu7777&p=126872914&src=da_si_v2_67333915#post126872914
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kingdong on April 19, 2019, 11:51:28 AM
So I have done a quick search without finding an answer and am currently reading through this thread, but figured I would post the question since I was hoping to use a d:VICE to record a show tonight.
I have 4060s plugged into the dvice but cannot get the dvice ios app to recognise the dvice.  I have tried multiple cables.  The motiv app receives a signal from the dvice just fine.  I am worried about trying to proceed with this situation as I expect the show to require a minimal input setting from the dvice without the DPA app connecting, I cant make that adjustment (right?).

Anybody else have DPA app problems like this?  Any ideas?
Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 19, 2019, 03:18:42 PM
Make sure your USB cable is in correctly at the dvice. The factory cable is almost the exact same size as the case around the jack. if you put it in upside down it will go in tight you think the cables in but it’s not even making contact
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: kingdong on April 20, 2019, 02:30:21 AM
Thanks for the reply.  USB cable orientation isn't the problem as it works with the MOTIV app.  Submitted the question to DPA and recorded tonight's show with a different setup.  Will update the thread if they give me any useful info
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 20, 2019, 02:35:05 PM
That’s weird

Any of the recording apps I’ve used (voicerecorderpro, apogee MetaRecorder, Rode) can set levels. As far as i know dpa app really only is useful for turning on lowcut. All the apps take control of levels and override anything you set in dvice app

Dpa was of limited help I feel like they farmed the dvice and the software out, nobody there seems to know how it really works
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 20, 2019, 04:44:26 PM
ran 4099s (and 4061s) at death angel last night

2x 4099s actually worked well when the mounts were bent into an arch and taped back to back.

4061s might have the edge in this one as despite the fact i was right up on the PA the sound didnt have a lot of low end. also 4061s have less audible 'movement', the entire floor was a moshpit at some points, i was off to the side with one eye on the pit.

forgot to try the linked apogee master/slave recording again. thought about it mid-set :(

4061s  - did nothing to it but normalize

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pZc8yLhr7mUjSsng_WKdfBoeF7WKYxLx


4099s - bumped bass a bit in EQ and normalized

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oR4eCMbGj5LsTtEiKzXwS8AiRnYeIHT1
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: yug du nord on April 20, 2019, 05:33:12 PM
Just remember that there are prying eyes poking around TS.
Out in your neck of the woods too... 
Careful With That Picture, Eugene.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 20, 2019, 06:39:46 PM
picture? what picture?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: faninor on April 21, 2019, 02:40:12 AM
I've been reading up on the d:vice before purchasing and noticed a few older comments about clipping even with minimum gain settings when trying to run 4060's in a loud environment. Have there been any software / firmware updates to address this, or is a 4060 -> d:vice setup not going to cut it for typical rock shows?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 21, 2019, 02:43:06 AM
4060s are the problem. you need 4061s for a loud show. the 4060 COREs might work (reduces clipping at mic at high SPLs) but will still be putting an awful hot signal to the d:vice relative to the 4061s at the same SPL, and might clip the d:vice's input ("brickwall" it)

4060= 20 mV/Pa
4061 = 6 mV/Pa

for a given SPL, 4060s are going to be feeding a signal to the d:vice thats 10dB hotter
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: faninor on April 21, 2019, 09:10:52 PM
When you're taping a loud show with 4061s would you be hard pressed to keep the peaks well under -10dB, or does the d:vice just not provide that much headroom in your experience?

You won't find me stack taping, but I've been using 4060s for nearly 10 years and have only encountered 2 or 3 shows where the SPL went beyond what they could handle. Ideally I would simply swap out my Tascam recorder for the d:vice + iPhone, but some of the early comments from 4060 users indicated that they were experiencing clipped waveforms using the d:vice with minimum gain settings in situations where running the 4060s into a portable recorder would have been fine.


Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 21, 2019, 09:18:20 PM
When you're taping a loud show with 4061s would you be hard pressed to keep the peaks well under -10dB, or does the d:vice just not provide that much headroom in your experience?

not hard pressed but they would be low. a lot of that is trying to understand the fuckery of how dpa app controls level (nothing like what support tells you, they dont understand it), and the voicerecorder pro app (with non-intuitive scales like VU mixed in with FSD). AFAIK if you make sure low cut is off in DPA app and never open it again, it stays off. and skipping dpa app and setting levels in apogee metarecorder seems accurate and reliable


also the fact that as remarkable a mic series that the 406x is, they do distort at lower levels than a full-size cap. even if their numbers dont show that (DPA uses 1% THD as their reporting standard which masks that relative to most mfrs numbers reported at 0.5%, esp for a mic like the 406x that has the low end extension, with the energy that is more prone to distort)



You won't find me stack taping, but I've been using 4060s for nearly 10 years and have only encountered 2 or 3 shows where the SPL went beyond what they could handle. Ideally I would simply swap out my Tascam recorder for the d:vice + iPhone, but some of the early comments from 4060 users indicated that they were experiencing clipped waveforms using the d:vice with minimum gain settings in situations where running the 4060s into a portable recorder would have been fine.
[/quote]
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 22, 2019, 06:23:38 PM
4060s are the problem. you need 4061s for a loud show. the 4060 COREs might work (reduces clipping at mic at high SPLs)..

The legacy version and CORE version actually have the same max-SPL specification (clipping level). CORE produces less distortion for any given level below that max-SPL point.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on April 23, 2019, 05:23:00 PM
even if their numbers dont show that (DPA uses 1% THD as their reporting standard which masks that relative to most mfrs numbers reported at 0.5%, esp for a mic like the 406x that has the low end extension, with the energy that is more prone to distort)

I wouldn't say DPA is masking anything; they give you all the numbers you need to interpret the specification.  Personally, I think 1% is a pretty good reference point for THD, as it is commonly cited as the threshold of audibility.  The math to calculate 0.5% (or another value for that matter) is really straightforward and simple as well.  There are other companies that also use 1% (Audio-Technica and Sanken, for example) and some don't specify this at all, such as Sennheiser (or, at least, they make it very difficult to find)...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 23, 2019, 05:49:44 PM
Cool can you calc out the 0.5% levels for us? or show us how to? Im not sure how to do this, and it would be good to have apples to apples numbers.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on April 24, 2019, 11:46:11 AM
It’s linear, so if you double (half) one parameter, the other also doubles (halves). There is a page on the Sengpiel site about this. I’ll try to find it when I am in front of the computer again.

< 1% @ 123 dB SPL ~ < 0.5% @ 117 dB SPL. Still hard to compare because of that “less than” sign...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 24, 2019, 11:49:49 AM
i guess we'll have to treat "less than" as "equal" in this case between the various mfs, its all we got :)

i wasnt aware that distortion was linear

DPA's own promo stuff doesnt show distortion as linear under 1% (even though its a hypothetical graph for demonstration purposes. might as well call it a cartoon as either axis could be linear or logarithmic, hard to tell)

(https://cdn.dpamicrophones.com/media/images/landing-page/campaign/large/core-curve-distortion-1-900.jpg)

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on April 24, 2019, 12:15:05 PM
Well, I could be mistaken. It wouldn’t be the first time! I’ll try to find the reference...

P.S. Time for a new thread.

[EDIT TO ADD:]

See this post (https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/how-to-read-microphone-specifications) on the Microphone University section of DPA’s site.

Quote from: DPA Microphone University
In general, the distortion of a circular diaphragm will double with a 6 dB increase of the input level, so you can calculate other levels of THD by using this factor.

With the wrinkle that the 406x mics don’t have circular diaphragms...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 25, 2019, 04:20:28 PM
interesting

they also spec "At DPA, we specify the SPL for 1% THD, measured at 1 kHz. This figure is important to know as it forms the basis for calculating the dynamic range of a microphone. Dynamic range is expressed as the difference between the level at which a THD of 1% occur (at 1 kHz), and the noise floor (self-noise of the microphone, RMS A-weighted).

again the massive low-frequency energy that the 406xs see due to their response will probably make them distort before a directional mic of same sensitivity spec at 1KHz. note that the larger omnis like 4006 and 4007 are 20 db higher in max SPL

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on April 25, 2019, 06:07:23 PM
^ Interesting point!  Might explain the 4060 distorting thing when SPLs don't seem to be high enough to reach the 1% distortion spec threshold.

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on April 25, 2019, 06:19:13 PM
looks like measurement at 1kHz is according to IEC standard

https://schoeps.de/en/knowledge/knowledge-base/technische-grundlagen/maximum-sound-pressure-level.html

the same standard probably suggests that the level of measured distortion must be stated (as xxx dB-SPL at 0.5% or at 1%, etc)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on May 05, 2019, 02:07:53 PM
using my dvice again after a while waiting for my new 6061s, and just wanted to confirm app settings. I'm using the shure motiv app to record - am I using the DPA app for any of the settings, or is gain overwritten by whatever recording app you use?

Really wish DPA would just have their app record as well...

oh well - the shure app seems to be working well.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 05, 2019, 04:19:16 PM
app is inconsistent for me. they say it does a bunch of things like prevent input overload, etc. with level-adjusting apps like voicerecorderpro and metarecorder it seems to be overridden functionally

i open it up to make sure it sees both mics and the HPF is off, levels are ganged approriately (stereo vs dual) then close it and use apogee metarecorder to adjust levels.

its kinda  frustrating that support cant explain exactly how it works, if there is a unity gain, and the best settings to set levels. they must have farmed out both hardware and software on this one.

it took a week or so to get an answer from TPTB on whether the d:vice is synchronous, adaptive, or asynchronous. I got this answer and told them to ask again just in case there was a typo or something lost in translation. was hoping the class II operation was asynchronous or at least adaptive. i have heard a click now and again in some recordings but hard to tell if that was just some room noise or something else, not necessarily clock adjusting

The answer from our tech team is;
By connection to PC USB Audio class I is used, in synchronous mode
By connection to Iphone USB Audio class II is used, in synchronous mode


a little background on USB audio from Cambridge

Synchronous USB DAC is the lowest quality of the three often used in low end products, so none of ours course! (that’s right, we’re being smug!) These accept the packets of data whenever the data sends them causing glitches every few seconds due to the differences between the two clocks.

Adaptive is where the DAC constantly adjusts its clock so that it can accept the data being sent from the computer whenever it sends them. The constant adapting of the DAC’s clock means that there is no continuous, accurate master clock in the DAC, which causes jitter in the audio stream.

In both of the above the computer dictates the timing of the data packets being sent.

Asynchronous – this is the most complex to implement but it is a huge improvement on the other types. This is because it requests the data packets to be sent in time with its own clock’s timing, thus providing the lowest jitter and sounding by far the best.


Is jitter in this setup something to be concerned about? hard to say. The effect of jitter seems to be a function of your playback setup as well.

From John Siau (Benchmark), answering in response to feeding DAC1 class 1 usb and also a discussion of playback jitter reduction (emphasis mine):

Up until Windows 7, asynchronous USB interfaces offered no advantages other than a possible reduction in jitter for DACs that lacked proper jitter attenuation.  The Benchmark DACs have excellent jitter attenuation, and the asynchronous interface offered absolutely no improvement in jitter performance.  The jitter rejection is nearly perfect in both cases.

The V-link will work well if it passes 24-bit audio, and supports the sample rates you are playing.  Jitter is never a concern with any Benchmark converter and this means that the v-link's relatively poor-quality synthesized clock will not be an issue.


Doug Oade (again emphasis mine):

The fact jitter will be at unacceptable levels simply demands you use a DAC with an async USB input. That will reduce jitter to the DAC clock's jitter. S/PDIF, which is supported by the controller, has a more stable clock easing the requirements of the DAC. But even a very stable S/PDIF clock in a portable ADC can be improved by reclocking. I use an Apogee Big Ben for that, when needed, in my studio but a high end DAC with an async USB input outperforms the Big Ben. All high end DAC manufacturers now offer async USB inputs with femtosecond accurate clocks. The difference is easy to hear.


i have a tenuous understanding of the effects of jitter, but if you have jitter in the input portion of the recording, how is this clock jitter not a permanent artifact of the recording. in other words, if the data is written 'wrong', how can it be 'read right' later?

and if sound is so dependent on the playback device (which most people in the world are listening on low end equipment, phones, car stereos, computers with dubious interfaces, integrated devices, etc), would it be wise to "clean your clock" by feeding it through a high-end dac>balanced interconnects>high-end low-jitter ADC like an AD2K etc.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 05, 2019, 10:54:58 PM
reading back a bit and some people mentioned fear of 4060s overloading d:vie in loud situations. if youre in this situation run the HPF in d:vice app it will take that low end energy out and drop your peak levels by several dB

ive run my 4061s at absolute minimum levels (with no HPF) to good results. mic noise is greater than d:vice S/N so no harm in normalizing later. 4060s id be running at lowest levels i can in all cases

i have a pair of microdot legacy (non-core) 4061s ill be experimenting with now and again
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on May 05, 2019, 11:18:25 PM
reading back a bit and some people mentioned fear of 4060s overloading d:vie in loud situations. if youre in this situation run the HPF in d:vice app it will take that low end energy out and drop your peak levels by several dB

ive run my 4061s at absolute minimum levels (with no HPF) to good results. mic noise is greater than d:vice S/N so no harm in normalizing later. 4060s id be running at lowest levels i can in all cases

i have a pair of microdot legacy (non-core) 4061s ill be experimenting with now and again

I think the monitoring in these apps leaves a bit to be desired. When recording magpie salute last summer it looked like I was going way over, but it ended up ok.

That said, with the 4060/6060’s that’s a good tip.

With the 4061/6061’s...I think those into a dvice can take an awful lot. (Clearly need more science backing this up!)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on May 07, 2019, 08:44:43 PM
app is inconsistent for me. they say it does a bunch of things like prevent input overload, etc. with level-adjusting apps like voicerecorderpro and metarecorder it seems to be overridden functionally

i open it up to make sure it sees both mics and the HPF is off, levels are ganged approriately (stereo vs dual) then close it and use apogee metarecorder to adjust levels.

its kinda  frustrating that support cant explain exactly how it works, if there is a unity gain, and the best settings to set levels. they must have farmed out both hardware and software on this one.

it took a week or so to get an answer from TPTB on whether the d:vice is synchronous, adaptive, or asynchronous. I got this answer and told them to ask again just in case there was a typo or something lost in translation. was hoping the class II operation was asynchronous or at least adaptive. i have heard a click now and again in some recordings but hard to tell if that was just some room noise or something else, not necessarily clock adjusting

The answer from our tech team is;
By connection to PC USB Audio class I is used, in synchronous mode
By connection to Iphone USB Audio class II is used, in synchronous mode


a little background on USB audio from Cambridge

Synchronous USB DAC is the lowest quality of the three often used in low end products, so none of ours course! (that’s right, we’re being smug!) These accept the packets of data whenever the data sends them causing glitches every few seconds due to the differences between the two clocks.

Adaptive is where the DAC constantly adjusts its clock so that it can accept the data being sent from the computer whenever it sends them. The constant adapting of the DAC’s clock means that there is no continuous, accurate master clock in the DAC, which causes jitter in the audio stream.

In both of the above the computer dictates the timing of the data packets being sent.

Asynchronous – this is the most complex to implement but it is a huge improvement on the other types. This is because it requests the data packets to be sent in time with its own clock’s timing, thus providing the lowest jitter and sounding by far the best.


Is jitter in this setup something to be concerned about? hard to say. The effect of jitter seems to be a function of your playback setup as well.

From John Siau (Benchmark), answering in response to feeding DAC1 class 1 usb and also a discussion of playback jitter reduction (emphasis mine):

Up until Windows 7, asynchronous USB interfaces offered no advantages other than a possible reduction in jitter for DACs that lacked proper jitter attenuation.  The Benchmark DACs have excellent jitter attenuation, and the asynchronous interface offered absolutely no improvement in jitter performance.  The jitter rejection is nearly perfect in both cases.

The V-link will work well if it passes 24-bit audio, and supports the sample rates you are playing.  Jitter is never a concern with any Benchmark converter and this means that the v-link's relatively poor-quality synthesized clock will not be an issue.


Doug Oade (again emphasis mine):

The fact jitter will be at unacceptable levels simply demands you use a DAC with an async USB input. That will reduce jitter to the DAC clock's jitter. S/PDIF, which is supported by the controller, has a more stable clock easing the requirements of the DAC. But even a very stable S/PDIF clock in a portable ADC can be improved by reclocking. I use an Apogee Big Ben for that, when needed, in my studio but a high end DAC with an async USB input outperforms the Big Ben. All high end DAC manufacturers now offer async USB inputs with femtosecond accurate clocks. The difference is easy to hear.


i have a tenuous understanding of the effects of jitter, but if you have jitter in the input portion of the recording, how is this clock jitter not a permanent artifact of the recording. in other words, if the data is written 'wrong', how can it be 'read right' later?

and if sound is so dependent on the playback device (which most people in the world are listening on low end equipment, phones, car stereos, computers with dubious interfaces, integrated devices, etc), would it be wise to "clean your clock" by feeding it through a high-end dac>balanced interconnects>high-end low-jitter ADC like an AD2K etc.

I’m going to have to wrap my head around all this...

Side note, I’m about to tape a jazz show and Messing with settings - the levels set in the dpa app definitely seem To have an impact on the overall levels. So now it’s about finding unity I suppose...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on May 07, 2019, 10:24:55 PM
they do but you may be able to do this experiment (works with apogee app, which you can use for free to demo, 1 minute recordings)

set levels in dpa app to minimum - open apogee app, they are at minimum. adjust in apogee app to maximum, go back and see that they were boosted in dpa app as well

when i start messing with levels in both apps sometime level adjustment locks or shows weirdness, so i close dpa app once im happy with hpf and mono/stereo/dual settings
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: scottE on May 10, 2019, 10:55:15 AM
Perhaps strange question but is there any way to connect soundprofessionals  mics to the d:vice? Not on a big budget so step one would be getting d:vice and use it with the sp mics and then later on buying dpa mics if necessary

For example with this adapter: https://www.ebay.com/itm/MICROPHONE-ADAPTER-FOR-SENNHEISER-3-5mm-JACK-PLUG-TO-SCREW-ON-1-PIN-DPA-MICRODOT-/273220934619
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 03, 2019, 02:01:51 AM
did my first master/satellite with metarecorder and 2 d:vices last night

1. im 99% sure they are not TC or clock linked
2. i ran into unpredictable behavior which resulted in lost recording
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 07, 2019, 11:58:08 PM
another d:vice FAIL last night... it stopped recording several times in the middle of the show

i dont blame the d:vice or apogee metarecorder as much as my phone, a daily driver that has been 95% full for months with me clearing just enough space, just in time to record.. i found the limit. phone had been acting laggy in other respects recently as well.

will commission a $50 iphone SE, non-daily driver phone for future recordings. even the small 32GB versions are plenty enough for our purposes

its computer recording 101 all over again
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: heathen on June 08, 2019, 01:39:04 AM
another d:vice FAIL last night... it stopped recording several times in the middle of the show

i dont blame the d:vice or apogee metarecorder as much as my phone, a daily driver that has been 95% full for months with me clearing just enough space, just in time to record.. i found the limit. phone had been acting laggy in other respects recently as well.

will commission a $50 iphone SE, non-daily driver phone for future recordings. even the small 32GB versions are plenty enough for our purposes

its computer recording 101 all over again

Ipod Touch is another option.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on June 08, 2019, 03:21:43 AM
I can’t buy a touch as cheap as an iPhone
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: hardrain62 on July 27, 2019, 11:50:00 PM
So what's the current verdict on this? I feel like I have been waiting forever for there to be a reliable and pro-grade iOS interface for taping and this seems like it could be it. Honestly, the idea of  >:D with my iPhone is beyond alluring. Front door security will be an absolute breeze. I have my credit card out and I'm ready to treat myself to my first taping gear purchase in roughly 6-7 years. Going to pull the trigger on a pair of DPA 6061 and the d:vice. Talk me out of it or convince me!
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on July 28, 2019, 12:21:04 AM
So what's the current verdict on this?

its amazing and perhaps the best  >:D option out there. id consider 4061s over 6061s personally, 4061s are small enough and to shave an insignificant amount of size, youre spending more money for the slightly higher noise floor of the 6061s
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: detroit lightning on July 28, 2019, 11:11:03 AM
Yeah, paired with 4061s or 6061s, it’s pretty great. There are quirks, but no dealbreakers IMO.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 13, 2019, 10:35:41 PM
ran the 4011s (~90 deg, ~150mm) and 4061s (croakies) >:D together into (2) d:vices this weekend, stack taping  @ about 10 feet from stack which was about 10 feet high

4061: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bhOFJUNGaJvO9k7XJb7JuUatsvCN4h3r
4011: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xubzhfOPpk5LtQCGzgUpZueh9icqMFXI

did nothing but normalize them to same RMS level. They are edited almost exactly so you can ABX if you like



there seems to be some audible distortion on the louder parts, even though my levels were set appropriately. im not convinced the DPA hardware @2.5-2.7V under load provides enough voltage for high SPL applications. That voltage is the same with everything ive measured including d:vice, MMA6000, DAD6001, MPS6010). this is in contrast to aftermarket batt boxes like CS, etc that give caps 5-8V under load. DPA support is now a huge black hole since bruce myers left, i have no answer to the questions i asked them about powering MMP-G months ago

or it could just be the PA driven into distortion.....hard to tell since i dont have any non- d:vice source

ordered a church BB about 5 weeks ago... hoping it comes soon
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: audBall on August 14, 2019, 12:03:14 PM
Well, that’s somewhat unfortunate to hear.

I haven’t listened to the recordings, but did you encounter the distortion on both 4011 and 4061 sources?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: perks on August 14, 2019, 02:39:38 PM
ran the 4011s (~90 deg, ~150mm) and 4061s (croakies) >:D together into (2) d:vices this weekend, stack taping  @ about 10 feet from stack which was about 10 feet high

4061: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bhOFJUNGaJvO9k7XJb7JuUatsvCN4h3r
4011: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xubzhfOPpk5LtQCGzgUpZueh9icqMFXI

did nothing but normalize them to same RMS level. They are edited almost exactly so you can ABX if you like



there seems to be some audible distortion on the louder parts, even though my levels were set appropriately. im not convinced the DPA hardware @2.5-2.7V under load provides enough voltage for high SPL applications. That voltage is the same with everything ive measured including d:vice, MMA6000, DAD6001, MPS6010). this is in contrast to aftermarket batt boxes like CS, etc that give caps 5-8V under load. DPA support is now a huge black hole since bruce myers left, i have no answer to the questions i asked them about powering MMP-G months ago

or it could just be the PA driven into distortion.....hard to tell since i dont have any non- d:vice source

ordered a church BB about 5 weeks ago... hoping it comes soon

This is frustrating because I'd think the DPA hardware should be the best at dealing with high SPL situations. I know I cant argue with the results of the tests - it is what it is - but how can DPA sell preamp/batt boxes/interfaces that cant handle the high SPL's their mics are rated for? Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 14, 2019, 07:49:17 PM
I wish I could get an answer to that. It seems at this point their marketing and tech teams are completely separate from one another, and we have no access to the latter
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 15, 2019, 11:55:48 AM
Always good to see Jeffyfreak's samples and comps posted.  I've not listened yet, but since the primary question is if the distortion was from the PA or the DPA gear, I'm thinking out loud about ways to help determine that..

Are there any other sources available to compare with these two?
In the comparison between these two d:vice sources, do the audible distortion onsets and endpoints occur at exactly the same points in time? 
Is the distortion on both sources similar or different in nature?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 15, 2019, 04:14:49 PM
Always good to see Jeffyfreak's samples and comps posted.  I've not listened yet, but since the primary question is if the distortion was from the PA or the DPA gear, I'm thinking out loud about ways to help determine that..

Are there any other sources available to compare with these two?

no other sources other than those 2 d:vice sources. I'm seeing umphreys next weekend and im thinking of running the following comps:
4011>MMA d:vice vs 4011>MMP-C or MMP-E>mixpre6
or alternatively MK4 rig. Those are big outdoor venues not sure i can get it as loud as that club stack tape



In the comparison between these two d:vice sources, do the audible distortion onsets and endpoints occur at exactly the same points in time? 
Is the distortion on both sources similar or different in nature?

id say similar but it seems the 4061s always sound like that. as weve discussed before the spl limits of the 4061 are xx SPL *at 1khz* and it might be the low frequency energy overloading the mic

the d:vice has a selectable HPF but that would be post mic capsule so not sure if that would help.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 15, 2019, 04:24:55 PM
Nothing more than a gut instinct, yet my suspicion is the PA was distorting and both recordings capture that distortion cleanly.  I could easily be wrong however.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 15, 2019, 04:30:54 PM
Nothing more than a gut instinct, yet my suspicion is the PA was distorting and both recordings capture that distortion cleanly.  I could easily be wrong however.
hard to say, some of the other recordings like that was same band/soundman in a different venue. maybe he just likes to overload the PA wherever he goes

maybe its in my head. heres some other loud up close stack tapes

same aurora show as above, 4011
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ba7KjdkwHq-OQz6JYUouEhTVhB3nkruF

same aurora song from toronto last year 4061
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ki2UaKZ4Y-EWBtCJ4NQA06mjKFjhQrrP

death angel 4061
https://drive.google.com/open?id=13Fzul6aBtbMTkRQsskvtl28i40PsKT8S

umphreys 4061
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tbgZdf4N-o33reQ8n1VpHgpTcfxjzgl-

could it be that the dpa>dvice is just super transparent and unforgiving when capturing sound?

all of these were what i would consider LOUD, like i wouldnt stand there without earplugs

maybe i need to do a few shows with the HPF enabled and see if thats any better






Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: aaronji on August 15, 2019, 04:52:24 PM
I have a hard time believing that the MPS boxes, MMA6000 or phantom adapters don't provide sufficient voltage for the 4060 series. They have all been on the market for ages and used in almost every conceivable situation. If the d:vice provides similar power, I would guess that voltage to the caps is not the issue (at least for the 4061s). I do recall reading somewhere that the MMP cables reduce the maximum SPL, though.

ordered a church BB about 5 weeks ago... hoping it comes soon

Don't hold your breath! You might end up turning blue! Good luck, though. Seems like he comes through pretty quickly sometimes...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 15, 2019, 05:06:53 PM
I have a hard time believing that the MPS boxes, MMA6000 or phantom adapters don't provide sufficient voltage for the 4060 series. They have all been on the market for ages and used in almost every conceivable situation. If the d:vice provides similar power, I would guess that voltage to the caps is not the issue (at least for the 4061s). I do recall reading somewhere that the MMP cables reduce the maximum SPL, though.

ive never read that. the limited specs they provide suggest lower S/N but do not mention that max SPL is limited, so logically you would think it would mean similar max SPL and slightly higher noise floor.

one thing it does clearly state is that "Power supply (for full performance) 5V, 1 mA". I havent measured current, but every single DPA solution puts out 2.4-2.7V under load.

406x series also wants 5V minimum and both bruce myers and len have said these should be powered closer to 9V for "best performance" (highest SPL presumably)

again if there was ANY tech support at DPA we could answer this
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 15, 2019, 06:49:55 PM
Years ago I came across a little DPA-published table online indicating noise floor and max SPL for 4060 and 4061 through DAD6001 at various reduced phantom supply voltages.   I think I linked it here at TS somewhere. I've searched for it a couple times over the past couple years, locally on my HDD, here at TS and more broadly online, yet am unable to find it.  Granted, it indicated phantom supply voltages, but some sleuthing with a DAD6001, a switchable 48/24/12V phantom supply and voltmeter would allow one to correlate actual measured supply voltage out of the DAD6001 with the noise and max SPL values from that table.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 15, 2019, 07:55:07 PM
ive seen wildly different phantom voltages under load. i think my dr100mkiii dipped to the low 30s
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 15, 2019, 08:26:06 PM
Years ago I came across a little DPA-published table online indicating noise floor and max SPL for 4060 and 4061 through DAD6001 at various reduced phantom supply voltages. 

this?

(https://www.gollihurmusic.com/images/4099-specs_changes.jpg)

source: https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2531-DPA_D_VOTE_4099_B_CORE_UPRIGHT_BASS_MICROPHONE_AND_ACCESSORIES.html (https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2531-DPA_D_VOTE_4099_B_CORE_UPRIGHT_BASS_MICROPHONE_AND_ACCESSORIES.html)

note that output voltage changes

could we test some of these mics wth the fixed test tone generator based on output level?

i.e if output level is not increasing when increasing input voltage, we are gaining nothing?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 15, 2019, 09:16:16 PM
Very much like that, yet for 4060 and 4061 (I vaguely remember it going the other way, from low to high voltage left to right).

Your proposed test scenario makes sense to me at first blush.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 15, 2019, 09:52:36 PM
i feel like i need to get some alligator clips out and measure capsule voltage with C bodies vs E bodies vs G bodies
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 17, 2019, 01:41:59 PM
people who have used the d:vice with android, which recording app did you use?

there is no metarecorder for android, and reviews indicate that voice record pro is buggy

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.bejbej.voicerecordpro&hl=en_US

i wanted to experiment with this little guy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mini-4G-LTE-Smallest-Smartphone-K-TOUCH-I9Android8-1-3GB-32GB-Face-ID-Wifi/312701535499?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: lerond on August 17, 2019, 04:10:17 PM
I've used eXtream Software Development's USB Audio Recorder Pro <https://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/products/usb-audio-recorder-pro>, previously recommended somewhere here on Taperssection.

Seems to work OK, though it's not user-idiot proof.
Level-setting is a little touchy (easy to over/under shoot when making corrections)
Levels on the app seem to display more conservatively than what gets recorded (ie., I've ended up with minor unexpected clipping)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 19, 2019, 07:05:20 PM
i wanted to experiment with this little guy

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Mini-4G-LTE-Smallest-Smartphone-K-TOUCH-I9Android8-1-3GB-32GB-Face-ID-Wifi/312701535499?

Tiny is.  Still..  I continue bemusing ways to do 6 channels, and even using tiny phones sync'd with metarecorder-like-functionality the solution would seem unwieldy, fidgety and prone to problems.  I'm not yet motivated to move from my current 4 channel solution using 4-channel CA-UGLY>DR2d, and am back to wishing for a solution using a small battery-powered USB hub which would provide sufficient USB current for all three d:vices and aggregate them into a single phone and recording app.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 19, 2019, 07:30:52 PM
im trying out this will let you know

https://www.timecodesystems.com/products-home/ultrasyncblue/

it can sync metarecorder + some zoom models + some cameras or iphone camera apps

would be cool for multiple channel audio or stereo audio + multi cam video

maybe sound devices is listening, this company makes it seem like its easy to implement bluetooth timecode in firmware

manual:
https://support.timecodesystems.com/hc/en-us/categories/360000937491-UltraSync-Blue

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 19, 2019, 10:35:17 PM
alternatively d:vice works as a native usb audio app, why dont you build a raspberry pi and run multiple units that way? assuming they would use same clock...
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 20, 2019, 01:21:15 AM
for what its worth i like this Sandisk ixpand flash drive a lot, i have a 128gb

backup your recordings idirectly from metarecorder in the field in a few minutes, easy transfer to any computer later without special software. also autobackup of photos and contacts

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CIEBS74/ref=twister_B01CQDVL9C?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: Gutbucket on August 20, 2019, 09:01:03 AM
alternatively d:vice works as a native usb audio app, why dont you build a raspberry pi and run multiple units that way? assuming they would use same clock...

Might be the best route.  Especially if the raspberry pi can be fitted into a phone-looking case.
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on August 29, 2019, 12:45:26 AM
Always good to see Jeffyfreak's samples and comps posted.  I've not listened yet, but since the primary question is if the distortion was from the PA or the DPA gear, I'm thinking out loud about ways to help determine that..


stack taped um with the 4018/4011s>MMP-GS-d:vice
this night was pretty loud, i dont hear a ton of audible distortion (only have section tapes to comp)

tinyurl.com/um2019-08-23

im thinking my AURORA recordings with distortion might be an overly enthusiastic FOH engineer

Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: morst on August 29, 2019, 01:30:07 AM
would be cool for multiple channel audio or stereo audio + multi cam video
maybe sound devices is listening, this company makes it seem like its easy to implement bluetooth timecode in firmware
Incredibly cool notion but I'm afraid Bluetooth is not accurate enough to guarantee sync. Neither is WiFi for that matter. (Due to the fact that it's a collision domain)
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on October 08, 2019, 03:34:04 AM
multiple d:vices work on my computer as well as my netbook. something like this UMPC should be able to record 4 or 6 channels all synched to same internal clock. you do need an iphone with an app to set the levels and lock it (low seems to work best, zero to +6dB gain, as you have no way to stop it from peaking FSD once youre in windows, nothing i tried could control gain

https://www.amazon.com/Industry-Portable-Computer-Notebook-Graphics/dp/B07QYZHM8F
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: lerond on October 08, 2019, 03:08:29 PM
multiple d:vices work on my computer as well as my netbook. something like this UMPC should be able to record 4 or 6 channels all synched to same internal clock. you do need an iphone with an app to set the levels and lock it (low seems to work best, zero to +6dB gain, as you have no way to stop it from peaking FSD once youre in windows, nothing i tried could control gain

https://www.amazon.com/Industry-Portable-Computer-Notebook-Graphics/dp/B07QYZHM8F

multiple d:vices via a usb-c hub? Or some usb-c to usb-a converters?
Title: Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
Post by: jerryfreak on October 08, 2019, 03:38:12 PM
via the provided microUSB to USB-A cable