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Author Topic: Tinybox Question... Help Needed  (Read 2771 times)

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cashandkerouac

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Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« on: June 21, 2013, 03:15:54 PM »
I am trying to order some new cables in order to run my MKH8040 mics into my Tinybox.  I currently have a dual XLR > 6-pin mini-XLR adapter cable that I purchased from Naiant and that works just fine.  However, I want a set of cables that terminates into a smaller connection than XLR and figured that mini-XLR made sense.  In order to make that work with my Tinybox I'll also need an adapter that goes from a dual mini XLR > single 6-pin mini-XLR. 

I have excahnged multiple emails with Jon at Naiant to obtain this information, but he says he is unable to provide the info I am requesting.  Why?  I have no idea.  I have provided the exact specs of my Tinybox; and other than the output transformers, it's a standard configuration in terms of power and gain settings with a 6-pin mini-XLR connector.   If anyone can assist with the pin assignments for the new cables and the adapter cable I would be extremely grateful.

Thanks in advance for any assistance that can help get this done.  I'm probably not the only one who wants new cables and adapters for a Tinybox, so the info is likely of value to others.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 03:38:06 PM by bass_ur_face »

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 03:33:52 PM »
PM Robb aka darktrain or Ted. Doesn't sound too hard to do. Sounds like a simple enuf solution ???
Recording Gear:
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cashandkerouac

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 03:37:44 PM »
PM Robb aka darktrain or Ted. Doesn't sound too hard to do. Sounds like a simple enuf solution ???

already done, but i thought it couldn't hurt to post this publically.  other folks will likely benefit from the info.

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 04:22:04 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the question. Your current setup is:

MKH8040 > XLR Cables > Dual XLR to TA6F > Tinybox

and you want to go to:

MKH8040 > Dual XLR to Dual TA3M > Dual TA3F to TA6F > Tinybox

Is that what you want to do?

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 04:32:37 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the question.

ditto. I'm a little fuzzy on this one. Are you trying to eliminate the 8040s XLR piece on the body and do the direct cable or something else? (I thought the 8040s had an adaptor to get to full sized XLR and it was optional).
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

cashandkerouac

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 04:32:58 PM »
i received some add'l info, which is helping to put things into perspective.  i'm sure Jon will chime in if this is not correct, but it seems that Jon doesn't keep records on the boxes he builds.  i'm also starting to get the impression that there is no such thing as a "standard configuration" for a Tinybox, a concept that is difficult to comprehend since Nainat offers a base model with what appears to be a "standard configuration".  i didn't have to tell Jon what mics i was using when i ordered the Tinybox, so i assumed that all 6-pin connectors on a box with the "standard" power and "standard" gain settings would have the same pin assignments as any other Tinybox.  evidently not. 

the more info i get the more confused i am.  for just about every other audio pre-amp on the planet i can easily order new cables with very basic and easy-to-locate information.  i had no idea that the Tinybox was such a different animal.  so every time i have a question about my Tinybox or need to order an accessory do i need to send it in to Jon for a forensic exam?

i'm not trying to be sarcastic or a douche.  i'm seriously trying to understand why this request about pin assignments is so difficult for a Tinybox, but not for any other equipment that i own.   
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 04:40:30 PM by bass_ur_face »

cashandkerouac

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 04:38:45 PM »
I'm not sure I understand the question.

ditto. I'm a little fuzzy on this one. Are you trying to eliminate the 8040s XLR piece on the body and do the direct cable or something else? (I thought the 8040s had an adaptor to get to full sized XLR and it was optional).

i'm trying to reconfigure the cables between my MKH8040s and my Tinybox to make the set-up more compatible for  >:D applications.  the main driver for the new cables is the elimination of an XLR connector on the pre-amp end so that i can route the mic cables through a pair of croakies.  it's very hard to shove an XLR connector through that little croakie hole. 

in order to route the cables through a pair of croakies they cannot be terminated into a single 6-pin connector; the cable terminations must be separate, which is why i need the dual mini-XLR > single 6-pin adapter to connect to the Tinybox input.   
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 04:44:12 PM by bass_ur_face »

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 04:41:23 PM »
i'm seriously trying to understand why this request about pin assignments is so difficult for a Tinybox, but not for any other equipment that i own.   

you have the gist of it as I understand it; the tinybox units that Jon builds are basically all custom projects. It works out to something like 40 different combinations of features and whatnot. The 6 pins you have can be something very different than what the 6 pins are for someone else's box depending on what features they requested. Thats one of the purposes of the adapter cable.

If you wanted Ted or Rob to build a set of cables that eliminate the adapter cable, you would need to test the voltages and pin-out pass through of your adapter cable. Short of that, ship it to one of them (or Jon) and let them test it.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

cashandkerouac

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 04:57:19 PM »
i'm seriously trying to understand why this request about pin assignments is so difficult for a Tinybox, but not for any other equipment that i own.   

you have the gist of it as I understand it; the tinybox units that Jon builds are basically all custom projects. It works out to something like 40 different combinations of features and whatnot. The 6 pins you have can be something very different than what the 6 pins are for someone else's box depending on what features they requested. Thats one of the purposes of the adapter cable.

If you wanted Ted or Rob to build a set of cables that eliminate the adapter cable, you would need to test the voltages and pin-out pass through of your adapter cable. Short of that, ship it to one of them (or Jon) and let them test it.

if i had a highly customized Tinybox this ^ would make a lot more sense.  but the only option on my Tinybox is the output transformers; and when i contacted Jon about the pin assignments i provided the info about my configuration... standard gain settings, standard power settings (high power is +48phantom/active, low power is +16v phantom), 6-pin mini-XLR input, 1/8" mini output.  so if i ordered this configuration and someone else ordered the exact same configuration you're telling me that Jon would have potentially built the two boxes with different pin assignments for the mini-XLR input?   it makes no sense.  but if true, no wonder this is such a mess to sort out.   

 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 05:16:03 PM by bass_ur_face »

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 05:05:52 PM »
I have a quick and smartass answer for you. Buy schoeps :P ;D JK

I have no idea what needs to be done. Maybe Robb or Ted will chime in!
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41v (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax {3.5mm} | FiiO LC 2.5c {2.5mm} ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 15 5570-5521 Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

cashandkerouac

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Re: Tinybox Question... Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 05:40:36 PM »
What doesn't make sense is that until this thread I did not have the information that you wanted to run MKHs with mini-XLRs into tinybox, which won't work.  When I get a question about 3-pin mini-XLR input to tinybox, that is normally a 3-wire mic (AT, Nak, CMR) question.   All P48 boxes have some things in common but there are boxes that can support multiple configurations other than P48.  Those boxes will have different pin configurations than a plain P48 tinybox.

P48 requires the full-size XLR adaptor cable because there are components in that cable, so you cannot eliminate the full-size XLR adaptor.  You could have mini-XLRs spliced onto the XLR cables you are currently using to the adaptor cable.

The possible total number of configurations is larger than 40; there are probably dozen common input configurations, two amp options, and a half-dozen output configurations (more if I count all options for the dual output, but some of them haven't been ordered).  That's 144 combinations, then you also have custom gain settings.  Now, I haven't made 144 combinations of features, but I've probably made about 40 ignoring custom gain settings, box color, etc.

Jon:  thanks for the reponse.  the added info is extremely helpful and will make for a much easier solution.  i'll continue to use the P48 dual-XLR > 6-pin mini-xlr, but will splice into the main XLR cable a mini-xlr connection so the cable can be routed through the croakies.  i was trying to avoid chopping up an XLR cable, but if that's the best solution for what i'm trying to achieve that's the direction i will go.         

 

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