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Author Topic: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder  (Read 2903 times)

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Offline Massive Dynamic

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Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« on: February 04, 2014, 07:35:19 PM »
Having just sold my all-in-one, I find I'm not ready to leave just yet. I still have some mics (Naiant X-X matched pair being converted to 1/8" miniplug), and the Sony M10 is probably the recorder I will pick up simply for rock solid performance and ability to handle the hot output of the X-X. I've used one before, and a flaky recorder is money wasted.

So, that leaves me with needing a recommendation for a battery box to power the X-X. The Sony's PIP isn't likely to cut it, so what else is out there? I don't think I need a pre-amp, and I'd like to keep this small and economical. Bang for buck, etc., etc. Tinybox is more than I want to spend if that helps narrow it down. 9V, stereo 1/8" input/output, no roll-off wanted. Thanks.
Naiant X-X > SP-SPSB-1 > M10
Superlux S502 > Denecke PS-2 > Hosa MIT-435 > M10

Offline Ultfris101

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2014, 08:51:29 PM »
Sounds like a Church Audio ugly BB is right up your alley
Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

stevetoney

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2014, 09:55:39 PM »
...or put the $ towards CA-14s which are known to work fine off of the M10's PIP.

Offline achalsey

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2014, 11:50:58 PM »
Have they been proven to work better than just 'adequately' though?  I don't follow the CA team thread or anything so I apologize if this is common knowledge, but I was under the impression that they would basically just get by at a VERY loud show. 

I only have one anecdotal experience with running -14s directly into an M10, when I had both, and it did work fine, but it was onstage at a tiny bar with a very loud band.  I assumed Chris would generally recommend a batt box over just the 5v from the M10, but I could be wrong about that.

That said, I think most would tend to lean towards ultfris's recommendation.  Could even be worth looking into a 9100.  It is a little bigger than the Ugly, but obviously the option to add gain if needed can be nice just in case.

Offline Massive Dynamic

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2014, 12:06:27 AM »
I'm pretty sure the M10 only supplies 3V or so, so it would barely power the X-X. The UBB does seem like just the thing to try as a first option. And I know I like the X-X sound.
Naiant X-X > SP-SPSB-1 > M10
Superlux S502 > Denecke PS-2 > Hosa MIT-435 > M10

stevetoney

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2014, 07:38:51 AM »
Have they been proven to work better than just 'adequately' though?  I don't follow the CA team thread or anything so I apologize if this is common knowledge, but I was under the impression that they would basically just get by at a VERY loud show. 

I only have one anecdotal experience with running -14s directly into an M10, when I had both, and it did work fine, but it was onstage at a tiny bar with a very loud band.  I assumed Chris would generally recommend a batt box over just the 5v from the M10, but I could be wrong about that.

Massive Dynamic isn't going this direction, so this response is a minor threadjack, but if the m10 and ca14 worked fine during a very loud show, what other situation would you need them for where they might now work?  Obviously, if you need more gain for quiet recording situations, then a preamp might be necessary, but your anecdotal experience would indicate there's enough power from  the M10's PIP even for the really loud shows.

Offline achalsey

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2014, 10:46:12 AM »
That's true I suppose.   I'm just not sure I would trust that it would always be loud enough to support the low voltage.  I would personally go for the 'better safe than sorry' route.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2014, 02:59:56 PM »
Have they been proven to work better than just 'adequately' though?  I don't follow the CA team thread or anything so I apologize if this is common knowledge, but I was under the impression that they would basically just get by at a VERY loud show. 

I only have one anecdotal experience with running -14s directly into an M10, when I had both, and it did work fine, but it was onstage at a tiny bar with a very loud band.  I assumed Chris would generally recommend a batt box over just the 5v from the M10, but I could be wrong about that.

Massive Dynamic isn't going this direction, so this response is a minor threadjack, but if the m10 and ca14 worked fine during a very loud show, what other situation would you need them for where they might now work?  Obviously, if you need more gain for quiet recording situations, then a preamp might be necessary, but your anecdotal experience would indicate there's enough power from  the M10's PIP even for the really loud shows.

Again define a really loud show?? What does that mean in decibels? Where was most of the energy in the low end mid range high end? Nobody can answer that. So again I say and because I make these mics and because many people dont end up with crap recordings, because they follow my simple advice.. BUY A BATTERY BOX!!! There is a reason I only sell them for $29 and its not because I want to be able to retire.. Its because I dont want to see customers recordings get ruined. You may get away with it sometimes but there will be a recording where you dont and you will have no idea until you get home and listen to it. So use a battery box I dont care if its mine or some other company but use one with my mics PLEASE The mics were designed to work the best with a 7-9v supply I designed them around that voltage. Yeah they will work at 1.5 volts.. but they will not perform the same as they would on a large supply voltage.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:01:31 PM by Church-Audio »
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adrianf74

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2014, 03:31:08 PM »
I don't know how many times it's been said that the CA-14's and the M10 ideally need a battery box in the middle.  It works, sure, but you know that guy Murphy and and some law that he wrote, right?  It'll be that one time you didn't run a battery box that you'll end up with crapola.

I did that ONCE in my life (and not even with CA-14's) and would *NEVER* risk it again.  It's just not worth it.   There's nothing smaller/lighter/more portable than CA-1x mics, an Ugly BB and an M10.  If you can't handle/deal with that, you shouldn't be taping.  End of story, really.  :)

Marshall7

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2014, 03:57:41 PM »
If you can't handle/deal with that, you shouldn't be taping.  End of story, really.  :)

That says it right there, Adrian.  And yet these threads continually pop up.  "Do I need a battery box"?  Chris says yes, and who would know better?

stevetoney

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2014, 05:10:31 PM »
Sorry for perpetuating this issue.  My response was based on reading about enough people saying they'd successfully used the m10's PIP for concert recording.  I definitely agree that it's better safe than sorry, especially when Chris points out that he sells battery boxes for $29.

Offline Massive Dynamic

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2014, 05:27:24 PM »
I'll add that I once used the M10 PIP to power a pair of Countryman B3. The show wasn't super loud, the recording sounded fine, but the waveform wasn't quite right. After that I got the B3s 4.7k-modded and used my littlebox to power them until I sold them both.

Someone may correct me, but I thought underpowering mics would make them more likely to distort at higher SPLs. For lower SPLs, you might occasionally get by with only 3V, like I did.
Naiant X-X > SP-SPSB-1 > M10
Superlux S502 > Denecke PS-2 > Hosa MIT-435 > M10

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2014, 05:35:43 PM »
Sorry for perpetuating this issue.  My response was based on reading about enough people saying they'd successfully used the m10's PIP for concert recording.  I definitely agree that it's better safe than sorry, especially when Chris points out that he sells battery boxes for $29.
No problem :) I just wanted to make sure that this info gets out there. I wish I could get a little info file pinned in the mics and preamp section of this board. That could be used for Retailers to post important info about the products we sell.
for warranty returns email me at
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Offline robeti

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2014, 06:02:15 PM »
  There's nothing smaller/lighter/more portable than CA-1x mics, an Ugly BB and an M10.  If you can't handle/deal with that, you shouldn't be taping.  End of story, really.  :)

I fully agree.
mics: nakamichi cm-50 | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 (c)
power: ca-ubb (x2) | ca-9200
recorder: roland r-05 (x2)
video: panasonic hdc-sd600 | panasonic hdc-700 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline Ultfris101

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Re: Starting over: mics > battery box > recorder
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2014, 06:45:10 PM »
I'll add that I once used the M10 PIP to power a pair of Countryman B3. The show wasn't super loud, the recording sounded fine, but the waveform wasn't quite right. After that I got the B3s 4.7k-modded and used my littlebox to power them until I sold them both.

Someone may correct me, but I thought underpowering mics would make them more likely to distort at higher SPLs. For lower SPLs, you might occasionally get by with only 3V, like I did.

Exactly. I had todo it once as well with some 4061's and for the most part it was ok but in louder lower frequency parts it was a little distorted and it wasn't a very loud show overall. Some low end roll off helped a lot but it's still there. Use a bb!

Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

 

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