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Author Topic: Zoom F8 - Part 2  (Read 71376 times)

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stevetoney

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2016, 12:30:09 PM »
If you absolutely hate using TRS connectors or don't have any available, there's an option available to us right now that everyone should keep in mind.  The two L/R channels can be set up as either pre or post fader, so if you set them up to be post-fader you can apply attenuation to the inputs via the faders.  Now, most will want to use this option if you're only recording two channels of inputs, but if you're running two channels and your inputs are peaking and you have no more headroom on the trim knobs, just make sure you're recording L/R to the SD card and apply attenuation via the fader.  I suppose you could use this option if you're using more than two channels too, but you'd need to do your L/R mixdown on the fly.

But wait -- I thought "pre or post fader" was only applicable to the mixer outs, not to what gets recorded to the card. Am I wrong on that? Are you suggesting that if you set them up as "post fader" you can somehow lower the input sensitivity of the entire input? That would be useful... just wasn't aware that was how it worked....

Yes, the faders are applicable to the SUB and MAIN outputs, but you also have a fader for controlling L/R, which can be recorded to the SD card as shown on Page 23 of the manual.  In my previous response, I thought you could route L/R either pre or post fader, but right now I'm not seeing any options for setting them up pre-fader, which makes sense since each of the eight inputs goes directly to SD card pre fader.  In any case, the L/R channels are on the output of the mixer which is shown on one of the input screens.  OK, so here's how to set it up...

The mixer option changed slightly with V2.00 of the firmware, but if you have V2.00 installed, first go into the SYSTEM menu and make sure that under the 'Trim Knob Option' menu, you've selected 'Trim'.  The other option is 'Mixer' which is a new feature installed in V2.00.

Now back out of the menu and toggle through the input screens.  Page 10 of the manual shows the input screen for the mixer.  Notice again that one of the outputs of the mixer is the L/R channels, which are displayed at the bottom of that screen.  On the mixer screen, as you toggle through the channels, you have to toggle through two separate settings for each channel; pan and fader.  When the fader is highlighted, click the big round toggle knob to engage the fader.  You're able to apply post fader gain from MUTE all the way up to +12db to each channel.

The above controls are redundantly available from two other places.  If you press the pfl buttons for each channel, as you toggle through the choices on the pfl menu, two of the choices given are fader and pan.  These are the same settings, so you'll notice that if you change those settings on the mixer screen, the setting will also change on the pfl screen.

Finally, you can pull up your ipod or ipad app.  On the mixer screen of the ipod app, the fader sliders for post-fader level control of the L/R channels are all the way to the right. 

One thing you might wish to note from all of this...if you set up your headphones up to monitor the L/R channels, don't forget to pan the L/R channels or else you'll hear a mono signal out of your headphones.  I actually always monitor L/R with my headphones because a) I can change the headphone volume without changing the input levels of what's being written to SD card and b) since I don't use the L/R channels to record and I like to get my headphones REALLY loud during the show by adding up to +12db to the L/R and headphone signal.  Obviously, if you're intending to use L/R for attenuation, you wouldn't want to use L/R the way I use it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:57:00 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline acidjack

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2016, 03:16:05 PM »
^ Got it. I see what you're saying. I forgot that you can route the L/R outputs back as a saved file. I guess it's still not totally clear to me that if what went in was clipped from being too hot that attenuating it on the way out would fix it, but curious...
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #152 on: February 08, 2016, 03:19:03 PM »
In any case, the L/R channels are on the output of the mixer which is shown on one of the input screens.

Wouldn't the signal have already passed the ADC at that point? I can't seem to find the ADC in the block diagram printed in the manual, but I would guess that happens before the mixer (so that you have a digital signal to mix). If that is the case, wouldn't you just be attenuating an already distorted signal?

Sorry if I'm adding further confusion to the discussion. ;)
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

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stevetoney

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #153 on: February 08, 2016, 04:33:39 PM »
In any case, the L/R channels are on the output of the mixer which is shown on one of the input screens.

Wouldn't the signal have already passed the ADC at that point? I can't seem to find the ADC in the block diagram printed in the manual, but I would guess that happens before the mixer (so that you have a digital signal to mix). If that is the case, wouldn't you just be attenuating an already distorted signal?

Sorry if I'm adding further confusion to the discussion. ;)

Don't be sorry.  That's what these forums are for.   :coolguy:

I don't know the answer.  I'm sure you and acidjack have a valid concern though. 

In addition to the comment about where in the chain the mixer is located, I think there's also the question about how the recorder gain structure is setup.  I'm not smart when it comes to interpreting recorder specs, but the specs on the F8 say that the maximum input level is +14dBu (at 0dBFS, limiter ON), but I don't know how that relates to the trim scale from XLRs/mic in, which the specs say is +10db when the trim knob is completely to the left.  So, again I'm no expert, but I suppose the question is, how much headroom, if any, do we have available to us when the trim knob won't go down any farther?

Perhaps next time I go out to record I'll run a second pair of mics and run L/R at say -20db versus the input and test out how high I can take the input above 0db before I start to hear the music distort.  Then I'll listen to both the input and L/R channels to verify whether they both distort at the same points.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 04:48:56 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline carlbeck

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #154 on: February 08, 2016, 05:15:39 PM »
Has anyone run their F8 with a Tekkeon 3300? What kind of run time should I expect with two or four channel's phantom power? The 3300 is rated for 36Wh. I've been running mine with my Astro & with the display lit, powering four channel's (two with phantom) I'm usually about 75% left at the end of a show, typically 6 hours total since I never turn my gear off once I set up. The Astro is rated at 20000mAh, run at 12v so I am thinking it's 20Wh? Make sense?
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
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Offline scorsesefan

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #155 on: February 09, 2016, 12:05:32 PM »
In any case, the L/R channels are on the output of the mixer which is shown on one of the input screens.

Wouldn't the signal have already passed the ADC at that point? I can't seem to find the ADC in the block diagram printed in the manual, but I would guess that happens before the mixer (so that you have a digital signal to mix). If that is the case, wouldn't you just be attenuating an already distorted signal?

Sorry if I'm adding further confusion to the discussion. ;)

Well, the input limiters and high pass filters are after the analog to digital conversion stage. But from what I understand the unit has plenty of headroom to handle most potential clipping. And then there is the safety tracks (if you're recording 4 or less tracks). Is this what is being discussed? Anyway, my technical knowledge of these things is somewhat limited but I have read this in several reviews...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 12:07:53 PM by scorsesefan »

Offline scorsesefan

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #156 on: February 12, 2016, 09:03:27 PM »
Anyone finding the Porta Brace bag (AR-Z8) a little snug for the F8 (to say the least). I had to really break it down to get the recorder in there...

Offline Benderman11

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #157 on: February 12, 2016, 09:09:50 PM »
Anyone finding the Porta Brace bag (AR-Z8) a little snug for the F8 (to say the least). I had to really break it down to get the recorder in there...

Not the biggest fan of this bag.  The plastic cover seems way too long and would provide minimal protection in rain.  The zoom doesn't sit level in the bag either.  Probably won't get much use with it.
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Offline scorsesefan

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #158 on: February 12, 2016, 09:29:57 PM »
Yeah, it's not great. The recorder sits OK when you loop the top straps into the F8. I have my buddies SD 702T and his Petrol bag is designed much better.. Anyone have the one Zoom makes?

Offline pohaku

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #159 on: February 12, 2016, 11:16:42 PM »
Wiggle puppy has one.  See his response to my inquiry back on page 7.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh30, mkh40, md421, md431, md541
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Recorders/converters/monitors: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, zoom f8, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8, Neumann KH20


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Offline scorsesefan

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #160 on: February 12, 2016, 11:38:32 PM »
Wiggle puppy has one.  See his response to my inquiry back on page 7.
Thanks. Probably just going to live with the Porta Brace. It's functional but not ideal (and I don't feel like shipping it back :/)

Offline pohaku

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #161 on: February 13, 2016, 12:34:41 AM »
Mostly what I want is a protective sheath with access points since the unit would primarily live in my larger recording bag.  I just want something to keep it from getting dinged and scratched up in my bag.  May have to wait for the accessory market to catch up.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh30, mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, grace V2, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters/monitors: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, zoom f8, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8, Neumann KH20


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Offline Sebastian

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #162 on: February 13, 2016, 05:36:11 AM »
Is there any way to reset the clip indicator (rightmost bar on the level indicator that goes on when the signal is too hot)? I'd like to be able to make it disappear after I have adjusted levels, so that I can see if the signal is still to hot.
Schoeps { MK6 | MK41V | MK4 } > NBob actives > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Sony PCM-A10 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

stevetoney

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #163 on: February 13, 2016, 09:36:40 AM »
Is there any way to reset the clip indicator (rightmost bar on the level indicator that goes on when the signal is too hot)? I'd like to be able to make it disappear after I have adjusted levels, so that I can see if the signal is still to hot.

Yes, but unfortunately it's one of the shortcuts, so I don't know if you'd want to try using it.  Stop Button + 5 key at the same time.

Offline dactylus

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #164 on: February 13, 2016, 09:51:07 AM »
Just for the sake of conversation, I'm curious if anyone has approached Doug Oade about potentially modding the F8? 

The F8 price is more than attractive.  The review of the F8 preamps are the sticking point for me.  If I'm going to leave the Neve Portico 5012, the Grace V3's, the FiveFish TS-2's, the Mytek 192 adc or the sd722 at home I want the F8 preamps to perform on a higher level.  I am well aware that "you can't always get what you want".  If that wasn't the reality of the situation I'd be rocking a sd788 and not looking back.

No flames please.  As I said, just for the sake of conversation. 

Do I like a bargain?  You betcha...

;)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 10:37:24 AM by dactylus »
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