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Author Topic: Apogee in front of 7xx series.  (Read 3913 times)

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Offline dointhatrag

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Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« on: March 31, 2007, 02:27:15 PM »
Ok I have done 4 shows with the mini me as the A/D. I am not totally satisfied its better than the 7xx series A/D.  My next show (not sure when) I am going to do the first set with the mini between to sonosax and the 7xx, and the second set without.

Anyone here insist on a external A/D with the 7xx series?





« Last Edit: March 31, 2007, 02:32:55 PM by dointhatrag »
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Offline ghellquist

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 04:39:53 AM »
If you search in this forum you will find several threads about the 722. There seems to be some people, like myself, that are perfectly happy with the 722 pre and AD not requiring anything else. I use it as my portable set to record classical music. Mostly with a Schoeps MSTC64, sometimes with Sennheiser MKH30/40, sometimes with Royer SF24 or with omnis. No client has complained yet on the sound. Only remember to keep the microphone gain down a bit, yellow but no red leds is my aim, leaving headroom for the unexpected, raising in post.

Now, other persons claim very strongly that they preferr other preamps and or AD-s to the 722. This is to me a sign that there is a difference and that taste does differ. Some claim vastly improved results with the other preamps and or AD-s. Yet, when I listen to the published audio files I find it difficult to hear the difference when not listening very carefully in an AB test. Several of the people "guessing" have been unable to nail the right preamp despite advocating very strong views.

All in all, the best advice is for you to test yourself. Your taste should be your own -- avoid beeing politically correct by adopting the views of other people.

Gunnar

Offline Nick Graham

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 05:52:30 PM »
FWIW, and I've never run a 722, but I've always preferred the V3 A/D to the MME. With that in mind, there's a growing number of people who are running analog out of the V3 into the 722....

Exactly what that means I'm not sure :)
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Offline grider

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 11:34:39 AM »
Ok I have done 4 shows with the mini me as the A/D. I am not totally satisfied its better than the 7xx series A/D.  My next show (not sure when) I am going to do the first set with the mini between to sonosax and the 7xx, and the second set without.

Anyone here insist on a external A/D with the 7xx series?

so you are running a separate preamp (Sonosax) into a separate adc (MiniMe) into the Sound Devices 722/744?!? that seems like a very big rig and seems to defeat the purpose of using an all in one box altogether to me







Offline baustin

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 01:03:42 PM »
Used to run MME~>USB~>Laptop then switched to MME~>VXPocket440~>Laptop.

Sold the MME to help pay for a 722 and haven't looked back since.

Personally, I'd probably nix the MME and run Sonosax~>722 just to get rid of the awkward build of the MME and weight that comes along an extra battery and cables. And because the 722 sounds sooooo nice!  ;)

Offline todd e

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2007, 04:00:32 PM »
i run the mini-me before my bitbucket (hd-p2) and i'm definitely convinced that tascam A>D aint anything like apogee.  better than a 7xx would be speculation, but we all seemed to like the sound before the 7xx came out, doubt that they have spec'd a nicer A>D in an all-in-one box....

just my take on it all, love the apogee sound.


^^ baustin - the bulkyness of the rig is non deniable, but the sound is much better in my opinion, plus it's the same size as an ad1000 and most people put up with lugging the better sound around at the time..  interesting to hear other people's take on it.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2007, 04:02:34 PM by todd e »

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2007, 04:09:42 PM »
i would run sax>722 and never look back. i would HEAVILY test out everything without the apogee in the mix, YMMV

i think the 722's adc is better than the v3's and damn close/on par to teh apogee tapes. the realism of the v2>722 i run now is totally satisfying, and has a bit more lowend than straight v3/which is also prolly on par with the mme. mme may have a tad more lowend but......

this is all strictly hearsy as ive never ran a mme. i did however run sax>722 for awhile and the setup was so light/easy i would never lug an apogee around for just the a/d

good luck on your quest :)
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Offline Brian

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 04:22:22 PM »
i would run sax>722 and never look back. i would HEAVILY test out everything without the apogee in the mix, YMMV

i think the 722's adc is better than the v3's and damn close/on par to teh apogee tapes. the realism of the v2>722 i run now is totally satisfying, and has a bit more lowend than straight v3/which is also prolly on par with the mme. mme may have a tad more lowend but......

this is all strictly hearsy as ive never ran a mme. i did however run sax>722 for awhile and the setup was so light/easy i would never lug an apogee around for just the a/d

good luck on your quest :)

remember when you used to clown on the 722 and fluff the v3 incessantly?

;)

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2007, 04:35:15 PM »
i would run sax>722 and never look back. i would HEAVILY test out everything without the apogee in the mix, YMMV

i think the 722's adc is better than the v3's and damn close/on par to teh apogee tapes. the realism of the v2>722 i run now is totally satisfying, and has a bit more lowend than straight v3/which is also prolly on par with the mme. mme may have a tad more lowend but......

this is all strictly hearsy as ive never ran a mme. i did however run sax>722 for awhile and the setup was so light/easy i would never lug an apogee around for just the a/d

good luck on your quest :)

remember when you used to clown on the 722 and fluff the v3 incessantly?

;)

yes i do, but it was pretty unstable then ;)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

BobW

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2007, 09:07:57 AM »

 out, doubt that they have spec'd a nicer A>D in an all-in-one box....


I'm still not sure why Apogee doesn't release a Mini-ME flash recorder now that 16GB CF cards are commonplace.

And, of course Grace fans anxiously await the Lunatec V4 Compact Flash recorder, as well.

How much would it add to the cost to pop a bit-bucket inside those boxes?

Call me a free-wheelin' radical, what can I say?     ;D

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2007, 11:59:02 AM »
Anyone here insist on a external A/D with the 7xx series?

there are very few people who run an external A/D in front of a SD 7xx unit (off-hand, I can only think of one person, who runs b+k 4011 > v2 > ad2k > 722).  that's mostly because once you start talking about external A/D converters, the overall size of your recording gear matters less than the sound.  and once you take the nice small size of the 722 out of the equation, it just doesn't make any sense to own one if you are going to run an external A/D converter.  For less than half the cost (think Tascam HD-P2 or Marantz PMD-671), there are other recorders that will take a digital input and very reliably record the files.

while I have heard many MiniMe tapes, I've never run one myself, so I won't comment on how it compares to the 722.
however, I did recently ran a comparison between the A/D in the V3 against the A/D in the 722. (see this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81297.0.html).  while Bean prefers the 722 A/D over the V3 A/D (and he definitely talks it up a lot :) ), I'd say in general, the V3 A/D and the 722 A/D are pretty much on par with each other, with some people preferring the 722 and others the V3.

maybe someone with a V2 can run a similar comparison between the 722 A/D and the MiniMe A/D.  (I say the V2 because it has two sets of analog outs - XLR and RCA.  so it would be possible to run mics > V2 > 722 and V2 > MiniMe > some other recorder simultaneously.  the V3 only has the XLR outs.  the RCA outs were sacrificed to add the digital outputs on the V3).

so, there you have it.  my advice would be to run a real comparison between the MiniMe A/D and the 722 A/D.  you could probably borrow another recorder to do the comp.  if you like the MiniMe better and don't need the small size of the 7xx recorders, sell the 722 and buy a tascam HD-P2.  rock solid recorder and takes a digital input.  if you like the 722 better, than sell the MiniMe. :)

Offline wboswell

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2007, 01:19:00 PM »
i would run sax>722 and never look back. i would HEAVILY test out everything without the apogee in the mix, YMMV

i think the 722's adc is better than the v3's and damn close/on par to teh apogee tapes. the realism of the v2>722 i run now is totally satisfying, and has a bit more lowend than straight v3/which is also prolly on par with the mme. mme may have a tad more lowend but......

this is all strictly hearsy as ive never ran a mme. i did however run sax>722 for awhile and the setup was so light/easy i would never lug an apogee around for just the a/d

good luck on your quest :)

remember when you used to clown on the 722 and fluff the v3 incessantly?

;)

yes i do, but it was pretty unstable then ;)

you were unstable or the 722?

Offline todd e

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2007, 03:19:50 PM »
Anyone here insist on a external A/D with the 7xx series?

there are very few people who run an external A/D in front of a SD 7xx unit (off-hand, I can only think of one person, who runs b+k 4011 > v2 > ad2k > 722).  that's mostly because once you start talking about external A/D converters, the overall size of your recording gear matters less than the sound.  and once you take the nice small size of the 722 out of the equation, it just doesn't make any sense to own one if you are going to run an external A/D converter.  For less than half the cost (think Tascam HD-P2 or Marantz PMD-671), there are other recorders that will take a digital input and very reliably record the files.

while I have heard many MiniMe tapes, I've never run one myself, so I won't comment on how it compares to the 722.
however, I did recently ran a comparison between the A/D in the V3 against the A/D in the 722. (see this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81297.0.html).  while Bean prefers the 722 A/D over the V3 A/D (and he definitely talks it up a lot :) ), I'd say in general, the V3 A/D and the 722 A/D are pretty much on par with each other, with some people preferring the 722 and others the V3.

maybe someone with a V2 can run a similar comparison between the 722 A/D and the MiniMe A/D.  (I say the V2 because it has two sets of analog outs - XLR and RCA.  so it would be possible to run mics > V2 > 722 and V2 > MiniMe > some other recorder simultaneously.  the V3 only has the XLR outs.  the RCA outs were sacrificed to add the digital outputs on the V3).

so, there you have it.  my advice would be to run a real comparison between the MiniMe A/D and the 722 A/D.  you could probably borrow another recorder to do the comp.  if you like the MiniMe better and don't need the small size of the 7xx recorders, sell the 722 and buy a tascam HD-P2.  rock solid recorder and takes a digital input.  if you like the 722 better, than sell the MiniMe. :)

jason,

no reason to bother with a v2, it ruins recordings....  ;D

i can put my hands on 2 m248s and 2mme's and a 722 if i had too (locally)  maybe we'll get something setup for a pavillion show this summer, for a comp.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2007, 03:36:06 PM »
i would run sax>722 and never look back. i would HEAVILY test out everything without the apogee in the mix, YMMV

i think the 722's adc is better than the v3's and damn close/on par to teh apogee tapes. the realism of the v2>722 i run now is totally satisfying, and has a bit more lowend than straight v3/which is also prolly on par with the mme. mme may have a tad more lowend but......

this is all strictly hearsy as ive never ran a mme. i did however run sax>722 for awhile and the setup was so light/easy i would never lug an apogee around for just the a/d

good luck on your quest :)

remember when you used to clown on the 722 and fluff the v3 incessantly?

;)

yes i do, but it was pretty unstable then ;)

you were unstable or the 722?

hehe, I think BOTH William :)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Apogee in front of 7xx series.
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2007, 04:41:24 PM »
however, I did recently ran a comparison between the A/D in the V3 against the A/D in the 722. (see this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,81297.0.html).  while Bean prefers the 722 A/D over the V3 A/D (and he definitely talks it up a lot :) ), I'd say in general, the V3 A/D and the 722 A/D are pretty much on par with each other, with some people preferring the 722 and others the V3.

Fwiw, it looks like 6 people chose the v3 and 14 chose the 722.  So not really even.

And in another very interesting comp, the r09 a/d was preferred over the v3 8:3. The r09!

I'm still surprised by that one... From the comments, most seemed to get more 'warm fuzzies' from the r09 source despite quite a few folks describing the v3 source as more detailed.  For soundstage and clarity, I would typically choose to run the v3 a/d over the r09... but that subjective 'warm fuzzies' is another question entirely... Had it not been a mono PA, had their been more soundstage to capture, I think the v3 might have won the poll.

MG200 DIN > v3
  coax > microtrack 24/48
  analog out > r09 line in, 24/48, trim setting 8

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,70847.0.html

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