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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: dallman on February 25, 2019, 11:13:27 AM

Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dallman on February 25, 2019, 11:13:27 AM


Previous threads:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181803.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181803.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182278.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182278.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182573.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=182573.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=183580.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=183580.0)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186597.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186597.0)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: muj on February 26, 2019, 02:18:14 AM
..so are the mic pres and the ad conversion better than sd7xx series?


Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on February 26, 2019, 04:36:40 AM
I don’t know if I could hear the difference between the mixpre6 and 744t preamps, though the new ones measure "better."

Andyjah and I did a comp of the mixpre6 and the sonosax sx-r4 a few years ago, and while some preferred one over the other and almost everyone heard a difference, the consensus was that they were in the same league. I suspect the same would happen in a mixprex vs 7XX comp as well.

In any event, I'm suspicious about people who claim "night and day" differences between professional pre-amp "sound." Transducers and placement are going to affect the sound to a significantly higher degree. As such, I'd pick a deck based on feature set. Unless you need digi in/out, the mixpre series is going to be smaller, have more channels, easier to power, and more. The 7 series is discontinued at this point and outdated tech. Unless you need digi in/out.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Ronmac on February 26, 2019, 09:48:20 AM
788t and 702t are current products.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jcable77 on February 26, 2019, 01:22:29 PM
Same league? Like The Red Sox compared to the Orioles? I like my Mixpre 6 but I dont think Id go that far.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on February 26, 2019, 03:19:25 PM
Same league? Like The Red Sox compared to the Orioles? I like my Mixpre 6 but I dont think Id go that far.

https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/702t/specs
https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-6/specs

The Red Sox and Orioles have played 57 times in the last 3 seasons. Boston won 36 and Baltimore 21.
2018 Boston Payroll: $240 million; 2018 Baltimore payroll: $150 million

The Sonosax was vastly more expensive with regard to the mixpre6 than the Red Sox were to the Orioles. And yet, in a double blind comparison the inexpensive deck won,

In the poll (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=184892.0), 60% preferred the file which was eventually revealed to be the mixpre6, 22.5% preferred the file which was revealed to be the Sax, and 17.5% said, "No difference or equal quality."

Here's the problem:we don't listen blind.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jcable77 on February 26, 2019, 04:28:27 PM
Same league? Like The Red Sox compared to the Orioles? I like my Mixpre 6 but I dont think Id go that far.

https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/702t/specs
https://www.sounddevices.com/products/recorders/mixpre-6/specs

The Red Sox and Orioles have played 57 times in the last 3 seasons. Boston won 36 and Baltimore 21.
2018 Boston Payroll: $240 million; 2018 Baltimore payroll: $150 million

The Sonosax was vastly more expensive with regard to the mixpre6 than the Red Sox were to the Orioles. And yet, in a double blind comparison the inexpensive deck won,

In the poll (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=184892.0), 60% preferred the file which was eventually revealed to be the mixpre6, 22.5% preferred the file which was revealed to be the Sax, and 17.5% said, "No difference or equal quality."

Here's the problem:we don't listen blind.
Touche’ ! Good points. I meant the Orioles and Sox last year, but the stats you pulled up make your point completely. I didnt check out the thread, or the comp, as Im not a big fan of Phish anymore, or Garry, or Shoeps, or MSG really. I know Andy tends to run on the lighter side with more headroom, not a negative statement, but I would think to really get a grasp of the difference in the pre’s I would love to hear a comp of the two really hot as a pair of room mics or drum overheads. Just an opinion, but 100’ away in the “OTS” at msg wouldnt really prove much to me. And again, thats completely just my opinion and not trying to hack anything up. I find my mp6 to be a bit on the light side with not as much depth as my 302 or mix pre D have. I think its the Lundahl’s that Make the difference but Inhonestly cant go any deeper into that technically. The one thing I keep finding about the mp6 is the”flavor” as its called here. It tends to add “flavor” to low mids too much IMO. The other SD gear I have doesnt seem to add as much, or is just more pleasant to my ears. As far as the mp6 sounding better than the 7xx series I found a good statement I kind of agree with on GS. They comped the 744t, 788, and mp3. They rated the  744t first, 788, then mp3.
“Well... my partner said "The MixPre3 would be a great recorder for a beginner, because it makes the performance sound better than it actually is." Not a very flattering comment when judging a recorder

Basically, this recorder had noticeable "smearing" that was particularly present in the low mids. It also had this effect of "smoothing over" finger noise and other subtle transients that, for me at least, give a performance its mojo.

Were the differences huge? Let's put it this way; unless you were a trained audio pro, probably not. Would the MixPre3 suffice? Probably would do just fine for dialog recording--but for my money, I wouldn't use this recorder for professional music recording”. 
  As far as the MP’s being nicer than the RX4 I dont think I could ever really agree with them ever being in the same ballpark. Again just an opinion, but until Andy sells me his Rx4 Ill just have to wait to prove myself right or wrong. Generally speaking sonosax makes a better sounding pre-amp, hands down.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on February 26, 2019, 05:06:48 PM
The sax recorder cost thousands more than an MP6 and you will never get $3000 more in better sound quality out of that recorder.  Noah's comp proves that.  I'm not trying to split hairs, but of a lot of what sounds good to one person is personal preference. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: yug du nord on February 26, 2019, 05:19:43 PM
Hey Noah....  what is your impression of the 02IB compared to the MP6 pre's?

I just re-looked at your sig..  is it supposed to read 02IUB??
If so, I'm not familiar with that variation of VMS.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on February 26, 2019, 05:27:01 PM
I went from a VMS 5U to a Mixpre6 and it is a different sound, but I wouldn't say one sounds better than the other, but different.  It has been so long since I owned the VMS02ib I would have to go back and listen to recordings to comment on sound. 

Hey Noah....  what is your impression of the 02IB compared to the MP6 pre's?

I just re-looked at your sig..  is it supposed to read 02IUB??
If so, I'm not familiar with that variation of VMS.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jcable77 on February 26, 2019, 05:30:39 PM
The sax recorder cost thousands more than an MP6 and you will never get $3000 more in better sound quality out of that recorder.  Noah's comp proves that.  I'm not trying to split hairs, but of a lot of what sounds good to one person is personal preference.
That whole comp thing was completely irrelevant anyway. The dude asked if the mp6 sounded better than the 7xx series.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rigpimp on February 26, 2019, 05:33:17 PM
In.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on February 26, 2019, 06:00:36 PM
Hey Noah....  what is your impression of the 02IB compared to the MP6 pre's?

I just re-looked at your sig..  is it supposed to read 02IUB??
If so, I'm not familiar with that variation of VMS.

My impression is that I love it. It makes me feel good about myself and my gear to run a small, Schoeps, kcy only pre (the Schoeps VMS 02iub is the KCY only version of that gear), which integrates well into my rig. It runs forever on AA, fits in my bag perfectly, and makes my signature on ts.com even sexier that it had been before.

Basically, now that I run it, I think my (proverbial) penis is thicker and longer.  :guitarist:  :headphones: :cheers:

But this is exactly my larger point: Despite the fact that I now use the VMS for my "primary" pair of microphones, I'm skeptical that I actually hear a clear, unambiguous, better/worse difference between the mixpre6 and the VMS, or even the littlebox I used to run in its place, especially from an OTS in Madison Square Garden, etc. I might hear some subtle differences, not unlike with the mixpre6 vs. sonosax comp. The consensus there was, that, despite slight personal preference, both sources sounded similar and both very good. Furthermore, we were also listening to two different AD stages. I'm excited to run the VMS because it allows me to run two more microphones into 5/6 in a small unit.

I think what is actually going here is that owners of the 7XX, who (justifiably) love their gear, are loathe to admit that a newer, less expensive, more "pro-sumer" option might compete with their beloved "pro" gear. Conversely, owners of the Mixpre line (like me), who love their gear, are excited to own  something which competes with (beats?) more expensive gear. I can't speak for Andy, but I was relieved that I "preferred" the sound of the deck I own. (For the record, we each preferred the gear we own). But that tells me that it's more about me than the gear.

None of us listens blind. We judge "sound" not only on what our ears hear, but how our brains interpret what we hear. And our brains are affected by things like how much I paid, the brand name, who else runs this gear, how pretty the lights are, etc.

Dsatz is on record here stating that with Schoeps microphones, basically all professionally designed microphone preamplifiers have essentially the same "sound." I like the VMS for all kinds of reasons. It's "sound?" I don't know. But again it makes me happy to run it.

I think there are real reasons to buy a 744t, a Sonosax, a Nagra or a Zoom over the mixpre6. These include: size and shape, powering options, in/out options, number of channels, multiple sd card recording, brand name, resale value, metering, and much more. But none of those things are about pure "sound."

Just as in "Audiophile" circles, and "pro-sound" internet groups, tapers love to tout the "sound" of their gear in comparison with other brands. I do it too. We all do. But I'm really skeptical of claims like this:

As far as the MP’s being nicer than the RX4 I dont think I could ever really agree with them ever being in the same ballpark.... Generally speaking sonosax makes a better sounding pre-amp, hands down.

The comp we did showed definitively that when it comes to "what we do," (use expensive microphones to record PA systems from far away) the Mixpre6 and the Sonosax are indeed in the same ballpark, and, indeed, more people preferred the SD to the Sonosax. That doesn't mean that it's wrong to buy a Sonosax. It's also a great piece of gear. I listen to Andy's tapes all the time.

p.s. this is the best place on the internet, where people with different points of view argue with respect with one another. I'm proud to be part of this community.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on February 26, 2019, 06:03:34 PM
The sax recorder cost thousands more than an MP6 and you will never get $3000 more in better sound quality out of that recorder.  Noah's comp proves that.  I'm not trying to split hairs, but of a lot of what sounds good to one person is personal preference.
That whole comp thing was completely irrelevant anyway. The dude asked if the mp6 sounded better than the 7xx series.

It's not irrelevant, it's a useful analogy. It demonstrated that the mixpre6 is in the same league as much more expensive gear. It thus stands to reason, that the mixpre6 is in the same league as the 7 series, and that any audible differences will be subtle, if you can hear them at all. That's relevant.

Again, if you like the feature set of one deck over another, by all means buy the deck I don't own. It's a free country.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jcable77 on February 26, 2019, 08:19:29 PM
Im going to see if I can get my buddy to use his 744t this weekend and Ill run the mp6 with the same mics. See what we can come up with. Im curious too. Probably wont be from very “far away” but I think It’ll be fun to check out.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on February 26, 2019, 08:28:03 PM
Im going to see if I can get my buddy to use his 744t this weekend and Ill run the mp6 with the same mics. See what we can come up with. Im curious too. Probably wont be from very “far away” but I think It’ll be fun to check out.

Perfect. Try to get both pairs into the identical configuration and as close to one another as possible. Ideally, use the same brand and length of cable, same shockmounts and windscreens as well.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: beenjammin on February 27, 2019, 08:33:35 PM
Apologies if this has been mentioned. I did the relevant searches, which turned up nothing.

Does anyone know if the MP series puts out 5mA at P48? I have a mike that requires 5mA and is exhibiting odd behavior with a recorder that puts out 4mA.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Ronmac on February 28, 2019, 10:27:48 AM
An easy search on SD website:

Quote
The MixPre Kashmir preamps provide full-specification phantom power (up to 10 mA at 48 V) for true condenser microphones. The combination of their high gain, low noise, low distortion Kashmir circuitry plus full specification phantom power means that the MixPre recorders require more power than recorders with lower gain, lower performance preamp topologies.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: fozzy on March 01, 2019, 11:14:34 PM
This got lost in the last thread but I am still looking for someone to measure the output voltage from the MX-L battery sled when one and two batteries are attached.  I would like to see if this is native 8.0-6.8v from the L series packs, 16-14v in a series or if it is knocked down to ~5v usb voltage with some sort of built in regulator. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: LiveOnTape on March 07, 2019, 02:36:14 PM
This got lost in the last thread but I am still looking for someone to measure the output voltage from the MX-L battery sled when one and two batteries are attached.  I would like to see if this is native 8.0-6.8v from the L series packs, 16-14v in a series or if it is knocked down to ~5v usb voltage with some sort of built in regulator.

I measured mine last night.  The batteries are wired in parallel, allowing for hot-swaps if you're running really long takes. 

There looks to be a little compartment door held on by a screw that could feasibly house a regulator, but I didn't want to dig in too deep and potentially mess the sled up. 

The output (not under load) measured at 8.1vDC, which is the exact voltage of the higher of the two batteries.  With that battery removed, the output measures 7.9vDC, the same as that battery that's inserted.  Seams to me that it's just a parallel hardwired pass through. 

When changing sleds between the 4xAA and the Sony batts, the MX6 pops up with a message saying something along the lines of "battery voltage mismatch. Switch to Alkaline/Lithium?"  Same thing happens if you load a preset that was saved with a different battery than what's in there now.  So the device is measuring/regulating the voltages inside. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on April 04, 2019, 09:43:10 AM
I'm not sure how many people check the third party sales section of TS, but there is a sale that is of interest to MixPre owners. Anker battery pacls with USB-C output for 30% off. I use this one every time and am considering grabbing a new one for festivals.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=190076.0
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on April 08, 2019, 12:12:40 PM
New firmware is up (v.3.03)...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on April 08, 2019, 12:35:45 PM
not it!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: checht on April 08, 2019, 12:38:14 PM
^ exactly. Still running 2.x, I don't need no stinkin' preroll, hit record 20 minutes before music starts anyway...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on April 08, 2019, 01:17:55 PM
Anybody know what happened to the Wingman app page on the SD website?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on April 08, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Anybody know what happened to the Wingman app page on the SD website?

I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me if they released an updated app to coincide with the Scorpio release.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on April 08, 2019, 01:26:34 PM
Anybody know what happened to the Wingman app page on the SD website?

I'm not sure but it wouldn't surprise me if they released an updated app to coincide with the Scorpio release.

You'd think they'd leave the page up with previous releases as a marker.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on April 08, 2019, 03:01:31 PM
Winman is still there under accessories but they seemed to have lost the links to it.

https://www.sounddevices.com/product/wingman/

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on April 08, 2019, 03:31:21 PM
^ exactly. Still running 2.x, I don't need no stinkin' preroll, hit record 20 minutes before music starts anyway...

no need for preroll but I'm on v3.02 without issue.  the reason I went to it was the headphone preset issue which it fixed.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: borjam on April 08, 2019, 04:50:50 PM
Their new website is a chaos. The specifications of the MixPre Three mention balanced line out on TA3 connectors, included 8 AA battery sled, etc.

I guess they will improve it. But I preferred the old one, it was very nicely organized.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: junkyardt on April 08, 2019, 08:49:57 PM
Their new website is a chaos.

Yeah wtf. All their old links are broken, plus they used to have multiple old firmware versions available for download, in case there was a problem and you wanted to roll back. Now they only seem to offer the latest (3.03). But most importantly, I can no longer find instructions on HOW to update the firmware. I haven't done it for a few months and I forgot how. Googling doesn't turn anything up. Anyone have the instructions saved, or know of a link where they're still posted?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on April 08, 2019, 08:53:23 PM
Their new website is a chaos.

Yeah wtf. All their old links are broken, plus they used to have multiple old firmware versions available for download, in case there was a problem and you wanted to roll back. Now they only seem to offer the latest (3.03). But most importantly, I can no longer find instructions on HOW to update the firmware. I haven't done it for a few months and I forgot how. Googling doesn't turn anything up. Anyone have the instructions saved, or know of a link where they're still posted?

I used the wayback machine from archive.org (https://web.archive.org/web/20180731054840/http://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware) to get this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please read and follow the steps below carefully. You may want to print them before upgrading firmware.

Sound Devices recommends saving a setup file prior to loading new firmware.

Prepare to Update

Download the MixPre firmware file MixPre_2.21.zip using the link below.
From the zip archive, extract the file within named MixPre_2.21.prg file. Copy this .prg file to the root level (not within a folder) of an SD memory card that has already been formatted by the MixPre recorder.
Power the MixPre via USB-C to external DC power or via "fully charged" batteries. Do not perform the update with low batteries or unstable power sources.
Insert the SD card with the .prg file.
Power on the MixPre.
Navigate to System > Update Firmware and follow the on-screen instructions.
When the update is complete the recorder will power cycle itself. The version number MixPre_2.21 will be displayed briefly on the splash screen while booting up. A message box appears "Firmware updated successfully Version:MixPre_2.21". Tap "OK". Please note any changes or additions to the main Menu (if applicable). Consult product documentation for details.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on April 08, 2019, 09:40:51 PM
they used to have multiple old firmware versions available for download, in case there was a problem and you wanted to roll back. Now they only seem to offer the latest (3.03).

um did you click "Show Previous Releases" right in the middle at the bottom of the page?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: junkyardt on April 08, 2019, 10:44:13 PM


I used the wayback machine from archive.org (https://web.archive.org/web/20180731054840/http://www.sounddevices.com/support/downloads/mixpres-firmware) to get this:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you!

they used to have multiple old firmware versions available for download, in case there was a problem and you wanted to roll back. Now they only seem to offer the latest (3.03).

um did you click "Show Previous Releases" right in the middle at the bottom of the page?

perhaps we’re looking at different pages? the only page i can find is

https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-v3-03/

and there’s no link to previous releases that i can see.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: borjam on April 09, 2019, 02:11:23 AM

perhaps we’re looking at different pages? the only page i can find is

https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-v3-03/

and there’s no link to previous releases that i can see.
Yes, as I said, confusing. Quite a chaos!

I guess someone from Sound Devices will monitor this thread.

Try main website -> Support -> Downloads -> Select product (MixPre-3) and at the bottom you have a "Show Previous Releases" offering all of them from v1.01.

Still, the new website needs a lot of work. And in my opinion the former one was really good.

@paulisaacs!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Sebastian on April 09, 2019, 04:24:06 AM
Their new website is a chaos. The specifications of the MixPre Three mention balanced line out on TA3 connectors, included 8 AA battery sled, etc.

I guess they will improve it. But I preferred the old one, it was very nicely organized.

This is what happens when the marketing department takes over. I hate their new web site. Everything is buried deep down and you have to click several times to get the information you want.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: borjam on April 09, 2019, 05:55:34 AM
This is what happens when the marketing department takes over. I hate their new web site. Everything is buried deep down and you have to click several times to get the information you want.
I hope they won't follow the path of the "Music Tribe" group (or whatever is called) that holds the prize for the stupidest and most useless pro audio websites in history.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Sebastian on April 11, 2019, 03:23:38 AM
Taped a show with v3.03 yesterday without any problems.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: junkyardt on April 11, 2019, 10:57:20 AM
Taped a show with v3.03 yesterday without any problems.

same here
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on April 14, 2019, 11:03:24 AM
My MP6 froze last night recording 4 tracks using v 3.03. So far I can't open the file either. I had to pull the battery to get it to shut down.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on April 14, 2019, 12:13:30 PM
Damn, still using 2.21!  That sucks

My MP6 froze last night recording 4 tracks using v 3.03. So far I can't open the file either. I had to pull the battery to get it to shut down.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on April 14, 2019, 12:16:46 PM
Anyone recommend a 1 foot usb c > usb c??  Doesn't need to be right angle. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on April 14, 2019, 12:39:47 PM
My MP6 froze last night recording 4 tracks using v 3.03. So far I can't open the file either. I had to pull the battery to get it to shut down.

I'm on 3.02 and had a similar issue Friday night.  I hit stop so recording was saved but then I went to power it down it would not turn off.  Had to disconnect the usb then pull the battery sled (aa as backup) to get it to power down.  I forgot till this happened but I recall something similar when I first got the deck and was testing battery life.  That would have been a much earlier firmware.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on April 14, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
My MP6 froze last night recording 4 tracks using v 3.03. So far I can't open the file either. I had to pull the battery to get it to shut down.

I'm on 3.02 and had a similar issue Friday night.  I hit stop so recording was saved but then I went to power it down it would not turn off.  Had to disconnect the usb then pull the battery sled (aa as backup) to get it to power down.  I forgot till this happened but I recall something similar when I first got the deck and was testing battery life.  That would have been a much earlier firmware.

I did figure out how to get it to open in Wave Agent and thankfully the whole recording is there! The meters and deck seized up, but it still kept recording.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on April 15, 2019, 10:14:41 AM
With the Anker batteries recommended by Sound devices does the usb c insert completely into the jack.  On mine it doesn't there is some of the metal usb c part that sticks out.  I'm thinking that shouldn't be happening.  On another usb c battery I have the cable sets fully inserted, but that battery doesn't get a green light with the mixpre6.  Thanks
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on April 15, 2019, 11:19:50 AM
With the Anker batteries recommended by Sound devices does the usb c insert completely into the jack.  On mine it doesn't there is some of the metal usb c part that sticks out.  I'm thinking that shouldn't be happening.  On another usb c battery I have the cable sets fully inserted, but that battery doesn't get a green light with the mixpre6.  Thanks

I'm not 100% but I will be bringing mine to Billy Strings on Thursday and you are welcome to check it out.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Brian G on April 16, 2019, 08:24:27 AM
Anyone recommend a 1 foot usb c > usb c??  Doesn't need to be right angle.

A little shorter than a foot....but this is the one I have been using....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DNSYH7R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: IronFilm on April 17, 2019, 11:19:05 PM
Their new website is a chaos. The specifications of the MixPre Three mention balanced line out on TA3 connectors, included 8 AA battery sled, etc.

I guess they will improve it. But I preferred the old one, it was very nicely organized.

Sounds like they're getting it mixed up with the MixPre10T which has those specs.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on April 18, 2019, 01:11:37 AM
With the Anker batteries recommended by Sound devices does the usb c insert completely into the jack.  On mine it doesn't there is some of the metal usb c part that sticks out.  I'm thinking that shouldn't be happening.  On another usb c battery I have the cable sets fully inserted, but that battery doesn't get a green light with the mixpre6.  Thanks

That happened with mine too. At first it worked fine, but later on I had a few shows where it came loose and was only running on the AA's (which nearly ran out of juice). It never really came loose on the MP6 side, but it did on the battery side. I regulated that battery to phone duty.

I switched to this battery and it's been flawless. Cable goes in all the way. Plenty of power. I switched to another cable, but it was just one I had lying around.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XTRJJRM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on April 18, 2019, 07:57:49 AM
I switched to this battery and it's been flawless. Cable goes in all the way. Plenty of power. I switched to another cable, but it was just one I had lying around.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XTRJJRM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's the one I use.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on April 18, 2019, 09:14:24 AM
Same problem I had with mine!!  Time for a new battery.  Thanks

With the Anker batteries recommended by Sound devices does the usb c insert completely into the jack.  On mine it doesn't there is some of the metal usb c part that sticks out.  I'm thinking that shouldn't be happening.  On another usb c battery I have the cable sets fully inserted, but that battery doesn't get a green light with the mixpre6.  Thanks

That happened with mine too. At first it worked fine, but later on I had a few shows where it came loose and was only running on the AA's (which nearly ran out of juice). It never really came loose on the MP6 side, but it did on the battery side. I regulated that battery to phone duty.

I switched to this battery and it's been flawless. Cable goes in all the way. Plenty of power. I switched to another cable, but it was just one I had lying around.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XTRJJRM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on April 18, 2019, 09:16:20 AM
same
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jmitchell on April 18, 2019, 10:48:11 AM
I switched to this battery and it's been flawless. Cable goes in all the way. Plenty of power. I switched to another cable, but it was just one I had lying around.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XTRJJRM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's the one I use.

Me too.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on April 19, 2019, 04:04:49 PM
Thanks grabbed a few of those after borrowing one of Gordon's and it performed great!!  Much smaller and ligher as well.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ero3030 on April 19, 2019, 04:53:43 PM
https://www-bhphotovideo-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1348905-REG/hypergear_14155_usb_c_quick_charge.html/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bhphotovideo.com%2Fc%2Fproduct%2F1348905-REG%2Fhypergear_14155_usb_c_quick_charge.html
Been using these for quite some time without issues.  Ed
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on April 19, 2019, 04:59:24 PM
^ same battery everyone is referring to!!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ero3030 on April 19, 2019, 09:34:23 PM
^ same battery everyone is referring to!!

Funny,  wasn't really reading all the posts.  Nice to see peeps having good luck with them.  No one likes to waste money.  Ed
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: hoppedup on April 30, 2019, 02:32:51 PM
Joined the MixPre-6 team. I am spending more and taping less these days. This hobby sucks.  ;D
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on April 30, 2019, 02:34:34 PM
Joined the MixPre-6 team. I am spending more and taping less these days. This hobby sucks.  ;D

Yup. That's what it eventually evolves into.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on April 30, 2019, 08:11:54 PM
I make myself tape more when i get new shit!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on April 30, 2019, 08:33:54 PM
Me too.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on May 01, 2019, 12:03:56 PM
I make myself tape more when i get new shit!

Of course I now *need* to buy an FP-24 to run a third set of SDCs in the mixpre6...

HELP
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: So Many Roads on May 01, 2019, 01:35:20 PM
Perfect - I need to sell an FP-24 to help fund my MP-6 purchase!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Sebastian on May 01, 2019, 04:09:29 PM
Last night was the first time the MixPre-6 let me down. Took it and 8 freshly charged NiMH batteries to a show. After about an hour, it shut down due to low battery. I guess I need to run some tests now to see whether this was a one-off incident or if one of my batteries is dead.
Long story short: better also run a USB battery pack next time as a backup. On the bright side, the show I taped pretty much sucked, so not much is lost.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on May 01, 2019, 04:13:10 PM
Last night was the first time the MixPre-6 let me down. Took it and 8 freshly charged NiMH batteries to a show. After about an hour, it shut down due to low battery. I guess I need to run some tests now to see whether this was a one-off incident or if one of my batteries is dead.
Long story short: better also run a USB battery pack next time as a backup. On the bright side, the show I taped pretty much sucked, so not much is lost.

I've evolved to not trust AA batteries. I never run without the back-up.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: mccordo on May 01, 2019, 09:38:45 PM
Last night was the first time the MixPre-6 let me down. Took it and 8 freshly charged NiMH batteries to a show. After about an hour, it shut down due to low battery. I guess I need to run some tests now to see whether this was a one-off incident or if one of my batteries is dead.
Long story short: better also run a USB battery pack next time as a backup. On the bright side, the show I taped pretty much sucked, so not much is lost.

Neither my MixPre 3 or 6 has ever had a AA battery in them. I only use the Anker USB-C battery and can easily get 2 full 2-set shows off a single charge with a couple hours of power time left. I do have a pair of the Sony style batteries, but never bought the adapter for them.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lerond on May 03, 2019, 04:41:25 PM
I've evolved to not trust AA batteries. I never run without the back-up.

After having a similar experience where a fairly new set of 8xAA's croaked with less than an hour runtime, I also switched over to a USB cell for regular duty. RAVPower RP-PB19 in case anyone cares.
But I leave a set of 4 AA's on the back of my MP-6 as a backup (good for times when I forget to plug in the USB cell until after powering up!), and recharge them about once a month or so.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on May 03, 2019, 04:45:13 PM
I've evolved to not trust AA batteries. I never run without the back-up.

After having a similar experience where a fairly new set of 8xAA's croaked with less than an hour runtime, I also switched over to a USB cell for regular duty. RAVPower RP-PB19 in case anyone cares.
But I leave a set of 4 AA's on the back of my MP-6 as a backup (good for times when I forget to plug in the USB cell until after powering up!), and recharge them about once a month or so.

Do you just use the stock Y cable that came with the unit for this battery pack? I have one of these and never tried it but if it works, it could be good as a backup.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on May 03, 2019, 06:20:51 PM
I've evolved to not trust AA batteries. I never run without the back-up.

After having a similar experience where a fairly new set of 8xAA's croaked with less than an hour runtime, I also switched over to a USB cell for regular duty. RAVPower RP-PB19 in case anyone cares.
But I leave a set of 4 AA's on the back of my MP-6 as a backup (good for times when I forget to plug in the USB cell until after powering up!), and recharge them about once a month or so.

Do you just use the stock Y cable that came with the unit for this battery pack? I have one of these and never tried it but if it works, it could be good as a backup.

You just need a usb-c male to male cable, the shorter the better.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: checht on May 03, 2019, 07:06:18 PM
^ yuppers
Also, the y cable has 1 more plug to mess up, and has been implicated in much weirdness.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on May 03, 2019, 08:21:29 PM
That power bank doesn't have a USB C port though, only micro USB and normal USB.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rippleish20 on May 03, 2019, 08:35:15 PM
The whole power thing has been revisited several times. Rwad the earlier parts of this thread and the mixpre power battery thread.

Summary

Don't use the y cable

If you want/insist on using a USB battery that doesnt have a USB-C output, understanding cables becomes important

The easiest battery to use ia USB-C battery and USB-c cable.

Eneloop AAs will get that 8 battery sled up to 3-5 hours
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on May 03, 2019, 10:07:32 PM
The whole power thing has been revisited several times. Rwad the earlier parts of this thread and the mixpre power battery thread.

Summary

Don't use the y cable

If you want/insist on using a USB battery that doesnt have a USB-C output, understanding cables becomes important

The easiest battery to use ia USB-C battery and USB-c cable.

Eneloop AAs will get that 8 battery sled up to 3-5 hours

^ What he said.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on May 03, 2019, 10:42:25 PM
I have two of the Anker batteries that SD recommends. I was curious on how the other poster got the other battery (that I just happen to have lying around) to work.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lerond on May 04, 2019, 03:30:40 AM
You just need a usb-c male to male cable, the shorter the better.

Bingo!
Doesn't get me full power, but I'm only running 2 channels of phantom, so works for my need.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on May 04, 2019, 07:54:00 AM
You just need a usb-c male to male cable, the shorter the better.

Bingo!
Doesn't get me full power, but I'm only running 2 channels of phantom, so works for my need.

If you can, get a USB battery pack that has USB-c output. With a USB-c to USB-c cable, I get 12 hours of full power on my MixPre 6 using 2 channels of phantom.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on May 14, 2019, 01:23:39 PM
Is the consensus that 3.03 is stable for "what we do?" I'm still on 2.21 and was going to update, but wanted to check first...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on May 15, 2019, 11:41:38 AM
I'm on 3.02 and as long as you don't use pre-roll it's fine.  I have no use for pre-roll and haven't tested but have seen reports of issues.....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on May 15, 2019, 12:06:24 PM
I'm on 3.02 and as long as you don't use pre-roll it's fine.  I have no use for pre-roll and haven't tested but have seen reports of issues.....

I had issues with pre-roll creating a small gap between files, so I reverted to 3.02 and have had no problems.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lovebuzz on June 04, 2019, 01:22:21 PM
Ugh, I haven't read all these threads but I had an issue withe MP6 last night.  I was recording room mics and stereo SBD signal.  CH 1-2 SBD, CH 3-4 Mic's.  At first I had 1-2 set to mic with phantom power and 3-4 line.  The first few minutes of  soundcheck has the SBD ok, however when I stopped the recorder and changed 3-4 to mic w/ phantom power and 1-2 to line the entire recording is the room mic's.  Ch1-6 are all room mic's.  I had used basic mode prior for an event last weekend and changed to custom last night.

Is this a user error or a glitch?  I haven't used the (new for me) mode settings much.  I usually leave it on advanced or custom, not sure which, but I don't use basic often.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on June 04, 2019, 01:40:56 PM
Sounds like a routing error. When I first got my MP6 I attached a battery pack and just screwed around with it for hours. I wanted to get to know it well enough that anything that came up I could handle. I used my phone MP3 player as the line in and my Naiant omnis as the P48 mics. I tried every combination I could think of. Then I made pre-sets for every combination of gear that I had. Unfortunately, I forgot some of the menu choices and will have to go back to re-learn them, as I've gotten lazy since I only deal with the pre-sets now.

Good luck. I'm sure someone with a better memory than mine can tell you what menu items address your issue.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dallman on June 04, 2019, 01:51:01 PM
Ugh, I haven't read all these threads but I had an issue withe MP6 last night.  I was recording room mics and stereo SBD signal.  CH 1-2 SBD, CH 3-4 Mic's.  At first I had 1-2 set to mic with phantom power and 3-4 line.  The first few minutes of  soundcheck has the SBD ok, however when I stopped the recorder and changed 3-4 to mic w/ phantom power and 1-2 to line the entire recording is the room mic's.  Ch1-6 are all room mic's.  I had used basic mode prior for an event last weekend and changed to custom last night.

Is this a user error or a glitch?  I haven't used the (new for me) mode settings much.  I usually leave it on advanced or custom, not sure which, but I don't use basic often.

Are you aware the recording is a poly file? Have you opened the file and looked at the individual tracks, and seen only 3-4 or only 1-2? Do the files all look identical? Did you record the mix also? Does that look identical?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lovebuzz on June 04, 2019, 02:11:53 PM
Sounds like a routing error.

Yeah, may be some glitch that when I changed line/mic settings it recorded 3-4 as all the tracks. Probably should have powered off the recorder.  The SBD and Mic levels displayed were different, but the recorded files are all the same.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lovebuzz on June 04, 2019, 03:41:29 PM
Ugh, I haven't read all these threads but I had an issue withe MP6 last night.  I was recording room mics and stereo SBD signal.  CH 1-2 SBD, CH 3-4 Mic's.  At first I had 1-2 set to mic with phantom power and 3-4 line.  The first few minutes of  soundcheck has the SBD ok, however when I stopped the recorder and changed 3-4 to mic w/ phantom power and 1-2 to line the entire recording is the room mic's.  Ch1-6 are all room mic's.  I had used basic mode prior for an event last weekend and changed to custom last night.

Is this a user error or a glitch?  I haven't used the (new for me) mode settings much.  I usually leave it on advanced or custom, not sure which, but I don't use basic often.

Are you aware the recording is a poly file? Have you opened the file and looked at the individual tracks, and seen only 3-4 or only 1-2? Do the files all look identical? Did you record the mix also? Does that look identical?

1-6 are all L/R room mic's.  I powered off the recorder between sets and set 2 is also all room mic's.

MP6 displays a note when changing modes that says "turn all knobs to off, expect channel changes..." ( I did not do that).  Still, the SBD signal was recorded when 1-2 were set at mic level with phantom power.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on June 04, 2019, 04:09:37 PM
Have you separated out the stereo pairs and listened to them or are you listening to the RAW WAV which combines all the tracks into one?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rippleish20 on June 04, 2019, 05:14:41 PM
I have to say I am a little confused about the details of hat you were doing.

You were basic mode recently. You switched to custom mode for this event. Did you chose everything advanced but gain basic, etc when doing so? Did you format the card so you didnt end up with some other preset? You then connected 1-2 to SBD even though phantom was on and the channels were set to Microphone? After soundcheck, you switched the microphones to 1-2  and the SBD patch to 1-2? After doing so, your polywav recording for 1-2 and 3-4 are only the from the microphones? No SBD? Are 1-2 and 3-4 duplicates of each other?

 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dallman on June 04, 2019, 07:19:26 PM

Are you aware the recording is a poly file? Have you opened the file and looked at the individual tracks, and seen only 3-4 or only 1-2? Do the files all look identical? Did you record the mix also? Does that look identical?


1-6 are all L/R room mic's.  I powered off the recorder between sets and set 2 is also all room mic's.

Sound Devices combines their files into Polywave files. All he files are combined and have to be separated which they have a tool for or many programs will do. Have you done this? This is different than most recorders. If you just play the recorded file it'll play and seem like a regular file but it is all the files combined.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lovebuzz on June 05, 2019, 01:16:21 AM


I'll send a message to SD customer service.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on June 05, 2019, 07:29:28 AM


I'll send a message to SD customer service.

Did you split the polywave?

If not, the problem here is user error.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on June 09, 2019, 03:19:44 AM
i have a few noob questions, FW 2.21. ive read a bunch but jsut need to conform some things to make sure im not missing anything:

1. i just want to record the iso channels, no interest in eating up sdcard space with the mixdown tracks. i want to use the knobs as input gain not output bus faders. is this method posted earlier in the threads still the preferred way:

" in Custom mode, if you set "Gain" to "Basic" but leave "Channel" on "Advanced" (and Record on Advanced like Paul said) then that approaches what we want to do. Namely in this mode it seems like the channel faders do act like gain pots (albeit with the modified -14-96db range), but since the channel is in advanced mode you still have access to all of the other channel settings like full pan, low cut settings, and linking."'


also are we 100% sure this actually controls input gain?

2. is there anyway to bypass limiters in basic gain, seems like you could do it in "advanced gain" but then you lose the functionality described in #1 above.

3. is there a way to playback iso files through the headphone out (if you didnt record the L+R output bus), i cant figure this out

thanks!




Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on June 13, 2019, 07:18:37 PM
i have a few noob questions, FW 2.21. ive read a bunch but jsut need to conform some things to make sure im not missing anything:

1. i just want to record the iso channels, no interest in eating up sdcard space with the mixdown tracks. i want to use the knobs as input gain not output bus faders. is this method posted earlier in the threads still the preferred way:

" in Custom mode, if you set "Gain" to "Basic" but leave "Channel" on "Advanced" (and Record on Advanced like Paul said) then that approaches what we want to do. Namely in this mode it seems like the channel faders do act like gain pots (albeit with the modified -14-96db range), but since the channel is in advanced mode you still have access to all of the other channel settings like full pan, low cut settings, and linking."'


also are we 100% sure this actually controls input gain?

2. is there anyway to bypass limiters in basic gain, seems like you could do it in "advanced gain" but then you lose the functionality described in #1 above.

3. is there a way to playback iso files through the headphone out (if you didnt record the L+R output bus), i cant figure this out

thanks!

Maybe you've already figured this out, but if you're in advanced mode, and don't want to record the mixdown tracks, go to the Main Menu Screen, toggle to Screen #2, select Sub-menu "Record", then select Sub-sub-menu "Rec L,R" and toggle to its screen #2 and press "Off".

They don't make it easy.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on June 13, 2019, 07:38:40 PM

also are we 100% sure this actually controls input gain?


I've been saying for awhile that I don't think there is ANY control of analog input gain. It's always wide open.


3. is there a way to playback iso files through the headphone out (if you didnt record the L+R output bus), i cant figure this out

thanks!

You have to set up a headphone preset. Go to the Main Menu display. In the upper left hand corner is a headphone icon. Select that and you will be in the "HP Preset" section. Toggle to Screen #3 and press "Edit HP Preset". A window labelled "Edit HP' will then open up showing the four configurable presets available. Select any one of them and another screen will open where you can choose which tracks you want on the L or R channel of your headphones.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on June 14, 2019, 12:52:39 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on June 14, 2019, 07:44:25 AM
1. i just want to record the iso channels, no interest in eating up sdcard space with the mixdown tracks. i want to use the knobs as input gain not output bus faders. is this method posted earlier in the threads still the preferred way:

" in Custom mode, if you set "Gain" to "Basic" but leave "Channel" on "Advanced" (and Record on Advanced like Paul said) then that approaches what we want to do. Namely in this mode it seems like the channel faders do act like gain pots (albeit with the modified -14-96db range), but since the channel is in advanced mode you still have access to all of the other channel settings like full pan, low cut settings, and linking."'


also are we 100% sure this actually controls input gain?

No, when you are in custom mode with the gain set to basic, the front panel knobs control a combination of analog and digital gain (per correspondence with Sound Devices).  To control only the input gain, you have to use advanced mode and access the gain through the screen for each channel (or set of ganged channels).

Basically, in custom mode with gain to basic, you are doing the same thing as in basic mode, except that, instead of routing everything to the L/R mix, it also creates ISOs (due to the channel being set to advanced).
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on June 14, 2019, 12:25:08 PM
...[W]hen you are in custom mode with the gain set to basic, the front panel knobs control a combination of analog and digital gain (per correspondence with Sound Devices).

This is how I've been running my mixpre6, and the above worries me a little. Has anyone tried to compare "advanced gain" with "basic gain" to test if the difference between all analog gain vs. analog/digital gain is audible?

I'd be happy to set up a comp with anyone else running schoeps (mk22, mk4v, mk41v, or mk3)> KCY> PFA> mixpre6
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on June 19, 2019, 07:58:59 AM
^ SD said, "you will not hear any difference in sound quality setting the gain to basic or advanced modes." I would guess any difference is minute.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on June 19, 2019, 01:13:16 PM
Is there anyway to disable the limiters when gain is set to basic mode?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: mjwin on June 19, 2019, 02:12:24 PM
Is there anyway to disable the limiters when gain is set to basic mode?
Go to the "system" menu page 2, where there's a "limiters on/off" option.

I've found the mixpre limiters pretty transparent in normal use since they don't start to kick in until the signal reaches about -3dB. Nor do they increase the noise floor or mess with the system gain structure like the digital limiters on some gear.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 08, 2019, 05:29:46 PM
first outing this weekend with mixpre-6

i should have a good comp of Greensky with 4011/4022 going into mixpre6 vs V3 vs V3>AD2K

i tried to run the MMA6000 microdot preamp into the 1/8" semi-successfully - i ran the MMA6000 at zero gain and used 30dB of gain in the mixpre and it worked.... but when i ran 30dB of gain on the mma6000 and 0dB on the mixpre and it brickwalled hard. i guess i forgot to set the input from mic in (max -10dBu) to line in (max input +10 dBu)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 12, 2019, 03:40:13 PM
Hi all,

Coming from a USBPre2, I want to purchase a SoundDevices MixPre-3. However, as I'm visually impaired and have no useful sight, I'm wondering if the MixPre-3 is usable or functional without relying on its touch screen. I mean how important is the touch screen for day-to-day use once one sets up mics? And may I know if the accompanying iOS app can compensate for most of the functionality of the touch screen? iPhones have built-in screen readers for the visually impaired, but it's not logical to ask the likes of SoundDevices to follow in Apple's footsteps to make their touch screens usable. In short, I'm worried about purchasing a device which can't be used because of its relatively heavy dependence on a touch screen.

Your help would be much appreciated.

Best,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 12, 2019, 05:33:25 PM
Hi Amir

The Mixpre-series support two different ways of external physical control.
Either by an external USB keyboard and can be managed through the keyboard with F-keys, arrows, numbers, space, esc, etc
You can pretty much control the whole Mixpre from the external keyboard.
Ctrl + R for Record
Ctrl + S for Stop
Spacebar to Play

Or by an external USB Midi control surfaces with will give you tactile buttons, rotary nobs and slider controls for most functions.

The four supported controls are:
Korg NanoKontrol Studio
Korg NanoKontrol 2
Novation LaunchControl XL
Akai MidiMix

No need to use the touchscreen for ordinary use.

A reseller should be able to set it up you on a testdrive in store.



Hi all,

Coming from a USBPre2, I want to purchase a SoundDevices MixPre-3. However, as I'm visually impaired and have no useful sight, I'm wondering if the MixPre-3 is usable or functional without relying on its touch screen. I mean how important is the touch screen for day-to-day use once one sets up mics? And may I know if the accompanying iOS app can compensate for most of the functionality of the touch screen? iPhones have built-in screen readers for the visually impaired, but it's not logical to ask the likes of SoundDevices to follow in Apple's footsteps to make their touch screens usable. In short, I'm worried about purchasing a device which can't be used because of its relatively heavy dependence on a touch screen.

Your help would be much appreciated.

Best,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 12, 2019, 07:58:19 PM
does it have an audible beep or anything to positively indicate recording?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 12, 2019, 10:39:07 PM
Yes it do have optional record bells in headphones to indicate start and stop of a recording.


does it have an audible beep or anything to positively indicate recording?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 12, 2019, 10:48:17 PM
Thanks, justme, for the invaluable info you provided.
I've got a couple more questions:
1. Does turning it off require confirmation on the touch screen? I've read somewhere that it does, but information regarding that is scarce.
2. Does turning on/off phantom power per channel require the use of the touch screen? If so, can it also be achieved via the USB keyboard?
3. As my USBPre 2 is a two-channel device, I can't use it to speak into a mic and simultaneously mix what my laptop is playing into a project or as an online stream. Given the way the MixPre-3 is designed, is this task doable one way or another?

Best,
Amir

Hi Amir

The Mixpre-series support two different ways of external physical control.
Either by an external USB keyboard and can be managed through the keyboard with F-keys, arrows, numbers, space, esc, etc
You can pretty much control the whole Mixpre from the external keyboard.
Ctrl + R for Record
Ctrl + S for Stop
Spacebar to Play

Or by an external USB Midi control surfaces with will give you tactile buttons, rotary nobs and slider controls for most functions.

The four supported controls are:
Korg NanoKontrol Studio
Korg NanoKontrol 2
Novation LaunchControl XL
Akai MidiMix

No need to use the touchscreen for ordinary use.

A reseller should be able to set it up you on a testdrive in store.



Hi all,

Coming from a USBPre2, I want to purchase a SoundDevices MixPre-3. However, as I'm visually impaired and have no useful sight, I'm wondering if the MixPre-3 is usable or functional without relying on its touch screen. I mean how important is the touch screen for day-to-day use once one sets up mics? And may I know if the accompanying iOS app can compensate for most of the functionality of the touch screen? iPhones have built-in screen readers for the visually impaired, but it's not logical to ask the likes of SoundDevices to follow in Apple's footsteps to make their touch screens usable. In short, I'm worried about purchasing a device which can't be used because of its relatively heavy dependence on a touch screen.

Your help would be much appreciated.

Best,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on July 12, 2019, 11:36:49 PM
Hi Amir, I hope I can help answer some of what you are wondering. I have the MixPre6 so my experience is with that unit, not the 3.
1- Powering off the MixPre is accomplished with a hardware switch on the side. No confirmation is asked or given.
2- The only thing the USB keyboard is good for is naming tracks, projects, and settings files. If you're using the machine in low power mode then the USB keyboard functionality will not be available.
3- Not sure about that, but I think it might be a yes.
Best of luck, I hope this helps a little!
PS I can't think that the app would be very usable in screen reader mode. Its main function is to show live meter levels and it doesn't have much control, like peak hold time or anything.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 13, 2019, 12:37:24 AM
Thanks bunches, morst, for the useful info you provided -- especially regarding turning off the device.
My issue is that I can't test-drive the MixPre-3 as it's not available here. So I need to order it and it will be delivered to me in a week or so. So I know this is not a logical way of purchasing gear, but I should make sure the touch screen isn't a barrier. I have similar issues with Rode's newly released Rodecaster Pro as it also offers a touch screen without audio feedback.
Back to your points, so it seems that the iOS app doesn't help with modification of the settings much. As for the features of the USB keyboard, guess I should also consult the manual. SoundDevices manuals are not quite detailed -- at least that has been the case with my USBPre2, so I should see if the same holds here.

Best,
Amir

Hi Amir, I hope I can help answer some of what you are wondering. I have the MixPre6 so my experience is with that unit, not the 3.
1- Powering off the MixPre is accomplished with a hardware switch on the side. No confirmation is asked or given.
2- The only thing the USB keyboard is good for is naming tracks, projects, and settings files. If you're using the machine in low power mode then the USB keyboard functionality will not be available.
3- Not sure about that, but I think it might be a yes.
Best of luck, I hope this helps a little!
PS I can't think that the app would be very usable in screen reader mode. Its main function is to show live meter levels and it doesn't have much control, like peak hold time or anything.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 13, 2019, 01:36:18 AM
Well, having read the following review of the Mixpre-3/6 devices -- https://transom.org/2017/sound-devices-mixpre-3-mixpre-6 I have a few more questions -- mostly regarding the touch screen and operation as a blind user:
1. The review says:
"You can also use the USB connection for moving audio files from the SD card to your computer’s hard drive. Go to the System screen on the MixPre and tap File Transfer. This will disable USB audio while in this mode."
So do I need to achieve this, via the touch screen, each time I want to transfer files from the device to the computer? And is it somehow doable via a USB keyboard?
2. Somewhere it says:
"The recorders’ internal software provides the ability to store presets of favorite configurations; three presets can be stored in the machine’s internal memory. Or you can store as many as you like on the SD card — just remember that those presets will be lost if you reformat the SD card, which you should do with some regularity. Using these presets allows for quick changes between recording configurations, without your having to dig through menu pages to make sure all settings are as they should be."
Can I switch among these presets via hardware buttons, or is it doable only via the touch screen? How about the USB keyboard?
3. It says:
"To adjust the settings for each input channel, you simply press in on the knob for that channel. That will switch the display to show everything you can adjust for that channel, such as:
–which physical input is assigned to that channel
–panning the input to the Left, Right or Center of the main Left-Right mix
–setting the input gain to mic or line
–turning phantom power on or off
–turning a low-cut filter on or off".
Sorry guys, but at the risk of repeating my previous question(s), do I need the touch screen for all of that, or does the USB keyboard help?
4. Now to pose a basic but different question, can recording be started, paused/resumed and stopped by pressing physical buttons on the device? I hope the answer to this one is a resounding "yes"! <smile>
5. Finally, is it possible to monitor the audio and the way our mics/the device have been set up through headphones before starting a recording? This is possible with the likes of the Sony PCM-D100 and the Zoom H6, so I can listen to how my mics sound via headphones before starting to record. I'm not sure if the Mixpre-3 allows this, but hope it does.

Again sorry for posing so many questions.

Best,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on July 13, 2019, 03:30:47 AM
OK. Bad news and good news. If you can get assistance from a sighted person setting this up, it might work for you in the field. That was the good news. Bad news is that most of the things you ask are touch screen only, but let me go over the details because you might be able to work with this.
1- if you can do file transfers from your computer, you can remove the SD card and just use a card reader. Putting the MixPre into USB transfer mode requires the touch screen, but loading the SD card into a typical SDXC card reader should work fine for you. (My MacBookPro has a card reader built-in.)
2 - Switching presets is touch screen only, with no user feedback except visual.
3 - USB keyboard is really just for naming things. Not much else that I have noticed, though I guess I have not pushed it. Perhaps the arrow keys are more functional? All those things you mention on the touch screen, don't seem to be accessible anywhere else. And the way the touch screen uses "pages", without some sort of audible or haptic feedback, it's gonna be REALLY hard to verify that you are on the right page to adjust your desired setting.
 :(
4 - OH yeah, the good news. There are physical buttons which start and stop recording, and playback. I think that if you have this set up in collaboration with a sighted assistant, you will be able to adjust channel levels yourself, and get good results by carefully monitoring using headphones.
5- Another good answer for you - this machine (Again, I use the mixpre6 version) functions like an audio mixer. When it's not recording,it's passing signal just like when it is armed and rolling. The bad news might be that it's hard to tell when you're actually recording, but if there's an audible beep tone, I've certainly switched it off, so I'm a bad one to ask that particular query.


Glad to help!

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 13, 2019, 04:13:25 AM
That's really informative and well thought-out!
Having read your message carefully, what concerns me the most now would be my inability to switch among presets, and my inability to make proper adjustments when more than one mic is connected -- I mean number 3 which involves, among other things, panning the input to the Left, Right or Center of the main Left-Right mix. Courtesy of your observations and insights now I know a lot about what I should expect if I purchase it, but given the issues I mentioned, I'm in two minds about pulling the trigger. Again wish SoundDevices had come up with a way to make the MixPre devices accessible.

Best,
Amir

OK. Bad news and good news. If you can get assistance from a sighted person setting this up, it might work for you in the field. That was the good news. Bad news is that most of the things you ask are touch screen only, but let me go over the details because you might be able to work with this.
1- if you can do file transfers from your computer, you can remove the SD card and just use a card reader. Putting the MixPre into USB transfer mode requires the touch screen, but loading the SD card into a typical SDXC card reader should work fine for you. (My MacBookPro has a card reader built-in.)
2 - Switching presets is touch screen only, with no user feedback except visual.
3 - USB keyboard is really just for naming things. Not much else that I have noticed, though I guess I have not pushed it. Perhaps the arrow keys are more functional? All those things you mention on the touch screen, don't seem to be accessible anywhere else. And the way the touch screen uses "pages", without some sort of audible or haptic feedback, it's gonna be REALLY hard to verify that you are on the right page to adjust your desired setting.
 :(
4 - OH yeah, the good news. There are physical buttons which start and stop recording, and playback. I think that if you have this set up in collaboration with a sighted assistant, you will be able to adjust channel levels yourself, and get good results by carefully monitoring using headphones.
5- Another good answer for you - this machine (Again, I use the mixpre6 version) functions like an audio mixer. When it's not recording,it's passing signal just like when it is armed and rolling. The bad news might be that it's hard to tell when you're actually recording, but if there's an audible beep tone, I've certainly switched it off, so I'm a bad one to ask that particular query.


Glad to help!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 13, 2019, 05:40:26 AM
This is what I just did on my Mixpre-6

Connected my ultra slim wireless keyboard with a USB angle for 2.4 GHz connection.
Then I can control everything in the Mixpre.
I can navigate, control and change everything I can over the touch interface.
I can record, stop and playback files.
I can arm and disable, fade, control gain, Low cut filters etc.
I can load presets and save presets.
I can connect the Mixpre via USB-C-to-USB-a cable to my 2015 MacBook Pro which do not have USB-C and - this is the only time I need to touch the touchscreen to acknowledge to run the Mixpre on battery power. With a computer with USB-C and PD, like the MBP from 2016 and newer this is not a problem.

I then tap:
F1, Right Arrow twice, Q, Right Arrow and Q. This do put my Mixpre into USB-C File Transfer Mode and the SD-card in mounted on the MacBook Pro.
By pressing Enter on the keyboard I exit the USB file transfer mode and is back to the ordinary again.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 13, 2019, 05:51:50 AM
Wow, that's just fantastic! Sound Devices deserves a lot of credit for that.
Being able to control everything via a USB keyboard sounds promising. Of course, I have to learn and memorize at least important menu items and the way I can reach them, but since I've been doing that for my recorders over the last decade or so, that shouldn't be a showstopper. However, I just have two more questions:
1. If a USB keyboard is connected to the MixPre-3, can I still connect the MixPre-3 to my laptop via USB? If so, does the latter require a USB C cable?
2. Since I switched to a wireless keyboard for my laptop a long while ago, I should purchase a USB keyboard -- hopefully a small one -- for use with the MixPre-3 as a full-sized one might be difficult to move around. Does every USB 2.0 keyboard work, or does it require some technical considerations?

Best,
Amir

This is what I just did on my Mixpre-6

Connected my ultra slim wireless keyboard with a USB angle for 2.4 GHz connection.
Then I can control everything in the Mixpre.
I can navigate, control and change everything I can over the touch interface.
I can record, stop and playback files.
I can arm and disable, fade, control gain, Low cut filters etc.
I can load presets and save presets.
I can connect the Mixpre via USB-C-to-USB-a cable to my 2015 MacBook Pro which do not have USB-C and - this is the only time I need to touch the touchscreen to acknowledge to run the Mixpre on battery power. With a computer with USB-C and PD, like the MBP from 2016 and newer this is not a problem.

I then tap:
F1, Right Arrow twice, Q, Right Arrow and Q. This do put my Mixpre into USB-C File Transfer Mode and the SD-card in mounted on the MacBook Pro.
By pressing Enter on the keyboard I exit the USB file transfer mode and is back to the ordinary again.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 13, 2019, 06:26:13 AM
You have two USB interfaces on the Mixpre.
USB-A and USB-C.

I have the wireless dongle in the USB-A connector.
I then connect the USB-C to my MBP 2015, acknowledge to run on battery, and then I can navigate with:
F1, Right Arrow, Right Arrow, Q, A

That will put the USB-C into Audio interface mode and I can then use it as a microphone preamp, AD/DA device or a recorder.

The wireless keyboard I have is only 205mm by 80mm.


I've filed a feature request/bug report with SoundDevices regarding the need to touch the screen to confirm the battery power question.
Home that can enable a keyboard to control that as well.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 13, 2019, 06:38:59 AM
I'm impressed! Kudos to SoundDevices for not letting go of alternative methods of operating the MixPre devices with the inclusion of the touch screen.
Justme, at first I thought it's not possible to control the MixPre-3 using wireless keyboards which have a USB dongle. They add an extra layor of comfort and portability to an already powerful device. I just downloaded the MixPre-3's manual and will take a closer look.

And special thanks are in order to all awesome TapersSection members. Over the past 4 years I've never been disappointed with the prompt responses I've received from professional members of this great website.

Cheers,
Amir

You have two USB interfaces on the Mixpre.
USB-A and USB-C.

I have the wireless dongle in the USB-A connector.
I then connect the USB-C to my MBP 2015, acknowledge to run on battery, and then I can navigate with:
F1, Right Arrow, Right Arrow, Q, A

That will put the USB-C into Audio interface mode and I can then use it as a microphone preamp, AD/DA device or a recorder.

The wireless keyboard I have is only 205mm by 80mm.


I've filed a feature request/bug report with SoundDevices regarding the need to touch the screen to confirm the battery power question.
Home that can enable a keyboard to control that as well.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 13, 2019, 07:01:03 AM
You are welcome!

The reason these USB dongles works is that it emulates a physical device compliant keyboard so it need no drivers and the Mixpre or any other device that can utilise an USB wired keyboard. Then it does the wireless communication to the keyboard on its own.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 15, 2019, 02:50:34 PM
I got a reply from Sound Devices and they are able to replicate not being able to respond to an on-screen prompt from an external USB keyboard.

They said they will add it to the feature request list.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on July 15, 2019, 03:24:32 PM
I am so glad to hear that I vastly underestimated the functionality of the USB keyboard interface!!!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rigpimp on July 19, 2019, 11:19:53 PM
You have two USB interfaces on the Mixpre.
USB-A and USB-C.

I have the wireless dongle in the USB-A connector.
I then connect the USB-C to my MBP 2015, acknowledge to run on battery, and then I can navigate with:
F1, Right Arrow, Right Arrow, Q, A

That will put the USB-C into Audio interface mode and I can then use it as a microphone preamp, AD/DA device or a recorder.

The wireless keyboard I have is only 205mm by 80mm.


I've filed a feature request/bug report with SoundDevices regarding the need to touch the screen to confirm the battery power question.
Home that can enable a keyboard to control that as well.

+T!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 21, 2019, 05:35:22 PM
im getting 'media slow' errors with my mixpre6 on cards that should be plenty fast enough

my firmware version is the ancient 1.11

i see that media performance has been improved several times , up until the last version where preroll is an issue

is there a consensus on most reliable firmware? i just bumped to 3.03 since from reading here it looks like i can roll back if needed, testing now
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on July 21, 2019, 06:45:16 PM
I'm running 3.02 with no issues after disabling pre-roll.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 21, 2019, 06:54:50 PM
im an hour in at 192 x 8 ch on 3.03 with no errors so far. this 128GB card will fill up in 7.5 hours and then ill do it again. ive got a stack of old class 4 and class 6 cards i can torture test the machine with as well
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on July 21, 2019, 07:57:22 PM
I've been using 3.03 since it came out without any problems. About 40 hours of recording time. I use pre-roll too.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 21, 2019, 09:13:33 PM
problem solved! I dont get "SD media too slow" errors anymore

now theyre called "record buffer errors"
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on July 21, 2019, 09:15:26 PM
problem solved! I dont get "SD media too slow" errors anymore

now theyre called "record buffer errors"
Oh, that's much more specific. Phew!
 :-[ :-[ :-[
 :shrug:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 21, 2019, 09:23:24 PM
it actually might be more descriptive!

"SD media too slow" = "sorry, your shit sucks"
"Record buffer error" = "sorry, our shit sucks"

i kid... this is frustrating though. 4.5 MB/sec should be easy peasy with a reasonable buffer and *any* card performing at class 10. Shit, class 6 for that matter... youd think that 10X more writespeed than needed would be adequate.

I've given up on testing for now and reached out to the SD rep on here for guidance on good SD cards
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: voltronic on July 22, 2019, 11:23:23 AM
it actually might be more descriptive!

"SD media too slow" = "sorry, your shit sucks"
"Record buffer error" = "sorry, our shit sucks"

i kid... this is frustrating though. 4.5 MB/sec should be easy peasy with a reasonable buffer and *any* card performing at class 10. Shit, class 6 for that matter... youd think that 10X more writespeed than needed would be adequate.

I've given up on testing for now and reached out to the SD rep on here for guidance on good SD cards

Some people here used to eviscerate Tascam for not testing more cards, but IMO, Sound Devices has done far worse by their customers in this area regarding these recorders.  They have ONE item on their Approved Media for the MixPre series.
https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/ (https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on July 22, 2019, 11:37:27 AM
Time to start a new thread?
Mix-Pre 3/6 SD memory cards  (what works and what doesn't)

List cards that handle 3+2 and 6+2 at highest resolution/sampling/bitrate respectively.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on July 22, 2019, 11:40:47 AM
im getting 'media slow' errors with my mixpre6 on cards that should be plenty fast enough

my firmware version is the ancient 1.11

i see that media performance has been improved several times , up until the last version where preroll is an issue

is there a consensus on most reliable firmware? i just bumped to 3.03 since from reading here it looks like i can roll back if needed, testing now

what kind of card?  I have a sandisk and the SD one and no issues with either.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on July 22, 2019, 12:46:46 PM
Are you testing the whole card at max bitrate?

I’ll start a new thread in the recording media subforum
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rigpimp on July 22, 2019, 12:52:24 PM
Are you testing the whole card at max bitrate?

I’ll start a new thread in the recording media subforum

Already did.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on July 22, 2019, 01:24:41 PM
Some people here used to eviscerate Tascam for not testing more cards, but IMO, Sound Devices has done far worse by their customers in this area regarding these recorders.  They have ONE item on their Approved Media for the MixPre series.
https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/ (https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/)
I had one of those SD branded cards fail in my MixPre6 last year. Luckily it was during a sound check and I had a different card with me.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on July 23, 2019, 11:13:43 PM
I got a reply from Sound Devices and they are able to replicate not being able to respond to an on-screen prompt from an external USB keyboard.

They said they will add it to the feature request list.
Oh! What a bummer! I'm a bit screwed 😊 Guess I should wait for this to be implemented before making the purchase. I was even thinking about getting a Mixpre-6.
Thanks for investigating that on my behalf.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 21, 2019, 03:54:51 AM
Hi all,

After gathering enough information about the accessability and usability of the Mixpre-3 for the visually impaired, I finally came to the conclusion to purchase the Mixpre-6 given its extra channels. However, I'd like to use your help to determine if the Mixpre-6 can do what I want.
1. The Mixpre-6 is primarily advertised as a field recorder and I have no issues with that. But I want something which can do some sort of sound-mixing. I don't want to apply effects or use equalizers, but I want to be able to connect two or three XLR mics to the Mixpre-6, move all of them to the center of the so-called audio or stereo stage, and connect the Mixpre-6 to my laptop in order to live-mix the output of the microphones with the music which resides on my laptop. I also want to be able to mute all mics at once. Perhaps more important than that, I want to move the music sound gradually above or below the voice of all three XLR mics. Do you think the Mixpre-6 can do all of that? And can I increase-decrease the volume of the XLR mics at once to have the music fade in or fade out? For instance, I want for the music to fade gradually in order for a host or guest to start speaking with the music in the background.
2. I have seen some professional sound engineers do something strange, or strange in my view, even when they have USB mixers at hand. To bring in music from a laptop, they connect mixers to the headphone output of laptops instead of relying on a USB connection to achieve that. They say that such a connection is more stable than using USB to send audio from the laptop to the mixer. What do you think? Does what they say hold some truth? And is the Mixpre-6 capable of doing both?
3. With the Mixpre-6 I can use its built-in audio recorder, and that's really a boon. But is the built-in recorder capable of generating a single stereo mix of all channels, or does it provide me with separate tracks for each channel? Or maybe both? And are all volume changes I make to the music/XLR mic outputs captured by the recorder similar to what dedicated mixers do?
4. Finally, may I know how many aux sends the Mixpre-6 has? And do they have, or maybe does it have, its own volume control?

Thanks for your invaluable opinions and answers.

Best,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on August 21, 2019, 09:55:19 AM
Hi all,

After gathering enough information about the accessability and usability of the Mixpre-3 for the visually impaired, I finally came to the conclusion to purchase the Mixpre-6 given its extra channels. However, I'd like to use your help to determine if the Mixpre-6 can do what I want.
1. The Mixpre-6 is primarily advertised as a field recorder and I have no issues with that. But I want something which can do some sort of sound-mixing. I don't want to apply effects or use equalizers, but I want to be able to connect two or three XLR mics to the Mixpre-6, move all of them to the center of the so-called audio or stereo stage, and connect the Mixpre-6 to my laptop in order to live-mix the output of the microphones with the music which resides on my laptop. I also want to be able to mute all mics at once. Perhaps more important than that, I want to move the music sound gradually above or below the voice of all three XLR mics. Do you think the Mixpre-6 can do all of that? And can I increase-decrease the volume of the XLR mics at once to have the music fade in or fade out? For instance, I want for the music to fade gradually in order for a host or guest to start speaking with the music in the background.
2. I have seen some professional sound engineers do something strange, or strange in my view, even when they have USB mixers at hand. To bring in music from a laptop, they connect mixers to the headphone output of laptops instead of relying on a USB connection to achieve that. They say that such a connection is more stable than using USB to send audio from the laptop to the mixer. What do you think? Does what they say hold some truth? And is the Mixpre-6 capable of doing both?
3. With the Mixpre-6 I can use its built-in audio recorder, and that's really a boon. But is the built-in recorder capable of generating a single stereo mix of all channels, or does it provide me with separate tracks for each channel? Or maybe both? And are all volume changes I make to the music/XLR mic outputs captured by the recorder similar to what dedicated mixers do?
4. Finally, may I know how many aux sends the Mixpre-6 has? And do they have, or maybe does it have, its own volume control?

Thanks for your invaluable opinions and answers.

Best,
Amir

Hi Amir, I will answer your questions as best I can. I'm sure others will chime in as well.

1. The default pan of each channel is center. I'm not aware of any method that mutes all of the mics at once - normally this is accomplished for each channel by pressing the channel fader and pressing mute on the touchscreen. The music issue seems like a post-production concern to me. Will you be using this for live broadcasting?
2. I would use the USB-C input for audio from a computer, otherwise you are running two DACs. However, you can run from a laptop headphone out into the 1/8" stereo in on the Mixpre 6 if you want to.
3. The Mixpre 6 is capable of creating a stereo "live mix" of all channels (which is something that we don't normally use in our application). Any volume changes that you make will be captured by the recorder while in record mode. I think the unit is very nice used as an interface with your computer, where you can record each track separately in your DAW. I've had no trouble when using the USB-C connection.
4. The unit has a stereo line out and a headphone out, both 1/8". The headphone out has an external volume control. but the stereo line out is controlled via the touchscreen.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 21, 2019, 10:09:43 AM
Hi David,

Thanks for taking the time to address my questions and concerns.
1. You are right. I want to use the MixPre-6 as a mixer for live broadcasts. As such, I want to use it to live-mix the output of two or three mics, all as a single mid-stage channel, with the music on my laptop. And that's why I need the fade-in and fade-out features if provided by the MixPre-6. So do you mean muting or unmuting each channel can't be accomplished by key presses, or a separate connected keyboard, instead of the touch screen? And am I correct in assuming that we can't combine two or three connected mics into a single channel and mute/unmute/fade them simultaneously?
2 and 3. Thanks for clarifying those important points re USB type C and the way volume changes are captured by the internal recorder.
4. Again, is there a way to control the stereo line out by a key press or via a separate USB keyboard?

Cheers,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on August 21, 2019, 10:51:14 AM
1. You can only link channels 1-2 and 3-4 etc. You can not link 1-3 and control all 3 with one fader.
But you can connect a midi controller surface with buttons, knobs and faders and that way create a mixer control for live mixing.
Then you can control, play, stop  trim, pan, fade, mute, solo, master fade etc.

Unless you really need time code input/trigger, the MixPre-6M för music might be a slightly cheaper option.

The MixPre's support following controller interfaces

Akai MidiMix Interface
Korg NanoKontrol 2 Interface
Korg NanoKontrol Studio Interface
Novation LaunchControl XL Interface
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 21, 2019, 02:35:55 PM
1. You can only link channels 1-2 and 3-4 etc. You can not link 1-3 and control all 3 with one fader.
But you can connect a midi controller surface with buttons, knobs and faders and that way create a mixer control for live mixing.
Then you can control, play, stop  trim, pan, fade, mute, solo, master fade etc.

Unless you really need time code input/trigger, the MixPre-6M för music might be a slightly cheaper option.

The MixPre's support following controller interfaces

Akai MidiMix Interface
Korg NanoKontrol 2 Interface
Korg NanoKontrol Studio Interface
Novation LaunchControl XL Interface
Thanks! So if I purchase one of the controllers you mentioned, will I be able to control most or all of the touch screen-oriented aspects of the MixPre-6 like pressing mute on the touch screen after having pressed the channel fader? I mean does it replace the USB keyboard option and provide more functionality? You also mentioned that I can't combine channels 1-2-3. But can I combine channels 1-2 and then mix them with the music coming from my laptop via these controllers? It seems to me that I should limit myself to two XLR keyboards if I'm supposed to combine and control them as one separate output. Is this true?

Cheers,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on August 21, 2019, 03:23:57 PM
Hi all,

After gathering enough information about the accessability and usability of the Mixpre-3 for the visually impaired, I finally came to the conclusion to purchase the Mixpre-6 given its extra channels. However, I'd like to use your help to determine if the Mixpre-6 can do what I want.
1. The Mixpre-6 is primarily advertised as a field recorder and I have no issues with that. But I want something which can do some sort of sound-mixing. I don't want to apply effects or use equalizers, but I want to be able to connect two or three XLR mics to the Mixpre-6, move all of them to the center of the so-called audio or stereo stage, and connect the Mixpre-6 to my laptop in order to live-mix the output of the microphones with the music which resides on my laptop. I also want to be able to mute all mics at once. Perhaps more important than that, I want to move the music sound gradually above or below the voice of all three XLR mics. Do you think the Mixpre-6 can do all of that? And can I increase-decrease the volume of the XLR mics at once to have the music fade in or fade out? For instance, I want for the music to fade gradually in order for a host or guest to start speaking with the music in the background.
2. I have seen some professional sound engineers do something strange, or strange in my view, even when they have USB mixers at hand. To bring in music from a laptop, they connect mixers to the headphone output of laptops instead of relying on a USB connection to achieve that. They say that such a connection is more stable than using USB to send audio from the laptop to the mixer. What do you think? Does what they say hold some truth? And is the Mixpre-6 capable of doing both?
3. With the Mixpre-6 I can use its built-in audio recorder, and that's really a boon. But is the built-in recorder capable of generating a single stereo mix of all channels, or does it provide me with separate tracks for each channel? Or maybe both? And are all volume changes I make to the music/XLR mic outputs captured by the recorder similar to what dedicated mixers do?
4. Finally, may I know how many aux sends the Mixpre-6 has? And do they have, or maybe does it have, its own volume control?

Thanks for your invaluable opinions and answers.

Best,
Amir

Since you are live-mixing the output of the three mics, why go through the MP6 at all? Perhaps a USB mixer with 3 xlr mic inputs would be more useful to connect with your laptop. No need to deal with a touchscreen.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on August 21, 2019, 03:34:37 PM
Yes with one of those controllers you could be able to do most of the playing, recording and mixing.
With linking, I meant that you can link channel 1 and 2 to be controlled together to have the recording level controlled with the knob of channel 1 and the panning between channels with knob for channel 2.
All channels can be recorded as isolated tracks on their own. And all channels can be mixed into a final stereo recording in the same time as well as output on line out.

But as dogmusic said.
If you only are looking for a solution to do live mixing and recording on a computer, a far cheaper and simpler way would be a 3 or 4 channel USB mixer which more or less will give you the same features you will use on the MixPre-6. But for several hundred dollars less.




Thanks! So if I purchase one of the controllers you mentioned, will I be able to control most or all of the touch screen-oriented aspects of the MixPre-6 like pressing mute on the touch screen after having pressed the channel fader? I mean does it replace the USB keyboard option and provide more functionality? You also mentioned that I can't combine channels 1-2-3. But can I combine channels 1-2 and then mix them with the music coming from my laptop via these controllers? It seems to me that I should limit myself to two XLR keyboards if I'm supposed to combine and control them as one separate output. Is this true?

Cheers,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 21, 2019, 03:51:01 PM
Since you are live-mixing the output of the three mics, why go through the MP6 at all? Perhaps a USB mixer with 3 xlr mic inputs would be more useful to connect with your laptop. No need to deal with a touchscreen.
Well, because the MixPre-6 can also act as an excellent stand-alone recorder -- something I also need. I currently have a Sony PCM-D100 and really like it, but also need something which can accept two or three XLR mics -- something the D100 can't do. Moreover, most cheap USB mixers have mid to low-quality preamps for my dynamic mics -- something the MixPre line can easily handle. I also have a USBPre-2 and have come to believe that SoundDevices means quality.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 21, 2019, 03:56:00 PM
Yes with one of those controllers you could be able to do most of the playing, recording and mixing.
With linking, I meant that you can link channel 1 and 2 to be controlled together to have the recording level controlled with the knob of channel 1 and the panning between channels with knob for channel 2.
All channels can be recorded as isolated tracks on their own. And all channels can be mixed into a final stereo recording in the same time as well as output on line out.

But as dogmusic said.
If you only are looking for a solution to do live mixing and recording on a computer, a far cheaper and simpler way would be a 3 or 4 channel USB mixer which more or less will give you the same features you will use on the MixPre-6. But for several hundred dollars less.
Thanks again for your brilliant explanations.
As mentioned earlier, I also want a stand-alone recorder -- something the MixPre-6 handles really well. Also its built-in recorder appeals to me as I don't need to worry about launching a separate app on my laptop to record the stereo mix.
The use of a controller sounds like a great idea and apparently can take care of my concerns.

Cheers,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 21, 2019, 11:04:45 PM
pretty disconcerting that with latest firmware, the mixpre 6 fails with *almost every card tested* at 8 channels at 24/192

only 2 out of 9 cards managed to write a full card without crashing, despite having tested at 10X the sequential write speeds

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.0

at some point, we can only conclude the device itself is at fault, in the way it buffers. I understand that not all cards are created equal, but when your device rejects 80% of properly rated cards thats a problem (i also have other cards like multiple lexar 512GB microsdxc that arent in that list because i tested them with older firmware - not including those as that was 1.xx firmware)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 21, 2019, 11:06:58 PM

I've given up on testing for now and reached out to the SD rep on here for guidance on good SD cards

Some people here used to eviscerate Tascam for not testing more cards, but IMO, Sound Devices has done far worse by their customers in this area regarding these recorders.  They have ONE item on their Approved Media for the MixPre series.
https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/ (https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/)

FWIW the SD rep never got back to me, and their one recommended SD-branded card actually failed on morst as described above

Not sure if its notable but their only recommended card is a 32GB. the only one that worked for me was also a 32GB. (although justme had a 128GB one that worked (from UK not available in US as far as i know))

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on August 22, 2019, 12:42:59 AM
The storage media failures are indeed one of the weakest points in Sound Devices pitch of the MixPre's.
We should all one by one saturate their support inbox asking them why Zoom can make their F8 work with hundred cards from tens of manufacturers - when SD only manage to list ONE card which is their own.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 22, 2019, 01:12:56 AM
unfortunately i think a "fix" for them might be to change the way the machine behaves when write buffer goes empty... they might just let it drop samples and not report the fatal error

if youve ever tested a recording device for dropped samples its a much more involved process... one that almost nobody would do
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jcable77 on August 22, 2019, 03:51:47 AM
Sorry your having issues with that mp6 JF. Like the one Ive been using for the last year and a half, I basically just put a 64 gb card in it, set my presets, formatted the card and hit record. Never had any issues with that one or the one I use all the time.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 22, 2019, 04:11:35 AM
Sorry your having issues with that mp6 JF. Like the one Ive been using for the last year and a half, I basically just put a 64 gb card in it, set my presets, formatted the card and hit record. Never had any issues with that one or the one I use all the time.

yes but you probably werent running 192k x 8 channels. if you have some time, can you test some of the cards you have at that bitrate? a 64 gb will fill up in under 4 hrs

its a torture test, in the field i would really only run 6 channels at 48k or 96k with piece of mind....

still somewhat concerning that the unit cant do what they say it can (even if i dont want to use it a the rate) 


Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: voltronic on August 22, 2019, 06:53:27 AM
The storage media failures are indeed one of the weakest points in Sound Devices pitch of the MixPre's.
We should all one by one saturate their support inbox asking them why Zoom can make their F8 work with hundred cards from tens of manufacturers - when SD only manage to list ONE card which is their own.

As I said before, it's the Tascam DR-70D drama revisited, only this time it's from a manufacturer known for rock-solid reliability and doing exactly what they claim.

Anyone out there think these MixPres were a bit rushed out to market?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on August 22, 2019, 10:24:35 AM
I am curious if anyone has encountered the "record buffer error" with smaller sampling frequencies or fewer channels? All of the reports I have seen thus far have been based on 8 channels (6 ISOs and the L/R mix) at 192 kHz.

Not to let SD off the hook, as they are clearly advertising a recorder capable of supporting 8 channels and 192 kHz sampling rates, but, if the problem is restricted to 8*192, then it may not be an issue for most tapers. From posts here, I gather that (like myself) most are using 4 - 6 tracks at 48 or 96 kHz.

FWIW the SD rep never got back to me

This is really surprising to me. How did you contact them? I have gotten very quick responses via their support contact page on the website and also via e-mail.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on August 22, 2019, 11:43:19 AM
Perhaps we should try 2.21 with 8ch @192 and see if it added features that have caused the problems.
It might have been punished by add-ons. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 22, 2019, 01:40:07 PM
Guys, the MixPre-6M is $100 cheaper than the MixPre-6. But it's not a huge difference to ignore the 6 if the 6M lacks features which I might need in the future. Apart from Timecode which I have never used as someone who mostly deals with audio, does the MixPre-6 offer a more appealing package? It supports 192 kHz -- something which I haven't used either with my PCM-D100. Does the 6M offer fewer max channels -- something which might potentially hit me one day upon live-mixing in broadcast settings? And may I know if both 6 and 6M come with an AC adapter in the package?

Best,
Amir
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on August 22, 2019, 03:09:36 PM
Guys, the MixPre-6M is $100 cheaper than the MixPre-6. But it's not a huge difference to ignore the 6 if the 6M lacks features which I might need in the future. Apart from Timecode which I have never used as someone who mostly deals with audio, does the MixPre-6 offer a more appealing package? It supports 192 kHz -- something which I haven't used either with my PCM-D100. Does the 6M offer fewer max channels -- something which might potentially hit me one day upon live-mixing in broadcast settings? And may I know if both 6 and 6M come with an AC adapter in the package?

Best,
Amir

There’s no ac adapter with the MP6. Don’t know about the m. You can buy one from Trew.  I just use a USB-C wall charger and a c to c cable.

Personally, I would buy the regular MP6. You may get into sound design and want 192.

The M plug-in is offered for a reduced price sometimes by SD so you can get the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Amir on August 22, 2019, 04:06:14 PM
There’s no ac adapter with the MP6. Don’t know about the m. You can buy one from Trew.  I just use a USB-C wall charger and a c to c cable.

Personally, I would buy the regular MP6. You may get into sound design and want 192.

The M plug-in is offered for a reduced price sometimes by SD so you can get the best of both worlds.
That's interesting indeed. SoundDevices includes the MX-PSU (Wall Power Supply with USB-C) with the 6M on B&H, but the 6 doesn't have it there. I can't understand why the more expensive product shouldn't offer the adaptor whereas the cheaper one does. I do have a type-C wall charger but I'm paranoid about ruining the MixPre by noot using what SD recommends. It seems that with the 6 I should pay another $40 for the charger -- not so cool 😀
As for getting the 6 instead of the 6M, I'm intrigued by the 6's ambisonics support though I don't know how easy or feasible it is to set it up if the need arises.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 22, 2019, 05:32:09 PM
I am curious if anyone has encountered the "record buffer error" with smaller sampling frequencies or fewer channels? All of the reports I have seen thus far have been based on 8 channels (6 ISOs and the L/R mix) at 192 kHz.

Not to let SD off the hook, as they are clearly advertising a recorder capable of supporting 8 channels and 192 kHz sampling rates, but, if the problem is restricted to 8*192, then it may not be an issue for most tapers. From posts here, I gather that (like myself) most are using 4 - 6 tracks at 48 or 96 kHz.

FWIW the SD rep never got back to me

This is really surprising to me. How did you contact them? I have gotten very quick responses via their support contact page on the website and also via e-mail.
I retested the best of the three SanDisk cards I purchased recently, it failed at eight channels at 96k as well

at this point I got a find my good 32GB card for this weekend.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 24, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
never did find my good 32gb but the 128 sandisk extreme got me thru 6 channels of 24/48 no problem 3 nights in a row
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Brian G on August 29, 2019, 12:10:43 PM
It appears the 2nd generation of these have arrived.

https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre/?fbclid=IwAR1k53VVFGOE_Wb36FKYa0uspeNrcxE0dhKg5Tse5DJbsIYYzybh7rRYQTA
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Sebastian on August 29, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
Whoa! 32-bit float recording, TC generator, adjustable limiters and extended pre-roll actually make me consider upgrading.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on August 29, 2019, 12:29:02 PM
Cheaper too. $850 (vs. $900 for the original)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1503005-REG/sound_devices_mixpre_6_ii_6_channel.html
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on August 29, 2019, 12:35:31 PM
And they added a Lego rubber wheel to the headphone knob :)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on August 29, 2019, 12:53:11 PM
Looks like they are now including AC adapters. The thumb drive backup would be useful. I can't say I'll upgrade though.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Brian G on August 29, 2019, 12:59:10 PM
And the 10 II is $1399

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1503006-REG/sound_devices_mixpre_10_ii_10_channel.html
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on August 29, 2019, 02:44:45 PM

 :o :o :o


"In 16- or 24-bit operation, the MixPre II offers analog/digital limiters similar to the original MixPre recorders. These limiters have been improved to give control over ratio, release, and threshold. In 32-bit float mode, the multi-stage A-to-D converters are active to capture the full dynamic range of the incoming signal; no limiters are needed. "
 :o :o :o
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: mjwin on August 29, 2019, 03:34:10 PM
And they added a Lego rubber wheel to the headphone nob :)

Great minds think alike :coolguy:
My immediate reaction was exactly that! (As I've just mentioned on the "new" thread!)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on August 29, 2019, 05:08:02 PM
Yeah it's a really nice mojo :)
I like it.

And they added a Lego rubber wheel to the headphone nob :)

Great minds think alike :coolguy:
My immediate reaction was exactly that! (As I've just mentioned on the "new" thread!)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on August 29, 2019, 05:29:17 PM
I'll stick with my original!!  It has been solid.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: 108Ω on August 29, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
Jumped on a nice price MixPre 3
I am a slutty, slutty taper.      :laugh:

What's the 1st thing to do once she arrives?
Updates?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on August 29, 2019, 06:54:22 PM
I'll stick with my original!!  It has been solid.

yeah i put mine up for sale this morning and was quickly followed by two others. I'd been meaning to list it anyway, moreso because i probably wont be doing any open taping till next summer. not going to firesale mine tho, its a great unit. if it sells it sells, if not, im happy with keeping it.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jbell on August 29, 2019, 07:09:49 PM
Not seeing a big advantage to the upgrade.  Unless I did the Mixpre 10, which is way cheaper than the original.  I haven't been taping a lot the last few years and never run more than 4 channels so probably a waste of money.  I'll hold out for the version III  :bigsmile:

I'll stick with my original!!  It has been solid.

yeah i put mine up for sale this morning and was quickly followed by two others. I'd been meaning to list it anyway, moreso because i probably wont be doing any open taping till next summer. not going to firesale mine tho, its a great unit. if it sells it sells, if not, im happy with keeping it.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on August 29, 2019, 07:10:02 PM
I'll stick with my original!!  It has been solid.
Yup
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 03, 2019, 05:43:29 PM
generic response from SD to my tech support request

Out of curiosity, have you tested standard SD cards that are Class 10?
On Taper Section, most of the cards tested are µSD card which is not recommended. We do see that three standard SD have been tested but have multiple cards of the same model been tested? Not all cards are created equal even if it's the same model.


bolded part is news to me....i replied that its not practical for consumers to test multiple numbers of each type of card



Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chuck on September 03, 2019, 08:49:14 PM
generic response from SD to my tech support request

Out of curiosity, have you tested standard SD cards that are Class 10?
On Taper Section, most of the cards tested are µSD card which is not recommended. We do see that three standard SD have been tested but have multiple cards of the same model been tested? Not all cards are created equal even if it's the same model.


bolded part is news to me....i replied that its not practical for consumers to test multiple numbers of each type of card

Hmmm...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on September 03, 2019, 10:41:02 PM
why would anyone use a micro with an adapter instead of a full size SD card?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 04, 2019, 04:43:21 AM
why would anyone use a micro with an adapter instead of a full size SD card?

micros offer identical performance and are universal in more types of equipment. My A10 or R07 cant take full size SDs, and if im testing cards i want to find the fastest micros as well

Full size SDs are mostly an empty case, they use the same types and grade of memory inside.

https://youtu.be/1W4UScF4GaA?t=61

There are literally *dozens* of UHS-I microSD cards that can sequentially write in excess of 10X the paltry 4MB/sec we need or 8 channels of 24/192.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/photographer/fastest-microsd-cards/

look at the top speeds of the full size SD cards - Exactly the same! for UHS-I as well as UHS-II.

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/photographer/fastest-sd-cards/

sorry, blaming microSD is a poor excuse by sound devices, imo. Esp considering even among full-size cards tested in that thread only 1 out of 4 actually worked at full bitrate (about statistically the same as the tested micros in these limited sample size). I cant comprehend how they have a 10T spec'd for 12 tracks at 24/192 when the mixpre-6 cant reliably write 8 of those channels with properly spec'd cards. I guess nobody uses high bitrates in the real world?

would have been a huge upgrade if the mixpre-IIs were UHS-II compatible. in any case it needs to be solved. I dont know what kind of buffering the mixpre uses if any, but something like 512MB of fast buffer memory is a tiny onboard chip and would be nominal in cost

Theres prob a reason the scorpio uses an SSD - even thought its maximum bitrate is 17MB/sec and well within the sequential write rates of most modern cards

If camera manufacturers can integrate UHS-II/v90 support, it seems like this would be obvious for high-bitrate audio applications. id love to buy one of the cards that can write at 200+MB/sec but none of our gear supports it
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: voltronic on September 05, 2019, 08:36:52 PM
Here are two good discussion threads on JWSound you might all be interested in.  Paul is active on the first, and Jon Tatooles (also of SD) is active on the second:

https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/34175-the-new-mixpre-ii-are-here/& (https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/34175-the-new-mixpre-ii-are-here/&)
https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/34174-floating-point-v-fixed-point-wav-files/& (https://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/34174-floating-point-v-fixed-point-wav-files/&)


In the second thread above, Jon linked a page on the SD site where we can now hear some music recorded in 32-bit float on the MixPre 10 II, at 3 vastly different levels:
https://www.sounddevices.com/noise-in-32-bit-float/ (https://www.sounddevices.com/noise-in-32-bit-float/)


Paul, if you are reading this, I request that you please do same with some very dynamic piano music.  I know that is right in your wheelhouse.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 05, 2019, 10:06:31 PM
am doing some testing at home and the mixpre didnt write a file header- how to fix? its a 6channel and i cant open all 6 channels in soundforge as a .RAW file

EDIT: I popped it back in the mixpre and played it, then ejected and put it back in my computer, and it had a header
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 08, 2019, 04:06:32 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. They are supposed to display the color green or red depending on if it’s clipping or not! I’ll wait until they get back to me but if that’s the case I’m going to have to send this back to you."

Has anyone had this issue? I only powered mine with Sony camcorder L-Mount batteries and the knobs always lit up for me. Maybe it behaves differently when powering it by USB?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on September 08, 2019, 04:13:34 PM
they light up using usb as well.  that said they only light up when getting good levels.  if he just has it turned on with no real gain being input then there would be no color on the knobs....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 08, 2019, 04:17:27 PM
You can set the LED brightness in the settings he probably has them turned all the way down.

Either that or he’s bullshitting you and has buyers remorse.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 08, 2019, 04:27:24 PM
You can set the LED brightness in the settings he probably has them turned all the way down.

Either that or he’s bullshitting you and has buyers remorse.


He just told me he's used USB ext power, USB to a laptop, and AAs... and that he updated the firmware. (I never updated the firmware since I had no need to).

I asked him to send me pictures of the unit with levels hitting 0 and the knob lights off and pictures of the setup screens for one of the channels with no knob light.

The knob lights were lighting up like christmas trees when I used the unit at Dead & Co and Dave Matthews a month ago. This pisses me off.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on September 08, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
it's most certainly user error on his part.  now to get him admit that is a whole other thing....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 08, 2019, 04:37:31 PM
it's most certainly user error on his part.  now to get him admit that is a whole other thing....


I PM'ed Paul Isaacs. Hopefully Paul can get him in contact with the right people in support to help him configure it correctly because ebay always fucks the seller.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 08, 2019, 04:49:34 PM
You can set the LED brightness in the settings he probably has them turned all the way down.

Either that or he’s bullshitting you and has buyers remorse.

I think this is the issue. I just tested on my mixpre-3 and sure enough they don't light up with LED brightness at 1 but start lighting up as soon as I change it to "2".

Although, I'm sure I had it set to 5 on the mixpre-6 for open taping and 1 on the mixpre-3 for stealthing.

Maybe when he updated the firmware, it got changed to "1"?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 08, 2019, 05:04:21 PM
Unfortunately eBay will side with him if he elects to return it
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on September 08, 2019, 05:37:56 PM
He just told me he's used USB ext power, USB to a laptop, and AAs... and that he updated the firmware. (I never updated the firmware since I had no need to).
He updated the firmware and wants a refund?
Geez.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: mjwin on September 09, 2019, 02:05:20 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 09, 2019, 02:18:48 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)


Nope, not too late as I have not received the dreaded "buyer initiating refund" message yet... He disappeared after I requested pictures of his setup screen showing what the LED brightness was set to.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on September 09, 2019, 05:29:40 PM
He disappeared after I requested pictures of his setup screen showing what the LED brightness was set to.
Hm, disappeared, you say. Good for him.
 :-* :-* :-* 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on September 10, 2019, 04:31:22 AM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)

I don't know if this is helpful, particularly since I haven't updated my firmware in a while, but when I turn on my MixPre-6, the knob lights turn on at their brightest level and then a reduced level for a couple of seconds. That is with the brightness set to the lowest level in the menus. At least an indication of whether or not they are functional...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 10, 2019, 01:59:14 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)

I don't know if this is helpful, particularly since I haven't updated my firmware in a while, but when I turn on my MixPre-6, the knob lights turn on at their brightest level and then a reduced level for a couple of seconds. That is with the brightness set to the lowest level in the menus. At least an indication of whether or not they are functional...
same with 3.03, and I have my leds turned down
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on September 10, 2019, 03:45:28 PM
I'm not having any problems with the Anker battery and USB-C, but I am eyeing the MX Powersled for a more secure connection. Anyone running that one? What battery do you use with it?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Brian G on September 10, 2019, 07:25:54 PM
I'm not having any problems with the Anker battery and USB-C, but I am eyeing the MX Powersled for a more secure connection. Anyone running that one? What battery do you use with it?

I have the MX Powersled for my Ver 1 MP6. I used a Talentcell, and a RAV 23000. Both worked great.... I stopped using it when i realized with a good USB C cable I like using the usb battery was just easier.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 10, 2019, 08:11:55 PM
it wouldnt be difficult to modify the existing sled with a hirose or minixlr. you could even do it and leave the AA cells in and have a separate power connection in parallel. providing a voltage near the upper end of what the MX AA pack puts out might bleed a little power into the cells at little consequence
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 11, 2019, 04:02:39 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)

I don't know if this is helpful, particularly since I haven't updated my firmware in a while, but when I turn on my MixPre-6, the knob lights turn on at their brightest level and then a reduced level for a couple of seconds. That is with the brightness set to the lowest level in the menus. At least an indication of whether or not they are functional...
same with 3.03, and I have my leds turned down

This dude is too much. So after sending him all the suggestions of things to try, he goes silent for 2 days then comes back and says "oh the knobs lights are working but now I'm having a problem with the limiters"...

Hi, sorry for the late reply. I got the led on the knobs to light up, but there is something weird happening when I have the limiters on. Im recording a video to show Sound Devices to see what they think. Maybe I’m over thinking, but I will let you know what they say within the next day or so.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ts on September 11, 2019, 04:31:12 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)

I don't know if this is helpful, particularly since I haven't updated my firmware in a while, but when I turn on my MixPre-6, the knob lights turn on at their brightest level and then a reduced level for a couple of seconds. That is with the brightness set to the lowest level in the menus. At least an indication of whether or not they are functional...
same with 3.03, and I have my leds turned down

This dude is too much. So after sending him all the suggestions of things to try, he goes silent for 2 days then comes back and says "oh the knobs lights are working but now I'm having a problem with the limiters"...

Hi, sorry for the late reply. I got the led on the knobs to light up, but there is something weird happening when I have the limiters on. Im recording a video to show Sound Devices to see what they think. Maybe I’m over thinking, but I will let you know what they say within the next day or so.


Do you take returns? Offer it and see if shuts up. Usually works for me. If he still whines, take it back.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 04:44:45 PM
Yes give the option to return, youre not his tech-support. I learned a long time ago that the people that complain the most are not the ones you don’t want to spend time on because they’re never happy.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: gewwang on September 11, 2019, 04:49:53 PM
Sold my mixpre-6 on ebay and now the buyer sends me this message:

"Ive contacted Sound Devices to confirm, but it seems this unit is defective. The volume knobs do not light up when the mice are active. [...]"
I've only just seen this. Hope not too late to save the day, but if he's done a firmware update, or messed with the unit at all, it would be best if you told him to re-load the factory default presets.
menu>presets>load presets>factory default.
Both the knob LEDS and the display will come on at max brightness (& it should operate in "idiot" mode:)

I don't know if this is helpful, particularly since I haven't updated my firmware in a while, but when I turn on my MixPre-6, the knob lights turn on at their brightest level and then a reduced level for a couple of seconds. That is with the brightness set to the lowest level in the menus. At least an indication of whether or not they are functional...
same with 3.03, and I have my leds turned down

This dude is too much. So after sending him all the suggestions of things to try, he goes silent for 2 days then comes back and says "oh the knobs lights are working but now I'm having a problem with the limiters"...

Hi, sorry for the late reply. I got the led on the knobs to light up, but there is something weird happening when I have the limiters on. Im recording a video to show Sound Devices to see what they think. Maybe I’m over thinking, but I will let you know what they say within the next day or so.


Do you take returns? Offer it and see if shuts up. Usually works for me. If he still whines, take it back.

I'd rather not. If I offer a return, I'm out to and from shipping and possibly paypal fees. This guy was threatening to return it already over what appears to be user error on LED brightness. What could/would I have possibly done to the unit to cause the limiter not to work? And especially since he already told me he updated the firmware. At least he's competent enough to contact Sound Devices cust support without me having to do THAT for him.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ts on September 11, 2019, 04:57:25 PM
I think the limiters only work in basic mode?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
yeah its INCREDIBLY lame that paypal keeps fees on refunds since may

sorry about your experience george


on another note, im going to roll back firmware and keep testing cards

im on 3.03. is there a consensus on best 2.xx firmware?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on September 11, 2019, 05:15:53 PM
2.21
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 11, 2019, 05:23:01 PM
I would say 2.21.
Stable firmware and it did not have the pre roll/pre rec buffer feature.
Perhaps SD squeezes the memory buffers too hard and actually let them run internally all the time in the 3.x firmwares even though the user have disabled them.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 06:03:38 PM
i dont see any old firmwares for their 'discontinued' products where mixpre6 now lives, it only downloads 3.03 for me

who has it?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on September 11, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
Usually it shows the most current but then there is a drop-down menu for old ones. I have it in Dropbox if it's not there.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 06:08:06 PM
Usually it shows the most current but then there is a drop-down menu for old ones. I have it in Dropbox if it's not there.

i know what youre talking about but it only does that for current models, discontinued has no such option (bad form imo)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on September 11, 2019, 06:10:04 PM
Pretty shitty of Sound Devices to drop everything from the discontinued models
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 06:13:56 PM
yeah its weird, not that hard to have another webpage on your site for a product youve sold thousands of, changelogs are valuable
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on September 11, 2019, 06:17:51 PM
looks like if you google the exact firmware version it will link to it.  here's what I have in dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f5nn97gpkrw6gv1/AAC-LeDjCxKulz5z-Ip8pr2Xa?dl=0


edit:  direct link to 2.21

https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-firmware-v2-21/

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 06:30:20 PM
thanks george, on with the testing. Reminder to Paul if he reads this that your firmware downloads have no update instructions included. It'sfairly obvious that it should be in root of sd card but some people might find this helpful
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rippleish20 on September 11, 2019, 07:15:18 PM
It's disconcerting that they abandoned us Mixpre-x owners so quickly. When Zoom, the company many tapers belittle, came out with the F8n, they backported many of the new features so F8 users could take advantage.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on September 11, 2019, 07:16:25 PM
I think the limiters only work in basic mode?

No, I use it in advanced mode.

i dont see any old firmwares for their 'discontinued' products where mixpre6 now lives, it only downloads 3.03 for me

who has it?

I have 1.01, 1.11, 1.20, 1.51, 1.52, 1.53, 2.10, 2.20, 2.21, 3.00, 3.01, 3.02, and 3.03. Let me know if you (or anyone else) needs any of them. I am still on 1.53, actually. No issues thus far and I got tired of updating...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 11, 2019, 10:17:18 PM
so far 2.21 is worse with both cards ive tested. boooooo
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 12, 2019, 12:02:37 AM
so far 2.21 is worse with both cards ive tested. boooooo

That’s actually a good thing, kind of.
It means it is somewhat related to firmware and then Sound Devices should be able to do something about it for the better.

If they want to.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 12, 2019, 12:49:31 AM
For all firmware you can use the static link and change the version only to download them all.

http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/firmware/MixPres_1.01.zip
http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/firmware/MixPres_2.20.zip
http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/firmware/MixPres_3.03.zip

etc etc
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 22, 2019, 01:54:33 PM
First post on this forum:
I have started testing my new MixPre-6 II and have run into some unexpected results for Timecode.  I can jam the Gen Timecode from my Tentacle Sync E and let the MixPre keep Free Run Timecode.  All goes well but in as short as three minutes, the MixPre is a frame behind.  In 20 minutes or so, it suddenly lost more than a second as I monitored the Gen Timecode and the Aux 1 (Tentacle) Timecode in the Jam menu display.

Devices set to 24:00 fps and 48KHz and 32bit float.   I’ve run tests up to ten hours and they all lose a second or more Timecode every once in a while.  Someone suggest I must be using 23.976 fps but I’m not.  If I was, the difference would be roughly twice as large as what I’m seeing. 

I have a problem ticket and await a response this week. 

It’s not an emergency, since the MixPre will keep good Timecode if I set the MixPre to use Aux 1 and not Free Run.  It works, but I don’t want a Tentacle tethered continuously as I have other devices to sync too.

If someone has seen this and corrected it, I’d appreciate hearing from you.  Firmware release is 4.0.0.  I’ll get back to this forum when the mystery is solved.

Edit
I also confirmed this is a problem for 24bit audio as well as 32bit float.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: IronFilm on September 23, 2019, 12:20:16 AM
First post on this forum:
I have started testing my new MixPre-6 II and have run into some unexpected results for Timecode.  I can jam the Gen Timecode from my Tentacle Sync E and let the MixPre keep Free Run Timecode.  All goes well but in as short as three minutes, the MixPre is a frame behind.  In 20 minutes or so, it suddenly lost more than a second as I monitored the Gen Timecode and the Aux 1 (Tentacle) Timecode in the Jam menu display.

Devices set to 24:00 fps and 48KHz and 32bit float.   I’ve run tests up to ten hours and they all lose a second or more Timecode every once in a while.  Someone suggest I must be using 23.976 fps but I’m not.  If I was, the difference would be roughly twice as large as what I’m seeing. 

I have a problem ticket and await a response this week. 

It’s not an emergency, since the MixPre will keep good Timecode if I set the MixPre to use Aux 1 and not Free Run.  It works, but I don’t want a Tentacle tethered continuously as I have other devices to sync too.


That sucks, as having to set it to Aux defeats a main reason for buying the Gen 2 recorders!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 23, 2019, 03:23:44 AM
that’s unfortunate i wonder if it’s dropping samples
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 23, 2019, 07:43:38 AM

That sucks, as having to set it to Aux defeats a main reason for buying the Gen 2 recorders!

I had been advised that the MixPre-6 II was so good that I could use it to jam sync my Tentacles!  I’m hopeful Sound Devices will have an answer for the erratic behaviour today.  I thought the new recorder would “just work” and my audio to video syncing in post would be effortless after I calculate the audio delay for each mic into the MixPre.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 23, 2019, 07:44:06 AM
Deleted duplicate post
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 23, 2019, 07:44:48 AM
Deleted duplicate post
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 23, 2019, 07:49:39 AM
that’s unfortunate i wonder if it’s dropping samples
Jerry, I haven’t bothered to test recording audio yet given the Timecode is useless.  I tested Timecode from the Aux1 continuous feed for nine hours yesterday and at least that was flawless so I’ll be ready to record vocal audio now from the Line Audio CM-4 mics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Paul Isaacs on September 23, 2019, 11:43:01 AM
MixPre Version 4.01 has just been released today for all MixPre Gen I and Gen II models. This addresses the timecode issue and many other improvements including SD write performance. I highly recommend all users update their firmware.

Changed

Limiter settings are now available in Custom Mode setups with Gain set to Advanced (MixPre-3 II, MixPre-6 II, and MixPre-10 II).

Fixed

Improvements to SD card writing performance (all models).
AAC rendering of Music Projects no longer results in error (applies to all models with Music features).
Files with only Track R recorded now playback correctly (does not apply to M models).
Record Buffer Errors no longer occur after cycling power while using Record Run timecode (MixPre-10T only).
Various stability issues no longer occur when switching in and out of 32-bit float operation (MixPre-3 II, MixPre-6 II, MixPre-10 II).
Brief gap in LTC timecode output signal no longer occurs during a record split (MixPre-3 II and MixPre-6 II).
Timecode no longer drifts or stamps to the file with an offset. (MixPre-3 II and MixPre-6 II)
Various performance improvements.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 23, 2019, 11:45:21 AM
Lovely Paul.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 23, 2019, 01:58:37 PM
Unfortunately the 4.01 on the MixPre 6 did not sustained writing 8 channels at 192kHz to the Kingston Canvas React 64GB.
FAILED:Record Buffer Error
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on September 23, 2019, 02:01:16 PM

  I’m hopeful Sound Devices will have an answer for the erratic behaviour today.

MixPre Version 4.01 has just been released today for all MixPre Gen I and Gen II models. This addresses the timecode issue and many other improvements including SD write performance. I highly recommend all users update their firmware.

Your hopes appear to have been justified, if not satisfied.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lerond on September 23, 2019, 04:02:51 PM
I'm not having any problems with the Anker battery and USB-C, but I am eyeing the MX Powersled for a more secure connection. Anyone running that one? What battery do you use with it?

I have the MX Powersled for my Ver 1 MP6. I used a Talentcell, and a RAV 23000. Both worked great.... I stopped using it when i realized with a good USB C cable I like using the usb battery was just easier.

When I got my MP6 i ran it on the SD sled, but I didn't like the odd form factor, and felt like it was a hassle to mount/dismount the batteries for recharging (since I'd previously used a 722, which recharged the cells when connected to ext power). Since then I've switched to using USBC RAV PB173 + rt angle cable with AAx4 as backup. Works great except when I'm an idiot (don't recharge the cells, or don't plug in the USB cable).
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 23, 2019, 06:30:43 PM
The first firmware 4.01 test ran for 6.5 hours, losing part of a frame in 15 minutes and going over a few hours when it lost less than two frames by the end.  Next test losing a slightly larger part of a frame in ten minutes and I’ll monitor this for several hours.

What’s good is that I may no longer see those chunks of a second or more lost suddenly.  This gradual loss is similar to before 4.1 but doesn’t get ridiculously bad.  Still losing Timecode so quickly means I can’t use it.  On a real shoot, I’ll have it taking TC from the Tentacle continuously when I can.

Short narrative takes will likely be okay, but most anything will need a fresh jam every shot which is not the way it should be in a multi-camera shoot or I’ll need to sync manually again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Paul Isaacs on September 23, 2019, 09:29:22 PM
The first firmware 4.01 test ran for 6.5 hours, losing part of a frame in 15 minutes and going over a few hours when it lost less than two frames by the end.  Next test losing a slightly larger part of a frame in ten minutes and I’ll monitor this for several hours.

What’s good is that I may no longer see those chunks of a second or more lost suddenly.  This gradual loss is similar to before 4.1 but doesn’t get ridiculously bad.  Still losing Timecode so quickly means I can’t use it.  On a real shoot, I’ll have it taking TC from the Tentacle continuously when I can.

Short narrative takes will likely be okay, but most anything will need a fresh jam every shot which is not the way it should be in a multi-camera shoot or I’ll need to sync manually again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As you know, TC drift between two jammed devices depends on the difference between their internal system clocks. The drift of less than 2 frames in 6.5 hours will be due to the difference between the Tentacle's and MixPre's internal clocks. MixPres are calibrated to an atomic clock. I suspect that so are Tentacle's but don't know that for sure. Run the test again with both devices set to 23.98 and if you still see that level of drift, contact our tech support team to arrange a calibration check. If your unit is a MixPre-10, you can calibrate its clock to an ext TC signal for virtually zero drift.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 23, 2019, 11:34:33 PM
Paul, thanks for the feedback!  I didn’t know about the local calibration of the MixPre-10 II to an external Timecode clock.   Interesting my second 5.5 hour test didn’t change from that early loss of a part frame.  So it’s still just barely less than a frame but didn’t get any worse in the last 4.5 hours!

I don’t know if there is value in shooting 23.976 fps as I’m shooting 24 fps but I’ll do as you request of course.  Then I’ll also test jamming the Tentacle to the MixPre clock and using that Tentacle to jam the other Tentacle.  Will leave both Tentacles on the two cameras and see how they all fare after that method.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 23, 2019, 11:53:50 PM
I wish I knew there was an update coming.Unfortunately as of yesterday I don’t have most of those cards anymore as i had to return them to Amazon. (Yes I’m a bad Amazon’er but unfortunately I can’t personally subsidize hundreds of dollars to test their firmware).

I did a successful recording this weekend but I’ve kind of long since given up on recording anything over six channels of 24/48 with the mixpre. I encourage you guys who still have cards to test them with the new mixpre firmware at 8 channels of 24/192 so we can see if the problem is indeed resolved.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 24, 2019, 01:27:35 AM
Jerry, I need to record 6 tracks so I’ll test that to see if it works this week.  If that works, I’ll go for 8.

I have the only recommended card, SD32GB.  I’m also not adverse to trying my WISE SDXC 128GB card as it should be fast enough even running in UHS-I mode.  It’s 285MB/s in UHS-II mode.  Of course raw speed isn’t as important as suitability to the task.  WISE are tested against theIr own Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K which is where I normally have used it without issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 24, 2019, 01:34:35 AM
Jerry, I need to record 6 tracks so I’ll test that to see if it works this week.  If that works, I’ll go for 8.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great, Rick! we have a thread for results here

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2311409;boardseen#new

If you can try to test all the way to the end of card as it seems that a lot of failures seem to increase on the back half of the cards’ capacity
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Paul Isaacs on September 24, 2019, 07:57:57 AM
A few points if you choose to do intensive SD card testing ...

- Start from a clean slate i.e. low level format your SD card using SD formatter, then quick format the card in MixPre v4.01 before running the first test. Subsequent tests you can simply do a quick format in MixPre v4.01

- You should see significant improvements across the board but we cannot guarantee that every card on the market that quotes a sufficiently high write data speed will work. We have seen cards whose internal house-keeping/garbage collection algorithms can cause them to temporarily bottleneck the data flow.

- We do not recommend microSD cards in adaptors as the adaptor itself is a potential weak point in the data path.

- Understand that an SD card itself can go faulty or be fake. When we do our approval tests, we run those tests across multiple cards of the same model to ensure consistency before we approve.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 24, 2019, 10:36:31 AM
The first firmware 4.01 test ran for 6.5 hours, losing part of a frame in 15 minutes and going over a few hours when it lost less than two frames by the end.  Next test losing a slightly larger part of a frame in ten minutes and I’ll monitor this for several hours.

What’s good is that I may no longer see those chunks of a second or more lost suddenly.  This gradual loss is similar to before 4.1 but doesn’t get ridiculously bad.  Still losing Timecode so quickly means I can’t use it.  On a real shoot, I’ll have it taking TC from the Tentacle continuously when I can...

... MixPres are calibrated to an atomic clock. I suspect that so are Tentacle's but don't know that for sure. Run the test again with both devices set to 23.98 and if you still see that level of drift, contact our tech support team to arrange a calibration check...

Paul, I set all devices to 23.976 fps; the test to jam the Tentacles from the MixPre Gen Timecode vía the stereo out port ran for 9 hours and appears to be flawless.  Both Tentacle devices match the Gen clock.  No need to calibrate or blame the Tentacles or MixPre for inconsistencies.

Currently running (over an hour) the test of MixPre with Gen Timecode jam synced to a Tentacle.  Monitoring that via the Jam screen, there is no difference detected at 23.976 fps.

So you must be relieved as I am.  I’ll let it run longer but doubt there is a problem under 4.01.

However, I still want to verify if running at 24 fps now performs properly.

I can do a low level exFAT erase/format on my Mac (Disk Utility) as requested before stress testing 6/8 tracks armed writing 192KHz 32bit Audio.  All I plan to use at this time is 6 tracks and 48KHz 32bit audio but I’ll do the stress test using your own approved SD32GB card.  In practice if I was really running those rates, I’d test with the Wise 128GB card I have.


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 24, 2019, 10:42:52 AM
A few points if you choose to do intensive SD card testing ...

- Start from a clean slate i.e. low level format your SD card using SD formatter, then quick format the card in MixPre v4.01 before running the first test. Subsequent tests you can simply do a quick format in MixPre v4.01

are you talking about the software found here: https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/

or is 'SD formatter' a Sound Devices app?

When we do our approval tests, we run those tests across multiple cards of the same model to ensure consistency before we approve.

Should we assume right now that there are no cards other than the 32GB Sound Devices branded card that work reliably with the unit?
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 24, 2019, 02:12:30 PM
Running 4.01 under 24 fps and previous difficulty remains.  Running for an hour and the same pattern is there: MixPre Jam synced by Tentacle and loses Timecode sync before long, very close to a list frame by one hour and it might stay that way for many hours of accurate Timecode if you ignore the early problems.

Why is 23.976 so good and 24.00 flaky?  24 is an integer; it’s precise.  23.98 or 23.976 or 23.976024976024... that’s imprecise at some point of accuracy and yet that gives the right Timecode for Tentacle and MixPre.  What’s hard about 24? I’ll revert to drop frame 23.976 filming for the foreseeable future until Sound Devices solves this in release 4.02.

Edit
Five hours running and same result with 4.01 for 24 fps.  Lost less than a frame but still enough to require manual sync.  FAIL 24.

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Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 24, 2019, 09:08:45 PM
Success in the stress test recording MixPre-6 II under 4.01 with 6 tracks armed and the left and right mix tracks at 192KHz with 32bit audio. Filled the branded SD32GB card with only a minute’s recording time left on the card.  So no worries about getting past the halfway mark of the card’s capacity and no worries practically filling the card! 

I’ll complete the formal results chart but need to rush this post as I’m updating the iPhone at the same time. 


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Paul Isaacs on September 24, 2019, 11:05:31 PM
Running 4.01 under 24 fps and previous difficulty remains.  Running for an hour and the same pattern is there: MixPre Jam synced by Tentacle and loses Timecode sync before long, very close to a list frame by one hour and it might stay that way for many hours of accurate Timecode if you ignore the early problems.

Why is 23.976 so good and 24.00 flaky?  24 is an integer; it’s precise.  23.98 or 23.976 or 23.976024976024... that’s imprecise at some point of accuracy and yet that gives the right Timecode for Tentacle and MixPre.  What’s hard about 24? I’ll revert to drop frame 23.976 filming for the foreseeable future until Sound Devices solves this in release 4.02.

Edit
Five hours running and same result with 4.01 for 24 fps.  Lost less than a frame but still enough to require manual sync.  FAIL 24.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is no reason I can think of why 24fps would present a problem. Please will you contact our tech support team to troubleshoot this in more detail. Easier than doing this over a forum. At this point, it is too early to cast whether this is a mixpre problem, tentacle problem or something else.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Paul Isaacs on September 24, 2019, 11:14:27 PM
Quote

are you talking about the software found here: https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/

Yes

Quote
Should we assume right now that there are no cards other than the 32GB Sound Devices branded card that work reliably with the unit?

No. Many other cards will work reliably, it's just that officially approving them is a long and intensive process.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 24, 2019, 11:22:31 PM

There is no reason I can think of why 24fps would present a problem. Please will you contact our tech support team to troubleshoot this in more detail. Easier than doing this over a forum. At this point, it is too early to cast whether this is a mixpre problem, tentacle problem or something else.

Okay.  I’ve been in contact with Tech Support but action by the analyst was pending completion of our discussions here.  I’ve kept Support informed.


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 25, 2019, 02:51:53 AM
found my lucky 32gb sandisk pro micro, the only card that has never failed me. have resumed testing and will do updated tests on the other cards i still have with 4.01 FW
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 25, 2019, 06:23:38 PM
Tested 29.97 fps failed slightly at about the 15 minute and by one hour was almost a complete frame behind. I stopped the test.  It’s the same pattern.

Sadly 25 fps with 4.01 suddenly went from perfect to an even frame behind as I watched it! About 40 minutes into the recording.  Nothing gradual about it.  I killed the test.  Maybe it was a one-time thing and might go well for hours, but I wouldn’t trust Timecode unless you are using 23.976 fps. 

If you want or need to shoot one of the problematic frame rates, rather than jam the MixPre to a Tentacle, you just tell the MixPre to take its Timecode from a tethered Tentacle.  Costs you money if it means you need an extra Tentacle but you’ll have worry free syncing in post or anywhere else.

I’m going to let 23.976 fps run for hours and see if it remains good.  It should because it’s done longer than that before.


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Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 26, 2019, 12:36:41 AM
I retested Timecode at 23.976 fps to see if that frame rate is still flawless.  Over nine hours and it’s still good Timecode, no drift.  I’ll call it a day.


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: mountaintaper on September 26, 2019, 03:20:36 AM
so weird thing happened tonight.  Running MixPre-10 II with 8 channels armed nd no L/R mix channels 32 bit/48khz on a Sandisk Extreme Pro SDXC UHS-1 256GB SD Card...end of the night the display froze up on me..show was over and the levels were frozen.  record light on the knob was still red.  took a few times of hitting stop to get light off and even then the display was still frozen.  powered off and back on and everything was fine.  Even got entire show, no SD write errors.. yay!! but still weird. I ran same amount of channels for even longer on Friday and Saturday and this didn't happen..
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 26, 2019, 09:08:19 AM
You might want to try the Wise 128GB card I filled in a stress test with 8 channels of 32bit audio at 192KHz with no issues in MixPre-6 II 4.01:

https://www.coremicro.com/wise-sd2-128u3-128gb-sdxc-uhs-ii-memory-card


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 26, 2019, 09:17:07 AM
its a shame that the only cards over 32GB that work are either $200 or not available in the US
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 26, 2019, 09:27:02 AM
With what I had to pay for the SD32GB card, the price for the Wise 128GB SDXC card was proportional.  The capacity will get me through my longest day recording music and vocals.

I needed something reliable that is actually tested in use recording a 4K continuous video stream which Wise performs on their BMPCC4K cameras.  I have the Wise CFast 2 1 TB card and the Wise Portable SSD 1TB drive as well as the Wise Duo Card reader (a slit for SD and a slot for CFast 2).  Never failed me... yet!


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on September 26, 2019, 09:27:32 AM
^^, ^^^ That might not be a card issue, especially since the data was written and there wasn't an error message.

Tested 29.97 fps failed slightly at about the 15 minute and by one hour was almost a complete frame behind. I stopped the test.  It’s the same pattern.

Sadly 25 fps with 4.01 suddenly went from perfect to an even frame behind as I watched it! About 40 minutes into the recording.  Nothing gradual about it.  I killed the test.  Maybe it was a one-time thing and might go well for hours, but I wouldn’t trust Timecode unless you are using 23.976 fps. 

If you want or need to shoot one of the problematic frame rates, rather than jam the MixPre to a Tentacle, you just tell the MixPre to take its Timecode from a tethered Tentacle.  Costs you money if it means you need an extra Tentacle but you’ll have worry free syncing in post or anywhere else.

I’m going to let 23.976 fps run for hours and see if it remains good.  It should because it’s done longer than that before.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You may want to check in on one of the Facebook groups. Lots of chaff to separate from the wheat, to be sure, but there are a lot of people who are doing film stuff and Sound Devices staff post fairly regularly. Many of the people here are audio only...
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 26, 2019, 09:31:42 AM
Thanks, Aaron, very thoughtful of you.  I try to keep a low profile outside of the Blackmagic Design user forum.  I know that attitude of mine could use some adjusting!


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on September 26, 2019, 09:39:25 AM
^ I also try to keep a low profile out there in the digital wilds. I have a Facebook account with zero posts and the bare minimum of personal data. I pretty much got it to read the SD, DPA, and taper's pages and to occasionally reach out to a band I want to record. Maybe some information regarding the Timecode, though, so I thought it might be useful for you. Lots of chaff, though!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: adrianb on September 27, 2019, 02:42:18 PM
Has anybody got a workaround for this? I just want to record the ISO tracks because that's all I need and to save on file sizes, but when I do this it seems that I cannot check my recordings in the MixPre because it can only play the mixed tracks.

Is there a way to playback the ISO tracks, either individually or combined?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: adrianb on September 27, 2019, 03:12:15 PM
Has anybody got a workaround for this? I just want to record the ISO tracks because that's all I need and to save on file sizes, but when I do this it seems that I cannot check my recordings in the MixPre because it can only play the mixed tracks.

Is there a way to playback the ISO tracks, either individually or combined?

Ignore me, I've sorted it.

Change Headphone to Advanced, choose HP Preset to Preset 1 and edit Preset 1 to pick the ISO tracks. They don't make this easy!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: vwmule on September 28, 2019, 08:37:33 PM
Does new firmware disable headphone output? I can’t get anything and am trying to stream tonight.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 28, 2019, 09:32:23 PM
Does new firmware disable headphone output? I can’t get anything and am trying to stream tonight.
mine works on 4.01
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 28, 2019, 09:38:07 PM
darnit, thought i actually found a stable card over 32GB. This $60 Transcend 64GB UHS-II card recorded the full 3h38m the first two passes, then failed on the third pass after 47 minutes (15 seconds into a new file). Anecdotally it seems like a lot of the failures are soon after flipping to a new file

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2312164#msg2312164
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 28, 2019, 11:01:14 PM
Yes.
I'm seeing many failures the first few seconds when the new file is getting written.

I'm also have the Timecode running wild and not responding correctly to Stop button if the recorder is left running while not confirming the Buffer Error failure.
This have happen quite a few times. Both with 3.x firmware but also with 4.01.
I finally submitted a support ticket to SD about it but don't really expect it to be fixed as it does only occur after a Buffer Failure.


(https://i.imgur.com/T0sVRDQ.mp4)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 29, 2019, 12:27:35 AM
Yes.
I'm seeing many failures the first few seconds when the new file is getting written.

the next failure was identical. first one was 15 sec into the 4th file. second one was 44 sec in

almost makes me think the reason we see less failures at lower bitrates is because it flips thru less files

i can usually get a whole set of six tracks@24/48 on one file. maybe one file flip at most
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 29, 2019, 12:51:46 AM
My Sound Devices branded 32GB card failed with a Data Error once today during a shoot.  Just once thankfully.  First time for everything.  Writing only 6 tracks 32bit 48KHz.  It had passed for me when stress testing to the maximum possible on the MixPre-6 II.


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 29, 2019, 01:05:16 AM
My Sound Devices branded 32GB card failed with a Data Error once today during a shoot.  Just once thankfully.  First time for everything.  Writing only 6 tracks 32bit 48KHz.  It had passed for me when stress testing to the maximum possible on the MixPre-6 II.


yeah the smaller cards i like to test and test.

its not fair that a 32GB card only gets tested for under 2 hr when a 128GB has to go 7+

i thought i was good with the new 64GB card i was testing but it failed in its 8th hour. in a perfect world id like to see any device go 100+ hrs on the bench before i put it to any mission critical task
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 29, 2019, 01:07:26 AM
If you find that perfect world, be sure and invite us too!


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 29, 2019, 01:22:35 AM
If you find that perfect world, be sure and invite us too!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ive got loads of devices that pass that test, tbh. every other bit bucket i use can do that. In reality id be happy if i can find any card over 32GB that can do 10 hours without errors on the mixpre but i havent found one yet. and this is not the first failure reported with the supported 32GB card...im going to start doing a 2-track backup out of the lineout with my mixpre
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on September 29, 2019, 10:38:10 AM
Jerry, remember my post about the Wise SDXC 128GB card in the forum section on successful cards.  It should meet your specs.  At some point doing the job right is worth it.  I’m taking my own advice and going to replace my Sound Devices 32GB card with my Wise 128GB this week in preparation for next weekend’s music video.


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 29, 2019, 10:49:30 AM
At some point doing the job right is worth it.

agreed, i just feel bad for people who have to shell out an extra $200 to get the full use out of their unit

a lot of us are hobbyists and on a budget

for now ill keep testing and plan use my 32GB sandisk pro micro. The only card that ive never seen have an error in 10+ hours of testing

its good for 10 hrs at the 6ch of 24/48 i normally do
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 29, 2019, 11:38:02 AM
Hey Jerry

If you want I can order some Integral 128 or 256GB SD cards for you from Amazon.co.uk and then ship them to you if you like.
They works like charm, offer high performance and are priced very attractive.
Send a PM and we will sort that.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on September 30, 2019, 12:38:03 PM
I reported the unstoppable timecode running wild bug which effects the MixPre-6 to not respond to STOP button at all.

And got the highly ignorant copy paste reply from Sound Devices support regarding supported cards.
They did not even ask about the bug I reported.
Instead they made a comment Looking up the cards you listed, it looks like two of them may be Micro SD cards
None of the cards I listed was micro SD cards. They are full sized SDHC and SDXC cards from reputable manufacturers like Sandisk, Toshiba and Kingston.

I'm beginning to believe that Sound Devices support is drowned in tickets regarding cards so they revert to copy pasting in hope to close the ticket.



Thank you for contacting Sound Devices. You are correct that the only card that has been thoroughly tested for the MixPre Series is the SAM-32 SD card. However, as stated on our Approved Media page, “Many SD, SDHC, and SDXC cards from other reputable manufacturers, like Delkin or SanDisk, that meet or exceed class 10 speeds are acceptable.” (https://www.sounddevices.com/mixpre-series-approved-media-list/) Please use that to find SD cards that work for you.

Looking up the cards you listed, it looks like two of them may be Micro SD cards. If that is the case, it is not recommended to use Micro SD cards with the MixPre as they are highly likely to encounter errors.

Thanks,

Technical Support
Sound Devices, LLC
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on September 30, 2019, 12:57:24 PM
Looking up the cards you listed, it looks like they may be SD cards. If that is the case, it is not recommended to use SD cards with the MixPre as almost all SD cards are highly likely to encounter errors when used with the Mixpre series.

Fixed that for them ;)


the catch-all response its annoying. i tested over a dozen cards and the *only* one of those that doesnt fail is a 32GB micro

and now we have multiple confirmed failures on the only supported card they recommend

putting burden of media testing entirely on the users is not great support

it seems 4.01 is less stable than 3.03, no real improvement with media compatability, and I personally just had a lockup mid-recording and had to reboot.

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ts on October 02, 2019, 08:07:10 PM
My apologies for not reading thru the entire 6 part thread, but how easy is it to set up a 3M for 2 channel stereo recording? Thanks.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 02, 2019, 08:44:24 PM
My apologies for not reading thru the entire 6 part thread, but how easy is it to set up a 3M for 2 channel stereo recording? Thanks.

very easy but there are a ton of cheaper 2 channel recorders with phantom if thats all you need
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ts on October 03, 2019, 04:45:09 PM
My apologies for not reading thru the entire 6 part thread, but how easy is it to set up a 3M for 2 channel stereo recording? Thanks.

very easy but there are a ton of cheaper 2 channel recorders with phantom if thats all you need

A lot of cheap 3’s and 3M’s on the market right now. I’d rather own one of these than a Tascam, Zoom or Marantz.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on October 03, 2019, 04:49:06 PM
can't speak for the 3m but the 3 you would disarm channel channel 3  (push the gain knob for the options) and in record settings tun off l/r mix.  thus a 2 channel recording.  very easy.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rippleish20 on October 03, 2019, 05:24:06 PM
With a 3 you can also use custom mode and record all three channels as ISOs (in a polywav). I don't think the 3m can use custom mode however.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on October 03, 2019, 05:30:28 PM
I would definitely go with the 3. If you need the M features, you can buy that as an add-on, but with the 3M you don't get Mid-Side and maybe a couple of other things...
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rippleish20 on October 03, 2019, 06:01:06 PM
I would definitely go with the 3. If you need the M features, you can buy that as an add-on, but with the 3M you don't get Mid-Side and maybe a couple of other things...

I second this. The M have some limitations and I have the M plugin and it's useless, at least to me.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 03, 2019, 06:35:45 PM
On the question of power to the MixPre-6 II:
The DC Power supplies 5V.  Okay.

The recorder can run from a four battery sled.  The batteries can be 1.5V.  Used serially, the batteries are 6V one time use or about 5V rechargeable.  I have a Li-ion non-rechargeable.

I bought larger Sony L-series batteries so I wouldn’t have to think about batteries on a very long day.  The salesman over the phone suggested the Sound Devices XL-B3 and I ordered two with charger.  The online documentation for the MixPre says you need to mount two of the large batteries.

Today I got them and each battery is 7.4V 7800mAh.   It looks like it will take forever and a day to charge one battery in the puny single battery charger. 

Does anyone know if both batteries are required to be mounted in the MixPre sled for proper operation?

If both are required, just how many hours will these batteries last between charges, 600 hours!?


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: darby on October 03, 2019, 07:23:44 PM
On the question of power to the MixPre-6 II:
The DC Power supplies 5V.  Okay.

The recorder can run from a four battery sled.  The batteries can be 1.5V.  Used serially, the batteries are 6V one time use or about 5V rechargeable.  I have a Li-ion non-rechargeable.

I bought larger Sony L-series batteries so I wouldn’t have to think about batteries on a very long day.  The salesman over the phone suggested the Sound Devices XL-B3 and I ordered two with charger.  The online documentation for the MixPre says you need to mount two of the large batteries.

Today I got them and each battery is 7.4V 7800mAh.   It looks like it will take forever and a day to charge one battery in the puny single battery charger. 

Does anyone know if both batteries are required to be mounted in the MixPre sled for proper operation?

If both are required, just how many hours will these batteries last between charges, 600 hours!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can run the MixPre with only one L-Mount in the sled... they can be hot-swapped also.
I could easily get 5+ hours running 2 channels P48 on a single L-Mount like the ones you described.
You can buy inexpensive Kastar L-Mounts and chargers on ebay... check them out.
I gave up on L-Mount because of size and weight... good luck!
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 03, 2019, 10:35:22 PM
Thanks for the insight.  At least I know they’ll come in handy on a very long day which can happen.


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Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 03, 2019, 10:38:55 PM
I’ve been charging one new unused battery for 6.5 hours and it’s still showing a solid red on the charger.  How may hours will this require to recharge fully?


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Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 04, 2019, 12:15:00 AM
Over 9 hours and still a red light on the single battery charger.


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Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: voltronic on October 04, 2019, 06:12:48 AM
On the question of power to the MixPre-6 II:
The DC Power supplies 5V.  Okay.

The recorder can run from a four battery sled.  The batteries can be 1.5V.  Used serially, the batteries are 6V one time use or about 5V rechargeable.  I have a Li-ion non-rechargeable.

I bought larger Sony L-series batteries so I wouldn’t have to think about batteries on a very long day.  The salesman over the phone suggested the Sound Devices XL-B3 and I ordered two with charger.  The online documentation for the MixPre says you need to mount two of the large batteries.

Today I got them and each battery is 7.4V 7800mAh.   It looks like it will take forever and a day to charge one battery in the puny single battery charger. 

Does anyone know if both batteries are required to be mounted in the MixPre sled for proper operation?

If both are required, just how many hours will these batteries last between charges, 600 hours!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can run the MixPre with only one L-Mount in the sled... they can be hot-swapped also.
I could easily get 5+ hours running 2 channels P48 on a single L-Mount like the ones you described.
You can buy inexpensive Kastar L-Mounts and chargers on ebay... check them out.
I gave up on L-Mount because of size and weight... good luck!

I just bought these batteries for my Zoom F6, because I was wary of using the cheap brands of L-mounts you find on eBay and Amazon.  There are lots of reports of false capacity claims and not holding a charge after a short time period of use.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1373127-REG/dracast_drbk2npf2ch6600_2_x_np_f_6600mah.html/reviews (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1373127-REG/dracast_drbk2npf2ch6600_2_x_np_f_6600mah.html/reviews)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 04, 2019, 07:45:28 AM
Over 9 hours and still a red light on the single battery charger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

does the charger list charging current? some are designed to trickle charge for various reasons
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 04, 2019, 07:54:36 AM
I still use Classic MixPre plugged to R09HR recorder which is ok for my field recording purposes, but 32 bit recording is something that may worth move to new MixPre. Seems i need to read slowly earlier discussion and collect info in my head... I have one main question - did someone test old MixPre preamps plugged to line-in vs new MixPre-3 preamps?

I also want to share some photos of MixPre-3 (first generation) internal components from this source https://fccid.io/2AKLX-739M3/Internal-Photos/Internal-Photos-3297643
I recover some info from PCB photos and found this:
AKM AK5558VN A/D chip https://www.akm.com/global/en/products/audio/audio-adc/ak5558vn/
ZYNQ 7000 SoC FPGA chip https://www.xilinx.com/products/silicon-devices/soc/zynq-7000.html

(https://i.imgur.com/SLOgYjh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ECjJ7Ue.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0hwhMBD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/EI5yCZm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0q6FVCC.jpg)

Looking at those photos i can't understand where are all those well known analogue transformers that amplify microphone signal? Are they change something and amplification is done in completely different way now?
Here is image of older "Classic" MixPre to compare. You can clearly see two large transformers.

(https://i.imgur.com/Ljv3rRx.jpg)
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 04, 2019, 12:03:47 PM
Jerry, I’m using genuine Sound Devices branded Sony L-series batteries and single charger. The batteries each took about 9 hours to charge first time.  That may not represent reality once I’m using the batteries as they aren’t often going to near depletion.  Tomorrow is my first shoot with those batteries instead of the 4 battery sled.  I could use them for about five hours, but I’m going to use the DC Power adapter indoors when I can.  I’d say maximum 2 hours where I’ll be on the run and outdoors.  I was hoping to have the Sennheisers and the small Line Audio vocal mics in action so need to be cautious until I learn more about the batteries.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 05, 2019, 02:08:53 AM
The firmware 4.0.1 appears to affect the memory card write performance.
After I was in contact with SD support, did another factory reset and cleared out all previously saved configs.

I actually manage to perform several recordings at max channels and highest bitrate to both my Kingston Canvas React 64GB cards. This card only managed 7 channels (5 ISO + 2 mix down) with firmware 3.0.3. Now it managed 6+2 without any problem. This is great.

On the other hand a Toshiba Exceria N302 64GB card that previously managed 6+2 at 96KHz but failed after 45 minutes on 6+2 at 192KHz, now with firmware 4.0.1 fails in under 5 seconds with 6+2 at 196KHz. It can not even handle 4+2 for more then a few seconds. 2+2 works.
This is actually really good. Failing after seconds if far better than failing after 45 minutes or a couple of hours.

The Integral Memory UltimaPro X Gold 128GB & 256GB or so far the best performers.
Low cost, high speeds and rock solid recordings. Both for audio and video.
A 5 year warranty is decent as well.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DATBRAD on October 05, 2019, 09:54:45 AM

Looking at those photos i can't understand where are all those well known analogue transformers that amplify microphone signal? Are they change something and amplification is done in completely different way now?
Here is image of older "Classic" MixPre to compare. You can clearly see two large transformers.

The 552, 302, MP-1, and MM-1 are the only products they make that still use transformer balanced inputs, everything else has transformerless active balanced inputs. The MP-1 and MM-1 have Lundal input transformers, but I'm not sure about the 302 transformers. Transformers are big, heavy, and power hungry and marketing trends imply transformers are old tech no longer needed. Other than the total galvanic isolation of current between components, the advantages of transformers aren't enough to warrant using them I suppose. Coloration and power requirements likely are the reason they seem to be used less and less in newer designs.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 05, 2019, 11:58:39 AM
Transformers handles saturation from loud signals very well.
But compared with 32-bit float - transformers are ancient. :)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 05, 2019, 12:36:38 PM
But is it possible that transformers based systems add some unique character to the sound? As you know better tech is not always better art.  Anyway hope someone somehow will do side by side test.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on October 05, 2019, 05:32:46 PM
But is it possible that transformers based systems add some unique character to the sound? As you know better tech is not always better art.  Anyway hope someone somehow will do side by side test.
I don't want gear adding character to sound. I am not an artist.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 05, 2019, 07:39:19 PM
I am also little confused with info form manual:
RECORDING:
MixPre-6ii = 8 Tracks: stereo mix + 6 ISOs
MixPre-3ii = 5 Tracks: stereo mix + 3 ISO’s

So is it possible to adjust MixPre-3 to record 3 mic inputs and aux stereo input same time (5 tracks total)? Or 5 tracks on paper appears 3 tracks in reality?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 05, 2019, 08:00:17 PM
stereo mix is what it says.... a mixdown of the available inputs/ISOs

there are 3 and 6 inputs available on those units, respectively
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 06, 2019, 02:58:38 AM
Shijan
As Jerry writes they do only record 3 and 6 individual channels (ISO).
The two addition 2 stereo mix down channels can be seen as a finished mixed result done on location of those individual recorded channels. Instead of doing the mixing of the three or six channels back home in post.

When in advanced mode the ISO tracks are recorded prefade so the level of large channel knobs only affects the mix down tracks.
The ISO channels recording level is defined from the set Gain in the gain stage.
But you can remix/ReRecord the stereo mix down tracks based on the ISO tracks in field as well.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 06, 2019, 04:30:21 AM
This is very odd artificial limitation of MixPre-3.
My idea was to keep classic MixPre, and use ultra compact MixPre-3II for everyday stereo field recording. And in some rare situations when i need more mic inputs i was thinking to plug MixPre to MixPre-3II line in and have 5 mic inputs total. But seems it will not work like this with MixPre-3II.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 06, 2019, 05:39:43 AM
I also preferred MixPre-3 because more free space around rotary headphones button.

(https://digitalfilmmaker.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/audio-recorders.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 06, 2019, 06:13:33 AM
The mixpre-3 only have three preamps. The additional two mix down channels are summed internally and written as mix tracks into the wave.

But you could route timecode out from the mixpre-3 II into the mixpre-3 line/TC in and that way get them running time code synced with three channels of microphone or line input on each mixpre.
And that way creating a 6 channel recording package.

This is very odd artificial limitation of MixPre-3.
My idea was to keep classic MixPre, and use ultra compact MixPre-3II for everyday stereo field recording. And in some rare situations when i need more mic inputs i was thinking to plug MixPre to MixPre-3II line in and have 5 mic inputs total. But seems it will not work like this with MixPre-3II.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 06, 2019, 06:18:03 AM
Interesting idea, but i don't have MixPre-3.
I told about original MixPre conencted to MixPre-3II 3.5mm aux line-in.

(https://www.adorama.com/images/Large/ue01179.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Ronmac on October 06, 2019, 08:51:40 AM
All versions of MixPre3 are limited to recording 3 channels, no matter what source (mic input or Aux input) you choose.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 06, 2019, 08:53:18 AM
Ahh.
I misunderstood you.

With the original mixpre connected to an input of the mixpre-3 you would still get three channels in the mixpre-3 out of which one is a mix down of the two from the original mixpre.
That’s really not any real superior solution.
A mixpre-6 II would give with four microphone inputs and two line inputs and separate timecode.
The mixpre-6 first gen would give you the same amount of inputs as long as you don’t want or need timecode. That complicates it a bit.
You need to sacrifice the 5/6 channels I believe. At least one of them.

Interesting idea, but i don't have MixPre-3.
I told about original MixPre conencted to MixPre-3II 3.5mm aux line-in.

(https://www.adorama.com/images/Large/ue01179.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on October 06, 2019, 02:07:14 PM
I also preferred MixPre-3 because more free space around rotary headphones button.
I like having more than three inputs.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on October 06, 2019, 04:13:11 PM
It’s the mixpre3 not the mixpre5.

If you want more than 3 channels, you’ll need to buy the 6.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 06, 2019, 04:29:50 PM
I understand that they try to protect higher models (3 channels vs 6 difefrence sounds more epic than 5 channels vs 6), but maybe send feedback to Paul or other developers somehow and with future firmware update mixpre3 may became mixpre3+2? It is really very odd artificial limit for this powerful device. It can record 5 chanenls when conencted to PC as sound card (i guess), it support fastest SD cards, so why it not allowed to record same 5 channels internally?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 06, 2019, 05:16:21 PM
It might look that way.
But the MixPre-3 only have three preamps and one single AK5576 6 channel ADC configured in a 6 to 3 channel summation so it can only manage 3 analog inputs.
The 5 inputs over usb are digital data streams. Already converted from an analog stage to digital domain by some other ADC, perhaps in the computer or before it entered the computer.

But if you would find an external 5 channel pre amp with host usb interface, then you might be able to use the mixpre-3 as a 5 channel bit bucket.

I understand that they try to protect higher models (3 channels vs 6 difefrence sounds more epic than 5 channels vs 6), but maybe send feedback to Paul or other developers somehow and with future firmware update mixpre3 may became mixpre3+2? It is really very odd artificial limit for this powerful device. It can record 5 chanenls when conencted to PC as sound card (i guess), it support fastest SD cards, so why it not allowed to record same 5 channels internally?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rippleish20 on October 06, 2019, 05:49:44 PM
 
Mixpre-3 : 3 Preamp | 3 Channel | 5 Track Audio Recorder
Mixpre-6:  4 Preamp | 6 Channel | 8 Track Audio Recorder


MixPre-6 can send eight channels (1-6, L, R) to the computer and receive four channels from the computer via USB, while the MixPre-3 can send five in (1-3, L, R) and receive two out


It seems to me that they could enable five channel recording. The aux inputs don't the kashmir pre-amps. While it's artifical, that they way they designed the 3, presumably to not compete with the 6.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 06, 2019, 10:26:15 PM
The only way the mixpre-3 could manage six channels in its ADC would be:

1. Not use the 6 to 3 channel summation and set the ODP, PW0, PW1 & PW2 accordingly for 6 channel use.
2. Have hardwired switchable support to accept six separate AINn.
3. Accepting a drop in DR with 3dB.

1. Is possible as they are logical settings, L or H.
2. This is down to the hardwired paths on pcb and supporting components.
3. This is down to SD accepting lesser signal to noise ratio.


So unless Paul et al have designed the pcb to support six individual inputs to the six AINn inputs, it’s not physically possible to offer more than 3 channels into and out of a single ADC AK5576.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 07, 2019, 07:57:11 AM
Thanks for explanation, now it is more clear for me.
So MixPre3 and 6 use dual ADC for each input to combine high and low gain. Each ADC is separate phisycal chip soldered to pcb. MixPre10 use the same? What about triple ADC explained in Sound Devices patent application? Is it possible that they use it in high end Scorpio line? Or it is technology yet reserved for future?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 07, 2019, 10:47:52 AM
If it is not against forum rules, take a look at my custom made 14.8V 50Wh 18650 Battery Enclosure Module. It was  designed for BMMCC cameras, but it also can be mounted directly at the top of MixPre and combined with DC Power to USB Type-C Adapter Converter it can power MixPre all day. Not too slim form factor, but at least it will feels like rugged solid single brick stack inside your bag.

https://lavky.com/handmade/home-and-hobby/electronics-and-circuitry/18650-battery-enclosure/?product=UW590888
https://lavky.com/handmade/home-and-hobby/electronics-and-circuitry/dc-to-usb-c-converter/?product=AM429494

(https://i.imgur.com/f0ejlaC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CtKfjXv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tkWRH1J.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xldOb06.jpg)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 07, 2019, 10:52:10 AM
If it is not against forum rules, take a look at my custom made 14.8V 50Wh 18650 Battery Enclosure Module.

cant see ginormous pictures
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 07, 2019, 10:55:32 AM
another lockup with 4.01 today. counter displays 0:00 and all meters are frozen, but remaining disk space still counting down as if it is recording. will let it run and see if it actually recorded
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on October 07, 2019, 10:55:48 AM
If it is not against forum rules, take a look at my custom made 14.8V 50Wh 18650 Battery Enclosure Module.

cant see ginormous pictures

Ok, i edited post with smaller sized images now
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 07, 2019, 11:02:04 AM
Not exactly.

All MixPre's uses a single pre amp feeding audio into an AD converter from Asahi Kasei which have 6 resp 8 input AD channels.
These AD channels can be summed in different ways to achieve better signal to noise dynamics. 3dB for each multiple summing.
In this case they are summed 6-to-3 and 8-to-4.
That means the preamp feeds 2 inputs on the AD Converter which are summed digitally and output divided into half amplitude, thus adding 3dB to the S/N ratio.
But they are still only using a single pre amp per input.

The new MixPre II are using multiple parallel preamps with different gain into different ADC stages which then are summed with floating point into a _very_ wide input range.


Thanks for explanation, now it is more clear for me.
So MixPre3 and 6 use dual ADC for each input to combine high and low gain. Each ADC is separate phisycal chip soldered to pcb. MixPre10 use the same? What about triple ADC explained in Sound Devices patent application? Is it possible that they use it in high end Scorpio line? Or it is technology yet reserved for future?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 07, 2019, 07:59:02 PM
another lockup with 4.01 today. counter displays 0:00 and all meters are frozen, but remaining disk space still counting down as if it is recording. will let it run and see if it actually recorded

despite the display, counter and levels locking up, it kept recording until the card was full. if youre on 4.01 and your device hangs, look at the remaining recording time display, if its counting down youre prob ok.

prob safest to revert to 3.03 for now
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 07, 2019, 11:46:01 PM
Jerry, what media card are you using?  I’m staying with my Wise SDXC 128 GB after my Sound Devices 32 GB card had a data error.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 08, 2019, 01:35:02 AM
Jerry, what media card are you using?  I’m staying with my Wise SDXC 128 GB after my Sound Devices 32 GB card had a data error.


somebody bought my mixpre, wrapping up my testing and shipping in the morning

never found any SDXC cards that worked reliably with my unit (out of 5 fullsize sdxc and 5 microsdxc). found 4 different models of 32GB card (2 full size, 2 micro) that worked flawlessly and i tested 10-30+ hours each and couldn't break them

my top two performers (aka most tested and/or best benchmarks) of the 4 cards i couldnt break:

1. Sandisk 32GB "100 MB/s" Extreme Pro microsdhc (>70 hrs of testing on two different cards, two different firmwares)

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2305855#msg2305855

2. Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB SDHC UHS-I Card "Older generation" - "95 MB/sec" (>13 hours so far at 24/192 on 2 different firmwares)

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2312650#msg2312650


would have liked to test that full size one a bit more, might be able to get to 20-25 hrs of testing but m not gonna get up in the middle of the night ;) need to ship tomorrow.

justme sent me the Integral 128GB card hes had luck with to test... but it hasnt gotten here yet. I was going to send it back but if hes down (as i suspect) we can pass it around here in the US for a bit)

I'll prob pick up a mixpre-6 II or a zoom sometime before next summer when i see a deal, i have no full-rig shows for next 6 months

while some people have had luck with the larger cards, they all eventually break for me. the best i had went 22 hrs before failing, but indeed did fail. testing the smaller cards is kind of a pain in the ass, 4X as many tests. still for what i do, 6 channels at 24/48, a 32GB is more than enough. id rather have multiple $10 cards stacked up if i needed to do >10 hrs of recording in a session
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: borjam on October 08, 2019, 01:56:46 AM
Thanks for explanation, now it is more clear for me.
So MixPre3 and 6 use dual ADC for each input to combine high and low gain.
As far as I know (I read it elsewhere) the original MixPre-3 and MixPre-6 use dual ADCs per channel in order to reduce input noise.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: lerond on October 08, 2019, 02:37:49 AM
another lockup with 4.01 today. counter displays 0:00 and all meters are frozen, but remaining disk space still counting down as if it is recording. will let it run and see if it actually recorded

despite the display, counter and levels locking up, it kept recording until the card was full. if youre on 4.01 and your device hangs, look at the remaining recording time display, if its counting down youre prob ok.

prob safest to revert to 3.03 for now

To offer a counter-anecdote, I've been running 4.01 (after staying on 1.21 since forever) for 2 channels at 24/44 in an original MP6 for 2-3 weeks now. So far over ~20 sets of 45min to over 2h long, I've only had one problem: a strange situation where I powered the device on and then record wouldn't engage: levels showed, but it wouldn't start. Turned off, disconnected my USB-C cell, counted to 5, then reconnected and powered back up: all good, except for losing a few seconds of pre-performance stage banter.  Of course, YMMV....
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on October 08, 2019, 03:35:18 AM

justme sent me the Integral 128GB card hes had luck with to test... but it hasnt gotten here yet. I was going to send it back but if hes down (as i suspect) we can pass it around here in the US for a bit)

Sure. Please let other test it. :D
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 11, 2019, 12:41:19 PM
When I made my recent recordings using Timecode, I left the ubits all zeros.  Now I’m thinking I should use them to record CC:YY:MM:DD such as 20191011 to complement the Timecode HH:MM:SS:FF.   Is that of any value in metadata to sort and sync clips by Timecode recorded over a period of time? 

The Timecode Mode has a downward arrow and upwards arrow to select a Mode.  It defaults to U:U:U:U which seems the only appropriate mode for a date CC:YY:MM:DD.  When I select Mode D:M:Y:U, it does rearrange the values automatically but that’s not the smartest sort sequence. 

I’m trying to determine how best to handle audio recorded potentially spanning a period of months or years for one project.  That audio will need to be synced to video.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on October 11, 2019, 03:53:04 PM
another lockup with 4.01 today. counter displays 0:00 and all meters are frozen, but remaining disk space still counting down as if it is recording. will let it run and see if it actually recorded

despite the display, counter and levels locking up, it kept recording until the card was full. if youre on 4.01 and your device hangs, look at the remaining recording time display, if its counting down youre prob ok.

prob safest to revert to 3.03 for now

To offer a counter-anecdote, I've been running 4.01 (after staying on 1.21 since forever) for 2 channels at 24/44 in an original MP6 for 2-3 weeks now. So far over ~20 sets of 45min to over 2h long, I've only had one problem: a strange situation where I powered the device on and then record wouldn't engage: levels showed, but it wouldn't start. Turned off, disconnected my USB-C cell, counted to 5, then reconnected and powered back up: all good, except for losing a few seconds of pre-performance stage banter.  Of course, YMMV....
3.03 is probably the most stable
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on October 28, 2019, 07:23:38 PM
Looks like I have a problem with channel 4 of my MP6. At some point, it has started running 12+ db below channel 3 when running a pair. Tested the same mics with channels 1&2 and they're as normal. Anyone else had this problem develop?
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 28, 2019, 07:38:58 PM
I’ve used a pair of Line Audio Design CM-4 mics on 1 and 2.  When I used the Sennheiser AVX on 3 and MKH416 on 4, it’s apples and oranges.  Same apples and oranges yesterday with a line feed from the soundboard on 1 and MKH416 on 4.  The levels in post were different but that likely because I had a lower gain on 4.  I can do a test of the pair of CM-4s on 3 and 4 but I don’t have much time available for the next week or so.  If no one else can test their MixPre-6 II, I can do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on October 28, 2019, 07:52:33 PM
I’ve used a pair of Line Audio Design CM-4 mics on 1 and 2.  When I used the Sennheiser AVX on 3 and MKH416 on 4, it’s apples and oranges.  Same apples and oranges yesterday with a line feed from the soundboard on 1 and MKH416 on 4.  The levels in post were different but that likely because I had a lower gain on 4.  I can do a test of the pair of CM-4s on 3 and 4 but I don’t have much time available for the next week or so.  If no one else can test their MixPre-6 II, I can do it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Rick. I encountered the issue for the first time on Saturday night at a show but confirmed it a few minutes ago using my stereo.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on October 28, 2019, 07:57:06 PM
Okay, how much additional gain should I add so 4 matches 3 sound levels?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on October 29, 2019, 09:08:24 AM
Looks like I have a problem with channel 4 of my MP6. At some point, it has started running 12+ db below channel 3 when running a pair. Tested the same mics with channels 1&2 and they're as normal. Anyone else had this problem develop?

are your channels linked?  balance at 0?  any chance you changed the actual gain in record settings (not on knob) my accident?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on October 30, 2019, 07:08:11 PM
Looks like I have a problem with channel 4 of my MP6. At some point, it has started running 12+ db below channel 3 when running a pair. Tested the same mics with channels 1&2 and they're as normal. Anyone else had this problem develop?

are your channels linked?  balance at 0?  any chance you changed the actual gain in record settings (not on knob) my accident?

yes to first two, not sure on the last one. i reflashed the 3.02 firmware and it seems to be working OK now...problems just in time for tomorrow night  :smash:
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on October 31, 2019, 05:53:01 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Off topic, but what is this and why do we need to know about it?
Please just say "it's nothing, never mind, I can turn off the feature where it automatically ads an advertisement to every single thing I post online."
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Gordon on October 31, 2019, 07:29:27 AM
Tapatalk automatically adds an annoying signature!  Easy to turn off but most users don't realize it.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on October 31, 2019, 10:32:55 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Off topic, but what is this

Some people don't read and participate on ts.com via a web browser when using their smartphones, but, rather, rely on an app called Tapatalk (https://www.tapatalk.com) to do so.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on November 01, 2019, 10:27:34 AM
Seems i find a firmware bug, or my device is broken. Can someone check if same problem exists on first generation of MixPre-3?
It seems something wrong with headphones output or some kind of internal routing headphone levels problem. Here is example:

If i connect MixPre-3II as USB audio device to listen music from computer and monitor with MixPre-3II Headphones-out, (headphones volume set to 75) it produce a lot of background distortions. No red clipping indicator in the corner.

Here is a sample test file with deep bass to playback: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1e0mk5fkqumhh63/SystemLog-Off.wav?dl=0

 I record a video to better illustrate this problem. Headphones placed very close to smartphone microphone, so in the end you can hear those actual noisy distortion clicks. Take a look https://www.dropbox.com/s/ywb2xfquhs6wvay/IMG_7665.mp4?dl=0

P.S.
I got same results if i upload file to SD card and playback directly fromMixPre-3II file system.
I can hear distortion with large headphones if i increase headphones volume to 56 and higher.
I can hear distortion with small plugs headphones if i increase headphones volume to 36 and higher.

UPDATE.1 Final respond from tech support - it is most likely hardware problem with my unit. So i need to send it back for exchange.
UPDATE 29.11.2019. Replaced item arrived and it have the same problem. So it looks like some global headphones preamp hardware or firmware problem for me.

Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on November 01, 2019, 02:01:59 PM
Tapatalk automatically adds an annoying signature!  Easy to turn off but most users don't realize it.

Gordon, I’ve looked on the Tapatalk settings on the iPhone but I can’t see anything related to the default signature.  Hint?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on November 01, 2019, 02:06:21 PM

Gordon, I’ve looked on the Tapatalk settings on the iPhone but I can’t see anything related to the default signature.  Hint?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Look at: Tapatalk > Settings > Signature
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on November 01, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
I’m on an iPhone on the free version. I don’t have a Tapatalk Settings or Signature menu.  Sorry if it irritates some folks.  The FAQ implies the signature can be turned on from a paid subscription:


“How do I get rid of the popup and/or smart app banner that appears on my site after I installed Tapatalk?
You can disable the popup by logging in to the Tapatalk Site Owner Console. However, to disable Smart App Banner, it is part of the Basic Paid Tier at $5/month that also includes removal of post signature and other branding control.
Tapatalk is free but we do charge a small fee to make this service sustainable.”

I do occasionally use the desktop to access forums via a web browser, but the convenience of working from the smartphone means 99% if my forum activity is via the phone and Tapatalk.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: vanark on November 01, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
I’m on an iPhone on the free version. I don’t have a Tapatalk Settings or Signature menu.  Sorry if it irritates some folks.  The FAQ implies the signature can be turned on from a paid subscription:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How can an app not have settings? Could you possibly not be looking in the correct place?

From my Android version:
Open Tapatalk (The app, not the specific link to this forum. You won't see it if you do that.)
Click on your Profile icon (silhouette of a person, last icon in the row across the top)
Click on Settings (third option down, between My Account and Contact Us)
Click on Signature (third option down, below Subrscriptions)
Click on the slider to turn off your signature.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on November 01, 2019, 04:24:34 PM
Oh my!  Can’t believe I haven’t used that part of the interface.  I was just focussed on the controls that are open to iOS in its Settings for the app.  Thanks for that help.   Signature has been deselected!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on November 05, 2019, 09:21:34 PM

  Sorry if it irritates some folks.  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Apology accepted!

Oh my!  Can’t believe I haven’t used that part of the interface.  I was just focussed on the controls that are open to iOS in its Settings for the app.  Thanks for that help.   Signature has been deselected!

Gads, I dig this place. Thanks, folks!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rigpimp on November 26, 2019, 12:54:23 PM
https://www.sounddevices.com/download/

MixPre Series v5.00 (MixPre-3, -6, -10T, -3M, -6M, -10M, -3 II, -6 II, and -10 II)

Release: November 26, 2019

New


Fixed


Wingman v5.00

Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on November 27, 2019, 01:08:25 AM
Reading more about the MixAssist, I’m wondering if this is really helpful for my narrative film.  In that situation, I can have a boom mic, a lavaliere, two voice mics being recorded in the MixPre plus the 2 Mix tracks.  The MixAssist only affects the Mix tracks, not the isolated tracks. 

I’d love people with a lot more experience than I to offer their opinion about the pros and cons of using the MixAssist when I had planned to do my own mix in post from the isolated tracks.  Should I rely on the Mix tracks with the MixAssist or stay the course and work with my ISOs?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Ronmac on November 27, 2019, 04:41:48 PM
^^^

Mix assist won’t be that helpful if you are self producing and doing your own post work,IMO.

It is a great feature if you need to mix several tracks while you record and then pass a mixed file immediately to a client or producer.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on November 27, 2019, 08:07:21 PM
Thanks for the advice. 
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: borjam on November 28, 2019, 03:15:29 AM
^^^

Mix assist won’t be that helpful if you are self producing and doing your own post work,IMO.

It is a great feature if you need to mix several tracks while you record and then pass a mixed file immediately to a client or producer.
For example for live streaming work (interviews, etc).
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on November 28, 2019, 08:43:40 AM
A new version of the firmware (5.01) with a couple of bug fixes...

Quote from: Sound Devices
MixPre Series v5.01 (MixPre-3, -6, -10T, -3M, -6M, -10M, -3 II, -6 II, and -10 II)
Release: November 27, 2019

Fixed
  • Sound Reports are now available on original MixPre-3 and MixPre-6.
  • USB Output routing matrix no longer links Track L with channels 1-10 on MixPre-10T and MixPre-10 II.
   
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on November 28, 2019, 02:21:45 PM
A new version of the firmware (5.01) with a couple of bug fixes...
because .... of COURSE it's not a great idea to install .00 firmware...
(says the guy on 2.21 or something)
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: ero3030 on December 01, 2019, 07:38:04 PM
With all this firmware talk, I decided to check mine as I never had issues and really just not thinking about it. Its the 2.21 V. I've been using it ton,  basic line in without incident.   Should I update to the newest?  Thanks for any info,   ed
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on December 01, 2019, 08:27:51 PM
With all this firmware talk, I decided to check mine as I never had issues and really just not thinking about it.  I've been using it in basic line in.  Should I update to the newest?  Thanks for any info,   ed

if it aint broke....

3.02 was the most stable when i was testing cards, but i havent tried 5.xx
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on December 01, 2019, 08:50:41 PM
Has anyone used the Korg nanoKONTROL2 USB MIDI Controller with a MixPre recorder?

I only want it for the transport controls because I can’t stand using the headphone volume knob for fast forward/rewind/scrubbing.

I wish Sound Devices would put those controls on the Wingman app.

**I'll answer my own question: I bought the nanoKontrol2 and it does replace the headphone knob encoder for FF and RW. But you need the nanoKontrol Studio model with the jog wheel in order to do scrubbing.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on December 21, 2019, 05:18:46 PM
if it aint broke....
I have upgraded to 5.01 and the new Wingman 5.02. more details later
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on December 23, 2019, 03:52:14 AM
if it aint broke....
I have upgraded to 5.01 and the new Wingman 5.02. more details later
I had a card speed error with the Sound Devices 32GB card on v2.21
recording 6 channels at 24/48 and didn't shut the machine off at set break. Almost precisely 2GB into the second file the machine threw an error. I had a towel over the back of the deck, and it was a little warm but not hot.


So far, both of the SD branded cards I have used have suffered a failure. I could not find the one I got as a warranty replacement for the first bad one, so I can't test that one out - also I AM NOT A BETA TESTER
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on December 23, 2019, 10:48:17 AM
every sound devices customer is a beta tester, lol
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on December 23, 2019, 04:02:53 PM
every sound devices customer is a beta tester, lol
Yeah Right. See ya on the Zoom thread, I guess?
Seriously, I'll be running the Tascam this weekend. For reliability. Never thought you'd see me say THAT, huh?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: shijan on December 23, 2019, 04:33:50 PM
Sound Devices is rather contradictory company. They provide really best sound quality and great mic preamps, but same time may provide some strange problems with complicated electronics design. Unforgivable for this price range devices. See my earlier posts about headphones-out distortion problem in MixPre3 gen II series. I send my unit back to them and got replacement unit with same problem (huge waste of my time, canceled recordings, and waste of worldwide shipping cost money). We have near 20 messages conversation with tech support, i provide videos, test files and sound examples of that problem. In the end they report that they can replicate same problem on their unit. It means headphones-out distortion problem exists at all gen II series units. I really wonder who no one exsept me don't want to digg into this problem here. Tech support suggest me don't adjust headphones volume too loud. Sounds really funny. Later they respond me that their firmware team is looking to this problem. Last conversation was few weeks ago and this problem still in unknown state. So i agree that it is total dishonest beta testing. Due huge competition with other companies and not too enough time for developers and manufacturers we got non finished and non tested products that could be fixed (or not fixed) during firmware updates over next year(s).
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on December 23, 2019, 08:06:34 PM
every sound devices customer is a beta tester, lol
Yeah Right. See ya on the Zoom thread, I guess?
Seriously, I'll be running the Tascam this weekend. For reliability. Never thought you'd see me say THAT, huh?

yeah ricky has my F6 i havent laid my hands on it yet

re: your mixpre, id use the sandisk pro 32gb with 3.02 firmware should be flawless
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Niels on December 24, 2019, 12:26:25 PM
Can anyone give me a guesstimate re. how long I can record 2 channels w. phantom utilising enelope pros in a 8 battery sled (MX-8AA)?

I am considering a MixPre 3, but not if I have to sacrifice compactness with the L mount sled or add complexity with external usb batteries.

thanks.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: prepschoolalumniblues on December 24, 2019, 03:12:56 PM
I usually run off an external Anker USB-C Powercore battery (it’s tiny!) but I forgot it at a recent Marco Benevento show and had to use my backup AAs. I think I got around 100 minutes running two channels of P48... which unfortunately was about ten minutes before the end of the show. If it had been two sets I could have easily swapped batteries without a problem but unfortunately it was one marathon set. To the MixPre-3’s credit, it saved the recording in progress when it shut down. However, I think this all goes to show that powering just off AAs is risky given how power-hungry it is — definitely consider the Anker route.


Can anyone give me a guesstimate re. how long I can record 2 channels w. phantom utilising enelope pros in a 8 battery sled (MX-8AA)?

I am considering a MixPre 3, but not if I have to sacrifice compactness with the L mount sled or add complexity with external usb batteries.

thanks.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on December 24, 2019, 03:48:00 PM
Can anyone give me a guesstimate re. how long I can record 2 channels w. phantom utilising enelope pros in a 8 battery sled (MX-8AA)?

I am considering a MixPre 3, but not if I have to sacrifice compactness with the L mount sled or add complexity with external usb batteries.

thanks.

I ran my MixPre 6 with 8 ENELOOP PRO AA's in a MX-8AA while recording 2 channels with phantom at 24/192 for 5 hours 8 minutes.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on December 24, 2019, 03:59:42 PM
2 channels with phantom at 24/192 for 5 hours 8 minutes.
around 100 minutes running two channels of P48

it depends on how "power hungry" the mics are, as well as the battery type and number. Dogmusic ran the 8x AA sled, Prepschoolalbl didn't specify 4 or 8?
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dogmusic on December 24, 2019, 04:49:41 PM
2 channels with phantom at 24/192 for 5 hours 8 minutes.
around 100 minutes running two channels of P48

it depends on how "power hungry" the mics are, as well as the battery type and number. Dogmusic ran the 8x AA sled, Prepschoolalbl didn't specify 4 or 8?


My mics were AT4022’s. Tech sheet says: “48V DC, 3.0 mA typical”.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: prepschoolalumniblues on December 24, 2019, 05:02:37 PM
Oops — I was actually just using 4 AAs. Sorry I missed that. Hope some additional anecdata might still be helpful to someone.

These were Studio Projects C4s.

2 channels with phantom at 24/192 for 5 hours 8 minutes.
around 100 minutes running two channels of P48

it depends on how "power hungry" the mics are, as well as the battery type and number. Dogmusic ran the 8x AA sled, Prepschoolalbl didn't specify 4 or 8?

Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on December 24, 2019, 05:10:08 PM
I ran my MixPre 6 with 8 ENELOOP PRO AA's in a MX-8AA while recording 2 channels with phantom at 24/192 for 5 hours 8 minutes.

That's pretty much in line with my experience. I have never run them all the way down, but with 8 Eneloop Pros powering a pair of DPA 4015Cs (2.8 mA) at 24/48, I have recorded 3 hours and 40 minutes or so and still had half of the battery indicator lit. I would guess somewhat better than 5 hours total. I have recorded many shows this way, incidentally, but since I got an Anker USB-C battery, I use the Eneloops as a backup to the Anker.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on December 24, 2019, 11:15:39 PM
Oops — I was actually just using 4 AAs. Sorry I missed that. Hope some additional anecdata might still be helpful to someone.

These were Studio Projects C4s.


all other things being equal, 8 batteries will run for more than twice as long as 4 batteries due to maintaining higher voltage
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Niels on December 25, 2019, 04:07:49 AM
Thats cool - thanks all!
I was hoping to hear that 8 AAs would be able to provide a comfortable 3 hours, which seems to be the case.
I prefer a self-contained unit, as I tend to make mistakes when too many cables, cords and connections are in play - as simple as possible for me.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: morst on December 25, 2019, 08:09:20 AM
Thats cool - thanks all!
I was hoping to hear that 8 AAs would be able to provide a comfortable 3 hours, which seems to be the case.
I prefer a self-contained unit, as I tend to make mistakes when too many cables, cords and connections are in play - as simple as possible for me.
I love my Anker USB-C pack, but you DO have to push the button to turn it on. I looked at my machine the other day and it said something like "INTERNAL BATTERIES LOW!" so I hit the button on the Anker pack to make it power up, and all was well. Later when I checked the voltage on those alkalines, they were at 1.42 volts each.

Incidentally, this was the same power cycle when I got the card speed error. Doubt it's connected but EVIDENTLY WE ARE ALL BETA TESTERS at our own expense.
Thanks, SD.
 :-X
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: aaronji on December 25, 2019, 05:49:21 PM
I love my Anker USB-C pack, but you DO have to push the button to turn it on.

I have been using the Anker PowerCore 10000 PD with my MixPre. One nice feature of this battery is that it automatically turns on when the recorder is powered up (that’s true regardless of whether you plug it in before or after turning on the SD). Obviously, it has a much smaller capacity than the Ankers recommended by SD, but it is also considerably smaller and lighter.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on December 25, 2019, 06:18:40 PM
Thats cool - thanks all!
I was hoping to hear that 8 AAs would be able to provide a comfortable 3 hours, which seems to be the case.
I prefer a self-contained unit, as I tend to make mistakes when too many cables, cords and connections are in play - as simple as possible for me.
The foolproof method is an eight AA pack loaded with fresh NIMH and a 10,000 Milliamp external usb-c. even if your usb-c gets unplugged it switches seamlessly to AAs

alkaline are really not suitable except in an emergency
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: relefunt on December 25, 2019, 09:38:47 PM
I usually run off an external Anker USB-C Powercore battery (it’s tiny!) but I forgot it at a recent Marco Benevento show and had to use my backup AAs. I think I got around 100 minutes running two channels of P48... which unfortunately was about ten minutes before the end of the show. If it had been two sets I could have easily swapped batteries without a problem but unfortunately it was one marathon set. To the MixPre-3’s credit, it saved the recording in progress when it shut down. However, I think this all goes to show that powering just off AAs is risky given how power-hungry it is — definitely consider the Anker route.


————

Which Anker Powercore battery is tiny? Mine is kind of big. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: prepschoolalumniblues on December 26, 2019, 12:09:49 AM
Anker PowerCore 10000 PD... “tiny” is a slight exaggeration, but it’s a ton of juice in a package that’s smaller than my phone in both length and width... I’ve used bigger batteries in the past and this one is somehow both smaller and more powerful. I charge it with the Scosche HPDC8C8 Powervolt 36W and an Anker cord. For some reason my Anker plug didn’t charge the PowerCore. These were all Wirecutter recommendations by the way — a great site to check out.


I usually run off an external Anker USB-C Powercore battery (it’s tiny!) but I forgot it at a recent Marco Benevento show and had to use my backup AAs. I think I got around 100 minutes running two channels of P48... which unfortunately was about ten minutes before the end of the show. If it had been two sets I could have easily swapped batteries without a problem but unfortunately it was one marathon set. To the MixPre-3’s credit, it saved the recording in progress when it shut down. However, I think this all goes to show that powering just off AAs is risky given how power-hungry it is — definitely consider the Anker route.


————

Which Anker Powercore battery is tiny? Mine is kind of big. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: Chomps on January 17, 2020, 10:45:51 AM
Any Gefell users run actives via PFA with the 10II?

I'm looking to hear samples as I an considering making the change to the Mix Pre.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: DavidPuddy on January 17, 2020, 11:00:17 AM
Any Gefell users run actives via PFA with the 10II?

I'm looking to hear samples as I an considering making the change to the Mix Pre.

Thanks!


I think Gordon runs them with the MP6ii
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: noahbickart on January 18, 2020, 10:56:20 PM
I've finally upgraded the firmware to v5.01 from v2.21. (I never use a .0, like the new v6.0 unless it's confirmed stable).

I think the only change I'd possibly use would be pre-roll. Any advice on that?
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on January 18, 2020, 11:20:59 PM
The MixPre firmware now supports pre-roll from 5 to 10 seconds; not sure if that is restricted to the generation II and the higher frame rates have the shorter duration as I recall.  Latest version 6.0.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on January 19, 2020, 12:40:53 AM
preroll started in 3.0x i believe, and apparently caused bugs in its first iteration. long since resolved
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on January 21, 2020, 02:12:43 PM
I finally did a test with a single clip over two hours long.  I jammed the MixPre-6 II from a Tentacle Sync and then attached that Tentacle to my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K to force the camera to use external  Timecode.

There was no dropped frame or drift within a frame!  Good news.

I suspected that Difference of a frame that would show up on the MixPre Jam panel was bogus from something I observed.  If I jammed the MixPre just removing the Tentacle would cause the one frame difference. But plugging the Tentacle back into Aux1, the Difference immediately went to zero without jamming again. Unplugging and replugging without physically jamming again repeatedly caused the one frame issue to appear and disappear.  But it’s only a display issue, the actual Timecode recorded is solid.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: jerryfreak on January 21, 2020, 04:23:56 PM
im still at a loss for the practical use of TC for multitrack audio purposes.

please correct me if im wrong, but from what i understand after a lot of reading and a little bit of use, timecode does absolutely nothing to lock two audio signals together at the sample clock level

basically it allows start-time metadata  ( from a resettable and sync-able internal clock) to be stamped into the file for use later.

practical use is synching a large number of audio and video files at the frame level.

since most TC signals use something around 30 fps, were talking about 33ms when off by one frame. apparently multichannel audio will start to have audible effects in the 10-20ms range

hardwired TC solutions seem more solid than "jamming" which is basically sybching two clocks and then letting them free-run after that

none of the sonic foundry audio software i was using would even read TC, i just started playing with adobe audition which apparently does, but i havent messed with that yet.

for our typical use (long files of similar length), synching the beginnings up visually in a multitrack wave editor, and stretching/shrinking as needed to make the end match

which is a compromise relative to either running multiple ADs from the same word clock, or using a multitrack recorder with single clock.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on January 21, 2020, 05:37:41 PM
I’m far from an expert, but I’ve been told the Timecode used for audio purposes such as word clock (not cinema) is different than the SMPTE LTC.  The Allen and Heath soundboard maintains an audio Timecode for live broadcast to ensure all audio channels are in sync.  I manually synced the audio I received from the Dante 64x64 interface to the soundboard.  Because all the audio channels were the same timing, it was easy to sync visually to my video scratch audio and ambient channel in Resolve.

The Tentacle Sync is providing SMPTE Timecode to ensure audio will sync to video in post processing.  It shouldn’t require any tweaking I’d everything works according to LTC Timecode which was what I found yesterday testing the reliability of the audio recorded by the MixPre-6 II after being jammed and synced with my camera video and embedded audio taking its click from the Tentacle.
Title: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: rick.lang on January 21, 2020, 07:05:08 PM

Problem resolved with a workaround.  If the vaunted Resolve auto sync only syncs one audio file to one video clip, I cut my video clip using Mark In and Out to create two video clios in the Media pool based on the duration of the first audio clip.  Now auto sync worked with both audio clips, one for each video clip. 

I need to remember anytime MixPre creates an extended file, that I must cut that video to match the extensions (or learn how to rejoin the extensions into one file while retaining Timecode, which would be better)!
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: justme on January 22, 2020, 01:25:56 AM
Time code is positional reference only.
Word clock manages stability as speed and velocity.
Title: Re: Sound Devices MixPre-3 and 6, Part 6
Post by: dallman on January 22, 2020, 12:34:54 PM
I've finally upgraded the firmware to v5.01 from v2.21. (I never use a .0, like the new v6.0 unless it's confirmed stable).

I think the only change I'd possibly use would be pre-roll. Any advice on that?

FWIW I have run 6.0 on a mixpre6 MKII for 3 shows, 6 mics, 32/48 with no issues. Smooth as silk.

In another discovery that probably could use some more testing, I have pre-roll at 8 seconds (I believe). It is very stable now. In experimenting, if I accidentally hit "stop" while recording, pre-roll kicks in so if I hit "record" within 8 seconds I do not lose any of my recording. Is this bit perfect? I have no idea, but even if I lose a few microseconds, it's better than losing a few seconds of a recording. It is rare that I would (especially now) ever hit the wrong button again, but I discovered this by accident when I wanted to hit the "*" button, but hit "stop" instead. I quickly hit record and didn't lose anything thanks to pre-roll immediately kicking in when I hit "stop"..