Taperssection.com

Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: goodcooker on September 20, 2016, 02:40:00 PM

Title: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: goodcooker on September 20, 2016, 02:40:00 PM
The second thread is out to 27 pages so...


Zoom F8 thread part 1
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172643.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172643.0)

Part 2
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175697.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175697.0)

In depth review of Zoom F8 by tonedeaf
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175264.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175264.0)

Product page from Zoom with marketing speak and links to additional info
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder (https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder)

You can download the Zoom F8 Firmware v2.00 here: https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads (https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads)



Features at a glance -

 •8-channel/10-track field audio recorder/mixer
 •8 discrete inputs with locking Neutrik XLR/TRS combo connectors
 •Compact and lightweight aluminum chassis, weighing just 2 pounds (without batteries)
 •High quality mic preamps with up to 75 dB gain, less than -127 dBu EIN, and +4 dB line inputs
 •Support for up to 24-bit/192 kHz recording as well as 96 kHz, 88.2 kHz, 48 kHz, and 44.1 kHz, plus 47.952 kHz/48.048 kHz for HD video compatibility; 16-/24-bit resolution
 •Accurate Time Code (0.2 ppm) I/O on standard BNC connectors; dropframe/non-drop formats with Jam Sync
 •Three different power supply options: 8x AA batteries, external DC battery pack with Hirose connector, or 12V AC adapter (AA’s and DC battery pack not included)
 •Automatic switching of power source from DC to batteries at user-defined voltage levels
 •Dedicated gain control knob, 6-segment LED level meter, and PFL/Solo switch for each channel
 •Phantom power (+48V/+24V) on every input
 •Advanced onboard limiters for input and output
 •High pass filter, phase invert, and Mid-Side decoder
 •Input delay of up to 30 msec per channel / output delay of up to 10 frames per output
 •Compatible with Zoom microphone capsules; optional extender cable enables remote positioning
 •Dual mini-XLR (TA3) balanced Main Outs plus ⅛" stereo mini-jack Sub Out
 •Dedicated headphone output (100mW) with front panel volume control
 •2.4" full-color backlit LCD with monochrome mode
 •Dedicated PFL display with viewable trim settings
 •Dual SD/SDHC/SDXC card slots, up to 512 GB each
 •Records in BWF-compliant WAV or MP3 file formats
 •Support for extensive metadata (BWF and iXML); input time, date, project, scene number, etc.
 •Built-in slate mic/slate tone with front panel switch
 •Built-in tripod mount; camera mount adapter also included
 •Use as an 8-in/4-out USB audio interface (@ 96 kHz)
 •Free Zoom F8 Control App for iOS allows wireless remote control, file renaming, and metadata entry


Firmware 2.0 update

1.   Added Trim Knob option that enables adjusting fader/pan settings with input trim knobs.
2.   Added the function of moving the previously recorded take to the new FALSE TAKE folder.
3.   Expanded Function Shortcuts as well as Shortcut List Menu.
4.   Added the function of selecting alphabet letters for the scene number.
5.   Added Trim Link function for adjusting the input levels of multiple tracks simultaneously.
6.   Added the function of editing track name in Meta data.
7.   Added the function of showing track names on the level meters.
8.   Added the function that enables selecting “Scene_***” for the format of take name.
9.   Added the function of adjusting L/R track volume.
10.   Added SOLO function that enables monitoring signals of specific tracks only during playback.
11.   Added sound report function for exporting CSV format file including recorded take information, etc.
12.   Changed the location of Next Take menu on MENU>REC>Next Take to MENU>META DATA (for next take).
13.   Added the function of applying edits of the selected card to the other card when two SD cards are inserted.
14.   Changed the track order of Poly WAV recorded files from Tr1, Tr2, …, Tr8, L, R to L, R, Tr1, Tr2, …, Tr8.

You can download the Zoom F8 Firmware v2.00 here: https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads (https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: goodcooker on September 20, 2016, 02:42:56 PM
Still haven't pulled the trigger on one of these yet but I am still interested. Mainly for the track count, preamp sound and remote control.

Most of my taping opportunities are 4 tracks or less so a deck like this would be sort of overkill for me but I see myself getting one this year.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: robin746 on September 20, 2016, 03:11:01 PM
If you read back through the Audio stream on my blog, I have quite a few articles now on the F8. A bit late for early adopters, but then again I am not one!

In particular I cover powering options in some detail. I also have a list of firmware suggestions and a list of improvements that could come with a new F8 Pro model. (This has been noted by Zoom themselves, and so... fingers are crossed.)

Check it out:
http://www.theatreofnoise.com/search/label/audio
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on September 20, 2016, 08:35:19 PM
Most of my taping opportunities are 4 tracks or less so a deck like this would be sort of overkill for me but I see myself getting one this year.

Then the cheaper Zoom F4 is right for you?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: goodcooker on September 20, 2016, 11:04:47 PM
Most of my taping opportunities are 4 tracks or less so a deck like this would be sort of overkill for me but I see myself getting one this year.

Then the cheaper Zoom F4 is right for you?

Not at all really. Why plunk down 650 for a four channel deck when I can do basically the same functions with my current $150 four channel recorder. For another $350 you get a color screen, twice the channels and remote operation. I plan to wire up an 8 channel insert snake and make a few bucks doing multitrack live recordings for the locals...you know for spare change and a few drinks and whatnot.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: stevetoney on September 20, 2016, 11:26:46 PM
For what it costs and with its small form factor I kinda think of the extra channels as bonus channels rather than overkill channels. Semantics perhaps but not really.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: robin746 on September 21, 2016, 10:18:14 AM
The value proposition will be different for everyone. Had the F4 been released first, I would no doubt have bought it instead, since the savings are significant. I don't need to mix on the recorder and don't own anything with the Apple name on it, so the Bluetooth app connectivity is useless... to me. Most of the time 4 channels is plenty, and the improved physical interface would be very welcome.

All depends, really, on what you need a recorder for.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: spyder9 on September 21, 2016, 10:40:34 AM
How's does this thing compare to a R-44, sound-wise?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: mepaca on September 21, 2016, 11:53:49 AM
How's does this thing compare to a R-44, sound-wise?
My F8 preamps are much cleaner and quieter than my r-44. No comparison really.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: robin746 on September 21, 2016, 01:38:16 PM
The R-44 always had quite poor pre-amps. EIN is measured at -113 dBu (A weighted). Zoom F4/F8 are measured at -127 dBu.

Zoom needs to be compared to Sound Devices, Zaxcom, Sonosax, and Nagra. Unfortunately I don't have the resources myself to do that. Anyone?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dogmusic on September 21, 2016, 04:42:39 PM
Anyone?

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-production-forum/1049931-zoom-f8-vs-sound-devices-722-a.html
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: robin746 on September 21, 2016, 07:41:55 PM
To save people the bother of clicking through, that discussion is about the following comparison, originally in German (http://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/fieldrecorder-klangvergleich-zoom-f8-und-h4n-vs-sound-devices/), here translated (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soundandrecording.de%2Fequipment%2Ffieldrecorder-klangvergleich-zoom-f8-und-h4n-vs-sound-devices%2F&edit-text=). You'll need to check out the German page for the embedded sounds.

Stephan Lembke concludes:

"As hoped, the sound difference between the Zoom F8 and the Sound Devices 722 is quite marginal and aspects such as the choice of microphones and their placement have a bigger factor for the final result sound recording."
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on September 21, 2016, 08:51:26 PM
To save people the bother of clicking through, that discussion is about the following comparison, originally in German (http://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/fieldrecorder-klangvergleich-zoom-f8-und-h4n-vs-sound-devices/), here translated (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soundandrecording.de%2Fequipment%2Ffieldrecorder-klangvergleich-zoom-f8-und-h4n-vs-sound-devices%2F&edit-text=). You'll need to check out the German page for the embedded sounds.

Stephan Lembke concludes:

"As hoped, the sound difference between the Zoom F8 and the Sound Devices 722 is quite marginal and aspects such as the choice of microphones and their placement have a bigger factor for the final result sound recording."

The film / TV sound tests like one you linked can be fun, but don't give those of us who record music much to go on.  I'm waiting for someone to do a true comparison like you're suggesting in an actual concert situation, using a matched pair of mics and in [gasp!] stereo.  Why is it that mic manufacturers always put out lots of music samples, but you almost never see that with recorders, even at the professional level?  Maybe it's because of the bold part of your quote above.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: robin746 on September 22, 2016, 06:52:41 AM
The film / TV sound tests like one you linked can be fun, but don't give those of us who record music much to go on.  I'm waiting for someone to do a true comparison like you're suggesting in an actual concert situation, using a matched pair of mics and in [gasp!] stereo.  Why is it that mic manufacturers always put out lots of music samples, but you almost never see that with recorders, even at the professional level?  Maybe it's because of the bold part of your quote above.

Your point is well taken; sample music recordings would be useful. Since that is not my area, I will have to pass on to other readers.

But music is relatively easy to record and is a lot more forgiving than trying to capture nature sounds, ambiance, and so on. For one thing, music can tell us nothing about the self-noise of a microphone or recorder, since that is well masked. For another, the quality of a music recording is determined largely by the quality of the music. Our natural tendency to judge that first -- on aesthetics, performance, and so on. So sometimes even poor fidelity concert recordings are lauded.

This is why even professionals were happy using previous generation hand-held recorders which would be completely unusable for my applications. But for dialogue, music etc. they were adequate.

Finally, a point of fact: the recordings linked to are certainly in stereo. The author used a pair of Sennheiser MKH 8040 mics in ORTF configuration. In fact, it seems he had two pairs, one for each recorder. Not many people have four 8040s on hand!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: goodcooker on September 22, 2016, 07:05:16 AM

Not many people have four 8040s on hand!


Lots of members here have multiple pairs of high end microphones.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: H₂O on September 22, 2016, 07:55:24 AM
If you want a true comparison wouldn't running a single pair of mics with a pair of XLR splitters afterwards in the 2 different recorders be a good enough comparison

I have done this before to compare pre amps and found it pretty easy to setup and provide good results.

As long as only one of the preamps/decks supplies phantom you should be good to go
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on September 22, 2016, 06:46:25 PM
The film / TV sound tests like one you linked can be fun, but don't give those of us who record music much to go on.  I'm waiting for someone to do a true comparison like you're suggesting in an actual concert situation, using a matched pair of mics and in [gasp!] stereo.  Why is it that mic manufacturers always put out lots of music samples, but you almost never see that with recorders, even at the professional level?  Maybe it's because of the bold part of your quote above.

Your point is well taken; sample music recordings would be useful. Since that is not my area, I will have to pass on to other readers.

But music is relatively easy to record and is a lot more forgiving than trying to capture nature sounds, ambiance, and so on. For one thing, music can tell us nothing about the self-noise of a microphone or recorder, since that is well masked. For another, the quality of a music recording is determined largely by the quality of the music. Our natural tendency to judge that first -- on aesthetics, performance, and so on. So sometimes even poor fidelity concert recordings are lauded.

This is why even professionals were happy using previous generation hand-held recorders which would be completely unusable for my applications. But for dialogue, music etc. they were adequate.

While you may be right that as listeners we gravitate towards the quality of the performance first, I think you're grossly over-generalizing, especially in the bold sections above.

I have great respect for people like you who do ambient recording, but to say "music is relatively easy to record"... seriously???  Also, for the type of quiet acoustic music in quiet spaces that some of us do, self noise of a recorder and/or microphone can definitely come into play and be audible.  For your recordings you may need a recorder to have lower noise at high gain levels, but some of us record music that has very similar requirements.  It wasn't until I was able to get my current equipment that I've been somewhat satisfied with the gain vs noise.

Also I'm not sure what professional music recording engineers you know that use handheld recorders, but all of the ones I've encountered use Sound Devices, Nagra, JoeCo on location gigs - definitely not cheap handheld recorders.

Finally, a point of fact: the recordings linked to are certainly in stereo. The author used a pair of Sennheiser MKH 8040 mics in ORTF configuration. In fact, it seems he had two pairs, one for each recorder. Not many people have four 8040s on hand!

Thanks for the clarification - I wasn't commenting on the recordings on that German site, but all of the other demo videos I've seen of the F8 which are using a single lav or boom mic and was just expressing frustration that no one seems to think it's worthwhile to demonstrate how these units perform with music.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on September 22, 2016, 06:59:31 PM
If you want a true comparison wouldn't running a single pair of mics with a pair of XLR splitters afterwards in the 2 different recorders be a good enough comparison

I have done this before to compare pre amps and found it pretty easy to setup and provide good results.

As long as only one of the preamps/decks supplies phantom you should be good to go

That's pretty much what I'm waiting for someone to do.  Either that or 4 matched mics, 2 identical arrays stacked directly on top as is done for mic shootouts.

Something I've wondered about for a while with a splitter setup is if having only one preamp supplying P48 could influence the comparison.  I'm thinking about if one unit had an iffy / off-spec phantom supply, or one that leaked noise into the signal path where you obviously wouldn't hear it when phantom was disabled.  I think I remember reading here that some of the older cheap Zoom handhelds had phantom issues, though I'm sure they have sorted that out on the F8.  My OCD self would want to run two takes, with a different deck supplying phantom for each take.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: H₂O on September 22, 2016, 08:30:54 PM
I have only done this with high quality pre-amps that have adequate protection and provide solid 48v phantom


I know Mark Nutter of Sonic Sense also did this a lot back in the late 90's - early 00's when he ran comparisons of preamps and to experiment with various mic/pre-amp combos

Others have done this as well

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on October 03, 2016, 11:10:13 PM
Hey, does someone here have the email address for efksound3d who makes the extended knobs for the F8?  I don't see it on his Facebook page (of course I could have missed it) and I need it for PayPal.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on October 04, 2016, 09:59:13 AM
Hey, does someone here have the email address for efksound3d who makes the extended knobs for the F8?  I don't see it on his Facebook page (of course I could have missed it) and I need it for PayPal.

Thanks!

Please contact ekfsound3d via Facebook.

Edited by BSkalinder to remove email address at the request of efksound3d.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on October 04, 2016, 05:00:14 PM
Hey, does someone here have the email address for efksound3d who makes the extended knobs for the F8?  I don't see it on his Facebook page (of course I could have missed it) and I need it for PayPal.

Thanks!

Please contact ekfsound3d via Facebook.

Edited by BSkalinder to remove email address at the request of efksound3d.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on October 05, 2016, 06:55:56 PM
B&h sent out the daily deals email and it has a unique code in it for 100$ off

If anyone is looking to buy one id be happy to give you my code, not sure it works like that as it says "my individual code"
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: vwmule on October 07, 2016, 11:59:51 AM
I have a code, too, if anyone wants to try.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on October 18, 2016, 12:24:33 PM
New knobs for the F8.  Service was really quick.  He printed them on a Friday, shipped them on a Monday (from Spain) and I received them the following Monday.  They fit on well.  I used a silver sharpie to highlight the edge of the position marker on each knob.  We will have to see how they work in operation.  I have small hands, so the original knobs were not really a problem for me.  These do look nicer however.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on October 18, 2016, 01:52:51 PM
I also have the knobs. My suggestion is to use the two sided sticky tape the guy who prints these suggests (or something similar). I love the knobs but they can come off while rustling around in your bag etc. Mine have been reliable with the tape...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on October 18, 2016, 02:11:08 PM
I was wondering whether there was a more reliable means of attaching the knobs, besides friction.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: OS_Taper on January 08, 2017, 03:20:25 PM
Didn't see it in the thread, Firmware version 3.0 is now available for download and installation.

Functions added in Version 3.0
Monitoring input signals of specific tracks without recording
Saving multiple settings for signals sent to headphone output (Headphone Routing)
Setting the keys held (Key Hold Target)
Backing up and loading settings (Backup/Load Settings)
Setting the level meter reference (Reference Level)
Showing total recording time during long recording periods (Time Counter)
Using an FRC-8 as a controller (Connect)
Setting the type of keyboard connected to FRC-8  (Keyboard Type)
Setting user keys used by FRC-8 (User Keys)
Setting the power supply used by the FRC-8 (Power Source)
Setting the FRC-8LED brightness (LED Brightness)
Updating the FRC-8 firmware


https://zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads



Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on January 08, 2017, 04:12:01 PM
i like the total recordng time feature!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: OS_Taper on January 08, 2017, 04:19:43 PM
i like the total recordng time feature!


Agreed!   That freaked me out the first time I used it and noticed towards the end of the show the counter was in the single digits...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: drewloo on January 27, 2017, 01:01:02 PM
Alright I give up.  How do you set it up to record stereo tracks?  I have ch 1/2 linked and 3/4 linked but it seems no matter what setting I pick I either get 4-track ply waves or dual-mono stereo tracks.  I want to record 2 stereo tracks, one of channels 1/2 and one of 3/4.  Do I have to unlink them?  Thanks

re: replacement knobs-- Has anyone looked into popping off the original knobs and designing one that connects to the pot directly?  It seems like the ones available now slide over the stock knobs, correct?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Lou Judson on January 28, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
It is really quite simple. In the REC menu, the first two items are Rec to SD1 and Rec to SD2. In those options, choose "mono/Stero WAV" and any tracks selected as stereo with record stereo WAVs. YOu can have different settings on each SD even.

Did you read the manual? It's on P 23.

Check it out!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on January 29, 2017, 01:06:21 AM
Alright I give up.  How do you set it up to record stereo tracks?  I have ch 1/2 linked and 3/4 linked but it seems no matter what setting I pick I either get 4-track ply waves or dual-mono stereo tracks.  I want to record 2 stereo tracks, one of channels 1/2 and one of 3/4.  Do I have to unlink them?  Thanks

re: replacement knobs-- Has anyone looked into popping off the original knobs and designing one that connects to the pot directly?  It seems like the ones available now slide over the stock knobs, correct?

The ones mentioned earlier in part 2 of this thread are the only ones I have seen, and they do fit over the stock knobs.  Work surprisingly well and look nice.  Service from the vendor is very good.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Hypnocracy on January 29, 2017, 02:38:18 PM
Did you read the manual? It's on P 23.

(http://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal/rs-147119-a7a5614bad8f74a6e21b3b788e29dfd7755e3fde.jpg)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: drewloo on January 30, 2017, 06:09:01 AM
It is really quite simple. In the REC menu, the first two items are Rec to SD1 and Rec to SD2. In those options, choose "mono/Stero WAV" and any tracks selected as stereo with record stereo WAVs. YOu can have different settings on each SD even.

Did you read the manual? It's on P 23.

Check it out!

 :)  Yeah I did RTFM and it seemed pretty straightforward but the results were not what I expected.  Perhaps I was looking at the wrong output files or something.   Thanks for the help.

re: the knobs- the reason I asked about them is that the guy who makes the mounts in the retail section is only about an hour away from me and I was thinking about looking into if he could make some knobs that might fit the actual pot on the f8 and not slide over the existing ones as the ones currently offered do.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: efksound on January 30, 2017, 11:37:26 AM

re: replacement knobs-- Has anyone looked into popping off the original knobs and designing one that connects to the pot directly?  It seems like the ones available now slide over the stock knobs, correct?

The original F8 trim knobs are glued and have no shaft , so anything you want to put to replace them will have to go glued as well to hold on
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rigpimp on January 30, 2017, 02:16:45 PM
I've been a long time R-44 user.  I am at the point where I just need more than 4 channels and want to entertain getting an F8.  What kind of price are people paying and where?  I see them all over Kingdom Come for $899.99.  Anyone pay less than that?

I'd also love to see links for the knobs, breakout cable, and case options on page 1 so I don't have to re-read 50+ pages of posts.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on January 30, 2017, 02:23:05 PM
The advertised price is pretty well controlled and standardized by Zoom.  The recent price reduction to $899 is the best I have seen for a new unit.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: drewloo on January 30, 2017, 02:33:37 PM

The original F8 trim knobs are glued and have no shaft , so anything you want to put to replace them will have to go glued as well to hold on

I popped one of the knobs off as soon as I got it thinking I was going to order a pair of your knobs and that's how they attached to the F8.  Only when I read a bit more did I see that yours slipped over the stock knobs. 

I was able to pop it back on without the need for glue (well, yet anyways...) and was just kind of thinking out loud about bigger knobs that attach directly to the pots.  I'm not sure how good a 3-d printer could do with the size of the hole needed for knobs to attach directly to the pots, however.  Thanks for chiming in, I'll probably end up getting a set of your knobs anyways.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on January 30, 2017, 02:47:53 PM
I certainly recommend getting knobs from Efksound.  Service and communication were stellar.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: cleantone on January 30, 2017, 03:35:35 PM
Anyone have any brilliant suggestions for rechargeable AA's to use in the standard caddy and any loose insight on runtime with them? I know it will vary depending on configuration.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: fanofjam on January 30, 2017, 05:40:35 PM
Anyone have any brilliant suggestions for rechargeable AA's to use in the standard caddy and any loose insight on runtime with them? I know it will vary depending on configuration.

There were runtime tests/data in the detailed review of the F8 posted somewhere in this recorders forum.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on February 01, 2017, 12:00:37 PM
For those considering an F8 (or an F4), it appears that the current price drop is the result of a rebate that is only available for a limited time. 

https://www.gothamsound.com/news/f4-f8-instant-rebate

Same info on other sites and Zoom's FB postings.

Ends February 6.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Groove Fan on February 02, 2017, 06:58:43 PM
Hey I can't seem to find the answer in the manual as to why sometimes the mixer pots get grayed out like this:
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: mepaca on February 03, 2017, 04:45:35 AM
Hey I can't seem to find the answer in the manual as to why sometimes the mixer pots get grayed out like this:
Is the track armed?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Groove Fan on February 03, 2017, 07:11:58 AM
Armed or not, I get these grey'ed out seemingly random.  I have the turn the knobs past the set point quite a bit for them to change and value and no longer remain greyed out. It feels like a some sort of safe mode.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: efksound on February 03, 2017, 07:23:45 AM
You need to move the trim knobs of these channels to the previous trim/fader/pan position (indicated by the position of the grey knob)  , so they activate, once activated they will become black  and you can adjust trims/faders/pan again
(remember the F8 trim knobs are not encoders or are motorized)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Groove Fan on February 03, 2017, 11:25:12 AM
This seems odd to me. At what point do they become deactivated and why? I still can't find anything about it in the manual.

I haven't used this out in the field yet, just testing at home. I just know that at a certain point I look over at the screen and the channels turn grey.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: efksound on February 03, 2017, 11:36:46 AM
if you adjust your trim on one channel and then change the trim to fader and move the pot to adjust the level when you get back to trim it will be in gray because you changed the physical position of the pot in the fader section, so to be able to adjust trim again you need to bring back the pot to the physical last position it was in the trim section and then it will become black (active)  and you will be able to change trim values again 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Groove Fan on February 03, 2017, 11:47:32 AM
Understood! Thank you.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: justink on February 05, 2017, 02:34:35 PM
The R-44 always had quite poor pre-amps. EIN is measured at -113 dBu (A weighted). Zoom F4/F8 are measured at -127 dBu.

Zoom needs to be compared to Sound Devices, Zaxcom, Sonosax, and Nagra. Unfortunately I don't have the resources myself to do that. Anyone?

R-44 is poor preamps???
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: justink on February 05, 2017, 04:27:12 PM
will the F8 have a seamless transition from external battery to internal battery when the external goes dead?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: ramallo on February 05, 2017, 08:16:50 PM
will the F8 have a seamless transition from external battery to internal battery when the external goes dead?

Yes, a charming transition
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: aaronji on February 06, 2017, 02:48:30 AM
will the F8 have a seamless transition from external battery to internal battery when the external goes dead?

Yes, a charming transition

Charming, even!  Better than just seamless!  ;)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on February 06, 2017, 10:41:28 AM
Zipless!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: frank10 on February 08, 2017, 03:39:27 PM
I posted the same message to the F4 thread, I post even here because, the units are practically the same design, so it could be useful:

I have a serious problem with my unit (F4), I will tell you after this test: I would like to know if it's only my unit or if it's a design flaw, so it could be an interesting test.

This is an empirically method to check the problem of my previous post (leakage current on the case):
Could you test this:

EDIT: test to be made with the unit powered by the transformer, without other cables connected.

get a multimeter, put at 20V AC, put black probe to connect the external metal hirose connector, and the red probe to the rear metal battery slot.
(Probably it's sufficient touching only with the black probe...)
What does it show the multimeter?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Kohakoo on February 10, 2017, 05:22:23 AM
Hi, Hope I'm in the right place for this. Can anyone tell me how to set up a Cardioid Mic and a Bidirectional Mic to do Mid-Side recording  with the F8.
I have tried different ways and have to end up editing in post to achieve this.
According to the manual, it appears as though you need a dedicated MS Mic to do this. I bought the F8 after reading it can decode Mid-Side.

Thank you Brian
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dynamicalories on March 07, 2017, 10:54:52 AM
What are people recommending these days regarding a external battery for the F8?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dynamicalories on March 18, 2017, 02:37:51 PM
So I've run my Zoom F8 for two different shows now. Both nights the meters read peaks close to 0 (because the mic inputs are so hot), but when I looked at the files later, peaks are actually like -12. Has anyone had a similar experience? Any way to get more accurate readings from the Zoom meters?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: fguidry on March 31, 2017, 02:44:00 PM
Are your meters set to Peak or VU? (Page 116 of the F8 manual)

Fran
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dynamicalories on March 31, 2017, 03:07:14 PM
I'll double check that. But I actually also emailed Zoom and they said to check my fader settings. My faders are set at -33.5, which is how it came from the factory. They said that if I set it to 0 then it will record at the same level as the meters read. But then my question on top of that is: if the meters are peaking above 0, but the recording itself is peaking at -12, will it clip when the meters read 0 or when the meters read +12? Sorry if these are dumb questions....
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on March 31, 2017, 03:20:56 PM
From my understanding the faders (schematic in manual) don't affect the  recordings, unless you are talking about the L/R track; they (can) affect sound going out outputs like main out...

and ... Is Dual Channel Rec on?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dynamicalories on March 31, 2017, 03:52:43 PM
Are your meters set to Peak or VU? (Page 116 of the F8 manual)

Fran

Okay, from reading through the manual, I gather that for my purposes, I was to see Peak Only. Is that correct?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on April 18, 2017, 06:52:04 PM
I clearly hadn't been paying attention, but Zoom has apparently put out a smaller bag that fits both the F4 and F8.  I hadn't seen it referenced here before.  I just wanted a bag to protect the unit in use and thought the initial bags produced by Zoom and Portabrace for the F8 were too large/expensive.  This seems to fit the bill.  Picked one up and it looks just fine for its intended purpose.  Sized more like the Portabrace AR-Z8, but only $89.99.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on April 18, 2017, 08:42:19 PM
I have the bigger bag but I also didn't notice they added the smaller one.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: lsd2525 on April 19, 2017, 08:57:36 AM
This may have been covered before, but will the 1/8" out pass a clean, line level output? Or is it adjusted by a "volume" control on the unit?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on April 19, 2017, 09:34:17 AM
This may have been covered before, but will the 1/8" out pass a clean, line level output? Or is it adjusted by a "volume" control on the unit?

All outputs are subject to (incoming) trim. You can also adjust the volume of the specific output channel and/or the outputs in general. Outputs are consumer level...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: lsd2525 on April 19, 2017, 09:58:13 AM
This may have been covered before, but will the 1/8" out pass a clean, line level output? Or is it adjusted by a "volume" control on the unit?

All outputs are subject to (incoming) trim. You can also adjust the volume of the specific output channel and/or the outputs in general. Outputs are consumer level...

Thanks. So if a F8 is running two sets of mics and a stereo soundboard feed, just the channels with the soundboard feed can be sent to the out, correct?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on April 19, 2017, 11:54:30 AM
This may have been covered before, but will the 1/8" out pass a clean, line level output? Or is it adjusted by a "volume" control on the unit?

All outputs are subject to (incoming) trim. You can also adjust the volume of the specific output channel and/or the outputs in general. Outputs are consumer level...

Thanks. So if a F8 is running two sets of mics and a stereo soundboard feed, just the channels with the soundboard feed can be sent to the out, correct?


Yes. I take advantage of this to stream out the 1/8" output (1/8" out -> sonicport a/d converter -> ipad via lightning port). If I tried to stream a matrix of my microphones and the SBD, I would have to worry about the delay (assuming microphones are back at the SBD). With the F8, I just limit what is sent to the output to the SBD.

The output routing controls allow you to chose what subset of the inputs to send to an output and allows you set gain for any of those inputs, affecting only the sound coming out of the output as opposed to the recording. You could, for example, have a mixture of microphone input and sbd input but lower the level of the microphone input relative to the SBD input, all without affecting the recordings.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: lsd2525 on April 19, 2017, 12:06:16 PM
This may have been covered before, but will the 1/8" out pass a clean, line level output? Or is it adjusted by a "volume" control on the unit?

All outputs are subject to (incoming) trim. You can also adjust the volume of the specific output channel and/or the outputs in general. Outputs are consumer level...

Thanks. So if a F8 is running two sets of mics and a stereo soundboard feed, just the channels with the soundboard feed can be sent to the out, correct?


Yes. I take advantage of this to stream out the 1/8" output (1/8" out -> sonicport a/d converter -> ipad via lightning port). If I tried to stream a matrix of my microphones and the SBD, I would have to worry about the delay (assuming microphones are back at the SBD). With the F8, I just limit what is sent to the output to the SBD.

The output routing controls allow you to chose what subset of the inputs to send to an output and allows you set gain for any of those inputs, affecting only the sound coming out of the output as opposed to the recording. You could, for example, have a mixture of microphone input and sbd input but lower the level of the microphone input relative to the SBD input, all without affecting the recordings.

Perfect. Thanks!!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rigpimp on April 26, 2017, 02:31:15 PM
No affiliation but B&H has $100 off the F8 using code BHNAB17 if you are on the fence and not considering the Mixpre 6.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on April 26, 2017, 04:12:44 PM
im about to post mine in the yard sale. Green 3d printed knobs, two 64gb transcend sd cards that are approved, ted made custom chopped right angle 1/4" cables for line input on ch's 1&2, a set of power cables for naztechs on the dc input and hirose too, gakcable for tekkeon to hirose external batt input too and a tekkeon 3450 battery with dip switches for locking voltage selection with minimal use purchased here unused last summer

Original packaging, and receipt from b&h included.

I just stole a 788ssd on ebay for a price i couldnt pass up after watching them a few weeks is the only reason im selling it.

Price negotiable and payment plans for veteran ts members possible as well
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: obaaron on May 08, 2017, 10:42:22 PM
Hows everyone powering these? Just picked one up need to figure out the best external battery options. 

The smaller the better any recommendations TS peeps?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on May 09, 2017, 01:00:05 AM
I was using tekkeons on the dc inout and the hirose input simultaneously. Then i caught the naztech pb15000's on that time frame where amazon had them <50$ and i snagged a couple of those

Nice cables for both from Ted, never a single issue with powering my f8!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Benderman11 on May 13, 2017, 10:22:53 AM
https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/frc-8-f-series-remote-controller#overview

Field mixing board for zoom F4 & 8.  Not sure I would want to carry another piece of gear around but depends on your application.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: OS_Taper on May 15, 2017, 08:53:57 AM
Hows everyone powering these? Just picked one up need to figure out the best external battery options. 

The smaller the better any recommendations TS peeps?

Although I use a RavPower RP-PB14 as I wanted the larger capacity (23,000mAh) and batter meter, it is quite large and relatively expensive (around $100).  You can also pick up a couple of these little guys pretty cheap:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-1800mAh-Super-Rechargeable-Pack-Protable-Li-ion-Battery-EU-Plug-For-CCTV-/351953126667?hash=item51f20a850b:g:q3gAAOSw241Ycy9y

They do not have meters and are only 1800mAh, but I am able to get a little over 2 hours powering the F8 with 4 mics using phantom power.

hope this helps~
-Don
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Chomps on June 05, 2017, 03:34:19 PM
Has anyone run a SD MP2 with the F8?
I connected to the F8 with XLR and my signal is through the roof. No gain on both the deck and pre.

Any advice?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on June 05, 2017, 03:56:36 PM
XLR on the F8 is mic in, not line in.  In the F8, the combo input jacks, are XLR mic in and TRS line in.  You need an XLR to TRS connector so you are going line in to the F8 through the TRS input jack.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on June 05, 2017, 04:21:03 PM
I like my F8 but thats one of the "features" that annoy me. You *have* to use 1/4" connectors to the F8 for line in (20 db pad).
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Chomps on June 05, 2017, 08:16:04 PM
Lesson learned and will go line in this weekend.

Has anyone purchased the 3D printed knobs from the guy in Europe?
I have a set that should be here at the end of the week.
How exactly are they secured to the existing stock knobs?

Keith
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on June 05, 2017, 08:38:58 PM
Lesson learned and will go line in this weekend.

Has anyone purchased the 3D printed knobs from the guy in Europe?
I have a set that should be here at the end of the week.
How exactly are they secured to the existing stock knobs?

Keith

I have a set. I wold highly recommend using something to secure them. The guy who makes then told about some two sided tape (very very thin). I wrap it around the knobs and then add the printed knob. Before securing them I had trouble with them falling off occasionally but haven'r had trouble since the tape. Ithink any two sided tape cut to size would be ok or maybe someone else has other suggestions
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on June 05, 2017, 09:16:34 PM
Mine fit snug enough that I haven't added anything to secure them.  Probably a good idea though. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Chomps on June 06, 2017, 08:10:33 AM
Lesson learned and will go line in this weekend.

Has anyone purchased the 3D printed knobs from the guy in Europe?
I have a set that should be here at the end of the week.
How exactly are they secured to the existing stock knobs?

Keith


Awesome tip on the double sided tape. I was hoping these did not need to be glued to the existing stock knobs. I guess once they are on they are on and if I sold someone else would want the nicer bigger knobs.

Really starting to like this deck but am not a fan of the stock pre's. I run the nbox with the MG21 actives in 1/2 and also run the SD MP2 with the M20 actives on 3/4.
With the shapeways 4 channel DIN/DINa mount it makes for a really tight sounding rig.

I also like the option of taking an extra two channels from other taper friends to mix in and get a different sound. I took a buddies AKG 414's at a festival a few weeks ago in addition to the SBD and man what a full killer mix it was.

Thanks for all the tips.

Keith

I have a set. I wold highly recommend using something to secure them. The guy who makes then told about some two sided tape (very very thin). I wrap it around the knobs and then add the printed knob. Before securing them I had trouble with them falling off occasionally but haven'r had trouble since the tape. Ithink any two sided tape cut to size would be ok or maybe someone else has other suggestions
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: mepaca on June 11, 2017, 05:36:51 PM
Just picked up the F-control and used it last night. It worked flawlessly. All machine and menu controls are on there. Headphone mixes
are a snap. https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/frc-8-f-series-remote-controller
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Chomps on June 14, 2017, 01:25:47 PM
Mine fit snug enough that I haven't added anything to secure them.  Probably a good idea though.


Mine snapped right on. Nothing needed to secure as well.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on June 14, 2017, 01:55:27 PM
Mine fit snug enough that I haven't added anything to secure them.  Probably a good idea though.


Mine snapped right on. Nothing needed to secure as well.

Mine snapped on too, but loosened with usage. I would still recommend tape also...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Lennert on July 13, 2017, 04:27:37 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if anybody else would like to have the following features for the zoom F8;

-If the channel knobs are in fader function let the fader go from -infinity to +20db with unity (0db) at 12 o’clock, or at least have 0db at 12o'clock.
-Turn the zoom F8 into a 4 channel + mix recorder: the top 4 channel knobs of the zoom F8 controls the gain of channel 1 to 4 and the 4 bottom knobs (the ones from channel 5 to 8) controls the fader of channel 1 to 4. Dual channel recording would be still possible but would be controlled inside the menu of the channel and not with the channel knobs outside the menu.

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Sonus Captor on November 18, 2017, 02:00:41 PM
Firmware 4.1 out

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: connloyalist on November 18, 2017, 02:31:06 PM
Firmware 4.1 out

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/handy-recorder/zoom-f8-multitrack-field-recorder#downloads

Thanks for the heads up.

Regards, Christine
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on March 01, 2018, 03:10:14 PM
Quote
Now through March 31st the F8 is available for $749.99 after a $250 instant rebate.

https://www.facebook.com/ZoomNorthAmerica/photos/a.597748480298798.1073741828.539704256103221/1877141025692864/?type=3&hc_ref=ARQFTNmOURtSRw5uYdEk7HJH1WjkpGQ4W5wubtHZyzEi4X6JTbGqux5s51K7wgXjJ4U&fref=gs&dti=1537376413240852&hc_location=group
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on March 01, 2018, 09:40:32 PM
Wow that's quite the price reduction
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on March 01, 2018, 10:12:04 PM
Need to compete with SD now that they are no longer the new shiny item.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on March 02, 2018, 10:03:23 AM
There's also the possibility that Zoom is coming out with a new recorder...possibly to compete with the MixPre-10T?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on March 05, 2018, 03:31:48 AM
Need to compete with SD now that they are no longer the new shiny item.

F4 is much much cheaper than the MixPre6, and the F8 is heaps and heaps cheaper than the MixPre10T.

So Zoom had a clear lead with pricing even before the price drops, guess Zoom just really wants to hammer home hard that advantage.

But yes, I hope this indicates a new product is coming from Zoom, perhaps in a few weeks more at NAB?

A Zoom F8n or F10 would be nice to see, with some kinds of updates/improvements.

Hopefully not something like the F1 however :-/  Heh, although I suppose a "F2" is a possibility too with say 2x XLR inputs plus a 3.5mm stereo input, if in an ultra small form factor (like the MixPre3 is! :-o ) then that would be a welcome arrival for some.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Perry on April 29, 2018, 08:45:57 PM
Hey All,
I just made the jump from a DR-70D to the F8. My main power source in the field is the RAVPower 23,000 mAh Li-Po pack https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFMUBYG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HFMUBYG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1), connected to the DC in jack on the rear of the F8. I've noticed that if I charge the battery and leave it connected to the deck, the battery loses 25% of its charge overnight. This is with the F8 turned OFF and no internal AA's installed. The battery continues to drain at gradually slowing rate. After 24 hours it is down to less than 20% capacity. This drainage doesn't happen if I leave the battery disconnected. Has anyone else experienced this? Is someone willing to give this a try using any LiPo pack connected to the rear power jack?

My first time out with the deck I ran 6 mics @P48. After three hours the battery was down to 75% capacity- is this normal or is my deck drawing too much current?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on April 29, 2018, 11:04:33 PM
Could it make a difference if you use the hirose connection on the side? 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Perry on April 30, 2018, 03:19:52 PM
Could it make a difference if you use the hirose connection on the side?
I just ordered a cable so we'll see.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: vwmule on April 30, 2018, 10:35:35 PM
> This drainage doesn't happen if I leave the battery disconnected.

Why would you want to leave it connected? While it's good to know how things perform, doesn't seem like good practice in general.


> My first time out with the deck I ran 6 mics @P48. After three hours the battery was down to 75% capacity- is this normal or is my deck drawing too much current?

Six mics for three hours and only using 25 percent, if I'm reading this correct, is remarkably good.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Perry on May 01, 2018, 08:32:11 PM
> This drainage doesn't happen if I leave the battery disconnected.

Why would you want to leave it connected? While it's good to know how things perform, doesn't seem like good practice in general.

I never had a reason to disconnect it (until now). I had to resolder the USB jack on my DR-70 after less than a year of use. I can only assume that the repetitive connection/disconnection of the USB battery pack contributed to the problem so I just got in the practice of leaving it connected. With both decks, I've attached the battery to the deck with Handi-Tak so I treat it as one unit and just leave them connected.

I think I got to the bottom of this yesterday. Before, I disconnected the DC output cable from the battery and saw no drain on the battery overnight. But if I leave the output cable connected to the battery only (no deck at the other end), the battery loses 25% overnight. Anytime the output cable is connected, the battery's display and backlight turn on and stay on. I wouldn't have thought the little display was much of a load but apparently, that's what draws the battery down. I'm sure I'll have the same issue using the Hirose jack, I'll just have to get in the habit of pulling the cable from the battery when I'm not using it. I can find no way to turn the display off and it's disappointing to think that this unnecessary additional drain is happening whenever I'm running the deck.

Quote
> My first time out with the deck I ran 6 mics @P48. After three hours the battery was down to 75% capacity- is this normal or is my deck drawing too much current?

Six mics for three hours and only using 25 percent, if I'm reading this correct, is remarkably good.

You read it right but I misspoke. It was 4 mics @P48, 2 @PiP.  So long as it gets me through a full festival day...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Chomps on May 02, 2018, 09:53:01 AM
4 Mics with PP is still very good on going down 25%.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on May 21, 2018, 10:43:51 PM
I wrote up my hopes, dreams, and wishes for the Zoom F8n:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/what-id-like-to-see-in-the-new-zoom-f8n/

(and hopefully even some firmware updates we might see for the original F8/F4)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on June 04, 2018, 07:37:37 PM
has anyone had any experience with zoom service? Im sending in my F8 to have them look at it.

They told Doug Oade, who currently has my unit, that they would attempt to fix my unit and then if they could not they would offer some sort of discount toward another piece of gear or another f8 from them, even when its out of warranty...

Doug was originally under the impression full compass did service for zoom, but they told him that Zoom had also denied them the schematics and everything the same way they did Doug, and that it had to be sent to Zoom themselves.

I was wondering if anyone has had service work done that was unable to be repaired and already out of warranty, how much of a price break on another piece of gear they might be offering. Ive never dealt with a company who did such a thing.

Im fairly confident in the fact that it is dead, even without schematics or anything from zoom, im confident that if anyone is capable of fixing it, Doug is the one. He had already tore it down completely previously, and put it back together attempting to see if anything on the unit could be modified that would benefit me, which there wasnt. The unit was damaged afterwards, in the hands of someone else.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 04, 2018, 10:56:21 PM
When an original F8 is worth maybe six hundred bucks at most on the secondhand market, then it is hard to justify repairing it in many instances.

However when the problem is Zoom's fault (like with a few early models of the F8 and their white screen of death) then Zoom has been excellent in replacing them from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 06, 2018, 09:20:46 AM
Wow, I just found out that the Zoom F8 made up TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of Zoom's sales! :-o 
Good grief, no wonder they followed it up with an F4 and now a F8n!

That must be a tonne of F8 recorders that they sold over the years.  Zillions of them. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on June 09, 2018, 07:10:25 AM
I finally got around to calling the Zoom Service number. It was answered on the second ring by a knowledgeable and courteous guy who immediatly said they would replace my unit at no cost, and even pay shipping for mine to come to them.

I was sure he misunderstood me when i said it was way out of warranty coverage and i had to interupt him because i was positive he hadnt heard me correctly. He kind of chuckled a bit and shocked me by saying that my issue isnt a constantly seen issue it is however one they have had issues with, and they would treat my unit as if it were under full warranty with my proof of purchase from a authorized Zoom Sales retailer.

Mine was purchased 2/16/16 from b&h amd a screenshot of the order history on my b&h account of the purchase info was more than enough to satisfy him.

I was offered a new unit up front for a temp 500$ hold to a cc til my unit arrived, or they could ship a new one right out as soon as they receive mine.

I spaced on asking if i could chip in the addition 200$ the F8n retail price is appearing to be set at, and get a f8n instead. I hope they will allow that, as i will def be doing that.

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 09, 2018, 08:53:52 AM
I finally got around to calling the Zoom Service number. It was answered on the second ring by a knowledgeable and courteous guy who immediatly said they would replace my unit at no cost, and even pay shipping for mine to come to them.

I was sure he misunderstood me when i said it was way out of warranty coverage and i had to interupt him because i was positive he hadnt heard me correctly. He kind of chuckled a bit and shocked me by saying that my issue isnt a constantly seen issue it is however one they have had issues with, and they would treat my unit as if it were under full warranty with my proof of purchase from a authorized Zoom Sales retailer.

Mine was purchased 2/16/16 from b&h amd a screenshot of the order history on my b&h account of the purchase info was more than enough to satisfy him.

I was offered a new unit up front for a temp 500$ hold to a cc til my unit arrived, or they could ship a new one right out as soon as they receive mine.

I spaced on asking if i could chip in the addition 200$ the F8n retail price is appearing to be set at, and get a f8n instead. I hope they will allow that, as i will def be doing that.

Wow! I am fully amazed by that.

People like to hate upon Zoom because they "have poor custom service/support" compared to the big guys in the location sound world, but nope! I think Zoom is worth very penny.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on June 09, 2018, 10:41:40 AM
No doubt! It is damn near 16 months out of warranty.

I was more than willing to wind up paying what wouldve been half the units value today to get it repaired too.

Im hoping they let me upgrade to the f8n for the retail price difference. Its been awhile since i had a new toy to play with!

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on June 13, 2018, 07:19:20 AM
took them til yesterday to respond to my inquiry about a possible credit towards the f8n when released, and they said "no, we can only offer you the f8 at this time".

kinda bummed, but at the same time its hard to be butt hurt with a new f8 to reaplce mine especially out of warranty!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 13, 2018, 08:59:25 AM
Indeed!

Plus they probably want to clear out whatever stock of F8 they have left before the F8n ships, so they'd probably rather you took the F8 than an F8n.

Ah well, you could always sell the replacement as a "mint new F8" when it comes back? Still got time to do this before the F8n arrives! ;-)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 14, 2018, 09:27:45 PM
App updated finally FINALLY: <<2.0.0 Jun 14, 2018
Improved not to put iOS device in sleep mode while using F8 Control.
The F8n has been added as a supported device.>>

Yay? But yikes, I hope Zoom is going to do a *lot* more than just that for the app! After 3 long years of nothing, a lot more is needed.

I mean, the version history is going from v1.1 to v2.0, so that *must* indicate some very large improvements over the old app beyond what is just listed in the notes? Any one with an F8 and an iOS device who can confirm this? (Android and F4 user here....)

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/f8-control/id1014945716
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on June 20, 2018, 07:41:26 PM
Still a bit shocked at every step of the way on my unit being replaced.

They received my unit on monday, the same day they tested it to verify its dead and no dc inputs work and the aa tray isnt working either.

They shipped me out a new unit the same afternoon!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on June 20, 2018, 10:15:22 PM
Interesting about the battery tray.  I had my original tray go dead on me, outside of the warranty period, and bought a replacement.  I wonder if anyone else has had battery tray issues?  Outside of that, it has worked like a champ.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Perry on June 20, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
My battery sled failed right out of the box. It was a cold solder joint on the little PCB behind the plastic cover that shrouds the rear connector. I fixed it myself. I noticed Zoom did away with the sled on the F8n.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on June 21, 2018, 07:45:00 AM
I don't understand why so many manufacturers use these battery trays / sleds.  It seems like it unnecessarily introduces several additional points of failure.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dallman on June 21, 2018, 12:18:53 PM
Interesting about the battery tray.  I had my original tray go dead on me, outside of the warranty period, and bought a replacement.  I wonder if anyone else has had battery tray issues?  Outside of that, it has worked like a champ.
For anyone who has this issue, keep in mind that many credit cards have extended warranties and this would be covered. It is always worth a call.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 23, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
Still a bit shocked at every step of the way on my unit being replaced.

They received my unit on monday, the same day they tested it to verify its dead and no dc inputs work and the aa tray isnt working either.

They shipped me out a new unit the same afternoon!

Too often people bring up the red herring of "oh but Sound Devices is worth paying more for because customer service blah blah blah", yet the evidence shows that Zoom is doing surprisingly well in this area! Even though their products are cheaper.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: caymanreview on June 23, 2018, 11:46:12 PM
I have another positive part of the replacement process that is worth mentioning, just to show the level of attention this company paid during the process.

my unit was received, checked, and replaced in less that one business day after my dead f8 arrived.

As soon as my dead unit was a day or two into the return shipping and well out of reach for me, i realized i had not removed my 3d printed knobs, and neutrick xlr booty covers for the inputs i never used. I had read on the RA form to just send the bare unit for testing as thats all that will be semt back etc etc.

I willingly just looked at the 3d knobs as a loss, and thought id have to buy a new set. But i was pumped when i opened my package from Zoom to find the knobs and booties all packaged up nice and taped to the bubble wrape on my new f8 replacement.

I think i want an F8n now!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 24, 2018, 01:01:11 AM
I have another positive part of the replacement process that is worth mentioning, just to show the level of attention this company paid during the process.

my unit was received, checked, and replaced in less that one business day after my dead f8 arrived.

As soon as my dead unit was a day or two into the return shipping and well out of reach for me, i realized i had not removed my 3d printed knobs, and neutrick xlr booty covers for the inputs i never used. I had read on the RA form to just send the bare unit for testing as thats all that will be semt back etc etc.

I willingly just looked at the 3d knobs as a loss, and thought id have to buy a new set. But i was pumped when i opened my package from Zoom to find the knobs and booties all packaged up nice and taped to the bubble wrape on my new f8 replacement.

I think i want an F8n now!

Do it! :-D
Join the gang. I've placed my order.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on June 24, 2018, 04:40:50 AM
Oh interesting, at B&H they've now switched it back to "pre-order" status, which is kinda odd as others have got a shipping notification from B&H and when my order was placed through they had them all in stock. I guess their stock must have sold out very quickly!

Who else has ordered a F8n?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1411499-REG/zoom_zf8n_zoom_f8n_multi_track_recorder.html
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: ricola on July 14, 2018, 01:06:12 PM
I still don't understand the Input M/S linking funktion for the Zoom F8.
Usually I wanted a RAW signal (separat for Mid and Side) to change the amount of Mid or Side later in my DAW. If I enable the Zoom MS Decoder for this recorded signal in my DAW....it sounds really strange.
So it seems, with the M/S Linking function the recorded Stereo file is already a decoded and finished signal??

So maybe I have to use the normal Stereo linking funktion to record a RAW Mid and Side Signal which I can change later in my DAW??



Thanks for your help....
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on July 14, 2018, 02:08:50 PM
If you want to do your mid/side decoding in post, don't use the mid/side function in the F8.  Just record the two tracks like any two-channel stereo (making note, of course, of which track is the side).
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: ricola on July 14, 2018, 02:44:48 PM
If you want to do your mid/side decoding in post, don't use the mid/side function in the F8.  Just record the two tracks like any two-channel stereo (making note, of course, of which track is the side).

a simple solution, thanks for the quick help! Btw, I love the result of M/S Stereo for a Room Micro. Beside other spot mics for the instruments it gives a nice addition for the whole Mix.
Yesterday I taped a Jazz Quintet and used a Sennheiser MKH40 for Mid and Haun 603/KA800 for Side Mic.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: goodcooker on July 16, 2018, 10:14:38 AM
Just record the two tracks like any two-channel stereo (making note, of course, of which track is the side).

The conventional wisdom is to always record the MID to track 1/LEFT and the Side to track 2/RIGHT.

Most MS decoder plugins work with this format.

Personally I never use MS decoding while recording - I always want to be able to process at home later when I can hear what I'm doing.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on July 16, 2018, 10:40:33 AM
The Mid/Side decoder in the recorder can be inserted either at the input stage (in which case you are recording Left/Right signals instead of Mid/Side, and will be monitoring audio from those channels as Left/Right) or inserted at the channel output to the mix bus (in which case you are recording Mid and Side signals but monitoring/outputting Left/Right signals).

If you've already recorded the matrixed Left/Right, you can convert it back to Mid/Side again.  You can do so either via direct playback from the machine using the Mid/Side decoder in the machine on the playback side (M/S > M/S decoder > L/R), or in your DAW.

That way you can "re-tweak" the Mid/Side ratio slightly if necessary when converting back to L/R again via another pass through a M/S decoder.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Perry on July 31, 2018, 04:53:19 PM
Invoked the new firmware last night (v5.0), the process was glitch-free and all settings were left untouched. I'll be testing the "advanced" limiters Thursday. I was hoping to get the F8n's vertical display but I'm not going to complain, Zoom practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on July 31, 2018, 08:41:00 PM
I'm not going to complain, Zoom [/font]practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:

Yeah I'm left wondering what the hell did I pay extra for to get the F8n.....  ah well, I guess I'll wait and see?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: JoShmo on August 01, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
Invoked the new firmware last night (v5.0), the process was glitch-free and all settings were left untouched. I'll be testing the "advanced" limiters Thursday. I was hoping to get the F8n's vertical display but I'm not going to complain, Zoom practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:
If by "vertical display" you mean the new look "Fader Mode" for the home screen its there - option is just a bit buried!
Or perhaps you meant something else.
I can't remember the last time I was treated so well by a company after buying a tech product. v5.0 is an embarrassment of riches. They've got me for life now!
One other thing that's changed that I haven't seen mentioned - and its a biggy for me - shortcuts that previously relied on pressing "STOP" and [Key] (eg clear overs) now don't need the "STOP" whilst recording! So happy about that!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: efksound on August 03, 2018, 07:00:37 AM
Invoked the new firmware last night (v5.0), the process was glitch-free and all settings were left untouched. I'll be testing the "advanced" limiters Thursday. I was hoping to get the F8n's vertical display but I'm not going to complain, Zoom [font=arial

You can have the vertical display as well

 Menu >System >Track Knob óption> Fader
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on August 03, 2018, 02:42:53 PM
Invoked the new firmware last night (v5.0), the process was glitch-free and all settings were left untouched. I'll be testing the "advanced" limiters Thursday. I was hoping to get the F8n's vertical display but I'm not going to complain, Zoom practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:
If by "vertical display" you mean the new look "Fader Mode" for the home screen its there - option is just a bit buried!
Or perhaps you meant something else.
I can't remember the last time I was treated so well by a company after buying a tech product. v5.0 is an embarrassment of riches. They've got me for life now!
One other thing that's changed that I haven't seen mentioned - and its a biggy for me - shortcuts that previously relied on pressing "STOP" and [Key] (eg clear overs) now don't need the "STOP" whilst recording! So happy about that!

BEST. NEWS. EVER.

it always made me super super nervous to press "stop" during a recording.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: obaaron on August 03, 2018, 03:15:23 PM
Man I need to get on this. Gotta love that Zoom is still cranking out this many new features for a deck that is 4 years old, especially with a new model out....love it!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on August 03, 2018, 03:18:39 PM
Man I need to get on this. Gotta love that Zoom is still cranking out this many new features for a deck that is 4 years old, especially with a new model out....love it!

3 years
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on August 03, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
I'm not going to complain, Zoom [/font]practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:

Yeah I'm left wondering what the hell did I pay extra for to get the F8n.....  ah well, I guess I'll wait and see?

I'm just going off memory, but doesn't the F8n have actual physical improvements to the headphone amp?  I know the headphone amp is a common complaint about the F8.  I'm guessing the new F8 firmware won't be as good an improvement as having an actual physical improvement like the F8n has...?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on August 03, 2018, 04:11:17 PM
I'm not going to complain, Zoom [/font]practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:

Yeah I'm left wondering what the hell did I pay extra for to get the F8n.....  ah well, I guess I'll wait and see?

I'm just going off memory, but doesn't the F8n have actual physical improvements to the headphone amp?  I know the headphone amp is a common complaint about the F8.  I'm guessing the new F8 firmware won't be as good an improvement as having an actual physical improvement like the F8n has...?

From the F8 FB group:

Update 8/1/18* Contacted Zoom and they said there is no difference between the headphone outputs after v.5.0.


Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on August 03, 2018, 04:46:17 PM
Well I guess if nothing else it's good to see a company not "holding back" capabilities just to try to push people into buying a newer product  :shrug:
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: JoShmo on August 04, 2018, 11:09:02 AM
I'm not going to complain, Zoom [/font]practically handed us an F8n with this firmware update:

Yeah I'm left wondering what the hell did I pay extra for to get the F8n.....  ah well, I guess I'll wait and see?

I'm just going off memory, but doesn't the F8n have actual physical improvements to the headphone amp?  I know the headphone amp is a common complaint about the F8.  I'm guessing the new F8 firmware won't be as good an improvement as having an actual physical improvement like the F8n has...?

From the F8 FB group:

Update 8/1/18* Contacted Zoom and they said there is no difference between the headphone outputs after v.5.0.
Just astonishing. I know early F8n owners who frantically traded up might feel aggrieved, but the idea of eaking out the very best from hardware already released is a very welcome move
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on August 05, 2018, 07:00:13 AM
Yeah, as someone who owns the first (and only) Zoom F8n in his country, I kinda have mildly mixed feelings about this. Oh well.

Hopefully in the next three years to come then Zoom will treat the F8n just as awesomely as they have the F8 original! ;-)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on August 05, 2018, 07:04:37 AM
I thought the headphone amp was physically different as well.  Interesting.

Given this new firmware update, what are the actual differences between the F8 and F8n at this point?

The only things I can see are the F8n allowing line inputs via both XLR and TRS, and having a lower input impedance (2 kΩ for F8n vs 3.3 kΩ for F8).

In other words, why buy an F8n at this point?  It benefits us, but seems a really odd marketing move.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on August 05, 2018, 11:06:38 AM
I thought the headphone amp was physically different as well.  Interesting.

Given this new firmware update, what are the actual differences between the F8 and F8n at this point?

The only things I can see are the F8n allowing line inputs via both XLR and TRS, and having a lower input impedance (2 kΩ for F8n vs 3.3 kΩ for F8).

In other words, why buy an F8n at this point?  It benefits us, but seems a really odd marketing move.

+4dB output,  9-18V versus 9-16V DC input, 3.5 verus 4.5 hours of battery life...


The 8n's firmware is at 1.10 perhaps there are firmware updates coming that will add features. Its cool tath they are supporting the oldr 8n so well but from a marketing point of view it all seems strange.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on August 05, 2018, 11:10:16 AM
Well, the F8 is discontinued, so if you want to buy new (and not just NOS), you can only buy the F8n.  The price appears to be what the F8 sold for new, when it was released (not marked down to clear inventory when they released the F8n).  So, at this point, it appears to simply be a model replacement that does have the more flexible XLR/TRS inputs.  The “deal” was perhaps buying an F8 when they cleared them out to introduce the F8n.  But that was temporary and things appear to be back “normal” now from a pricing standpoint.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on August 05, 2018, 02:11:58 PM
I thought the headphone amp was physically different as well.  Interesting.

Given this new firmware update, what are the actual differences between the F8 and F8n at this point?

The only things I can see are the F8n allowing line inputs via both XLR and TRS, and having a lower input impedance (2 kΩ for F8n vs 3.3 kΩ for F8).

In other words, why buy an F8n at this point?  It benefits us, but seems a really odd marketing move.

+4dB output,  9-18V versus 9-16V DC input, 3.5 verus 4.5 hours of battery life...


The 8n's firmware is at 1.10 perhaps there are firmware updates coming that will add features. Its cool tath they are supporting the oldr 8n so well but from a marketing point of view it all seems strange.

Thanks; I missed the powering differences.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: johnmuge on August 05, 2018, 02:20:56 PM
https://www.adorama.com/zozf8.html?msclkid=330247d04d891aa7b3f21cb77406ae36&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5bShopping%5d%20All%20Products%20%5bADL%5d%20%5bPLA%5d&utm_term=1100502012302&utm_content=All%20Products

Adorama is showing them in stock at $699.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on August 05, 2018, 02:44:38 PM
https://www.adorama.com/zozf8.html?msclkid=330247d04d891aa7b3f21cb77406ae36&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5bShopping%5d%20All%20Products%20%5bADL%5d%20%5bPLA%5d&utm_term=1100502012302&utm_content=All%20Products

Adorama is showing them in stock at $699.

NOS I think.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: ellaguru on October 26, 2018, 03:43:37 PM
while I find myself pretty nimble-fingered, i dig the look of the add on after market knobs.  where the heck can i find them, again?  I did see a fakebook link, but im not on there.

any guidance appreciated!

/edit to add:
is there a list of sd cards that are known to work properly with the F8?  Been diving through these years old threads but haven't stumbled upon anything yet. 

this unit will make recording band prac a breeze

Chris
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on October 26, 2018, 04:45:31 PM
is there a list of sd cards that are known to work properly with the F8?  Been diving through these years old threads but haven't stumbled upon anything yet. 

I believe Zoom has a published list on its web site.  That said, the two cards I use aren't on their list but have worked flawlessly.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: JoShmo on October 26, 2018, 10:36:19 PM
while I find myself pretty nimble-fingered, i dig the look of the add on after market knobs.  where the heck can i find them, again?  I did see a fakebook link, but im not on there.

any guidance appreciated!
Chris
Only on fbook afaik - https://en-gb.facebook.com/efksound3D/
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: pohaku on October 26, 2018, 11:39:46 PM
https://www.adorama.com/zozf8.html?msclkid=330247d04d891aa7b3f21cb77406ae36&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5bShopping%5d%20All%20Products%20%5bADL%5d%20%5bPLA%5d&utm_term=1100502012302&utm_content=All%20Products

Adorama is showing them in stock at $699.

NOS I think.

Since this thread popped up again, I looked and, sure enough, the F8 is now no longer available.  But the F8n is.  So, it looks like a model replacement.  If you have an F8, you can upgrade the firmware, which will get you pretty close, but not quite, to the same features as the F8n.  If you don’t have one (or don’t want to look for one used to upgrade), then the F8n is the only option.  Nothing wrong with that. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: ellaguru on October 28, 2018, 09:53:55 AM
while I find myself pretty nimble-fingered, i dig the look of the add on after market knobs.  where the heck can i find them, again?  I did see a fakebook link, but im not on there.

any guidance appreciated!
Chris
Only on fbook afaik - https://en-gb.facebook.com/efksound3D/

dammit..no fakebook here...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: dactylus on October 29, 2018, 10:19:14 AM
while I find myself pretty nimble-fingered, i dig the look of the add on after market knobs.  where the heck can i find them, again?  I did see a fakebook link, but im not on there.

any guidance appreciated!
Chris
Only on fbook afaik - https://en-gb.facebook.com/efksound3D/

dammit..no fakebook here...

^
ellaguru,

No fakebook, no problem.  The maker of these custom knobs is a member here:   efksound -    http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19674     Send them a PM.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: tgakidis on October 29, 2018, 12:12:39 PM
while I find myself pretty nimble-fingered, i dig the look of the add on after market knobs.  where the heck can i find them, again?  I did see a fakebook link, but im not on there.

any guidance appreciated!
Chris
Only on fbook afaik - https://en-gb.facebook.com/efksound3D/

dammit..no fakebook here...

^
ellaguru,

No fakebook, no problem.  The maker of these custom knobs is a member here:   efksound -    http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19674     Send them a PM.

There is a seller also on eBay, these are a little nice IMO: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F362443110013&fbclid=IwAR1HPJOzBYVpF3mlVr6nvVWyHMoAjLDGL_TG6egSdZRADDEWfR6fP5b1OvY
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: ellaguru on October 31, 2018, 05:24:06 AM
thanks for the guidance, friends.  got the knobs ordered!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Sebastian on November 13, 2018, 12:32:41 PM
F8 firmware 5.10 is out. Changes are:

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on December 21, 2018, 10:40:54 AM
I'm picking up an F8 this weekend and looking forward to giving it a go.  I'm completely satisfied with the Tascam DR-680Mk2, yet want more than 6 preamp inputs with phantom.  Have recently been using a Roland R-88 on temporary loan, which will make for another point of comparison.  The R-88 is a very nice recorder, but large, heavy, and a generation or two older.

I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on December 21, 2018, 10:46:40 AM
I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.

I've got a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-14500mAh-26400mAh/dp/B016BJCRUO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502479575&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=talenccell&th=1

While I haven't been the festival type for the most part, I've recorded some long shows with a lot of phantom power running and have barely put a dent in this battery.  If anything it's probably overkill (for me, at least).

Also FWIW I'm still on firmware 4.10 and haven't had any issues.  (I haven't had any issues with any firmware version, though.)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: voltronic on December 21, 2018, 10:52:20 AM
I'm picking up an F8 this weekend and looking forward to giving it a go.  I'm completely satisfied with the Tascam DR-680Mk2, yet want more than 6 preamp inputs with phantom.  Have recently been using a Roland R-88 on temporary loan, which will make for another point of comparison.  The R-88 is a very nice recorder, but large, heavy, and a generation or two older.

I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts.  I am now leaning more towards the F8 vs. the MixPre-6 when it's time to upgrade my deck.  Although my modded DR-70D keeps on trucking for me.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on December 21, 2018, 11:34:29 AM
I've got a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-14500mAh-26400mAh/dp/B016BJCRUO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502479575&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=talenccell&th=1

While I haven't been the festival type for the most part, I've recorded some long shows with a lot of phantom power running and have barely put a dent in this battery.  If anything it's probably overkill (for me, at least).

I've two of those of these I bought for my DR-680's, and used one to power the R-88.  Good to see confirmation that they work for the F8 as well.  I'll check out the power connection this weekend.. is there a prefered power-cable or any specific power settings I should be aware of?

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts.  I am now leaning more towards the F8 vs. the MixPre-6 when it's time to upgrade my deck.  Although my modded DR-70D keeps on trucking for me.

Yes I've looked at the SD's as well, yet what I'm looking for is a straight 8 mic-channel input recorder and the only other option within budget is a second-hand R-88.  I actually would have bought the one I had on loan despite its size and heft if it was more like an 8-channel version of the R-44, but in targeting a more professional recording market with the R-88, Roland eliminated (or simply chose not to implement) some R-44 features which are important to my use, rather than extending and improving them as I had hoped to find.  Still holding onto my OCM R44 which I still use frequently for 4 channel output playback.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on December 21, 2018, 11:54:18 AM
I've two of those of these I bought for my DR-680's, and used one to power the R-88.  Good to see confirmation that they work for the F8 as well.  I'll check out the power connection this weekend.. is there a prefered power-cable or any specific power settings I should be aware of?

I just use the power cable I got with the F8 (I bought mine used, so I'm not entirely sure if it actually came with the F8 originally or was thrown into the deal...it looks like it came with the F8 though).  If you'd like I could send you a picture of it so you can see what I'm talking about, since I'm doing such a bad job describing it.

I don't remember doing any specific power settings.  I think I just plugged it in and went to town.  It's possible I did and forgot since I haven't needed to mess with it since then, but I'm not sure.  I use the hirose connection on the F8, FWIW.

I might have a custom power cable Ted made for me kicking around.  Or I may have thrown that in when I sold my F4.  Regardless, I'm perfectly happy with the plain old Zoom cable, even if it does have a weird dongle thing in the middle of it.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on December 21, 2018, 12:08:16 PM
Thanks. I'll figure it out once I take a look at everything this weekend.  Will return to this thread if I have questions.  Hoping to use it for a show Jan 3rd.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on December 21, 2018, 01:58:45 PM
I've two of those of these I bought for my DR-680's, and used one to power the R-88.  Good to see confirmation that they work for the F8 as well.  I'll check out the power connection this weekend.. is there a prefered power-cable or any specific power settings I should be aware of?

I just use the power cable I got with the F8 (I bought mine used, so I'm not entirely sure if it actually came with the F8 originally or was thrown into the deal...it looks like it came with the F8 though).  If you'd like I could send you a picture of it so you can see what I'm talking about, since I'm doing such a bad job describing it.

I don't remember doing any specific power settings.  I think I just plugged it in and went to town.  It's possible I did and forgot since I haven't needed to mess with it since then, but I'm not sure.  I use the hirose connection on the F8, FWIW.

I might have a custom power cable Ted made for me kicking around.  Or I may have thrown that in when I sold my F4.  Regardless, I'm perfectly happy with the plain old Zoom cable, even if it does have a weird dongle thing in the middle of it.

You are probably referring to this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1353406-REG/zoom_dhc_1_dc_to_hirose_cable.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyZin8Myx3wIV20sNCh1C5w62EAQYASABEgJaIfD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y


It comes standard with the F4 but not the F8. I passed on the xtra one I had...
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on December 21, 2018, 03:18:24 PM
You are probably referring to this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1353406-REG/zoom_dhc_1_dc_to_hirose_cable.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyZin8Myx3wIV20sNCh1C5w62EAQYASABEgJaIfD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y


It comes standard with the F4 but not the F8. I passed on the xtra one I had...

Yep, that's the one.  I wasn't clear previously what it did or didn't come with.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 08, 2019, 01:13:40 PM
Ran F8 for the first time last Thursday with all 8 channels populated with phantom powered microphones.  Powered it with the Tallent Cell battery directly into the coaxial main input on the back using a power cable/connector for a DR680 MK1.  Everything went well other than struggling to getting a handle on input trims across all 8 channels during the first song, balancing channel pairs, getting all pairs peaking appropriately, then ganging them all for global trim control.. all without accidentally touching one of the other trims and needing to carefully readjust.  I find the input sensitivity trim adjustment quite "touchy".  Found myself wishing there was a mode where the input trim values (not the encoder trim knobs themselves) snapped to detent values rather than being smoothly linear, and/or a mode where one could switch between smaller trim sensitivity ranges.

I think what I'll need to do is determine the appropriate relative trims, then always leave all channels ganged to avoid that struggle, only tweaking one trim for all channels.  I can make that work as I will pretty much always use the same microphone arrangement and channel assignments with this recorder.

I find that having set the recorder to write four 2ch WAVs, upon playback from the machine those pairs are locked into being manageable only as stereo pairs in the monitor mixer and the channels they contain cannot be individually panned or otherwise adjusted individually.  Seems I'll need to either record mono WAVs or a polyphonic WAV to be able to do this.  This behaviour is different than the Roland R-44 and Tascam DR-680 in that those machines don't change their behavior based on WAV type other than affecting when an auto-split occurs.

I also am having a hard time figuring out exactly what is going on with M/S playback matrixing. But initial listening to a mix of the recording through the headphone out sounds very good.

The F8 is certainly more complicated to run than the DR-680 MK2 which I still really like otherwise, yet need the extra two input channels with built-in preamps.

Was running firmware version 3.something the unit came with (new old stock) and just updated to the most current 5.10 firmware last night.  I've yet to explore that further.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 08, 2019, 01:54:34 PM
I have a default grouping of trims that I use, and that only gets changed when I switch to ambisonic mode.  I'm at the point where I don't really need to do much in the way of adjustment in the field.  I pretty much just turn on phantom for the appropriate channels, let it roll, and maybe adjust levels (though I can often guess ahead of time to get them either right on or very close).  I also don't use as many features as you're using...for example I think I've only used the F8 for playback once.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 08, 2019, 04:13:17 PM
I see that's what I'll likely do as well.  Have yet to check out the ambisonic mode now that I've loaded firmware which includes it.


Somewhat OT-
I realize my use of recorders for the kind of playback I'm doing unusual, and is where I generally find all the multichannel recorders commonly used around here to be lacking in various ways in comparison to their recording modes.  The features I wish for are all well within the realm of possibility but just not commonly used and requested I suppose.  Each multichannel recorder provides a different limited set of output functionalities.   If only one manufacturer would combine them in one machine.  Shouldn't be difficult to implement, it's mostly just signal routing changes, but would need to be implemented in the design phase.

For instance, I'd prefer to have all the input options on the F8 such as delay, polarity, M/S decoding, (and EQ, sadly not available on the F8) as playback options where I'll actually make use of them. 

R-88 does provide per-channel parametric EQ (as well as level and pan) to the 2-channel mix output, but just like the F8 delay and polarity options are record only.  And although R-88 provides individual outputs for all channels (unlike the F8 and SD-mixpres) there is control over them whatsoever. 

DR-680 provides 6 discrete channel outs but like R-88 without any control over them, provides level and panning for 2-ch mix output but no delay, polarity or EQ.

R-44 lacks panning control (it's most egregious omission), but goes further than all the others in providing discrete channel outputs for all channels with level control, as well as choice between a couple different EQs, M/S decoding, compression/limiting, or a few other filters I never use for all output channels.  I was hoping that Roland carried this arrangement forward with R-88 and 8 channels with the inclusion of panning (and additional processing power and routing options), but they did not.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 08, 2019, 04:45:26 PM
Staying off topic, I'm curious why you use the recorder so often for playback?  Can the multichannel playback not be accomplished with a PC?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 08, 2019, 05:52:19 PM
Because I'm an oddball, mostly.  Sure a PC is the typically prefered way to do it, certainly more powerful control of things that way, and necessary for editing.   

It's just faster and easier for me this way, takes less gear, and is more portable.  I haven't really had a proper computer setup for audio editing for the last several year, my house is all torn up and half-packed, and other life-things keep following the path of least resistance.  Ironically I suspect moving to the F8 because I wanted easier access to 8 recording channels will now push me to getting both a computer editing setup and a portable surround playback setup going again.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: IronFilm on January 14, 2019, 12:27:03 AM
I'm picking up an F8 this weekend and looking forward to giving it a go.  I'm completely satisfied with the Tascam DR-680Mk2, yet want more than 6 preamp inputs with phantom.  Have recently been using a Roland R-88 on temporary loan, which will make for another point of comparison.  The R-88 is a very nice recorder, but large, heavy, and a generation or two older.

I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.

I went from a DR680mk1 (with a Sound Devices 552 front end) to a Zoom F8n (stopping along the way to use a F4 beforehand) and the improvement was hugely massive leap forward over the older DR680! Like night and day.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 14, 2019, 05:01:55 PM
I just picked up an F8 and have a couple of questions since I haven't taken it out in the field yet. First, can someone explain the difference between Poly Wav and Mono/Stereo Wav? Which one is better for our live recording applications. Second, I generally run 4-6 channels and gang the pairs on my 680 for easier trim control while recording, doing my post work in Audacity. What is the difference between stereo linking pairs versus ganging pairs for trim control? Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 14, 2019, 05:46:12 PM
I just picked up an F8 and have a couple of questions since I haven't taken it out in the field yet. First, can someone explain the difference between Poly Wav and Mono/Stereo Wav? Which one is better for our live recording applications. Second, I generally run 4-6 channels and gang the pairs on my 680 for easier trim control while recording, doing my post work in Audacity. What is the difference between stereo linking pairs versus ganging pairs for trim control? Thanks for the help.

When you stereo link channels, it automatically makes one of them the left and the other the right (for example, if you stereo link 1/2 it makes 1 the left and 2 the right).  Note that you can stereo link without diving into any menus (again using 1/2 as an example, while pressing track key 1 on the face of the unit, press track key 2).  For trim link, you can group as many tracks as you want and it doesn't impact which are assigned left, right, or mono.

I do poly wav because then I can just open the one file into Audacity, and then mess with individual tracks from there.  Poly wav puts all your tracks in one file.  So, for example, if you're recording using tracks 1-4, you'll get one wav file.  When you open that wav file, you'll see each of the individual tracks.  Note that the more tracks you're recording to a poly wav, the sooner you'll hit the 2 GB file split (you don't lose any music, obviously).  If you do mono/stereo "A single mono file is created for each mono track and a single stereo file is created for each stereo track."  Which is better for what we do is a question I can't answer...I started with poly and haven't seen a reason to change.

Note that if you have free channels you can engage dual channel record to make "safety" tracks.  Also note that the F8 has pre-record, which I find handy.  You may already know about these, but I figured I'd throw them out there.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 14, 2019, 06:06:26 PM
Thank you for the explanation. That was extremely helpful. I haven't gone through all of the F8 threads yet and am wondering if it's possible to gang pairs for trim control, like a 680, or do you have to adjust gain on each track individually. If 1 and 2 are stereo linked, can you use one knob, say channel 1, to adjust levels for both channels?

****Edit****
I found the trim link function. So I am assuming that I can link 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, and 7&8 and control gain for each pair, or assign all 8 together if I wanted. Need to do some more playing around with it before taking it out in the field.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 14, 2019, 07:15:27 PM
Thank you for the explanation. That was extremely helpful. I haven't gone through all of the F8 threads yet and am wondering if it's possible to gang pairs for trim control, like a 680, or do you have to adjust gain on each track individually. If 1 and 2 are stereo linked, can you use one knob, say channel 1, to adjust levels for both channels?

****Edit****
I found the trim link function. So I am assuming that I can link 1&2, 3&4, 5&6, and 7&8 and control gain for each pair, or assign all 8 together if I wanted. Need to do some more playing around with it before taking it out in the field.

You can definitely link 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 and then you'd control the levels of each by just using the 1, 3, 5, and 7 knobs.  That's what I do (other than when I'm running the ambisonic mic).  I've never tried to group the channels otherwise, so I'm not sure about the answer to that.  I prefer to keep my stereo pairs linked, rather than adjusting the level of each mic individually, so that's how I set it up originally and I haven't changed that.  I'd say mess around with it at home...you could always reset the settings if find yourself way down a rabbit hole with no way out :)
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 14, 2019, 07:53:12 PM
Unlike the 680 you can gang any combination of channels (they needn't be adjacent channel numbers like on the 680), adjusting trim for all using the lowest numbered channel in the group.

But the 680 makes it faster and easier to un-gang channels to modify the relative input balances between channels when necessary, re-ganging quickly again for global control, as no menu diving is required.  Its also much faster to make and break multiple groups.  680 wins out in this regard for me as I never need non-sequential channels ganged, but I typically balance each channel against each other in a stereo pair, then gang channels in pairs to balance each pair against each other, then gang all channels for global control.

Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 14, 2019, 09:22:31 PM
I'm on F8 thread 2 now and have not come across the answer yet. With all the updates with Firmware over the years, can TRS/line in carry phantom power now or not? Thanks for your help.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 14, 2019, 10:42:18 PM
So after getting through all 3 F8 threads, it looks like it can supply phantom power via either XLR or TRS connects but the difference is in input levels? XLR running much hotter than TRS? I just want to make sure phantom can be supplied regardless of the input type. Guess maybe I should bust out some gear and try it out for myself
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 14, 2019, 10:52:53 PM
Did a speed read, didn't see anything: 

Has anyone used this in 'interface' mode? 
With a Mac? 
In aggregate device mode, combining several different interfaces into a parallel input path? 

Love to hear any experiences. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 15, 2019, 12:04:44 AM
After hooking up my mics, I couldn't get TRS inputs to get phantom power. Am I doing something wrong, or am I correct in that only XLR inputs can receive phantom?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 15, 2019, 12:08:37 AM
I seem to remember that it can't provide phantom to TRS, but the F8n can.  Don't quote me on that though.


I've used the F8 as a USB interface a little bit.  See my eight channel bit bucket thread.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 15, 2019, 12:13:01 AM
I seem to remember that it can't provide phantom to TRS, but the F8n can.  Don't quote me on that though.


I've used the F8 as a USB interface a little bit.  See my eight channel bit bucket thread.

Thanks for the reply. I checked it all multiple times and just wanted to make sure it wasn't possible. Not a big deal but just wanted to know the limitations of the recorder's inputs.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 15, 2019, 12:18:53 AM
I've used the F8 as a USB interface a little bit.  See my eight channel bit bucket thread.

Thanks for the reminder, I had seen that and missed the F8 part. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 15, 2019, 01:44:50 PM
I seem to remember that it can't provide phantom to TRS, but the F8n can.  Don't quote me on that though.

Thanks for the reply. I checked it all multiple times and just wanted to make sure it wasn't possible. Not a big deal but just wanted to know the limitations of the recorder's inputs.

^I've  been intending to search for this, as it is a big deal for me. +10dB minimum input trim gain through the XLR mic-inputs is overly hot for some material given the sensitivity of my microphones.  I've assumed that if necessary I could switch to the TRS-inputs to achieve line-level sensitivity while retaining phantom powering.  That would be rather inconvenient in requiring adapters, yet doable.  However, if phantom powering is not possible via the TRS inputs this is a deal killer. 

This was not an issue on my first outing with this recorder a week and a half ago, setup by the board in a rather nice small club, although I did notice that I didn't have a whole lot of trim range left.  Afterwards I updated to the latest firmware which includes "advanced limiter mode", among other updates. 

Then, last friday I was running onstage just in front of a drum kit and was clipped a few channels at times even though the input trims were all the way down.   At the conclusion of the first set I realized this and engaged the advanced limiter across all channels.  This worked, but I do not want to have to rely on limiting in such cases. 

I'll certainly check this to confirm.  I'll also search for confirmation that the newer F8n will still provide phantom through the XLRs when input sensitivity has been switched to line-level if I switch to that recorder to solve the issue.

[edit- Zoom's F8n vs F8 Comparison Chart PDF seems to indicate that F8n will provide phantom through the XLRs when switched to line-level input.  The chart doesn't indicate phantom is available over the TRS inputs for either model, although it does not specifically indicate that it is not]
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 15, 2019, 02:28:27 PM
Anyone have insight into the workings of the Advanced Limiter? 

The standard limiter is familiar, with 20:1 ratio and user selectable threshold, knee, attack and release controls.

The manual states the following with regards to the Advanced limiter:
By detecting the maximum level in advance, this optimized
limiter prevents distortion even more than ordinary limiter
operation. The ratio is ∞:1, providing increased internal
headroom.

When set to On (Advanced), the input latency of the
increases 1 ms.


So it appears to be a "look ahead" limiter with a look ahead range of up to ~1ms.  The only user settings are on/off and Target Level.  It would seem that "target level" indicates a not-to-exceed ceiling (brickwall limiter) rather than an activation threshold, which the drawings on page 84 of the manual seem to confirm. 

Questions:
If Target Level is a brickwall ceiling, of what use is setting that to anything less than 0dBFS? (available user selectable value is from -16 to 0dBFS)
What is the effective threshold?  Is it variable?
What is the effective ratio? Is it variable?  Perhaps increasing above the effective threshold to ∞:1 at Target Level?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 15, 2019, 02:57:56 PM
Yeah I take it to be a  "look ahead" brickwall limiter.  I suppose the variable target level allows -1 setting in case of any stray overshoot, or for gainstaging a mix at lower levels with active transient limiting.  That would make sense combined with the automixer for webcasting meetings. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 15, 2019, 05:14:12 PM
That's what I suppose in regards to the intended usefulness of Target Level settings lower than 0dbFS (or -1dBFS just to be safe), since it seems to set a lower absolute limit which would otherwise be completely wasted (unaddressable) non-headroom.

I wonder at what level the advanced limiter engages in terms of threshold.  For our use as a safety function when recording, I would be very useful to know at what level the limiting begins to engage so we can shoot to peak at or below that when possible.  I suppose I could run some tests and look for the level at which the momentary yellow "limiting happening" indicator flashes.  But it would be useful to know if limiting actually happened after returning to the recorder, and also to be able to determine where limiting happened when looking at the waveform in an editor by noting where the level rises above the threshold.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 15, 2019, 05:32:59 PM
But it would be useful to know if limiting actually happened after returning to the recorder, and also to be able to determine where limiting happened when looking at the waveform in an editor by noting where the level rises above the threshold.

This may not be useful (or new) information for you, but when a track clips it leaves a red mark at the far right end of the level meter.  If you were to walk away and your track clipped, you would know it happened by seeing that mark when you came back and checked the recorder.  Note that I'm using the term "clip" pretty loosely here...I think it's just when a meter goes over 0, but it may also be when the meter hits 0.  I haven't dug into the manual to figure it out exactly because I haven't had the need.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 15, 2019, 06:02:48 PM
I wonder at what level the advanced limiter engages in terms of threshold.  For our use as a safety function when recording, I would be very useful to know at what level the limiting begins to engage so we can shoot to peak at or below that when possible.

It could be an adaptive circuit like the Aphex compressors used, which change threshold, ratio and speed based on the offending envelope.  That would be pretty advanced thinking though.  The look ahead limiter I use most in software turns up gain in relation to lowering thresholds, and the lookahead itself would be considered the attack time, probably is here too.  Curious what you find.  Can you play with test tones and/or previous raw recordings as input? 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 15, 2019, 06:07:04 PM
^ Yeah, will need to do that when I find the time.

But it would be useful to know if limiting actually happened after returning to the recorder, and also to be able to determine where limiting happened when looking at the waveform in an editor by noting where the level rises above the threshold.

This may not be useful (or new) information for you, but when a track clips it leaves a red mark at the far right end of the level meter.  If you were to walk away and your track clipped, you would know it happened by seeing that mark when you came back and checked the recorder.  Note that I'm using the term "clip" pretty loosely here...I think it's just when a meter goes over 0, but it may also be when the meter hits 0.

Yes, that's how I knew the first set of last Friday's recording clipped.  However I don't think that indicator will light if Advanced Limiting is turned on because no over is then allowed to happen.

At least I don't think it did after I turned Advanced Limiting on with a 0dBFS Target Level setting for the 3rd set, which I lowered to -6dB for the 4th set (as was unfamiliar with it and thinking in terms of threshold). However, maybe it does light if Target Level is set to 0dbFS.  I'll have to test this.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Cobiwan on January 16, 2019, 02:25:05 AM
I think I recall Tonedeaf maybe addressed this in his review of the F8 from 2015, but I am probably wrong. I read 4 different threads in a few hours and all the info is mashing up in my mind at the moment.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 16, 2019, 01:30:51 PM

^I've  been intending to search for this, as it is a big deal for me. +10dB minimum input trim gain through the XLR mic-inputs is overly hot for some material given the sensitivity of my microphones.  I've assumed that if necessary I could switch to the TRS-inputs to achieve line-level sensitivity while retaining phantom powering.  That would be rather inconvenient in requiring adapters, yet doable.  However, if phantom powering is not possible via the TRS inputs this is a deal killer. 

I'll certainly check this to confirm.  I'll also search for confirmation that the newer F8n will still provide phantom through the XLRs when input sensitivity has been switched to line-level if I switch to that recorder to solve the issue.

[edit- Zoom's F8n vs F8 Comparison Chart PDF seems to indicate that F8n will provide phantom through the XLRs when switched to line-level input.  The chart doesn't indicate phantom is available over the TRS inputs for either model, although it does not specifically indicate that it is not]

It is a fact that even audio engineers tend to want to deny that high output condensers can and will put out more than the +14dBu these inputs specify.  10 dB gain sounds innocuous enough, but it can be a frequent problem.  Mics turn into line level output devices pretty frequently!

I send Zoom some questions about where and when phantom can be accessed and got a response that they would check and get back to me.  Will post a follow up if/when. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 16, 2019, 02:32:36 PM
Zoom says: 

Quote
phantom power is still available when the Input Source is set to Line.

...when asked about the XLR's on the F8n.   Don't have a response yet about the TRS. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: vwmule on January 16, 2019, 02:50:15 PM
Whenever I run the F8, I use two external Tekkeons. Last night while recording Alejandro Escovedo, I noticed the deck powered down and scrambled to fix the problem. Even if one battery was dead or connection not firm, shouldn't the second have kicked in?

I'm not sure what happened.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 16, 2019, 04:36:16 PM
You have the two Tekkeons wired in parallel?  If so and both are "on" and supplying power, then the second should carry the weight when the first dies.  I don't use and are not familiar with Tekkeon batteries though, specifically if if and when they might shut off automatically.  Did one of the two still have sufficient charge remaining?  If not are they recharged through the same output port you are using to power the recorder? If so once one dies the other will be trying to both power the recorder and recharge the other battery which could cause it to discharge faster.

Regardless, one solution is to keep AA's in the recorder as backup.  That's good practice for powering redundancy and they wont be drawn from until the external battery shuts down or is disconnected.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: vwmule on January 16, 2019, 05:01:25 PM
I use one via Hirose and the other through the standard jack in back of unit. One of the batteries was fine as I was able to get the unit running again. So if one was good, why did it shut off?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 16, 2019, 05:40:10 PM
Quote
When multiple power supplies are connected, they will be used
in the following order of precedence.
1. Dedicated AC adapter (DC IN)
2. External DC power supply (Ext DC)
3. AA batteries in unit (Int AA)

Was it the Ext DC battery that died?  Maybe it doesn't go to DC IN (1) from (2) at all, but only to AA (3)?  Would it matter what order the batteries were connected in?  If (2) was connected when it powered up, and (1) was connected later, would it never see (1)?

How is the shutdown voltage set? 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 16, 2019, 05:55:44 PM
Powering priority is:

1- coaxial input
2- Hirose input
3- internal batteries

Coaxial input takes priority if power is present through it.
If coaxial input power fails, recorder switches to Hirose input if present, if not it switches to internal batteries.
If Hirose input power fails, recorder switches to internal batteries.

If using both the coaxial and Hirose inputs, power will be drawn from the Hirose input until the coaxial input fails. < Does the Tekkeon battery shut off if no power-draw is sensed?  If so it's not suitable for use as a secondary back up battery into the Hirose input for that reason.

This is why I prefer external batteries that use a latching on/off switch (battery stays 'on' until switched 'off' regardless of power-draw or not) instead of a momentary on/off switch.  A momentary on/off switch often indicates that the battery features a power-saving mode and will shut itself down if no draw is sensed after an amount of time.

If that is the case, the work around may be running the two in parallel into the same power input.   In that case each battery should then provide half the current drawn by the recorder.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Benderman11 on January 16, 2019, 09:26:33 PM
I use one via Hirose and the other through the standard jack in back of unit. One of the batteries was fine as I was able to get the unit running again. So if one was good, why did it shut off?

This is the same powering solution I use and have never had an issue with F8 switching power sources seamlessly.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: vwmule on January 17, 2019, 12:32:52 PM
> Does the Tekkeon battery shut off if no power-draw is sensed?

Don't believe so.

Maybe just a fluke. I did relocate gear in a pretty difficult room (City Winery in D.C.) so who knows. Think I may investigate other powering options as the Tekkeons are now a couple years old and were likely on shelf for a while when I purchased them.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 17, 2019, 01:12:11 PM
Think I may investigate other powering options as the Tekkeons are now a couple years old and were likely on shelf for a while when I purchased them.

The Talentcell that seems to be popular has been awesome for me.  If anything, it's overkill.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: rippleish20 on January 17, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
If you are concerned about draining the battery, one of the Tekkeons has a power switch and can be turned off until its needed
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 17, 2019, 03:11:44 PM
^ If that's the case here then that eliminates the potential scenario I described above.

I had a couple Energizer branded Li-Ions with momentary power switches that would shut-off automatically without a load after a while.  I also remember discussions at TS years ago concerning problems with "output voltage sensing" Tekkeon's which would sometimes output the incorrect voltage, but don't remember the details.  And I may have mixed them up in my mind.

The Talentcell batteries are in the category of those I was speaking of with a mechanical on/off rocker power switch.  I'm using the largest capacity version, which I think most others at TS are also using and honestly is overkill for other than a full day session at a fest or whatever.  However I prefer a comfortable excess of capacity over optimally sufficient capacity to extend usable life in two ways- less deep discharging required each cycle which should reduce loss of capacity as it ages, and less problem with insufficient capacity once capacity is reduced.    That said, talentcell makes numerous smaller capacity models which would be fine for most sessions, especially with only a few channels of phantom in use, and are easier to fly with if that's a concern.  The next smaller capacity is in the same size housing.  I think you need to go 2 models down to get a size reduction, and I believe there are two or three capacity ranges using that size housing.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 18, 2019, 01:00:35 PM
I've got an F8n coming. 

Very attracted to the ability to use it as an input interface with a DAW since I do a lot of that.  Hopefully no problems using it as part of an aggregate device combo under macOS.  I found one recording studio guy using a pair of linked F8 for 16 track capture, but he's not used them paired as interfaces with a DAW.    EDIT:  aggregate device works but is a little weird, and time code is not supported in interface mode.  Later post gets into details.

Playback and monitoring options vastly better than my DR-701D, which really only gives INPUT monitoring options.   

Being able to using arrays bigger than 4 is also very attractive. 

I do a fair amount of day job meeting webcast work, and I'm curious to see if the auto mix function works well.  I'm used to Yamaha mixers with the Dugan auto-mixer built in.  EDIT: seems to work fine, not as smooth as Dugan but respectable enough. 

Gotta decide on the battery approach.  I see the Talentcell guts have been redesigned so it's not as easy to modify the connector and power switch.  Wonder if anyone have sorted out a new path for that.  Likewise, not sure what the best option is in a battery that already has locking power switch and connector, surely much more expensive.  I may be overthinking that as a problem.  EDIT: the Talentcell still looks easy enough to modify, just have to cut part of a new circuit board off.  The controller PCB on the battery pack is still the same, they just added another PCB for the switch and jacks that's partially in the way.

Anyone used these 'slightly oversized' Ikea LADDA / Panasonic Eneloop rechargeables in an F8n?  I'd like to know they fit before ordering a pile of them. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on January 20, 2019, 12:15:43 AM
Anyone used these 'slightly oversized' Ikea LADDA / Panasonic Eneloop rechargeables in an F8n?  I'd like to know they fit before ordering a pile of them.

The Ikea AAs fit in my F8...can't speak to the F8n though.  I'd be shocked if the battery compartments aren't the same size in both though.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 27, 2019, 06:32:53 PM
F8n test reports:

Line input set to -10 will still clip at about -5.5dBFS with a line source; I was using the TRS input but it should make no difference which.  I know this because I was running tests with the F8n run in audio interface mode as an aggregate device with a MOTU 16A, feeding the same mono track to both devices to check sync stability.  -10 setting gives a level that matches roughly across the 2 devices, and if I turn up the source to that level the F8n goes flatline.  You can get more headroom with a phantom powered high output mic switching to line, but you don't get an additional 20dB as implied, this looks like an additional 15dB.  Still useful.  The quoted +24 dBu (at 0 dBFS, limiter ON) is not true with the limiter off!

the rest of this won't be of interest to most people here:

Aggregate Device and audio interface mode:  I wrote Zoom and the official response was:
Quote
This type of functionality may be possible, but is not officially supported.
Unfortunately, time code input and output are not available in audio interface mode.

I fired back a request to add word clock on the same BNC connectors as an option and/or allow time code in interface mode.  I have no idea what practical obstacles exist there. 
Lack of time code means it's free-sync, you can use 'drift correction' in the aggregate device, but there are latency differences to correct for AND 'drift correction' is a resampling of the input to compensate for clock drift.  I found you could 'sorta' correct it but the top end waves around in the breeze on a phase scope and there's an occasional outright skip in the phase response so it doesn't seem like something you'd want to really run with.   What does that all mean?  You’d definitely not get away with putting half a stereo image into one device and the other half into another, nor would a pair of stereo captures brought in via different interfaces maintain their relationship to one another.

I ran the same test again without 'drift correction' checked:  sounds like a phase shifter as the clocks work against each other.  No hiccups, just audible drift. 

I ran another dual mono test with the F8n sending time code to the MOTU 16A, and this was worse than I expected with significant drift within minutes, and the whole system had been warmed up several hours.  The imported WAV file from the F8n did drop into the correct time spot, but that was the extent of the 'success'.  This is a totally common problem with TV/film sync; every device is chasing the same start point from time code but the individual clocks are all doing their own thing and drift.  There was also a latency difference to correct.

If a word clock option was added, these drift problems would disappear.   

I ran another dual mono test with the F8n and 16A free synced, no time reference connection.  Practically the same result, pretty significant drift in about the same amount. 

I don't yet have a way to test with the F8n chasing time code from the 16A, and set for 'external audio clock sync' which is supposed to sync clock to time code.  This is the closest apparent thing to a word clock sync.   EDIT:  see next post for results


The auto-mixer function works pretty well, not as well as a Dugan auto-mix, but pretty good.  It can be a bit chattery sounding on headphones if several people are between words and breathing loudly.  I'd still be fine running a webcast with one.

Related to the above, the slate mic is useful in a pinch for some extra ambience, but ignores any auto-mix setting for the respective channel.  Just assign it to a single channel.  The only problem is when it's enabled, it ALWAYS goes to the headphones and blows up all monitoring choices.  If you monitor off the main or sub outs you get a proper mix, and can set the slate at some lower fade level. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on January 28, 2019, 09:03:58 AM
Thanks for the report.

Anyone used these 'slightly oversized' Ikea LADDA / Panasonic Eneloop rechargeables in an F8n?  I'd like to know they fit before ordering a pile of them.

I've Eneloops in the F8.  Too be clear, they are not Ikea brand and this is not the F8n.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on January 30, 2019, 08:18:32 AM
F8n chasing time code from the MOTU 16A, and set for 'external audio clock sync' which is supposed to sync clock to time code.  This is the closest apparent thing to a word clock sync.  This works pretty well.  I recorded an hour and ten minutes at 88.2kHz using 30ND LTC, set for ‘External Auto Record’ with ‘External Audio Clock Sync’ on.    The F8n did indeed start recording when I hit record in the DAW.  I found initial offset appeared to be low, in the order of a few samples.   After correcting the initial offset, by the end of the recording the offset appeared to be 1.6mS, fine for any mono source, probably fine across a typical multitrack recording, but fails the dual mono remix to mono test.  Now if this was only available in interface multitrack mode…..
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on February 04, 2019, 03:25:28 PM
Thanks for the report.

Anyone used these 'slightly oversized' Ikea LADDA / Panasonic Eneloop rechargeables in an F8n?  I'd like to know they fit before ordering a pile of them.

I've Eneloops in the F8.  Too be clear, they are not Ikea brand and this is not the F8n.

Powerex Pro's are a tight fit in the F8n, definitely need the ribbon underneath to pull them back out. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on February 18, 2019, 05:00:13 PM
Had my first serious multi-day outing with the F8 (not F8n) at a small festival weekend before last, with mics into all 8 channels.

After making an earlier onstage recording last month setup close to a drum kit, which clipped with mic-input trim turned all the way down, I figured the only way to ensure no overs with the sensitive mics I'm using was to engage the limiters.  If I was using an F8n I could switch to line-input sensitivity while retaining XLR input and phantom powering and gain 15dB or so more headroom which would've been sufficient.

I engaged the advanced limiter across all channels, set for a 0dB target level.  Note that with the advanced limiter one sets a "do not exceed target level" rather than a traditional "when it starts working threshold level".  I noticed this changes the on-screen metering to something that looks more like a VU or K-scale type meter with 0dB about mid-screen, negative dB values left of that and values up to +20dB to the right. 

The limiters worked. Content never clipped, peaking below +20dB.  Listening back directly from the recorder on headphones each evening after returning home it sounded good and I did not hear obvious limiter engagement, but I've yet to explore it more thoroughly. Presumably the effective threshold of the advanced limiter shifts based on what the 1ms look-ahead detects.  My concern is that a majority of content other than the relatively quiet sections had the meters bouncing above 0dB, leading me to believe the limiter is at least potentially working to some degree if not actively working most of the time for amplified content.  This little fest was not excessively loud.

I've searched but have been unable to find any discussion on-line that sheds more light on the actual workings of the advanced limiter and its practical application for music recording.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on February 18, 2019, 10:58:48 PM
I'd swear I saw one more in depth account of what the advanced limiter does, but I can't find it again.  Guessing it was either the Zoom site or a film related forum. 

I just ran an F8n life test with new Powerex Pro 2700mAh batteries that have been through break-in on a MH-C9000.
8 phantom powered mics at 88K2, outputs turned off, no headphones, time code off. 
3hrs 41.5 minutes
FWIW!
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on February 25, 2019, 12:11:47 AM
I multi-tracked an electric americana band in a house this weekend.  Used the F8n in interface mode with laptop DAW capture.  The input versatility of the F8n version proved very useful, I had a Neumann KM131 as sole drum kit pickup and a Sennheiser MKH20 on a bass amp, and both were set to line input mode with gain right around 0dB, on some louder songs gain was more like -3dB, levels in the -8 to -4 range.   The band was not terribly loud, no PA reinforcement other than vocals.    I used an MKH800Twin for a couple of acoustic guitar open air songs, left it in line input mode with gain around +30.   
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: tsioukas on March 05, 2019, 02:34:15 AM
I read Zoom F8 Manual (http://"https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_F8_2.pdf") (firmware v5.x) and I am little bit confused with this:

Quote
Audio Interface with Rec cannot be used with the following
settings and functions.
- Sampling rate settings other than 44.1/48 kHz
- SD Card Reader (> P.144)
- Audio Interface (> P.145)

So, with that you can't use “Audio Interface with REC” when use “Audio Interface”!!!

In page 145 describes how to enable these modes:
- Stereo Mix: This is a 2-in/2-out connection mode for Mac/Windows and sends tracks 1–8 as a stereo mix
- Multi Track: This is an 8-in/4-out connection mode for Mac/Windows and sends tracks 1–8 as separate signals

In v5 firmware they add this feature "Simultaneous Recording, Mixing, USB audio streaming (up tp 48kHz)"

I don't know if this is a documentation mistake but can someone clarify me that. Can I record in SD cards all 8 tracks (separated channels) and at the same time to use all these 8 tracks (separated signals) as input on my computer?

Thank you
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: heathen on March 05, 2019, 11:24:18 AM
I read Zoom F8 Manual (http://"https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_F8_2.pdf") (firmware v5.x) and I am little bit confused with this:

Quote
Audio Interface with Rec cannot be used with the following
settings and functions.
- Sampling rate settings other than 44.1/48 kHz
- SD Card Reader (> P.144)
- Audio Interface (> P.145)

So, with that you can't use “Audio Interface with REC” when use “Audio Interface”!!!

In page 145 describes how to enable these modes:
- Stereo Mix: This is a 2-in/2-out connection mode for Mac/Windows and sends tracks 1–8 as a stereo mix
- Multi Track: This is an 8-in/4-out connection mode for Mac/Windows and sends tracks 1–8 as separate signals

In v5 firmware they add this feature "Simultaneous Recording, Mixing, USB audio streaming (up tp 48kHz)"

I don't know if this is a documentation mistake but can someone clarify me that. Can I record in SD cards all 8 tracks (separated channels) and at the same time to use all these 8 tracks (separated signals) as input on my computer?

Thank you

I don't know the answer off the top of my head, but I could probably try it out at home and see if it works.  That'll take me several days to get around to, though.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: EmRR on March 05, 2019, 02:42:19 PM
I read Zoom F8 Manual (http://"https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_F8_2.pdf") (firmware v5.x) and I am little bit confused with this:

Quote
Audio Interface with Rec cannot be used with the following
settings and functions.
- Sampling rate settings other than 44.1/48 kHz
- SD Card Reader (> P.144)
- Audio Interface (> P.145)

So, with that you can't use “Audio Interface with REC” when use “Audio Interface”!!!

In page 145 describes how to enable these modes:
- Stereo Mix: This is a 2-in/2-out connection mode for Mac/Windows and sends tracks 1–8 as a stereo mix
- Multi Track: This is an 8-in/4-out connection mode for Mac/Windows and sends tracks 1–8 as separate signals

In v5 firmware they add this feature "Simultaneous Recording, Mixing, USB audio streaming (up tp 48kHz)"

I don't know if this is a documentation mistake but can someone clarify me that. Can I record in SD cards all 8 tracks (separated channels) and at the same time to use all these 8 tracks (separated signals) as input on my computer?

Thank you

You can only use 44K1 and 48K with 'audio interface / record'.  If you want higher rates, it only works as a interface. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: tsioukas on March 05, 2019, 05:14:57 PM
I got an answer from official support hat verify that it's possible to record on SD card all tracks and at the same time to use USB Audio Interface. I am still can't understand what they want to say on manual but it doesn't matter (maybe I am reading something wrong)

heathen, thank you I would appreciate your offer to test it, but as I got the official answer isn't necessary anymore.

EmRR, I know that (this is clear on manual). In my workflow for voice only live streaming projects, 48kHz it’s enough.

Thank again
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: cleantone on March 12, 2019, 03:46:32 PM
Stupid question. Looks like I lost my power supply for my F8. Do I have to drop $30 on one or will other 12v adapters work okay?
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Gutbucket on March 12, 2019, 04:32:08 PM
Other 12VDC power sources can work fine.

F8 works with supplies ranging from 9 to 16V DC
F8n works with supplies ranging from 9 to 18V DC

Not sure of amperage output requirement.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: Chomps on March 13, 2019, 11:48:26 AM
Stupid question. Looks like I lost my power supply for my F8. Do I have to drop $30 on one or will other 12v adapters work okay?


12V Plugged in will be no issue at all.

i can also let you use my wall plug if need be. Let me know.
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: 2manyrocks on March 13, 2019, 07:03:01 PM
I don't own one of these, but would guess you need to know which contact is positive and which is negative before using a third party power supply. 
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: noahbickart on March 13, 2019, 10:14:09 PM
I don't own one of these, but would guess you need to know which contact is positive and which is negative before using a third party power supply.

If only there was a sticky on Taperssection.com with this info!!! :banging head:

Oh wait, tgakidis has us covered (as usual):
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=150794.0;all  :headphones:

Zoom F8 (Hirose Port on the Side) / 9-16v / 4-pin Hirose connector / pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)
Zoom F8 (DC Port on the Back) / 12v / Size M, 5.50mm OD × 2.10mm ID / Center pin (+Ring (-)

+t Ted.

The version below is $9:
https://www.amazon.com/Tasodin-Adapter-100-240V-Transformers-Switching/dp/B072QZQGSJ/ref=pd_day0_hl_23_4/139-1133544-4174850?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B072QZQGSJ&pd_rd_r=348f3be5-45ff-11e9-bf30-a9c66916e9f7&pd_rd_w=o0MnX&pd_rd_wg=CZ1HK&pf_rd_p=ad07871c-e646-4161-82c7-5ed0d4c85b07&pf_rd_r=VA4BV97HCF7G6SBP4SK9&psc=1&refRID=VA4BV97HCF7G6SBP4SK9
Title: Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
Post by: cybergaloot on March 26, 2019, 07:53:13 PM
Started a Team board for these recorders: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=189986.0