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Author Topic: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10  (Read 2054 times)

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stevetoney

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ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« on: June 14, 2013, 12:36:55 PM »
This isn't a blind comp.  If you can, please don't listen from the archive...download a file or two and listen to the uncompressed files.  Here are the links to the 16bit versions:

Schoeps mk4 > Schoeps m221b > EAA PSP-2 > Benchmark AD2K+ > Tascam DR-680
http://archive.org/details/moe2013-05-26.mk4_16bit

Schoeps MK4[DIN/FOB/DFC] >>> Schoeps M221B >>> E.A.A. PSP-2 >>> Darktrain Silver Interconnects >>> Sony PCM-M10[24-Bit/44.1kHz]
http://archive.org/details/moe2013-05-26.mk4.psp2.m10.flac16


The methodology of this comp was that the XLR outputs of the PSP2 were connected to the AD2K+ inputs and the AES/EBU digital stream was recorded from the digital input of the DR680.

In parallel, the 1/8 inch analog output on the PSP2 was connected to the line in jack on the M10.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 12:43:53 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline hi and lo

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2013, 12:56:24 PM »
Sorry to question methodology here, but why wasn't the post processing performed by the same person using identical workflow? People always complain about the variables that can't be controlled, but not controlling the post-processing workflow leaves a lot in question.

I did the same comp last week w/ my psp2 for a Futurebirds recording. I'd be happy to post my results if anyone would be interested.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 12:58:12 PM by hi and lo »

Offline edtyre

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2013, 05:19:15 PM »
The AD2K+ version sounds better. I expect it to sound better. I ran one for a while and wish i still had mine.
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline hi and lo

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2013, 05:32:11 PM »
Not trying to shit on your comp! I'm also not implying that different DAW algorithms impart sonic differences.

The most important aspect of a comp, scientific or not, is to ensure that the peak and average loudness level are as close as possible; normalizing an entire show to the same level will never (with no uncertainly) achieve that goal. It's really only possible using a short clip or single song.

I would love to compare the results of this comp with my own. Would it be possible for you + bean to send me 1 song of the unedited master? I'd be happy to process and publish those files, along with my Futurebirds comp.

stevetoney

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2013, 06:07:21 PM »
I don't have the unedited master of the AD2K+ version anymore.  I bump the levels of my raw files, whack the dead space at the beginning and the end, and then that's what I save as my master.

stevetoney

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2013, 06:39:31 PM »
My thoughts from the comp are that the AD2K+ provides a more authentic soundstage and a fuller bottom end, but mids and highs sound comparable. I was a little surprised that they sound as diffferent as they do...different flavors if you will.  By the same token, if I were starting from scratch, the sound differences in flavor and soundstage wouldn't be enough to induce me to have to have an AD2K+ in my bag.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 06:46:13 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline Todd R

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2013, 08:09:38 PM »
Thanks for putting this out there!

FWIW, I can understand why Hi and Lo made the comment. I don't think I need a single person to do the transferring, but it's important to know what was done to the files. Bean's says just normalizing and dither, so I'm assuming that's it (though I know he has often talked about multiband compression). Your file just says mastered by tonedeaf, which had left it pretty open as to what was done. Sounds like it was also just normalization, etc.

I was initially concerned that mastering might mean compression, EQ, rolloff, low end shelfing or whatever. I know there often gets to be lots of griping about comps which I don't want to get into. But it is important to know what you're trying to compare. Major mastering probably has even more of an effect than even placement or mics, so folks need to know if that was done before they try to compare an ADC, which I would expect to have very little overall impact on the sound, all things considered.

Anyway, enough of that -- off to listen to the files!
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

stevetoney

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Re: ADC Comp; AD2K+ vs. Sony PCM-M10
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2013, 03:24:59 AM »
^ You're welcome.

That said, you comment about every comp turning into griping about the method and not intending to turn this thread into that, yet your first post is post commenting about method.  I know you're not griping, but c'mon Todd.  You were the person that asked for the comp and the first thing you're gonna do is add questions about what was done instead of just listening to the files?!? 

Of course there was nothing done in post on these other than adjusting levels.  Do you think I'd put up a comp of sources that had been messed around with in post?  Does ANYBODY?

I'm locking this thread.

Virtually every comp immediately turns into discussion or Q and A about the method.  I'm not interested in that for this one.  Very simple comp...very simple results.  Take em or leave em. 

I admit to having very thin skin on this and I realize the earlier comments may not have been critiques, but I just don't want this thread going down that road.

The files are out there for people to listen to.  If you find value in that, good!  The comp achieved what it intended. 
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 06:42:48 AM by tonedeaf »

 

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