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Author Topic: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?  (Read 30550 times)

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #105 on: February 19, 2018, 07:47:28 PM »
I just hope that helps more than obfuscates!
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Online nak700s

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2018, 01:30:31 PM »
I just hope that helps more than obfuscates!

It does...and apparently for more than just me  :)
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #107 on: June 24, 2018, 02:24:56 PM »
Bumping a favorite old reference topic here, so that I can share my calculator with all of y'all.

I thought I posted my handy spreadsheet link on this thread so folks could enjoy it but I can't seem to find it, so here it is, the morst-audio-speed-converter.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pQGfYwPgBFFzcY5m6aRj-Zbu9HsRumLy-tJB1d8Eufg/edit#gid=583050244

If you can't use it live in a browser, just download it and use it at home in LibreOffice, OpenOffice, or any Excel equivalent.
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2019, 06:50:53 PM »
Let me give it a try for ya. These instructions should work fine on a mac or a PC running Audacity. Probably Linux too, though I have never tried it.

1- Run the masters so the levels peak below -3.0 dB on each if you can, so you can mix them without having to lower volume to avoid clipping peaks. Run them both at the same sample rate. Bit depth is not as important to match. Name each file descriptively including the type of source (Foobar2008-04-29-SBD-24bit.wav, Foobar2008-04-29-DPA-24bit.wav or some such)

2- Go to AUDACITY>PREFERENCES> QUALITY and set your default sample rate and bit depth to the desired settings (44100 with the desired output bit-depth). PROJECT>IMPORT both sources into audacity and FILE>SAVE your work.

3- Use the double-headed arrow "TIME SHIFT" tool in the top left corner (<-->) to line up the files as near as possible to the start of the music. Find a sharp peaking impulse like a drum hit or some other peak to line up and zoom in until they are as precisely aligned as possible.

4- If you think you need to do any EQ or level changes on either source, do this now. You can use EFFECT>AMPLIFY to tell you how high each source peaks. If each source peaks higher than -3.0dB at any point, you will get clipping on the mix, so you'll need to lower levels to avoid this. It is also possible to have one source higher than the other and still clip peaks. I am good but not great at math, so hopefully some other folks can chime in with suggestions and comments regarding levels. I think I have it right, that 2 signals of -3.0dB will add up to peak at -0.0dB so you want to stay below that.

5- Go to the end of the files and figure out how much they have drifted apart. Do some math* to figure out how much you need to use EFFECT>CHANGE SPEED to get them lined up (see below for my method of calculating the percent change)

6- I suggest shortening the longer file rather than stretching the shorter one, but it probably doesn't matter. Use the EFFECT>CHANGE SPEED to do that.

7- Check the alignment to make sure the sources stay together. If they are not correct, use EDIT> UNDO SPEED CHANGE and try step 6 again. When they are correct, FILE>SAVE your work again. As long as you keep the file open, you can UNDO past the file save operation, but once you close and open it again, you can't go back past the saved version.

8- Check the mix for sound by using the MUTE function on each track during playback to make sure it sounds good. Adjust the gain for each track if needed by using the +......- slider on the left of each track for course adjustment, or EFFECT>AMPLIFY for finer control.

9- Go to AUDACITY>PREFERENCES > QUALITY > HIGH-QUALITY DITHER and select "Triangle Dither"

10- FILE>EXPORT AS WAV (or AIFF) to make the mixed file. FILE>SAVE again. If you think you might need to make further adjustments after checking the completed file, keep this project session open so you can UNDO back. Name the file something descriptive like Foobar2008-04-29-MIX-24bit or Foobar2008-04-29-MATRIX-16bit so you can distinguish it from each source file.

11- FILE>OPEN a new Audacity project document and PROJECT>IMPORT the newly created mix file. EFFECT>AMPLIFY to check that all peaks are below -0.0dB. If this plugin does not offer to boost levels, then you probably have clipped a peak somewhere, and you will want to go back to the original files and lower the levels of one or both sources to preserve your dynamics and avoid flattening out peaks. If you have a little headroom and it sounds good, then you have successfully mixed your sources.

12- If you want to track for CD's, then VIEW>SET SELECTION FORMAT > CDDA min:sec:frames 75fps and then EDIT>SNAP TO> SNAP ON to allow you to cut tracks without "sector boundary errors." Select tracks in order by using EDIT> MOVE CURSOR TO TRACK START (I go into preferences and give it a keyboard shortcut to make this easier) then shift-clicking on the end of each track, then EDIT> SPLIT each track apart in order, making sure to split the final track too.

13- FILE> EXPORT MULTIPLE (NUMBERING CONSECUTIVELY) to WAV (or aiff) in your selected target directory.

14- Compress these files losslessly using your favorite FLAC encoder, and upload to your favorite sharing website, and post in the KICKDOWNS thread here so we can check it out.

15- please let me know if this is unclear or can be improved upon.  8)


* oh shoot, now I gotta figure out how to tell you the math part! My apologies for the half-assed nature of this part of my method.  :-[ Go to VIEW>SET SELECTION FORMAT > SAMPLES (SNAP TO SAMPLES) so you can measure the length of your program in samples. Measure the total length from your sync points early in the file to the desired sync points late in the file. You will get different numbers for each file since they are probably not lined up perfectly due to slight variances in the clock chips of the two recorders. Make a note of each of these numbers. Subtract one from the other to find out the number of samples of drift at the end, and write this number down. Divide the length of the longer one by the length of the shorter source and you will get a number close to but greater than 1.0000000. Let's use an example where you have exactly one second of drift at the end of exactly one hour at 48KHz. The longer file is now 172,848,000 samples and the shorter one is 172,800,000 samples. Divide the long one by the short one and you will get 1.0002788. (If I am getting this right, then) this tells you that you that you need to speed change the longer file by -.02788%

Damn I hope I got that right. Please won't someone troubleshoot my math and let me know the best way to do this???  :o

I tried unsuccessfully to use this method. Is your approach to align the sources at the start of the recording and then choose a spot later in the tracks that is the same point in “time” though it will not align perfectly?
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2019, 06:56:55 PM »
Are you using Audacity V2.1.0?
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2019, 07:22:18 PM »
Are you using Audacity V2.1.0?

I believe I’m using 2.3.0 (not at home now).
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2019, 08:01:57 PM »
I always have to time stretch my portable recorder files (I usually put it on the SBD), and I found once ago that some of the newer Audacity versions didn't use all the significant digits I inputted....the stretch turned out wrong with some newer versions of Audacity.

The "Change Speed" function would internally truncate a value like 0.0034819382974327 into just 0.00348.  You need all those other digits for a perfect stretch.  I was pulling my hair out until I figured out what was causing the bad stretches.

I haven't checked any of the really new versions, V2.1.0 suits me fine.  I don't know why the developers de-tuned the "Change Speed" tool, because it worked perfectly.

PM me if you would like a clean V2.1.0.  I can WeTransfer it to you.
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BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2019, 08:59:32 PM »

I tried unsuccessfully to use this method. Is your approach to align the sources at the start of the recording and then choose a spot later in the tracks that is the same point in “time” though it will not align perfectly?
I would probably explain this a little differently now that it's 10.5 years later but the basics are still about the same.


1. Pick a spot near the beginning where you can line them up, and do so.
2. Mark the spot, and mark the start of both files so you can tell how much they move in step 3
3. Pick a spot near the ending where you can line them up, and do so.
4. Mark the spot, and mark the start of both files so you can tell how much they moved since step 2
5. use these spots to calculate the total length of time between the marked sync points from steps 1 & 3, and use the marked starts to compare how much you had to shift
6. do math
7. stretch or squash according to the math in step 6
8. sync at one of the spots, and then check the other. Should be correct if you got the math right. Watch out for the negative sign!


* always remember to save your work
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Offline ycoop

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2019, 09:30:24 PM »

I tried unsuccessfully to use this method. Is your approach to align the sources at the start of the recording and then choose a spot later in the tracks that is the same point in “time” though it will not align perfectly?
I would probably explain this a little differently now that it's 10.5 years later but the basics are still about the same.


1. Pick a spot near the beginning where you can line them up, and do so.
2. Mark the spot, and mark the start of both files so you can tell how much they move in step 3
3. Pick a spot near the ending where you can line them up, and do so.
4. Mark the spot, and mark the start of both files so you can tell how much they moved since step 2
5. use these spots to calculate the total length of time between the marked sync points from steps 1 & 3, and use the marked starts to compare how much you had to shift
6. do math
7. stretch or squash according to the math in step 6
8. sync at one of the spots, and then check the other. Should be correct if you got the math right. Watch out for the negative sign!


* always remember to save your work

Thanks for the updated guidance, I’ll give it another go when I have that 2.1.0 copy.
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, CA-14 omnis
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #114 on: January 20, 2019, 04:29:09 PM »
Thanks for the updated guidance, I’ll give it another go when I have that 2.1.0 copy.
This website appears to have legacy audacity versions, including 2.1.0
https://www.videohelp.com/software/Audacity/old-versions
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #115 on: January 21, 2019, 04:15:51 PM »
Thanks for the updated guidance, I’ll give it another go when I have that 2.1.0 copy.
This website appears to have legacy audacity versions, including 2.1.0
https://www.videohelp.com/software/Audacity/old-versions

Looks legit, good find morst.  :coolguy:
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"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
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Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #116 on: January 25, 2019, 12:26:26 PM »
After almost 2 years, I was finally able to get IT to install Audacity on my work computer so I can edit shows in my down time at work.  He installed the latest version, 2.3.0, which I can't stand!  I can't seem to export in anything other than the entire multi-track or a mono track.  Ahhh, no!  Is the older 1.3 Beta version still available for download?  I figure that if the program is already on the computer, I should be able to replace it with an older version, no?
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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #117 on: January 25, 2019, 01:43:56 PM »
Get V2.1.0, and don't look back.  There is a good link above ^^^ that morst found for us.

If not, I can WeTransfer you a copy.
Proud member of the reality-based community

BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #118 on: January 25, 2019, 02:15:26 PM »
Get V2.1.0, and don't look back.  There is a good link above ^^^ that morst found for us.

If not, I can WeTransfer you a copy.

Thank you, I'll give that one a try...it certainly can't be worse than 2.3.0.  I can't believe I can't export a stereo file with the latest version!
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Fun times: 3 Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD744T + 2 Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

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Re: Audacity (osx): How to mix two AUD sources?
« Reply #119 on: January 27, 2019, 10:58:30 PM »
Thanks for the updated guidance, I’ll give it another go when I have that 2.1.0 copy.
This website appears to have legacy audacity versions, including 2.1.0
https://www.videohelp.com/software/Audacity/old-versions

Looks legit, good find morst.  :coolguy:

Here's another site for V2.1.0:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/files/audacity/2.1.0/



Make great tapes.
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BSCS-L->JB-mod [NAK CM-300 (CP-3) and/or (CP-1)]->LSD2->CA CAFS-Omni->Sony ECM-907**Apogee MiniMe Rev. C->CA Ugly II->**Edirol OCM R-44->Tascam DR-22WL->Sony TCD-D8


"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
and being beautiful and making the world a beautiful place through your actions.
Every little bit is registered.  Every little bit.  So be as beautiful as you can as often as you can"

"It'll never be over, 'till we learn."
 
"My dream is to get a bus and get the band and just go coast to coast. Just about everything else except music, is anti-musical.  That's it.  Music's the thing." - Jeb Puryear

 

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