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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: dwissl on October 02, 2007, 10:30:21 PM

Title: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: dwissl on October 02, 2007, 10:30:21 PM
Has digi-in and digi-out, but no XLR input.
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=0&p=10&sp=83&id=90227
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: NOLAfishwater on October 02, 2007, 10:44:34 PM
Quote
Additionally, the D50 offers compadible mounting and use with the recently introduced XLR-1 wide-bandwidth balanced XLR microphone adapter.


I wonder what that is?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Kindguy on October 02, 2007, 10:49:31 PM
Quote
Additionally, the D50 offers compadible mounting and use with the recently introduced XLR-1 wide-bandwidth balanced XLR microphone adapter.


I wonder what that is?

I knew Sony couldn't make a recorder without some kind of > adapter.  ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: drewloo on October 02, 2007, 10:53:01 PM
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=0&p=10&sp=83&id=89166

looks like just a phantom power supply w/ a 1/8 analog out.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/drewloo/xlr1_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: eclark on October 02, 2007, 11:33:08 PM
how about those internal mics! 90 and 120 degrees!! that thing looks schweet  ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on October 02, 2007, 11:42:38 PM
Has digi-in and digi-out, but no XLR input.
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=0&p=10&sp=83&id=90227

This thing could be a winner...

It's got a list price of $599, so hopefully street price will be around $400 (optimistic?).

It's essentially got all of the features of the R-09 w/the addition of the optical input
Another positive is that the A>D is probably pretty good considering the fact that it incorporates Sony's SBM.

This looks good too:

Quote
* Superior Audio Signal Path

   The PCM-D50 is designed with four separate circuit boards to separate analog audio, digital audio, digital recording and power supply circuits. Separate circuit boards for each function helps minimize noise.

A negative is that it doesn't take compact flash or secure digital...makes sense since it is Sony.
The 4GB built in should do it for a lot of folks though.

If this thing is solid it could be the affordable bit-bucket people have been waiting for...and for someone like me who doesn't have an external A>D, it could possibly replace my R-09.  I'm sure it will appeal to a lot of ENG people too.

Even if you don't care for the built-in mics, the rest of the features look pretty good!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: yug du nord on October 03, 2007, 12:00:52 AM
Check out the PCM-D1...  it's been out quite a while.  At least a year or more!  Has an optical output.  NO digi-in, no XLR's ...  but some sweet meters!!!  Beyond that, I think they're pretty much the same.  Would that phantom power box (XLR-1) be worth the $500 listed price?

Sony PCM-D1:
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=10013&id=82662

(http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/images/product/front_zoom/pcmd1_z.jpg)

:edit for pic
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: yug du nord on October 03, 2007, 12:05:29 AM

A negative is that it doesn't take compact flash or secure digital...makes sense since it is Sony.
The 4GB built in should do it for a lot of folks though.

 ::) You can use a Memory Stick also!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on October 03, 2007, 12:26:30 AM
Check out the PCM-D1...  it's been out quite a while.  At least a year or more!  Has an optical output.  NO digi-in, no XLR's ...  but some sweet meters!!!  Beyond that, I think they're pretty much the same.  Would that phantom power box (XLR-1) be worth the $500 listed price?


PCM-D1 list price: $1995
PCM-D50 list price: $599

That's the biggest difference!   :P

That XLR-1 price is rediculous, IMO. 

Dimensions:
2 7/8" x 6 1/8" x 1 5/16" (w x h x d) not including projecting parts and controls
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B) on October 03, 2007, 12:28:34 AM
What is the size of this (PCM-D50) compared to something like a MicroTrack or R-09? Just curious. It looks fairly large.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: yug du nord on October 03, 2007, 12:51:06 AM
What is the size of this (PCM-D50) compared to something like a MicroTrack or R-09? Just curious. It looks fairly large.

I'd guess... close to a MT, but longer.  Especially with those mics!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Ozpeter on October 03, 2007, 03:51:58 AM
I suppose Sony know what they are doing, but having those big metal bars across the front of the mics makes one wonder about the effect on the incoming sound.  And the whole business of leftward-facing mics to the right of the rightward facing mics has been discussed before, so I shall make no comment!  Still, it certainly looks like there will be no RH-2....
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on October 03, 2007, 04:52:20 AM
There is a 3 hour and 55 min recording limit in 24/48 and a 1 hour 55min limit at 24/96!

Never ever a perfect world....is it?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on October 03, 2007, 05:21:12 AM
   * Versatile Recording Functions

   The PCM-D50 offers comprehensive signal processing features for location recording including a unique dual digital limiter function (inherited from the PCM-D1 recorder), a high pass filter with selectable frequencies (150 Hz or 75 Hz) and SBM (Super Bit Mapping) noise shaping. In addition, the PCM-D50 includes a 5 second pre record buffer with an A-B repeat playback function.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: flintstone on October 03, 2007, 07:51:13 AM
"There is a 3 hour and 55 min recording limit in 24/48..."

That's because the maximum file size is 2GB, like most recorders.  The D50 will automatically start a new file when that limit is reached.  No word from Sony if the split is seamless.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Rick on October 03, 2007, 08:36:23 AM
Why don't they hack of the mics and drop the price a $100  >:(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: danlynch on October 03, 2007, 08:45:04 AM
"There is a 3 hour and 55 min recording limit in 24/48..."

That's because the maximum file size is 2GB, like most recorders.  The D50 will automatically start a new file when that limit is reached.  No word from Sony if the split is seamless.

At 24/48 the recording time is 1:54 at the 2GB limit on any recorder.   The fact that they're giving the 4GB time limit leads me to believe there is no "2GB problem".  We shall see.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 03, 2007, 09:11:26 AM
"There is a 3 hour and 55 min recording limit in 24/48..."

That's because the maximum file size is 2GB, like most recorders.  The D50 will automatically start a new file when that limit is reached.  No word from Sony if the split is seamless.

At 24/48 the recording time is 1:54 at the 2GB limit on any recorder.   The fact that they're giving the 4GB time limit leads me to believe there is no "2GB problem".  We shall see.



This looks like a D1, without the meters, a bit smaller and lighter, with digi-in, for 1/3 the price.  If it has the same A/D and preamp as the D1, it will blow away the other small machines.  And, yes, the split at 2GB will be seamless (if it is like the D1).  The switch from internal flash to memory stick on the D1 required a menu action, so that took a few seconds to accomplish, and normal 8GB memory stick pro duo did not work in the D1 (well, it recorded as if less than 4GB was available, though 4GB normal memory stick and duo worked fine, and though they said you needed "high speed" versions with the racing stripes.  There is no "high speed" 8GB yet.).  I hope to get a look at this at the NY AES this weekend.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: TNJazz on October 03, 2007, 09:38:39 AM
"There is a 3 hour and 55 min recording limit in 24/48..."

That's because the maximum file size is 2GB, like most recorders.  The D50 will automatically start a new file when that limit is reached.  No word from Sony if the split is seamless.

At 24/48 the recording time is 1:54 at the 2GB limit on any recorder.   The fact that they're giving the 4GB time limit leads me to believe there is no "2GB problem".  We shall see.



It might be a "dual mono" situation, where each channel at 24 bit has a maximum filesize of 2gb (which is just under 4 hours).  I think the "2GB problem" still applies - they're just handling the files differently.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: cleantone on October 03, 2007, 11:23:47 AM
Quote
Why don't they hack of the mics and drop the price a $100

Absolutely. It might be cool to have those mics for speech or something non musical. I wouldn't mind a cheap but good two track bit bucket. One that wont explode on me and is reliable. I don't have a good two track rig right now. I would love to be able to bring mics, a stand, my V3 and a bucket to some shows. Not to mention an easy patch machine for when I don't want to tape but wouldn't mind a patch. This is looking like a decent deal though. 8gb might be sweeter of course.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: kskreider on October 03, 2007, 11:41:46 AM
I wonder if it would VOID my warranty if I used a hacksaw to chop off those fugly protruding mics and their roll cage.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: flintstone on October 03, 2007, 12:15:57 PM
"Why don't they hack of the mics and drop the price $100"

This makes sense to me, but I think Sony won't consider this
until they finally give up on the Hi-MD minidisc recorder for USA.
The SonyStyle web site doesn't display the minidisc machines
any longer, but Sony's pro web site (Broadcast and Business
Solutions) contines to offer the MZ-M200.  At $440, it's BBSC's
cheapest "hi-fi" recorder.

It took Sony 2 years to remove the VU-meters from the PCM-D1.
Maybe we'll see a D50 without mics in Fall, 2009.

Flintstone
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mandoman on October 03, 2007, 12:37:36 PM
I've heard the PCM-D1's built in mics yield steller results - they'll
essentially blow away r09's. I wonder if they are the exact same ones
on the pcm-d50?

Another feature of the D1 is it's built out of Titanium - it's a really rugged
unit forsure. Wonder if that is carried over on the pcm-d50?

I say instead of removing the built in mics and lowering the price $100,
replace the built in mics with onboard xlr connectors and give it a high
end preamp and keep the price the same.

Yeah, digi-in! I wonder if it's 'crippled' though like their md players? Transfers with
!@#$% SonicStage blows chunks!

The pcm-d1 was ridiculously over priced IMHO. The d50 seems much
more reasonably priced. I'm guessing they are able to lower the price
on the newer one because they've covered most of the R&D cost with the d1.

This could be a killer unit...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Unitmonster on October 03, 2007, 01:13:51 PM
interesting indeed.  Will follow this development.  as someone who does interviewing on a semi-regular basis, it could be a logical multi-purpose tool.  Also, not bad for throwing down on a table at a jazz show when you don't feel like bringing a full rig along.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Kindguy on October 03, 2007, 01:46:23 PM
Curious how you would run Optical in without an outboard AD?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: JasonSobel on October 03, 2007, 02:02:00 PM
Curious how you would run Optical in without an outboard AD?

you wouldn't.  as with all S/PDIF inputs, you'd need to do the A/D conversion elsewhere.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: tcf on October 03, 2007, 02:31:34 PM
looks like there is a 6'wired remote and a dead rats wind screen available as extras.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on October 03, 2007, 02:46:36 PM
Looks interesting...  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on October 03, 2007, 02:57:30 PM
looks like there is a 6'wired remote and a dead rats wind screen available as extras.

Anyone know the what the buttons are on the remote? I guess one of them is a REC.

Looks interesting... shame about the mics...don't think anyone here will use them. They could have made it detachable like the MT or the MR-1.

Seems Marantz is in the competition, too with their new portable Marantz PMD620....Don't know if that has digital in - anyone know?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: bugg100 on October 03, 2007, 03:44:22 PM
Why don't they hack of the mics and drop the price a $100  >:(

That would make this box less interesting to the ENG/reporter crowd.  Why would Sony want to do that?

On the other hand, I would like to see someone finally get onboard mics RIGHT for once.  Looks like a step in the right direction with the adjustable angle.......  Heres for hoping!

Joe
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on October 03, 2007, 03:54:53 PM


That would make this box less interesting to the ENG/reporter crowd.  Why would Sony want to do that?


It will satisfy everyone if the mics were detachable (like the MR-1 and MT). And also maybe even better to make it as a $100 accessory. Why would Sony not want to do that?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 03, 2007, 04:00:43 PM
Looking at the online manuel, it gets excellent battery life.  They claim 20 hours at 24/96 without monitoring, the D1 got maybe 6 hours at best.  A useable 8 GB memory stick would make this a killer.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: danlynch on October 03, 2007, 04:42:28 PM
looks like there is a 6'wired remote and a dead rats wind screen available as extras.

Anyone know the what the buttons are on the remote? I guess one of them is a REC.

Looks interesting... shame about the mics...don't think anyone here will use them. They could have made it detachable like the MT or the MR-1.

Seems Marantz is in the competition, too with their new portable Marantz PMD620....Don't know if that has digital in - anyone know?

From the preliminary spex, it would appear that the PMD 620 does not have any digital in.

This item, the Sony PCM-D50 seems to only have an optical in, which kind of sucks for us Mini-Me owners. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: yug du nord on October 03, 2007, 06:53:57 PM
Curious how you would run Optical in without an outboard AD?

you wouldn't.  as with all S/PDIF inputs, you'd need to do the A/D conversion elsewhere.

I may be wrong... but I would imagine that it has an internal A/D.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on October 03, 2007, 07:30:46 PM
I think what we are starting to see is the next generation of improved all-in-one recorders.  Generally these all-in-ones with the mics are definitely are targeted to a ENG user, BUT SONY gave a little nod to the field recorder with the digi-in, let's hope that they follow thru.  I don't mind the built in mics, they are handy, like others have said, if the need arises to plop it down on a table or pull the old "Statue of Liberty" to capture an event.  Maybe if they made that a modular component, then it would be a killer (not to mention a SONY specialty item, which they love to market with their products).

I want to see some metering for the remote and some transport controls, any photos of the said "Remote Commander" remote?  When paired with a Lemosax or vms02ib, this will be a Schoeps st**thers dream machine .

I actually am glad that SONY is leading the wave on the next gen.  We would have been nowhere without them in the 90's, 80's and 70's.  They always had affordable and highly functional recorders.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: JasonSobel on October 03, 2007, 09:10:11 PM
Curious how you would run Optical in without an outboard AD?

you wouldn't.  as with all S/PDIF inputs, you'd need to do the A/D conversion elsewhere.

I may be wrong... but I would imagine that it has an internal A/D.

I'm sure this new Sony deck has an internal A/D.  and if it sounds anything like their PCM-D1 recorder, it'll sound very nice.  but his question was about about using the optical input.  By definition, the optical input is an S/PDIF input.  if you are already sending the deck an S/PDIF signal, then you need to do the A/D conversion somewhere else.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on October 03, 2007, 10:12:44 PM
Did the D1 use the "super-bit-mapping", SBM, in its A>D?

Because this is what the D50 specs say it uses.

As far as those little mics, what really would have been killer is if they were detachable, then revealing an XLR jack!  We use some AKG panel mics that are about the size of the mics on the D50, and you plug them directly to an XLR...oh well, you can't have everything...yet.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: yug du nord on October 03, 2007, 10:58:21 PM
Curious how you would run Optical in without an outboard AD?

you wouldn't.  as with all S/PDIF inputs, you'd need to do the A/D conversion elsewhere.

I may be wrong... but I would imagine that it has an internal A/D.


I'm sure this new Sony deck has an internal A/D.  and if it sounds anything like their PCM-D1 recorder, it'll sound very nice.  but his question was about about using the optical input.  By definition, the optical input is an S/PDIF input.  if you are already sending the deck an S/PDIF signal, then you need to do the A/D conversion somewhere else.

Ahhh......  got ya!!! 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on October 04, 2007, 12:36:56 AM
I'm sure this new Sony deck has an internal A/D.  and if it sounds anything like their PCM-D1 recorder, it'll sound very nice.  but his question was about about using the optical input.  By definition, the optical input is an S/PDIF input.  if you are already sending the deck an S/PDIF signal, then you need to do the A/D conversion somewhere else.

Can you make a fair assesment on how that A>D sounds versus the other 24bit resolution A>Ds?  If it is anything like the previous semi-pro devices, we are in luck.  The M1 and SBM-1 was a mainstay for us and I can see this being the case here too.

Did the D1 use the "super-bit-mapping", SBM, in its A>D?

Because this is what the D50 specs say it uses.

As far as those little mics, what really would have been killer is if they were detachable, then revealing an XLR jack!  We use some AKG panel mics that are about the size of the mics on the D50, and you plug them directly to an XLR...oh well, you can't have everything...yet.

I think the SBM will only be applied for the 16bit WAVs, it is a 24 > 16bit dithering and noise shaping filter.

XLR jacks are basically an impossibility on a device of that size.  Thus you have SONY's clever/stupid marketing in the XLR-1 for your XLR and phantom power needs.  Or you may choose a PS of your choice....without the SONY mark-up.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 04, 2007, 12:47:58 AM
I think the SBM will only be applied for the 16bit WAVs, it is a 24 > 16bit dithering and noise shaping filter.


Correct.  The D1 has this option also, selectable on the menu.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 04, 2007, 12:53:43 AM
Availability?  Distributor estimated three weeks, but this sounds like a guess.  Sound Professionals said they'd have them up for pre-order on their web site tomorrow.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on October 04, 2007, 09:32:24 AM
looks like there is a 6'wired remote and a dead rats wind screen available as extras.

Anyone know the what the buttons are on the remote? I guess one of them is a REC.

Looks interesting... shame about the mics...don't think anyone here will use them. They could have made it detachable like the MT or the MR-1.

Seems Marantz is in the competition, too with their new portable Marantz PMD620....Don't know if that has digital in - anyone know?

From the preliminary spex, it would appear that the PMD 620 does not have any digital in.

This item, the Sony PCM-D50 seems to only have an optical in, which kind of sucks for us Mini-Me owners. 
the manual says it has optical in AND optical out.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: danlynch on October 04, 2007, 01:16:51 PM
looks like there is a 6'wired remote and a dead rats wind screen available as extras.

Anyone know the what the buttons are on the remote? I guess one of them is a REC.

Looks interesting... shame about the mics...don't think anyone here will use them. They could have made it detachable like the MT or the MR-1.

Seems Marantz is in the competition, too with their new portable Marantz PMD620....Don't know if that has digital in - anyone know?

From the preliminary spex, it would appear that the PMD 620 does not have any digital in.

This item, the Sony PCM-D50 seems to only have an optical in, which kind of sucks for us Mini-Me owners. 
the manual says it has optical in AND optical out.

My post was unclear.  The "only" was not about in/out (you are absolutely correct) but that its "only" optical, and not coax.  My reference to the Mini-Me is because its digital out is an s/pdif coax.

Stupid question: is there a coax > optical digital cable?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: JasonSobel on October 04, 2007, 01:21:49 PM

Stupid question: is there a coax > optical digital cable?


no, not just a cable.  there are small portable, battery powered converter boxes, like the Hosa ODL-276.  but not just a simple cable.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: twatts (that "Pants" thing is so lame...) on October 04, 2007, 01:22:45 PM
Stupid question: is there a coax > optical digital cable?


Not that I know of...  I've used a Hosa ODL276 for this conversion.  Its a bit perfect, 9vDC, small box (3"sq.) that should run you about $30...

Terry

PS beat me to it, Jason!

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on October 04, 2007, 01:45:16 PM
nice deck.
way to go Sony.  finally...
I dont care what media it takes.  nor that it offers phantom or balanced input.

any ol' Denecke PS2 or any other outboard phantom w/a little soldering action..and viola, phantom over 3.5mm.

I like it.
Now we are back to only a couple of choices of preamp and / or A/D boxes.
:-/
v3, mm3, mytek.
anything else?  that doesn't have a flash card or hdd in it all ready ?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on October 04, 2007, 01:48:54 PM
I wonder if those capsules could be cut out and ...extended.
 >:D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: danlynch on October 04, 2007, 02:10:23 PM
Thanks and Thanks and +t's for the Hosa info.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mandoman on October 04, 2007, 02:35:23 PM
I wonder if those capsules could be cut out and ...extended.
 >:D

So the capsules look different between the D1 and D50 (D1's are longer).
That's too bad, as I've heard the D1's capsules sound incredible. Here's
hoping the D50 on-board mics sound as good or better.

Believe it or not, Sony can pull off great mics. My friend has a sony high-end single point
stereo mic from 10 years ago (not sure the model, but it was very expensive at the time),
and it is clear, clean, transparant, natural sounding, has a great stereo image, and
could easily go against any of those high-end german mics.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on October 04, 2007, 02:38:27 PM
no doubt.
there are some sony condensers out there as well that are pretty bad ass.

this deck sounds good. the dedicated PCBs for each "layer" of its features, PS, ADC, PRE , LINE
I love it!
mod-o-rama !
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: JasonSobel on October 04, 2007, 04:40:51 PM
v3, mm3, mytek.
:-/
anything else?  that doesn't have a flash card or hdd in it all ready ?

there are still plenty of choices for outboard pre's and/or A/D boxes...

in addition to the V3, MiniMe, Mytek, we've got the V2, AD2k+, Aerco, Sonosax, SD MP-2, m148, m248, beyer mv100, ua-5, church audio pre, Neve Portico, etc, etc.  This is all just off the top of my head.  I'm sure that there are more.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: H₂O on October 04, 2007, 05:10:41 PM
v3, mm3, mytek.
:-/
anything else?  that doesn't have a flash card or hdd in it all ready ?

there are still plenty of choices for outboard pre's and/or A/D boxes...

in addition to the V3, MiniMe, Mytek, we've got the V2, AD2k+, Aerco, Sonosax, SD MP-2, m148, m248, beyer mv100, ua-5, church audio pre, Neve Portico, etc, etc.  This is all just off the top of my head.  I'm sure that there are more.

PSP-2
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on October 04, 2007, 05:18:47 PM
i was thinking digital input only...

after all the B&M we did about a perfect bit bucket...
by the time one comes out, outboard A/Ds are all but passe'
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mandoman on October 04, 2007, 05:39:13 PM
From the manual it appears that computer transfers are simple
usb mass storage compliant. No Sonic Stage! :D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mandoman on October 04, 2007, 06:03:08 PM
As a long time MD user way back when, alls I can say is,
where the hell was this unit 2 years ago when I made the jump to a solid state recorder???

When I went to a microtrack, I really missed all of the onboard editing
features like divide/join/move/rename of tracks. I missed the MD's LONG
battery life. I missed the ruggedness. And more than anything, I missed
the rock solid reliability of MD.

And you know what, it looks like all of those lovely features of MD are on the PCM-D50!

I bet many of the the non-stealth MD users still clinging to their MD's waiting
to jump to solid-state will finally take the plunge with this unit. $599 is still a little high (maybe
not so bad after discount and factoring in 4gig built in memory), but it's clearly
got the goods over the cheaper units if it's anything like the PCM-D1.
This unit could do well!

Welcome back Sony, we've missed you!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: guysonic on October 04, 2007, 06:16:33 PM
Just got quoted ~$490 with late November expected arrival.

Not likely D50 has even close to quality mic pre in D1. 

Specs give NO preamp mic input data, ONLY LINE input-to-line output specs of 93 dB S/N, which seems not so great. but no reference at what output level or if weighted measurements, so too vague to know for certain the meaning of 93 dB.

So far, compact, long 12 hours running time on 4 AA, track mark/split ability, and classy refined easy manual controls is best news. 

Expect the nice attached mics makes this a good 'all-in-one-deck' for on-the-spot good quality recording deck for interview, sound designers, musicians, those tapers looking for a low profile, affordable deck that does at least okay for starters or as a backup unit. 

Definitely good news for those looking for that elusive moderate cost, small size 24/96K 'bit-bucket' alternative to the Microtrack.  :clapping:
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on October 04, 2007, 06:19:08 PM
Does anyone on this board run the D1?  Any samples on LMA or otherwise?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: guysonic on October 04, 2007, 07:24:07 PM
Does anyone on this board run the D1?  Any samples on LMA or otherwise?

A sightless customer who was first to point out excellent preamplifier on D1 deck sent me two interesting great sounding D1 recordings done on an 'outrigger vacation' in the Islands this year.

Mic input using very low output HRTF arrayed mics. 

Both recordings are totally low level ambient sounds while in the small boat, first is 5 min, 12 megs,  but shorter 1.5 min, 3.3 meg second file has a great fireworks finale.

74.208.10.48/mp3/outriger.mp3 (http://74.208.10.48/mp3/outriger.mp3)

74.208.10.48/mp3/boomsfin.mp3 (http://74.208.10.48/mp3/boomsfin.mp3)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on October 06, 2007, 04:46:54 PM
http://www.bradlinder.net/

;)
live from the AES-exhibition.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on October 06, 2007, 05:54:43 PM
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/DisplayModel?m=0&p=10&sp=83&id=89166

looks like just a phantom power supply w/ a 1/8 analog out.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/drewloo/xlr1_z.jpg)

This thing would be the ticket if its paired with the Edirol R09!  Runs on 4 AA batteries.  Tiny too (2.8" x 1.5" x 5.2").

Too bad its over priced at $499.00   :(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on October 06, 2007, 06:01:37 PM
http://www.bradlinder.net/

;)
live from the AES-exhibition.


While doing his first test with the FR-2LE, dude says:

"the gain's not real high when using a dynamic mic...uhhh, there's a little mic trim button here, let's see what happens...oh, whoa ok, that makes a huge difference in terms of the gain...that does increase some of the background noise..."

Wow, what a revelation.  It's like the guy's never used a trim pot before.
 :P

Interesting that he also commented on the Microtrack II in one of his sample clips.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: DSatz on October 06, 2007, 06:16:23 PM
I spent some time at the Sony booth looking at this item, and was given a product flyer which I have scanned and attached to this message. Additionally I tested the "XLR-1" phantom powering adapter with a pair of Schoeps PHS 48 testers, and it passed (i.e. the unit puts out ca. 48 Volts at ca. 4.5 mA on both inputs simultaneously). But with four AAs inside, I don't know for how many hours it can do that.

If I can, on Monday I will go back and ask them about the 93 dB s/n specification. Of course there is really no such thing as an A-weighted signal-to-noise ratio, but the intended meaning is clear enough, and then the thing is, it would kind of seem as if its 24-bit capability would be quite useless. So that calls for some sort of explanation.

--In answer to one person's question way back, the material of the D 50's case is definitely lighter than that of the earlier, much more expensive model.

--best regards
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: bradlinder on October 06, 2007, 06:59:44 PM
http://www.bradlinder.net/

;)
live from the AES-exhibition.


While doing his first test with the FR-2LE, dude says:

"the gain's not real high when using a dynamic mic...uhhh, there's a little mic trim button here, let's see what happens...oh, whoa ok, that makes a huge difference in terms of the gain...that does increase some of the background noise..."

Wow, what a revelation.  It's like the guy's never used a trim pot before.
 :P

Interesting that he also commented on the Microtrack II in one of his sample clips.



Hey, just an update from "the guy." What happened is that I plugged my mic in and started talking as I checked out the options on the recorder. First thing I noticed was that the record level was pretty low, so I started looking for places to crank it up. Normally I would have cut out my own inane jabber before posting the audio online, but I noticed something when listening back to the recording at home. On the show floor you couldn't tell, but with gain turned down, you can hear a bit of a whining noise in the background. When the PCM-D50 was set at a similarly low level, I didn't notice any noise from the recorder which is part of what made me fall in love with the Sony recorder.

As for the Microtrack II, I recorded my Zoom H4 sample after checking out the Digidesign booth. They didn't have a functioning unit on hand, but they gave me some of the details about the new recorder. It'll be out in November, has a full 48V phantom power (unlike the 30V you got with the original Microtrack), is supposed to have better battery life, and includes a new brightness switch on the side of the unit. The Digidesign rep said he thought it would be replacing the original Microtrack and selling for $299, but I'm starting to have my doubts about that, as I haven't seen confirmation of the price anywhere else.

Brad Linder
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on October 06, 2007, 07:12:37 PM
Hey Brad,
Welcome, and sorry for busting your balls a little...all in good spirit!  I know it's not always easy to think of quality things to say when doing tests like that.

Thanks for your reporting from the floor.  It's always great to see first-person experiences with new gear.

Not to get too far off topic, but a couple things pop into my mind after reading your comments.  As a former Fostex FR-2LE owner, I can attest to the "whining" noise you heard when recording your sample.  This is in the noisy headphone amp circuit.  It is definitely not in the resulting recordings though.  I verified this many times just to assure myself.  I found the FR-2LE to be a great sounding box myself.

The MT II looks promising for some appplications...although it's not very encouraging that M-Audio shows up to the AES without a working unit.  That's pretty poor in my opinion...and after their performance with the release of the first MT, I'm sure a lot of people will be pretty skeptical.

All that said, the Sony does still look promising.

Here's your first +T.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: bradlinder on October 07, 2007, 09:43:18 AM
Thanks for the tips on the Fostex. To be honest when I was monitoring my recording live it sounded great. I didn't notice any noise until I got back home and loaded the audio onto my PC. One commenter on my blog tells me that he has similar results with dynamic microphones but that it sounds great with a condenser. It's probably my own fault for not taking another mic with me, but I wanted to test each recorder I found using the same equipment so I grabbed my trusty RE50.

As for the MT II, the guy I spoke with said they had brought a working model, but something had happened to it. I don't know if it was misplaced or broken. But considering the show had just started a few hours ago by the time I found the booth, that wasn't encouraging.

Still, it looks like a step up, and if they can get the price down, it might be a good compact recorder for some folks. It doesn't seem to pack all the features of a Zoom H2/H4 or Edirol R-09, but it's got quarter inch inputs, a tiny size, and feels  pretty sturdy for a plastic device.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mandoman on October 07, 2007, 12:02:06 PM
--In answer to one person's question way back, the material of the D 50's case is definitely lighter than that of the earlier, much more expensive model.

From the product page, the new d50 is made of aluminum while I recall the d1 is made of titanium...

+T
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on October 07, 2007, 12:22:32 PM
Wish the remote commander had meters....
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on October 07, 2007, 03:50:29 PM
I spoke with someone at the Sony booth at the AES show today.  The D50 has been moved forward to early November release.  The bad news is that the chip set is NOT the same as the D1, and the Sony guy admited that the headphone amp and mic pre were not as good as the D1.  The D50 will take 8GB memory stick pro duo "HG" when those are released in about 2-3 months, which will give decent record time at 24/96, and of course battery life will be much improved.  The internal mics are also below the D1 standard (as most people expected).

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on October 07, 2007, 10:12:51 PM
http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/10/comparing-sony-pcm-d50-fostex-fr2-le_06.html
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: rowjimmy on October 08, 2007, 11:53:05 AM
This is def. an exciting but, as usual, not perfect product.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: kskreider on October 08, 2007, 04:43:21 PM
If these are not coming out until November that what is this? (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Sony-PCM-D50-Flash-Recorder-small-version-of-PCMD1_W0QQitemZ150167039710QQihZ005QQcategoryZ41784QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

nvm.  i see that it says pre-order now...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Kindguy on October 09, 2007, 10:49:24 PM
I was quoted 269.00 shipped on the MT2. PM me If anyone cares who it was.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on October 12, 2007, 06:30:14 PM
here a video from the AES showing the PCM-D50:
http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=5390
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on October 23, 2007, 09:52:35 AM
I pre-ordered from Musician's Friend for $499 on the 12 month plan  ;D.  Got an email that this will ship on 13Nov.  As a long time MD and Hi-MD fan, this is what I have been waiting for.  I want the external mics because I like to field record my sons playing tunes or just goofing off from time to time.  Plus, it's great for so many other field recording ops.  The 4Gb internal and the Duo slot offer me plenty and I know the build and quality will be what I have come to love from Sony AND there is no silly Sonic Stage to deal with here.  I have played that game for far too long. 

FWIW: I will be keeping my RH10 for stealth and back-up but I will be offering that RH910 and the wired remote for the RH910 Hi-MD for sale soon, along with a pile of Hi-MDs (some still in package). 

I hope my first run with the PCM-D50  to be the Christmas Jam and then Derek and Susan for NYE at the Fox in Hotlanta.  Should be a good December.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on October 23, 2007, 12:22:40 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on October 23, 2007, 12:37:33 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.

Looking at the  manual  (http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/docs/manuals/pcm-d50.pdf) that I downloaded, the line in looks just like the mini-line inputs that the Hi-MD/MD units have.  It's the all in one type, same for the optical on the line out.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: jlykos on October 23, 2007, 01:10:02 PM
As for the Microtrack II ... They didn't have a functioning unit on hand

The more things change...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: GDfan on October 23, 2007, 01:46:40 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.

looking to replace the edirol ?
:P
did the line in get flaky on you at syracuse?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on October 23, 2007, 01:58:51 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.

looking to replace the edirol ?
:P
did the line in get flaky on you at syracuse?


Nope.  R09 is fine.  It was my cable that was flaky.  This D50 intrigues me because of the ability to run a Denecke AD20 in front of it.  I heart my Aerco, but I also miss the AD20.  Made some really good recordings with that puppy.  Plus, I bet its mini Line-IN is more rugged than the R09's. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: bgalizio on October 23, 2007, 02:23:28 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.

looking to replace the edirol ?
:P
did the line in get flaky on you at syracuse?


Nope.  R09 is fine.  It was my cable that was flaky.  This D50 intrigues me because of the ability to run a Denecke AD20 in front of it.  I heart my Aerco, but I also miss the AD20.  Made some really good recordings with that puppy.  Plus, I bet its mini Line-IN is more rugged than the R09's. 

AD20 over the AERCO? Come on now!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on October 23, 2007, 03:11:07 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.

looking to replace the edirol ?
:P
did the line in get flaky on you at syracuse?


Nope.  R09 is fine.  It was my cable that was flaky.  This D50 intrigues me because of the ability to run a Denecke AD20 in front of it.  I heart my Aerco, but I also miss the AD20.  Made some really good recordings with that puppy.  Plus, I bet its mini Line-IN is more rugged than the R09's. 

AD20 over the AERCO? Come on now!

Two comments, learned from experience:

1. I find the minidisc pres to be better for low noise and/or low output mics, than the R09.  So I'm hoping that the Sony unit has the same or hopefully better pres, and all the benefits of flash.  I could put a pre in front of the R09, but IMO, "less is more" and I fear adding a pre will add distortion, even a little bit.

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on October 23, 2007, 03:14:31 PM
Quote

Two comments, learned from experience:

1. I find the minidisc pres to be better for low noise and/or low output mics, than the R09.  So I'm hoping that the Sony unit has the same or hopefully better pres, and all the benefits of flash.  I could put a pre in front of the R09, but IMO, "less is more" and I fear adding a pre will add distortion, even a little bit.

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard


Are you talking about the circuit inside the R09 or the D50?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on October 23, 2007, 03:15:39 PM
Does anyone know if the D50 has mini Line -In?  Or just optical Line-In?  Or is the Line-In one in the same?  Thanks.

looking to replace the edirol ?
:P
did the line in get flaky on you at syracuse?


Nope.  R09 is fine.  It was my cable that was flaky.  This D50 intrigues me because of the ability to run a Denecke AD20 in front of it.  I heart my Aerco, but I also miss the AD20.  Made some really good recordings with that puppy.  Plus, I bet its mini Line-IN is more rugged than the R09's. 

AD20 over the AERCO? Come on now!

I didn't say that. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on October 23, 2007, 03:17:31 PM

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard


So not true.  AD20 is an amazing little sounding box.  My Rolling Stones - Houston proves your opinion 100% wrong.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on October 23, 2007, 03:19:51 PM
Test, test, test... Is this the PCM-D50 thread or the Aerco vs. AD20 thread?    ???
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on October 23, 2007, 03:20:20 PM

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard


So not true.  AD20 is an amazing little sounding box.  My Rolling Stones - Houston proves your opinion 100% wrong.

OK, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, lol.  All I know is I bought an AD20, listened, was disappointed, and sold the thing within a day or two (at a loss too).  My opinion is that *any* gear can pull a good tape (mics and mic placement make much more difference), but I preferred UA5 (stock), R09, and MD to anything I could get with the AD20.

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on October 23, 2007, 03:26:08 PM
Quote

Two comments, learned from experience:

1. I find the minidisc pres to be better for low noise and/or low output mics, than the R09.  So I'm hoping that the Sony unit has the same or hopefully better pres, and all the benefits of flash.  I could put a pre in front of the R09, but IMO, "less is more" and I fear adding a pre will add distortion, even a little bit.

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard


Are you talking about the circuit inside the R09 or the D50?

I'm talking about the circuit in the AD20.

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on October 23, 2007, 04:25:11 PM
ad20, good little box that i've made more quality recording with than I can count.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: jlykos on October 23, 2007, 04:57:25 PM

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard


So not true.  AD20 is an amazing little sounding box.  My Rolling Stones - Houston proves your opinion 100% wrong.

OK, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, lol.  All I know is I bought an AD20, listened, was disappointed, and sold the thing within a day or two (at a loss too).  My opinion is that *any* gear can pull a good tape (mics and mic placement make much more difference), but I preferred UA5 (stock), R09, and MD to anything I could get with the AD20.

  Richard


I find this absolutely impossible to believe.  This is based on almost two years of my own experience with the AD-20 with a variety of mics (CSB, AKG 391 and Gefell M210) and recorders, including a MiniDisc.  If you only had it for a day, you did not use it enough to adequately hear its capabilities.  I don't mean to bash personal taste in recordings, but you did not give the AD-20 a fair chance.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on October 23, 2007, 05:42:36 PM

2. I've tried the Denecke AD20, and while it has low noise, the audio quality on this thing is poor IMO.  I think the MD pres easily beat it.  I'm tempted to believe that, because this thing was designed for movie work, low noise is important, but music fidelity is not so important.  I've also traced the circuit inside, and I'm not impressed.

  Richard


So not true.  AD20 is an amazing little sounding box.  My Rolling Stones - Houston proves your opinion 100% wrong.

OK, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one, lol.  All I know is I bought an AD20, listened, was disappointed, and sold the thing within a day or two (at a loss too).  My opinion is that *any* gear can pull a good tape (mics and mic placement make much more difference), but I preferred UA5 (stock), R09, and MD to anything I could get with the AD20.

  Richard


I find this absolutely impossible to believe.  This is based on almost two years of my own experience with the AD-20 with a variety of mics (CSB, AKG 391 and Gefell M210) and recorders, including a MiniDisc.  If you only had it for a day, you did not use it enough to adequately hear its capabilities.  I don't mean to bash personal taste in recordings, but you did not give the AD-20 a fair chance.

I wouldn't call anything "impossible".  Well, anything aside from claiming an improvement by putting gold cables on your speakers, lol.

The beautiful thing about taping is we can often get great sounding recordings with less than perfect gear.  Now that we've got lots more retail gear (Edirol, etc), the options are even wider.  As I said earlier, the most important thing (aside from the performance) is getting the mics in the right spot.  After that, almost anything sounds great.

That said, it is still *my* belief that the AD20 is not great.

The real test (see my thread on "transparency") is probably not music, but ambient recordings of familiar events, like visiting with family, eating dinner, whatever.  I've started making a lot of these recordings to compare gear.  Aside from this, I'm keeping important memories.

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: aaronji on October 31, 2007, 09:37:20 AM
Sort of trivial question about the Sony PCM-D50:  is there a key lock switch?  Yes, I am a clutz...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on October 31, 2007, 09:42:18 AM
Yes, I see a HOLD switch in the manual page 14 #10, locks the keys from accidental operation.  I'm with you on the need for that too  :'(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on October 31, 2007, 04:26:01 PM
The best I can tell is November 13th is the shipping date for most retailers.  Anybody know anything different?  That's when my order from Musician's Friend will be shipped.  Looking forward to it with great anticipation.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BayTaynt3d on November 11, 2007, 10:54:14 PM
One thing I'll never understand is how they (manufacturers) consistency market these small recorders as ENG (among other things), but for ENG work, I would think XY (like these sonys) and split omnis (like the R9 I think) and others are the exact wrong mics for the job. If I were using these units for ENG, I'd rather have a highly directional mic out front... Almost like a shotgun/recorder combo unit.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 12, 2007, 07:26:35 AM
sometimes you have more than just a voice to record though...
I think the little array is the excellent.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 13, 2007, 12:26:39 PM
Just got a notice on my backorder from Musician's Friend.  Looks like 27NOV is the date they will be getting the D50.

Hopefully, I get this thing before the Christmas jam...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on November 13, 2007, 02:41:53 PM
I inquired with Full Compass to see when they'd be getting these in...
They told me they are expected to be ready DEC 2007, and was quoted $489.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 13, 2007, 05:12:56 PM
IMO...
expect to not see this anytime in 2007.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on November 15, 2007, 02:37:17 AM
What`s the best deal on the bundle (D50 and XLR-1) around??

Since Sony apparently still hasn`t made up their minds whether or not they`ll offer these machines over here in Europe I`ll get them both from the US (where they`ll also way cheaper even with taxes and postage..for the D1 they charge more in euro than what it costs in the US in $ which is more than 50% plus with the favourable exchange rate these days !!).

Best I could find was some $950 for both (~US 490 for D50 and ~US 450 for XLR-1) on several websites..

http://musical-instruments.pricegrabber.com/studio-recorders/m/51344690/

Thanks!

Karsten

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 15, 2007, 07:15:07 AM
the xlr-1 is a monstrous waste of money.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: aaronji on November 15, 2007, 07:45:00 AM
What`s the best deal on the bundle (D50 and XLR-1) around??

Since Sony apparently still hasn`t made up their minds whether or not they`ll offer these machines over here in Europe I`ll get them both from the US (where they`ll also way cheaper even with taxes and postage..for the D1 they charge more in euro than what it costs in the US in $ which is more than 50% plus with the favourable exchange rate these days !!).

Best I could find was some $950 for both (~US 490 for D50 and ~US 450 for XLR-1) on several websites..

http://musical-instruments.pricegrabber.com/studio-recorders/m/51344690/

Thanks!

Karsten



Have you found companies that will ship to Europe?  A lot of them won't, or bump up the prices.  Also, sometimes you still have to pay the VAT on it...I live in the Netherlands, but still have people I can use as "intermediaries" in the US so let me know if you need a hand!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: boa on November 15, 2007, 07:50:25 AM
Karsten,

If you need me to work with you to get them in the US and then ship them I would be glad to do so, but as Nick said, the price of the XLR-1 adapter is not a good value.

Good to see you again and +T.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: fmaderjr on November 15, 2007, 10:51:05 AM
Is there any chance this might be an acceptable substitute for the XLR-1 at half the price?
http://www.samys.com/product_detail.php?item=3355

I'm guessing there might be an audible difference in quality. Anybody know anything about Beachtek or this particular model?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on November 15, 2007, 11:12:40 AM
Karsten,

If you need me to work with you to get them in the US and then ship them I would be glad to do so, but as Nick said, the price of the XLR-1 adapter is not a good value.

Good to see you again and +T.

Hi there Boa,

yeah...I know the XLR really is expensive (even more when buying it over here..they charge 500 euros (about $730) compared to ~450 Us (which is about 310 euros these days).But I think I´d want both since I hope that they`ll be a perfect fit.

Best price on both is some $950 US so far compared to some 1100 euros /$1650 Us when buying them over here or getting them from Japan.

@Boa..is it true that the Crowes come over for some dates this november?? Haven`t talked to Sven in years, would love to meet up with him again... 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: fmaderjr on November 15, 2007, 11:24:37 AM
Great idea to use the PS-2!

Sound professionals is selling one with a 1/8 mini already installed for $199.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/DEN-PS2-MINI

But if you bought the regular one for $129.99 here
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/406897-REG/Denecke_PS2_PS_2_Portable_Dual.html
and had it adapted yourself, you'd save even more.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on November 15, 2007, 11:32:46 AM
Great idea to use the PS-2!

Sound professionals is selling one with a 1/8 mini already installed for $199.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/DEN-PS2-MINI

But if you bought the regular one for $129.99 here
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/406897-REG/Denecke_PS2_PS_2_Portable_Dual.html
and had it adapted yourself, you'd save even more.

Great! Thank!

The only thing I dislike is that it runs on a 9V block battery...you cannot use rechargable batteries on that one since they won`t last some 2h+ compared to the AA NiMh...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: fmaderjr on November 15, 2007, 12:11:09 PM
I don't know much about rechargeable 9 volt batteries, but this new one, with the appropriate charger, might be a possibility.
http://www.thomasdistributing.com/ipower-9v-lithium-rechargeable-battery.php

Among their claims is "Will actually out perform a standard 9 volt alkaline battery in High Drain Applications."
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 15, 2007, 02:12:47 PM
any phantom source w/a xlr > mini cable.
the rolls is more than 1/2 the price of the PS2 even (and runs longer)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 17, 2007, 07:33:08 PM
I am leaning towards ordering one, going C4s (hopefully at some point a apir of schoeps) -Mixpre-PCm-D50. I like the possility to do a quick on the fly recording, if I hear an interesting sound etc., and I cannot carry my entire setup with me all the time, but the PCM-D50 I could, I believe.
I think the 70 Dollar for the Tripod are a nusiance, though. I have a small 12 Dollar Tripod with a 5/8" male thread - does anyone know, where I could get an adapter from 5/8" male to the Sony?
udo
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: 108Ω on November 17, 2007, 09:16:48 PM

At 24/48 the recording time is 1:54 at the 2GB limit on any recorder.   The fact that they're giving the 4GB time limit leads me to believe there is no "2GB problem".  We shall see.


The FR-2 uses BWFF and will record straight 4.7GB files onto a 5GB PCM card and supposedly nearly 8GB on an 8GB CF, tho' I've never tried it.(there is file overhead that decreases the size slightly)
The problem comes during transfer, when you carry the file to a computer which doesn't have an application to open the file.
Audition will import it, Wavelab will import it, AudioHack will split it, I've heard that Samplitude works with large files, and even the latest version of Audacity can handle it.
I'm guessing that we'll start to see more large file support with 24/96 and big flash cards getting to be more commonplace.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: 108Ω on November 17, 2007, 09:19:17 PM
Is there any chance this might be an acceptable substitute for the XLR-1 at half the price?
http://www.samys.com/product_detail.php?item=3355

I'm guessing there might be an audible difference in quality. Anybody know anything about Beachtek or this particular model?


1/2 (left mic-only) phantom...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: F.O.Bean on November 17, 2007, 11:02:02 PM
how about those internal mics! 90 and 120 degrees!! that thing looks schweet  ;D

Its not even true XY tho :P At least they could have made it true XY by putting one capsule over the otehr at the same place on the capsule :P
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: 108Ω on November 18, 2007, 10:40:27 AM
how about those internal mics! 90 and 120 degrees!! that thing looks schweet  ;D

Its not even true XY tho :P At least they could have made it true XY by putting one capsule over the otehr at the same place on the capsule :P

Yeah, but they at least have gotten past SCMS and 7-pins!

OK, so why do I want the PCM-D50 over an FR-2LE?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spoogles on November 18, 2007, 01:44:38 PM
Sweetwater's site has this on it:
 We've confirmed this item has shipped from Sony and should arrive in our warehouse within a day or two. Go ahead, place your order now. We will ship it immediately, the very same day we receive it from Sony. Call now. We promise you'll have it soon.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on November 18, 2007, 04:10:35 PM
this ebay-guy called "whetzky" is selling it for 600€(870$) HAHA!!!
seems there are always some crazy nuts people buying extremely overpriced stuff from him......
he´s a german guy living in japan.

http://cgi.ebay.at/Sony-PCM-D50-Semi-Professional-PCM-Recorder-PCM-D1_W0QQitemZ330187798097QQihZ014QQcategoryZ21775QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on November 19, 2007, 02:16:16 AM
this ebay-guy called "whetzky" is selling it for 600€(870$) HAHA!!!
seems there are always some crazy nuts people buying extremely overpriced stuff from him......
he´s a german guy living in japan.

http://cgi.ebay.at/Sony-PCM-D50-Semi-Professional-PCM-Recorder-PCM-D1_W0QQitemZ330187798097QQihZ014QQcategoryZ21775QQcmdZViewItem

Yeah, I`ve seen his auctions...ridiculous...he sells it at german list price and here you must still add taxes (20+%) and shipping !!!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: oivindi on November 19, 2007, 05:55:22 AM
B&H has the PCM-D50 in stock for $499:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/524130-REG/Sony_PCMD50_PCM_D50_Professional_Portable.html

I'm veeery tempted to replace my Edirol R-09 with this one, but I want to know how noisey the internal mics are - and the input for external mics.

Ah, decisions, decisions.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 19, 2007, 07:11:44 AM
i bet it smokes all of the other "in hand" decks.
but...we'll see.

also, they are NOT in stock at B&H.
says so right on that link you posted.

you'll see them...in 2008 sometime.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: DSatz on November 19, 2007, 07:31:13 AM
The XLR-1 box seems overpriced, but when looking for a less expensive solution, people need to realize that there's no such thing as a universal passive adapter from two XLR inputs to an unbalanced mini-plug unless it contains a pair of audio transformers. And the good ones of those, such as Jensen or Lundahl, are quite expensive (see for example http://www.jensen-transformers.com/ms2xx.html).

Without transformers or active circuitry, no matter how you wire the box (among the several possibilities that exist) there will be some good mikes that it won't work with, or won't work properly. It may pass no signal at all, or it may pass signal from one output lead while it shorts the other one to ground, increasing the distortion and lowering the maximum SPL of the microphone. Or it may work fine. But that depends on exactly how the box and the output circuit of the microphones are designed. There's no one formula such as "just connect pin 3 to pin 1" or "just connect pin 2 to pin 1" or "just connect pin 2 and leave pin 3 hanging" all of which I've seen people give out as if it was the most obvious, well-known thing in the world.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but let the buyer beware. There is a standard for balanced operation of phantom-powered microphones, but no standard for unbalanced operation. If you imagine that this subject has a simple solution, you're simply wrong and you're headed straight for the problems I'm talking about.

--best regards
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 19, 2007, 07:38:36 AM
so you can't get any ol' phantom supply and "unbalance" the output ?
well..you can, but there could be problems..as you say.

i'm just trying to understand why.  I can't see how you take a straight up balanced signal, kill it w/wiring and end up with a bad, or no signal at all.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: oivindi on November 19, 2007, 01:32:51 PM
also, they are NOT in stock at B&H.
says so right on that link you posted.


It said "In Stock" when I posted the link earlier today, so either they sold out quickly, or it was a mistake. Considering Sweetwater has said Sony has sent them stock, B&H could've gotten stock early.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 19, 2007, 02:10:32 PM
the sony reps I know say nobody has seen it.
so if people have had them in stock...where are they?

i say they will not be seen until 08.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: finao1 on November 19, 2007, 03:13:47 PM
I saw them available Friday from B&H and got my order in time.  I will have it tomorrow morning.  Currently I own the Edirol R-09, being fed line-in from a Sound Devices 302.  I'm looking forward to comparing the two recorders.

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 19, 2007, 03:39:32 PM
the sony reps I know say nobody has seen it.
so if people have had them in stock...where are they?

i say they will not be seen until 08.

I saw them available Friday from B&H and got my order in time.  I will have it tomorrow morning.  Currently I own the Edirol R-09, being fed line-in from a Sound Devices 302.  I'm looking forward to comparing the two recorders.

BP

Nick...  Looks like you need some more reliable sources...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on November 19, 2007, 03:48:52 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 19, 2007, 04:12:36 PM
Nick...  Looks like you need some more reliable sources...

Looks like it eh?
:)
good!  i'm glad ... i want to see one of these in real true true life
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 19, 2007, 04:16:28 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.

I agree.  I'm already wondering if you can remove them with a hard hack...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 19, 2007, 04:22:25 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.

I agree.  I'm already wondering if you can remove them with a hard hack...

Why not just buy a Hi-MD if stealth is the need.  I am keeping my RH10 but hope to have my PCM-D50 in my grubby hands by next week according to my update today from Musician's Friend.  But, it remains to be seen like Nick states...
Happy Birthday to me while I am at it   ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: finao1 on November 19, 2007, 04:25:48 PM
I will try to give a physical evaluation tomorrow.  I will not be able to assess recording capability till later in the week.

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: flintstone on November 19, 2007, 04:49:28 PM
Sony PCM-D50 and Edirol R-09

The measurements reported by the manufacturers:

Edirol R-09
2-1/2 x 4-1/16 x 1-3/16 in.   
63 x 102 x 29 mm
5.15 oz (146g) with 2 AA batteries

Sony PCM-D50
2-7/8" x 6-1/8" x 1-5/16"
74 x 155 x  33mm
12.88 oz  (365g) including 4 AA batteries

So the D50 is  3/8" wider, 2 1/8" taller,  and  1/4" thicker

The D50 is also more than twice as heavy, 7.73 oz (219 g) more. 
Some of that is 2 extra AA batteries, but most of the difference
is in the D-50's metal case.

Flintstone
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 19, 2007, 05:31:37 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.

I agree.  I'm already wondering if you can remove them with a hard hack...

Why not just buy a Hi-MD if stealth is the need.  I am keeping my RH10 but hope to have my PCM-D50 in my grubby hands by next week according to my update today from Musician's Friend.  But, it remains to be seen like Nick states...
Happy Birthday to me while I am at it   ;D

I think the reasons why not to use MD are pretty obvious - disk limitations, disk errors, disk flips, 16 bit.  That's why.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on November 19, 2007, 05:56:03 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.

I agree.  I'm already wondering if you can remove them with a hard hack...

Why not just buy a Hi-MD if stealth is the need.  I am keeping my RH10 but hope to have my PCM-D50 in my grubby hands by next week according to my update today from Musician's Friend.  But, it remains to be seen like Nick states...
Happy Birthday to me while I am at it   ;D

I think the reasons why not to use MD are pretty obvious - disk limitations, disk errors, disk flips, 16 bit.  That's why.

I've made plenty of great MD recordings.  16bit wav, with pretty good preamps makes a great stealth rig.  It is especially nice with the advanced remote, so you can see/adjust levels without touching the unit.  I've got two MD that I keep, and occasionally use if I need a second rig, or if I want to record quieter stuff.

I'm expecting this new recorder will have good preamps too.  Let's hope so...

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 19, 2007, 05:57:52 PM
ditto.
in fact, i'd like to have a nice high-MD rig for my stealthing.
although, running the church pre > mr1 at 1bit/2.8gHz WSD doesn't suck.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on November 19, 2007, 07:45:00 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.

I agree.  I'm already wondering if you can remove them with a hard hack...

Why not just buy a Hi-MD if stealth is the need.  I am keeping my RH10 but hope to have my PCM-D50 in my grubby hands by next week according to my update today from Musician's Friend.  But, it remains to be seen like Nick states...
Happy Birthday to me while I am at it   ;D

I think the reasons why not to use MD are pretty obvious - disk limitations, disk errors, disk flips, 16 bit.  That's why.

Exactly. I totally agree...MD will never be an option from me and is fading away just like DAT is.

It doesn't have to be the size of a coaster for me to stealth, just that the construction of the PCM-D50 makes stealth more challenging when compared to the R-09.  I may be up for that challenge.  The fact that it has a digi-in makes me desire it.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 19, 2007, 08:11:13 PM
I have an R-09 and thinking about jumping to this, but all that built-in mic crap bothers me size-wise as I need to stealth most of the time.  I'd like to see photos of this next to the R-09 once someone has this in their hands.

I agree.  I'm already wondering if you can remove them with a hard hack...

Why not just buy a Hi-MD if stealth is the need.  I am keeping my RH10 but hope to have my PCM-D50 in my grubby hands by next week according to my update today from Musician's Friend.  But, it remains to be seen like Nick states...
Happy Birthday to me while I am at it   ;D

I think the reasons why not to use MD are pretty obvious - disk limitations, disk errors, disk flips, 16 bit.  That's why.

I've made plenty of great MD recordings.  16bit wav, with pretty good preamps makes a great stealth rig.  It is especially nice with the advanced remote, so you can see/adjust levels without touching the unit.  I've got two MD that I keep, and occasionally use if I need a second rig, or if I want to record quieter stuff.

I'm expecting this new recorder will have good preamps too.  Let's hope so...

  Richard


I can do all of this with my DAT deck.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 19, 2007, 10:08:48 PM
ditto.
in fact, i'd like to have a nice high-MD rig for my stealthing.
although, running the church pre > mr1 at 1bit/2.8gHz WSD doesn't suck.


Yeap, I hear ya on that but since I already have two Hi-MDs and all the accessories, I'll keep it around as a back-up.  I have made some damn fine stealth recordings with my MDs and Hi-MDs, regardless of using compression or not.  The mic preamps on those little pups make up for the other stated negatives IMHO.  But, back to waiting on the PCM-D50 8)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: DSatz on November 19, 2007, 10:51:12 PM
Nick's Picks, maybe you're thinking of the way microphones with output transformers behave, as if all balanced microphones behaved that same way; your conception of the way things work applies 100% to microphones with output transformers.

But transformerless balanced microphones don't necessarily have symmetrical output circuits. They're still considered balanced if, for example, one pin isn't driven at all, but merely has passive components (such as an RC network) connecting it to circuit ground through the same impedance as the pin that's actively driven. Some very widely used transformerless professional condenser microphones--I'm thinking for example of the Neumann KM 100 and 180 series--are built that way.

Which pin they drive varies, however--the KM 100F amplifier drives one pin while the standard model KM 100 drives the other one (in opposite polarity). As a result, no matter whether you choose to ground pin 2 or pin 3 at the input to your unbalanced recording device (via a coupling capacitor of course, so that you don't short the phantom powering), with some kinds of very good microphones you will be shorting their entire audio output to ground. Whichever pin you choose, you're definitely screwed some of the time.

And that's not the only type of output configuration to contend with. The Schoeps circuit drives both pins 2 and 3 actively; if you short either one to ground (again, even if only at AC), you're loading half the circuit with a far lower impedance than it's designed to drive--and that is virtually guaranteed to cause premature overload.

I frankly don't know how DPA, AKG, or various Chinese manufacturers arrange their transformerless output circuits but I do know that each manufacturer of professional condenser microphones gives their own instructions for the proper connection of their own microphones to unbalanced inputs, and that the different manufacturers recommend at least four different schemes (that I know of) for doing this--and in some cases with one manufacturer alone, the instructions vary from model to model depending on the exact configuration of the output circuit. Choose the wrong approach for a given microphone type, and you may well get the silent treatment or early brickwalling.

So I repeat: The ONLY passive approach that works in all cases is an input transformer--and that, of course, effectively makes the input balanced.

Or you could build an active buffer circuit with a balanced input and an unbalanced output. But that can become a difficult project by the time you accomodate all different microphone sensitivities and impedances, and the whole point was to avoid active circuitry that would need its own powering, no? Otherwise, people might as well just bring along a mike-to-line preamp with balanced inputs and unbalanced outputs, and use the line inputs of the recording device.

--best regards
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 19, 2007, 11:23:35 PM
ditto.
in fact, i'd like to have a nice high-MD rig for my stealthing.
although, running the church pre > mr1 at 1bit/2.8gHz WSD doesn't suck.


Yeap, I hear ya on that but since I already have two Hi-MDs and all the accessories, I'll keep it around as a back-up.  I have made some damn fine stealth recordings with my MDs and Hi-MDs, regardless of using compression or not.  The mic preamps on those little pups make up for the other stated negatives IMHO.  But, back to waiting on the PCM-D50 8)

Personally - I think the pre-amp on the M1 is better than all the Sony minidisc recorders.  These days you can get a used M1 for ~$150, plus DATs are cheaper than minidiscs...  Quality wise the R-09's preamp is on par with the minidisc preamps.  If you tape 50 shows a year, then the R-09 pays for itself in media savings.  The reason I am excited about the D50 is that the preamp and ADC are probably better than the R-09.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on November 19, 2007, 11:57:29 PM
ditto.
in fact, i'd like to have a nice high-MD rig for my stealthing.
although, running the church pre > mr1 at 1bit/2.8gHz WSD doesn't suck.


Yeap, I hear ya on that but since I already have two Hi-MDs and all the accessories, I'll keep it around as a back-up.  I have made some damn fine stealth recordings with my MDs and Hi-MDs, regardless of using compression or not.  The mic preamps on those little pups make up for the other stated negatives IMHO.  But, back to waiting on the PCM-D50 8)

Personally - I think the pre-amp on the M1 is better than all the Sony minidisc recorders.  These days you can get a used M1 for ~$150, plus DATs are cheaper than minidiscs...  Quality wise the R-09's preamp is on par with the minidisc preamps.  If you tape 50 shows a year, then the R-09 pays for itself in media savings.  The reason I am excited about the D50 is that the preamp and ADC are probably better than the R-09.
I've found the MD preamps have lower noise than the R09.  Very good noise specs, actually.  For higher level signals, the R09 are a bit better I've found.  That is why I keep the MD around.  Me too, I'm hoping that the PCM-D50 will have better preamps than both.  That, and digital input make it perfect for a primary recorder.

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Ozpeter on November 20, 2007, 06:36:26 AM
There's some very interesting stuff on the merits of the HiMD range preamps at http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/himd/index.html - see also the stuff in the links, eg http://www.wildlife-sound.org/equipment/himd/himdmyths_meas.html - these machines have quite a reputation in wildlife recording circles, and these guys are very fussy about noise levels!  However, I realise that the needs of a wildlife recordist and  concert tapeist may differ somewhat.

Put it this way - if the PCM-D50 has preamps up to the standard of the RH-1 and the like, it should be pretty damn good.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 07:16:05 AM
awesome info Dsatz.
thanks for the education.
+T
Title: PCM-D50 Arrived
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 12:07:25 PM
Just to confirm I recieved my D50 this morning.  Excellent service from B&H.  I unpacked it, loaded batteries to confirm it powers up.  I"m looking forward to trying it later today.

My initial impression is that this is a very well made piece of equipment for the $ (499).  The unit has a solid heft to it;  it is not necessarily heavy, but it does feel more substantial than the R-09 or the Zoom H4 I previously owned.  It is very close in size to the Zoom H4. 

I also was impressed that this must be a project that had designers paying attention to detail in design and manufacture.  The fit and finish is excellent.  I'm aware these observations are totally superficial (and may prove out differently over time), but compared to other recorders close in price, the Sony appearance is much higher quality.  I'll try to post some pictures shortly.

The dials for levels and headphone volume are very smooth to operate.  I'm going to like that better than the push buttons.  The display looks like it will be easy to read...I'm looking forward to trying it out.  Lets hope the sound quality is good.

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 20, 2007, 12:17:47 PM
Definitely that is cool.  I am hoping to have mine shipped out tomorrow from MF.  Pix of the new toy would be very cool as well.  Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on November 20, 2007, 01:50:35 PM
Thanks for the update...keep those comments/photos coming. (is it tax refund time yet!?  ;D )
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 20, 2007, 02:40:55 PM
Thanks for the first report on this!!! I would be super curious how the internal mics sound - whether they are crappy and should be entirely ignored (which would make me lean towards a fr2-le) or if they actually can be used.
Does it come with some sort of bag?
Thanks again,
Udo
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 03:01:44 PM
what i'd like to see...is if those mics can be hacked off and "extended" via a cable.
:)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: kskreider on November 20, 2007, 03:06:30 PM
what i'd like to see...is if those mics can be hacked off and "extended" via a cable.
:)

I still vote for "hacked off".  I don't care how good they sound.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 20, 2007, 03:23:27 PM
Can't this puppy run with them before you cut his nuts (I mean mics) off?    :yikes:
Title: Pictures as Promised
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 03:44:46 PM
So far, so good.  I did some quick tests with my Rode NT3 and 302 mixer into line-in.  It is very easy to set a -20 level with the level knob by sending tone from the 302.  We appear to have the same issue we had with the R-09 knowing what exactly is unity gain.  Setting the levels to 0 turns all level off (even external line level).  Lots of trial to do, but initial recording looks (sounds) good and very clean.  I'm not detecting any hiss at all through the 7506 headphones using line in or direct mic in (NT3 to PCM-D50).  I start traveling tonight for Thanksgiving (16 hours of driving).  I'll try to check in via the road and add any updates.

Happy Thanksgiving.

BP
Title: Two more pictures
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 03:46:56 PM
In hand picture!

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 20, 2007, 03:54:12 PM
Really not that big, unless you have really big hands like me  ;D
Title: Hands
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 03:56:24 PM
My hands are fairly normal size, not large.

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Ozpeter on November 20, 2007, 04:04:53 PM
Those pics give me a major ache in the wallet.  The moths in there are looking real nervous.  Thanks for posting them!
Title: Pre-amps are clean!
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 04:50:23 PM
Here's the good news...The pre-amps sound fantastic with a microphone plugged direct to the mic in port.  This is the first portable I have used that allows me to use a dynamic mic without going through the external pre.  Levels are strong, I am not detecting any noise using the Rode NT3, NT4 (stereo), or a cheap dynamic Apex 870B. 

Now for the rub.  The internal (topside) mics are no-where close to what I'm getting with the externals.  Hiss using the built in mics is similar to the hiss I get with the Edirol R-09 internals.  That would make them good for loud sources such as bands, but not so good for low level recording.  I do hear background hiss with the built in mics.  It must be the mics (not the pre-amps); I hear slightly more hiss in the left channel (right mic) when I'm in XY configuration.  When I switch to wide configuration (right mic is now right channel) the hiss is stronger in the right channel.  Again, nothing major, but I would not expect the D50 to be a strong contender with its built-ins. 

Considering the exceptional job it is doing with every external mic I try it with, I'm feeling very positive that the D50 is going to meet my personal needs.
Title: Clarify on internals
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 05:10:39 PM
I turned on the stereo and played some music at about 85db.  The internal mics do a good job recording as the music covers up any noise.  I do hear hiss monitoring with the Sony 7506 headphones when spl drops in the music.  To keep it in perspective, I do believe the hiss with the internals is lower than I get with the R-09.

Also, the headphone jack and output is very clean!  I do not detect the headphone jack adding anything to the recorded sound.  I like the line out feeding the Sound Devices 302.  I am able to monitor using headphones direct from the mixer and also from the line out return from the D50. 

All this is preliminary; I am no expert.  But, I can't get over the mic-in quality.  I have no idea how it will measure in the lab, but I am seriously wondering if I need to go through the SD 302 (If I'm using only 2 channels).  The mic pre on the D50 is that clean!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: kskreider on November 20, 2007, 05:12:52 PM
So only analog in and no digital in, right?  Only digital out's?

+T for being a guinea pig
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 05:22:21 PM
no, its got digi in.
this is all good info!!!
well done.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Ozpeter on November 20, 2007, 05:22:45 PM
Quote
So only analog in and no digital in, right?  Only digital out's?
See the first post in the whole thread!   Optical in and out.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 20, 2007, 05:22:56 PM
mini-optical plug like the MDs.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: kskreider on November 20, 2007, 05:29:42 PM
Quote
So only analog in and no digital in, right?  Only digital out's?
See the first post in the whole thread!   Optical in and out.

Sorry I haven't looked at post #1 in six weeks since it was first posted.  My bad.  I just figured I would ask the guy with the recorder in his hand.

Edit to say that I still don't understand the fad of protruding crap mics.  Cut your costs and just give us a good bit bucket with decent pre's already.
Title: Has digital in and out.
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 05:33:04 PM
The line in and line out are combo ports.  They handle a 1/8 inch connector or the digital connector.  I haven't tried anything with the digital (not the way I'll use the recorder).

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 05:47:22 PM
there isn't much to understand. 
they dont make these for tapers.  they make them for ENG, and then the mics are perfect for interviewing and basic soundscapes.

I think this will make a great bit bucket.
and if those mics are 1/2 decent...then great!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 05:53:20 PM
from the looks of it...how easy will it be to disassemble this ?
does it have exposed screws to take the front/rear off ?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on November 20, 2007, 05:54:13 PM
there isn't much to understand. 
they dont make these for tapers.  they make them for ENG, and then the mics are perfect for interviewing and basic soundscapes.

I think this will make a great bit bucket.
and if those mics are 1/2 decent...then great!

I noticed that the mics swivel too, which is kinda cool.

If you really don't like the mics, you could put new ones in there.  But I'd be curious to hear how the builtin mics sound.  The Edirol R09 ones are not very good, but I suspect the Sony might be better.

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 05:58:10 PM
I'd like to see if they can be removed and extended via a wire.
or, can you hardwire something like 853s or DPAs and a battery box in their place.
that would be the shiz.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on November 20, 2007, 06:01:48 PM
OK, can someone (the early adopter in this thread, lol) measure the plug in power?

In particular, measure the open circuit voltage, and the loaded voltage (eg., with a 1k resistor).  I need both measurements to see what kind of mics it will power.

Thanks already.  This info is great!

 Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 20, 2007, 06:20:01 PM
i'm supposed to have one of these coming at some point. 
when it does...its going straight to the bench for dissection.
Title: Power / Measurements
Post by: finao1 on November 20, 2007, 06:53:20 PM
LOL - really I am not an expert.  Someone else is going to need to handle the measurements.  There are screws at the back swivel point of each microphone.  But I can't be clear if this will give someone access to the mic internals.   I believe the mics will end up being the major differentiator between the D50 and the D1.  If you are willing (or want) to use external microphones, the D50 may be the ticket.  Otherwise, invest in the D1.  The samples I heard of those mics were very good.

BP
Title: Re: Pre-amps are clean!
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 20, 2007, 07:22:40 PM

Now for the rub.  The internal (topside) mics are no-where close to what I'm getting with the externals.  Hiss using the built in mics is similar to the hiss I get with the Edirol R-09 internals.  That would make them good for loud sources such as bands, but not so good for low level recording.  I do hear background hiss with the built in mics.  It must be the mics (not the pre-amps); I hear slightly more hiss in the left channel (right mic) when I'm in XY configuration.  When I switch to wide configuration (right mic is now right channel) the hiss is stronger in the right channel.  Again, nothing major, but I would not expect the D50 to be a strong contender with its built-ins. 


This is not at all surprising.  Sony reps (at AES) admitted that the D50 mics were not as good as the D1 mics, and those are nothing to get excited about.  I did a test a few weeks back with the D1 positioned on the same mic stand as my usual setup for a classical string quartet, the tape sounds acceptable until you compare it to my AKG 426 recording, which makes it sound like a step above a wax cylinder.

Jeff
Title: Re: Pre-amps are clean!
Post by: prof_peabody on November 20, 2007, 07:41:06 PM

This is not at all surprising.  Sony reps (at AES) admitted that the D50 mics were not as good as the D1 mics, and those are nothing to get excited about.  I did a test a few weeks back with the D1 positioned on the same mic stand as my usual setup for a classical string quartet, the tape sounds acceptable until you compare it to my AKG 426 recording, which makes it sound like a step above a wax cylinder.

Jeff

Are you saying these are as good as analog recordings?   :bigsmile:
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mandoman on November 20, 2007, 08:42:12 PM
If you really don't like the mics, you could put new ones in there.  But I'd be curious to hear how the builtin mics sound.  The Edirol R09 ones are not very good, but I suspect the Sony might be better.

Maybe someone like Busman will do a mic cap mod for this? Put some nice AKG caps
in there instead ;D

Good news so far on the internal mic pre.

Welcome back Sony, we've missed you!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: ilduclo on November 21, 2007, 05:45:24 PM
I run dpa 4061's to a spsb3 battery box, all 1/8" single connections. Any of this work ok with this new box?

for loud shows?
for quiet ones?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on November 21, 2007, 05:59:20 PM
yes
yes
yes
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on November 21, 2007, 08:20:58 PM
B&H is backordered now...
looks like I missed out on the first shipments.

I put in an order but I bet I won't see one for atleast a month.

  :(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on November 22, 2007, 11:51:09 AM
You can get it from ebay.

DJDeals is selling it for $498 with free shipping. I'm sure there'll be other places selling it for cheaper.

How long does the recorder last with a set of 4 AA batteries set @24/96?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: flintstone on November 22, 2007, 01:53:28 PM
The online docs say the D50 will provide about 12 hours of recording from four AA cells.  Sony's reports of battery life for minidisc machines has been pretty accurate, so I'm guessing 10 hours should be possible even with the LCD display on.   

Flintstone
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on November 22, 2007, 02:02:53 PM
at least 3 pcm-d50 are available on ebay right now for 499$ shipping worldwide with USPS.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 22, 2007, 07:18:18 PM
Regarding extra media memory for this PCM-D50.  The manual states only Duo Pro HG and Duo Pro (High Speed) are compatible and goes on to state that other forms of memory sticks are not guaranteed.  So, you can't use anything but HG or High Speed with this unit?  If anyone can confirm and test that would be cool.  Lots of deals going for Black Friday and I want to get something that will work but cheap would also be nice!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 22, 2007, 07:29:45 PM
Also, got this off Wikipedia...confused me more!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Memory Stick PRO

The Memory Stick PRO, introduced in 2003 as a joint effort between Sony and SanDisk [2], would be the longer-lasting solution to the space problem. Most devices that use the original Memory Stick form factor support both the original Memory Sticks and the PRO Sticks; some readers that were not compatible could be upgraded to Memory Stick PRO support via a Flash ROM update. Memory Stick PROs have a marginally higher transfer speed and a maximum theoretical capacity of 32 GB. High Speed Memory Stick PROs are available, and newer devices support this High Speed mode, allowing for faster file transfers. All Memory Stick PROs larger than 1 GB support this High Speed mode, and High Speed Memory Stick Pros are backwards-compatible with devices that don't support the High Speed mode. High capacity memory sticks such as the 4 GB versions are expensive compared to other types of flash memory such as SD cards and CompactFlash
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Does that mean if I get a Pro Duo over 1Gb, then it will be High Speed compatible????

On a good note, I received a shipping confirmation from Musician's Friend.  When I get home from the inlaws, I hope to find it (my new PCM-D50) on my door  ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: flintstone on November 22, 2007, 10:41:23 PM
Memory Stick HG Pro Duo has a theoretical max speed of 60MB/second.  That's about three times as fast as the max speed of the Pro Duo.

It's more informative to check out the **minimum** write speed of the two memory sticks:

Pro Duo: 1.875 MB/second
HG Pro Duo: 6 MB/second

Two channel 24/96 WAV recordings generate data at a rate of 576,000 bytes per second, three times less than the Pro Duo's minimum.  So the Pro Duo should be a good match with the PCM-D50.  It's unknown why Sony would recommend against the Pro Duo.

The Pro Duo costs about $65 for a 4GB stick.  The 4GB HG Pro Duo costs $95.

Flintstone
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 22, 2007, 10:49:37 PM
Memory Stick HG Pro Duo has a theoretical max speed of 60MB/second.  That's about three times as fast as the max speed of the Pro Duo.

It's more informative to check out the **minimum** write speed of the two memory sticks:

Pro Duo: 1.875 MB/second
HG Pro Duo: 6 MB/second

Two channel 24/96 WAV recordings generate data at a rate of 576,000 bytes per second, three times less than the Pro Duo's minimum.  So the Pro Duo should be a good match with the PCM-D50.  It's unknown why Sony would recommend against the Pro Duo.

The Pro Duo costs about $65 for a 4GB stick.  The 4GB HG Pro Duo costs $95.

Flintstone
Thank you, I was looking at the data rates and Pro Duo can handle DVD video writing, so I was confident it would work with just the audio write.  Thanks again for the info!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 24, 2007, 10:55:48 PM
I had a problem with the "high speed" and ordinary pro duo memory on the D1.  The 4GB pro memory sticks and pro duo with adapter (both Sony and SanDisk) worked fine at 24/96 in the D1 in spite of the warnings that you needed "high speed" versions, and I was hoping the 8GB pro duo would work too.  It does not, or at least not beyond the first 3.8 GB or so (it shows up in the D1 and records as roughly a 3.8 GB card, though in my computer I can get a full 8GB onto it). So I suspect that for longer record times we'll have to wait for the 8GB HG pro duo cards (due early next year).

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 25, 2007, 09:56:51 AM
Not sure if these 8Gb will require a ROM update since the manual only shows up to 4Gb on the media charts.  I bought a cheap 8Gb Pro Duo at Best Buy this weekend but took it back and ordered the $100 4Gb HG Pro Duo at Best Buy instead.  Memory stick online charts only show the HG as working, which is suspect until someone can offer proof otherwise for the D50.  I should have my D50 on Tuesday according to UPS shipping tracking. 

Here's the online Memory Stick charts (http://esupport.sony.com/perl/support-info.pl?&info_id=19&mdl=PCMD50):
Title: Recorded sax with success
Post by: finao1 on November 25, 2007, 12:46:52 PM
Used the PCM-50 to record some saxaphone this weekend. I was very happy with the quality feeding the line-in. I did do a cut with the built in mics, and was fairly impressed with the results. I'm feeling that the internals may be more usefull than my initial impression. I also did some cuts feeding the Sony and the R-09 concurrently. I will be home tonight and will try to compare cuts.

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: finao1 on November 25, 2007, 12:56:38 PM
I forgot to mention. I went to B&H in NY on Friday morning. The sales rep said that they ordered 500 and got in 20. 10 were presold and the other 10 went quick. He did not know when the next shipment was coming. I'm glad I got mine early.
Title: Re: Recorded sax with success
Post by: udo on November 25, 2007, 01:22:04 PM
Used the PCM-50 to record some saxaphone this weekend. I was very happy with the quality feeding the line-in. I did do a cut with the built in mics, and was fairly impressed with the results. I'm feeling that the internals may be more usefull than my initial impression. I also did some cuts feeding the Sony and the R-09 concurrently. I will be home tonight and will try to compare cuts.

BP

Finao, I am really interested in this recorder, and your posts are super helpful! Thanks a lot!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on November 25, 2007, 08:32:05 PM
+T finao1.  I'd like to hear that Line-In Comp between the R09 and the D50.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on November 25, 2007, 09:32:47 PM
Anyone know if this thing is actually available anywhere right now?  I would cancel my B&H order if I could find one somewhere else.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 25, 2007, 10:10:13 PM
+T finao1.  I'd like to hear that Line-In Comp between the R09 and the D50.

I will pull the trigger and order one, if there are any available ... This seems to be a real upgrade from my rather big and heavy 16-bit pmd670.

Finao1: since you own both the R9 and the Sony, could you check if the thread for the tripod is the same size in both recorders, since I would rather use this instead:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/437114-REG/Edirol_Roland_OP_R09M_OP_R09M_Microphone_Stand.html
Title: Quick comparison
Post by: finao1 on November 25, 2007, 10:49:56 PM
Finally got home (after what turned to be a 17 hour drive).  I took  cuts of saxophone played by my 14 year old nephew.  Both files were recorded concurrently from a Rode NT3 mic into a Sound Devices 302 mixer, fed concurrently to an Edirol R-09 and a Sony PCM-D50 (both using line in).  Sorry for such a small sample. It is tough to stay within the attachment 512k size allowance.  Levels are within .5db of each other.  File is short cut from each 192 mp3.  First is the R-09, second is the Sony.  Personally, after listening to both (with much longer cuts), I think its splitting hairs between the two using line in.  I do like the ease of use with the d50.  Setting levels with the SD 302 is so easy.  The D50 peak meters also have a digital peak readout.  So I can quickly set tone, turn the level wheel until I get -20 on the Sony, and I'm good to go.
Title: Re: Tripod thread
Post by: finao1 on November 25, 2007, 10:53:27 PM
There is no thread on the R09, I believe you need to buy the case.  The tripod thread on the PCM-D50 is standard (35mm camera type).
Title: A fun sample with the internal microphones
Post by: finao1 on November 25, 2007, 11:33:26 PM
See, they're not so bad!

Converted to 128 mp3 to fit.

By the way, all original recordings were done 24 bit 48K.

BP
Title: Re: Tripod thread
Post by: udo on November 25, 2007, 11:43:12 PM
The tripod thread on the PCM-D50 is standard (35mm camera type).
Thats even better. That way I could have the sony and a tiny tripod with me all the time, in case there is something interesting to record, and when I set out for serious recording, I would pack the whole bag with the mixpre, the studio projects, stereo bars, windscreen etc. Again, thanks a lot for sharing your experiences ...
Title: Re: A fun sample with the internal microphones
Post by: udo on November 25, 2007, 11:50:15 PM
See, they're not so bad!

Btw, your nephew is doing a nice job there! I think the internals sound pretty good. You can hear the difference to the Rode Nt3/SD 302, though, with the bass response. On the Nt3 recordings the slight thumping of the sax keys is a nice effect, that makes the instrument more physical. But for my purpose as having the sony mics as a sort of "snapshot" tool it seems to be entirely sufficient.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: finao1 on November 26, 2007, 07:49:18 AM
Thanks for your comments.  I think you have described the purpose/benefit of the internal mics.  It's great for a snapshot type of capture.  It will not be the absolute, but having it available to record family or friends without bringing the entire audio gear...could be priceless.

A few other comments re: the PCM-D50...I have only had one set of batteries in it since I got it Tuesday.  I recorded, sampled and played with the unit for at least two hours.  Last night, I left it on by accident, feeding the computer at the USB connection.  This morning (7 hours later) the battery is on low, but not giving any warning and powers up ready to record.  Battery life is going to be amazing.

BP
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 26, 2007, 08:56:25 AM
Just pulled the trigger from Music123...
Orders over $250 get $50 off, so this qualifies, and free shipping.
Sweet.
Anyone thinking of getting it should jump on this offer.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on November 26, 2007, 04:30:36 PM
Just pulled the trigger from Music123...
Orders over $250 get $50 off, so this qualifies, and free shipping.
Sweet.
Anyone thinking of getting it should jump on this offer.

Since B&H still has no estimated time of arrival, I canceled and bought one from Music123.  They are a good company based in Philly, and with that save $50 deal, the total cost was $450 w/no tax & free shipping!

+T for the heads up!



Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on November 26, 2007, 07:41:02 PM
After listening to the samples, R09 sounds warmer, more robust, than the D50. 

EDIT:  difference could be tonal to the player and instrument and not the recorders, since the samples are of 2 different songs.     
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 26, 2007, 08:30:47 PM
I don't know...they sound the same to me ???
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 26, 2007, 08:58:19 PM
I got the shipping number from zzounds today, should be here on wednesday  ;D
phphotovideo has them back in stock as well. Too bad I had already ordered at zzounds, when I read about the music123 discount.
Title: Pre-amp quality vs R09
Post by: finao1 on November 26, 2007, 09:12:13 PM
Here's a sample of pre-amp quality from the D50 and R09.  I used a Shure SM57 dynamic mic to gauge the suitability of the recorders without using the Sound Devices 302.  File is attached.  Sony was set to level of 7 (out of 10) on the dial.  Edirol needed high mic gain and level maxed at 30 to have enough gain.  This one is easy to pick.

BP
Title: Re: Pre-amp quality vs R09
Post by: illconditioned on November 26, 2007, 09:22:02 PM
Here's a sample of pre-amp quality from the D50 and R09.  I used a Shure SM57 dynamic mic to gauge the suitability of the recorders without using the Sound Devices 302.  File is attached.  Sony was set to level of 7 (out of 10) on the dial.  Edirol needed high mic gain and level maxed at 30 to have enough gain.  This one is easy to pick.

BP

OK, the Sony sounds great!
What about hotter mics?  If this is at level 7/10 on mic input, would a condenser (with loud jam bands as input!) overload it?

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 26, 2007, 09:30:11 PM
I don't know...they sound the same to me ???
Update...
The R09 and D50 sound the same (to me) on the sample of the kid playing sax, but...
The D50 sounds WAY better with the Shure SM57 direct in.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Mr.Fantasy on November 26, 2007, 09:33:55 PM
Nice sax play for a 14 year old....

Better than I ever was......
Title: Re: Pre-amp quality vs R09
Post by: spyder9 on November 26, 2007, 10:00:08 PM
Here's a sample of pre-amp quality from the D50 and R09.  I used a Shure SM57 dynamic mic to gauge the suitability of the recorders without using the Sound Devices 302.  File is attached.  Sony was set to level of 7 (out of 10) on the dial.  Edirol needed high mic gain and level maxed at 30 to have enough gain.  This one is easy to pick.

BP

Wow!  Thanks for this one BP!  +T in 12.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 26, 2007, 10:00:16 PM
I promise once I get my recorder I will post some internal mic samples. (I left the bag with the mixpre and the c4s at the relatives house, so I won't get back to them them before mid-december).
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: finao1 on November 26, 2007, 10:10:22 PM
The sax play was using the line in for each the R09 and D50.  The Sound Devices 302 has two line outs, one fixed and the other variable.  I was using the variable on the D50 and the fixed on the R09. 

The voice comparisons are direct mic in connections to each recorder.  The voice test really tests the pre-amps while the sax sample bypasses (mostly) the built in pre-amps. 

Re. the comment that the R09 sounded warmer on the sax, although I think they are close, I would tend to agree with that comment.  I do believe the difference may have to do with the R09 getting the fixed line out.  I want to test a sample to both devices and switch the feed for each and see if it makes a difference.  That said, when I was monitored the recording live, I felt that the D50 gave a more accurate representation of what I heard with my ears.

I did not try the NT3 (condenser) with the sax and D50 direct mic in.  There is a 20 db pad (switch) on the side of the D50 to engage if levels are too high.  I have not tried it yet.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: bonghitwillie on November 27, 2007, 12:33:49 AM
i am moving over from dat.  i was gonna buy an r-9.  does this mean i should buy a d50?  i stealth and the d50 looks bigger than the r-9.  how does the d50 compare with the microcrap 2?  i would hate to have to buy 3 dif recorders.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on November 27, 2007, 01:05:48 AM
Got this and translated it via online translation page....it is rough but mentions the media compatibility issues.....it sounds alot like the MT2496 in terms of getting around a error or media full type scenario:

From kakaku.com (a price update and review webpage use by alot of japanese gadget freaks):

Noaru-nichi san 2007年11月19日 13:33

Because I obtain it in ソニスタ on 16th and used it on the weekend, I review it.
In addition, I used R1 and H2 till I obtained D50.

The accessories purchased only a carrying case.

* A built-in microphone
 In the range that built-in Mike did not use a lump very much, but tested a little.
 There is a position stopping in the zero degree that the position of the microphone turn to the front besides 90 degrees and 120 degrees and did in parallelism click.
 LR seems to be decided whether I can turn outward and can install whether I can turn inward than this in the free direction.
 The sound quality of the built-in microphone seems to reflect a frequency characteristic, and it seems to be the sound that is very slightly clear by high level breaking out intensively in one spot.
 When I used it with AT822 in the same condition, AT822 is richer in the low stock price in the middle of a day level, and resolution is an impression that having it built-in is better.
 I think whether there are few noises, and both are excellence for sound quality in a favorite range.
 
* An outside microphone
 I taped the exercise of the full pail with AT822.
 A low level, growth of the high level were well clear in comparison with H2+AT822 and became dynamic.
 The sound that it is a very clear sound, but the line is slightly narrow(Is not the thickness of the intermediate tone enough?) It is an impression.
 But I think that it may be said that it is high sound quality in comparison with R1 and H2 overwhelmingly.

* Operation
 Buttons are usable intuitively intelligibly.
 Because there are A, a B repeat button at the position where it is easy to touch during reproduction, I push it by mistake.
 Because I react when I close the cap with a case in particular, it is necessary to do it and is good if I keep on draining it by in trains, but is slightly inconvenient for hold when I operate forwarding frequently.

* Reproduction sound quality
 It is worthwhile that I am proud of the headphones output and thinks that I am very good.
 DAP uses A808, but listens by the sound that is better than lossless of A808.
 The reproduction of mp3 is good, too.
 I am too big to carry it as DAP, but am very good for a monitor after the recording.
 Because lineOut is good, I may be usable as the reproduction machine of 96khz24bit data.

* An external memory
 This is the only dissatisfaction.
 The correspondence media becomes only HG of MS PRO DUO or hiSpeed.
 I predicted it when I might work even if I met out of support and used UltraII(4G) of SanDisc.
 As a result, I record it without a problem really and can play it.
 But it is troublesome that a message called UNNOWN MEMORY is displayed whenever I switch it on.
 If I ignore it and operate it, I am usable, but want you to revise the unnecessary message not to start it in a farm.
 Perhaps will not the practical use top be all right in normal Pro Duo either?
 I do not measure it about the data transmission, but the which read and wrote MS with an extra card reader seems to be fast than I use the MS via main body memory or the main body by USB.

* A tripod
 I do not use many tripods by how to handle me, but even cheap mini-tripods of the digital camera use are enough.
 But it is necessary to take off a carrying case when I use the tripod.

* Others
 Though odd size of R1 which I used for two years is unpleasant and purchased small H2, I am bigger and get heavy and did it, but am satisfied with feel of a material and a design.
 As for the weight, the main body which pulled a battery is considerably light, but four battery duty considerably works.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Ozpeter on November 27, 2007, 01:44:21 AM
Any half-decent device these days will have an effectively flat frequency response when recording line-in, and noise levels will be unlikely to be of material significance.  Under other than the most critical listening conditions, if the test recordings are carefully made so that comparisons afterwards can be valid, I wouldn't expect to be able to pick one line-in recording from another - unless there's something seriously amiss with one of the devices.  What will be most significant will be the device being connected to the line-in.  If I heard a difference, the first thing I would question would be the test procedure.

Mic input comparisons are of much greater interest, however, particularly when it comes to noise performance of course.  Here I would expect Sony's good track record with portable devices to show up in controlled tests - especially from their Broadcast division.  I'm looking forward to any results posted by the very demanding guys on the nature recordists sites.  They're even more paranoid about noise that Taperssection people!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on November 27, 2007, 03:30:24 AM
Just pulled the trigger from Music123...
Orders over $250 get $50 off, so this qualifies, and free shipping.
Sweet.
Anyone thinking of getting it should jump on this offer.

Samedaymusic matches the price...they offered me the unit for $440 with free shiping to any US address..

B&H has the best deal I could find on the XLR-1 : $419.95 incl.s&h
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: chucky on November 27, 2007, 05:56:52 AM
Damn bro, that Kankaku translation is jacked!!!
Pretty funny though.

A friend of mine has one of these and he ran it at a show last Sat. (Dachambo- japanese jamband)
right next to his 4023 > Mme > D8. Since there's no digi in it's pretty useless for him right now, I think he got it to give to the band for when he can't attend the show as they like all shows to be taped. I'm really curious to give it a listen though, he said it's legit.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on November 27, 2007, 08:26:58 AM
It looks like Kankaku was able to get a Sandisk HG-Pro DUO card to work with the D50.  However, the screen shows a message  "unknown memory", but the D50 will still record and play.  Now, he wonders if a Non-Sony standard DUO card will work.  He hadn't tested that yet. 

The correspondence media becomes only HG of MS PRO DUO or hiSpeed.
 I predicted it when I might work even if I met out of support and used UltraII(4G) of SanDisc.
 As a result, I record it without a problem really and can play it.
 But it is troublesome that a message called UNNOWN MEMORY is displayed whenever I switch it on.
 If I ignore it and operate it, I am usable, but want you to revise the unnecessary message not to start
   it in a farm. Perhaps will not the practical use top be all right in normal Pro Duo either?


He also mentions that he thinks the D50, when using an external mic, blows away the Edirol R1 and the Zoom H2.

  The sound that it is a very clear sound, but the line is slightly narrow(Is not the thickness of the intermediate
  tone enough?) It is an impression. But I think that it may be said that it is high sound quality in comparison with  R1 and H2 overwhelmingly.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on November 27, 2007, 09:18:40 AM
Damn bro, that Kankaku translation is jacked!!!
Pretty funny though.

A friend of mine has one of these and he ran it at a show last Sat. (Dachambo- japanese jamband)
right next to his 4023 > Mme > D8. Since there's no digi in it's pretty useless for him right now, I think he got it to give to the band for when he can't attend the show as they like all shows to be taped. I'm really curious to give it a listen though, he said it's legit.

Look again Chucky.  The D50 has Optical Line-In.   ;)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 27, 2007, 09:19:06 AM
Just pulled the trigger from Music123...
Orders over $250 get $50 off, so this qualifies, and free shipping.
Sweet.
Anyone thinking of getting it should jump on this offer.

Samedaymusic matches the price...they offered me the unit for $440 with free shiping to any US address..

I was quoted $499 and out of stock until early December.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on November 27, 2007, 09:23:23 AM
Just let them know you saw it on music123.com for 449.95, add the URL of the site and ask them to match...they immediately returned to me with a lower price ($440 in my case late yesterday afternoon).

The best deal on the XLR-1 I could find was $419.95 (including s&h)with B&H which would make it some $860 for both D50 and XLR-1
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: oivindi on November 27, 2007, 10:32:45 AM
B&H now has them back in stock for $499.

Btw, has anyone put any (uncompressed) recordings of the internal mics on the web?

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Gutbucket on November 27, 2007, 11:13:58 AM
whatchin', readin', listenin', waitin'..
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 27, 2007, 07:22:41 PM
Got my package today. See attached images of the contents of the shipping box.  Nice to get a Sound Forge copy, even if it is LE version.  But, it should be fine or I can always use the Audacity  ;D

Very initial impressions:
>>Quality build, not quite as heavy as I expected but put together very nice and solid.
>>Packaging for the business level, not consumer off the shevel (like some of the Hi-MDs I have bought from Sony with tons of plastic to cut and fight).
>>Internal mics are easy to position  (will try to post something soon)
>>Easy interface.  I had clock set and recording in less than 2 minutes.

Now, once I get my CK1b's back from Busman with the new subcards, I will be ready for the Xmas Jam or anything else for that matter!

Way to go Sony!

Added a couple of shots compared to the Hi-MDs.  BTW, the RH910 (the one without the OLED) is up for sale.  Make me an offer!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on November 27, 2007, 08:32:05 PM
Do they sell a pleather case for this or do we have to find something that fits?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 27, 2007, 08:52:14 PM
Do they sell a pleather case for this or do we have to find something that fits?
I saw that in japan they offer a leather case for this. I ordered this from BhPhotovideo:
Zing Designs ZICBLB Large Belt Bag (Black)
Just for a bit of protection in my computer bag, or in my coat. When I have the whole bag with my rig, I do not need an extra protection. Once it arrives I will let you know wether it fits.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 27, 2007, 09:04:12 PM
Do they sell a pleather case for this or do we have to find something that fits?
I saw that in japan they offer a leather case for this. I ordered this from BhPhotovideo:
Zing Designs ZICBLB Large Belt Bag (Black)
Just for a bit of protection in my computer bag, or in my coat. When I have the whole bag with my rig, I do not need an extra protection. Once it arrives I will let you know wether it fits.



That does look like the trick, let us know if it fits, otherwise, I have a Crown Royal bag ready  >:D

Here's the BH link for the bag (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/132490-REG/Zing_Designs_572_331_Large_Belt_Bag_Black_.html)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: canaryred2005 on November 27, 2007, 11:06:48 PM
Does anyone know what Sony's warranty on the PCM-D50 is?

Does Sony have Extended Warranties?

cr
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: 69mako on November 28, 2007, 04:22:22 AM
I've been keeping an eye on this thread and so far I'm liking what I'm hearing.  Long batter life, great sounds, etc.  What I haven't heard about yet is seemless spilts.  If it's been mentioned, I missed it and my bad.  Does anyone know?

Mako
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 28, 2007, 06:58:22 AM
The manual states any recording over 2Gb will be split and the next track started automatically.  Whether or not that is totally seamless will be up to testing.  I might try something this weekend if I get the chance on Sunday.

On another note, the manual mentions that only Sony Pro Duo HG and High Speed have been tested and they can't give any test or assurance on any other kind of memory...  Should have my 4Gb HG this week.  Might get a regular Pro Duo4Gb in the spring to take to the Wanee if needed...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 28, 2007, 12:33:56 PM
The D1 track splits at 2GB were seamless.

A friend of mine got his D50 yesterday and is having a problem gettting it to see digi-in at anything other than 16 bit 44.1 or 48k, using a pro studio A/D machine.  Has anyone gotten it to take digi-in at 24/96, and are there any tricks to that?

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 28, 2007, 06:27:43 PM
It came today, I had no real time though to give it a further testing, also my external preamp and mics are not here. I like the feel of it a lot, though, as others mentioned already.
Here a picture, where I put the small windscreens of the C4s I never use over the internal mics, helped a bit actually.
The internal mics seem usable for "snapshots", I try to post two files.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 28, 2007, 06:35:00 PM
here two soundfiles done withe the internals laying on my desk in a horrible boomy room, and held out of the window, you can hear the moving of the leafs under my window (2n floor)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 28, 2007, 06:41:41 PM
Udo-
Either you took that pic looking in the mirror, or you have a collectible d50 with backwards writing ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 28, 2007, 06:51:44 PM
Udo-
Either you took that pic looking in the mirror, or you have a collectible d50 with backwards writing ;D
I have no digital camera and made the picture with my apple macbook, which puts it out this way ...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 28, 2007, 06:55:38 PM
Udo-
Either you took that pic looking in the mirror, or you have a collectible d50 with backwards writing ;D
I have no digital camera and made the picture with my apple macbook, which puts it out this way ...

It gives a mirror image so chicks can use it to adjust their make-up...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: timP on November 28, 2007, 07:05:30 PM
Udo-
Either you took that pic looking in the mirror, or you have a collectible d50 with backwards writing ;D
I have no digital camera and made the picture with my apple macbook, which puts it out this way ...

It gives a mirror image so chicks can use it to adjust their make-up...

not to thread jack, but that is BS^^^ right?
not the real reason it outputs a reverse image?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: prof_peabody on November 28, 2007, 07:13:22 PM
Udo-
Either you took that pic looking in the mirror, or you have a collectible d50 with backwards writing ;D
I have no digital camera and made the picture with my apple macbook, which puts it out this way ...

It gives a mirror image so chicks can use it to adjust their make-up...

not to thread jack, but that is BS^^^ right?
not the real reason it outputs a reverse image?

That is the real reason (sort of).  Most people are used to looking at mirror images of their faces, so by default the software for the integrated webcams in macs mirrors (flips) the image.  I remember catching somebody use their webcam as a mirror a few months ago in an airport.

Edit: flips it for the user.  I haven't used ichat in a while but I think the people at the other end see a normal (non-flipped image).
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on November 28, 2007, 07:32:26 PM
A friend of mine got his D50 yesterday and is having a problem gettting it to see digi-in at anything other than 16 bit 44.1 or 48k, using a pro studio A/D machine.  Has anyone gotten it to take digi-in at 24/96, and are there any tricks to that?

Jeff

This concerns me.  I was going to opt for this recorder because of digi-in and 24/96, but if I can't get 24/96, I might as well opt for a used JB3 in the Yard.

Can any other owners chime in?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 28, 2007, 09:02:12 PM

It gives a mirror image so chicks can use it to adjust their make-up...
[/quote]

This is actually quite funny ... I always wondered why it does that
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 12:16:34 PM
A friend of mine got his D50 yesterday and is having a problem gettting it to see digi-in at anything other than 16 bit 44.1 or 48k, using a pro studio A/D machine.  Has anyone gotten it to take digi-in at 24/96, and are there any tricks to that?

Jeff

This concerns me.  I was going to opt for this recorder because of digi-in and 24/96, but if I can't get 24/96, I might as well opt for a used JB3 in the Yard.

Can any other owners chime in?

The manual on page 28 states that linear PCM 44.1/44.0/96 kHz digital signals can be accepted for digital recording.  I don't have any thing that will give out that signal to test.  Is that pro studio sending out linear PCM signal?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 29, 2007, 02:03:11 PM
So is there a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out? I supposte that's what the v3 w/optimod is. Anything else out there?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 02:10:02 PM
So is there a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out? I supposte that's what the v3 w/optimod is. Anything else out there?

Mic Preamp= Yes
Phantom Power= NO, it's Plug- In power for small condenser types...
Optical Out= Yes, miniplug optical/analog lineout combo
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on November 29, 2007, 02:15:39 PM
So is there a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out? I supposte that's what the v3 w/optimod is. Anything else out there?

Mic Preamp= Yes
Phantom Power= NO, it's Plug- In power for small condenser types...
Optical Out= Yes, miniplug optical/analog lineout combo

I think he meant is there any other external preamp/AD combo options out there besides the V3...
The only other one I can think of is the Edirol UA-5 which people have been using optical into JB3's for a long time with much success.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 29, 2007, 02:17:18 PM
So is there a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out? I supposte that's what the v3 w/optimod is. Anything else out there?

Mic Preamp= Yes
Phantom Power= NO, it's Plug- In power for small condenser types...
Optical Out= Yes, miniplug optical/analog lineout combo
Sorry, I didn't phrase the question correctly...once I own the d50, is there a front-end device that's a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out (for connection to the d50's mini optical in)?
That was my question.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Brian Skalinder on November 29, 2007, 02:18:22 PM
So is there a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out? I supposte that's what the v3 w/optimod is. Anything else out there?

Just for clarity's sake, there's no such thing as an analog mic preamp with a digital output.  The presence of a digital output on an analog preamp, by definition, means it's a preamp and analog-to-digital converter (ADC).  Might seem like a petty distinction, but I'd hate to see a newbie read some of the posts on TS and buy a preamp (without ADC) and expect it to provide a digital output.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 02:19:12 PM
Regarding the CKL-PCMD50 case, I found a couple of pictures, mainly on Japanese sites.  Full compass is offering it as special order for about $50.  Looks like a Palm cover on roids to me.   ;)

Edit: Personally, I like the Zing bag mentioned here already.  Once we know that fits, I hope to get one asap.  The Crown Royal bag is working for now.

2nd Edit:  Here's the CKL-PCMD50 case on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-CKL-PCMD50-Leather-case-for-PCM-D50_W0QQitemZ130178566055QQihZ003QQcategoryZ48688QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: kskreider on November 29, 2007, 02:22:34 PM
Someone needs to hook this puppy up to a optimod V3 and see if it takes 24/96 over that optical connection.  I have an optimod.  I wonder if I can find one of these D50's locally to test out.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Brian Skalinder on November 29, 2007, 02:23:14 PM
I think he meant is there any other external preamp/AD combo options out there besides the V3...
The only other one I can think of is the Edirol UA-5 which people have been using optical into JB3's for a long time with much success.

Already noted:

Grace Design V3
Edirol UA-5

Others:

Apogee AD-1000
Apogee MiniMe
CoreSound Mic2496
Denecke PS-2 + Denecke Inbox (AD-20)
Graham Patten DMIC-20 and DMIC-24

I'm sure there are more...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 29, 2007, 02:23:17 PM
So is there a mic preamp with phantom power and an optical out? I supposte that's what the v3 w/optimod is. Anything else out there?

Just for clarity's sake, there's no such thing as an analog mic preamp with a digital output.  The presence of a digital output on an analog preamp, by definition, means it's a preamp and analog-to-digital converter (ADC).  Might seem like a petty distinction, but I'd hate to see a newbie read some of the posts on TS and buy a preamp (without ADC) and expect it to provide a digital output.
Duly noted.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on November 29, 2007, 02:30:05 PM
I think he meant is there any other external preamp/AD combo options out there besides the V3...
The only other one I can think of is the Edirol UA-5 which people have been using optical into JB3's for a long time with much success.

Already noted:

Grace Design V3
Edirol UA-5

Others:

Apogee AD-1000
Apogee MiniMe
CoreSound Mic2496
Denecke PS-2 + Denecke Inbox (AD-20)
Graham Patten DMIC-20 and DMIC-24

I'm sure there are more...
MiniMe...optical out...you sure?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 29, 2007, 02:47:22 PM
Regarding the CKL-PCMD50 case, I found a couple of pictures, mainly on Japanese sites.  Full compass is offering it as special order for about $50.  Looks like a Palm cover on roids to me.   ;)

Edit: Personally, I like the Zing bag mentioned here already.  Once we know that fits, I hope to get one asap.  The Crown Royal bag is working for now.

2nd Edit:  Here's the CKL-PCMD50 case on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-CKL-PCMD50-Leather-case-for-PCM-D50_W0QQitemZ130178566055QQihZ003QQcategoryZ48688QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

It will arrive today, I will let you know, whether it fits.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 02:50:16 PM
Regarding the CKL-PCMD50 case, I found a couple of pictures, mainly on Japanese sites.  Full compass is offering it as special order for about $50.  Looks like a Palm cover on roids to me.   ;)

Edit: Personally, I like the Zing bag mentioned here already.  Once we know that fits, I hope to get one asap.  The Crown Royal bag is working for now.

2nd Edit:  Here's the CKL-PCMD50 case on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-CKL-PCMD50-Leather-case-for-PCM-D50_W0QQitemZ130178566055QQihZ003QQcategoryZ48688QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem)

It will arrive today, I will let you know, whether it fits.
If at all possible, can you post a picture of the D50 in the Zing bag? (if it fits that is).  Thanks, MS
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on November 29, 2007, 03:51:56 PM
A friend of mine got his D50 yesterday and is having a problem gettting it to see digi-in at anything other than 16 bit 44.1 or 48k, using a pro studio A/D machine.  Has anyone gotten it to take digi-in at 24/96, and are there any tricks to that?

Jeff

This concerns me.  I was going to opt for this recorder because of digi-in and 24/96, but if I can't get 24/96, I might as well opt for a used JB3 in the Yard.

Can any other owners chime in?

The manual on page 28 states that linear PCM 44.1/44.0/96 kHz digital signals can be accepted for digital recording.  I don't have any thing that will give out that signal to test.  Is that pro studio sending out linear PCM signal?

Yes, he's sending a very low jitter pcm signal from $$$$ gear, with a "consumer" setting.  I want to try other gear (like my mic2496) but don't have my D50 yet.  (If I recall correctly, the old Sony M1/D100 DAT took digital in, but would only record 48/16 from the mic2496, not 44.1/16).  Just looking to see if anyone has actually successfully used a 24/96 digital input with the D50, as opposed to simply claims made in the manual.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 04:04:47 PM
This concerns me.  I was going to opt for this recorder because of digi-in and 24/96, but if I can't get 24/96, I might as well opt for a used JB3 in the Yard.
Can any other owners chime in?
Just looking to see if anyone has actually successfully used a 24/96 digital input with the D50, as opposed to simply claims made in the manual.
Jeff
Gotcha, no problem.  I was just looking it up for my own info and posted it.  The only optical out I have is from a DVD player and I don't think it will output that depth/rate.  Since I only have an analog preamp, it's not a concern for me at this time on my low end of the chain  8)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Gutbucket on November 29, 2007, 04:52:45 PM
Gotcha, no problem.  I was just looking it up for my own info and posted it.  The only optical out I have is from a DVD player and I don't think it will output that depth/rate.  Since I only have an analog preamp, it's not a concern for me at this time on my low end of the chain  8)

Just an idea..

If you have or can borrow an R-09 you could patch from it's optical line out into the Sony to test it.

You'd need to play a 24bit file or at least have the R-09 in rec/pause with the appropriate recording bit rate setting and monitor setting in the menu switched ON.  The R-09 will feed a 24/44.1 or 24/48 optical signal out.  No 96khz though.
Title: Dig in to the PCM-D50
Post by: Jppiano on November 29, 2007, 05:44:25 PM
Hi, All

I am WifiJeff's friend who has been having problems with the Dig input - I tried it with a very high end A/D, and it would not lock at 96/24. I have a call to the SONY Pro Division - will report on what they say....

Joe P.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on November 29, 2007, 05:55:37 PM
Even if you don't have an AD converter you can test it out in a simple way. If your PC/Mac have an optical out just set your D-50 to 24/96 and record something. Then transfer the file to your computer. Play it back as 24/96 from your computer. Try and record the playback via an optical cable (from PC/Mac to D-50).

I'm still waiting for my D-50 to arrive so i cannot test anything yet.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 29, 2007, 06:13:52 PM

If at all possible, can you post a picture of the D50 in the Zing bag? (if it fits that is).  Thanks, MS

[/quote]

it fits, but a bit loose. but its perfect for the bit of extra protection in my computer bag that I wanted.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 07:19:21 PM
Thanks Udo!  T+ given earlier today! 
I wonder if the medium Zingo bag would fit?  That's the large right? 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on November 29, 2007, 07:28:44 PM
I think the Medium Zing bag will work. 
It's dimension:  Exterior Dimensions
   4.0 x 6.5 x 1.5" (10 x 16.7 x 3.7 cm) (WxDxH)

Large:
 Exterior Dimensions
   4.5 x 8.25 x 1.5" (11.5 x 20 x 3.7 cm) (WxDxH)

D50 is @3 x 6 x 1.25 inches (WxDxH)

Thanks again for the info and the photos!  Ordering mine tonight from B&H.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 29, 2007, 07:33:15 PM
 
I wonder if the medium Zingo bag would fit?  That's the large right? 
Yes its the large. I don't know about the medium one. I actually put in my I-pod headphones as well, and a self made windscreen, and now I am glad i picked the bigger one.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on November 29, 2007, 07:36:25 PM
Ordering mine tonight from B&H.
Yes, you might better go for the medium one. I got this as well, and its the best accessory yet, if folds totally flat and just 7 bucks ...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/272488-REG/Sunpak_620787_Mini_Flat_Tripod.html
Title: Re: Dig in to the PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on November 29, 2007, 09:33:28 PM
Hi, All

I am WifiJeff's friend who has been having problems with the Dig input - I tried it with a very high end A/D, and it would not lock at 96/24. I have a call to the SONY Pro Division - will report on what they say....

Joe P.

Try knockin' that puppy back to 48/24 and report back.  I bet you get somethin'.   ;)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Arni99 on November 30, 2007, 02:43:20 AM
could someone please measure the mic-input plugin-power-voltage output?
is it 5V or less?
thx a lot ;).
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 01, 2007, 03:47:35 AM
If you've been thinking about buying one of these, this could save you some cash:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95005.0.html

 :)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 01, 2007, 12:47:24 PM
I went out today to Best Buy and used some of those gift certificates.  Got a Gorillapod.  I wasn't sure if it would hold the PCM-D50 but it does and amazingly well!  Check out the shots attached.  Here's the Gorillapod site (http://www.joby.com/products/gorillapod/original/) for more info. 

Now, I just need to work on a windscreen...  funny thing, I probably won't be using the internal mics all that much but the gorillapod is cool.

In the digital input testing world, I dug out my old Turtle Beach Riveria card and slapped into the family computer.  It gives out an optical 48 or 41 signal at 16bit (up to 24bit).  As I toggled the card between 48 and 41, the D50 recognized the difference.  I know that doesn't help much on the 96/24 questions but just testing out the optical input for my own curiosity.  The manual also states if the signal is unstable, it will only record 16 bit and my card states it will send out up to 24 bit signal depth, so not sure if it was unstable or just not sending out 24bit.  Then again, I was only playing a 16 bit track.  Need to play a 24 bit track and try it again.

Back to football on TV....
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on December 03, 2007, 12:38:49 AM
Just returned from a chamber music student concert, where the guy who as supposed to record it semi-professional did not show up (or was not informed or something). I pulled out the sony and the mini tripod and recorded the show on its internal microphones.
Following observations:
- the microphones are not well matched (a few db off), can be fixed in post, though
- they are quieter then I thought - the humming of the light bulbs in the venue was much more present then the pink noise of the mics
- the wheel-style input volume adjustment is a real plus! much more comfortable then pressing some buttons noisily to fix the volume (also I had the chance two times to very slowly adjust the volume during a recording)
- the limiter is excellent, so are the green light / red light input lights that gave me a good idea of where the levels are/should be while sitting a 2 feet away from the recorder.
- rather unusual: hitting the pause button did not start a new track but simply paused in the track

I just listened to the recording and have to say it turned out quite ok (I do not feel ok about posting the recording, should have asked the players before...)
Again - under better conditions I would have the mixpre, my studio projects etc, but I was glad to see, that the machine can actually used by itself in a sort of better then nothing situation. 

Overall: I am glad I got this little "snap-shot" camera, now I have to wait until I get my mixpre and the microphones back to see if it works well with them as well ...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 03, 2007, 02:02:57 PM
Even if you don't have an AD converter you can test it out in a simple way. If your PC/Mac have an optical out just set your D-50 to 24/96 and record something. Then transfer the file to your computer. Play it back as 24/96 from your computer. Try and record the playback via an optical cable (from PC/Mac to D-50).

I'm still waiting for my D-50 to arrive so i cannot test anything yet.

Can someone do the above to confirm to us that it can/cannot accept a 24/96 signal via the optical input? You don't need anything fancy just a computer with optical out and a D50. Thanks!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: udo on December 03, 2007, 04:33:07 PM
sorry, I have no optical cable ....
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jppiano on December 03, 2007, 04:47:55 PM
So far, I have not been able to get the unit to accept 96/24. It WILL output 96/24, though.....

Joe P.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 03, 2007, 04:50:07 PM
sorry, I have no optical cable ....

Thanks...the manual (page 28) clearly states :

DIGITAL RECORDING SIGNALS AND RECORDER SUPPORTS:

Linear PCM 44.1/48/96 kHz digital signals are supported.

When the sample quantifying bit number is 16 bit or less, it is recorded at a 16 bit rate. Otherwise it is recorded at 24 bits.

So I'm sure it's a fault of Sony...maybe a future firmware will fix it.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 03, 2007, 04:56:24 PM
My cheap Turtle Beach will only send out 44.1 or 48.  But, I did order the Digital I/O module to go with my Soundblaster 4 on my work computer here in the home office.  So, I can't test above 48k right now.  That Creative I/O module will give and take optical and coaxial signals up to 96k, so it will be nice to have it for later use any ways...

Creative digital I/O expansion module (http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=16&product=1780)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on December 03, 2007, 05:02:29 PM
Isn't another solution to the testing dilemna...
1. Burn 96/24 to DVD from your computer,
2. Go optical out from DVD player into d50?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on December 03, 2007, 06:28:50 PM
Doorman just handed me the package from Music123...you know what's inside ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 04, 2007, 02:17:51 PM
Just got my Zing medium bag and it fits like a glove, not an OJ fit...easy, snug and so smooth...like it was made for the PCM-D50.  Thanks udo for the recommendation!!!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on December 04, 2007, 03:22:11 PM
PERFECT case. That's definitely what I'll use when I buy the unit come tax return time.
Thanks for the photos.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spoogles on December 04, 2007, 08:32:04 PM
just got my d50. impressed already without even turning it on. sturdy lil box.
now on to the tests.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on December 04, 2007, 09:40:25 PM
Been requested before but I am not sure if any of the new owners plan on using it as a bit bucket....

If it isn't too much trouble, will somebody please feed this a 24bit signal and see if it will accept the signal.  If you have some more time can you check to see if it will choke after a 30 minute run at 24bit at 44.1 or 48khz?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on December 04, 2007, 09:55:28 PM
Shaggy, I posted this ? before, but if you answer I'll run a test.
If I burn a DVD with 24-bit audio and then run it through my DVD player and connect the optical to the d50 and record, will this work?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: timP on December 04, 2007, 09:58:17 PM
Shaggy, I posted this ? before, but if you answer I'll run a test.
If I burn a DVD with 24-bit audio and then run it through my DVD player and connect the optical to the d50 and record, will this work?

only if yr DVD player outputs 24/96

many seem to downsample 24/96DVDs discs down to 24/48
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on December 04, 2007, 10:00:05 PM
Shaggy's question was at 44.1 and 48.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 04, 2007, 10:41:14 PM
Yeah I think even if it outputs 24/48, at this point it will be a  test worth running...
since there isn't much out there yet as far as definitive evidence.  This test may not provide definitive proof either, but it will be a step in the right direction.

I'd say give it a try, and then you can see what sample/bit rate the D50 locks on to.

I wish I had an optical out on my powerbook, because I'd do some tests myself.

edit:  thanks for testing!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 05, 2007, 12:58:45 AM
I pre-ordered it and was hoping to use it with my V3 @24/96, so it's not good if they cannot deliver what they promised. It is clearly stated in their manual p28 that it can record 24/96 via optical in. Even the old MT can do it. They should consider having a recall of all D-50. Looks as if MTII might out perform the D50 at this rate because the MTII can accept large capacity cheap memory cards, smaller/lighter, can take in a 24/96 digital signal etc...  The only reason why I opt for the D50 was it uses AA batteries. I'm suprised how Sony can get away with delivering something less than what they promised  :(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: oivindi on December 05, 2007, 06:04:47 AM
Are there any proper recordings of the D50 with just the internal mics? Field recordings?

I am curious about the stereo image, which I find weak with the Edirol R09. And how much noise ...

Anyone?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 05, 2007, 03:18:07 PM
I think the SBM will only be applied for the 16bit WAVs, it is a 24 > 16bit dithering and noise shaping filter.

Anybody ever use this SBM?  I plan to give this a try during the Christmas Jam.  I have 8Gb (HD+ Memory Stick) but don't plan to run 24bit the whole Jam.  Just wondering if anyone has ever been able to tell the difference?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on December 05, 2007, 06:35:10 PM
Having received my d50 on Monday, I decided to go to Mecca today (that's be B&H) to accessorize. Armed with other's recommendations, Gorillapod, Zing bag and Sunpak flat tripod, I headed over to 34th & 8th. Living in NY, I have bought lots of stuff there, but I'm always amazed at the stuff they have. Literally, there are probably 50 different pouch options. In the end, as you can see, I went with Lowepro. I have other bags from them and I think their stuff is tops - well made, durable, protective and stylish (if that matters). Check the little mesh pouch on the front to hold the Sunpak tripod - sweet. Comes with a shoulder strap (if that's important to you).

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: illconditioned on December 05, 2007, 06:51:34 PM
Here is my "gorilla" version of the AT822.  I took off the stem/handle, did a 4.7k mod on the capsules, and soldered a cord with miniplug.

Here is the result (battery box goes to dual xlrm):
(http://soundmann.com/at822-gorilla.jpg)

  Richard
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spoogles on December 05, 2007, 11:04:23 PM
ok  after playing around with this lil puppy for a day:
Internal mics sound like poop, will do in dire emergency, but tinny and very ambient.
did 24 bit opti feed test.
test equip was dvd-a played on pioneerdv 578a> opti out d50
pased w/ flying colors on everything i threw @ it. 24/44.1 & 24/48,
don't have any 24/96 dvda's lying around, will need to download a show and burn a dvda to test it out.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 05, 2007, 11:14:07 PM
ok  after playing around with this lil puppy for a day:
Internal mics sound like poop, will do in dire emergency, but tinny and very ambient.
did 24 bit opti feed test.
test equip was dvd-a played on pioneerdv 578a> opti out d50
pased w/ flying colors on everything i threw @ it. 24/44.1 & 24/48,
don't have any 24/96 dvda's lying around, will need to download a show and burn a dvda to test it out.

Thanks and T+ for the attempt! Let us know if you succeed in 24/96. If you cannot find a show you can just use your D50 and record something @ 24/96. Then transfer the 24/96 track to a DVD and play it back from my DVD player. So it's very easy.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on December 06, 2007, 03:01:36 AM
ok  after playing around with this lil puppy for a day:
Internal mics sound like poop, will do in dire emergency, but tinny and very ambient.
did 24 bit opti feed test.
test equip was dvd-a played on pioneerdv 578a> opti out d50
pased w/ flying colors on everything i threw @ it. 24/44.1 & 24/48,
don't have any 24/96 dvda's lying around, will need to download a show and burn a dvda to test it out.

+T on that.  How long did you record for? 

Can anyone check to see if the caps screw on and off?

Wished they made a recorder version of this without the mics but that would defeat the 'cool' factor that SONY was ultimately after.... 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on December 06, 2007, 07:21:53 AM
sony is probably after a piece of the market like everyone else.  and everyone else has built in mics too.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on December 06, 2007, 08:12:00 AM
Wish someone could mod this to hack off the internal mics.  ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 06, 2007, 12:00:28 PM
Motobill, thanks for the pics with your new accessories.  That Lowepro case looks nice--does the top flap close all the way?  It looks like the mic guard bars make a good handle for pulling the D50 out of the pouch.  And what's your opinion of the little tripod now that you have it?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 06, 2007, 12:05:47 PM

Internal mics sound like poop, will do in dire emergency, but tinny and very ambient.


I'm sorry to hear that.  Do you think they could be corrected in post-production?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 06, 2007, 12:11:09 PM
Quote
Internal mics sound like poop, will do in dire emergency, but tinny and very ambient.

It's also his opinion.  I plan to record some church worship music this Sunday with these internal mics and will post online.  I think they are well suited for some situations.  More tests with music sources and environments will show us one way or the other.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spoogles on December 06, 2007, 03:12:13 PM
24/96 opti feed works fine on the D50 using same equip as post above. o this looks like a suitable bit bucket for all:)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 06, 2007, 07:57:39 PM
24/96 opti feed works fine on the D50 using same equip as post above. o this looks like a suitable bit bucket for all:)

Thanks!! That really made my day  ;D 

+T for the info!

Parker told me I will get mine sometime next week so I will play around with it soon  :)

Regarding the attached mics...I still think Sony could satisfy everyone and also make some extra money if they made the D50 with detachable mics as accessories. Korg and M-audio did it with their MR-1 and MTII without a problem....and the MT was a sell out when it first came out even with some bad reviews (auto-slip, battery etc).
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: motobill on December 06, 2007, 08:08:43 PM
Motobill, thanks for the pics with your new accessories.  That Lowepro case looks nice--does the top flap close all the way?  It looks like the mic guard bars make a good handle for pulling the D50 out of the pouch.  And what's your opinion of the little tripod now that you have it?
Yes the top flap closes all the way. There is a drawstring with spring lock that when cinched down rests on the mic bars and doesn't allow the flap to fully close. Solution - back it off a tad and put the lock beside the mic bars, then the flap closes all the way. As for the Sunpak tripod, it's good for what it is and only cost $6.95. I don't think it's any worse than the small metal leg tripods and it really folds down flat (as you can see it tucked nicely into the front pocket of the Lowepro).
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 06, 2007, 08:25:29 PM
If you've been thinking about buying one of these, this could save you some cash:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95005.0.html

 :)

Is music123 still the best place to buy one of these?  I'm ready to pull the trigger.   :)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 06, 2007, 09:28:59 PM
If you've been thinking about buying one of these, this could save you some cash:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95005.0.html

 :)

Is music123 still the best place to buy one of these?  I'm ready to pull the trigger.   :)

That $ really burnt a whole in your paypal acct., didn't it?  ;)

Sacrifices.   :lol:
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 06, 2007, 10:27:18 PM
If you've been thinking about buying one of these, this could save you some cash:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95005.0.html

 :)

Is music123 still the best place to buy one of these?  I'm ready to pull the trigger.   :)

Looks like they are $499 everywhere now...
those Music123 sales appear to have ended.
I did see something at musician's friend that you get $65 toward your next order for spending $500...so that may be of value if you're looking for something else too...?

I got mine a couple days ago and like it a lot so far!  Haven't had time to do much testing with it yet, but it feels kind of nice to have a Sony portable recorder again.   :)  After owning a D7, D8, and M1 over ten years or so, I have a soft spot for Sony's.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 06, 2007, 10:42:45 PM
It looks like they still have the 10% off, plus free shipping.  Guitar Center is having the same deal starting tomorrow, 12/07 - 12/09.  That would put it at $440.00 shipped.  Still a decent price, IMO.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 06, 2007, 10:55:36 PM
Thanks for the follow-up Motobill.  I'm looking forward to your user review next. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 06, 2007, 11:35:03 PM
It looks like they still have the 10% off, plus free shipping.  Guitar Center is having the same deal starting tomorrow, 12/07 - 12/09.  That would put it at $440.00 shipped.  Still a decent price, IMO.

Yo, that GC sale looks like the way to go right now.  You may be able to get out of paying tax if you place your order over the phone.
I could be wrong, but I think that 10% off at 123 is just on stuff from their "outlet".  $450 is what I paid, and is a fair price for this box, IMO.
I don't think you'll be disappointed with it.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 06, 2007, 11:38:15 PM
It looks like they still have the 10% off, plus free shipping.  Guitar Center is having the same deal starting tomorrow, 12/07 - 12/09.  That would put it at $440.00 shipped.  Still a decent price, IMO.

Yo, that GC sale looks like the way to go right now.  You may be able to get out of paying tax if you place your order over the phone.
I could be wrong, but I think that 10% off at 123 is just on stuff from their "outlet".  $450 is what I paid, and is a fair price for this box, IMO.
I don't think you'll be disappointed with it.

Does GC take PayPal? 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 07, 2007, 06:56:37 PM
Here's a review from Brad Linder's blog:
http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/12/sony-pcm-d50-review.html
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 07, 2007, 08:11:53 PM
One thing that bugs me about the PCM-D50 is the Hold lock.  It works for the buttons but the recording level wheel is not affected.  So, don't go sticking this in your pocket or fanny pack with the Hold lock thinking it's not going to change the levels on you.  So far, that's the only big beef I have with this unit. 

I won't be using it as a main stealth unit any ways, that's why I am keeping the good ol' Hi-MD; but, I thought those thinking about such options might want to know...  It has decent protection around the level control, so changing it takes a little intention but it would easily change if put away and running, etc. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 07, 2007, 08:12:32 PM
Here's a review from Brad Linder's blog:
http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/12/sony-pcm-d50-review.html
Thanks Brad, great review.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 07, 2007, 08:13:19 PM

Does GC take PayPal? 

Not sure, but it doesn't look like you can order online and get in on the 10% off.

So a couple things I've noticed after playing with the D50 a bit. 
I really like it.  The display, menus, and layout are all really nice.  Meters are quick.

I also do wish that the Hold button disabled the level control.  It also does NOT disable the ON / OFF switch.  Seems like locking out the power switch would be a no-brainer for a Hold switch, but I guess not.
 ???
Also I think someone mentioned that hitting the Pause button while recording did not start a new track, as has become a sort of standard, but the divide button accomplishes this task.  I've confirmed, at least by ear, that the split is seamless. 

The built-in mics do not unscrew.  It looks like they could be removed without too much trouble though.  I think they sound pretty similar in quality to the R-09 internals. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Belexes on December 08, 2007, 10:17:01 AM
Here's a review from Brad Linder's blog:
http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/12/sony-pcm-d50-review.html

Best review so far. Thanks.

Ladies and Gentleman....Don King:

(http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/images/product/front_zoom/adpcm1_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 08, 2007, 02:23:32 PM
I just ordered one!   music123 is still showing them in stock.  Every where else has them back ordered, with a ship date of 1/03/08.

:realhappy:
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on December 08, 2007, 02:36:14 PM
freak!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 08, 2007, 02:39:32 PM
Here's a review from Brad Linder's blog:
http://www.bradlinder.net/2007/12/sony-pcm-d50-review.html

Best review so far. Thanks.

Ladies and Gentleman....Don King:


That's hilarious!
One other thing I did notice from experimenting yesterday was the large amount of handling noise when using the internal mics.  Touching the recorder anywhere on its chassis caused some serious noise in the mics.  If I were using this, in hand, for ENG or something like that, I think I'd be kind of unsatisfied.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 08, 2007, 02:49:55 PM
freak!


  :P  :lol:
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: GDfan on December 08, 2007, 04:49:00 PM
I just ordered one!   music123 is still showing them in stock.  Every where else has them back ordered, with a ship date of 1/03/08.

:realhappy:

Gratz Dan. can't wait to see that deck in action!!!
+T
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 08, 2007, 05:13:00 PM
Quote
That's hilarious!
One other thing I did notice from experimenting yesterday was the large amount of handling noise when using the internal mics.  Touching the recorder anywhere on its chassis caused some serious noise in the mics.  If I were using this, in hand, for ENG or something like that, I think I'd be kind of unsatisfied.
I agree with Jmos and Brad.  You breath hard or move a finger or move across the room and you will get noise when using the internal mics.  If I ever use the internals, it will be with a windscreen and tripod only.  Otherwise, it will be noise.  Do you think the metal body has anything to do with this noise?  How does the H2 or the R09 compare with the internals and handling noise?  How is the D1 in this regard?  Just curious?

mrsoul
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 08, 2007, 05:14:49 PM
I just ordered one!   music123 is still showing them in stock.  Every where else has them back ordered, with a ship date of 1/03/08.

:realhappy:

Minidisco.com is showing 5 in stock at $499 and free shipping.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 08, 2007, 06:03:13 PM
I just ordered one!   music123 is still showing them in stock.  Every where else has them back ordered, with a ship date of 1/03/08.

:realhappy:

Minidisco.com is showing 5 in stock at $499 and free shipping.

Mine came to $455.00 and free shipping.  Use the $45.00 savings towards a 4GB stick.   
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 08, 2007, 06:37:01 PM
Another sale:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95392.0.html

It's out of stock at Musician's Friend, but maybe you can order now and save some $$$...?

PCM-D50 = $499 -  15% = ~$425 shipped.

I think that's the best price you'll find if they'll honor it being out of stock.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 08, 2007, 08:37:00 PM
Another sale:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95392.0.html

It's out of stock at Musician's Friend, but maybe you can order now and save some $$$...?

PCM-D50 = $499 - $30 savings, $469 - 15% = $399.64 shipped.

I think that's the best price you'll find if they'll honor it being out of stock.


Better double check that.  The 15% is for your next order, not your current one.  So the deal is actually $469.00.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 08, 2007, 10:19:00 PM
I haven't tried to place an order, so I can't say for sure, but here is the verbage from the current deal:

"As a special holiday thank you to our best customers, you are invited to take advantage of this exclusive offer! Save 15% off any single item when you place your order by telephone. Call 800-391-8762 between 12:01am PST December 8 and 11:59pm PST December 9 to pocket 15% savings.

Just call us and say “Save 15” to receive your discount."

Some people are reporting having a hard time using both deals at once though...
so even if you can only use the 15% off, that's still a savings of $75 off the D50.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Ozpeter on December 09, 2007, 05:30:25 AM
I can't comment on the D50 but I've not found much of an issue with the H2 concerning handling noise - but others have reported problems.  Frankly I think it's down to how carefully you handle these devices - once you've got a grip on it, don't change your grip.  Pressing buttons is more or less bound to cause some mechanical noise.  I think I'm right in saying that cardioid mics are more likely to exhibit these problems than omnidirectional ones.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on December 09, 2007, 12:49:53 PM
I paid €440 including s&H at SamedayMusic....
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 09, 2007, 05:14:33 PM
Yesterday I recorded a couple sample tracks using the D50's internal mics...

Here's the yousendit link for one of them:
http://download.yousendit.com/E8E246A23F2AC4E5

Available for 7 days.

Recorded in an empty theater, with a 16/44.1 track being played through a Meyer Sound Labs system at close to concert SPL.  I clamped the D50 to a seat in the sweet spot and positioned the mics at about 110 degrees.  The track was normalized to 100%, and you can just start to hear some hiss from the D50.  Doesn't sound bad at all though.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 09, 2007, 06:16:22 PM
Thank you JMOS!

Any idea where unity gain might be on the PCM-D50?  Anybody seen anything online about unity gain for this puppy?

I recorded some with the internal mics today at church.  Not bad at all for my test either.  Thanks again!

Can't wait to break it in at the Christmas Jam this Saturday!  Yahoooo!!!!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 09, 2007, 09:10:10 PM
Another sale:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95392.0.html

It's out of stock at Musician's Friend, but maybe you can order now and save some $$$...?


"Offer Details:
Order now and earn up to $150 on your next order! When place your order of $150 or more today, you’ll receive a coupon for a cash discount that applies the next time you make a purchase. It's a cool way to get maximum mileage out of your gift dollars or to reward your own sound investment in music! Spend – Reward
$150 – $15
$300 – $35
$500 – $65
$1,000 – $150
Valid on new orders placed online between 12/05/2007 and 12/18/2007.
Coupon will be issued via email on 12/28 (valid email address required at time of order)."
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 10, 2007, 05:23:11 PM
Yesterday I recorded a couple sample tracks using the D50's internal mics..
Recorded in an empty theater, with a 16/44.1 track being played through a Meyer Sound Labs system at close to concert SPL. 

Thanks for the recording.  I think it sounds good.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 10, 2007, 06:58:13 PM
Came in from work this afternoon and the post man had delivered the CKL-PCMD50 leather case I ordered from a guy
in Japan on Ebay...      I ordered it about a week ago and it came to Texas without any issue....
So here's the skinny on it....

Its made of leather, the inside is like a dark brown pig skin, it attaches to the D50 with a screw at the
tripod mount.   Very nice and classy design...

As a bonus that I wasn't aware of when I ordered it is that the case has built in magnets so when you open
the case it actually forms into a built in tripod...   it has two settings, one low and the other setting puts the recorder
at a pretty good angle...   maybe 45 degrees or more... the low setting about half of that... 

of course it has a belt loop also....

And two other suprises...   

included in the package is the hand strap that comes with the PCM-D1 recorder....  its a very nice hand strap that serves
two purposes,   one as a hand strap and the other purpose as a cable strain relief when you have the recorder hooked up
to any external devices...  if you'd like to see how it works just goto the Sony web site and download the manual for the
PCM-D1 and it shows how to use the strap for a cable strain relief...  could protect the input/output connectors on the recorder

and finally the last item....  it also comes with a soft pouch...  its just a velvet like material with a draw string at the top....
it'd be good for when you put the recorder into another bag with other items... and just to keep the dust off of the kit.

anyway,  just some more information for your D50.....
I'm very pleased with how the unit is working....   I also placed some MP3 tunes from a couple of CD's on it....   wow it sounds
very clean.... 

here's a pic from the Ebay site of the carry case...  doesn't show the strap or soft pouch though...

 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 10, 2007, 10:33:23 PM
Nice review of the leather case.  Any chance you could post a couple of your own photos to illustrate the features?  Thanks.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 10, 2007, 10:48:30 PM
Thanks....  I'll try to get some and put them up tomorrow...

Does anyone know what kind of cable I would need to interface with
the optical in/out...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Gutbucket on December 11, 2007, 12:11:18 AM
^^^^
1/8" miniplug S/PDIF optical cable.

Here's (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TMOC-1) one at SP's site, depending on what termination you need on the other end.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 11, 2007, 08:56:04 AM
Came in from work this afternoon and the post man had delivered the CKL-PCMD50 leather case I ordered from a guy
in Japan on Ebay...      I ordered it about a week ago and it came to Texas without any issue....
So here's the skinny on it....


here's a pic from the Ebay site of the carry case...  doesn't show the strap or soft pouch though...

 

Was this from the Buy from Japan seller?  Thanks for posting the additional pictures and the seller info.

I got my Digital I/O module for my Sound Blaster Audigy yesterday.  No problems with 96/24 on the optical input.  It didn't lower down to 16 bit like it did on the signal from the cheap Turtle Beach on my other computer.  So, it seems to be fo' real.  Nice to have a way to digital out again.  Not bad for $14 from Creative on ebay + shipping. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 11, 2007, 07:12:15 PM
I wonder if the D50 can see the 20 bit signal from any of these:

SBM-1
Denecke AD20
GP DMIC 20

Now that would be cool if it did.  Real cool. 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 11, 2007, 08:33:37 PM
Ok,  here are the pics of the case...  sorry I'm having to post more than once to get all
of the pics up... 

Here's the first one...  shows the case/strap/pouch...    the pouch is made of a material
that is perfect for cleaning the screen/unit...

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 11, 2007, 08:39:56 PM
Here is the back side of the case... click on pic for bigger size...

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 11, 2007, 08:41:32 PM
Here is the case in the tripod mode, 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 11, 2007, 08:42:17 PM
Here is the back side of the case... click on pic for bigger size...

Very cool pictures, thanks!
I have a smaller version of that bag for my Hi-MDs.  I would really like to buy just the bag and the strap if possible.  Don't see it anywhere online.  But, if you come across it anywhere, post it!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 11, 2007, 08:47:07 PM
This pic shows the hand strap when used as a cable strain relief to protect the
units input connector...  this pic shows the cable routing and the two clamps
that hold the cable...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 11, 2007, 08:53:06 PM
Mr Soul...   as a noob,  I'd like to ask the question of the Digital I/O...

I have the D50 and the Digital I/O...  I don't have a cable for the connection... should I go with
the optical or the coaxial connector on the digital I/O..   whats the difference as to quality?
can you point me to the cable I need...

and what program do I use with the Soundblaster to interface with the D50??

what do I gain by using the Digital I/O over the USB connection ???

any and all information is greatly accepted

Thanks
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 11, 2007, 09:20:19 PM
Mr Soul...   as a noob,  I'd like to ask the question of the Digital I/O...

I have the D50 and the Digital I/O...  I don't have a cable for the connection... should I go with
the optical or the coaxial connector on the digital I/O..   whats the difference as to quality?
can you point me to the cable I need...

and what program do I use with the Soundblaster to interface with the D50??

what do I gain by using the Digital I/O over the USB connection ???

any and all information is greatly accepted

Thanks

I don't think there is much difference between the signal quality of the optical vs. coaxial. 
You can get an optical cable for less than $10 just about any where online.  Make sure it has the miniplug adapter to fit that 1/8 connection. 
If you have the Soundblaster hooked up to the Digital I/O module from creative, you should be good.  Can you see a red light in the Optical out if you remove the plastic cap?  If so, then the optical signal is working.  To change the settings, I go into the Creative Audio Console program.  See attached.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 11, 2007, 09:22:39 PM

what do I gain by using the Digital I/O over the USB connection ???
Thanks
For upload, go with the USB, it's faster and there should be no difference.  Plus, a whole lot easier!  No need to worry about any settings or levels.  I plan to use the I/O more for the output to the PCM-D50 when I want to copy something digitally, etc.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 11, 2007, 10:27:30 PM
what application do you use for the optical download... my sound blaster came with several
different applications...

I see the red light on the digital I/o on the output side...

also...  as you know there isn't a left/right type of connection....   will the optical
connection be in stereo ??? 

like I said, I'm a noob  ;-)'
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 12, 2007, 12:23:22 AM
Thanks Dixter for posting those photos with the leather case.  It looks really nice--even better than I expected, and the leather looks slightly padded.  Is the angled "tripod mode" setting the higher or lower angle? 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 12, 2007, 06:32:23 AM
what application do you use for the optical download... my sound blaster came with several
different applications...

I see the red light on the digital I/o on the output side...

also...  as you know there isn't a left/right type of connection....   will the optical
connection be in stereo ??? 

like I said, I'm a noob  ;-)'
If you set the optical to send out the signal (use the Audio Console I showed in the last picture) then you D50 will pick up the signal sent from your PC regardless of what program you are using to play.  Set the Bit Accurate to Yes so the signal out from your PC will be what you want. 

There is no L/R because it sends the stereo signal as 0 and 1's and that will be in stereo as long as the source is stereo.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 12, 2007, 07:17:33 AM
MR Soul,   Thanks for the info....  just waiting on the cable to show up that I ordered
and then I get to play around....

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 12, 2007, 07:20:31 AM
Thanks Dixter for posting those photos with the leather case.  It looks really nice--even better than I expected, and the leather looks slightly padded.  Is the angled "tripod mode" setting the higher or lower angle? 

That pic shows it in the higher angle ( about 45 degrees).....  the lower angle is about half of that....
and of course there is always the option of just laying it down flat...   ^-^
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 12, 2007, 12:05:42 PM
That pic shows it in the higher angle ( about 45 degrees).....  the lower angle is about half of that....

Dixter, after seeing your pics and simulating the case with a piece of paper, I think I see how it might fold to get that lower angle.  Thanks again.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 12, 2007, 09:41:37 PM
That pic shows it in the higher angle ( about 45 degrees).....  the lower angle is about half of that....

Dixter, after seeing your pics and simulating the case with a piece of paper, I think I see how it might fold to get that lower angle.  Thanks again.

Here's a pic of the low angle....

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 12, 2007, 09:47:44 PM
A little off topic here but for those that like to use earphones...   one of my co-workers
came in this morning and wanted to try out his new Shure E3 phones on the D50 as
I also have a few mp3 songs there also.... he loves the sound from the D50/E3 combo....

It seems that Shure is changing packaging and renameing the phones....

if you search on the net you can now find the Shure E3 phones for around $100....
at least until they last.... those phones were listed at $214 a while back....

They looked realy well built and the reviews I read seem to all like them...

anyway... not a bad deal if you wanted to use these on the D50...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: BlackCrowe on December 13, 2007, 03:16:36 AM
Well...when it comes down to earphones I still haven`t found any better (and better looking) than the Bang and Olufsen A8...
(http://www.etest-heimkino.de/images/produkte/9706_g.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Bang-Olufsen-Earphones/dp/B000QW70AK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1197533690&sr=8-3

Not exactly cheap but I`m still to find a better piece...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 13, 2007, 02:37:01 PM

Here's a pic of the low angle....


Dixter, despite my simulations with paper folding, I hadn't thought of that configuration, which seems so obvious after seeing your photo.   I think if Sony made this case available in the US they'd sell a lot.  You took some great product shots by the way.  Thanks...
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: H₂O on December 13, 2007, 06:24:04 PM
I wonder if the D50 can see the 20 bit signal from any of these:

SBM-1
Denecke AD20
GP DMIC 20

Now that would be cool if it did.  Real cool. 

What about the AD1000?  ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 13, 2007, 07:06:44 PM
Outrageous,    Thanks for the comp.....   normally I dont' purchase items from overseas but I'm starting to see
a pattern of items being offered in Japan and never offered here in the states.....  so I went ahead and went
with Ebay and the seller...  there's only two on there....

I had to use the same method when I purchased the Canon G9 camera... for some reason Canon will not release
the Camera case here in the States...

maybe its a import thing with leather products??? 
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 14, 2007, 11:12:18 AM
... for some reason Canon will not release
the Camera case here in the States...

maybe its a import thing with leather products??? 

That's an interesting theory.  I have the G7 and I hadn't seen any cases for it in the US either.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 14, 2007, 07:57:32 PM
Back to the topic of D50

Anyone here got the remote for this recorder or it is all preorder? I saw some in ebay all from sellers in Japan.

Another thing...anyone ordered their D50 from sonicsense? I'm still waiting for mine from them  :( everyone seem to have received their D50 except me.  :(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 14, 2007, 08:12:10 PM
I wonder if the D50 can see the 20 bit signal from any of these:

SBM-1
Denecke AD20
GP DMIC 20

Now that would be cool if it did.  Real cool. 

What about the AD1000?  ;D

This is from the D50 manual on page 28 referring to digital recording:

"When the sampling quantifying bit number is 16 bits or less, or unstable, it is recorded at the 16 bit rate.  Otherwise, it is recorded at 24 bits." 

So I guess it would depend on if the 20 bit signal is considered "unstable" or not, by the recorder.


Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 15, 2007, 08:43:19 AM
OK,  back on topic....     

Is there anything possible that could be inside the XLR-1 package that would even suggest
the price of around $500 is worth that price tag??

Just whats in the box???    I'd love to get one but the price is killing me...
I know you can get them a little cheaper but not by much...

Title: Update to the issue of the digital input & some info on the 744t.....
Post by: Jppiano on December 16, 2007, 11:24:11 AM
So I had a chat with Sony and also ordered a 2nd unit, which is behaving the same as the 1st one with my optical feeds (ie. wont take 96/24 from all my high end gear). So I finally talked to my tech, who seemed to think that the optical wavelength may be incompatible. However, checking the specs for the D50 confirm that it adheres to the standard (660 nw +/- 30) and an input sensitivity of -27 dbm. We are totally puzzled by this, and also by the fact that the unit did a 48K recording when I fed it a 96K signal that sounds fine! Can the guy who was successfully able to feed 96/24 into the D50 please tell me what unit was used? Thanks!

Another thing: some testing that we did the other day with the Sound Devices 744T has confirmed what I had suspected for quite a while - the 2 stereo outputs are 90 degrees out of phase when playing back from the machine, but not when monitoring thru the unit (either 2 or 4 channels). Although I realize that most people just drag the files to a workstation, this is a serious problem for those of us who want to mix 4 channels externally, and something that SD ought to fix.......

Joe P.

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: rowjimmy on December 16, 2007, 11:35:24 AM
If I may, what "High End Gear" are you using?
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 16, 2007, 11:59:22 AM
Joe, Have you ever tried feeding your D50 with a 24/96 signal from a low end gear like a DVD player or your computer? Some of the tapers here tested it using DVD players or using computers with optical out.

Another thing, maybe it's due to batches? I know all food or sensitive products have batch number with cat#....Maybe your 2nd D50 was from the same batch (likely since it is from the same vendor). Maybe it's just a bad batch, which needs a recall.

Good luck!

I should be getting mine from sonic sense soon, I hope  :'(
Title: Optical feeding to the D50
Post by: Jppiano on December 16, 2007, 12:17:21 PM
OK, so this is what I have tried:

WEISS ADC1-MK2
PRISM AD2
DCS 904
DCS 972

All very high end gear....

Joe P.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Outrageous on December 16, 2007, 05:45:46 PM
Is there anything possible that could be inside the XLR-1 package that would even suggest
the price of around $500 is worth that price tag??

Just whats in the box??? 


There was some discussion of this topic further back, especially starting around post #118 ( http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92069.105.html ).  I can't say I exactly followed the technicalities except that apparently not all converter/phantom power boxes for XLR to stereo mini-plug are going to work with every mike.  Presumably the XLR-1 is high quality and it also mates with the D50.  But personally I'd think about getting the Fostex FR2-LE for not much more money.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Jamos on December 16, 2007, 06:28:45 PM
Is there anything possible that could be inside the XLR-1 package that would even suggest
the price of around $500 is worth that price tag??

Just whats in the box???


There was some discussion of this topic further back, especially starting around post #118 ( http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92069.105.html ).  I can't say I exactly followed the technicalities except that apparently not all converter/phantom power boxes for XLR to stereo mini-plug are going to work with every mike.  Presumably the XLR-1 is high quality and it also mates with the D50.  But personally I'd think about getting the Fostex FR2-LE for not much more money.

I would suggest looking for a Denecke PS-2 dual phantom power supply.  You can get a 3.5mm jack put on the output of the PS-2 that will allow you to easily mate with the D50.  I think they are $150 new, and can often be found used for less.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Nick's Picks on December 17, 2007, 07:48:01 AM
as discussed before, the "unbalancing" of the signal, apparently done w/a lot of electronics in there is what makes it so $$.

a PS2, Hosa, Rolls..etc, they all have balanced output, which the sony can't take.  You can "unbalance" it by a not-so sophisticated method of building a cable that grounds out the - signal.  but that's not the best way to do it and some microphones might not work w/this method.

I'm just regurgitating what iv'e read elsewhere in this thread.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on December 17, 2007, 03:04:59 PM
I just got in my PCM D50, and immediately tried the digital-in to see what data points I could add to this confused picture.  I fed it with a 24/96 signal from a Core Sound Mic2496 optical out.  The D50 read 48/24 but the second hand was racing, and sure enough on playback I heard my test speech played back at 1/2 speed (and down an octave, of course).  I have not yet tried editing the wave header, but my guess is that I will have an okay 24/96 recording.  This is a kludgy work-around for something that should function correctly out of the box.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: SClassical on December 17, 2007, 07:19:07 PM
Same problem with the MTII

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95661.0.html

Lets see if Sony can fix the problem faster than M-Audio. Hope Sony wins the race because people expect more from Sony (but M-audio seems to fix most of the old MT problems quite fast with regular firmware updates). I'm really surprised these companies don't check these things before releasing it to the public.

Mine will arrive next week Parker said :(
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 17, 2007, 09:33:24 PM
Just got the digital optical cable from the mail box....

Took a little fiddling around with the settings on my computer but I was able to
input to the D50 from my computer at 96/24
and I output back to the computer at 96/24 and recorded to the hard drive with
the pre-recorded files and the built in Mikes...

So I guess its working fine for that configuration... 

Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: Dixter on December 17, 2007, 10:23:53 PM
Also just in case you wanted to get the wind screen,  B&H just got some in today....

Part number is AD-PCM1 WINDSCREEN f/PCM-D1/D50

I know its not cheap, its Sony      
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: WiFiJeff on December 18, 2007, 03:49:35 PM
Just for the heck of it, I tried my 8GB pro duo card in the D50.  In the D1, the 8GB card only showed about 1 hr 45 minutes of record time at 24/96 (while a 4GB card shows 1 hour 57 minutes), but the D50 shows almost 4 hours, even though this is not an "HG" version of the memory stick pro duo.  I ran it twice, first time it shut down after an hour and half when I pushed the "display" button, the second time I just let it run and got four files, 3 of them 2.1 GB and the last 1.575 GB, I am transferring to my computer now but this looks like good news for the HG version, even if the non-HG version runs a bit flaky it CAN do four hours with seamless splits.

Jeff
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: edtyre on December 18, 2007, 04:34:56 PM
Any recordings with this yet?  I'm curious to hear how it sounds
compared to the Korg and Edirol via analog in.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 20, 2007, 07:19:16 PM
Mine arrived today!!!    :realhappy:

Maiden voyage will be DTB in Boca next week.   ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: easy jim on December 20, 2007, 07:24:09 PM
Mine arrived today!!!    :realhappy:

Maiden voyage will be DTB in Boca next week.   ;D

w/ the 568s and aerco I hope  ;D
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: mrsoul on December 20, 2007, 08:40:44 PM
Mine arrived today!!!    :realhappy:

Maiden voyage will be DTB in Boca next week.   ;D

Right on, right on, right on!  I hope to have some of my stuff from the Xmas Jam up this weekend.  The battery life was great during the Jam.  I changed before Hornsby with 50% still showing just because I didn't know how long the standard alkaline would last but probably could have easily done 8 hours at 16/44.1. 

Enjoy the dTb in FLA!
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: spyder9 on December 20, 2007, 09:59:33 PM
Mine arrived today!!!    :realhappy:

Maiden voyage will be DTB in Boca next week.   ;D

Right on, right on, right on!  I hope to have some of my stuff from the Xmas Jam up this weekend.  The battery life was great during the Jam.  I changed before Hornsby with 50% still showing just because I didn't know how long the standard alkaline would last but probably could have easily done 8 hours at 16/44.1. 

Enjoy the dTb in FLA!

+T   Can't wait to give it a run.  Gonna pickup a fresh 4 pack of Energizer 2650mah rechargeables tomorrow.  Bet it will run for 10 hours.
Title: Re: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50
Post by: shaggy on December 20, 2007, 10:55:13 PM
25 pages, it's new thread time ladies and gentlemen:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,95964.0.html