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Author Topic: External power for Sonosax SX-M2  (Read 6748 times)

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Offline nedstruzz

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External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« on: January 22, 2009, 09:28:34 AM »
I searched the older threads but it seems nothing conclusive ever came of them.  Has there been any recent success in finding an external power solution for the SX-M2. 

Most of the older threads say 9V external power is not adequate and 14V may work better.  I'm wondering if the 10-14-88 Battery Geek battery is a decent option as I already own two. 

Any thoughts, recent developments??

Here's a link to the old thread on this subject.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,46279.0.html
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 09:33:45 AM by nedstruzz »
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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2009, 09:47:54 AM »
After doing hours and hours of research, I bought one of these and it will be arriving tomorrow. Main reason I went with this b/c it is just a little bigger than my 9V DVD battery, isn't too heavy 1.15lbs, and power meter in on the top side just like the DVD batt. Gonna run a time test with it this weekend sometime. Another plus is that is uses the two prong power tips which allows you to use the right angle adaptatips from ratshack.

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2056


I was told to stay away from feeding it anything below 14volts.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 10:00:57 AM by NOLAfishwater »

Offline nedstruzz

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2009, 09:53:50 AM »
Thanks Louie, did you conclude that 14V would not be sufficent? 
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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2009, 10:08:32 AM »
Thanks Louie, did you conclude that 14V would not be sufficent? 

No b/c I was told that the higher the voltage the better. Also, the battery is either 16 or 19v so even if you hit the voltage selector by accident, it is not like it would stop powering the unit. The other 16/19V battery packs I looked at were significantly heavier. I was going for a lightweight permanent solution. If weight  wasn't an issue, I would buy one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/8-10-Hrs-UNIVERSAL-External-Battery-for-Laptop-21200mah_W0QQitemZ110329718065QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item110329718065&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A570%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Chemistry: Li-polymer
Volts: 16V/4A, 19V/3.5A, 22V/3A, 24V/2.5A, USB 5V/1A 
Capacity: 21200mAh/78WH 
Dimension: 195x112x24mm
Net Weight: 1340g 


Here are the specs on the one I recommended:
Capacity:                   4000mAh   ( made by 8 pcs 2.0Ah 18650 Li-Ion inside
Battery Chemistry:      Lithium Ion(Li-ion)
Output:                16V and 19V DC switch selectable according to your battery.
Dimension:                155x100x23 mm
Weight:                      560g
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 10:10:16 AM by NOLAfishwater »

Offline nedstruzz

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2009, 10:13:45 AM »
Great, looks like you've done the leg work for me. 

I'd be interested to see how long that smaller battery will run the unit.  Do you have any guesses? 
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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 10:26:41 AM »
Great, looks like you've done the leg work for me. 

I'd be interested to see how long that smaller battery will run the unit.  Do you have any guesses? 

I am hoping for 10hours. Probably not going to tape more than that in a day. Also, If I go to a festie and have to carry my bag around, I am going to probably just use the Duracell Procell 9V's which provide about twice the power of a normal duracell. The normal duracells provide 8hours of continuous power. So I imagine running a pair of Procells should get you at least 12 hours.

Contact Justin http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=13726  He hooked me up with procell for like $1.20/each  shipped  :o  which is way cheaper than anything I could find online. I just ordered 16 of them.

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2009, 10:37:22 AM »
POWER AND DIMENSIONS of SX-M2
 
 
 
 Batteries
 :
 2 x 9V alkalines (UCAR 6LR61 or equivalent), or Ni-Cd rechargeable
(UCAR RC22 or equivalent).
 
External
 :
12V DC to 24V DC, minimum 30mA, maximum 80mA - I guess this means that the the max it will consume is 80mA at 24V, so if this is the case, and the battery I orderd is 4000mAh. then 4000mAh/80mA = 50hours.
 
Autonomy
 :
6 to 10 hours with alkaline batteries, 1,5 to 3 hours with NiCd
 
Indicator
 :
 low batteries at 14V. Autonomy: minimum 2 hours with alkaline batteries, and minimum 10 minutes with NiCd.
 
Dimensions
 :
 5,75" x 3,4" x 1,6" (146 x 85 x 40mm), 0,95lbs (435g) with batteries
 

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2009, 10:46:19 AM »
Here is some more information from here: http://www.sonosax.com/SXM2/UMSXM2EA4.html

The autonomy of your SONOSAX SX-M2 is proportional to the type of batteries/accumulators, and the kind of microphones used. The table below shows different figures (each 48V microphone uses 2mA) :

POWER                                                 ALKALINE                                                                       NICD
microphones                                 dynamic             48volts                                              dynamic                 48volts
warning(14v)                                 440mn               300mn                                                180mn                  120mn
reserve(12v)                                  200mn               140mn                                                15mn                   10mn
TOTAL                                          640mn               440mn =7.3hours                                195mn                  130mn


 

EXTERNAL POWER

The SONOSAX SX-M2 can also be powered from an external DC source, from 12 to 24 Volts, via the "DC IN" connector.(Battery powering is automatically disabled once an external DC source is used.) Once the external power supply is connected, the SX-M2 may then be operated as when powered by batteries or accumulators. If the "ON" led flashes normally (every 3 seconds), the external voltage is between 14 to 24 Volts. If it flashes every second, the external voltage is below 14 Volts.
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Offline nedstruzz

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 10:54:42 AM »
Awesome stuff, thanks Louie!!
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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 01:31:54 PM »
Question to Sonosax:
What is the draw of the SX-M2 and SX-M2/LS when providing 48V phantom power?  I am using them both with Schoeps.
 
I was reading the specs on the unit and this is what I concluded:
 
External
 :
12V DC to 24V DC, minimum 30mA, maximum 80mA - I guess this means that the the max it will consume is 80mA at 24V, so if this is the case, and the external battery I orderd is 4000mAh (19V or 16V). then 4000mAh/80mA = 50hours of run time on the external battery.
I am planning on running it at 19V but what would the run time be if I changed it to 16V? Would 16V affect the sound at all?

Their answer:

thank you for your message
Effectively the SX-M2 will draw max 80mA under 24V, however allow a short slightly higher current draw at power-up.
The average draw is aprox 50 to 60mA
You calculation is correct, but bear in mind that it is a purely theoretical value and may vary according the effective battery capacity.
The Schoeps microphone are usually drawing around 4mA under 48V => aprox 190mWatt => roughly said 400mW for a pair of Schoeps.
This represent aprox 25mA under 19V if we consider aprox 85% efficiency in the DC/DC converter that produce the 48V Phantom.
The efficiency in the SX-M2 is higher but I take this figure for safety.

If you change from 19Volts to 16 Volts the theoretical running time should be around 16% shorter => 42 hours instead of 50hours
Reducing the voltage does not affect the sonic performance at all, in fact it will sound excatly the same
but you will get a slightly lower headroom as the overall dynamic will be reduced by aprox 1,5 dB to 2 dB max
...somehow negligible as this is less than 2% of the max dynamic range of the SX-M2

I hope this answer your questions
Kind regards

Pierre Blanc
SONOSAX
Sales and Customer Support

Offline nedstruzz

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 04:54:43 PM »
Interesting!  So theoretically you could send the unit 24volts and run it for 65 hours or so. 
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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2009, 10:42:08 PM »
Running a pair of 9 volt dvd batteries in series in another route.   My cable is ugly but effective.
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Offline shaggy

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2009, 03:25:42 AM »
I am hoping for 10hours. Probably not going to tape more than that in a day. Also, If I go to a festie and have to carry my bag around, I am going to probably just use the Duracell Procell 9V's which provide about twice the power of a normal duracell. The normal duracells provide 8hours of continuous power. So I imagine running a pair of Procells should get you at least 12 hours.

Sorry, this is totally untrue.  Procells do not provide twice the power of regular alkaline coppertop Duracell 9Vs.  Procells are labelled and bulk packaged for professional/industrial use.  They are, to my working knowledge of them, similar in capacity and discharge to regular coppertop alkalines.  When I ran a SX-M2, they behaved like store bought alkalines, 4-5 hours max out of a pair before they were in the 7V range (maybe go a bit longer than that but I never took a chance).  The only thing about them that is different than the bulk packaging, is that they are perhaps a bit hotter out of the box than store bought coppertops.  The only batteries in that 9V format that truly last longer than alkalines are Ultralife Lithiums, a pair of those will last greater than 12 hours of continuous use and still kick out greater than 8V.

A word of warning, if you decide to run yours off a battery pack, do not power other devices in the chain with that battery pack.  There are ground loop issues with the Sax, it must have its own dedicated supply.  I have made sleds for the Sax using 10xAA-alkalines and 12xAA-NiMH.

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2009, 11:59:20 AM »
Got home from work last night to find a package on my porch.  :D Went to Ratshack to find a compatible right angle adapter tip and it takes an "M".  So I took my battery out for a test run last night and was pleasantly surprised by how it performed. After four hours of music, it still showed full power.  :o :o :o.

here is the link again. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2056

Offline andyjah

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Re: External power for Sonosax SX-M2
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2009, 02:19:19 PM »
Got home from work last night to find a package on my porch.  :D Went to Ratshack to find a compatible right angle adapter tip and it takes an "M".  So I took my battery out for a test run last night and was pleasantly surprised by how it performed. After four hours of music, it still showed full power.  :o :o :o.

here is the link again. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2056

And this was running the Schoeps into the Sax? Just wanted to make sure as I may buy one of these as well. Also did they say why you should run over 14V into the sax. I've run mine with a 12V SLA with no problems. I've never noticed any difference in sensitivity when doing this. I'd sent mine into TREW audio recently for a checkup and they did some tests with it across different voltages and said they did not notice any difference either. I'd mentioned what I run into it so I'd hope they ran a similar mic. Also if you need service on your Sax I do recommend them. Very quick service, good communication, and I don't think it was in there possession for more than a day or two. $100 an hour for bench work. My DC port had gotten flaky so I mailed it to them and had it completely checked through while it was there.

 

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