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Offline analogue

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2014, 06:22:23 PM »
I think you forgot that the Sony M10 test was at max gain and that the clipping level was -57 dBu.  Thus, the deck is hardly as quiet as you claim.

I dont understand how you measured distortion vs sound pressure level.  did you take into account the source distortion and what type of test did you exactly do.  our fets are hand matched and biased midpoint.

I used to work for a Silicon Valley linear chip company.  According to an audio pro distortion analyzer the old r-box design has about 6 parts per million THD.

I think we are in different markets. You want to make low cost items while we want to make audiophile quality items.  We'll just have to disagree.

Offline analogue

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #61 on: November 18, 2014, 09:08:23 PM »
John -- I said we will have to disagree.  It is way okay to disagree.

I am an EE.  I speak in terms of voltages, etc.   That is my training from my EE degree in college and working in Silicon Valley.  I don't know what you are talking about some sort of slander. 

I don't understand why you seem so upset when you think we are talking to different markets.  While you say that we are in separate markets until I mentioned something about your product, the fact is that you decided to post in a forum about our box before i had anything to comment about your boxes. 

I guess you feel threatened by our new box.  But don't be because we are talking to different people.

I am not sure why a cable apparently tested out as having high distortion.  You don't even say how much input voltage you applied and the real ability is to test the passage of a square wave.   Maybe it was a defective cable that needed repair.  Your talk about what someone else told you is pure hearsay.  We have no idea under which the tests were conducted or anything.

I don't think that our cables have horrible performance as the recordings sound good.  Look at all the great EdTyre recordings this summer.  Do you think they have horrible distortion and don't sound good?

If you disagree that these recordings do not sound most excellent, why not tell this community which specific recording using our gear sucks, and refer to one using your gear which is better?  After all, people want the best sound in the field -- not some paper specs.

1% distortion would be highly audible.  I have yet to hear any recording using our gear that has audible distortion.

So, John, I feel you are upset.  The key is what sounds best.  That is what the community wants.  So let the recordings speak for themselves and let the community choose what boxes they want?

You don't need to get in the "last word" as I sense you have some need to do.  Basically show me a better recording of a specific act using your box that is way better than ours or just agree to disagree.


Offline schoepsnbox

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #62 on: November 19, 2014, 09:05:49 AM »

^
Never once have I said a bad word about you or your products..if I have to be guilty by association then so be it.  But remeber this..I have helped  put food on your table by selling those cables which you and others have publicly bashed on here with your bogus specs and testing that is way off base.  I have purchased your PFAs and helped you sell tinyboxes for our cables but I'm done with that..like you publicly bashed another company for non payment I'm done with you too.   
Please stay out of my threads and I will stay out of yours, oh and grow up dude :-*

Offline willndmb

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #63 on: November 19, 2014, 09:20:02 AM »
I should prob mind my own business but just wanted to say that Jon and Nick have both come out with great products.
They both have wonderful knowledge and support.  Although the products are similar they differ and the pros/cons appeal to the needs of different people at times.
I don't know if the specs are true, if one is really better then the other but I do know they both sound good and it is a shame that outsiders need to get involved.
The community will be much better off if people work together to assist the lay person, like me, in figuring out what's the best for that individual instead of best for the seller.
A wise man once told me, "the rising tide rises all boats". Let's rise the community up together!
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline blg

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #64 on: November 19, 2014, 12:57:45 PM »
Although I get it, I hate to see this. There is definitely room for both products.

Putting aside any personal feelings one way or the other, i'm grateful to both sides for making such great products.  I'm even grateful to Bill for the original Rmod box, even though i don't know him and never used one. Lots of great recordings were made using that, and i never would have heard them otherwise.
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Offline kingkita

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #65 on: November 19, 2014, 02:42:36 PM »

^
Never once have I said a bad word about you or your products..if I have to be guilty by association then so be it.  But remeber this..I have helped  put food on your table by selling those cables which you and others have publicly bashed on here with your bogus specs and testing that is way off base.  I have purchased your PFAs and helped you sell tinyboxes for our cables but I'm done with that..like you publicly bashed another company for non payment I'm done with you too.   
Please stay out of my threads and I will stay out of yours, oh and grow up dude :-*

I agree with you Nicky! I owned a tinybox and i didnt like it for one it couldnt handle taping FOB wsp without overloading on the low setting.I think team va got like 2 good recordings out of many attempts using the TB. Compared to all my other pre amps that can handle all the same music without issue.Great Idea and perfect for someone starting off.Bottom line if you want to have Schoeps True Sound Buy Real Schoeps Gear it is a difference.

Offline Jhurlbs81

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2014, 03:58:05 PM »

^
Never once have I said a bad word about you or your products..if I have to be guilty by association then so be it.  But remeber this..I have helped  put food on your table by selling those cables which you and others have publicly bashed on here with your bogus specs and testing that is way off base.  I have purchased your PFAs and helped you sell tinyboxes for our cables but I'm done with that..like you publicly bashed another company for non payment I'm done with you too.   
Please stay out of my threads and I will stay out of yours, oh and grow up dude :-*

I agree with you Nicky! I owned a tinybox and i didnt like it for one it couldnt handle taping FOB wsp without overloading on the low setting.I think team va got like 2 good recordings out of many attempts using the TB. Compared to all my other pre amps that can handle all the same music without issue.Great Idea and perfect for someone starting off.Bottom line if you want to have Schoeps True Sound Buy Real Schoeps Gear it is a difference.

So buy a VMS then?  :P

Offline kingkita

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2014, 04:02:02 PM »

^
Never once have I said a bad word about you or your products..if I have to be guilty by association then so be it.  But remeber this..I have helped  put food on your table by selling those cables which you and others have publicly bashed on here with your bogus specs and testing that is way off base.  I have purchased your PFAs and helped you sell tinyboxes for our cables but I'm done with that..like you publicly bashed another company for non payment I'm done with you too.   
Please stay out of my threads and I will stay out of yours, oh and grow up dude :-*

I agree with you Nicky! I owned a tinybox and i didnt like it for one it couldnt handle taping FOB wsp without overloading on the low setting.I think team va got like 2 good recordings out of many attempts using the TB. Compared to all my other pre amps that can handle all the same music without issue.Great Idea and perfect for someone starting off.Bottom line if you want to have Schoeps True Sound Buy Real Schoeps Gear it is a difference.

So buy a VMS then?  :P

Good thing I own 3 of them >:D

Offline edtyre

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #68 on: November 19, 2014, 04:35:05 PM »
All Schoeps gear sounds like shit, sell it to me cheap and go buy some AKG stuff  8)

Now somebody please go out and tape something instead of talking about bullshit.
Me personally, i don't care about any specs, just what it sounds like. I have heard plenty of Bill's recordings and Nicky's too.
Just sayin
music>mics>pre>recorder
ISO : MK41 single MK4 single
ISO : Nbob actives Schoeps Gefell

Offline acidjack

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #69 on: November 19, 2014, 04:59:54 PM »
I find this whole thread pretty "funny" for several reasons, but for my $0.02

- Lots of great recordings have been made with both, at least by the standards of live concert recording (which Jon correctly describes as

- If you want to talk about "sound" in a subjective sense, post a comp. "I made nice recordings with x" means less than nothing. I could post recordings I've done with Coresounds and AT3031s that smoke some Schoeps, but that most assuredly does not mean those mics are better than Schoeps. (FWIW there was a pretty valid-seeming one a few years back of NBox vs. bodies, IIRC). Even more true in the weird live concert recording space, where about 90% of the recordings, even by people who know what they're doing and have great gear, really aren't all that good. PA systems aren't "audiophile" to start with; a distant recording of one cannot and never will be "audiophile" as I think of it, because the source was not.

As to math, I don't know anything about the mathematics of this stuff and am glad somebody else does. But it would be incorrect to claim either product is unproven in the field. But "in the field" as we know it is already a highly imperfect place to test anything other than (a) does this product "work" (consistently turns on and provides phantom power and doesn't seem to cause more distortion than anything else) and (b) do I like the sound of it.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

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Offline Scooter123

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #70 on: November 19, 2014, 07:49:04 PM »
I've used both in field conditions.  I know nothing about SNR or anything else--I'm an idiot.  So here is my very amateurish and subjective review of both. 

I like the Tinybox because it is  ... well ... tiny.  The darn thing is the size of a pack of cigarettes. 

I disliked the Tinybox because of the jacks and the switches.  I really don't need much gain if any, and the jacks were goofy.  That said, I understand that it is a custom product, and probably could be made to order.  The rechargeable battery deal is fine for most shows but for festivals might it not work for me.  I had some clipping issues with the box, but I honestly think it was operator error (me) because of the gain switch (I may have had the setting wrong), as opposed to something inherent with the box.  That switch setting was confusing.  I have a friend that needs a small economic super stealthy preamp, and the Tinybox would be my first choice for him. 

I like the NBox because of the sound and simplicity.  When I got back into taping, I downloaded 100 of my favorite shows and looked at the equipment used.  About 30% of the equipment was Schoeps > NBox and another 30% was Neumann KM 18x > preamp.  The Schoeps > Box rig sounds great.  It is also stupidly simple--it has one off-on switch.  There is no way to goof up a recording with that box. 

I dislike the NBox because it is a battery hog and the Switchcraft plug is very fragile--I've broken a few.  It is also bigger.  I understand the new boards will have quadruple the run time.   

That said, based on my use of both, I picked an NBox.  I actually have three of them, one I use, one is a back up and redundant rig, and the third one will be a Platinum. 

I think both products are great, I just think one is best suited for a different kind of taping--The Tinybox for super stealthy economic jobs, and the NBox where quality is more important than size.  Each to his own, actually.  I'd love to get both if they used the same jack.    That's my opinion, and the more choices we tapers have the better. 

« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 12:42:02 AM by Scooter123 »
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline blg

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #71 on: November 19, 2014, 08:05:46 PM »

I think both products are great, I just think one is best suited for a different kind of taping--The Tinybox for super stealthy economic jobs, and the NBox where quality is more important than size.  Each to his own, actually.  I'd love to get both if they used the same jack.    That's my opinion, and the more choices we tapers have the better.

This is my plan. Use the tinybox when security is an issue, use the nbox when it isn't.  Despite what othere here have said, the difference in size is a big deal under certain circumstances. 

I love the sound of some of nick's recodings that i've heard with the new nbox. His NIN philly smokes.  But on the other hand, i've taped about 80 shows in the past year and a half with the schoeps > tinybox setup, and i've done some really good ones.  I've never had an issue with overloading as long as it's set on low gain.

Regardless, looking forward to trying out the nbox in the future.
Schoeps MK41 |
Naiant Tinybox v2.5 w/OT
NBob Actives v2
Sony PCM-M10 x2
dime LMA

Offline darktrain

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #72 on: November 19, 2014, 10:48:38 PM »

^
Never once have I said a bad word about you or your products..if I have to be guilty by association then so be it.  But remeber this..I have helped  put food on your table by selling those cables which you and others have publicly bashed on here with your bogus specs and testing that is way off base.  I have purchased your PFAs and helped you sell tinyboxes for our cables but I'm done with that..like you publicly bashed another company for non payment I'm done with you too.   
Please stay out of my threads and I will stay out of yours, oh and grow up dude :-*

I agree with you Nicky! I owned a tinybox and i didnt like it for one it couldnt handle taping FOB wsp without overloading on the low setting.I think team va got like 2 good recordings out of many attempts using the TB. Compared to all my other pre amps that can handle all the same music without issue.Great Idea and perfect for someone starting off.Bottom line if you want to have Schoeps True Sound Buy Real Schoeps Gear it is a difference.

I have never had a Tinybox overload ever and I have recorded a lot of Rock/metal in smaller clubs?

Offline blg

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #73 on: November 19, 2014, 11:09:46 PM »


I have never had a Tinybox overload ever and I have recorded a lot of Rock/metal in smaller clubs?

This has been my experience also.  I've done stack tapes in some of the loudest clubs around LA, and never overloaded.  A friend had an issue with distortion/brickwalling, but it was because he was running mid gain at some loud shows.  After switching to low, it was never a problem again.
Schoeps MK41 |
Naiant Tinybox v2.5 w/OT
NBob Actives v2
Sony PCM-M10 x2
dime LMA

Offline Scooter123

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Re: nbox platinum ...it's here.
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2014, 12:19:59 AM »
That was probably the same error I had and attribute the clipping to the switch setting in the Tinybox. 

I do like the size.  Size matters at some venues. 

All that said, the NBox sounds better to my ears and is easier to operate--one switch. 

I can't wait for the Platinum. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

 

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