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Author Topic: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?  (Read 8479 times)

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Offline Matt Quinn

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2008, 08:40:27 PM »
I think your best bet is to just contact Grace Design.  Their customer service is top notch, and even if you do have to send it in, it's always a very quick turn-around.  There's no sense in having the internal DC-DC converters convert the voltage up to 48V if you're only going to drop it down to 12V immediately.  it's inefficient and a waste of battery power.



Already emailed them, and was quoted $45/hr for shop time (estimated 2 hour max job), and a 3-5 day turnaround time. It's the route that I will most likely go, then get a pair of reverse polarity cables made up to run with the CMC4s.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2008, 10:23:35 PM »
Already emailed them, and was quoted $45/hr for shop time (estimated 2 hour max job), and a 3-5 day turnaround time. It's the route that I will most likely go, then get a pair of reverse polarity cables made up to run with the CMC4s.

They want to charge you to enable a function they intentionally disabled prior to shipping for the purpose of protecting a very small number of people who might switch the jumpers and damage their gear?  Interesting policy.  You might ask nicely if they'll do it for free, since it seems odd they don't just enable both P48 and T12 on every shipped unit and allow users to select their mic power of choice.
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stevetoney

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 05:24:23 AM »
^^ Not only that, but they haven't done this enough or know enough what to do that they can't quote you a firm price?

Offline lino

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2008, 07:12:05 AM »
After my last comment linking to my cable friend I thought lets not post anything else since it will look biased but I just cant help it….How about some common sense here?

- (dis)invest in enable the T12  mode and disable the P48 means:
 a)you will not be able to run any P48 mic in the future
 b)if you ever want to sell the unit you will have hard time getting a fair price because 9 out of 10 mic users out there have P48 mics
- you will still have to use reverse polarity adaptors or cables

But!
If you get a pair of those custom made converter cables
- you will be able to use the V3 with your T12 or any other P48 mic
- you will need no extra polarity cables
- you will loose no money if you decide at some point to sell the V3
- you can always resell these custom cables

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 07:32:43 AM »
Follow up in case anyone else runs across this thread... I bought Matt's CMC4's.

I called Grace about converting my V3 and they were really hesitant about doing the T12 mod.  They have only done a couple of them, and it sounds like it was more hassle than they expected.  If I had pushed the issue they probably would have done it.  I've decided to leave my V3 stock because I have other P48 mics that run well with the V3.
 
I have a Littlebox which sounds great with the Schoeps (I prefer it to the V3 with these mics) and I'm having that converted to 12T.  I bought the Littlebox from the yard sale for a reasonable price and having that dedicated to those mics is fine with me.  Jon is doing the P48 to T12 mod for $40 plus shipping, which is a lot cheaper than Grace.
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 11:13:09 PM »
Follow up in case anyone else runs across this thread... I bought Matt's CMC4's.

I called Grace about converting my V3 and they were really hesitant about doing the T12 mod.  They have only done a couple of them, and it sounds like it was more hassle than they expected.  If I had pushed the issue they probably would have done it.  I've decided to leave my V3 stock because I have other P48 mics that run well with the V3.
 
I have a Littlebox which sounds great with the Schoeps (I prefer it to the V3 with these mics) and I'm having that converted to 12T.  I bought the Littlebox from the yard sale for a reasonable price and having that dedicated to those mics is fine with me.  Jon is doing the P48 to T12 mod for $40 plus shipping, which is a lot cheaper than Grace.

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Offline DSatz

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2011, 09:23:42 AM »
People, please don't jump on Grace about this. Parallel ("T") powering had its day in the film and video industry; it was the only powering method supported by the earliest Nagra recorders and Sennheiser shotguns in the 1960s. But all other professional sound engineers were using phantom powered microphones, which have big advantages especially when multiple microphones are being used. Both Nagra and Sennheiser saw the light and began to support phantom powering in the early 1970s. By the mid- to late-1980s the changeover was essentially complete, and nowadays new T-powered microphones are hardly sold any more if at all.

The fact that a V3 can be configured to support this system, in the rare cases where it may be needed, is a plus. The fact that the preamp can't easily be switched over to parallel powering by people who don't understand microphone powering is an even bigger plus in my opinion because parallel powering can instantly damage or destroy certain types of dynamic microphones. It's not like phantom powering, where both signal leads are charged relative to ground; in parallel powering, the two signal leads are charged relative to each other. The DC is directly superimposed on the audio. It is, in some respects, like putting your fingers into a (low-voltage) light socket.

(You all do know that that's why "phantom" powering is called what it's called, don't you? The idea was that the power would appear when a condenser microphone was plugged in, but a dynamic microphone with a balanced output wouldn't "see" any powering, and could be used safely even if the phantom power switch was left on by mistake.)

--best regards
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 09:28:57 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2011, 06:13:04 PM »
People, please don't jump on Grace about this. Parallel ("T") powering had its day in the film and video industry; it was the only powering method supported by the earliest Nagra recorders and Sennheiser shotguns in the 1960s. But all other professional sound engineers were using phantom powered microphones, which have big advantages especially when multiple microphones are being used. Both Nagra and Sennheiser saw the light and began to support phantom powering in the early 1970s. By the mid- to late-1980s the changeover was essentially complete, and nowadays new T-powered microphones are hardly sold any more if at all.

The fact that a V3 can be configured to support this system, in the rare cases where it may be needed, is a plus. The fact that the preamp can't easily be switched over to parallel powering by people who don't understand microphone powering is an even bigger plus in my opinion because parallel powering can instantly damage or destroy certain types of dynamic microphones. It's not like phantom powering, where both signal leads are charged relative to ground; in parallel powering, the two signal leads are charged relative to each other. The DC is directly superimposed on the audio. It is, in some respects, like putting your fingers into a (low-voltage) light socket.

(You all do know that that's why "phantom" powering is called what it's called, don't you? The idea was that the power would appear when a condenser microphone was plugged in, but a dynamic microphone with a balanced output wouldn't "see" any powering, and could be used safely even if the phantom power switch was left on by mistake.)

--best regards

I learn something new everyday from you Mr. Satz. Thanks for the read :)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Dorado IEM's >
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax {3.5mm} | 
FiiO LC 2.5c {2.5mm} >
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 15 5570-5521 Laptop

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: V3 & Schoeps CMC4's question - parallel power?
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2011, 10:23:01 PM »
DSatz, you are correct.  I didn't mean to bad mouth Grace.  I was just trying to make the point that if someone buys some CMC4's or other T-powered mics ASSUMING that converting a V3 was no big deal, that's not necessarily a good plan.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 10:25:54 PM by SmokinJoe »
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
Pres: V3 / ST9100
Decks: Oade Concert Mod R4Pro / R09 / R05
Big Rig: split snake > Focusrite & Presonus Pres > ADAT > Alesis HD-24 > Protools 11
Daughter's rig:  AT4050ST > Busman Hybrid R4
Photo: Nikon D700's, 2.8 Zooms, and Zeiss primes
Playback: Raspberry Pi > Modi2 Uber > Magni2 > HD650

 

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