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Author Topic: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume  (Read 4033 times)

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Offline jagraham

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CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« on: March 09, 2013, 12:29:20 PM »
So I ran my new UBB into the DR-2d mic in for the first time the other day and levels were a little low.  I understand with a BB the mic in should usually be used.  Settings were no power, gain low, volume 70.  The concern is that the levels were a little low and the file has to be amplified over 18db to get it to -.01.  Is there something I am doing wrong or is this normal?
Mics: Nak CM-300s, Nak CM-100s, CP-1s, CP-2s, AT-853s(Cards, Hypers, Omnis) CA-14s(Cards, Omnis)
Pres: CA STC-9200, CA-UBB
Recorders: Tascam DR-70D, DR-2D, Edirol R-09

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Offline asobriquet

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2013, 02:34:04 PM »
If the sound source is sufficiently loud this configuration works, but mic sensitivity cones into play as well.  Which mics are you running with the battery box?   I find that low sensitivity mics like DPA 4061 and CA14 will only have adequate levels when paired with my BB if the sound level is medium to loud.
Mics: SP LSD2, AKG CK-61,62 & 63, Naiant AKG active couplings x4 (TB cable/PFA), DPA 4061 (Church 1/8" mod), Sony ECM717
Pres: AKG Tinybox, CA Ugly Pre, BM2P+ UA-5, Busman T-Mod UA-5, CA Ugly BB
Recorders: Busman mod Tascam DR-680, stock Tascam DR-680 (x2), Tascam DR-2D (x3)

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Offline melvis1645

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2013, 04:20:14 PM »
I will be doing this tonight. I have 2 questions. Why mic in instead of line in? If the levels are low would it be better to go to medium gain and less volume? BTW CA14 mics>UBB>DR2D.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2013, 04:56:43 PM »
I will be doing this tonight. I have 2 questions. Why mic in instead of line in? If the levels are low would it be better to go to medium gain and less volume? BTW CA14 mics>UBB>DR2D.

If you don't have a MIC PRE AMP between your mics and recorder you should go MIC IN. A pre amp will amplify the microphone level to a line level (hence line in).

When you go mic in your recorder is the mic pre amp and it will amplify the signal to a line level.
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Offline asobriquet

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2013, 06:17:44 PM »
I will be doing this tonight. I have 2 questions. Why mic in instead of line in? If the levels are low would it be better to go to medium gain and less volume? BTW CA14 mics>UBB>DR2D.

Yeah, you can definitely increase the recorder (internal) gain from low to medium and it will boost the signal.  This is probably a good idea if the source sound is on the lower side and if you will be further back while recording.  Ideally, in this case, you would try to orient yourself closer to the sound source so that as little gain as possible is required.  A second approach would be to go line in using an external preamp (tinybox, CA9100, etc) which would likely provide cleaner gain than the stock DR2D preamps are capable of.

Mics: SP LSD2, AKG CK-61,62 & 63, Naiant AKG active couplings x4 (TB cable/PFA), DPA 4061 (Church 1/8" mod), Sony ECM717
Pres: AKG Tinybox, CA Ugly Pre, BM2P+ UA-5, Busman T-Mod UA-5, CA Ugly BB
Recorders: Busman mod Tascam DR-680, stock Tascam DR-680 (x2), Tascam DR-2D (x3)

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adrianf74

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2013, 06:29:37 PM »
It's what's being said here... if the levels weren't loud at the source, running line-in can be a lost cause.  I've had this happen to me on more than one occasion. 

What you'll want to do for "quieter venues" is to run the mics via the battery box plugged into mic-in (Plug In Power ON).  This should help you get levels that are more in line with what you want.

A battery box is often good enough (I use one pretty much religiously) but have run into you problem from time to time.  Hopefully this helps.

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2013, 09:23:27 PM »
I have run BB>M10 a bunch of times, and I ALWAYS run MIC-IN. Hell, sometimes with my 9100 I even run MIC-IN. The M10's preamps are much better than I EVER wouldve thought :)
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Offline swordfish

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 02:32:19 AM »
What you'll want to do for "quieter venues" is to run the mics via the battery box plugged into mic-in (Plug In Power ON).  This should help you get levels that are more in line with what you want.


I run my BB mic in without (PIP OFF)Sony M10...and had good results..where is the benefit to have the PIP ON...

I am pretty sure I ruined a recording with a BB and the PIP switched ON with a Korg MR1

adrianf74

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 01:51:20 PM »
What swordfish said but I'll add my experiences.

I've run AT-853's with a 4.7k mod into a UBB and have had some bad luck of late with levels.   As explained to me, the mod will drop levels on the mics by around -10 to -12dB which explains for "lower levels."  As Chris originated this mod, and I believe his mics have the same built into them, this could explain your low levels.   As mentioned, you can run the mics > battery box > mic in (plug in power ON) and this will solve your problems.   Some shows (especially in smaller dinner style venues or other such small rooms) will never be loud enough (i.e., if you don't need to wear earplugs, it's almost guaranteed be "too quiet" for line in purposes).  In these situations, a preamp might help but if you're trying to run super low-pro, then the mic in solution is the only real option available.

Hope this helps.

Offline LikeASong

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 02:42:48 PM »
Just out of curiosity, Adrian... Why leave the Plug In Power ON if you're already providing the mics enough juice with the battery box? Better leave PiP OFF and a) get the most out of your batteries and b) not run the risk of overpowering the mics/the battery box/whatever....... Or am I missing something?
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Offline yates7592

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2013, 04:35:46 AM »
Just out of curiosity, Adrian... Why leave the Plug In Power ON if you're already providing the mics enough juice with the battery box? Better leave PiP OFF and a) get the most out of your batteries and b) not run the risk of overpowering the mics/the battery box/whatever....... Or am I missing something?

Exactly what I wondered.

Offline jagraham

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2013, 07:50:23 PM »
^ Same here.  It seems like turning the recorders mic power on might introduce recorder noise.  After all if we are running in 24 bit, some amplification in post is OK.
Mics: Nak CM-300s, Nak CM-100s, CP-1s, CP-2s, AT-853s(Cards, Hypers, Omnis) CA-14s(Cards, Omnis)
Pres: CA STC-9200, CA-UBB
Recorders: Tascam DR-70D, DR-2D, Edirol R-09

ISO: 1 Teac ME-120, CP-3 Caps, AT-853 Subcard Caps

Offline jagraham

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2013, 01:57:11 PM »
What you'll want to do for "quieter venues" is to run the mics via the battery box plugged into mic-in (Plug In Power ON).  This should help you get levels that are more in line with what you want.

Anyone done this with CA-14 Cards? Or any CA mics for that matter? The shows where I had low levels were by no means quiet but I got low levels.
Mics: Nak CM-300s, Nak CM-100s, CP-1s, CP-2s, AT-853s(Cards, Hypers, Omnis) CA-14s(Cards, Omnis)
Pres: CA STC-9200, CA-UBB
Recorders: Tascam DR-70D, DR-2D, Edirol R-09

ISO: 1 Teac ME-120, CP-3 Caps, AT-853 Subcard Caps

Offline shownomarcy

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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2013, 02:55:20 AM »
I recorded thru line in but I should have tried mic in because I needed +30 db and I added some vol up even in post... but its ok
ca-14 (omni) mics > ca-9200 (+30 db) > Tascam DR-2d (line in) [16bit, 44,1 khz]
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Re: CA-UBB > DR-2d(MicIn) - low volume
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2013, 01:57:08 PM »
I recorded thru line in but I should have tried mic in because I needed +30 db and I added some vol up even in post... but its ok
ca-14 (omni) mics > ca-9200 (+30 db) > Tascam DR-2d (line in) [16bit, 44,1 khz]
https://soundcloud.com/m-rton-sebesty-n-shownomarcy/rs-2013-05-30-kecskem-t


Sounds good, nice job!
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

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