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Author Topic: very simple setup for stealth recording  (Read 28972 times)

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Offline Dede2002

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #75 on: November 15, 2008, 06:50:45 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Friend,

I'm not the most experienced taper around here. But considering all your restrictions (location etc) and your wishes ( enjoy "the moment", have fun, not willing to take care of more than one mic etc), with all due respect, my best taping advice is: do not to tape.
Take care

Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2008, 10:50:43 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)
for warranty returns email me at
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Offline Ekib

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2008, 02:48:00 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...
But I have to say, I don’t mind it. I do object when I see people sticking microphones up my nose, in the front row. If I see anyone doing that [laughs] I’m going to have security remove them. Because that’s just obnoxious. But I don’t mind if people come and discreetly at the back make a recording of it. And I know that it’s just for their own use, for the superfan.
(Steven Wilson , interview http://blog.musoscribe.com/index.php/2011/01/25/interview-steven-wilson-on-audience-taping/ )

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2008, 02:51:31 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.
for warranty returns email me at
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nameloc01

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2008, 03:11:02 PM »
I agree with Church. mo-NO.

If you plan on using one mic, get a single point stereo at least.

Offline Liquid Drum

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2008, 05:44:35 PM »
"I have one motto for taping, either do it properly or not at all.That's precisely why I don't mess around with "stealth" recording. >:DI've recorded a few shows in "stealth", so I can understand and respect the desire to do it. I mean; it's a little "f--k you to The Man""

I take your comment as , unless you're "open" taping, you're not doing it "right"...am I reading this wrong?

The majority of stealth tapers aren't doing as a big "fuck you" to anyone....they are doing it because it needs to get taped and people like you aren't gonna get it done. Bottom line.

Howcome you took a bit of my line and added some bollocks to it...??

When I said ''I have one motto for taping, either do it properly or not at all.'' I meant effort-wise. When I tape I put 110% in and expect good results. If you get lazy you get problems. If you record with cheap gear AND expect to have fun still, you will not get a good recording. That is what I meant.

Don't jump on my back. How would I be elitist when I primarily ''stealth''...??

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Offline Sunday Driver

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #81 on: November 16, 2008, 11:13:45 PM »
wow...let's see...I've definitely adjusted my mics during recording, turned around and told people to "shut up" or gave them the look of death creating phasing, tucked away mics under my shirt/jacket for periods of time while security passed through, run stealth in open taping environments, and boosted my recordings as much as 12db in post production. I've also made some great tapes.  :P I guess I'm not elitist .  :(  Maybe I should start living up to other taper's expectations...haha...I think I would rather spend time killing myself...

My two cents: Get out there and tape and enjoy the music with the gear you can afford. But if you're not enjoying the music, it's time to stop.

Offline Ekib

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2008, 04:09:58 AM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.


You would notice it if you know it. But I have fooled some people with my recording and no one noticed ! They all loved the fixed recording.
Now offcourse I had no other choice. It was a great concert and listening to one channel that is malfunctioning was no option. And really I listen a lot to that show.

In some ways it even makes sense. Like you make a recording with 2 mic's. It's always possible one mic could point into a wrong direction.

Not always is the " official " way ( using 2 mic's ) the best solution...there's always exceptions to the rule.

But 99 % offcourse it's better to use 2 mic's.
But I have to say, I don’t mind it. I do object when I see people sticking microphones up my nose, in the front row. If I see anyone doing that [laughs] I’m going to have security remove them. Because that’s just obnoxious. But I don’t mind if people come and discreetly at the back make a recording of it. And I know that it’s just for their own use, for the superfan.
(Steven Wilson , interview http://blog.musoscribe.com/index.php/2011/01/25/interview-steven-wilson-on-audience-taping/ )

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2008, 09:33:01 AM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.


You would notice it if you know it. But I have fooled some people with my recording and no one noticed ! They all loved the fixed recording.
Now offcourse I had no other choice. It was a great concert and listening to one channel that is malfunctioning was no option. And really I listen a lot to that show.

In some ways it even makes sense. Like you make a recording with 2 mic's. It's always possible one mic could point into a wrong direction.

Not always is the " official " way ( using 2 mic's ) the best solution...there's always exceptions to the rule.

But 99 % offcourse it's better to use 2 mic's.

I am a sound engineer trust me I would know it if I heard it... The serious lack of any left right content would give it away...in about 10 seconds. Now if you let me play with the recording and use a stereo processor on it like a really high quality reverb I could trick most people.
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Offline Ekib

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2008, 11:34:29 AM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.


You would notice it if you know it. But I have fooled some people with my recording and no one noticed ! They all loved the fixed recording.
Now offcourse I had no other choice. It was a great concert and listening to one channel that is malfunctioning was no option. And really I listen a lot to that show.

In some ways it even makes sense. Like you make a recording with 2 mic's. It's always possible one mic could point into a wrong direction.

Not always is the " official " way ( using 2 mic's ) the best solution...there's always exceptions to the rule.

But 99 % offcourse it's better to use 2 mic's.

I am a sound engineer trust me I would know it if I heard it... The serious lack of any left right content would give it away...in about 10 seconds. Now if you let me play with the recording and use a stereo processor on it like a really high quality reverb I could trick most people.

I'm sure you'd know being a pro. But most people don't , that's the truth.
It doesn't matter to me.

What I'm interested in...why is the left / right so important ? With stealthing they're only inches away from each other. And like I said before , due to the alligator clips , sometimes one mic points into a wrong direction. I rarely have recordings with 2 channels absolutely being perfect. I always have to fix either one with my Behringer equalizer.
Not to mention people talking straight into one mic. I've had it happen the person next to me was so loud it ruined one channel.



But I have to say, I don’t mind it. I do object when I see people sticking microphones up my nose, in the front row. If I see anyone doing that [laughs] I’m going to have security remove them. Because that’s just obnoxious. But I don’t mind if people come and discreetly at the back make a recording of it. And I know that it’s just for their own use, for the superfan.
(Steven Wilson , interview http://blog.musoscribe.com/index.php/2011/01/25/interview-steven-wilson-on-audience-taping/ )

Offline Dede2002

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2008, 02:17:44 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.


You would notice it if you know it. But I have fooled some people with my recording and no one noticed ! They all loved the fixed recording.
Now offcourse I had no other choice. It was a great concert and listening to one channel that is malfunctioning was no option. And really I listen a lot to that show.

In some ways it even makes sense. Like you make a recording with 2 mic's. It's always possible one mic could point into a wrong direction.

Not always is the " official " way ( using 2 mic's ) the best solution...there's always exceptions to the rule.

But 99 % offcourse it's better to use 2 mic's.

Ekib,

I would notice. I have to agree with Chris on this one.
Any ( I said any) person with fairly trained ears ( I mean anyone who owns a stereo or iPod ) would tell you that something is not how it is supposed to be.
Of course such person can fail to say something like "hey, it's not true stereo" but he/she can tell that something is not right.
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline Belexes

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2008, 02:31:56 PM »
What I'm interested in...why is the left / right so important ? With stealthing they're only inches away from each other.

Myself or someone else should take a stereo recording and take a sample of it and cut/paste one channel into the other to make it mono and post it.  The difference is night and day.
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Offline Ekib

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2008, 03:53:39 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.


You would notice it if you know it. But I have fooled some people with my recording and no one noticed ! They all loved the fixed recording.
Now offcourse I had no other choice. It was a great concert and listening to one channel that is malfunctioning was no option. And really I listen a lot to that show.

In some ways it even makes sense. Like you make a recording with 2 mic's. It's always possible one mic could point into a wrong direction.

Not always is the " official " way ( using 2 mic's ) the best solution...there's always exceptions to the rule.

But 99 % offcourse it's better to use 2 mic's.

Ekib,

I would notice. I have to agree with Chris on this one.
Any ( I said any) person with fairly trained ears ( I mean anyone who owns a stereo or iPod ) would tell you that something is not how it is supposed to be.
Of course such person can fail to say something like "hey, it's not true stereo" but he/she can tell that something is not right.


This is getting an interesting discussion !
I think it is all within the mind , so to speak.

The difference I'm talking about is the recording was originally stereo , except I only use 1 channel which I double.

Now I'd like to know WHY is there a difference ? Aren't the 2 mic's supposed to pick up the same thing ?
I ask this because it interests me.
Recording true stereo is really what happens in the studio or soundboard when you have different instruments mixed to different sides. Like more drums in the right , or the rhythms in the other. Like for example the first VAN HALEN record.
What is really stereo about using 2 mic's ? And yes , before anyone questions...I use 2 mic's. I only mixed mono because I had no choice.
But I have to say, I don’t mind it. I do object when I see people sticking microphones up my nose, in the front row. If I see anyone doing that [laughs] I’m going to have security remove them. Because that’s just obnoxious. But I don’t mind if people come and discreetly at the back make a recording of it. And I know that it’s just for their own use, for the superfan.
(Steven Wilson , interview http://blog.musoscribe.com/index.php/2011/01/25/interview-steven-wilson-on-audience-taping/ )

Offline Belexes

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2008, 04:10:46 PM »
Now I'd like to know WHY is there a difference ? Aren't the 2 mic's supposed to pick up the same thing ?
I ask this because it interests me.

We hear in stereo with two ears and depending on the direction of the sound sources, each ear picks up something distinct.  Would you have a stereo receiver at home with one speaker?   :o

Anyway, stereo mics like your ears pick up distinct information.  It isn't really the same. 
Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > HiHo Silver XLR's > Deck TBD

CA-14 (c,o)/MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod)/AT853(4.7k mod)(c,o,h,sc)/CAFS (o)/CA-1 (o) > CA-9100 (V. 4.1)/CA-9200/CA-UBB > Sony PCM-D50/Sony PCM-M10

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: very simple setup for stealth recording
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2008, 04:28:53 PM »
Wow, I haven't checked the forum for a few days and I see more than 70 messages... First thanks for the replies. I think Freelunch missed the point. It's not that I don't want to do any research. On the contrary I have spent hours reading forums, etc. As for my not being willing to bother, it's just that the concert I would like to record will probably be a one time opportunity for me, so I want to enjoy it... And I prefer to end up with a mediocre (or even a bad) tape having truly enjoyed the show than having a good tape but the impression I 'missed' the moment.

With respect to the technical side, I am now thinking about getting a very 'stealthy' external mic. In fact I was even thinking about recording in mono so that I have only one mic to position and to pay attention to. One question: if you have a microtrack and a pair of mics plugged, can you record mono and just use one of them? And does the file take only half the size of a stereo one then? I know, I could a get a single mono mic but I might want to record in stereo another time.

Thanks again guys.

 

Please dont do mono. That's all I will say  ;)

Sure , it shouldn't be your choice.
But I have had one mic break down during a concert . After the gig I doubled the left channel ( the one mic that didn't break down ) and the result was surprisingly good. I don't think if you know before hand you won't notice...

I would notice right away.. There is a huge difference between a mono recording and a stereo one.. Even if you duplicate the channel.. its not the same to my ears at least.


You would notice it if you know it. But I have fooled some people with my recording and no one noticed ! They all loved the fixed recording.
Now offcourse I had no other choice. It was a great concert and listening to one channel that is malfunctioning was no option. And really I listen a lot to that show.

In some ways it even makes sense. Like you make a recording with 2 mic's. It's always possible one mic could point into a wrong direction.

Not always is the " official " way ( using 2 mic's ) the best solution...there's always exceptions to the rule.

But 99 % offcourse it's better to use 2 mic's.

Ekib,

I would notice. I have to agree with Chris on this one.
Any ( I said any) person with fairly trained ears ( I mean anyone who owns a stereo or iPod ) would tell you that something is not how it is supposed to be.
Of course such person can fail to say something like "hey, it's not true stereo" but he/she can tell that something is not right.


This is getting an interesting discussion !
I think it is all within the mind , so to speak.

The difference I'm talking about is the recording was originally stereo , except I only use 1 channel which I double.

Now I'd like to know WHY is there a difference ? Aren't the 2 mic's supposed to pick up the same thing ?
I ask this because it interests me.
Recording true stereo is really what happens in the studio or soundboard when you have different instruments mixed to different sides. Like more drums in the right , or the rhythms in the other. Like for example the first VAN HALEN record.
What is really stereo about using 2 mic's ? And yes , before anyone questions...I use 2 mic's. I only mixed mono because I had no choice.


Two mics even if they are only inches apart pick up different perspectives and arrival times of the sound in the room... Now we do not hear in mono we hear everything in a very VERY advanced stereo.. The difference in arrival times between the two mics might be as little as a few ms.... in time but our brains can tell the difference.. The best way to illustrate this is to try your listening tests with good headphones.. The sound difference is night and day...

Chris
« Last Edit: November 17, 2008, 09:44:27 PM by Church-Audio »
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