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Author Topic: DPA d:VICE just announced  (Read 53988 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #330 on: March 27, 2019, 05:47:34 PM »
OK I’ll give it a shot and I can put the raw files in a zip file if you want to grab them all to play with

Thanks but that's not necessary for me, although others might like to do so and I very much encourage anyone interested to try it.  I mostly wanted to satisfy my own curiosity that the 3 microphone arrangement and stereo mix works in the complementary way I expect it should (both spatial-image-wise and complementary-frequency-balance-wise), even with the limited spacing between the omnis.

I know this test was only intended to serve as a general comparative test of the 4099 and the test configuration used was based on having only one 4099 available. I also recognize that your plan is not to actually use the microphones in this configuration, but to instead use a pair of 4099, either with or without the 4061 omni pair mixed with them.

However, there is a lot to be said for this 3 microphone arrangement.  It gets a lot of things right: solidifying the spatial center with an upfront focus and presence across the mid and high frequencies reserved for the primary source of interest (direct sound from the stage/PA), while retaining good deep stereo width in the bass without things getting cluttered down there, and a nice open ambience from the omni mids and highs.

For all that to work well its very important to dial in the balance of the 4099 against the omnis accurately by ear.  It can't be some formulaic 50:50 mix or whatever.

It is perhaps best described as an "improved HTRF recording technique" - HTRF recording technique meaning head-worn omnis placed along the temple region in front of the ears.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #331 on: March 27, 2019, 06:37:14 PM »
The next question then becomes:

Is that 3-microphone arrangement better than an more typical HTRF arrangement? 
In this case "typical HTRF" only in terms of microphone mounting location. It's atypical in using two 4099, each with an omni located directly behind it so as to be coincident.

I don't know the answer to that.  Some comparative tests would have to be done. WiFiJeff uses that a configuration and has posted favorable comments about it.  As I understand it, he low-pass filters the omnis so they only begin to contribute as the 4081s response begin to rolls off, extending the low frequency response below that of the 4081s.  Is the low-passing necessary for reasons for other than retaining tight forward pattern control at mid and high frequencies?  Without low-pass filtering is there some phasiness or comb filtering in the mids/highs from the interaction of the closely placed omni and supercardioid capsules?   Is there combing between the parallel arrangement of supercardioids that have essentially no angle between them?  I don't know, but am curious to hear Jeff's comments.

And of course, besides determining which configuration produces the prefered sound quality, there are practical considerations which could easily trump these aspects. One is mounting. 4098/4099 are small, yet considerably longer than the tiny omnis due to their miniature interference tube grid.  Centered mounting of a single one on the brim of a hat works, but what about hat-less gigs?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #332 on: March 27, 2019, 06:40:51 PM »
Centered mounting of a single one on the brim of a hat works, but what about hat-less gigs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AeCCg3KbGY
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #333 on: March 27, 2019, 07:23:26 PM »
Classic!

Beats the faux pinocchio nose and false oversized thyroid tumor options.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #334 on: March 27, 2019, 09:22:52 PM »
Couldn't find a way to download the soundcloud samples, so I tried to play both the 4061 and 4099 soundcloud samples simultaneously in two different windows.  Soundcloud won't allow this within the same browser, although I think it used to.  However, I was able to do so using two different browsers.  It's tricky getting the sync just right, but it can be done upon some trial and error via precise manipulation of pause/play controls - an obscure skill I refined doing this for simultaneous playback from two R-09s years ago. 

Once playing in sync, the most appropriate balance between the 4061s and single 4099 can be dialed in using the volume sliders for each.

As suspected, the stereo 4061 + mono 4099 combination is a good, and superior to either in isolation.  Using the non-EQ / non-normalized files (much gain required on the 4061's, very little on the 4099) the native response of each fits nicely with the other, producing a sort of "self EQ'd" mix.

Maybe give it a try in your editor where the sync'ing will be far easier and more precise.

https://soundcloud.com/user-24091888/4061-4099mix2-1

quick and dirty mix in vegas using only these settings on the 4061 (EQ+ 3.5 dB gain). 4099 source is untouched


« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 09:42:01 PM by jerryfreak »
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #335 on: March 30, 2019, 08:24:20 PM »
ok i finally got it to see line-in

i only have one microdot pigtail to work with, with an open circuit, voltage between signal wire and ground was 4.98V. I connected a 20k potentiometer between signal and ground starting at 20K and dialed it back , it would kick the d:vice into "mono" mode at about 12K, so i made a simple circuit with a 10K resistor between signal and ground, and then put a 10uF 16V tantalum cap  in the signal wire (with + toward d:vice, thanks mjwin) and then wired in a TRS and and connected it to an old phone i didnt care if i blew up. played a track and lo and behold it works

im going to order some parts and try to connect the low level output from schoeps cmr>bat box to the two microdots. should be a good match as the d:vice has a pretty clean gain stage.
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small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline mjwin

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #336 on: March 31, 2019, 01:41:30 PM »
ok i finally got it to see line-in
It's good to know you've cracked it! 

I wonder why the D:vice needs to sense the mic's presence? Is it simply to automatically switch between stereo/mono modes depending on what's connected?

(BTW, I just replied to you other thread re D:vice input pull-up resistors etc)

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #337 on: April 01, 2019, 01:59:14 AM »
thanks ill check it out. i need to order up some better microdot cables, will measure eventually.

with crappy off the shelf resistor and electrolytic cap and ghetto solder blobs on open wiring i was able to get 85 dB S/N on the input feeding it a miclevel-ish signal from the headphone out of my dac 1

doug is gonna send me some better caps and resistors to use which should improve on that a bit
in:
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smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #338 on: April 01, 2019, 06:22:40 PM »
this might be a better driver for those using android. d:vice not listed as supported but likely because they didnt test it

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=184766
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline edtyre

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #339 on: April 02, 2019, 04:59:01 PM »
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.
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Offline fobstl

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #340 on: April 02, 2019, 05:09:55 PM »
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.
Very cool!

Offline edtyre

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #341 on: April 02, 2019, 05:36:43 PM »
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.

Oops correction
ANY caps with Babynbox!
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #342 on: April 02, 2019, 05:59:58 PM »
nice. any input should work technically, though the fixed gain nboxes might be too high if they cant be attenuated
nick what did you use for resistors and caps and how was the noise floor?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 06:21:09 PM by jerryfreak »
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



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Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #343 on: April 03, 2019, 06:23:06 AM »
https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.

That looks amazing...one question...years ago I tried to record with the previous proprietary Apple Connection to a iPod and it was very touchy and too noisy to work...interested in the signal stability of the new Lightning connector...have you put the unit in the field yet?
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: DPA d:VICE just announced
« Reply #344 on: April 03, 2019, 06:33:10 AM »
Lightning connection is all digital

Changing the analog input to the d:vice will not affect its connection to the iPhone... which is flawless. Lighting connector is simple and very snug. Lots of miles with these in the field so far, no issues.

https://imgur.com/q3zG2EI

babynbox & dVice work!!  Nicky now makes a cable mod for the dVice to run Schoeps caps and record to your phone.

That looks amazing...one question...years ago I tried to record with the previous proprietary Apple Connection to a iPod and it was very touchy and too noisy to work...interested in the signal stability of the new Lightning connector...have you put the unit in the field yet?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 02:27:54 PM by jerryfreak »
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

 

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