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Author Topic: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK  (Read 2946 times)

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Offline bluntforcetrauma

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" limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« on: May 16, 2008, 06:53:01 PM »
hello, i see some who in the lineage of their recordings say " hard limit" to limit clapping?  how is this done.

I use PEAK with plug ins- WAVES.  HOw does limiting work?

how do you make loud clapping decrease without losing music integrity?

For example, if i have a wav file and i see some Peak's and i find that its loud clapping coming from someone next to me, how od i go about decreasing that loud clapping?

please advise



easy jim

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2008, 08:08:10 PM »
Find the maximum peak level of the music in your editing software, and use that to set the threshold of your limiter just at/slightly above/slightly below the music's maximum peak level.  So, if the music alone peaks at -6dBFS and the clapping drives the peaks up to/close to -0dBFS, you can set the limiter threshold at -6dB(FS) and bring up the rms peak levels via make-up gain.

I am not specifically familiar with the WAVES plug-ins (I think the L1/L2/L3 Ultramaximizer plug-ins combine rms normalization/compression with limiting - someone please correct me here), but a limiter essentially allows for setting a 'threshold' or maximum level to which audio peaks may reach.  A 'hard limiter' will suppress all peaks, no matter how transient, at the threshold you set; a 'soft-knee limiter,' on the other hand, will allow more transient peaks to pass the threshold while effectively suppressing non-transient peaks that would otherwise rise above it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 08:10:10 PM by easyjim »

Offline bluntforcetrauma

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2008, 12:37:14 AM »
can a set just a selection of the music--say the last bit of the song were the clapping is right in my ear--can i just select a section of that and apply threshold to the area to bring down the loud clapping to a more listenable db?

please advise

Offline boyacrobat

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2008, 02:28:27 AM »
yes you can
duplicate track in editor and limit track 2 with plug inn
mix in both tracks to ear
use pencil to bring down all the music on track 2 only leaving clapping
range project and export

g

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2008, 06:48:36 AM »
hello, i see some who in the lineage of their recordings say " hard limit" to limit clapping?  how is this done.

I use PEAK with plug ins- WAVES.  HOw does limiting work?

how do you make loud clapping decrease without losing music integrity?

For example, if i have a wav file and i see some Peak's and i find that its loud clapping coming from someone next to me, how od i go about decreasing that loud clapping?

please advise




You'll want to select the portions with the offending clapping and apply the limiting there - you dont have to apply it to the whole wav.

Now - if you have (what I call) "local clappers" - like people right next to you - and there are only a few loud claps between songs....you can select each clap and reduce it's volume by something like 10db or even more...that makes it far less apparent.

Im always surprised how you can zero in on one single clap.

Limiting is more usefull when recording a quiter show - and the crowd applause goes off the charts between songs - - like when you are seated at a nice theater for a jazz show.

Offline bluntforcetrauma

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2008, 08:38:03 AM »
hello, i see some who in the lineage of their recordings say " hard limit" to limit clapping?  how is this done.

I use PEAK with plug ins- WAVES.  HOw does limiting work?

how do you make loud clapping decrease without losing music integrity?

For example, if i have a wav file and i see some Peak's and i find that its loud clapping coming from someone next to me, how od i go about decreasing that loud clapping?

please advise




You'll want to select the portions with the offending clapping and apply the limiting there - you dont have to apply it to the whole wav.

Now - if you have (what I call) "local clappers" - like people right next to you - and there are only a few loud claps between songs....you can select each clap and reduce it's volume by something like 10db or even more...that makes it far less apparent.

Im always surprised how you can zero in on one single clap.

Limiting is more usefull when recording a quiter show - and the crowd applause goes off the charts between songs - - like when you are seated at a nice theater for a jazz show.

how do i zero in an a single clap--because that is what is happening the guy next to me is really picked up in the one mic and its at the end of songs and sometimes the beginning and if i can decrease it i think it will be more enjoyable.

So when i select teh single clap then i zoom in and you then see just how long the clap ( in time ) really is, so then i usually use the pencil tool by hand and go in and decrease the clap.  BUT that takes a lot of time with say 10 single claps for each offending song.

please advise

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2008, 09:07:41 AM »
I use Audacity - so you might have to modify these steps per your editor...

I would first use "Split Stereo Track" to make the Left and Right independently editable.

Then select and magnify(this helps you zero in) the claps - you will have to refine your selection as you magnify.

You can play the selection in Audacity - so you can hear the clap isolation as you refine it.

Then use the Effects > Amplify function to reduce that clap...try a few db at a time.

Note audacity has "repeat effect" function to make it easier to apply changes.

Then "Make Stereo track" and export...

stevetoney

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2008, 10:49:21 AM »
BUT that takes a lot of time with say 10 single claps for each offending song.

It doesn't take very much time.  But even if you do consider it alot of time, that's what you need to do in order to make these types of improvements.  In alot of cases, there's no magic formulas to fix the warts except using a good editing program and some elbow grease.

easy jim

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2008, 03:11:53 PM »
Limiting is more usefull when recording a quiter show - and the crowd applause goes off the charts between songs - - like when you are seated at a nice theater for a jazz show.

BUT that takes a lot of time with say 10 single claps for each offending song.

It doesn't take very much time.  But even if you do consider it alot of time, that's what you need to do in order to make these types of improvements.  In alot of cases, there's no magic formulas to fix the warts except using a good editing program and some elbow grease.

Good points.  The choice over whether spot editing or general limiting is a better approach is definitely dependent on what you're working with, and what you're trying to do.  Spot editing is much more of a pain, and will test your learning curve with your editing software; but, sometimes, it's the best approach.

Offline newplanet7

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2008, 05:24:01 PM »
FWIW, I get clips from clapping, and use the pencil tool in SoundForge 8 to redraw them.
Just zoom in on the clap peak, which most of mine are around 0db and redraw.

It takes a little time but the results are well worth it IMO.
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Offline bluntforcetrauma

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2008, 08:56:34 PM »
BUT that takes a lot of time with say 10 single claps for each offending song.

It doesn't take very much time.  But even if you do consider it alot of time, that's what you need to do in order to make these types of improvements.  In alot of cases, there's no magic formulas to fix the warts except using a good editing program and some elbow grease.

You got to love the spin doctors.  Take partial, put your own spin.  Using the pencil tool as a reference point i was asking if there is a more efficient way of doing it.  Take snail mail versus email.  Both adequate but one takes longer and might not be the most efficient.  Thanks to those that actually  were " for" helping rather than being the one " against" helping. 

thanks again for those who have taken the time.

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2008, 02:46:10 PM »
I use Audacity - so you might have to modify these steps per your editor...

I would first use "Split Stereo Track" to make the Left and Right independently editable.

Then select and magnify(this helps you zero in) the claps - you will have to refine your selection as you magnify.

You can play the selection in Audacity - so you can hear the clap isolation as you refine it.

Then use the Effects > Amplify function to reduce that clap...try a few db at a time.

Note audacity has "repeat effect" function to make it easier to apply changes.

Then "Make Stereo track" and export...

This is a very good workflow. I think that redrawing clipped peaks with the pencil is also ok, though it's nice to avoid them in the first place if possible. If you can run 24-bit depth when recording, there is no need to clip on peaks unless you are recording some bizarre form of music with an insanely wide amount of dynamic range. If you apply the AMPLIFY effect gently just on the worst claps, a small amount of peak limiting to the entire track could be cool to do afterwards.

Personally, I have been trying to figure out the Yohng W1 VST plugin, which is a freeware version of the Waves L1 limiter. The "Threshold" setting is the point at which limiting kicks in. Ceiling is the maximum output level, I set it for .9890000 to get output which peaks at -0.2dB. I don't fully understand way the release time setting is implemented, but I just sent a message to George Yohng who created the plugin, so I'm hoping he can clarify for me.
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Offline keytohwy

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Re: " limiting clapping" how is this done, i use PEAK
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2008, 03:01:27 PM »
I use Peak's "Envelope" plug in.  It allows you to take a selection (however long or short) and then fade the volume out and back in.  You can draw the fades to make them as long or short as possible.  Works very well.  Since claps are about the same length, you can save the settings and refer to them when you need to.  It's not too difficult to do this for an entire show...probably takes 30 mins for a 120 mins show if you have a clapper in between songs.

Hope that helps!

keytohwy

PS-I'm not sure if the settings are portable, but if you want mine, PM me and I'll send it to you.

 

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