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Author Topic: beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping  (Read 1685 times)

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Offline achalsey

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beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping
« on: February 27, 2010, 02:55:07 AM »
If this is not the right place, please let me know and I'll happily continue my search through more appropriate channels, but I have some questions!

I know next to nothing about taping, but I would really love to find out more.  Basically, I know you need a mic hooked into a recorder and a battery for that, and a program to transfer that to you computer.

My first question is where I could find these things cheap (and I'm not expecting quality since I am on a tight budget, just trying to get my toes wet)?

And, second, I'll be helping my cousin tour around the northwest in june, so how can I/what do I need to patch into the soundboard so I can seed the shows online?
 
Any help would be more than appreciated but, again, if this is not the right place, please let me know, I understand that this is a sort dumb question for real tapers site.

Offline acidjack

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Re: beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2010, 03:49:40 AM »
1. Define "cheap".  $100 won't get you very far.  $300 probably will.  Assuming you are operating on the standard definition of "cheap" for this board, the CW around here is:

Deck: Used iRiver H120 "Rockboxed" (~$100), Tascam DR-07 (~$129), Sony M-10 (~$299), Edirol R-09HR (~$299).

I use an M10 and had an R-09HR until I broke it.  I like both.  I don't know much about the DR-07 but people who use it seem to like it.   

Mics: Church Audio CA11, Church Audio CA-14 (both in the sub-$200 range), AT 853/SP-CMC-4 (some selling used around here for $150 or so now)

Pre/Power: Church battery box ($29), Church ST-9100 (~$130), Church CA-UGLY (I don't recall right offhand; less than a 9100), any of the Sound Pros battery boxes (SPSB-x; each hovers around $59-79 depending on feature set).

As I said, for around $300 you can have a really nice rig.  For much less, I think your options narrow dramatically.   Everyone has opinions, so I'm sure others will chime in.

2. There are posts on here about that that are quite long to repeat, so you may want to try using the "Search" function (it doesn't work great, but give it a whirl; there is a wealth of info.  I think there is also a "sticky" at the top of one of the boards, either "Ask the Tapers" or "Microphones and Setup")..
  But a general summary is:

Boards usually have three main types of outs:

RCA
1/4"
XLR

Recorders, assuming you get an "inexpensive" one, generally have a 1/8" stereo mini jack input.

So, loosely speaking, you need dual RCA>mini, dual 1/4">mini, and dual XLR>mini.  Most common type is probably XLR.  Most boards have "tape" outs that are RCA as well, I believe.

Also, keep in mind that board feeds tend to be very unpredictable; not only are they often "hot" and require attenuation on the signal (another accessory) but on their own, they usually are not mixed properly for listening at home.  Why?  Venues mic and mix for the audience, meaning the board mix usually heavily emphasizes that which cannot already be easily heard in the audience (the smaller the venue, the more true this generally is).   So, if you just take a straight SBD patch and nothing else in most small venues, you'll get a mix of mostly vocals a lot of the time. I think everyone on here would tell you that unless you're prepared to invest in a 4-track machine that can mix SBD+mics, you're really better off just using some decent mics like the Church mics.

Hope this is helpful to get you started...
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline achalsey

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Re: beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2010, 06:24:55 AM »
@ acidjack: I appreciate that immensely, thats pretty much exactly what I'm looking to find out. 

So, 500 was around what I was looking to spend.  I have seen a bunch of good reviews on the church audio mics.  But its good to hear some actual reviews.  Thanks for your input, from what I've read this seems like a good basis for a foundation.


Offline su6oxone

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Re: beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2010, 10:55:46 AM »
Your best bet may be:

1. Mics: Church Audio CA-11
2. Pre/power: Church CA-9100
3. Recorder: Sony PCM M10 or Edirol R-09HR

You may need to get some of these components used, but they are frequently found in the yard sale forum. 

Offline acidjack

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Re: beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2010, 11:09:01 AM »
So, 500 was around what I was looking to spend.  I have seen a bunch of good reviews on the church audio mics.  But its good to hear some actual reviews.  Thanks for your input, from what I've read this seems like a good basis for a foundation.

For $500 you are in good shape with the above.  Do you need to conceal the mics, or not (i.e., do you mostly run open, or stealth?). 

If you need to conceal and are willing to do a bit more work involving hats [which, if you need more info on, PLEASE discuss only on PMs], I'd go Church CA-14 or AT U853 (aka SP-CMC-4 from Sound Professionals)>Church CA-9100>R-09HR or M10.  I find the R-09HR is a bit more idiot proof, but the M10 sounds better slightly (better preamp) and has far superior battery life.  The CA-14 are harder to conceal because of their built in windscreens.  The Church pre is a nice add, but you can also shave some cost and still get perfectly good recordings if you just use a simple battery box for $40-70.

If you need to conceal the mics, I'd look into those Church CA-11s, though personally [ducks] I don't really like the sound of them that much (many others disagree).  Or if you can frequently get close to the sound source, the Church CAFS-Omni are quite small, inexpensive and seem to be well liked. 

If you don't need to conceal your mics, then you have tons more options, especially if you buy used.  A quick perusal of the Yard Sale will confirm this.

You should also be aware that while everyone here loves Church gear, you should assume some delay in build time depending how busy Chris is.  Even if you get an estimate, remember that is just an estimate and it could be substantially longer.  The Audio Technica products don't have that issue and can be delivered in about a week or two.  Note, though, to make sure to get the "low sensitivity" mod offered by Sound Professionals if you are recording amplified music of any kind. 
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline manitouman

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Re: beyond definition of newbie but google isn't really helping
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 12:20:44 PM »
What's wrong with Church mics/Church pre/and the Microtrack II? I've used this combo with great results. The MTII may not be liked by many but it is easy to use, just make sure you have all your firmware updates installed. I've used it for years and only had a problem connecting external battery power to it, two times. Upgraded the firmware and never had a problem again.

Will keep you in the $500 range, easily. MT II's go for under $200 brand new. Church mics/pre is under $300 brand new.

Just my $.02 based on personal experience  ;D Not dogging the other recommendations.
Mics: AKG CK31, CK32>LM 3> MPA III


 

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