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Author Topic: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp  (Read 3552 times)

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Offline tgakidis

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Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« on: February 20, 2009, 09:02:03 PM »
The Amorphous Band
2009-2-18
Muddy River Smokehouse
Portsmouth, NH

These comps were done with two sets of AKG 461's set to the same configuration and position.
The Microphones were set dead center 18 feet from the stage about 7 feet high.
The files were interlaced switching every 30 seconds throughout the songs.

Thanks to Jason Sobel for hosting my files!

http://www.turtleside.com/misc/Aerco-V3-comp/v3.vs.aerco.set1.flac
Song: Use me
0:00-0:30 Source 1: AKG c460b/ck61(DIN,18'FS) > V3 Digi > R-4 (24/48)
0:30-1:00 Source 2: AKG c460b/ck61(DIN,18'FS) > Aerco MP-2 analog > R09HR (24/48)
switching every 30 seconds

http://www.turtleside.com/misc/Aerco-V3-comp/aerco.vs.v3.set2.flac
Song: Stand As One
0:00-0:30 Source 1: AKG c460b/ck61(DIN,18'FS) > Aerco MP-2 analog > R-4 T-Mod (24/48)
0:30-1:00 Source 2: AKG c460b/ck61(DIN,18'FS) > V3 analog > R-4 T-mod (24/48)
switching every 30 seconds
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken RFT AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414-xls / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1,ck22,ck3,ck8,Blue B6) / nBob AKG Actives>PFA/ nBob AKG Actives>nBox Platinum / Naiant AKG Actives>PFA / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 / Lunatec V3
Recs: Sound Devices MixPre-10T / Sound Devices MixPre-6 / Sound Devices MixPre-3 / Zoom F8 / Sony PCM-M10 / Roland R-07

My Recordings: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%28Gakidis%29&sort=-date

Offline Myco

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2009, 09:14:05 PM »
Very interesting! I thought the Aerco actually sounded a little tighter, I would have thought it would be the opposite.
Microtech Gefell M200: M20/M21/M27 caps> Bumblebee MiAGi-II/Darktrain silver cable's/"Chuck" Belden cables> Aerco MP-2 or Busman modded DR-680 pre-amps> Darktrain cables & interconnects> Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
AT853's(card's/hyper's)>AT8533x>Aerco MP-2>Sony M10

Offline tgakidis

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2009, 09:35:13 PM »
I actually think the v3 digi has more warmth then the analog, granted the analog is going into the t-mod.
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken RFT AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414-xls / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1,ck22,ck3,ck8,Blue B6) / nBob AKG Actives>PFA/ nBob AKG Actives>nBox Platinum / Naiant AKG Actives>PFA / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 / Lunatec V3
Recs: Sound Devices MixPre-10T / Sound Devices MixPre-6 / Sound Devices MixPre-3 / Zoom F8 / Sony PCM-M10 / Roland R-07

My Recordings: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%28Gakidis%29&sort=-date

stevetoney

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2009, 10:13:07 PM »
Nice Ted.  Thanks for the comp.  I think the main conclusion I'm reaching is that the Aerco is a hella sounding preamp is such a small little package.  Very little difference in flavour between the the Aerco and V3. 

Because of the difference in recording devices, do you really think we can reach any legitimate conclusions between the digital and analog V3 samples?

Offline Myco

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2009, 10:41:29 PM »
I actually think the v3 digi has more warmth then the analog, granted the analog is going into the t-mod.

They actually sounded pretty similar to me, but the warmth was a little cleaner and more defined with the Aerco than the V3, IMHO. I like em both, and run em both myself.  ;)
It all depends on what appeals to your ear really. The main diff between you and I is that you're running AKG's and I'm running Gefell's.
Microtech Gefell M200: M20/M21/M27 caps> Bumblebee MiAGi-II/Darktrain silver cable's/"Chuck" Belden cables> Aerco MP-2 or Busman modded DR-680 pre-amps> Darktrain cables & interconnects> Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
AT853's(card's/hyper's)>AT8533x>Aerco MP-2>Sony M10

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2009, 10:51:39 PM »
Because of the difference in recording devices, do you really think we can reach any legitimate conclusions between the digital and analog V3 samples?

There is a certain contingent amongst us who have spoken most unkindly of the V3 A/D (I am NOT one of them).  At one point there was a comp claiming the (original) R09 A/D sounded better than the V3 A/D.  I heard the comp, and both sounded good.  Which was "better" is a matter of opinion (as in, which is better ice cream, chocolate or vanilla?).

Question: If I wear headphones and listen to the V3 analog versus Aerco I hear "stuff" which make the V3 sound wider.  Did you notice that?  What exactly is that?  Is it low notes which my headphones are straining to reproduce and which the aerco has rolled off?  I find that interesting that it is there, although kind of distracting to listen to.  Maybe on a big stereo it is called "huge soundstage" but in my headphones it's kind of an unpleasant distraction.
 
Mics: Schoeps MK4 & CMC5's / Gefell M200's & M210's / ADK-TL / DPA4061's
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Offline rich

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 08:43:54 AM »
Song: Use me

source 1 >  sounds like a V3; warm but with just a hint of low end smearrr; well rounded lows (again, just a pinch of smearrr) with airy mids and highs

source 2 >  same as above but minus the low end smearrr; very well defined attack and decay; maybe not as airy mids and highs, but very crisp and pronounced; more musical in my opinion

i prefer source 2



rich
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Offline rich

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 08:55:39 AM »
Song: Stand As One

source 1 >  again, consistent audio profile of the aerco..i dont like this as much as the first tune sample..just not quite as musical.  but still very nice

source 2 >  this is my favorite source.  maybe i am just not a huge fan of the V3 digi out.  but i hear the same low end smearrr from when i ran 210's > V3.  the difference between the V3 analog / V2 and the aerco is recognizable but subtle.  i love the aerco but have to say this is my favorite source.


rich
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Offline prof_peabody

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 09:08:10 AM »
I find the V3 digi out to be a bit disappointing.  My experiences with 402X > ACM V3 were even more disappointing. I don't think the ACM V3 is suited to these mics - sounds like crap.

Online edtyre

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2009, 09:59:30 AM »
It's all in what your ears prefer. I really dig the 4023 >ACM V3 sound, but not every band,
every room, every time. I think this combo is more suited for real loud stuff.

I ran both of these last night for Kathleen Edwards

4023 > ACM V3 > CM R44 digi in
MK-41 > KC5 > CMC6 > Aerco > CM R44 analog in

The schoeps recording smokes the dpa set this time
and its quieter stuff.

The aerco is underated for open taping!
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline prof_peabody

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2009, 10:05:52 AM »
It's all in what your ears prefer. I really dig the 4023 >ACM V3 sound, but not every band,
every room, every time. I think this combo is more suited for real loud stuff.

I ran both of these last night for Kathleen Edwards

4023 > ACM V3 > CM R44 digi in
MK-41 > KC5 > CMC6 > Aerco > CM R44 analog in

The schoeps recording smokes the dpa set this time
and its quieter stuff.

The aerco is underated for open taping!

But you're also running schoeps - with muddy low end...

Offline rich

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2009, 12:02:42 PM »
so very very true mr tyre
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2009, 01:37:20 PM »
i liked the aerco in both
#2 was much harder to hear a difference though
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
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Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2009, 06:46:15 PM »
Listening with MDR-V6's, the bass seems more extended and warmer in source one. To me, source two seems to have better separation though. That said, I like source one better.

They really do sound quite different to me.

Offline tgakidis

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2009, 08:57:42 PM »
Listening with MDR-V6's, the bass seems more extended and warmer in source one. To me, source two seems to have better separation though. That said, I like source one better.

They really do sound quite different to me.

Love the DRI logo....
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken RFT AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414-xls / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1,ck22,ck3,ck8,Blue B6) / nBob AKG Actives>PFA/ nBob AKG Actives>nBox Platinum / Naiant AKG Actives>PFA / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 / Lunatec V3
Recs: Sound Devices MixPre-10T / Sound Devices MixPre-6 / Sound Devices MixPre-3 / Zoom F8 / Sony PCM-M10 / Roland R-07

My Recordings: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%28Gakidis%29&sort=-date

Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2009, 09:47:04 PM »
Thanks, and thanks for the comp. I'm an idiot and didn't realize the the first and second were different. My above comments were for the first. The second comp sounds almost identical to me with maybe a slight bit more separation in the second source.

stevetoney

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2009, 10:03:48 PM »
So, let's say this comp goes up as a blind test.  Are all you guys that are saying that you hear clear differences between these two preamp tests such that you'd immediately know that the source switches between preamps every 30 seconds?

I mean, I guess I don't have that great a listening system sitting here on my computer (external Extigy soundcard into a pair of $120 Sony cans), because I just don't hear it except for the fact that there's a tiny level change in the second source every 30 seconds. 

However, I can't get that much volume out of my computer desktop system.  When you guys listen to these comps, are you listening at really high volume?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 10:06:20 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline rich

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2009, 10:09:40 PM »
i would have to say NO on the first sample tune.  in fact, i had no idea what was going on until minute two and reviewing the comparison verbiage.  second sample tune is deffinitely more noticeable to my ears.

rich
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Offline L Ron Hoover

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2009, 10:15:58 PM »
i would have to say NO on the first sample tune.  in fact, i had no idea what was going on until minute two and reviewing the comparison verbiage.  second sample tune is deffinitely more noticeable to my ears.

rich


Wow. I would have to say exactly the opposite. Listening with the headphones, I could clearly hear the switch in the first sample. In the second, if it was not established that the sources changed at thirty second intervals I wouldn't have known the difference.

Offline willndmb

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2009, 10:37:02 PM »
i would have to say NO on the first sample tune.  in fact, i had no idea what was going on until minute two and reviewing the comparison verbiage.  second sample tune is deffinitely more noticeable to my ears.

rich


Wow. I would have to say exactly the opposite. Listening with the headphones, I could clearly hear the switch in the first sample. In the second, if it was not established that the sources changed at thirty second intervals I wouldn't have known the difference.
same here
the first i could clearly hear a difference - i wouldn't have known which was whioch blind however
track 2 i could hear slight differences but i had to realllllly listen
if i didn't know it switched sources i prob wouldn't have ever noticed
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
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Offline tgakidis

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Re: Real Time V3 vs. Aerco Comp
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2009, 12:27:26 AM »
I think the main reason you can tell the change in the first sample is that they are two seperate recorders with different time clocks.  I tried to stretch/line them up, but you never can get them exactly perfect (I use sony vegas pro).  The second sample is using the R-4 so they line up perfectly.  Sometimes on both samples, mostly the first, during the change you can hear a slight "pop/click".  Smokin' Joe showed me this trick and I feel it is the best way to listen and truly hear a comp.

http://www.turtleside.com/misc/Aerco-V3-comp/Aerco.vs.V3digi.Primeordia.flac

http://www.turtleside.com/misc/Aerco-V3-comp/Aerco.vs.V3analog.Hottentot.flac

This time it switches every 15 seconds and you guess which is which.

GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken RFT AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414-xls / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1,ck22,ck3,ck8,Blue B6) / nBob AKG Actives>PFA/ nBob AKG Actives>nBox Platinum / Naiant AKG Actives>PFA / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 / Lunatec V3
Recs: Sound Devices MixPre-10T / Sound Devices MixPre-6 / Sound Devices MixPre-3 / Zoom F8 / Sony PCM-M10 / Roland R-07

My Recordings: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%28Gakidis%29&sort=-date

 

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