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Author Topic: Improved PAS setups - better imaging with higher direct-sound/reverberant ratio  (Read 9678 times)

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Offline Ultfris101

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I totally forgot about the Mic Tools app! Yes, the performer's angle measurement tool is great! Just used it for the first time a few weeks ago.
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Offline MIQ

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Thanks Ultfris101!

We just added that functionality to the Stereo Mic Tools App in the latest release.     ;D

-Miq

Offline voltronic

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Thanks Ultfris101!

We just added that functionality to the Stereo Mic Tools App in the latest release.     ;D

-Miq

Any consideration for an Android version?
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Offline MIQ

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Sorry Voltronic coding for iOS is enough fun for us.

-Miq

adrianf74

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Sorry Voltronic coding for iOS is enough fun for us.

-Miq

Android gets no love.  Have no Apple products in my household and am not about to start now.  I'll just stick to the table as a graphic on my phone and the compass -  does the job perfectly.  Now if only my SGC clips played nicely with my couplings, I'd be happy.

Offline MIQ

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Hi adrianf,

That sounds like a solid way of doing it. We are just happy that more people are applying the Stereo Recording Angle approach to setting up their mics. As with most stuff, there are lots of ways to get there. 

Miq

Offline Gutbucket

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Royal we?  ;)
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Offline MIQ

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Royal we?  ;)

 :D
I always say "we" when I write about the app because there are two of us working on it.  My buddy Rob writes all the code.  I should realize that's not apparent.  :facepalm:

Rob and I are happy people are applying the concepts regardless of the process they use.  Our app just pulls together a few tools in one place to make it a little more streamlined.

Miq

 

Offline carlbeck

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As always Gutbucket, great job on the write up & thanks for making me open my eyes to different techniques. I ran my AKG's DINa & my Telefunkens PAS last night on the same stand, I'm converted now. The DINa is a fine recording but when I switch to the PAS I can hear less room, better impact & the same soundstage without the extra "ambiance" of the room. It's an eye opening experience & as you stated in one of your threads regarding this subject, why get a great imaging recording of room reverb? PAS still gave me great imaging with better impact, thanks! As a side note, I can't believe how much more information there is on this site vs when this place was in its infancy, kudos to all!
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



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Offline Gutbucket

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Hey thanks, Carl.  And thanks for posting here with your real-word feedback.

Of course I really want it all, including good ambient/reverberant imaging too!  It's just that, that stuff is just further down the list of what's most important and this helps shuffle the priorities around.
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Offline huskerdu

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This is awesome...thanks!
"The main difference between a singer/songwriter and a puppy is that eventually a puppy will quit whining." - Jason Ringenberg

Offline Cobiwan

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Any advice on running Nak CP-4s PAS? What spacing should be used?
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
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Mics: Church Audio CA-14 omnis/UBB, Sonic Studios DSM-6S
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Offline carlbeck

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Any advice on running Nak CP-4s PAS? What spacing should be used?
The spacing used between capsules is determined by the angle required to PAS (point at the stacks or as close as possible) also the nice thing is that even if your mic bar isn't wide enough to achieve the desired angle you will still produce good results. All of this new found knowledge has me on a buying spree, I now have three new stereo bars in different widths to allow me to get the wide spacing preferred with the angles that PAS requires. Not to thread jack but look at the thread "New Rode stereo bar"
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Cobiwan

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So you're saying PAS spacing is same for shotguns as it is for cardiods?
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
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Mics: Church Audio CA-14 omnis/UBB, Sonic Studios DSM-6S
Pre-Amps: Lunatec V3
Recorders: Tascam HD-P2, Tascam DR-680
Cables: Schoeps KC (Darktrain mod), Gakables XLR, S/PDIF, battery and umbrella, DigiGal AES > S/PDIF, Darktrain hot swap battery

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Offline Gutbucket

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Here's the conceptual aspect of it-

The more directional the microphone's pickup pattern is, the less spacing is required for wide PAS angles.  As the PAS angle between microphones grows smaller, differences in suggested spacing also grow smaller.  At the limit with both microphones facing directly ahead (no angle between them) the spacing is the same regardless of pickup pattern.

In practical terms, the difference in suggested spacing for cardioids and for supercardioids is pretty minor.

Shotguns don't have smooth well-behaved polar patterns, and don't work very well as pairs in terms of stereo imaging.  Their pattern irregularities introduce complications which are more significant than these minor differences in spacing.  In general the same conceptual aspect applies though- if the PAS angle is narrow, space them more widely.  The values on the table are likely to be as good a starting point for a pair of shotguns as any.

I might use a shotgun from far back outside, but then I'd probably use just one of them pointing directly at the stage, placed in the center and mixed with a pair of widely spaced omnis.  The pattern irregularity would then be less of an issue and the imaging wouldn't be based solely on the angle/spacing relationship between a pair of shotguns.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

 

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