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Offline u2_fly_2

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Advice on DPA 4061
« on: March 17, 2019, 05:59:43 PM »
Hello all fellow tapers,

After 12 years with the same 3 different mic´s/batterboxes/recorders...all very good...

Sorry if some questions are obvious, yet better to "doublecheck" and be safe than sorry...

I´m looking at maybe getting DPA 4061-stereo mic´s and was wondering if you have photos of your taping rig´s and most important suggestions for which batterybox/digital recorder to go with it?

At the moment I´m using this taping rig "chain" (Very good "Stealth rig"):
(If possible I would like something as close to this rig to go with the DPA 4061´s)

AT 943 External Stereo Microphones >> SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery >> Olympus LS-10



As I have a R-26 myself this would be an option too, even though the LS-10 is ofcourse easier to "stealth" with.

1) Can I run the DPA 4061´s directly into the R-26 or would I benefit with/from a batterybox?

2) Can I run the DPA 4061´s >> 
SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery >> Olympus LS-10

Or is this impossible?

3) Can I get the DPA 4061´s modified as the AT 943´s...I mean in 1 stereo-cable?

If not too much hassle, photos of your taping rig´s with DPA 4061´s would be really appreciated + extended info/suggestions:

Many thanks for all info!
Appreciate your help!


E-Mail:

inconcertsitrust@yahoo.com

/ Danne
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 06:22:40 PM by u2_fly_2 »
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

Offline fandelive

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 06:44:30 PM »
It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.
Mics : Sony ECM-717, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), SP-CMC-4 (at853), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 07:27:24 PM »
It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.


Thanks for the input.
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 08:20:27 PM »
It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.
this to a large extent. there are directional caps the same size as the 406x series but none really have the same sound as the larger directional caps, seems they are thin on the bottom end, probably due to proximity effect. that said when the 4061s are in the right spot, they sound amazing. but the omni patterns is their achilles heel. best you can do is have some wingmen and maybe try to mount them on your chest to offer some resistance against people behind you.

if you want to hear the directional small caps listen to some 4099 recordings from dime. theres a few neil young and a marcus king among others

i really think the ideal setup would be a pair of 4099s and a pair of 4061s, or single 4061 even. 4 mics are still smaller than a pair of most others, and you could pull out the low end from the omni mic(s) with almost no crowd noise, and use it to fill in the clear stereo pull from the 4099s 


you can put any cable you want on the 4061s but if you want to run them straight from PIP, get the 3V 4063 version and you can run it directly from a edirol R07 or others. i like my d:vice>iphone setup but thats another $600. a good recorder is $200 anyway, and the d:vice+iphone always gets in the door at least


« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 08:55:45 PM by jerryfreak »
in:
small: MK4/4V > CMR > V3 or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K/R07/PCM-A10/Oade Warm 661/DR100-MKIII

smaller: 4061/4099 CORE or 4011/4018V> d:vice MMA



out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HDR > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 02:52:02 AM »
It's alot easier to get good results when stealthing with cards.

Omnis do work well in small venues, when the room is build for good acoustics, when the mix is mono and you can get as close as possible to a stack, when sound out of the speaker is top notch and people around you shut the fuck up.

It happens. 1% of the time.

I tape with both omnis and cards. Most of the time I prefer the cards source. Also, you better learn some EQ tricks if you want to start using omnis, because a raw stealth tape done with omnis needs alot more post production.

Ugly truth.
this to a large extent. there are directional caps the same size as the 406x series but none really have the same sound as the larger directional caps, seems they are thin on the bottom end, probably due to proximity effect. that said when the 4061s are in the right spot, they sound amazing. but the omni patterns is their achilles heel. best you can do is have some wingmen and maybe try to mount them on your chest to offer some resistance against people behind you.

if you want to hear the directional small caps listen to some 4099 recordings from dime. theres a few neil young and a marcus king among others

i really think the ideal setup would be a pair of 4099s and a pair of 4061s, or single 4061 even. 4 mics are still smaller than a pair of most others, and you could pull out the low end from the omni mic(s) with almost no crowd noise, and use it to fill in the clear stereo pull from the 4099s 


you can put any cable you want on the 4061s but if you want to run them straight from PIP, get the 3V 4063 version and you can run it directly from a edirol R07 or others. i like my d:vice>iphone setup but thats another $600. a good recorder is $200 anyway, and the d:vice+iphone always gets in the door at least



Many thanks for the info!
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 10:19:04 AM »
Rather than opine about which approach is subjectively most appropriate, I'll do my best to answer the question you posed-

The gear you already have will power a pair of DPA 4061.   What you need to do is decide how you want to connect the microphones to the battery box (a battery-box or preamp is required when using 4060 or 4061), or connect directly to the recorder (which as jerryfreak mentions, is an possibility when using 4063).

As supplied by DPA, each microphone terminates to a single miniature co-axial micro-dot connector, but you need a stereo-mini-plug termination to connect with the battery box or recorder input.  One option is to chop off the microdot ends and re-terminate the microphone pair to a single stereo-mini-plug.  That requires soldering the very fine center connector.  If you are not adept at making cable connections and soldering fine wires in particular, you'll need to find someone to do that for you.  The other option is making or having someone make a 'Y' adapter cable with two female microdot input legs connected to a stereo-mini-plug output.  Details are in the DPA threads.   Last I looked this was not an item found which could be found online and bought premade, but that may have changed.

Third option, which would allow you to use the microphones immediately with the recorder you already have, is to buy a new pair (or find a used pair) of Core Sound "high end binaurals".  Those are matched DPA 4060 or 4061 already terminated to a single stereo-mini-jack and include an in-line matching battery-box.

Fourth option is to use the DPA d:vice preamp/ADC which has a pair micro-dot inputs and USB output to Iphone.  No adapters needed, but you'd need the d:vice and Iphone as well as the pair of mics.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2019, 10:30:19 AM »
Rather than opine about which approach is subjectively most appropriate, I'll do my best to answer the question you posed-

The gear you already have will power a pair of DPA 4061.   What you need to do is decide how you want to connect the microphones to the battery box (a battery-box or preamp is required when using 4060 or 4061), or connect directly to the recorder (which as jerryfreak mentions, is an possibility when using 4063).

As supplied by DPA, each microphone terminates to a single miniature co-axial micro-dot connector, but you need a stereo-mini-plug termination to connect with the battery box or recorder input.  One option is to chop off the microdot ends and re-terminate the microphone pair to a single stereo-mini-plug.  That requires soldering the very fine center connector.  If you are not adept at making cable connections and soldering fine wires in particular, you'll need to find someone to do that for you.  The other option is making or having someone make a 'Y' adapter cable with two female microdot input legs connected to a stereo-mini-plug output.  Details are in the DPA threads.   Last I looked this was not an item found which could be found online and bought premade, but that may have changed.

Third option, which would allow you to use the microphones immediately with the recorder you already have, is to buy a new pair (or find a used pair) of Core Sound "high end binaurals".  Those are matched DPA 4060 or 4061 already terminated to a single stereo-mini-jack and include an in-line matching battery-box.

Fourth option is to use the DPA d:vice preamp/ADC which has a pair micro-dot inputs and USB output to Iphone.  No adapters needed, but you'd need the d:vice and Iphone as well as the pair of mics.


Many thanks Gutbucket for the extensive information!

I´ll check option 3-4.

One question:
Will the batterybox (>> SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery)  I have now be enough in combination with the Core Sound 4061-option?

12vdc should handled the Core Sound 4061´s?

Many thanks again!
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2019, 10:51:13 AM »
Will the batterybox (>> SP-SPSB-10-80020 - Sound Professionals - Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery)  I have now be enough in combination with the Core Sound 4061-option?

12vdc should handled the Core Sound 4061´s?

The Core Sound version includes its own battery box, so you would not need your SP battery box if going that route.

A supply voltage of between 5-10V is optimal for all miniature DPAs except the lower voltage 4063. 12V is the very uppermost limit for them and many folks report that they work fine with that supply voltage, but a battery box with a lower output voltage will be safer. Len at Core Sound has posted that 12V is uncomfortably close to the limit and is in danger of burning them up. 

I use Church Audio preamps and Niaint PFAs to power them, both of which produce about 8-9VDC, or the DPA XLR adapters which produce about 5-6VDC I think (would have to measure them again to be sure). 

[edit]- I use the Church Audio preamps into small handheld recorders.  I use the Niaint PFAs and DPA XLR adapters into recorders with XLR inputs and 12-48V phantom power.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 10:56:12 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2019, 11:02:40 AM »
Many thanks Gutbucket!

I sent you a PM with one more question.
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

Offline junkyardt

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 12:36:16 PM »
instead of the sp-spsb-10, you can get the sp-spsb-8 to solve the voltage problem.

https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII

Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 12:39:57 PM »
instead of the sp-spsb-10, you can get the sp-spsb-8 to solve the voltage problem.

https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII



Many thanks Junkyardt!

I´ll bookmark that page and probably order one of those batteryboxes when/if I get the DPA 4061´s!
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 12:56:03 PM »
I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 12:57:08 PM »
spsb-8 will work and is a much safer option for powering DPAs than the spsb-10 you are currently using.  I'd recommend the switch.

Best to either re-terminate the microphones or use a 'Y' adapter as mentioned for use with that battery box just like any other using a single stereo-mini-input, but the option of two mono inputs on the spsb-8 .. Two mono (left and right) in-line, gold plated microphone input jacks or a single stereo input (select in option box)" ..in combination with a pair of off-the-shelf-available mono microdot>mini-plug adapters will also work without requiring mic-retermination or a custom 'Y' adapter.  DPA makes such mono adapters although they are rather costly.  Functionally equivalent versions can be found from other on-line sources at less cost.

The drawback of that solution is two additional connection points in the signal path and having the adapters clunking around in pocket.  I'd probably gaff tape them to keep them secure.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 01:04:42 PM »
I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.

Coresound does include the power supply battery box. 

Core also provides a replacement option for mics without the power supply, yet an existing Core battery-box is required to use those.  Alternate battery boxes cannot be used with the Core mics without a custom adapter 'Y' that would to mate with the single mini-XLR Core uses to handle both input and output from the battery box.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline u2_fly_2

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Re: Advice on DPA 4061
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2019, 01:06:25 PM »
I don’t think Coresounds come with a power supply unless you pay extra. I agree that Soundpros is a good company to get power supply boxes.



Thanks ilduclo for your advice!
Soundprofessionals Audio Technica AT 943 (SP-CMC-8) External Stereo Microphones > SP-SPSB-10-80020
Sound Professionals Micro-mini microphone power supply with mini 12vdc battery and 24 inch hardwired output cable Soundprofessionals Batterybox >> Olympus Ls-10 Linear Recorder > 4 GB > 24 Bit / 48 Khz  > 24 Bit / 96 Khz

Zoom Q3 HD - 1080p / 96-24 Bit

Roland R-26 (96 / 24 Bit)

Sony PCM-D100 (192 / 24 Bit)

 

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